Who Should Lead Us Out of Credit Crisis?


How do we get a coordinated global response to this global credit crisis? Who should lead?

Posted by Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius on October 14, 2008 5:57 PM

Readers’ Responses to Our Question (43)

moonpenn Author Profile Page :

Maybe we can send all the American cows to China and save the time and money of milking them ourselves. Democracy is still useful, just so you have capital to pay for the milk. The NFL guys are getting their piece of the pie and there's tons of money to be made. It's chaos out there and people are going to want quality. The majority of people can't identify quality. They vote though. Great for them and the bailer goes to the bottom. Our economy is trashed here. We stopped making it here. We have lots of junk and little in the way of productive jobs. Government has kept growing and industry dying. We're getting slot machines to rebuild the economy with. We have new ballparks and BS. The morgue is expanding to meet future demand since the politicians and socialists have spent 30 years chasing away industry. $100K a year mayors and poverty all around. They've been fixing it for years and every year it goes downhill. We have empty industrial sites all over the place. It's a rusty bloody belt of corruption and lunacy. They're now ripping the rocks out of the hills, so we are expecting more hillslides. Building on the abundant flat deserted mill sites makes too much sense. They wrecked industry and are wrecking the rest of the landscape to keep crews busy. Then they all want your vote and big benefits for wrecking your families and pensions.
I expect the suicide rate will go up along with taxes. At least the milk is still safe for the babies, so it could be worse.

http://futurechaos.wordpress.com/

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page :

As a world stakeholder, the US is now isolated like never before. Nonetheless, being used by now to act unilaterally, the US can and must also act responsibly, and do all that needs be done to solve this exclusively US generated crisis.

A coordinated global response toward a new world order (financial, economic and political) needs now come from Europe and from Asia, under Chinese leadership.

Much can be learned, today, by listening very carefully to Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao's remarks, at the close of the latest Asia-Europe Summit hosted by Beijing (cctv.com -- Video: Press Conference of ASEM-7). *

It should be noticed, incidentally, how warmly Premier Jiabao was praised for the quality of his leadership, at the Beijing Conference.

For context, much can also be learned, this very day, from "Conversations with History" with guest Kishore Mahbubani, at UC Berkeley. **

As world leader, China is now positioned in an unprecedented way in at least the last 200 years.

Just watch and listen. Beyond Fuyukama's "The End of History"... this is history in the making.


*

http://v.cctv.com/html/NewsHour/2008/10/NewsHour_300_20081025_4.shtml


**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIaVB-k7QlY

moonpenn Author Profile Page :

There's nothing you can do about it, coordinated or not, the selling off is going to keep going. You see a $5 billion company lose $2 billion in a couple of months. Now it's a $3 billion company and more investors bail because they see the trend. Data always follows actual events, so you can't just throw more computing power at it in order to improve business. You can't throw money at it and pay the person making $50-60K a month $100-120K a month and expect productivity and profits to double. It's looking like double or nothing and double trouble ahead. In a way the slow down is good. I've gone from fast food to slow food. I have less time for sleep, so it keeps you on your toes.

"You can't get the CEO of a $5 billion company excited about a $100,000 market like ceramic scissor blades or razor blades. We shoot right from start for the ceramic auto engine. We don't want to go through the learning process in smaller markets." Dr. Lee Rivers, Allied Signal

How One Man Beat the Depression
When depression was at its depth in 1932, the late Lew Reese, who had worked at the potter’s trade in West Virginia, came to Scio on a hunting trip. He found the town on the verge of ruin; employment there had dropped to its lowest ebb. An old pottery, which had failed five years earlier, was for sale for taxes. Seeing a chance to try out ideas of his own in white ware manufacture, Mr. Reese borrowed $8,000 on his insurance and took over the abandoned pottery.

GOT CLAY?

We're going from silicon to tuned microlasers. An interesting transition which could shake things up. It's new. The idea of replacing iron and steel with ceramics is not new. One thing that makes publishing such a poweful force is that you can't eliminate paper and the digital technology just expands the business. The Wall St. mess will get bigger and the smart CEO will look at taking the company private. Do a $100,000 project. Today they spend that kind of money on lobbying and the returns from that have proven disasterous. Even publishing can turn ugly.

"Journalistic integrity is preparing to take another knock with the announcement that Korean movie producer Mirovision is planning to adapt 1980s comic Tomorrow News into a movie. With a plot that includes strange radio transmissions and advance warning of upcoming disasters, it's like Heroes meets White Noise - or perhaps just a big-budget downbeat version of mid-90s TV show Early Edition." http://io9.com/5059519/early-edition-gets-disasterous-makeover-in-tomorrow-news
"Of course, if you're the type who'd rather watch movies without subtitles, don't worry; if the movie is a success, you can expect an inferior Hollywood remake within a couple of years. Probably starring some of the cast of Gossip Girl or something."

Hollywood could end up like Wall Street and some of our newspaper friends could end up out of business in the near future. Don't worry, the good stuff is lasting stuff. Junk gets junked. Build your own talking light beam.

"Where's all this great stuff coming from? It's not really coming out of IBM. It's coming out of little two and three man companies, because they're finding out that forty guys can't do something that three people can do. It's just the law of human nature." Roger Smith

Business isn't democratic. You have forty fools and I have three wise men. You want to take over and all you will have in the end is a giant welfare state and a majority of people are poor. The scum is rising and that's why elections are so expensive. The business losses will be more expensive for many of you. Barack can bail you out, even though the government is broke and going broker by the day. Business is war.

TomW2 Author Profile Page :

Blund

From John Fund, Wall Street Journal, this morning:

"The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now -- or Acorn -- the troubled left-wing activist group, has new headaches. Last week Michael Slater, head of its Project Vote, admitted that some 400,000 of its claimed 1.3 million newly registered voters were rejected by election officials as either duplicates or fraudulent -- i.e. it doesn't sound as if Acorn's vaunted "quality control" efforts were all that effective."

Oh well, there will be 399,990 less votes for Obama on election day......

Neverbeendead Author Profile Page :

There is only one solution and the best leader is still America.
Before writing the solution, I will write the reason why America is the best choice to lead the world with the only solution.
America cannot be attacked within its own borders by another country or countries with full military capacity because it is also the leading force with nuclear weapons on this planet.
If America should decide to launch a new system within its own borders, other countries can only be against in words but never with actions or not at all.

That makes America the ideal candidate to launch the system without taxes whilst setting the perfect example to the rest of the world.
With this system the government creates a public account in the biggest bank of America.
On that account the government can put money electronically that officially comes from out of nowhere ( like with the very first touchable money that was made ).
That way the government no longer needs money that comes from taxes and has always enough for the next sectors:
-The people who work for the government who no longer have jobtitles secured over a period of time.
-The public sectors like building and maintenance of highways.
-The new solutions for global warming because the private sector claims not to have enough money for a huge operation like that. When the private sector gets the money it needs from that public account.
-The social security system. Clients get the money they need for there every need while the social security system gets enough money to create a sort of police agency that checks clients deeply to exclude those looking to get a free ride.
-The unemployment system: People who are temporarily without a job never need to worry about money when their salary continues in the meantime.

This public account can be checked by anyone on the internet so that the government gets its own fair share of control. Every transaction can be seen into detail by those who want to check it but only the government can make the necessary transactions with that public account.

TomW2 Author Profile Page :

blund (BobL)

I should have realized much sooner this was you. Actually when you stepped in to defend the fair and balanced SharonJenson, that should have been my first clue.

Since I’ve posted numerous times about the Dems in Congress (such as voting for National Surveillance while politicizing the issue) and how worthless this group has been since their election in 2006, I’m surprised that you are defending them. They have reached historic low ratings for a reason, Bob. Just a reminder for you.

From the New York Times, August 5, 2007 (“House Passes Changes in Eavesdropping Program“):

“…Some Democrats complained they were being bullied into hasty action on the intelligence bill by the administration and Congressional Republicans…”

Sound familiar? That’s why they have such low ratings. They are gutless (and, of course, they haven‘t gotten anything done).

On Ayers:

What a model citizen. In 2001, Ayers was photographed stomping on the American flag. He clearly still resents and hates America. He unapologetically said that he wishes he could have done more in the days when he was acting as a domestic bomber. And why not? Mr. Ayers got off on a technicality (a bit of a spin on your part?) so he never paid any price for the crimes that he committed.

The New York Times - after two years of campaigning by Obama (or is that for Obama) - finally addressed the issue of William Ayers and his relation to Barack Obama. The Times concluded after interviewing witnesses that Ayers and Obama only crossed paths “sporadically” and that Ayers had little influence on Obama.

The NYT article is unconvincing, however. Obama consistently immersed himself in radical left-wing politics in Chicago. He formed a “partnership” with the domestic terrorist, William Ayers (Stanley Kurtz, Wall Street Journal, September 23, 2008) and served on the board of the CAC (Chicago Annenberg Challenge) for six years. The CAC distributed 100 million dollars “into the hands of community organizers and radical education activists.” (like Acorn) according to Kurtz. The CAC was the “brainchild” of Ayers. Ayers handled educational policy (his specialty) and Obama handled fiscal matters. Kurtz viewed documents in the CAC archives to reach his conclusion, namely, that the Obama-Ayers relationship was anything but sporadic contact. Read his article (“Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools“).

Your Argument, Bob.

“Years ago I once had a house guest for a weekend who had been a colonel in the SS and was a card carrying member of the Nazi party in WWII. Does that action make me a Nazi sympathizer? Of course not. If anything I'm fairly pink politically [no kidding?].”

The problem with your argument is that if your friend is STILL a Nazi, then there should be questions about your association with your friend - especially if you are running for office (as there would be if McCain was hanging around with a Nazi or an abortion clinic bomber). In other words, you are politically on the same page with Ayers (blame America first), but you need to look at this from a conservative point of view.

Mrs. McCain

When you bring up McCain‘s first wife, that DOES say something about McCain’s character despite just having returned from five years in a POW camp, but it doesn’t say anything about McCain POLITICALLY. The statement by Michelle Obama, for example, “for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country” or “America is a downright mean country” tells me something about her political persuasion - much like Ayers, Wright, Pfleger etc. “Palling around” with a radical anti American, Marxist, terrorist says a lot, if you consider the whole package of past political associations and his voting record. If his association with Ayers - politically - is blown out of proportion, what in Obama’s past would tell me otherwise? Maybe you can comfort me.

Reverend Wright:

Obama resigned from the church under pressure. Is there much more that needs to be said? Just because there are 100 chapters of the KKK, that doesn’t justify the one that you hold a membership. For twenty years, Obama attended a racist and racially inflammatory anti American church. I don’t care how many other BLT churches there are in our inner cities. Its irrelevant.

Republican Attack Machine

You always refer to the Republican attack machine. You sound just like the nutty SharonJenson post. The parties - and their tactics - are no different. Why was Lott forced to resign?. How about McCain and Palin tactics being compared to George Wallace? They both will continue to slime each other, and, as far as I can tell, you are no different. McCain - pond scum? Palin - right wing nut?

But here’s the point that Republicans are making - love it or leave it. We know nothing about this guy named Obama. Is he a Marxist, philisophically? He has accomplished nothing in what Charles Blow of the New York Times calls a “razor thin resume”. You say that McCain votes with Bush 90% of the time, but how many times has Obama challenged his own party? Has he even ever crossed party lines to work with the Republicans? If not, how can he be the great unifier (he claims to be) after the election? He has the most liberal voting record in the Senate (Biden is number three). He talks a good story, and is very intelligent, but so did Jimmy Carter. If Palin is a right wing nut to you, why wouldn’t an extreme liberal scare the hell out of me? The “spread the wealth” statement by Obama to Joe the Plumber is a telling statement - a political Freudian slip.

As I pointed out in my first post, points 1-5, he has shown himself to be a typical politician, subject to the same cronyism, bad decisions and questionable associations as many other politicians, but there has been a major attempt by the media to cover his past record - for good reason in my opinion. How about the decision by Obama to have former advisors Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson as advisors to his campaign? In four short years, he received the second most campaign contributions from Fannie Mae covering the last twenty years? Speak about cronyism. Where is the media on that one?

In my humble opinion, the liberal media has thrown aside all journalistic integrity, for political and historical reasons, to elect Obama President. A press that selectively filters information to the American population - to protect a preferred candidate or discredit another - is participating in propaganda befitting regimes such as China and North Korea.

I agree with your assessment on electoral votes - unless something damning comes out in the next two weeks. October surprise?

PS. Considering Foley’s replacement, that might not have been the best example by you, but the media - once again - has shoved this under the rug, despite huge coverage for Foley. Think about this example. Why?

AnjuChandel Author Profile Page :

Certainly not the so-called financial or Wall Street wizards! Or even all those politicians - head of states - whose "fanciful" ideas led to the current turmoil.

India is still largely unaffected by the current financial downturn though it too has witnessed some panic selling of stocks and erosion of 'virtual' wealth of many.

India's prime minister Manmohan Singh is an eminent economist and the chief architect of the ascendancy of India's economic power. He should be made the chief of the core group to overlook the rescue and bailout packages. Indian bankers should also be roped in as they have judiciously regulated the Indian financial systems and almost insulated the markets from the meltdown.

And, yeah, Barack Obama, who is highly sensible and intelligent as a leader and a politician.

Nicolas Sarkozy and Gordon Brown too have shown "belated" wisdom. They should be in.

Chinese leaders and financial experts should also be included into the core group.

But most importantly, life-style gurus should be involved to preach to all those people affected the most due to "living beyond their means" - to be told Not to repeat their "cardinal sin" ever again!

yeolds Author Profile Page :

the first issue which is a requisite for renal of the rules of finance wold wide is an acceptance of the USA Government and Western Media that there is no solution while constantly berating Russia, Islamist goverments' arc from Morocco to Indonesia, China, and Old Europe.
The source of the friasco is the Anglo-Saxon derived sovereign states dismal economic oversight, where the main players the UK and the USA are deeply indebt to other nations.

The new rules have be be established, where any corporation or private entity which deals in credit has to be under similar regulations for capital requirements. While it is impossible to exclude fractional lending, the ratio between capital and credit creation must be strong enough that the world does not see any more of these extrem buuble bursts.

It is similarly required that all the major creditors, sovereign funds be in the discussion, for without their capital it is not possible to revive the world's fiancial globalised credit/banking system.

Finally it is required that the USA give up on her arrogance and desire to be the big boss, for without "friendly cooperation" of the creditor nations [OPEC, Russia, China, Japan, etc the system can n ot be revived. The area of Bretton Woods I and II is over, where the USA could dicatate, as the almost sole possessor of wealth of any major size, for we live in a multipolar world where the USA, her Govbernments, her companies and her citizens are the greatest debtors the world has seen.

The only problem which might arise is that K-street would negate any possible solution to the renewal of INTERNATIONAL FINANCE REGULATION, for it si certain that the USa will not come out as it did with the Washington Consessus.

blund Author Profile Page :

TomW2,

I feel bad for you if you can't understand the difference between individual people and institutions. Congress as a body (the institution) has a low approval rating. The people making up congress don't. The Presidency (the institution) has a high rating. The person occupying the office has a very low rating. It is an inverse relationship. We like our congressman, but we don't like our congress. We like our presidency, but we don't like our president. This isn't rocket science. The use of the analogy would make sense and be logically correct if we could say congress had high marks, but the individuals making up congress tended to have low marks. That would equate to the current presidential situation and be of value.

The Ayers issue is ludicrous. Ayers and Obama were never friends. Ayers did donate the whopping sum of $200 to one of Obama's campaigns and did hold a coffee fund raiser for Obama. The association that brought them together was Obama sat on a board of a educational endowment project in Chicago that Ayers was part of. This self described radical (Ayers) not only was never convicted of anything he went on to be given Chicago's man of the year award in the late 90's. He's currently a professor in Chicago and teaches and writes about early child education. He has denied ever being a terrorist, but has admitted to being opposed to the Vietnam War and being involved with individuals who felt violence against selective targets of the US government (like the small bomb they placed in the Pentagon) was justified. I'm not defending Ayers' actions with Weathermen, but that was 40 years ago and he has had a distinguished career since resurfacing around 1980. You can try to make out this "washed up terrorist" a current villian all you want and then try to tie him to Obama all you want, but the facts just don't bear our your claims.

Let's move on to Reverend Wright. No doubt Rev. Wright is a Liberation Theology Disciple. How shocking is that? A black minister in an inner city church practicing liberation theology. Newsflash: there might not be a whole lot of churches like this in Montana, but they are all over our larger inner cities in this country. Again this type of attack goes back to character assassination. Obama is a bad man who can't be trusted because he knows Bill Ayers and attended church where we don't like what the minister was saying. Let's face it so far the republicansNo have labeled Obama a Muslim (which he is not), a terrorist (which he is not), a socialist (which he is not) all for the purpose of trying to scare people from voting for him. 4 years ago Bush (the closest thing to a draft dodger without actually dodging it) went after a decorated Vietnam Veteran and slimed him. No one except the repub faithful are buying this crap any longer. I know this must be frustrating, but the repub's have cried wolf too often to believe when it comes to character. I guess since Obama's wife didn't have a crippling accident that left her disfigured he had no reason to start an affair and then a year later separate and divorce so he could marry the woman he was having an affair with. Is that the type of character you speak? Maybe it's the bathroom habits of Larry Craig that give credence to republican moral superiority. Hmmm...we could give all Democratic congressman pagers so they could send sexually explicit messages to underage pages like Foley did. Nah, why don't we all just emulate Ted Stevens. The first sitting Senator standing trial in how many years? The same man who attempted to "throw his wife" under the bus at his trial. Now there's character if we've ever witnessed it. I can keep going back to Livingston and Newt if you want, but I think you get it. Character attacks by republicans who have lost their standing are laughable today. Hence, attacking Obama on Ayers and Wright are falling on deaf ears. People just sit back and say, "Yawn, another republican hypocrite attacking a democrat again."

Face it. If this election was about character McCain stood zero chance. If this election was about issues McCain stood zero chance. Bush unwittingly made sure there was zero chance a republican running against Snoopy could win. Even McCain is now running around trying to distance himself from Bush and telling everyone how bad Bush has been. Of course he's not telling them he voted 90% of the time for Bush's policies. There was a time when he was proud of that fact, but you'd never know it listening to him today.

Obama wins with 370 electoral votes (give or take 10). House picks up 25/35 democratic seats. The Senate picks up 9 or 10. McCain retires. Palin goes back to Alaska and is forced to resign over the firing of the Public Safety director, but keeps the 150K worth of clothes she needed for a 75 day campaign.

Daho Author Profile Page :

The crisis was mainly generated by greed and lack of moral values. This dramatic situation being global, any possible solution must be globally approved. Consequently, the richest and more advanced countries shoud meet and try to find an answer to the crisis by honestly determining the basic flaws which created it. This answer may be approved only because of the fear of a financial and economical catastrophy. Short of that, we shall see that only shortsighted decisions will be taken to solve an immediate problem.
In conclusion, only if the people controlling the destinies of their respective countries policies and destinies decide that decisions benefiting FIRST the short and LONG TERM interests of their population, could we then hope to perceive the possible end of the tunnel.

daniel12 Author Profile Page :

How do we get a coordinated global response to this global credit crisis? Who should lead?

I have no idea how to get a global response to the credit crisis, but I think I see the response that is manifesting. It seems there are calls to increasingly regulate the free market by the state, but this regulation does not mean socialism. On the contrary, the regulation seems an increased power of the state in the economy to the point of authoritarianism.

So over the world as a whole we will have regulated economies which are anti-socialistic and geared more and more toward preventing inflation, bubbles which are types of inflation, etc. This results in a world of outposts of power which much prefer recessions to inflation, bubbles, etc. getting out of hand. As for the question of who should lead on this problem, it seems quite grotesque when even the freest of the free markets have their governments bailing out the economy without this meaning socialism.

Essentially workers everywhere will find their jobs at stake, because the primary task in the eyes of those who hold power is to keep a system going which can recess or inflate at will--and at the slightest sign of inflation or a bubble the economy will recess and throw off the less empowered in the economy. Expect a battle though between those who want regulation to mean socialism and those who want it to mean an increased power of the wealthy, the elite, etc.

The free market might have been cruel, but government intrusion without this meaning socialism...how cruel is that? Call it a type of authoritarianism, one geared to watch out for inflation, bubbles, socialism--the federal reserve wedded to law enforcement and the military and always backed by presidential power. In a sense call it the free market becoming more coordinated and intelligent, stealing from socialism ideas of regulation, but watchful of socialism most of all.

From the perspective of the worker we have a free market he enters but this free market is glutted by those already holding power, and either the worker conforms or he is a threat to be countered by having him experience a recession. No easy credit friend, and perhaps from now on growth itself will be highly directed, the economy inflating then recessing in cycles of adding the few lucky ones to the elite and then throwing off the less fortunate.

That seems the global response and it seems it is being led by every power capable of it. It seems every state will lay off workers within and then outsource to each other in a type of mutual aid authoritarianism. The free market and authoritarianism in a strange mix. As always, it pays to be in power. As always it does not pay to be out of power.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

mohammad_allam - First, most American's are honest and decent people. Even on Wall Street and the corporate world, there are good and decent men and women. Those people atually work for their money and for the betterment of this country and, indirectly, the rest of the world. Political persuation has absolutely nothing to do with it, either. Barak Obama looks to be a pretty good President and he is joined by decent people and genuine patriots like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Maria Cantwell, and Peter DeFazio. Look at Chuck Hagel, Arnold Schwarznagger, General Schwartzkauf, Colin Powell or, before them, Ronald Reagan, to see decent conservatives. Most of the people in this country aren't out on a spending binge, aren't out to conquer the world; they are ordinary people, looking to provide for their families and do what they think is right and proper.

There are swine, lots of them, criminals of the very worst sort and they have managed to worm their way into positions of power and influence to such an extent that it may be impossible for us to root them out and destroy them on our own. That is why a lot of us are calling for international investigation and courts and trials. These criminals were our problem for the past 8 years. Many of us wrote to foreign newspapers, the EU, everywhere we could think of, warning the world about these men and women, but we were ignored. Now, the greed, lack of morality, mindless persuit of money, pretend patriotism, has spread like a cancer and it is up to the world to kill that cancer without killoing the patient. So don't blame my country, it was a great country, it can be a great country again, help us to expunge the Neocon's, the Wall Street and corporate crooks.

mohammad_allam Author Profile Page :

The ongoing global financial crisis started from American reckless spending needs carefull study by the financial experts and the economists.In my opinion the coordinated global responce need the following steps
1.Fisrt study the Stock market of all the leading countries of the world which have impact directly and indirectly.Then make plan how to stop the stock gambler with unlimited finance with nexus of the leading banks of the world or financial institution.
2 There is need of time to redefine the credit culture of American system of borrowing on future income.The policy should be based on more productive based not the luxerious based of life.
3 The need of time to look back on American adverturism.America jumped in Iraq and Afghanistan to rejunivate the declining economy with Iraq oil and construction .The war industry selling to midddle East.All these expectation did not meet nd as a result American could not give lease of life but they just delay the exposure of financial crisis.
4 The time of need is also to look after the big stock player of America and their asset and backing.How they playing in stock market and where the money used to come and goes.The case of Lehman brother is more deadliest to America then attack of terrorist.This case also show there is some thing wrong in American system of politics and Business.
5 the Time is also to look another economies and invite them in world financial committee.Keep in mind in present word the main players are not only big economies but also leading producer of Oil ,market and rising economies.

6.There is need of time to look into world politics and American share the decision making with other world too.The economic division of world both in term of currency and market is need of time.America has to stop the attaching the nations.What the American getting from Iraq and Afghanistan?How much the economic return is for the Anerican people.Who benefitting the American billion dollar of spending?.Who is responsible for this mess?
7 American role in the world financial institution and world trading organisations need review.American have to change the mentality of domination to cooperation on sharing.American has to believ in the work of other and has to come from the selected group of friendship.
8 American has also to look into role of europe in this financial crisis.America grabed the power of world domination from europe.As now Europe is more stable .Is its need back its own power?The rising euro against dollar has any design in it.?

As far as leading is concernd America has to lead as it is centre of world economic policy making,leader of world in political matter and sole owner of wolrd cuurency-Dollar.The appraoch should be sharing not dictating.
I hope that American leadership will come against the whirlpool as they cam after great Depression of 1930.

Zolko Author Profile Page :

@ mibrooks27 : OK, I agree. So why doesn't re-sourcing happen ?

I guess that's because that would lead to less international commerce, more local one, so less possibilities to "insure" and "swap" exotic "assets" and gamble on far-away people's lives. Those that made the mess live from the mess they are creating. Normally, they make only a small mess, so their parasitic activities go unnoticed, and they can argue how global finance puts oil in the economy. But this time, they might have done one mess too big to chew.

TomW2 Author Profile Page :

blund

"Bush had Putin at his compound in Maine and looked into his "soul". Does that make Bush are Russian sympathizer? Of course not."

Are you joking? That's a comparison? Bush was just flat out wrong, but regardless, that’s a bad analogy. Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist. Ayers was photographed in 2001 stomping on an American flag. He is still anti American. That he has anything to do with our education system sickens me. I assume your Nazi friend is not a Nazi anymore. Try hanging around with a modern Nazi and run for election. Not many people would vote for you - rightly.

"The reason the repub attempt at tying Obama to ACORN and Ayers outside of the repub base isn't working is because the association is so loose it has no merit."

Did you not read my post? The association with Acorn (and Ayers) is not as loose as you want to believe. Obama served on the boards of two charitable foundations - the Woods Fund and the Joyce Foundation, and directed millions of dollars to liberal organizations including ACORN. According to Stanley Kurtz ("Inside Obama's Acorn"), "It would be illegal for Obama to sit on a foundation board and direct money to an organization that openly served as his key get-out-the-vote volunteers on Election Day." Obama’s presidential campaign paid an ACORN affiliate $832,000 for voting activities during the primaries. Obama is certainly investing in his future. Acorn volunteers have worked on his campaigns in the past.

Obama’s ties to Acorn, Jeremiah Wright and his Church, Tony Rezko, William Ayers, Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines and Allison S. Davis (etc.) have been swept under a rug by the liberal media. They simply have refused to take a serious look at some very suspect associations, bad decisions and obvious cronyism by the Democratic candidate (and I pointed out several in my previous post).

Even the New York Times columnist Charles Blow called Obama’s resume “razor thin”. He has accomplishes very little in his career. He has the most liberal record in the Senate. The American people surely have the right to know everything about Obama - including his associations - while serving the public. What else can the voter go on? Regardless, character matters. All that I ask is the media investigate Obama as well as the average citizen who questions Obama - like Joe the plumber.

“Shame on all of those people trying to register our citizens to vote.”

Do you understand illegal? I-N-V-E-S-T-I-G-A-T-E-D for voter fraud. As far as I can tell no one was ever investigated for hanging chads (if you read Sharon’s post where she said Republicans stole the election). Its no secret that Acorn is signing up Obama voters and that’s exactly why in swing states they need to be carefully monitored. Fraud is not comforting to me in a close vote.

“Your party has cried wolf once too often.”

I find that extremely interesting considering the tone of the Democrats in this and most recent elections.

Should you ask the media to investigate Obama (as McCain and Palin have) you are either “xenophobic” or “race baiting” according to the New York Times, or worse, you might be compared to George Wallace - a southern racist. The race card has been flung around this election by the Democrats and the liberal media like the Republican party is just a modern version of the KKK.

Playing the race card is meant to stifle debate and, more importantly, to stifle the search for the truth. It has intentionally - and successfully - focused attention on the character of McCain and Palin, and removed the spotlight from Obama - and his past associations. In effect, race is used as a political tool to protect Obama. It’s a very effective method since racism is considered one of the most offensive acts in a liberal democracy where protection of minorities (religious, racial, gender, etc) is a defining characteristic. It is a serious charge. The Democrats and the liberal media are obsessed by race, but it’s a planned obsession since racism has been charged in most recent Presidential elections by the Democrats - and the liberal media. Another example is the Bradley affect which is commonly cited as the main reason should Obama lose the election. Racism again, of course. Clearly, invoking the Bradley effect is meant to imply that Obama is an unflawed candidate, and couldn’t possibly lose except by racist white voters (forget that African-Americans voted for Obama over Hillary 9:1 - that‘s identity politics).

Who’s crying wolf? What’s even more interesting is that Obama attended a racist church for twenty years that honored an anti Semite and bigot - Farrakhan. Obama called his grandmother a “typical” white person and pulled the race card on Bill Clinton for stating an obvious observation. How about Father Pfleger?

From your second post:

“This one falls under the category of numbers don't lie, but liars use numbers.”

The approval ratings are at historic lows (a lie?) and we both know why, although I am not going there now.

straighttalk Author Profile Page :

Powell is intelligent and wise. one who wants to do the right thing. he had the wisdom and courage to leave the Bush administration. I appreciate his honesty. no one else has the mental strength to say McCain's VP pick is dumb. and yes, his campaign is generating some scary stuff, reaching the scale of George Wallace. I would like to see the candidates tackle this subject, which is economy focused.
Push the investigation into wall street. give us some guarantee that they will make the thieves give the money back that they've stole. The fat cats of wall street use investment companies, banks, mortgages companies, and invent ways to steal/take hard-working people's money. Later they say... the companies failed. But these guys income increase. This means they have the money - our money. They have the multi-million dollar homeS, planes and all the life they stolen from other people. They've robbed, destroyed lives, and need to pay for their greed. It's not enough to just say what they did, allowing them to actually brag. I've heard some say... well, i lost money too... say, 10-million. Well, how much money did he desposit/hide away for himself before announcing that the company/ies is now in trouble. His so called lost may be a smoke screen. If the company failed, layed off employees, caused folks to lose their homes, how can a fat cat still have multi-million dollar homeS, FAT BANK ACCOUNTS and ETC? What did he lose that amounted to anything? Follow the money from the folks who lost money, to these theives who increased, or didn't lose all or much when their companies "failed." The only ones who have lost, and are loosing are the hard-working people like myself. The money ends up with the fat cats. It don't just disappear into thin air.

straighttalk Author Profile Page :

Powell is intelligent and wise. one who wants to do the right thing. he had the wisdom and courage to leave the Bush administration. I appreciate his honesty. no one else has the mental strength to say McCain's VP pick is dumb. and yes, his campaign is generating some scary stuff, reaching the scale of George Wallace. I would like to see the candidates tackle this subject, which is economy focused.
Push the investigation into wall street. give us some guarantee that they will make the thieves give the money back that they've stole. The fat cats of wall street use investment companies, banks, mortgages companies, and invent ways to steal/take hard-working people's money. Later they say... the companies failed. But these guys income increase. This means they have the money - our money. They have the multi-million dollar homeS, planes and all the life they stolen from other people. They've robbed, destroyed lives, and need to pay for their greed. It's not enough to just say what they did, allowing them to actually brag. I've heard some say... well, i lost money too... say, 10-million. Well, how much money did he desposit/hide away for himself before announcing that the company/ies is now in trouble. His so called lost may be a smoke screen. If the company failed, layed off employees, caused folks to lose their homes, how can a fat cat still have multi-million dollar homeS, FAT BANK ACCOUNTS and ETC? What did he lose that amounted to anything? Follow the money from the folks who lost money, to these theives who increased, or didn't lose all or much when their companies "failed." The only ones who have lost, and are loosing are the hard-working people like myself. The money ends up with the fat cats. It don't just disappear into thin air.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

ZOLKO - Hogwash! I have read so many posts about the dire consequences and price increases that I am sick of it. It's all a load of lies and crap and anyone with brains knows it. Take the Apple MacIntosh as an example. When production was moved to China no one saw one dime of a price decrease. In fact, there was a price increase. Same thing with prescription drugs. Generics were made in China and India until quite recently... and we found they were poisonous and stopped the importation of them. Now, those generic's are made right here and the cost hasn't increased by one cent. The European model provides ample proof that the differential, overall, between goods and services made offshore and those made in country are between 15% and 20% maximum. If you, then, consider that the present outsourcing track will lead to the crushing of the middle class and even lower consumer spending then it is insane to even consider staying this course. In the end, it will be downright dangerous to advocate outsourcing or guest workers. It is a form of treason and those traitors deserve all of the ridicule, hatred, and violence that is certainly headed their way. I've got to tell you, I am only one man and I am not violent, but if I heard that some outsourcing provider had been killed, I'd actually celebrate and, if I were on a jury trying that case, I'd find the person(s) innocent for harming anyone to do with outsourcing. I assure you, MOST American's agree with that sentiment right now; the press simply wont publish that fact.

Zolko Author Profile Page :

@ mibrooks27 : yes, but re-sourcing the jobs would mean an immediate price increase of 100% (in the USA), if you want to manufacture the same things as the Chinese today. And the Congressman who does this will loose re-election. Because the benefit would be felt much later.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

Zolko _ Ah, but they CAN end outsourcing...easily. If they simply reimposed the tariffs on goods and services that were removed to encourage this back in the 1990's, it would crub it. Likewise, they could actually charge duties and fees on things like Apple and Dell computers, Intel chips, Boeing aircraft parts, and Call Center services. Those duties were also removed by COngress in the 1990's. We had them during the whole of this nations history and every single European country has them today to protect their jobs! Moreover, we could easily add punitve taxes on companies that outsource and companies that hire guest workers. Those practices have high real and social costs that are born by the taxpayer and it's time to cease using taxpayer money to prop up those corporations cheap labor costs. Worse, as I pointed out below, those guest workers are literally dumoed here, having been used by their sponsoring firms, at an even higher cost. Taxpayers are angry about corporate and bank and Wall Street bailouts and, once they get an idea of the real cost of outsourcing and guest workers, they are going become downright furious. It might come down to people getting so fed up that they turn to violence, but whatever it takes, the globalization train ride is just about over.

Zolko Author Profile Page :

@ mibrooks27:

"The voters want outsourcing ended and understand that Congress can end it."

I'm afraid no, the Congress can't end it. For to end that, they'd have to do away with "globalisation", which is where the very-rich get their money, and money which makes the Congressmen re-elected. So first, some Congressmen need to be elected without those astronomical campaign fundings and media backing. To what, interestingly, Barack Obama, poses a bad example.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

The #1 concern, buried inside of those polls of voters concerned about the economy, is job loss and the #1 issue for them is OUTSOURCING! The voters want outsourcing ended and understand that Congress can end it. One unintended consequence of the H1-B and L-1 visa programs has been that, once their visa stay has ended or they loose their jobs due to their U.S. host company's downsizing, those guest workers stay. So, as explained in an article in todays WaPost, we have more than 3 million former H1-B workers running round this country, driving taxi's, washing dishes, in general working under the table in a variety of jobs and ever last one of them a burden on the taxpayer for medical help, social services, etc. etc. The U.S. companies that brought these guest workers here to begin with, the companies that laid off a U.S. worker and replaced them with these 21st Century indentured servants, simply walked away, sticking us with another bailout. Most people think someone adopting a pet and, later, if it is too expensive to feed or difficult to take care of, abandon it in a parking lot or neighborhood, are the worst sort of swine imaginable. If they are caught in the act of doing this, we will fine them or jail them. So, how is that we permit U.S. companies to do precisely this, but with human beings, and get away with it scot free! It's time to end the H1-B and L-1 visas, anyways, but it's also time to make those U.S. companies that used this program to pay for the damage they have done and continue to do; taxpayers have paid quite enough already for the insanity of the global economy. End that and you will end the recession.

blund Author Profile Page :

MIBROOKS27,

Oh, I agree. Congress has earned it's low marks. They are seen as ineffective as a body. Most people can't grasp the 60 vote rule in the Senate to cut off debate.

My only point was while the body is seen as ineffective and thus has low marks most individual Senators and Representatives generally are viewed positively. This is a reversal of what we see with the white house. The office of the presidency is seen as positive, but the current president is seen as negative.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

blund – re: Congressional approval ratings. I am not as sanguine as you. I think Congress, both Democrats and Republican’s, have earned those low marks. For example, an overwhelming number of Americans wanted us out of Iraq over a year ago and Congress did nothing. Likewise, something like 85% of the public is opposed to outsourcing, wants and an end to H1-B visas and other guest worker visas and Congress has done nothing. The excuses that they couldn’t are simply others in a long line of lies. Of course they can do something about it! They could pass punitive taxes on outsourcing, vote on legislation to freeze guest worker visas and, then, vote to end the program entirely, pass tariffs on goods and services (thereby ending those Indian Call Centers and bring those 2 million jobs home), charge Apple and Dell and other companies duties on their computers that are made in China or India, and “encourage” those and similar companies to bring those manufacturing jobs back to the U.S. Just about every issue you can think of, from some sort of universal health care (like a Scandinavian style national run HMO) to increased unemployment benefits, an end to the cap on Social Security taxes (another craven tax give-away to the wealthy), to NOT giving Wall Street and banks a bailout, Congress has acted in direct opposition to the wishes of the American people. You point about Congress’s low marks being earned as a collection (of fools and crooks), though, is right on the mark. The individual members hide behind that group, blathering on and on that they are somehow different than their fellows. But they are not. You and I both now that.

Now, our country is in trouble, economic, moral and social distress haunt us like a modern day equivalent of the three riders on the Horses of the Apocalypse. Least the originals come to visit, Congress needs to act and just about no one expects our “representatives” to act on the wishes of the voting public. Once the election is over, they will go about their business of chasing campaign contributions from the financial services industry, the wealthy, corporations, crooks of every stripe, and forget all about us, until this house of cards falls apart.

blund Author Profile Page :

TomW2,

I missed one thing that irks me. You wrote, "Have you noticed the approval ratings for the Democratic Congress. Its at about 10-15% or about half of the ratings for Bush. Whats up with that?"

This one falls under the category of numbers don't lie, but liars use numbers. While it's true Congress as a body has a very low approval rating (whether republican controlled or democrat controlled) it is not true individual representatives and senators have low ratings. The people of our country have serious misgivings about the body, but tend to like their reps and senators. This is very unlike the White House where 75% of the people don't like the person representing them.

blund Author Profile Page :

TomW2,

You wrote, "Obama has a long and distinguished association with the left-wing - get out the vote - political organization ACORN. Acorn is under investigation for voter fraud in several states (and has a heavy investment in swing states) which includes registering dead people to vote and registering the same person numerous times."

What ACORN is accused of doing is Voter Registration Fraud. Not Voter Fraud. ACORN has aleady flagged thousands of voter registration cards themslves as questionalbe. There is simply no way a group like ACORN can be responsible for 1.2 million new voter registrations without irregularities taking place.

Shame on all of those people trying to register our citizens to vote. Those nasy ACORN people. How un-American can you get? Just the audacity to think all of our citizens should vote. We all know unless you are neocon you shouldn't be allowed in a voting booth.

The reason the repub attempt at tying Obama to ACORN and Ayers outside of the repub base isn't working is because the association is so loose it has no merit. Independents understand this and could give a flying hoot about these issues. Dems just laugh at it and that leaves only the mindless repubs wondering why no one else in the country isn't upset that Obama has met Ayers and has had dealings with a community outreach organization like ACORN in his life.

Years ago I once had a house guest for a weekend who had been a colonel in the SS and was a card carrying member of the Nazi party in WWII. Does that action make me a Nazi sympathizer? Of course not. If anything I'm fairly pink politically. Bush had Putin at his compound in Maine and looked into his "soul". Does that make Bush are Russian sympathizer? Of course not.

Let's face it, McCain is going down and he deserves to go down in this election. The only question that remains is how bad he will go down and how much damage the republican party will be subjected to in this election. Bush has been a disaster for 75% of the American public and the credit crisis was just the icing on the cake for a failed administration. McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. He is not GW, but he certainly has backed him 90% of the time. 90% of the Bush administration is still a failed administration.

Hopefully, in the future a republican party can actually run on issues again and put the character issue in the closet. Nobody out side the repub base is buying the character assassinations any more. Your party has cried wolf once too often. The reason is all candidates are flawed. All people are flawed. Look at McCain. He comes home from being a prsioner of war to find his beautiful wife had been in a car accident and was not so beautiful anymore, 4 inches shorter and crippled. What does he do? He starts an affair with his current wife that lasts for over a year before he separates from his first wife. That's character? It's that type of hypocritical behavior that has rendered republican character attacks ineffective with anyone with an IQ above 50.

If the repub's can come up with something other then smear and innuendo they might actually be respected again.

foramerica Author Profile Page :

listen the only ones that can stop all this mess is us americans , now to stop it all americans needs to get all their money out of banks and wallstreet, now. without our money to play with they cant do anything. so yes its up to us americans to finnelly put a stop to it. so clean out all banks accounts and wallstreet money people. now
david spotted this on the guardian.co.uk site and thought you should see it.
>
> To see this story with its related links on the guardian.co.uk site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/17/executivesalaries-banking
>
> Wall Street banks in $70bn staff payout
> Pay and bonus deals equivalent to 10% of US government bail-out package
> Simon Bowers
> Saturday October 18 2008
> The Guardian
>
>
> Financial workers at Wall Street's top banks are to receive pay deals worth more than $70bn (?40bn), a substantial proportion of which is expected to be paid in discretionary bonuses, for their work so far this year - despite plunging the global financial system into its worst crisis since the 1929 stock market crash, the Guardian has learned.
>
> Staff at six banks including Goldman Sachs and Citigroup are in line to pick up the payouts despite being the beneficiaries of a $700bn bail-out from the US government that has already prompted criticism. The government's cash has been poured in on the condition that excessive executive pay would be curbed.
>
> Pay plans for bankers have been disclosed in recent corporate statements. Pressure on the US firms to review preparations for annual bonuses increased yesterday when Germany's Deutsche Bank said many of its leading traders would join Josef Ackermann, its chief executive, in waiving millions of euros in annual payouts.
>
> The sums that continue to be spent by Wall Street firms on payroll, payoffs and, most controversially, bonuses appear to bear no relation to the losses incurred by investors in the banks. Shares in Citigroup and Goldman Sachs have declined by more than 45% since the start of the year. Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley have fallen by more than 60%. JP MorganChase fell 6.4% and Lehman Brothers has collapsed.
>
> At one point last week the Morgan Stanley $10.7bn pay pot for the year to date was greater than the entire stock market value of the business. In effect, staff, on receiving their remuneration, could club together and buy the bank.
>
> In the first nine months of the year Citigroup, which employs thousands of staff in the UK, accrued $25.9bn for salaries and bonuses, an increase on the previous year of 4%. Earlier this week the bank accepted a $25bn investment by the US government as part of its bail-out plan.
>
> At Goldman Sachs the figure was $11.4bn, Morgan Stanley $10.73bn, JP Morgan $6.53bn and Merrill Lynch $11.7bn. At Merrill, which was on the point of going bust last month before being taken over by Bank of America, the total accrued in the last quarter grew 76% to $3.49bn. At Morgan Stanley, the amount put aside for staff compensation also grew in the last quarter to the end of August by 3% to $3.7bn.
>
> Days before it collapsed into bankruptcy protection a month ago Lehman Brothers revealed $6.12bn of staff pay plans in its corporate filings. These payouts, the bank insisted, were justified despite net revenue collapsing from $14.9bn to a net outgoing of $64m.
>
> None of the banks the Guardian contacted wished to comment on the record about their pay plans. But behind the scenes, one source said: "For a normal person the salaries are very high and the bonuses seem even higher. But in this world you get a top bonus for top performance, a medium bonus for mediocre performance and a much smaller bonus if you don't do so well."
>
> Many critics of investment banks have questioned why firms continue to siphon off billions of dollars of bank earnings into bonus pools rather than using the funds to shore up the capital position of the crisis-stricken institutions. One source said: "That's a fair question - and it may well be that by the end of the year the banks start review the situation."
>
> Much of the anger about investment banking bonuses has focused on boardroom executives such as former Lehman boss Dick Fuld, who was paid $485m in salary, bonuses and options between 2000 and 2007.
>
> Last year Merrill Lynch's chairman Stan O'Neal retired after announcing losses of $8bn, taking a final pay deal worth $161m. Citigroup boss Chuck Prince left last year with a $38m in bonuses, shares and options after multibillion-dollar write-downs. In Britain, Bob Diamond, Barclays president, is one of the few investment bankers whose pay is public. Last year he received a salary of ?250,000, but his total pay, including bonuses, reached ?36m.
>

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

TOMW2 _ Better watch out, those black helicopter's will be here next! I can't wait for the election to be over. Every day, we get some fool trotting out the latest nonsense they picked up from Fox News or Limbaugh, or another of those nuts, as they flail about, searching for some new spin or talking point to explain he disaster they have inflicted upon us all. I have a suggestion: if you are so lame as to be unable to think for yourself, please don't inflict an opinion you were such dimwit as to swallow on the rest of us as original thought.

TomW2 Author Profile Page :

SharonJenson

Every once in awhile a post comes along that is so ridiculous as to warrant a response. I haven’t got time to respond to all your over the top statements, so forgive me.

“Barack Obama has studied constitutional law, respects it, and is not interested in abusing a position of power for financial gain.”

Really? Examples below show that your statement is wrong. Is Obama really a different kind of politician (at least that is the way he portrays himself)?

1. Obama has a long and distinguished association with the left-wing - get out the vote - political organization ACORN. Acorn is under investigation for voter fraud in several states (and has a heavy investment in swing states) which includes registering dead people to vote and registering the same person numerous times. Republicans steal the election? That’s laughable considering the charges against Acorn which happens to get out (primarily) the African-American vote. During Obama’s campaign for the state Senate of Illinois, Acorn workers volunteered for the Obama campaign. He repaid ACORN while serving in the state Senate by introducing “Acorn-friendly legislation on the living wage and banking practices.” (Stanley Kurtz, “Inside Obama‘s ACORN“). Obama contributed over $800,000 to an affiliate of Acorn during the primaries. Obama defended ACORN in a lawsuit filed against the state, and he trained ACORN staff. How about that for payback (for get out the “Obama” vote)? Obama has now distanced himself from Acorn - just like the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

2. Obama had close ties with Tony Rezko - a convicted felon. Rezko served as a fundraiser for Obama’s campaigns. In Obama’s run for the state Senate, Rezko donated $2,000 to his campaign. Eleven of Rezko’s thirty-two low income housing projects resided in Obama’s district. Obama purchased a house at $300,000 below the asking price in conjunction with an adjacent empty lot which Rezko’s wife purchased at a full price of $625,000 from the same owner (to save Obama $300,000?). The Rezkos sold a small section of their lot to the Obamas for $104,000 because Senator Obama wanted a larger yard. Cronyism with clear financial gain - plain and simple.

3. Obama sent a letter to Bush in 2007 requesting $20 million to complete a housing project in Chicago. The request was approved. One of the developers of the project is a firm headed by Allison S. Davis who is a mentor and long time supporter of Obama. Mr. Davis - a founding partner in the law firm that employed Obama - contributed tens of thousands of dollars to the Obama campaign. A classic case of cronyism.

4. Elizabeth Wetzel (“Obama’s Other Radical Friends”) and Stanley Kurtz (“Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism on Schools“) both concluded that the Obama-Ayers relationship was much deeper than the conclusion reached by the New York Times in their article which the Times described as “sporadic” contact. Apparently, Ayers is a homegrown domestic terrorist that Obama “palled around with”.

5. Obama dumped his association with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright during the primaries - after attending this radical anti American and racist church for twenty years. The same church of Wright honored Louis Farrakhan - a known anti Semite and bigot. Obama, at first, denied hearing what Wright had said (where are those honest Democrats?)

A different kind of politician? Hardly. Only as a selling point for a very good politician.

“The Democratic Party has always been honest enough to believe that if you present the facts, the American public will reasonably, logically see the sense in their ideals. The Republican party does not waste time presenting honest fact to the American public. They instead use simplified sound bytes and verbiage that appeal to and can be easily recognized by simple and sometimes vacant conscience minds.”

I haven’t seen a Democrat run on their liberal voting record yet. Why is that? If you believe in an ideal, wouldn’t you defend it? Not the Democrats. They hide their records. In fact, Obama, who has the most liberal voting record in the Senate has, amazingly, morphed to the center of the political spectrum since the primaries - especially on taxes. He is now, basically, a believer in the supply side economics model. He said in an interview in early September (This Week on ABC) that if the economy was in a recession, he wouldn’t raise taxes on the rich. Why raise taxes at all if he believes it will hurt the economy?

Because, just like all liberals, he can’t wait for a good economy so that he can “spread the wealth” with YOUR money. He also - I am sure - noted Walter Mondale’s famous statement in his acceptance speech for the Democratic nomination for President in 1984 “Mr. Reagan will raise taxes, and so will I. He won't tell you. I just did”. Yes, there was one honest Democrat. The last one. All of us should expect higher taxes.

The Democratic Party is composed of as many liars and con artist as the Republicans. I really can’t tell the difference. Wasn’t it the Democrats who fought greater oversight of Fannie Mae under the direction of the illustrious Franklin Raines (who made $90 million in bonuses from false accounting methods)? Of course the Democrats are going to protect their interest.

Didn’t the Democrats invest in defeat in Iraq for political gain - now coming to fruition (but not because of Iraq). Didn’t the Democrats invest in the surge failing? In every sense of the word, the Democrats acted disgracefully - all for gaining power.

Have you noticed the approval ratings for the Democratic Congress. Its at about 10-15% or about half of the ratings for Bush. Whats up with that? So much straight talk and honesty that most Americans don't know how to deal with it?

There is so much garbage in your assessment of Iraq, that I wouldn’t even know where to begin.

SharonJenson Author Profile Page :

98% of reason is unconscious. The Democratic Party has always been honest enough to believe that if you present the facts, the American public will reasonably, logically see the sense in their ideals. The Republican party does not waste time presenting honest fact to the American public. They instead use simplified sound bytes and verbiage that appeal to and can be easily recognized by simple and sometimes vacant conscience minds. Therefore, the American public must work harder to concentrate on logic and ignore their natural tendency to be somewhat lazy. They must remember reason and logic are unconscious. Corporations have researched this theory for years with the help from psychological professors who have studied the brain and clever advertising. Corporations have invested in various levels of expertise and adjusted their marketing strategies accordingly.

Donald Rumsfeld, former Bush Administration Secretary of State, spent time making agreements with Iraq in the 1980's and he did so on Reagan's behalf. He, and the white house, had information from Iran about Iraq's chemical warfare. But in the years leading up to Rumsfeld's meeting with Saddam Hussein, Reagan ignored Iran's plea for help. Although it was against the Geneva laws to use chemical warfare, the U.S. chose not to assist Iran with this issue. Instead, other countries did provide help to Iran, recognizing the Geneva laws. The U.S. chose instead, to recognize the financial benefit of protecting Iraq, due to their massive oil capability. This not only contributed to personal wealth for the Bush Administration, but gave them insight they would later utilize while plotting to invade Iraq after 9/11. Prior knowledge of Iraq's unlawful use of chemical warfare and massive oil holdings clearly shows a transparent motive for the Bush Administration's persistent and persuasive invasion of Iraq after 9/11. This, combined with both Bush and Cheney being in the business of oil themselves, was all the reason they needed to invade a country having absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 or Osama Bin Laden. Despite their unruly use of chemical warfare, the Reagan Administration essentially supported Saddam by ignoring Iran's need for help. Time and again, under a Republican Administration so closely tied to one another and to oil, the U.S. smells of greed and a clear desire to keep the oil pumping. Reagan instead increased military protection in Iraq; not for it's people but for its oil assets. Iraq praised Rumsfeld during Reagan's time in office. Little did they know that Rumsfeld would later support an invasion of their country to take their only natural resource from them.

This would not be easy. But post 9/11, America wanted revenge and the well-informed and very greedy Bush Administration acted swiftly. They seized the opportunity to invade Iraq by building a convincing case. They produced false evidence and used Colin Powell to present it to and sell it to America. Rumsfeld immediately started a media campaign that would include radio, internet, print, and network news. He would plant seeds in the minds of shocked and vulnerable Americans that Iraq was the new enemy and that Saddam Hussein was the new target.

There was a young Governor, later a Senator, who strongly opposed the Iraq war when it was unpopular to do so. Barack Obama voted against the war. Sorry Obama, it didn't matter anyway because Bush didn't follow the Constitution of the United States; nor did he listen to anyone who told him the inspections were not yet complete. He, and his staff, acted quickly when they saw the opportunity. This is the worst abuse of power, example of greed, and destructive capitalism that only the Republican Party could commit. For any "undecided" voters out there, Barack Obama has studied constitutional law, respects it, and is not interested in abusing a position of power for financial gain. In addition, those who surround him have no ties or interest in Iraq's oil either. It is safe to assume that his Democratic belief that the United States of America needs some immediate attention, is shared by many. Please vote. Get a receipt. If any county or state voting procedures even attempt to flip votes, turn voters away, or ignore every American's right to vote, Obama will be ready. He knows the law. He already has people in places that are expected to have trouble. There will be no more stolen elections, hacked Diebold voting machines, or greedy politicians who will stop at nothing to remain in power. This is widely known among key players in Washington. This has directly contributed to the decline of the stock market. The higher Obama's numbers get in the polls, the lower the numbers get on Wall Street.

That said, our financial crisis goes far deeper than Republicans selling stock because they know the Administration is about to change. There is a mortgage crisis, and a housing crisis, and we are still paying too much for oil. Our troops are still losing their lives in Iraq for protecting oil. However, we have reason to be hopeful. No longer will the wealthy be getting wealthier from the majority of American needs (ie: gas, soap from Wal-Mart, prescriptions, and health care). There is nothing wrong with capitalism. Never do I suggest a strict socialist society should only be allowed to exist. Make your money corporate America, please! But not from our basic needs. America is more informed and if you attempt to, for example, privatize clean, safe drinking water, we will rise and revolt! Don't GO there. Concentrate instead on investing in industry that would be beneficial to not only our country but our planet, like clean, renewable energy. Think outside the box and be resourceful. Go back to the drawing board because Obama is coming whether you like it or not. Regulation is necessary just as laws are. No one should be allowed to walk into a bank with a gun and shoot those inside for the purpose of stealing money that does not belong to them. That, like many other crimes, is clearly against the law and for good reasons. So too should regulations and yes, laws exist to prevent America from hurting itself. We the people will seek to balance our country and restore what we have. We will work hard, pay our taxes, and never again allow those in power to lie to us and take advantage of our busy middle-class lifestyles. We are watching now, tapping in to reason and logic, seeking alternatives to corporate-owned media, and keeping the faith.

MaxiCooper Author Profile Page :

Tropicalfolk, I loved your comment.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

BLUND - All the more reason for an international trial of these people. I this trial is based on the notion of crimes against humanity, violating common sense understanding of civil conduct, then there is no legislative body, no lawyers, or twisting of laws to provide cover for the evil these men do. PUT THEM ON TRIAL! Imprison Mr. Gramm, Greenspan, the regulators and government officials who turned a blind eye, the CEO's and executives an trades that brought this toxic mess upon the world. Try them. Convict them. Confiscate all of their ill gotten gains. And stick them in some hellhole of a prison for a very long time. Do that and you will end the sort of raw greed and lack of morality that created this mess and make these INTERNATIONAL CRIMINALS examples.

blund Author Profile Page :

I guess I stand corrected. Apparently foreign investors allowed the US to throw away prudent underwriting guidelines and place 20% of all mortgages done in America between 2001-2006 in sub prime loans that zero of them could afford when the adjustments came due. I'm sure these same foreign investors knew that the bond rating agencies like Standard & Poors and Moody's was rating junk bonds triple AAA. It must have been this knowledge that caused foreign investors to flock to the US markets so they could be fleeced.

Get real. There is no relationship between foreign investors and what we've done to ourselves and investors around the globe. This one is our fault and we need to clean it up. We broke it and we need to fix it. Foreign investors have a right to be mad at us, but they also need to assist in fixing this mess.

2009 will bring the blame game into full focus. There will be criminal indictments and the US government will put into place regulations to stop this type of debacle from taking place again. That is not to say Wall Street won't find another "horse" to ride and fleece investors with a different scam at some time in the future. It's what they do.

Zolko Author Profile Page :

mibrooks27:

"I would, thus propose to address this as a global crime. Establish a Nuremburg like court to investigate and try the participants."

Absolutely. The excuses they find are ... in-excusable. They knew what they were doing. This should also be the end of "parlamentiary democracy" or "representatice democracy", as the elected depend on the media's good-will. Media which are the property of the ultra-rich, of course. Those elected should be tried at that tribunal too.

But at some point, we should also ask ourselves the question: what did one expect, when giving people huge amounts of money and explaining they are free to do whatever they want ? They pocketed it, of course !!!

ASTORIA Author Profile Page :

What is up with these reasoned and intelligent answers?
Don't you all know that Americans are only concerned with Joe the Plumber?

How dare you all try to distract us with facts!

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page :

First, we need to recognize that this isn't just a global crisis; it is an American created crisis that was exported to the world. The lack of regulations and oversight, the political cover provided by the likes of former Senator Gramm, and the flat out criminal conduct of many CEO's, traders, out and out fraud, that brought in involving bogus insurance to ratings for those toxic financial instruments. Look, this American export has all but wrecked entire countries like Iceland and has done grave harm to the economies of the world. The sheer amount of human suffering created is staggering. The people behind this economic meltdown have, in every sense of the term, committed crimes against humanity.

I would, thus propose to address this as a global crime. Establish a Nuremburg like court to investigate and try the participants. All of them! The regulators who didn't do their job, the political appointees who see to the interests of their Wall Street friends instead of the public, the politician’s and ex-representatives who knew full well the damage that was being done, the corporate officers and board members, executives, but especially the low level traders, in many case the same rats that oversaw the Enron Scam. A criminal trial of this nest of criminals would be impossible in this country. Most, due to power and influence, will never even be looked at. Other criminals will walk free, because of some loophole in the law or because no such law exists. Under the proposed international court, these criminals will be tried for crimes against humanity and they will not be able to wiggle off on a technicality when it can be shown that they full well knew that their actions would harm others, bankrupt retirement systems, manipulate energy and commodity prices that would cost people their jobs and even lead to the deaths of some. Likewise, U.S. law, as it pertains to the wealthy and powerful, is a joke. With the expensive lawyers playing to inexpert and easily confused juries, most get off. And, if they are convicted, they serve a very short sentence at a county club, complete with tennis, hand, and racket ball courts, and a gold course! Under the rules of an international tribunal, actual justice would be done and the finest legal minds in the world could be brought to see that justice is done; nullifying the expensive legal hired guns of the rich and powerful. Too, judges and experts in economic crimes would hear these cases and the ability to delude a jury would be minimized or gone. Likewise, we have long known that these wealthy individuals have squirreled away billions of dollars in "offshore" bank accounts or have created a bolt hole where they can run. A Nuremburg style court could go after every dime the criminals have hidden and confiscate it, could use the power of the entire world to either make a bolt hole and uncomfortable hell or worm them out of it. Best of all, severing time in a Belgium or German or Chinese prison for their crimes would not be the country club walk that many might have anticipated as a "worse consequence" of their criminal acts.

tropicalfolk Author Profile Page :

I agree that foreign investors are partially to blame for this crisis.

Why were they sending their excess money to the US in the first place? Because of plain and simple greed. They believed what many other believed: that Wall Street had a magic wand to create wealth. Foreign investors were fooled big time by Wall Street crooks.

Think about it. Emerging countries have billions of people desperate for jobs, lots of natural resources, and the potential for long-term, sustained growth. What they lack is, precisely, capital and know-how. A slight shift in global investment could turn things around.

Even though foreign investors were making lots of money in their own countries, they preferred the perceived "safety" and "high yield" of sending money to the US. Stupidity and greed turn out to be very expensive.

anonymous_ Author Profile Page :

BLUND Wrote: The US broke the system and will have the primary responsibility of repairing it. Only once the world believes the US has fixed their problem will they again invest in this country.
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US cannot be blamed solely for this mortgage & credit crisis. Remember there are countries in this world (friends of US) who do not have sufficient market to invest.

The friend look up to US to help them in their progress. US being a leader as it is is unable to refuse. So it creates a credit market for its friends, hoping that people will somehow manage their affairs responsibly.

As with anyt system or organization, the US foes exists. In case of credit market the foe is US capitalism and fringe nationalist, who consider foreign investment as invasion.

Now starts the game of constricting anyone and everyone who is benefitting from the foreign investments. The layoffs and hiring is skewed to screw up any beneficiaries of foreign investment.

The consumer data freely avaiable from open computer information systems is a boon to such capitalist foes.

Get the point. US consumers do not really need foreign investments. The Wall Street and republicans needs financial investments to pad their retirements and portfolios.

To end on a freindly note, keep your foreign investments in your pockets.

blund Author Profile Page :

Yes, there is a global crisis. This crisis is primarily due to actions taken by wall street with the help of the mortgage banking industry (especially sub-prime). We certainly can argue this all came about because of a lack of regulation/oversight, but that's only germane in fixing the problem that exists today.

The US broke the system and will have the primary responsibility of repairing it. Only once the world believes the US has fixed their problem will they again invest in this country. Foreign investment has been and will remain in the future a key to America's continued growth. Without foreign investment our economy will either grow at a much slower pace in the future or not at all. We need to restore confidence (I'm beginning to hate this word confidence as it is being thrown around so often it's losing it's meaning) globally.

US needs to lead, but it needs EU and Asian input for this to be successful.

Zolko Author Profile Page :

1) Are we sure the credit crisis is "global" ?
2) Are we sure the best answer is "global" ?
3) Are we sure a single person/organisation should lead ?

********************************************************

1 --> no. The crisis is only for those living on credit (on both ends: the debtor and the creditor)

2 --> no. The "global economy" depends on cheap and unlimited petrol. Since this is depleting, there will be more "local" economies, where 90% of the exchanges will be within the same continent. Therefore, there won't be a "global" solution, but many "local" ones. Besides, from the Human specie's perspective, it's better to have some diversity in socio-economical structures, so that we are better prepared when major external changes appear.

3 --> absolutely not. We need no "World Emperor".

yousufhashmi1 Author Profile Page :

Only the media can lead us out of this crisis

Those people who are thinking that Central banks ,bailing out packages or nationalisation can salvage this boat then they should be prepared for ultimate results.

These panic actions are aggrevating the problem.

this is not the time when the people can be fooled for such candies. their confidence in money business is eroding rapidly and now awareness and honest opinions will be needed before a smooth sailing will be expected.

Media can play a lead role in this activity. the people trust them. they may reveal the real culprits who were benefited due to this roller coaster ride and portray a real picture of the crisis.

vig_raman Author Profile Page :

US debt is at $10 trillion. People do not have enough income to pay of this debt. President Bush has created a roadblock for people to make a new beginning by instituting tougher bankruptcy laws.

Even if banks were to provide credit as proposed under new bailout bill, it will only be a short lived relief, unless US feds decide to keep banks propped at all costs.

The writing on the wall is very clear - The financial cleanup process has to run its course which implies individual and business bankruptcies will occur at a large scale. Due to which Interbank trust will develop gradually and may take few years.

Our salvation - I am waiting for the day when our kind Fed Chairman Bernanke decides to shower money from helicopters!

tropicalfolk Author Profile Page :

Who should lead us out of the credit crisis? Well, it depends on what you mean by "credit crisis":

a) Worldwide, credit is no longer available. Banks are not lending to each other because they are afraid they won't get their money back. Since individuals, businesses, and governments of all sizes have become too dependent on credit, the lack of credit could bring the world's economy to a complete collapse.

b) Financial institutions are no longer allocating savings to productive enterprises, but just creating exotic derivatives aimed at masking a troubling reality: first-world economies are not productive enough to sustain their consumption levels; individuals, businesses, and governments have become too dependent on credit; current debts are well beyond their ability to pay.

If you marked the first option, then your hero could be anyone in the mainstream: Brown, Paulson, Buffet, even Greenspan (who has been advising Brown lately). Or Obama-Krugman, who definitely see Big Government as the only solution to financial crises. Or McCain, whose "limited government" principles have been put to rest. Or even Bush and Pelosi, who have agreed on every borrow-and-spend stimulous plan.

If you went for the second option, then you need to look for someone with the guts to tell people: "We, as a society, are spending too much; we need to work more, be more productive, save more, waste less, spend less, and start paying back our debts; otherwise, as a society, we'll soon be out of business". So far, there have been very few men like that: Ron Paul and those who voted against the Paulson bailout, a few libertarian pundits, and some well-meaning foreigners such as Ali Ettefagh and Miriam Leitao.

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