Readers’ Responses to Our Question (15)

xyrbq tlhmap zogrhbmaf sbgxqth xbsdkgq gump xgifb

xyrbq tlhmap zogrhbmaf sbgxqth xbsdkgq gump xgifb

ZAHER i agree with you

well theres no such thing as bad publicity in the movie biz mr hasmi-

good points-

steven- we stand on the shoulders of giants-

"Law should be based on a rational, logical, and empirical asscessment of the needs of the CURRENT society, not of one that existed a millenia ago."

of course laws are enacted in their current settings-

it was muslims who rescued greek philosophy from obscurity-
even a muslim envisioned scientific method itself!

" No rational person can possibly condone pulling the civil and criminal laws of their country on a text that is over 1300 years old."

like america?
our constitution, even democracy itself are garnered from that ancient philosophy-
(several millenia ago)

the flexibility of islam allows it to be relevant ,even forward thinking-

is there some modernist thought that you can extricate form its origins?

something isnt valid because it has stood the test of time?

apparently, it has remained dynamic for quite alot of people-

i dont believe you actually read the text of the statement- it was addressed to a person who i feared may encourage exactly your reaction-

i don't believe you could find irrelevance in it- in current life- but youre welcome to try.

however- it is not pertinent to the conversation.

i find your comments reactionary, but adding little of constructive critique.

The film is a classic example of selfishness by the producers who wants to select a provocative subject not for any other reason but only for self stardom, publicity and finacial benefits.

The most important point on this question I found is that the actors were discarded like a paper towel thrown in a dust bin.

I really feel it as a bad taste. The canvas for the movie selected is Afghanistan in my opinion is not important. The people who wants a provocative movie in the land scape of Afghanistan naturally made lot of research on local culture,traditions and taboos. So in an environment where killing a perswon for self respect is just as common as washing the hand in a wash basin , any such action must have been came on the minds of the producers.

But if say the children were murdered for any reasons then it makes a bigger news in western media bringing more publicity for the producers and naturally some additional millions for the producers.

All this debate over the jurisprudence of the Koran (or the Bible or Torah, by extension) and how it should be applied today is ridiculous. No rational person can possibly condone pulling the civil and criminal laws of their country on a text that is over 1300 years old.

Law should be based on a rational, logical, and empirical asscessment of the needs of the CURRENT society, not of one that existed a millenia ago.

What happened is no different whatsoever than what gay rights advocates do in this country. They snuck in this collection of "senior citizens" at a discussion at a local school. It turned out what they wanted to discuss was acceptance of their homosexual lifestyle which, in turn, started an uproar. The liberal local paper, of course, blathered on and on about tolerance, etc. and the religious conservatives went into fits. Up in Washington, to the North, a bunch of gay rights sorts have been engaged in an initiative petition to require all married couples to have a child within three years or the state declares their marriage null and void. It's all about cultural warfare, with wealthy gay types on one side, demanding "acceptance" and special privileges and everyone else on the other side. Now, I could care less, like like most people, f someone is "gay" or "lesbian", but if you try and shove it in my face I'm going to get a little ticked. THAT is what happened in Afghanistan and that is what is happening here, too.

to be clear on the extraordinary wisdom and mercy in the law itself-
4 different witnesses to the act itself must be verfied-

what an impossible situation to imagine-

we are as muslims striving to emulate the incredible mercy and compassion of our Prophet(pbuh)

who in turn, was led by the mercy of ALLAH- Whose mercy we contain not an atoms weight in comparison to a supernova-

ALLAH says in the qu'ran, "Verily my mercy overcomes my anger"

we must never attmept to circumvent the will of ALLAH to justify our own judgements, condemnatory tendencies or desire for vengeance.

ALLAH loves those who are forgiving.

zaher-

"The prophet PBUH did it becuase he wanted to teach the moslems how to purify the society"

The Prophet(pbuh) was so hesitant to enact this punishment, that the woman who accused herself,had to come back 3 times and insist on her punishmen, as she didnt want to die with this sin on her soul.
The Prophet(pbuh) gave her several chances to escape this horrible punishment.

you seem to suggest that the punishment should be enacted and accepted with some ease-

the Prophet(pbuh) did NOT do it because of anything he wanted personally- but to be obedient to ALLAH and the qu'ran.

and with justice, fairness and great hesitancy.

i would be interested if you cold find any case, where islamic law was fully followed, the 4 witnesses were present to proceed with prosecution, or the person accused themself and asked for the punishment to be given.

these cases where people are stoned, are outside the jurisprudence of what the qu'ran commanded.

we can say it is possible tat the intention of ALLAH in givng this punishment was to eradicate a marriage destroying sin-
but we cannot know the will of ALLAH- only look at the results of the law.

even if the entire muslim society benefits from the death of one adulterer-

that life, if it is innocent, and taken unjustly- is as if the whole world were unjustly murdered.

peace

THIS WEEK AT WAR WILL DOBSON FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE-
transcript of show DEC-22-

FOREMAN: Wow. Just amazing. Dear Osama, we're breaking up. Another one of your headlines. What does that mean?

DOBSON: That's right. In September, a very prominent radical cleric in Saudi Arabia DENOUNCED Osama Bin Laden. This is important because this is a man who once mentored Osama Bin Laden. So this is a very important shift because it suggests that there's real fissures, differences of opinion even in the corners of radical Islam and a place like Saudi Arabia.

FOREMAN: When you look at things like the awakening movement in Iraq, do you see that as being related to this?

DOBSON: Well, it's clear right now that there is a war within Islam of ideas going on right now. And so this, we may look back at this as being a turning point where people began to ask questions. And this is important because this is a real blow to Osama Bin Laden's ideology and following.

I think some of the Moslem Americans are hurting Islam and the countries from which their grandfathers immigrated. They are shocked to see how Americans, non-moslems, treated them after 911, and how most of what they used to say about their country, as Americans, became lies. for instance, tolerance, multiculturalism,...etc.

Ms.Salama considers stoning adulterers and adulteresses a barbaric act which doesn't fit life today. she is very wrong on that one because this act is still very valid today because the prophet PBUH him did it.

The prophet PBUH did it becuase he wanted to teach the moslems how to purify the society. Adultery isn't an easy sin.It destroys the family and the relationship between the married couple.Marriage in Islam is described, as it is shown in the holy Quran, as " very firm" contract, and the puishment of breaking that contract-by adultrey- must be equal to its strength.

The danger remains in minds of some of the Moslem Americans in particular and those in the west in general in how they view Islamic concepts while Islam is being attacked.

They must understand that if they want to fix a problem in their original countries,they must do it there not from the US. Other wise, they must stay in the US and mind their own business

The parents and guardians of these kids knew what was in the film. It was in the book and in the script, which they had beforehand.

OTOH, those kids deserved to get paid better than SAG minimum for their work. That they didn't is the real violence. I'm urging everyone I know to boycott the film.

No Global One Rule, no SAG signatory, AFAIK.

"... it is not anyone's responsibility to impose democracy on a given country...". (Vivian Salama, "Don't Judge Afghan Culture")

I believe the point here is that values not only may not but simply cannot be imposed on people, let alone on whole countries, least of all through violence and war. Values spread through example, and through example alone.

On this thread, people seem to enjoy showing how outraged they are at what they consider crimes (inhumane, barbaric) and abuses committed in Afghanistan: oppression, stoning, etc.

They would rather have the world believe they are on the side of respect for basic human dignity, human rights, freedom, protecting women and children, and for not leaving any of that to the discretion of individual governments.

It is John Pilger who pointed out that: “We, in the West, know a lot about the crimes of other people but almost nothing about our own.” To be quite clear: we, who are citizens of a country whose very own citizens have failed, repeatedly, in recent years, to respect human rights, international law, the Geneva conventions, etc. in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Vietnam, all over Latin America and on every continent, we who have betrayed, again and again, most shamefully, the very values we claimed to uphold and to fight for, it resulting in millions of victims all over the world, WE have no credibility whatsoever to impose our “values” on other people.

Let me call upon Gandhi to illustrate my point. A lady once met Gandhi with her son and asked the Mahatma: “Please, tell my son not to eat sugar. It is unhealthy that he eats so much sugar.” After a long pause, Gandhi asked the lady: “Please come back in a month.” A month later, the lady was back with her son and once again asked: “Please, tell my son not to eat sugar.” Gandhi turned to the boy and said: “Do not eat sugar. It is not good for your health.” The mother then turned to Gandhi and said: “But Mahatma, why did you not tell him that a month ago. I live far from here and had to waste days traveling back and forth.” Gandhi bowed and said: “Mother, last month, I still ate sugar.”

How about we begin being outraged about what we ourselves do, and start mending our ways, for a change, before we lecture others? I bet that if only we did, we would stop feeling that didactic urge, at last.

December 22, 2007 3:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments

I like your logic X2, but alas I doubt that's the case here. Unless we've all forgot this is a state that came close to executing one of it's own citizens for simply converting to Christianity. The producers were either ignorant, which I hope is the case, or stupid. Either way the old adage applies here. When in Rome do as the Romans do. Ok, when in Afghanistan abide by their laws or go somewhere else where the laws are more conducive to what you want to do.

This is easy. It's Bush's fault.