People cannot always control events outside their borders. History is littered with peaceful tribes, cultures and nations conquered by non peaceful, aggressive people.
As far as war goes, count me in as believing war will never end. There are so many causes to fight for that I doubt the highest speed computer could list them in a week. When we get done fighting each other (which will never happen), we will fight the Clingons (rightfully)...
This poem dedicated to:
The Tibet nation Leader Dalai Lama, and
all world impotents, so-called "leaders" and including the U.N members, and U.N.S.C members
“Hell World! And Shamed on You!”
Hello World! And Shamed on you!
Supposed not but I must remind you!
In world daylight FOO,
While the world suddenly piled up with POO”!
That the world (and U.N) must not do!
Turning earth-place into an unfortunate smelly ZOO!
As the world always DO!
That I’m going to “PROO”(prove)
To the nasty YOU! the world naive and lazy FOO!
Hello World! and Shamed on you!
1/ While Tibet had needed you!
To confront with barbarous cheenee “CRU"(i.e., cruel)”!
While you behaved as the only “POO”!
And finally left all Tibet(ans) had to “ROO”! (run )!
Like birds headed toward
Places have no more smelly “cheenoos”!
And away from the place fouled with the “monkeys do” (Tibet nation becomes a "monkeys-do" place arrogantly and barbarously invaded by China as a member of UNSC)
Hello World! and Shamed on you!
2/ While the world are made of full with “POO”!
While the world watched Khmer “ROOs”! (Rouges)
Cuting millions throats of innocents in the world daylight of their ZOO!
Called as the Killing (Fields) “FOUs”!
While you only buy the times, sit and “POO”!
And naively let cheenees “FOO”! (fool all of you)!
You, and all your world-“FOOs”! (the world fools)
No more than bunches of global “ZOO’s POOs”!
That (these fools) never know how/what to DO!
For freeing victimized innocent folks trapped in the nasty ZOO! (i.e., Killing Fields)
Laid death more than unfortunate “bird-flued” coocoos (i.e., birds)
Hell World! and Shamed on You!
3/ While you eat, sit, piss, fax, count money and never DO!
While the cheenee was heading into!
Paracel (islands) in the Pacifoo! (Pacific)
To rob islands of the unfortunate Vinoos! (Vietnam)
While you sat dumb like the only “POO”!
Shamelessly, while never did or DO!
To chase off the worst CRU(el) cheenoos! (barbarous Cruel Cheenoos)
That you supposed to DO!
Hello World! Shamed on you!
4/ While you sit, eat, piss, fax, count money and POO!
And never did or DO!
When the cheenee sits and “FOO” (fooling)
The entire kids in the U.N and UNSC ZOOs!
With the everyday filthiest cheenee veetoos! (vetoes)
To inflict deaths (and devastations) to the world ZOO!
While you suppose to evict the cheenee (i.e., the worst-of-all-worst) but U can only POO!!!
Like everybody else can DO!
While unconsciously seeing mankind coping with their never-ended global FOOs!
(from: Conscience-to-the-world /created to memorize and shared bad times with millions of all world victims and deaths in the barbarous ways inflicted my world worst-of-all-worst devils of this rotten planet earth)
Thank you for your kind words. I’m not naïve enough to believe I’ll ever see peace in my life. Our world history has no model for prolonged periods of peace. In fact, history is contrary to peace. Is the basic theme of man’s inhumanity to man something that is in our genetic makeup? Will wars just continue as long as the human race exists? They are tough questions to think about since recorded history has never known anything but war. My naivety may be to think that a Kantian like Perpetual Peace can ever take place. Logically, I like to think it can.
Tom Wonacott,
You’re welcome. I hope you can see we want the same things. We just disagree about how to get there. You might want to amend or expand on your sentence, “I believe that peaceful doesn’t necessarily lead to peace and how that should translate to foreign policy.” If your point is the limited number of times the world has seen something that approaches relative peace it hasn’t lasted I can buy that. However, as written it contradicts itself.
While I would readily concede I don’t know if my approach will work the one thing I’m sure of is that your approach has a history of over 5,000 years of just producing more conflict.
BobL-VA writes: "The question we struggle with is how to promote our point of view. Most liberals argue vehemently this should be done through example, education and sanctions when necessary. We argue that fighting for peace makes about as much sense as having sex to preserve virginity."
BobL-VA, I found your latest post remarkable. I am not sure I would consider myself a "liberal", yet I support your views to a very large extent.
I just want to complement what you have written with the following excerpt, from Mahedy's "Out Of The Night", discussing healing and the just war:
"The nation that believes itself to be morally correct in all that it does would do well to learn from the bitter anguish of those who fell from grace while doing its bidding.
The Vietnam soldiers forced America to face the fact that war is primarily a moral issue. It is really a series of individual moral acts, some good and some evil, but all partaking of the sinfulness of war itself. The myth of glorious war rings hollow after Vietnam. War in the cause of virtue makes as much sense now as it does sex for the sake of virginity. Sergeant Stryker and Rambo still flicker across our screens, but after Vietnam, they are as real as Alice in Wonderland."
I suggest we remember the above, if only out of respect for that new generation of Vets, most of whom have yet to return from Iraq and Afghanistan, and begin their own long, so lonely, horribly painful and too often hopeless, endless journey "out of the night".
Shall we have the courage to be the least compassionate, when the time comes? For like it did last time, it will come, soon enough!
We have different philosophies when foreign policy is the topic. On the positive side, we agreed on the PG prostitution question, so we do have some common ground. Where we differ is that I believe that peaceful doesn’t necessarily lead to peace and how that should translate to foreign policy.
Diplomacy, incentives and sanctions don’t always lead to peace but should definitely be the starting point. However, in some instances sanctions can be as destructive as war and be ineffective in producing change (Iraq). In some instances, sanctions are diluted so much (at the UN) that they are ineffective simply because the parties with veto power disagree politically (Iran). To me, diplomacy is more effective if backed by a strong military with a credible threat to use the military, in other words, negotiate from a position of strength. Appeasement may embolden an aggressor while attempting to avoid war.
Ethnic cleansing, mass murder, rape and genocide (Rwanda, Congo, Bosnia, Sudan etc.) occur because the perpetrator believes they can act with impunity, and in most cases, if we view the world today and in the past, they are right (Darfur).
Let the athletes run. Every time a democratic nation places first second or third they have a platform to speak to the world on human rights.
Actually the olympics could not arrive at a better time. The spotlight will shine on China's dark corners of human abuse.
Let the athletes run. Every time a democratic nation places first second or third they have a platform to speak to the world on human rights.
Actually the olympics could not arrive at a better time. The spotlight will shine on China's dark corners of human abuse.
I hate having to rewrite these posts, but when the PG web site gobbles them up into cyberspace there is little choice.
There is little doubt that the ultimate goal is free and open societies on this planet. Hopefully, along with free and open societies peace and a respect for basic human rights and needs will naturally follow. So far I think there is very little difference between the conservative and liberal ideology.
The problem that obviously arises is that at this time not all countries are interested in free and open societies. That’s the dilemma we face in our foreign policy on a daily basis. Islamic States would be a classic example. Any nation run by a fundamental religious sect is by nature contrary to free and open societies and are poster children for why church and state should be separate. Factor into this equation the number of despotic regimes in the third world and a massive country like China that is moving towards freedom at a snails pace and you have a high percentage of the world’s population living under systems we find objectionable.
The question we struggle with is how to promote our point of view. Most liberals argue vehemently this should be done through example, education and sanctions when necessary. We argue that fighting for peace makes about as much sense as having sex to preserve virginity. Killing people never produces peace. It only produces a temporary end to a conflict one way or the other. WWII didn’t produce peace, it only ended Hitler’s threat in Europe and the Japanese threat in SE Asia. About 100 million people have died in conflicts since the end of WWII. That’s not peace. Wars don’t result in peace. To date they have only resulted in more wars and conflicts. In the absence of an act of war committed against us that cycle needs to change if we really are interested in the world becoming a freer and more open place to live.
Any assertion that the vast majority of liberals embrace ideologies contrary to the goal of free and open societies is patently false. No one, but a sick pervert, would want to hug a Bin Laden or anyone like him. He is a heinous criminal and should be hunted down like a dog and either given an early exit from life or tried for his crimes and then given an early exit. That we invaded Afghanistan was something just about every liberal agreed with. Afghanistan committed an act of war against the US by aiding and abetting Bin Laden. We have every right to defend ourselves from these types of attacks and I supported Bush’s use of military intervention. I have been very disappointed with the way he prosecuted the campaign and the results, but I supported the concept. Personally, I would have gone in with a much larger force and would have done a great deal more damage to the country. I then would have pulled out as quickly as I went in there and told the remaining people who they choose as their government is up to them, but if they commit another act of war against us to start stocking up on food in the caves because that could well be the only safe spots in the country. See, even liberals take attacks on our country seriously.
As to the argument that the terrorists win if we act like them. I partially agree. If we believe in human rights then just because someone else doesn’t believe in them doesn’t give us the right or duty to then also breach them. I know, you’ve heard the torture issue before. However, I can’t get away from it as it defines who we are as a society. Torture is barbaric. Whether some sicko group in the ME is responsible for it or we are it is no less sadistic or barbaric. It then defines what and who we are. Good people never torture. On other issues like strategy it is incumbent on us to change and evolve strategies to protect ourselves without trampling all over human rights issues. Much as radical groups are constantly changing strategies. Let them continue to act in barbaric and sadistic ways until we can hunt them down and make them pay for their crimes against humanity.
In conclusion, assuming free and open societies are our goal we need to promote this goal by example. We need to encourage countries we would currently view as not free and open to move in that direction and sanction countries who act contrary to moving in this direction. At the same time we need to protect ourselves from as much harm as possible without engaging in human rights violations and invasions of other countries that have not committed an act of war against us. Maybe, if we’re lucky, we’ll see our goal realized in a few hundred years. Social change still moves very slowly.
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without them, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally, and let them host as friends without all the entangled political b.s. rolling down from the top, and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without sports, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally without all the entangled political b.s., and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without them, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally without all the entangled political b.s., and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without them, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally without all the entangled political b.s., and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
I did respond to your post, but PG gobbled it up and is holding it for review I'm gussing t's a right wing conspiracy agaomst us liberals. Anyway if they don't post it by morning I'll try again.
Needless to say, all mankind have long known that China is definitely the-worst-of-all-worst and odorous culprit to stay in the dark to push the Khmer Rouges trained and supported by red China to murder their own Khmer innocents not very long ago in Cambodia!
And now the world has seen again Red or Bloody China has backed up the iron-fisted, bloody Burmese murdering regime volunteered-slaves and trained of China to wildly kill, kidnap, torture, and terrorize their own peace-loving, innocent Burmese citizens who only apply peaceful means to ask for freedom and democracy and no more and no less!
The world has to wake up to recognize that:
CHINA IS ONLY THE-WORST-OF-ALL-WORST, MOST DANGEROUS,VERY TREACHEROUS, MONSTROUS DEVIL OF THE ENTIRE WORLD TO RELENTLESSLY DO HARMS OF ALL SORTS AND APPLYING ALL SORTS OF FILTHY AND AGAINST-ALL-MANKIND WORKS TO KEEP GLOBALLY MURDEROUS REGIMES TO BECOME A BUNCH OF VOLUNTEERED SLAVES TO SERVE BLOODY CHINA! AND AT THE SAME TIME THESE MURDEROUS REGIMES OR VOLUNTEERED SLAVES FOR CHINA CAN HARVEST ALL WEALTH FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND NATIONS FOR THEMSELVES LIKE RULING PIRATES AND ALWAYS BEING BACKED UP BY CHINA IN THE UNSC WITH VETOES IN THE FRONT EYES OF THE ENTIRE WORLD CIVILIZED NATIONS!
IN ESSENCE, THE WORLD-WITHOUT-CHINA IS DEFINITELY A BETTER, SAFER, LESS-TROUBLES AND MORE CIVILIZED WORLD FOR ALL MANKIND TO LIVE IN HARMONY!
NEEDLESS TO SAY, CHINA IS DEFINITELY WORLD-TROUBLEMAKER, AN UNCIVILIZED NATION AND NO MORE AND NO LESS, WHERE BUNCHES OF CHINESE MURDERERS VOTED-BY-NO-BODY IN CHINA HOPPED INTO POWER AND SADLY ENSLAVING THEIR OWN UNFORTUNATED 1.5 BILLIONS CHINESE PEOPLE LIKE SLAVES INDEFINITELY AND HOPELESSLY AND NO MORE AND NO LESS THAT ENTIRE WORLD HAVE SEEN FOR TOO LONG!
FOR THE GOOD SAKE, THE WORLD BY ALL MEANS HAS TO KICK CHINA OUT OF THE U.N.S.C DUE TO CHINA HAS BROUGHT SO MUCH ODOROUS AND UNCIVILIZED CHINESE-WAY OF ANIMAL-LIKE HABITS AND BEHAVIOUR INTO THE U.N.S.C AND MAKING THIS PLACE TURNING INTO A TRASH-LIKE OR GARBAGED PLACE TO FORCE THE ENTIRE WORLD TO SMELL THE ILL-SMELLING CHINA ODOR!
IN SUMMARY, CHINA REPRESENTS AN ODOROUS OBJECT OR GARBAGE-LIKE NOBODY-WANTS-TO-STAY-CLOSE CREATURE IN THIS WORLD AND FORCES THE WHOLE WORLD TO SMELL THIS ILL-SMELLING ODOUR AND SEE THIS FILTHINESS!
Needless to say, China the only nation in this world nation that kills its own citizens by mass-executions for harvesting chinese body-parts for human-body-parts transplanting businesses networks domestically and internationally to make good money for themselves! This China is the only nation in the world has this most un-civilize and animal-like way fo making money! that the entire world have seen for so many years up to now! and this kind of most barbarous Chinese-business that can only be found in China! the place of human-like monsters to exploit lives and dead bodies of their own chinese and being treated exactly as cheap as animals on thier own land!
Therefore, all civilized world citizens have to recognize that China is exactly "the-worst-of-all- worst" devil of this planet earth that we have to live with!
WHO ON EARTH CAN PROVE THE ABOVE FACTS ARE NOT TRUE? AND PLEASE DO!
To: The World Civilizations
From: Conscience-to-the-world
Subject: "I Wish To Show You"
Hello World:
If U have few minutes, then pls. read this:
Question: “SOME POPULAR REASONS OF WHY THE WORLD CHAOS & CONFLICTS NEVER CEASE?”
A-1: “Greedy-and-bad-deeds” always are in conflicts with “good-deeds” and “greedy-and-bad-deeds”
always corrupt and easily take controls the “good-deeds”; while “good-deeds” are so hard to
preserve and easily to fade away!.
A-2: World-devils are always in conflicts with angels, and unfortunately, devils always try to trick others
by means of showing, proving others that angels are world worst devils, while the angels have no
capability to prove themselves as genuine angels to the rest of naive world-bystanders, naive
non-believers are sitting for accusing and complaining and crying, while these folks cannot protect
themselves from devastations of all sorts, caused by devils due to lacking of intelligence.
A-3: World devils have always evolved faster to do harms than angels that they can master new ways of
fighting back the evolving devils that is exactly like in the nature where germs evolve to fight new
drugs being manufactured.
A-4: World lacks of right and effective leader(s) who supposed to possess all necessary own resources
and his/their dedicated deeds such as: the real-time, harmonious, most-creative-and-long-visionary,
most-effective-and-down-to-earth mind, deeds, intelligence and evolving/mutable strategies and
resources and times, etc., to fight and/or set new plans/strategies/tactics to confront devils
physically or mentally or both.
A-5: Disturbances of own down-hearted/saddened citizens and local and global down-hearted stirrers,
Disbelievers and naives or short-tempered-and-can-do-nothing folks to join in to spoil or devastate
all feasible fighting plans against world devils and make all good-deeds growing foul.
A-6: World full with strayed and selfishness sheep/rabbits as non-cooperative nations that they can only
apply safest self-protective tactics as hiding under world-devils shadows by shying away from
world common problems and eagerly hiding away from any possible threatening, retaliation,
revenges problems that will be given arrogantly by world-devils.
A-7: World Laws and Orders and Justices have no one to take care of properly! While world-conscience
Seems has no place to stay and while world bad-deeds have been greatly prospered and constantly
being fooled by “illusionating” by devils to achieve their goals and profit themselves.
A-8: Etc.., and many, many more...
(summarized/simplified by: “Conscience-to-the-world”, 2007/10/12)
we should tell the Burma government that they must allow full play of democracy . It is barbarian to keep people deprived of their liberties.
All democratic countries should blockade Burma like the world did in South Africa till Nelson Mandella was released.
I’ve heard the torture issue for the last 13 months on this site, so I wasn’t really asking you about the (so called) torture.
From Stanley Fish (again, so you don't have to wade through all the "Conscience-to-the-World" post):
“…But if you distrust teleological arguments (as I tend to), you will be skeptical of the possibility of exporting democracy and think of it instead as something others might take or leave, depending on what they hold dear…
...Given that democracy privileges some values — personal mobility, individual entrepreneurialism, tolerance, cosmopolitanism — and downplays others — community, ideological conformity, cultural stability — its attraction will vary with the values a particular society embraces..."
In my opinion, probably based on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (but that's just a guess)), he has concluded:
1. You cannot force democracy on other societies. You’ve said it many times and other posters have said the same thing. I’m not going to argue that point too much. It certainly will not happen overnight that’s for sure, but Chile, South Korea and Taiwan are now democratic after being ruled under a military dictatorship for some time. India has been a democracy since it’s birth ( I can see MikeB’s face coming through my screen as I say that) but still is trying to get rid of the caste system, and other human rights abuses. Democratization does not happen overnight, that’s for sure, but I believe it can happen given the right circumstances.
2. This is the part that I take exception to and believe that liberals (today, not traditionally) would tend to accept.
“democracy…others might take or leave, depending on what they hold dear…”
In other words, not all cultures necessarily want democracy. The values of a liberal democracy such as free speech, freedom of the press, protection of minority rights (a very powerful ingredient in liberal, western democracies), gender equality and so on are cultural.
He implies that culture defines human rights and that we should accept (and I believe that is what he is saying) cultural differences - even at the expense of human rights. In my opinion, what Stanley Fish is really advocating is a cleverly disguised policy of “appeasement”. Whether it is communism, Nazism or radical Islam (Islamofascism), plain and simple, they are totalitarian movements that are far inferior to western Democracies - especially concerning human rights and, as such, acceptance of these movements as cultural is totally misguided.
Michael Gerson, Washington Post, Wednesday, October 10, wrote an interesting article concerning traditional conservatism (you may have read it) in which he states:
“…A conservatism that warns against utopianism and calls for cultural sensitivity is useful. When it begins to question the importance or existence of moral ideals in politics and foreign policy, it is far less attractive…It argues that the most basic human rights will remain insecure as long as they are a gift or concession of the state -- that natural rights must ultimately be protected by self-government. And this ideology asserts that most people in all places, even the poor and oppressed, are capable of controlling their own affairs and determining their own rulers…”
How does Stanley Fish explain that 8,000,000 Iraqis risked their lives to VOTE on three different occasions? That is some protest against democratization! This happened in a part of the world that we all agree is probably the most difficult to democratize.
From Stanley Fish's article:
"...If terrorists can maneuver democracies into employing tactics indistinguishable from theirs, it could be argued that they have won no matter what the outcome on the battlefield..."
To me, terrorist have won when our foreign policy reflects an acceptance of these movements as cultural and morally equivalent.
I'm interested in your thoughts on Stanley's article.
(Wishing to show the world that world citizens are all in a wrongly “melting pot”!)
(Ref: “A BRIEF ANALYSIS ON GLOBALLY ACCUMULATED MISTAKES”(Next time))
"Hello World!"
Hello world!
I wish to tell just you!
That you’ve always found wrong way and heading into!
As you always DO!!!
And making the entire world just as a ZOO!
Or going “COOCOO”!
(“coocoo” slang means go crazy)
While no-one wished being as a “FOU”!
(“fou” in French means crazy in English)
But you’ll always DO!
Hello world!
Wish someday that only you!
Will find ways getting out of (your own) “FOU”!
(“fou” French also means “foolishness” or craziness in English)
And finally,
self-discovered as only a crazy “POO”!
And what now will you have to do?
...
“POO”?
...
Or (?)
“COOCOO”?
Or(?).
Listening only?
Well! But please do not “POO”!
That you make me “FOU”!
As you always DO!!!
And again!
Make the whole world “POO”!
Crazily like....
In a lasting ZOO!!!
Hello World! You must know that we are all wrong! and we are in the wrong track! That’s I’m going to tell you why?
(I wish to show the world that we are all wrong! ???)
Hello world!
I wish to tell now with you!
That you’re always found the wrong way heading into!
As you always do!
And make entire world as a zoo!
Or going “coocoo”!
(“coocoo” means go crazy)
That no one wish as the “fous”
(“fous” in French means the crazies in English)
But you do!
Hello world!
I wish someday that only you!
Will find ways to get out of your own “fou”!
(“fou” French means “foolishness” or craziness in English)
As only finally self-discovered a crazy “poo”!
Now what you will have to do!
Is only to listen and please do not “poo”
That you will make me “fou”
Like you always do!
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you, but I've been out of town and computerless.
Let's see you wrote and asked the following,
"Modern liberalism is struggling with the concept that fundamental human rights is cultural and is therefore something that we cannot change and should not strive to change. In my opinion, this is blatant acceptance of human rights abuses. A completely different approach than the movement of liberals in the 60s-70s where equality and human rights were the driving force behind the movement. To me, you could term it "retreat" liberalism (of course, I'm biased). I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject."
Just out of curiousity if I told you the moon was made out of cream cheese would you believe me? Of course not. Why would you think the modern liberal movement had it's roots in human rights issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sure, you can find references to human rights issues, but it wasn't the basis of the movement or even that important of an issue.
What you see today are evolved positions from Roosevelt's New Deal movement. The New Deal had nothing to do with international human rights. It had everything to do with getting America back on it's feet economically. The 60's and 70's liberal movement was in response to what was viewed as an unjust war in Vietnam. Yes, there was some of the poor Vietnamese syndrome going on, but that was more in response to the thought of young Americans going over and dying in rice paddies. Out of this phase of the liberal movement came civil rights, womens rights and maybe unfortunately that everyone in this country is fair game to be investigated for just about anything.
As for the human rights issue of course liberals and conservatives alike will at least pay lip service to the issue. It's almost like asking people if they believe beating children is wrong. The vast majority will obviously say yes and do very little to nothing when they see their neighbors spanking their kids.
As an American I can't control what China, India, Russia, etc., etc. do. I can try to influence it, but I can't really control it. I can also publically state I'm not in favor of actions that are obvious human rights violations. Finally, I would like to live my life in my country showing the world we practice what we preach. I want laws in this country making human rights violations completely against the law here. I wish this was the case currently, but alas it is not. The torture issue bothers me more then the so called war on terrorism. Yes, the world has some nasty people in it and they probably deserve an early exit from life. However, translating that premise into torturing people in our custody makes me sick and ashamed to be a member of a society that would act in such a barbaric manner. I know Bush claims he doesn't torture, but then again he won't define torture and there are few people on this planet that don't believe it is going on. In essence under the guise of national security we are committing human rights violations each and every single day over this issue alone and that's not showing the world we believe in human rights. I know the arguments for and against this type of policy and as a matter of principle I'm horrified we're engaging in these types of activities. This is a human rights issue I can have some input over as I will vote for anyone who says they will stop these policies. Republican or Democrat.
Why is it Burma Only? Let there be a Charter of Democracy signed by all the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council to bring democracy to all the relevant countries.
Dedicated to Madame Aung San Suu Kyi, a Nobel Laureate, a World heroine, an Angel of The World, a world Democratic Teacher, a courageous Lady carrying THE LANTERN OF WOLRD CONSCIENCE TO LIGHTEN UP THE WORLD DARKESS INFESTED BY DEVILS, YELLOW COBRA, LAND-PIRATES, MURDEROUS HUMAN-LIKE DEVILS AND VAMPIRES.
“I wish being with you”
I wish being with you, at moments while can no longer stop to cry!
I wish being with you!
Beside your comrades, friends, full with blood and die!
I wish being with you!
sharing the coldness and loneliness in several endless nights!
I wish being with you!
For collecting teardrops falling from whom who can be hiding and sit to pray!
I wish to sit beside!
To a saddened hearts of someone having no more teardrops to cry!
I wish to serve a night!
With whom with a last hope as can only sit and pray!
I also wish the sadness soon will fade away!
On the eyes of Madame Aung San Suu Kyi,
a lonely World Angel, a lonely World Heroine, an endless World Suffering Symbol
Of our mankind!
That she can only hope and cry!
(from: Conscience-to-the-world, a souvenir of the sad moment of human history, 2007/10/11)
Beijing has been most helpful with regard to North Korea, and that was achieved without a boycott. A boycott will only make the Chinese feel persecuted-- such an action will only fall into the hands of those hardline elements of the CCP who most dislike and distrust us.
This poem dedicated to Dalai Lama, a Leader of the world recognized, sovereign Tibet Nation suddenly forcibly pirated by chinese ruling tyrants and thieves in the eyes of all mankind
“I Wish To Share with You”
Dear Dalai Lama! I wish to share with you!
While you have no place to stay!
While Tibet is suddenly become so far away!
As your beloved nation sudden swapped by the Yellow Cobrey!
In the style of world pirates only come to stay!
Dear Dalai Lama! I wish to pray with you!
For Tibet!
And will be someday returned back and stay!
With you and all Tibetans motherland-seekers!
While:
Innocents have no place to stay and pray! (as before)
Wandering and floating like wind like birds in heavenly blue sky!
Like Tibet citizens have no place
and chosen unwanted life
Of the world wanderers, downhearted refugees
Night will come and night will go!
But you still try finding a place to hide
Your tired body and mind from summer heat, rain, snow of the sky!
But no matter how much you will pray!
Chinese murderers/thieves will continue want to stay!
In the land of Tibet, a beloved land, given from your dad yesterday!
To you to care and no longer can be reached
with your lonely arms but only love!
In 1948 650'000 palestinian refugees were recorded whilst about 700'000 jews were expelled or left the arab countries.
The United Nations created the UNRWA to help the palestinian refugees but no help was envisaged for the jewish refugees.
Today there are no jewish refugees whilst millions of palestinian refugees still live in refugee camps.
From 1948 to 1967 the West Bank and Gaza were under arab control - why did they not decide to create a Palestinian state.
History can always be interpreted according to each one's subjective reasons - however facts remain facts.
While the world is sleeping,
Outside, in the dark, where no light of conscience exists
Hungry wolves, Yellow Cobra and gobblers are wandering
While the world is sleeping,
In the dark outside, where no laws and justices are found
Due to conscience has flown away
And left the human misery behind
For the world children to cry (fool)
While the world sky is still dark
And human-like vampires, devils are gathering and playing
With deaths and human misery of
all unfortunate innocents and victimized naives
Who only could only hope and believed in miracle
But it never comes!
While the world sky is still dark and the world is still sleeping
Treachery, illusion and evil deeds have well blended
To form sugar-coated poison pills to be given
To more new naive world children to try by
the world devils outside in the dark and in the wild
Of the conscienceless killing rampages
Masterminded by all human-like vampires
While the world sky is still dark...
Human conscience can only cry!
While the world is still dark..
to
BTMPost :
Dear first you read i have mentioned killed and dispalced .go and see the number of refugee from palestine as cited by international organisation of refugee and add the killed during israel encroachment and occupation from 1917 till today.
To all world weapon designers, inventors, researchers and developers:
NO WEAPONS THAT HUMAN BEING HAVE DEVELOPED IN THIS WORLD UP TO THIS TIME CAN MAKE ALL ENEMIES CRAWLING IN FRONT OF YOUR FEET LIKE THE INNOCENT WORMS AND CRY FOOL TO ASK FOR YOUR MERCY AND FORGIVENESS AND FAVOURS!
EXCEPT:
THE NEWEST WEAPON AS SO-CALLED: "THE TOTAL BOYCOTTS OF ALL CONCEIVABLE MEANS AND GLOBALLY" WEAPON THAT CAN BE USED BY ALL SOLIDIFIED, UNITED COUNTRIES TO APPLY ON A ARROGANT AND DISASTROUS ENEMY OR A WORLD DEVASTATOR OR EVEN MORE THAN ONE!
THIS IS A MUCH MORE CIVILIZED AND ELEGANT AND NO-KILLING-AT-ALL WEAPON WILL COST YOU EVEN A SINGLE BULLET OR BOMB TO BE DELIVERED TO PUT DOWN AN ENEMY AND MAGNIFICALLY AND AUTOMATICALLY IT CAN MAKE THE MONSTER OR ENEMY TO CRAWL AND WILL SERVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU DEMAND!
please test this wondeful most civilized weapon and kill no one but can make a bad guy or bad nation to self-transform into a good guy or a good nation volunteeredly to live nicely with the rest of the intire civilized world!
Pls. someone should experiment this "super civilized weapon" with China or Russia and see the immediate effect as it will start crawling on the next morning!
Q: "SHOULD THE WORLD KEEPS DANCING WITH THE RED OR BLOODY CHINA?"
ANSWER-1: "WHO ON EARTH CAN AFFORD TO DANCE WITH A NEVER STOP-EATING WOLF?"
ANSWER-2: "EVEN RUSSIAN WHILE SEEING CHINESE COMING TO THEIR LAND! THEY START TO PANIC AND CRY: "VOFVES ARE COMING! WOLVES ARE COMING TO KILL AND WIPE OUT THEIR SHEEPS!"
THE REST ANSWERS WILL BE GIVEN TO ALL MANKIND TO ANWER THEMSELVES AND POSE SOME EXPERIENCE WHILE DEALING WITH CHINA AND CHINESE WOLVES!
ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM ANYONE IN THIS WORLD ASKED?
HAVE A GOOD DAY! AND WATCH OUT FOR WOLVES OR YELLOW COBRA CAN DO HARMS TO YOU BUDDIES!
IN ESSENCE, THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL DISCOVER THAT THEY LEARN A DEERLY LESSON WHILE PLAYING WITH CHINA! BECAUSE THEY WILL SOON DISCOVER THEMSELVES THAT THEY ARE ALL ROBBED VICTIMS OR TRICKED VICTIMS OR ALL LOSERS! NEVER GAIN ANYTHING WHILE PLAYING WITH CHINEE!
"Please look into Burma to see Madame Aung San Suu Kyu, a noblest and courageous lady who has told to the entire world that: " You are only all useless and hopeless floks to contront with the devils: Burma and China thugs or tyrants! And all of you guys! you have owned me too much suffering and tortures physically and mentally that I have to receive and absorb for so many years in the iron-fisted, bloody hands of Burmese murderous thugs trained and supported by Chinese thugs always staying behind the scene to inflict deaths and devastations to innocents worldwide!"
The entire world should learn to use their conscience and not to learn counting money only and forgotten conscience while counting money and putting into their thirsty pockets while innocents have been murdered in the daylight!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: CONSCIENCE-TO-THE-WORLD | October 8, 2007 2:35 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 14:35 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
Hello World:
"Please look into Tibet nation occupied by the filhty and shameless, odorous China to see unfortunated Tibetans who have been suffered and murdered systematically by the chinese land-thieves and see Dalai Lama a Tibet monk who has to run for his life to live like a countryless individual in India! All human crimes as invading soveignty of the Tibet nation , to the murdering to Tibetans all done by the single uggliest China the so-called "the-worst-of-all-worst" in this planet earth! and no one including all world leaders have paid attention or done anything in order to force China to return the Tibet nation back to all Tibet people up to this time!"
This is the global shame that all nankind have to bear and seen China spits on all nankindd faces! Shame! Shanme! shame! to all mankind! that we all have been received by the Chin
In summary, the entire world have owned all Tibetians so much of suffering from losses of lives to loss of sovereingty of a nation called Tibet!
The whole world have to feel ashamed to see Dalai Latma has no country to live now! and all Tibetians have to become countryless wanderers or refugees worldwide!
Please let conscience lead all world citizens out of the world darkness created by red or bloody China for too long!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 3:07 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 15:07 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
Hello World:
"Please look into Tibet nation occupied by the filthy and shameless Red or Bloody China to see all unfortunate Tibetans who are suffered and murdered systematically by the Chinese thieves and to see Dalai Lama a Tibet monk who has to run for his life to live like a countryless individual in India! All human crimes such as from the invading sovereignty of Tibet nation , to the murdering to numerous Tibetans all have been done by the single China the worst of all worst barbarous human-like creature in this planet earth! and unfortunately, no one including all world leaders have done anything to force China to return the Tibet nation back to all Tibetan people up to now!"
In summary, the entire world have owned all Tibetans so much suffering of all kinds from losses of lives to loss of sovereignty of a world recognized nation called as Tibet!
The whole world have to feel ashamed with their conscience while seeing Dalai Lama who suddenly has no country to live in presently! and all Tibetans have to be forcibly become the countryless wanderers or refugees worldwide!
Finally, Please let the conscience leads you! The entire world citizens! in order to be able to get out of the world and odorous darkness created by red or bloody China for too long!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 3:30 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 15:30 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
Hello World:
If U have time! then please think about this:
"THE ENTIRE WORLD SHOULD ABANDON IDEA OF CONTINUEING VOLUNTEERLY DANCING WITH THE WORST OF ALL WORST YELLOW COBRA, WHICH HAS NEVER CEASED TO INFLICT DEATHS AND DISASTERS TO ALL WORLD INNOCENTS! AS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN CAMBODIA THE KILING FIELDS,INVADED AND OCCUPIED TIBET NATION, VIETNAM, INDIA, INNER-MONGOLIA NATION, DARFUR, AFRICA,N. KOREA AND MOST RECELTY AS IN BURMA NATION"
Needless to say, Red China or Bloody China is the everybody known as the only culprit to innitiate global disasters of all sorts as mentioned above and always cowardly staying behind the scene and never failed to exploit shamelessly the U.N.S.C to create more havoc to the entire world!
Finally, it is the time, the whole world have to wake up and chase the world worst devil China out of the entire corners of the world and return it to its own land so-called communist China enjoy themselves and to plan all murderous deeds at home but not the world, such as: harvesting its mass-executed chinese human body-parts from its mass-executing citizens for chinese organ transplants businesses at home! and leave the whole world alone! And with these evil human organs harvesting businesses that may lead to all enslaved 1.5 billion chinese will soon to learn how to react and re-take controls of this China, the land of deaths and murdering and mass-executions in large scale and secrecy!
Pls. let 1.5 billions chinese to dictate their own fates, their own nation China and their own blood-thirsty tyrants!. Otherwise, they will never have a chance to set them free and to become free citizens! Otherwise these folks will forever to be only the slaves for their own thugs domestically!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Thanks
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 5:58 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 17:58 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
What the world needs now?
1/Conscience and minimal of trading-murdering-for-wealth
2/Democracy, freedom, liberty
3/Free-from devil China and its murderous and secret deeds spreading and illusionating the naive world
4/A cleaner and more civilzed world including a cleaner U.N, U.N.S.C.
5/ A new U.N law to evict/remove/punish immediately any murderous UNSC member intended to inflict deaths and devastations to the world like China presently
6/ A world with least hatred caused by evil religion and its illusion, blood-thirsty tyrants
7/ A world combined by all responsible countries to promote peace, democracy, freedom, liberty but not murderous activities for self-interest!
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 6:44 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 18:44 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
To the world:
As U all know!
Every conscious individual in this world should have all opportunities to show others: WHO IS THE BAD GUY? AND WHO IS THE GOOD MAN!
Otherwise, the world will continue living in the darkness of confusion of all sorts tricked by devils, such as China in the U.N.S.C now!
thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 7:10 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 19:10 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
To The World:
It seems to be the time for all good nations in the world to dissmantle tue U.N.S.C!
Why?
Because this organization is full of Chinese garbages to systematically be brought in by China and Russia as well to foul up this place as a odorous place in the U.N in front of all noses of all mankind!
Pls. trash the UNSC and make a new one without China and Russia troublemakers for the good sake of the entire world!
Any questions asked? or it doesnot make sense to you for any conceiveable reason? oer even or own conscience?
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 7:18 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 19:18 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
The World Conscience:
Hello world!
If U have few free minutes, then pls. read this:
The entire world should vote and choose Madame Aung San Suu Kyi to become the second highest U.N leader in the U.N in order to work best and share all world responsibility with the present U.N leader in order to let Madame Aung San Suu Kyi to order China and its volunteered slaves Burmese ruling thugs or tyrants to learn how to behave like valueable individuals and return Burma and Tibet back to the Burmese and Tibetan citizens respectively!
Also, she and the present U.N leader can order and call in all world nations to vote to dismantle/trash the existing U.N, and U.N.S.C and re-establish or re-create the brand new U.N and U.N.S.C without the needs of the existence of the valuelessly, murderously bloody China and Russia the only valuable as the so-called world troubemakers!
In summary, the entire world should reunite together to force the U.N to trash/jeopardize itself and its useless UNSC and rebuild entirely the brand new UN and UNSC from bottom up and to make new rules, regulations and orders as to contribute by all world nations in order to be able to evict and kick out immediately all troublemakers that could hide inside the new and well-cleaned UNSC if making troubles to any nations in the world, or inflicting deaths and destructions to their own citizens such as invading and occupying lands of other nations like in Tibet, Vietnam, India, Inner-Mongolia, etc. or in Burma presently, that Red or Bloody China has done to the world in front of naked eyes of all mankind in this planet earth as an example!
This suggestion/recommendation should be sent to all world leaders and UN and UNSC as well! And Hoping the World Laws and Orders will descend on this planet earth soon!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world & TTT
October 9, 2007 12:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world :
Hello world!
If U have times then please read this:
"If you spent most of time to fulfill your obligation as to fill up your own forever thirsty pockets with money while seeing innocents who have been chased and shot to death in the daylight in Burma, in Tibet, in Darfur, in Venezuela, in Iran, in Syria, in Chechnya, in China then your filled-up pockets that seem to only keep money related to the blood of innocents in such lands! And that related directly to your efforts as too much time to focuse on money- counting while forgotten or leaving conscience being left outside the fences hundred yards away from you buddies! In other words, I wish to remind world citizens to stay away from devils and do not feed the devils to allow them to devaste their own innocents such as it is happening in Burma and/or elsewhere in this world! in order to minimize killing to be victimized by innocents worldwide! And also, pls. stop the popular habit as to dance with the Yellow Cobra as usual to reduce suffering that the Yellow Cobra of the world could continue to inflict more deaths to world innocents!
On my own, I only wish to see all Tibetans to have chance to return to live in peace and happiness in their own Tibet a world well recognized sovereign nation in the past and suddenly stolen by chinese pirates or thugs!
And China has to return Tibet nation back to Tibetans or face the entire world BOYCOTTS OF ALL FORMS: SUCH AS COMMERCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, POLITICALLY, DIPLOMATICALLY, AND ALL POSSIBLE SORTS OF BOYCOTTS SUCH AS: BOYCOTTING ALL MADE IN CHINA PRODUCTS WORLDWIDE! AND STOP IMPORT AND EXPORT ALL RAW MATERIALS FROM AND TO CHINA AND TO LET CHINA TO LIVE WITH ITSELF IN THIS PLANET EARTH ALONE! ETC.,
I also dream all innocents in Burma to have a chance to breathe fresh air and enjoy freedom outside of all prisons in Burma, and all courageous and respectful Burmese monks can have a peaceful moment to live as free citizens without dangers of death and tortures to death in burmese prisons! and all murderous Burmese thugs can return to China for being executed as criminals for their chinese master to harvest their body-parts to feed the Chinese human-body-parts- harvesting businesses as the chinese dream as making good money in the unique chinese way of making money!
Lastly, I wish The world should point their asses into the sky in order to be able to kiss the feet and toes of the courageous and most respectable Lady-of-the-World: Madame Aung San Suu Kyi to express admiration and appreciation and respect for her never-ending suffering and losses physically and mentally in order to teach the entire world how to live as a courageous individual like she is! The wonderful and most admirable "Angel-of-the-Entire-Planet-Earth!
Also, The world should learn how to feel ashamed themselves and condemn themselves as by slapping into their own faces each day for their cowardness while seeing Madame Aung SanSuu Kyi to be forcibly endured herself for too long without valuable assistances of any world leaders of the world and she has to absorb all terrorizing and punishing by Burmese thugs in the land of the devils Burma supported by bloody China that is not better than a hell on earth!"
"May World-Conscience Bless This planet Earth and its innocent and hopeless people! and send to hell all murderous ruling thugs and tyrants to live with hell fire forever and leave this planet earth alone!"
no to boycott.it does not work .let the burmese people take care of their own affair and they will be able to defeat the military regime.
the only county in the world that needs to be bocotted is israel.it is the only country that openly committs horrendous crimes against an occupied people and yet with the help of various american administrations has succsfully avoided any punishment.those who believe in justice need to look at the nazi zionists and their criminal behavior first.
TTT wrote "Israel=killed and displaced the million of palestinian people."
Yes, they displaced Palestinian Arabs and killed some of them after the surrounding Arab nations attacked the new state of Israel. Some of the Palestinian Arabs left on the advice of the approaching Arab Armies to leave the battle zone. But was it a million?
MOHAMMAD ALLAM – FINE, GO AHEAD AND LIST SOME WESTERN ATROCITIES. ARABIC AND ISLAMIC CULTURE HAS IT’S OWN RATHER LENGTHY LIST, TOO, SO IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THAT GAME…. THE EASTERN ROMAN EMPIRE, MODERN DAY TURKEY, WAS A GREEK AND ROMAN HOMELAND. THE CONQUERING ISLAMIC ARMIES SLAUGHTERED AN ESTIMATED 4 MILLION PEOPLE, EVERY WESTERN MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD THEY ENCOUNTERED. THEY COMPLETELY DENUDED ENTIRE TOWNS. THEN, THEY FORCABLY SETTLED ARABIC PEOPLE IN THE VACATED HOMES AND BUSINESSES. THEY TOOK OVER CHURCHS, CONVERTING THEM INTO MOSQUES. NOT ONE OR TWO, BUT THOUSANDS. THOSE ARMIES SOUGHT OUT MONESTARIES AND, IN COLD BLOOD, MURDERED EVERY SINGLE MONK AND NUN, BURNING BIBLES AND OTHER EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERURE IN A MAD ATTEMPT TO EXTERMINATE AN ENTIRE CULTURE AND PEOPLE. THIS DIDN’T JUST OCCUR IN THE EASTERN ROMAN EMPIRE, IT OCCURRED IN SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, PALESTINE, PARTS OF EGYPT AND ISRAEL. ALL OF THOSE LANDS WERE GREEK AND ROMAN, NOT ONE OF THEM EVERY HAD ANYTHING MORE THAN AN INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY OF ARABIC PEOPLE. THOSE PEOPLE THERE TODAY, ARE THE RESULT OF CONQUESTS, OF MASS MURDER AND ETHNIC CLEANSING ON A SCALE THAT MAKES ANYTHING EVER DONE BY THE WEST PALE. THE CRUSCADES, THAT LATEST BATTLE CRY BY THE ARABIC STREET AND THE SILLY TWITS OF AL QAIDA, WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF ARTROCITIES AND CONQUESTS, OF DELIBERATE DESTRUCTION OF CHRISTIAN HOLY PLACES, OF MASS MURDER, ON THE PART OF CONQUERING ARABIC ARMIES. YOUR “AL-AKSA MOSQUE” WERE BUILT IN 1035 ON THE SITE OF A FAMOUS BYZANTINE CHRISTIAN CHRUCH. THOSE FEW CHRISTIAN'S LEFT ALIVE WE THE SUBJECT OF POGRAMS AND HARRASEMENT THAT GOADED THE WEST INTO AT LEAST GAINING ACCESS TO, IF NOT FREEING, THEIR HOLYEST SITES. TODAY, WESTERNERS DON'T RUN AROUND WITH BOMBS STRAPPED TO THEMSELVES, MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE, THEY DON'T TORTURE AND MURDER MISSIONARIES FROM OTHER RELIGIONS, THEY DON'T FILM SOME MONSTER SAWING THE HEAD OFF AN INNOCENT CONTRACTOR, THEY DON'T MURDER SOME POOR OLD WOMAN FOR MERELY COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING HARRASSED, THEY DON'T SHELL FARMS, THEY DON'T KIDNAP CHILDREN AND DELIBERATELY MURDER THEM. IF YOU ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT INHUMAN ACTS, ABOUT ATROCITIES, LOOK TO YOUR OWN WORLD!
The previous time we boycotted the Olympics it hurt our athletes and had little effect on the policy of the host country (USSR).
If we want to apply sanctions that impact China a better approach would be to boycott or ban imports of "made in China" goods. We have a huge trade imbalance with China so it would also benefit our trade imbalance.
PS to Ahmadinejad & Bollinger - 100s of student protesters are rude to their OWN president ""Why only Columbia? We have questions too" following a protest last December of 1000s of students asking for "Death to the Dictator" http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvTRpNDBGEVeRgwd2cybxqYkTzMg
Boycotting the Olympics would be a mistake. Let China open its borders to the hundreds of thousands who wish to attend the games.
Let foreign visitors for themselves see what China's peaceful rise portends for the world. Let them assess the cost of China's industrialization to the environment. Let them determine whether China is a police state or not.
And, as Burma is an Asian country, let Asians decide whether what is happening in their own backyard merits something stronger in the way of reaction to China.
I read, with regret, over the weekend an article by William Kristol in the WaPo arguing for a strong US policy response in support of Burma...to help the Burmese people of course. Given the disaster that this man's policy recommendations have been to the very people we meant to help in the Middle East, I think we should stand on the sidelines and let others lead.
Did you see the article in the New York times by Stanley Fish ("Why Democracy?")?
The section concerning "Is democracy for everyone?" is one of the points of my first post.
"...The same reasoning applies to the question of whether democracy is good for everyone. It depends on whether you think democracy is the form of government history has been working its way toward (Francis Fukuyama’s thesis in “The End of History”) or is merely one option among others. If you are of the former opinion (as the present administration seems to be), you will believe that the more your adversaries are exposed to democratic ideas, the more attractive they will find them. But if you distrust teleological arguments (as I tend to), you will be skeptical of the possibility of exporting democracy and think of it instead as something others might take or leave, depending on what they hold dear..."
(like subjugation of women, for example)
"...Given that democracy privileges some values — personal mobility, individual entrepreneurialism, tolerance, cosmopolitanism — and downplays others — community, ideological conformity, cultural stability — its attraction will vary with the values a particular society embraces..."
Modern liberalism is struggling with the concept that fundamental human rights is cultural and is therefore something that we cannot change and should not strive to change. In my opinion, this is blatant acceptance of human rights abuses. A completely different approach than the movement of liberals in the 60s-70s where equality and human rights were the driving force behind the movement. To me, you could term it "retreat" liberalism (of course, I'm biased). I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject.
By calling for boycott of the Beijing Olympics, the world would in fact be opting for the easiest way out of this chronic condition in Burma as this will ensure that the countries remain in their comfort zones till the Games are over as, by then, the world would have forgotten all about the sufferings and struggles of Myanmar’s monks and men and their quest for democracy, and the opportunist nations would have drilled millions of gallons of precious oil out of Myanmar’s wells.
This ‘boycotting’ strategy smack of double speak, giving enough window to the world to pretend to be protectors of people’s rights and democracy while supporting and encouraging the brutal military junta of Myanmar all along.
This kind of diplomacy also displays the height of hypocrisy. Why put pressure only on China? Or India for that matter? Why cannot the whole world – united under the banner of the UN – pressurize the Myanmar’s military to relinquish its illegal right to rule and re-instate Aung San Suu Kyi as the legal head of state? For this, however, all the member states – the US in particular - will have to engage China and Russia diplomatically and ensure that they do not exercise their veto in this UN’s mission to establish democracy in Myanmar. … The world needs to understand that a democratic nation is a much more profitable business proposition than a dictator-ruled destination.
I agree with Susenjit Guha. The call by Western Administrations for more sanctions against the regime in Myanmar and encouraging China and India to go along is the height of hypocrisy. The chairman of Total (France) just recently said the company wasn't going to cease operations in Myanmar. Chevron (USA) likewise said the same. Both companies are actually extracting and selling oil from Myanmar at this stage and providing the Myanmar government with much needed revenue. They will be reluctant to pull out unless their respective governments enact legislation to force them to do so. Will that happen when there is so much oil, money and larger geopolitical issues involved? Place your bets...
I agree with Susenjit Guha. The call by Western Administrations for more sanctions against the regime in Myanmar and encouraging China and India to go along is the height of hypocrisy. The chairman of Total (France) just recently said the company wasn't going to cease operations in Myanmar. Chevron (USA) likewise said the same. Both companies are actually extracting and selling oil from Myanmar at this stage and providing the Myanmar government with much needed revenue. They will be reluctant to pull out unless their respective governments enact legislation to force them to do so. Will that happen when there is so much oil, money and larger geopolitical issues involved? Place your bets...
If I'm not mistaken, this military rule started when the army siezed power to crush the leftist movement. Communist China would'nt be the one that supports such a take over.
No, I was being a little cynical. On a previous PG question concerning China, several posters indicated (because of Iraq) that Americans have no "moral authority" to discuss China, and I believe that the question was concerning Darfur, but I can't really remember.
Actually, in reality, I more closely believe what you wrote at the beginning of your post and what BobL wrote at the end of his last post. Iraq winning the Asian soccer cup last July (and the reaction of the Iraqi people) indicates how powerful sports can be.
In your post you start with "let me just say that as an American by birth, I have no moral authority to even comment on this question." and then you start attacking "Liberals". I'm totaly confused. Would you elaborate on how we lost the moral authority? Did "Liberals" do it?
Just exactly WHAT does everyone think will happen, if the Burmese ruling junta were to be cast out, huh? Let us think this through (since nobody bothered to do this with Iraq, now did they?)
Is everyone's sweet little dream for Burma to have Aung San's ethnically Burmese political party take over, (which, btw, is a party that is anti-tourism to begin with-how else is the Burmese economy expected to grow without tourism, huh?)and then, all sweetness and light, and flowers being thrown at the military will occur, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE, ALL THE OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS IN THIS- ARTIFICIALLY- CREATED- BY-BRITAIN LAND-THE SHAN, THE MON, THE KAREN, WILL INSTANTLY LAY DOWN ARMS, AND EMBRACE THE ETHNIC BURMESE PROGRESSIVE PARTY AND DAW AUNG SAN KYI, LIKE LONG-LOST RELATIVES???? IS THAT WHAT YOU IDIOTS THINK IS GONNA HAPPEN? THINK AGAIN!
Oh I know! The idea of an oppressive military junta is innately distateful to everyone-BUT IT ALSO MAY NOT BE AS BAD AS THE ALTERNATIVE-WHICH MAY BE CONTINUOUS CIVIL WAR AND BLOODSHED IN THE STREETS, A TOTAL BREAKDOWN OF LAW AND ORDER, WITH THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE KILLED IN AN INSURGENCY WHICH WILL RUIN WHATEVER ECONOMY THE BURMESE HAVE AT PRESENT!
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (82)
ypwtkfa vawz erzukm dyml arsupkj umwej alrz
December 20, 2007 3:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ypwtkfa vawz erzukm dyml arsupkj umwej alrz
December 20, 2007 3:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ypwtkfa vawz erzukm dyml arsupkj umwej alrz
December 20, 2007 3:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
BobL
People cannot always control events outside their borders. History is littered with peaceful tribes, cultures and nations conquered by non peaceful, aggressive people.
As far as war goes, count me in as believing war will never end. There are so many causes to fight for that I doubt the highest speed computer could list them in a week. When we get done fighting each other (which will never happen), we will fight the Clingons (rightfully)...
October 15, 2007 7:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
This poem dedicated to:
The Tibet nation Leader Dalai Lama, and
all world impotents, so-called "leaders" and including the U.N members, and U.N.S.C members
“Hell World! And Shamed on You!”
Hello World! And Shamed on you!
Supposed not but I must remind you!
In world daylight FOO,
While the world suddenly piled up with POO”!
That the world (and U.N) must not do!
Turning earth-place into an unfortunate smelly ZOO!
As the world always DO!
That I’m going to “PROO”(prove)
To the nasty YOU! the world naive and lazy FOO!
Hello World! and Shamed on you!
1/ While Tibet had needed you!
To confront with barbarous cheenee “CRU"(i.e., cruel)”!
While you behaved as the only “POO”!
And finally left all Tibet(ans) had to “ROO”! (run )!
Like birds headed toward
Places have no more smelly “cheenoos”!
And away from the place fouled with the “monkeys do” (Tibet nation becomes a "monkeys-do" place arrogantly and barbarously invaded by China as a member of UNSC)
Hello World! and Shamed on you!
2/ While the world are made of full with “POO”!
While the world watched Khmer “ROOs”! (Rouges)
Cuting millions throats of innocents in the world daylight of their ZOO!
Called as the Killing (Fields) “FOUs”!
While you only buy the times, sit and “POO”!
And naively let cheenees “FOO”! (fool all of you)!
You, and all your world-“FOOs”! (the world fools)
No more than bunches of global “ZOO’s POOs”!
That (these fools) never know how/what to DO!
For freeing victimized innocent folks trapped in the nasty ZOO! (i.e., Killing Fields)
Laid death more than unfortunate “bird-flued” coocoos (i.e., birds)
Hell World! and Shamed on You!
3/ While you eat, sit, piss, fax, count money and never DO!
While the cheenee was heading into!
Paracel (islands) in the Pacifoo! (Pacific)
To rob islands of the unfortunate Vinoos! (Vietnam)
While you sat dumb like the only “POO”!
Shamelessly, while never did or DO!
To chase off the worst CRU(el) cheenoos! (barbarous Cruel Cheenoos)
That you supposed to DO!
Hello World! Shamed on you!
4/ While you sit, eat, piss, fax, count money and POO!
And never did or DO!
When the cheenee sits and “FOO” (fooling)
The entire kids in the U.N and UNSC ZOOs!
With the everyday filthiest cheenee veetoos! (vetoes)
To inflict deaths (and devastations) to the world ZOO!
While you suppose to evict the cheenee (i.e., the worst-of-all-worst) but U can only POO!!!
Like everybody else can DO!
While unconsciously seeing mankind coping with their never-ended global FOOs!
(from: Conscience-to-the-world /created to memorize and shared bad times with millions of all world victims and deaths in the barbarous ways inflicted my world worst-of-all-worst devils of this rotten planet earth)
October 14, 2007 7:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
JRLR,
Thank you for your kind words. I’m not naïve enough to believe I’ll ever see peace in my life. Our world history has no model for prolonged periods of peace. In fact, history is contrary to peace. Is the basic theme of man’s inhumanity to man something that is in our genetic makeup? Will wars just continue as long as the human race exists? They are tough questions to think about since recorded history has never known anything but war. My naivety may be to think that a Kantian like Perpetual Peace can ever take place. Logically, I like to think it can.
Tom Wonacott,
You’re welcome. I hope you can see we want the same things. We just disagree about how to get there. You might want to amend or expand on your sentence, “I believe that peaceful doesn’t necessarily lead to peace and how that should translate to foreign policy.” If your point is the limited number of times the world has seen something that approaches relative peace it hasn’t lasted I can buy that. However, as written it contradicts itself.
While I would readily concede I don’t know if my approach will work the one thing I’m sure of is that your approach has a history of over 5,000 years of just producing more conflict.
October 14, 2007 1:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
BobL-VA writes: "The question we struggle with is how to promote our point of view. Most liberals argue vehemently this should be done through example, education and sanctions when necessary. We argue that fighting for peace makes about as much sense as having sex to preserve virginity."
BobL-VA, I found your latest post remarkable. I am not sure I would consider myself a "liberal", yet I support your views to a very large extent.
I just want to complement what you have written with the following excerpt, from Mahedy's "Out Of The Night", discussing healing and the just war:
"The nation that believes itself to be morally correct in all that it does would do well to learn from the bitter anguish of those who fell from grace while doing its bidding.
The Vietnam soldiers forced America to face the fact that war is primarily a moral issue. It is really a series of individual moral acts, some good and some evil, but all partaking of the sinfulness of war itself. The myth of glorious war rings hollow after Vietnam. War in the cause of virtue makes as much sense now as it does sex for the sake of virginity. Sergeant Stryker and Rambo still flicker across our screens, but after Vietnam, they are as real as Alice in Wonderland."
I suggest we remember the above, if only out of respect for that new generation of Vets, most of whom have yet to return from Iraq and Afghanistan, and begin their own long, so lonely, horribly painful and too often hopeless, endless journey "out of the night".
Shall we have the courage to be the least compassionate, when the time comes? For like it did last time, it will come, soon enough!
Regards
October 14, 2007 12:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
BobL
We have different philosophies when foreign policy is the topic. On the positive side, we agreed on the PG prostitution question, so we do have some common ground. Where we differ is that I believe that peaceful doesn’t necessarily lead to peace and how that should translate to foreign policy.
Diplomacy, incentives and sanctions don’t always lead to peace but should definitely be the starting point. However, in some instances sanctions can be as destructive as war and be ineffective in producing change (Iraq). In some instances, sanctions are diluted so much (at the UN) that they are ineffective simply because the parties with veto power disagree politically (Iran). To me, diplomacy is more effective if backed by a strong military with a credible threat to use the military, in other words, negotiate from a position of strength. Appeasement may embolden an aggressor while attempting to avoid war.
Ethnic cleansing, mass murder, rape and genocide (Rwanda, Congo, Bosnia, Sudan etc.) occur because the perpetrator believes they can act with impunity, and in most cases, if we view the world today and in the past, they are right (Darfur).
Thanks for the response.
October 14, 2007 9:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Let the athletes run. Every time a democratic nation places first second or third they have a platform to speak to the world on human rights.
Actually the olympics could not arrive at a better time. The spotlight will shine on China's dark corners of human abuse.
October 13, 2007 11:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Let the athletes run. Every time a democratic nation places first second or third they have a platform to speak to the world on human rights.
Actually the olympics could not arrive at a better time. The spotlight will shine on China's dark corners of human abuse.
October 13, 2007 11:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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October 13, 2007 6:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Tom Wonacott,
I hate having to rewrite these posts, but when the PG web site gobbles them up into cyberspace there is little choice.
There is little doubt that the ultimate goal is free and open societies on this planet. Hopefully, along with free and open societies peace and a respect for basic human rights and needs will naturally follow. So far I think there is very little difference between the conservative and liberal ideology.
The problem that obviously arises is that at this time not all countries are interested in free and open societies. That’s the dilemma we face in our foreign policy on a daily basis. Islamic States would be a classic example. Any nation run by a fundamental religious sect is by nature contrary to free and open societies and are poster children for why church and state should be separate. Factor into this equation the number of despotic regimes in the third world and a massive country like China that is moving towards freedom at a snails pace and you have a high percentage of the world’s population living under systems we find objectionable.
The question we struggle with is how to promote our point of view. Most liberals argue vehemently this should be done through example, education and sanctions when necessary. We argue that fighting for peace makes about as much sense as having sex to preserve virginity. Killing people never produces peace. It only produces a temporary end to a conflict one way or the other. WWII didn’t produce peace, it only ended Hitler’s threat in Europe and the Japanese threat in SE Asia. About 100 million people have died in conflicts since the end of WWII. That’s not peace. Wars don’t result in peace. To date they have only resulted in more wars and conflicts. In the absence of an act of war committed against us that cycle needs to change if we really are interested in the world becoming a freer and more open place to live.
Any assertion that the vast majority of liberals embrace ideologies contrary to the goal of free and open societies is patently false. No one, but a sick pervert, would want to hug a Bin Laden or anyone like him. He is a heinous criminal and should be hunted down like a dog and either given an early exit from life or tried for his crimes and then given an early exit. That we invaded Afghanistan was something just about every liberal agreed with. Afghanistan committed an act of war against the US by aiding and abetting Bin Laden. We have every right to defend ourselves from these types of attacks and I supported Bush’s use of military intervention. I have been very disappointed with the way he prosecuted the campaign and the results, but I supported the concept. Personally, I would have gone in with a much larger force and would have done a great deal more damage to the country. I then would have pulled out as quickly as I went in there and told the remaining people who they choose as their government is up to them, but if they commit another act of war against us to start stocking up on food in the caves because that could well be the only safe spots in the country. See, even liberals take attacks on our country seriously.
As to the argument that the terrorists win if we act like them. I partially agree. If we believe in human rights then just because someone else doesn’t believe in them doesn’t give us the right or duty to then also breach them. I know, you’ve heard the torture issue before. However, I can’t get away from it as it defines who we are as a society. Torture is barbaric. Whether some sicko group in the ME is responsible for it or we are it is no less sadistic or barbaric. It then defines what and who we are. Good people never torture. On other issues like strategy it is incumbent on us to change and evolve strategies to protect ourselves without trampling all over human rights issues. Much as radical groups are constantly changing strategies. Let them continue to act in barbaric and sadistic ways until we can hunt them down and make them pay for their crimes against humanity.
In conclusion, assuming free and open societies are our goal we need to promote this goal by example. We need to encourage countries we would currently view as not free and open to move in that direction and sanction countries who act contrary to moving in this direction. At the same time we need to protect ourselves from as much harm as possible without engaging in human rights violations and invasions of other countries that have not committed an act of war against us. Maybe, if we’re lucky, we’ll see our goal realized in a few hundred years. Social change still moves very slowly.
October 13, 2007 10:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without them, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally, and let them host as friends without all the entangled political b.s. rolling down from the top, and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
October 12, 2007 9:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without sports, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally without all the entangled political b.s., and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
October 12, 2007 9:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without them, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally without all the entangled political b.s., and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
October 12, 2007 9:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
-"Politics should not interfere with sports, for whatever cause, no matter how good it is."
Very well put. For without them, how would've Jesse Owens disproved the myth Hitler's 'Aryan Superman?' Things like that. And it was unfortunate that the U.S. and the Soviets boycotted each other over political reasons as well.
China is going to be well... China. I don't condone what China does, but this Olympics gives the world and them a chance to interact peacefully and personally without all the entangled political b.s., and that's worth more than any 'boycott/sanction' or preaching from our soapboxes could ever do.
October 12, 2007 9:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
tom wonacott,
I did respond to your post, but PG gobbled it up and is holding it for review I'm gussing t's a right wing conspiracy agaomst us liberals. Anyway if they don't post it by morning I'll try again.
October 12, 2007 7:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Few thoughts to the entire world civilization:
Hello World!
Needless to say, all mankind have long known that China is definitely the-worst-of-all-worst and odorous culprit to stay in the dark to push the Khmer Rouges trained and supported by red China to murder their own Khmer innocents not very long ago in Cambodia!
And now the world has seen again Red or Bloody China has backed up the iron-fisted, bloody Burmese murdering regime volunteered-slaves and trained of China to wildly kill, kidnap, torture, and terrorize their own peace-loving, innocent Burmese citizens who only apply peaceful means to ask for freedom and democracy and no more and no less!
The world has to wake up to recognize that:
CHINA IS ONLY THE-WORST-OF-ALL-WORST, MOST DANGEROUS,VERY TREACHEROUS, MONSTROUS DEVIL OF THE ENTIRE WORLD TO RELENTLESSLY DO HARMS OF ALL SORTS AND APPLYING ALL SORTS OF FILTHY AND AGAINST-ALL-MANKIND WORKS TO KEEP GLOBALLY MURDEROUS REGIMES TO BECOME A BUNCH OF VOLUNTEERED SLAVES TO SERVE BLOODY CHINA! AND AT THE SAME TIME THESE MURDEROUS REGIMES OR VOLUNTEERED SLAVES FOR CHINA CAN HARVEST ALL WEALTH FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND NATIONS FOR THEMSELVES LIKE RULING PIRATES AND ALWAYS BEING BACKED UP BY CHINA IN THE UNSC WITH VETOES IN THE FRONT EYES OF THE ENTIRE WORLD CIVILIZED NATIONS!
IN ESSENCE, THE WORLD-WITHOUT-CHINA IS DEFINITELY A BETTER, SAFER, LESS-TROUBLES AND MORE CIVILIZED WORLD FOR ALL MANKIND TO LIVE IN HARMONY!
NEEDLESS TO SAY, CHINA IS DEFINITELY WORLD-TROUBLEMAKER, AN UNCIVILIZED NATION AND NO MORE AND NO LESS, WHERE BUNCHES OF CHINESE MURDERERS VOTED-BY-NO-BODY IN CHINA HOPPED INTO POWER AND SADLY ENSLAVING THEIR OWN UNFORTUNATED 1.5 BILLIONS CHINESE PEOPLE LIKE SLAVES INDEFINITELY AND HOPELESSLY AND NO MORE AND NO LESS THAT ENTIRE WORLD HAVE SEEN FOR TOO LONG!
FOR THE GOOD SAKE, THE WORLD BY ALL MEANS HAS TO KICK CHINA OUT OF THE U.N.S.C DUE TO CHINA HAS BROUGHT SO MUCH ODOROUS AND UNCIVILIZED CHINESE-WAY OF ANIMAL-LIKE HABITS AND BEHAVIOUR INTO THE U.N.S.C AND MAKING THIS PLACE TURNING INTO A TRASH-LIKE OR GARBAGED PLACE TO FORCE THE ENTIRE WORLD TO SMELL THE ILL-SMELLING CHINA ODOR!
IN SUMMARY, CHINA REPRESENTS AN ODOROUS OBJECT OR GARBAGE-LIKE NOBODY-WANTS-TO-STAY-CLOSE CREATURE IN THIS WORLD AND FORCES THE WHOLE WORLD TO SMELL THIS ILL-SMELLING ODOUR AND SEE THIS FILTHINESS!
Needless to say, China the only nation in this world nation that kills its own citizens by mass-executions for harvesting chinese body-parts for human-body-parts transplanting businesses networks domestically and internationally to make good money for themselves! This China is the only nation in the world has this most un-civilize and animal-like way fo making money! that the entire world have seen for so many years up to now! and this kind of most barbarous Chinese-business that can only be found in China! the place of human-like monsters to exploit lives and dead bodies of their own chinese and being treated exactly as cheap as animals on thier own land!
Therefore, all civilized world citizens have to recognize that China is exactly "the-worst-of-all- worst" devil of this planet earth that we have to live with!
WHO ON EARTH CAN PROVE THE ABOVE FACTS ARE NOT TRUE? AND PLEASE DO!
Sincerely
TTT
October 12, 2007 7:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To: The World Civilizations
From: Conscience-to-the-world
Subject: "I Wish To Show You"
Hello World:
If U have few minutes, then pls. read this:
Question: “SOME POPULAR REASONS OF WHY THE WORLD CHAOS & CONFLICTS NEVER CEASE?”
A-1: “Greedy-and-bad-deeds” always are in conflicts with “good-deeds” and “greedy-and-bad-deeds”
always corrupt and easily take controls the “good-deeds”; while “good-deeds” are so hard to
preserve and easily to fade away!.
A-2: World-devils are always in conflicts with angels, and unfortunately, devils always try to trick others
by means of showing, proving others that angels are world worst devils, while the angels have no
capability to prove themselves as genuine angels to the rest of naive world-bystanders, naive
non-believers are sitting for accusing and complaining and crying, while these folks cannot protect
themselves from devastations of all sorts, caused by devils due to lacking of intelligence.
A-3: World devils have always evolved faster to do harms than angels that they can master new ways of
fighting back the evolving devils that is exactly like in the nature where germs evolve to fight new
drugs being manufactured.
A-4: World lacks of right and effective leader(s) who supposed to possess all necessary own resources
and his/their dedicated deeds such as: the real-time, harmonious, most-creative-and-long-visionary,
most-effective-and-down-to-earth mind, deeds, intelligence and evolving/mutable strategies and
resources and times, etc., to fight and/or set new plans/strategies/tactics to confront devils
physically or mentally or both.
A-5: Disturbances of own down-hearted/saddened citizens and local and global down-hearted stirrers,
Disbelievers and naives or short-tempered-and-can-do-nothing folks to join in to spoil or devastate
all feasible fighting plans against world devils and make all good-deeds growing foul.
A-6: World full with strayed and selfishness sheep/rabbits as non-cooperative nations that they can only
apply safest self-protective tactics as hiding under world-devils shadows by shying away from
world common problems and eagerly hiding away from any possible threatening, retaliation,
revenges problems that will be given arrogantly by world-devils.
A-7: World Laws and Orders and Justices have no one to take care of properly! While world-conscience
Seems has no place to stay and while world bad-deeds have been greatly prospered and constantly
being fooled by “illusionating” by devils to achieve their goals and profit themselves.
A-8: Etc.., and many, many more...
(summarized/simplified by: “Conscience-to-the-world”, 2007/10/12)
Thanks to all.
Conscience-to-the-world
October 12, 2007 3:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
we should tell the Burma government that they must allow full play of democracy . It is barbarian to keep people deprived of their liberties.
All democratic countries should blockade Burma like the world did in South Africa till Nelson Mandella was released.
October 12, 2007 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
BobL
I’ve heard the torture issue for the last 13 months on this site, so I wasn’t really asking you about the (so called) torture.
From Stanley Fish (again, so you don't have to wade through all the "Conscience-to-the-World" post):
“…But if you distrust teleological arguments (as I tend to), you will be skeptical of the possibility of exporting democracy and think of it instead as something others might take or leave, depending on what they hold dear…
...Given that democracy privileges some values — personal mobility, individual entrepreneurialism, tolerance, cosmopolitanism — and downplays others — community, ideological conformity, cultural stability — its attraction will vary with the values a particular society embraces..."
In my opinion, probably based on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (but that's just a guess)), he has concluded:
1. You cannot force democracy on other societies. You’ve said it many times and other posters have said the same thing. I’m not going to argue that point too much. It certainly will not happen overnight that’s for sure, but Chile, South Korea and Taiwan are now democratic after being ruled under a military dictatorship for some time. India has been a democracy since it’s birth ( I can see MikeB’s face coming through my screen as I say that) but still is trying to get rid of the caste system, and other human rights abuses. Democratization does not happen overnight, that’s for sure, but I believe it can happen given the right circumstances.
2. This is the part that I take exception to and believe that liberals (today, not traditionally) would tend to accept.
“democracy…others might take or leave, depending on what they hold dear…”
In other words, not all cultures necessarily want democracy. The values of a liberal democracy such as free speech, freedom of the press, protection of minority rights (a very powerful ingredient in liberal, western democracies), gender equality and so on are cultural.
He implies that culture defines human rights and that we should accept (and I believe that is what he is saying) cultural differences - even at the expense of human rights. In my opinion, what Stanley Fish is really advocating is a cleverly disguised policy of “appeasement”. Whether it is communism, Nazism or radical Islam (Islamofascism), plain and simple, they are totalitarian movements that are far inferior to western Democracies - especially concerning human rights and, as such, acceptance of these movements as cultural is totally misguided.
Michael Gerson, Washington Post, Wednesday, October 10, wrote an interesting article concerning traditional conservatism (you may have read it) in which he states:
“…A conservatism that warns against utopianism and calls for cultural sensitivity is useful. When it begins to question the importance or existence of moral ideals in politics and foreign policy, it is far less attractive…It argues that the most basic human rights will remain insecure as long as they are a gift or concession of the state -- that natural rights must ultimately be protected by self-government. And this ideology asserts that most people in all places, even the poor and oppressed, are capable of controlling their own affairs and determining their own rulers…”
How does Stanley Fish explain that 8,000,000 Iraqis risked their lives to VOTE on three different occasions? That is some protest against democratization! This happened in a part of the world that we all agree is probably the most difficult to democratize.
From Stanley Fish's article:
"...If terrorists can maneuver democracies into employing tactics indistinguishable from theirs, it could be argued that they have won no matter what the outcome on the battlefield..."
To me, terrorist have won when our foreign policy reflects an acceptance of these movements as cultural and morally equivalent.
I'm interested in your thoughts on Stanley's article.
October 12, 2007 8:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
(revised)
Dedicated to the world:
(Wishing to show the world that world citizens are all in a wrongly “melting pot”!)
(Ref: “A BRIEF ANALYSIS ON GLOBALLY ACCUMULATED MISTAKES”(Next time))
"Hello World!"
Hello world!
I wish to tell just you!
That you’ve always found wrong way and heading into!
As you always DO!!!
And making the entire world just as a ZOO!
Or going “COOCOO”!
(“coocoo” slang means go crazy)
While no-one wished being as a “FOU”!
(“fou” in French means crazy in English)
But you’ll always DO!
Hello world!
Wish someday that only you!
Will find ways getting out of (your own) “FOU”!
(“fou” French also means “foolishness” or craziness in English)
And finally,
self-discovered as only a crazy “POO”!
And what now will you have to do?
...
“POO”?
...
Or (?)
“COOCOO”?
Or(?).
Listening only?
Well! But please do not “POO”!
That you make me “FOU”!
As you always DO!!!
And again!
Make the whole world “POO”!
Crazily like....
In a lasting ZOO!!!
October 12, 2007 1:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To the entire World:
A poem dedicated to the entire world:
Hello World! You must know that we are all wrong! and we are in the wrong track! That’s I’m going to tell you why?
(I wish to show the world that we are all wrong! ???)
Hello world!
I wish to tell now with you!
That you’re always found the wrong way heading into!
As you always do!
And make entire world as a zoo!
Or going “coocoo”!
(“coocoo” means go crazy)
That no one wish as the “fous”
(“fous” in French means the crazies in English)
But you do!
Hello world!
I wish someday that only you!
Will find ways to get out of your own “fou”!
(“fou” French means “foolishness” or craziness in English)
As only finally self-discovered a crazy “poo”!
Now what you will have to do!
Is only to listen and please do not “poo”
That you will make me “fou”
Like you always do!
(from: conscience-to-the-world)
October 11, 2007 7:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Tom Wonacott,
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you, but I've been out of town and computerless.
Let's see you wrote and asked the following,
"Modern liberalism is struggling with the concept that fundamental human rights is cultural and is therefore something that we cannot change and should not strive to change. In my opinion, this is blatant acceptance of human rights abuses. A completely different approach than the movement of liberals in the 60s-70s where equality and human rights were the driving force behind the movement. To me, you could term it "retreat" liberalism (of course, I'm biased). I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject."
Just out of curiousity if I told you the moon was made out of cream cheese would you believe me? Of course not. Why would you think the modern liberal movement had it's roots in human rights issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sure, you can find references to human rights issues, but it wasn't the basis of the movement or even that important of an issue.
What you see today are evolved positions from Roosevelt's New Deal movement. The New Deal had nothing to do with international human rights. It had everything to do with getting America back on it's feet economically. The 60's and 70's liberal movement was in response to what was viewed as an unjust war in Vietnam. Yes, there was some of the poor Vietnamese syndrome going on, but that was more in response to the thought of young Americans going over and dying in rice paddies. Out of this phase of the liberal movement came civil rights, womens rights and maybe unfortunately that everyone in this country is fair game to be investigated for just about anything.
As for the human rights issue of course liberals and conservatives alike will at least pay lip service to the issue. It's almost like asking people if they believe beating children is wrong. The vast majority will obviously say yes and do very little to nothing when they see their neighbors spanking their kids.
As an American I can't control what China, India, Russia, etc., etc. do. I can try to influence it, but I can't really control it. I can also publically state I'm not in favor of actions that are obvious human rights violations. Finally, I would like to live my life in my country showing the world we practice what we preach. I want laws in this country making human rights violations completely against the law here. I wish this was the case currently, but alas it is not. The torture issue bothers me more then the so called war on terrorism. Yes, the world has some nasty people in it and they probably deserve an early exit from life. However, translating that premise into torturing people in our custody makes me sick and ashamed to be a member of a society that would act in such a barbaric manner. I know Bush claims he doesn't torture, but then again he won't define torture and there are few people on this planet that don't believe it is going on. In essence under the guise of national security we are committing human rights violations each and every single day over this issue alone and that's not showing the world we believe in human rights. I know the arguments for and against this type of policy and as a matter of principle I'm horrified we're engaging in these types of activities. This is a human rights issue I can have some input over as I will vote for anyone who says they will stop these policies. Republican or Democrat.
October 11, 2007 8:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why is it Burma Only? Let there be a Charter of Democracy signed by all the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council to bring democracy to all the relevant countries.
October 11, 2007 7:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why is it Burma only? Let democracy prevail everywhere.
October 11, 2007 7:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Dedicated to Madame Aung San Suu Kyi, a Nobel Laureate, a World heroine, an Angel of The World, a world Democratic Teacher, a courageous Lady carrying THE LANTERN OF WOLRD CONSCIENCE TO LIGHTEN UP THE WORLD DARKESS INFESTED BY DEVILS, YELLOW COBRA, LAND-PIRATES, MURDEROUS HUMAN-LIKE DEVILS AND VAMPIRES.
“I wish being with you”
I wish being with you, at moments while can no longer stop to cry!
I wish being with you!
Beside your comrades, friends, full with blood and die!
I wish being with you!
sharing the coldness and loneliness in several endless nights!
I wish being with you!
For collecting teardrops falling from whom who can be hiding and sit to pray!
I wish to sit beside!
To a saddened hearts of someone having no more teardrops to cry!
I wish to serve a night!
With whom with a last hope as can only sit and pray!
I also wish the sadness soon will fade away!
On the eyes of Madame Aung San Suu Kyi,
a lonely World Angel, a lonely World Heroine, an endless World Suffering Symbol
Of our mankind!
That she can only hope and cry!
(from: Conscience-to-the-world, a souvenir of the sad moment of human history, 2007/10/11)
October 11, 2007 1:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Beijing has been most helpful with regard to North Korea, and that was achieved without a boycott. A boycott will only make the Chinese feel persecuted-- such an action will only fall into the hands of those hardline elements of the CCP who most dislike and distrust us.
October 10, 2007 10:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This poem dedicated to Dalai Lama, a Leader of the world recognized, sovereign Tibet Nation suddenly forcibly pirated by chinese ruling tyrants and thieves in the eyes of all mankind
“I Wish To Share with You”
Dear Dalai Lama! I wish to share with you!
While you have no place to stay!
While Tibet is suddenly become so far away!
As your beloved nation sudden swapped by the Yellow Cobrey!
In the style of world pirates only come to stay!
Dear Dalai Lama! I wish to pray with you!
For Tibet!
And will be someday returned back and stay!
With you and all Tibetans motherland-seekers!
While:
Innocents have no place to stay and pray! (as before)
Wandering and floating like wind like birds in heavenly blue sky!
Like Tibet citizens have no place
and chosen unwanted life
Of the world wanderers, downhearted refugees
Night will come and night will go!
But you still try finding a place to hide
Your tired body and mind from summer heat, rain, snow of the sky!
But no matter how much you will pray!
Chinese murderers/thieves will continue want to stay!
In the land of Tibet, a beloved land, given from your dad yesterday!
To you to care and no longer can be reached
with your lonely arms but only love!
(from: Conscience-to-the-world, 2007/10/10)
October 10, 2007 5:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Mohamed Allam
In 1948 650'000 palestinian refugees were recorded whilst about 700'000 jews were expelled or left the arab countries.
The United Nations created the UNRWA to help the palestinian refugees but no help was envisaged for the jewish refugees.
Today there are no jewish refugees whilst millions of palestinian refugees still live in refugee camps.
From 1948 to 1967 the West Bank and Gaza were under arab control - why did they not decide to create a Palestinian state.
History can always be interpreted according to each one's subjective reasons - however facts remain facts.
October 10, 2007 5:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
A Poem to the sleeping world:
“While the World is sleeping”
While the world is sleeping,
Outside, in the dark, where no light of conscience exists
Hungry wolves, Yellow Cobra and gobblers are wandering
While the world is sleeping,
In the dark outside, where no laws and justices are found
Due to conscience has flown away
And left the human misery behind
For the world children to cry (fool)
While the world sky is still dark
And human-like vampires, devils are gathering and playing
With deaths and human misery of
all unfortunate innocents and victimized naives
Who only could only hope and believed in miracle
But it never comes!
While the world sky is still dark and the world is still sleeping
Treachery, illusion and evil deeds have well blended
To form sugar-coated poison pills to be given
To more new naive world children to try by
the world devils outside in the dark and in the wild
Of the conscienceless killing rampages
Masterminded by all human-like vampires
While the world sky is still dark...
Human conscience can only cry!
While the world is still dark..
(from: “Conscience-to-the-world” /2007/10/10)
October 10, 2007 1:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to
BTMPost :
Dear first you read i have mentioned killed and dispalced .go and see the number of refugee from palestine as cited by international organisation of refugee and add the killed during israel encroachment and occupation from 1917 till today.
October 10, 2007 3:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To all world weapon designers, inventors, researchers and developers:
NO WEAPONS THAT HUMAN BEING HAVE DEVELOPED IN THIS WORLD UP TO THIS TIME CAN MAKE ALL ENEMIES CRAWLING IN FRONT OF YOUR FEET LIKE THE INNOCENT WORMS AND CRY FOOL TO ASK FOR YOUR MERCY AND FORGIVENESS AND FAVOURS!
EXCEPT:
THE NEWEST WEAPON AS SO-CALLED: "THE TOTAL BOYCOTTS OF ALL CONCEIVABLE MEANS AND GLOBALLY" WEAPON THAT CAN BE USED BY ALL SOLIDIFIED, UNITED COUNTRIES TO APPLY ON A ARROGANT AND DISASTROUS ENEMY OR A WORLD DEVASTATOR OR EVEN MORE THAN ONE!
THIS IS A MUCH MORE CIVILIZED AND ELEGANT AND NO-KILLING-AT-ALL WEAPON WILL COST YOU EVEN A SINGLE BULLET OR BOMB TO BE DELIVERED TO PUT DOWN AN ENEMY AND MAGNIFICALLY AND AUTOMATICALLY IT CAN MAKE THE MONSTER OR ENEMY TO CRAWL AND WILL SERVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU DEMAND!
please test this wondeful most civilized weapon and kill no one but can make a bad guy or bad nation to self-transform into a good guy or a good nation volunteeredly to live nicely with the rest of the intire civilized world!
Pls. someone should experiment this "super civilized weapon" with China or Russia and see the immediate effect as it will start crawling on the next morning!
thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
October 9, 2007 8:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
QUESTION TO THE WORLD:
Q: "SHOULD THE WORLD KEEPS DANCING WITH THE RED OR BLOODY CHINA?"
ANSWER-1: "WHO ON EARTH CAN AFFORD TO DANCE WITH A NEVER STOP-EATING WOLF?"
ANSWER-2: "EVEN RUSSIAN WHILE SEEING CHINESE COMING TO THEIR LAND! THEY START TO PANIC AND CRY: "VOFVES ARE COMING! WOLVES ARE COMING TO KILL AND WIPE OUT THEIR SHEEPS!"
THE REST ANSWERS WILL BE GIVEN TO ALL MANKIND TO ANWER THEMSELVES AND POSE SOME EXPERIENCE WHILE DEALING WITH CHINA AND CHINESE WOLVES!
ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM ANYONE IN THIS WORLD ASKED?
HAVE A GOOD DAY! AND WATCH OUT FOR WOLVES OR YELLOW COBRA CAN DO HARMS TO YOU BUDDIES!
IN ESSENCE, THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL DISCOVER THAT THEY LEARN A DEERLY LESSON WHILE PLAYING WITH CHINA! BECAUSE THEY WILL SOON DISCOVER THEMSELVES THAT THEY ARE ALL ROBBED VICTIMS OR TRICKED VICTIMS OR ALL LOSERS! NEVER GAIN ANYTHING WHILE PLAYING WITH CHINEE!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
October 9, 2007 2:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hello world:
"Please look into Burma to see Madame Aung San Suu Kyu, a noblest and courageous lady who has told to the entire world that: " You are only all useless and hopeless floks to contront with the devils: Burma and China thugs or tyrants! And all of you guys! you have owned me too much suffering and tortures physically and mentally that I have to receive and absorb for so many years in the iron-fisted, bloody hands of Burmese murderous thugs trained and supported by Chinese thugs always staying behind the scene to inflict deaths and devastations to innocents worldwide!"
The entire world should learn to use their conscience and not to learn counting money only and forgotten conscience while counting money and putting into their thirsty pockets while innocents have been murdered in the daylight!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: CONSCIENCE-TO-THE-WORLD | October 8, 2007 2:35 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 14:35 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
Hello World:
"Please look into Tibet nation occupied by the filhty and shameless, odorous China to see unfortunated Tibetans who have been suffered and murdered systematically by the chinese land-thieves and see Dalai Lama a Tibet monk who has to run for his life to live like a countryless individual in India! All human crimes as invading soveignty of the Tibet nation , to the murdering to Tibetans all done by the single uggliest China the so-called "the-worst-of-all-worst" in this planet earth! and no one including all world leaders have paid attention or done anything in order to force China to return the Tibet nation back to all Tibet people up to this time!"
This is the global shame that all nankind have to bear and seen China spits on all nankindd faces! Shame! Shanme! shame! to all mankind! that we all have been received by the Chin
In summary, the entire world have owned all Tibetians so much of suffering from losses of lives to loss of sovereingty of a nation called Tibet!
The whole world have to feel ashamed to see Dalai Latma has no country to live now! and all Tibetians have to become countryless wanderers or refugees worldwide!
Please let conscience lead all world citizens out of the world darkness created by red or bloody China for too long!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 3:07 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 15:07 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
Hello World:
"Please look into Tibet nation occupied by the filthy and shameless Red or Bloody China to see all unfortunate Tibetans who are suffered and murdered systematically by the Chinese thieves and to see Dalai Lama a Tibet monk who has to run for his life to live like a countryless individual in India! All human crimes such as from the invading sovereignty of Tibet nation , to the murdering to numerous Tibetans all have been done by the single China the worst of all worst barbarous human-like creature in this planet earth! and unfortunately, no one including all world leaders have done anything to force China to return the Tibet nation back to all Tibetan people up to now!"
In summary, the entire world have owned all Tibetans so much suffering of all kinds from losses of lives to loss of sovereignty of a world recognized nation called as Tibet!
The whole world have to feel ashamed with their conscience while seeing Dalai Lama who suddenly has no country to live in presently! and all Tibetans have to be forcibly become the countryless wanderers or refugees worldwide!
Finally, Please let the conscience leads you! The entire world citizens! in order to be able to get out of the world and odorous darkness created by red or bloody China for too long!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 3:30 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 15:30 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
Hello World:
If U have time! then please think about this:
"THE ENTIRE WORLD SHOULD ABANDON IDEA OF CONTINUEING VOLUNTEERLY DANCING WITH THE WORST OF ALL WORST YELLOW COBRA, WHICH HAS NEVER CEASED TO INFLICT DEATHS AND DISASTERS TO ALL WORLD INNOCENTS! AS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN CAMBODIA THE KILING FIELDS,INVADED AND OCCUPIED TIBET NATION, VIETNAM, INDIA, INNER-MONGOLIA NATION, DARFUR, AFRICA,N. KOREA AND MOST RECELTY AS IN BURMA NATION"
Needless to say, Red China or Bloody China is the everybody known as the only culprit to innitiate global disasters of all sorts as mentioned above and always cowardly staying behind the scene and never failed to exploit shamelessly the U.N.S.C to create more havoc to the entire world!
Finally, it is the time, the whole world have to wake up and chase the world worst devil China out of the entire corners of the world and return it to its own land so-called communist China enjoy themselves and to plan all murderous deeds at home but not the world, such as: harvesting its mass-executed chinese human body-parts from its mass-executing citizens for chinese organ transplants businesses at home! and leave the whole world alone! And with these evil human organs harvesting businesses that may lead to all enslaved 1.5 billion chinese will soon to learn how to react and re-take controls of this China, the land of deaths and murdering and mass-executions in large scale and secrecy!
Pls. let 1.5 billions chinese to dictate their own fates, their own nation China and their own blood-thirsty tyrants!. Otherwise, they will never have a chance to set them free and to become free citizens! Otherwise these folks will forever to be only the slaves for their own thugs domestically!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Thanks
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 5:58 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 17:58 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
What the world needs now?
1/Conscience and minimal of trading-murdering-for-wealth
2/Democracy, freedom, liberty
3/Free-from devil China and its murderous and secret deeds spreading and illusionating the naive world
4/A cleaner and more civilzed world including a cleaner U.N, U.N.S.C.
5/ A new U.N law to evict/remove/punish immediately any murderous UNSC member intended to inflict deaths and devastations to the world like China presently
6/ A world with least hatred caused by evil religion and its illusion, blood-thirsty tyrants
7/ A world combined by all responsible countries to promote peace, democracy, freedom, liberty but not murderous activities for self-interest!
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 6:44 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 18:44 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
To the world:
As U all know!
Every conscious individual in this world should have all opportunities to show others: WHO IS THE BAD GUY? AND WHO IS THE GOOD MAN!
Otherwise, the world will continue living in the darkness of confusion of all sorts tricked by devils, such as China in the U.N.S.C now!
thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 7:10 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 19:10 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
To The World:
It seems to be the time for all good nations in the world to dissmantle tue U.N.S.C!
Why?
Because this organization is full of Chinese garbages to systematically be brought in by China and Russia as well to foul up this place as a odorous place in the U.N in front of all noses of all mankind!
Pls. trash the UNSC and make a new one without China and Russia troublemakers for the good sake of the entire world!
Any questions asked? or it doesnot make sense to you for any conceiveable reason? oer even or own conscience?
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
Posted by: Conscience-to-the-world | October 8, 2007 7:18 PM
Posted on: October 8, 2007 19:18 | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world:
The World Conscience:
Hello world!
If U have few free minutes, then pls. read this:
The entire world should vote and choose Madame Aung San Suu Kyi to become the second highest U.N leader in the U.N in order to work best and share all world responsibility with the present U.N leader in order to let Madame Aung San Suu Kyi to order China and its volunteered slaves Burmese ruling thugs or tyrants to learn how to behave like valueable individuals and return Burma and Tibet back to the Burmese and Tibetan citizens respectively!
Also, she and the present U.N leader can order and call in all world nations to vote to dismantle/trash the existing U.N, and U.N.S.C and re-establish or re-create the brand new U.N and U.N.S.C without the needs of the existence of the valuelessly, murderously bloody China and Russia the only valuable as the so-called world troubemakers!
In summary, the entire world should reunite together to force the U.N to trash/jeopardize itself and its useless UNSC and rebuild entirely the brand new UN and UNSC from bottom up and to make new rules, regulations and orders as to contribute by all world nations in order to be able to evict and kick out immediately all troublemakers that could hide inside the new and well-cleaned UNSC if making troubles to any nations in the world, or inflicting deaths and destructions to their own citizens such as invading and occupying lands of other nations like in Tibet, Vietnam, India, Inner-Mongolia, etc. or in Burma presently, that Red or Bloody China has done to the world in front of naked eyes of all mankind in this planet earth as an example!
This suggestion/recommendation should be sent to all world leaders and UN and UNSC as well! And Hoping the World Laws and Orders will descend on this planet earth soon!
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world & TTT
October 9, 2007 12:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Conscience-to-the-world :
Hello world!
If U have times then please read this:
"If you spent most of time to fulfill your obligation as to fill up your own forever thirsty pockets with money while seeing innocents who have been chased and shot to death in the daylight in Burma, in Tibet, in Darfur, in Venezuela, in Iran, in Syria, in Chechnya, in China then your filled-up pockets that seem to only keep money related to the blood of innocents in such lands! And that related directly to your efforts as too much time to focuse on money- counting while forgotten or leaving conscience being left outside the fences hundred yards away from you buddies! In other words, I wish to remind world citizens to stay away from devils and do not feed the devils to allow them to devaste their own innocents such as it is happening in Burma and/or elsewhere in this world! in order to minimize killing to be victimized by innocents worldwide! And also, pls. stop the popular habit as to dance with the Yellow Cobra as usual to reduce suffering that the Yellow Cobra of the world could continue to inflict more deaths to world innocents!
On my own, I only wish to see all Tibetans to have chance to return to live in peace and happiness in their own Tibet a world well recognized sovereign nation in the past and suddenly stolen by chinese pirates or thugs!
And China has to return Tibet nation back to Tibetans or face the entire world BOYCOTTS OF ALL FORMS: SUCH AS COMMERCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, POLITICALLY, DIPLOMATICALLY, AND ALL POSSIBLE SORTS OF BOYCOTTS SUCH AS: BOYCOTTING ALL MADE IN CHINA PRODUCTS WORLDWIDE! AND STOP IMPORT AND EXPORT ALL RAW MATERIALS FROM AND TO CHINA AND TO LET CHINA TO LIVE WITH ITSELF IN THIS PLANET EARTH ALONE! ETC.,
I also dream all innocents in Burma to have a chance to breathe fresh air and enjoy freedom outside of all prisons in Burma, and all courageous and respectful Burmese monks can have a peaceful moment to live as free citizens without dangers of death and tortures to death in burmese prisons! and all murderous Burmese thugs can return to China for being executed as criminals for their chinese master to harvest their body-parts to feed the Chinese human-body-parts- harvesting businesses as the chinese dream as making good money in the unique chinese way of making money!
Lastly, I wish The world should point their asses into the sky in order to be able to kiss the feet and toes of the courageous and most respectable Lady-of-the-World: Madame Aung San Suu Kyi to express admiration and appreciation and respect for her never-ending suffering and losses physically and mentally in order to teach the entire world how to live as a courageous individual like she is! The wonderful and most admirable "Angel-of-the-Entire-Planet-Earth!
Also, The world should learn how to feel ashamed themselves and condemn themselves as by slapping into their own faces each day for their cowardness while seeing Madame Aung SanSuu Kyi to be forcibly endured herself for too long without valuable assistances of any world leaders of the world and she has to absorb all terrorizing and punishing by Burmese thugs in the land of the devils Burma supported by bloody China that is not better than a hell on earth!"
"May World-Conscience Bless This planet Earth and its innocent and hopeless people! and send to hell all murderous ruling thugs and tyrants to live with hell fire forever and leave this planet earth alone!"
Thanks,
Conscience-to-the-world
October 9, 2007 12:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
no to boycott.it does not work .let the burmese people take care of their own affair and they will be able to defeat the military regime.
the only county in the world that needs to be bocotted is israel.it is the only country that openly committs horrendous crimes against an occupied people and yet with the help of various american administrations has succsfully avoided any punishment.those who believe in justice need to look at the nazi zionists and their criminal behavior first.
October 8, 2007 11:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
My mistake. I cited TTT when I should have cited mohammad allam
October 8, 2007 2:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TTT wrote "Israel=killed and displaced the million of palestinian people."
Yes, they displaced Palestinian Arabs and killed some of them after the surrounding Arab nations attacked the new state of Israel. Some of the Palestinian Arabs left on the advice of the approaching Arab Armies to leave the battle zone. But was it a million?
According to http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html#sources1
in 1941 the population of Palestine was 474,102 Jewish and 1,111,398 Arab. In 1950 it was 1,203,000 Jewish and 1,172,100 Arab.
Where does the "million killed and displaced" come from? Is there a better source of population data than the one I came across from Google?
October 8, 2007 2:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
MOHAMMAD ALLAM – FINE, GO AHEAD AND LIST SOME WESTERN ATROCITIES. ARABIC AND ISLAMIC CULTURE HAS IT’S OWN RATHER LENGTHY LIST, TOO, SO IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THAT GAME…. THE EASTERN ROMAN EMPIRE, MODERN DAY TURKEY, WAS A GREEK AND ROMAN HOMELAND. THE CONQUERING ISLAMIC ARMIES SLAUGHTERED AN ESTIMATED 4 MILLION PEOPLE, EVERY WESTERN MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD THEY ENCOUNTERED. THEY COMPLETELY DENUDED ENTIRE TOWNS. THEN, THEY FORCABLY SETTLED ARABIC PEOPLE IN THE VACATED HOMES AND BUSINESSES. THEY TOOK OVER CHURCHS, CONVERTING THEM INTO MOSQUES. NOT ONE OR TWO, BUT THOUSANDS. THOSE ARMIES SOUGHT OUT MONESTARIES AND, IN COLD BLOOD, MURDERED EVERY SINGLE MONK AND NUN, BURNING BIBLES AND OTHER EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERURE IN A MAD ATTEMPT TO EXTERMINATE AN ENTIRE CULTURE AND PEOPLE. THIS DIDN’T JUST OCCUR IN THE EASTERN ROMAN EMPIRE, IT OCCURRED IN SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, PALESTINE, PARTS OF EGYPT AND ISRAEL. ALL OF THOSE LANDS WERE GREEK AND ROMAN, NOT ONE OF THEM EVERY HAD ANYTHING MORE THAN AN INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY OF ARABIC PEOPLE. THOSE PEOPLE THERE TODAY, ARE THE RESULT OF CONQUESTS, OF MASS MURDER AND ETHNIC CLEANSING ON A SCALE THAT MAKES ANYTHING EVER DONE BY THE WEST PALE. THE CRUSCADES, THAT LATEST BATTLE CRY BY THE ARABIC STREET AND THE SILLY TWITS OF AL QAIDA, WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF ARTROCITIES AND CONQUESTS, OF DELIBERATE DESTRUCTION OF CHRISTIAN HOLY PLACES, OF MASS MURDER, ON THE PART OF CONQUERING ARABIC ARMIES. YOUR “AL-AKSA MOSQUE” WERE BUILT IN 1035 ON THE SITE OF A FAMOUS BYZANTINE CHRISTIAN CHRUCH. THOSE FEW CHRISTIAN'S LEFT ALIVE WE THE SUBJECT OF POGRAMS AND HARRASEMENT THAT GOADED THE WEST INTO AT LEAST GAINING ACCESS TO, IF NOT FREEING, THEIR HOLYEST SITES. TODAY, WESTERNERS DON'T RUN AROUND WITH BOMBS STRAPPED TO THEMSELVES, MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE, THEY DON'T TORTURE AND MURDER MISSIONARIES FROM OTHER RELIGIONS, THEY DON'T FILM SOME MONSTER SAWING THE HEAD OFF AN INNOCENT CONTRACTOR, THEY DON'T MURDER SOME POOR OLD WOMAN FOR MERELY COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING HARRASSED, THEY DON'T SHELL FARMS, THEY DON'T KIDNAP CHILDREN AND DELIBERATELY MURDER THEM. IF YOU ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT INHUMAN ACTS, ABOUT ATROCITIES, LOOK TO YOUR OWN WORLD!
October 8, 2007 2:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The previous time we boycotted the Olympics it hurt our athletes and had little effect on the policy of the host country (USSR).
If we want to apply sanctions that impact China a better approach would be to boycott or ban imports of "made in China" goods. We have a huge trade imbalance with China so it would also benefit our trade imbalance.
October 8, 2007 1:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
PS to Ahmadinejad & Bollinger - 100s of student protesters are rude to their OWN president ""Why only Columbia? We have questions too" following a protest last December of 1000s of students asking for "Death to the Dictator" http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvTRpNDBGEVeRgwd2cybxqYkTzMg
October 8, 2007 1:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Boycotting the Olympics would be a mistake. Let China open its borders to the hundreds of thousands who wish to attend the games.
Let foreign visitors for themselves see what China's peaceful rise portends for the world. Let them assess the cost of China's industrialization to the environment. Let them determine whether China is a police state or not.
And, as Burma is an Asian country, let Asians decide whether what is happening in their own backyard merits something stronger in the way of reaction to China.
I read, with regret, over the weekend an article by William Kristol in the WaPo arguing for a strong US policy response in support of Burma...to help the Burmese people of course. Given the disaster that this man's policy recommendations have been to the very people we meant to help in the Middle East, I think we should stand on the sidelines and let others lead.
October 8, 2007 10:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
BobL
Did you see the article in the New York times by Stanley Fish ("Why Democracy?")?
The section concerning "Is democracy for everyone?" is one of the points of my first post.
"...The same reasoning applies to the question of whether democracy is good for everyone. It depends on whether you think democracy is the form of government history has been working its way toward (Francis Fukuyama’s thesis in “The End of History”) or is merely one option among others. If you are of the former opinion (as the present administration seems to be), you will believe that the more your adversaries are exposed to democratic ideas, the more attractive they will find them. But if you distrust teleological arguments (as I tend to), you will be skeptical of the possibility of exporting democracy and think of it instead as something others might take or leave, depending on what they hold dear..."
(like subjugation of women, for example)
"...Given that democracy privileges some values — personal mobility, individual entrepreneurialism, tolerance, cosmopolitanism — and downplays others — community, ideological conformity, cultural stability — its attraction will vary with the values a particular society embraces..."
Modern liberalism is struggling with the concept that fundamental human rights is cultural and is therefore something that we cannot change and should not strive to change. In my opinion, this is blatant acceptance of human rights abuses. A completely different approach than the movement of liberals in the 60s-70s where equality and human rights were the driving force behind the movement. To me, you could term it "retreat" liberalism (of course, I'm biased). I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject.
October 8, 2007 8:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
By calling for boycott of the Beijing Olympics, the world would in fact be opting for the easiest way out of this chronic condition in Burma as this will ensure that the countries remain in their comfort zones till the Games are over as, by then, the world would have forgotten all about the sufferings and struggles of Myanmar’s monks and men and their quest for democracy, and the opportunist nations would have drilled millions of gallons of precious oil out of Myanmar’s wells.
This ‘boycotting’ strategy smack of double speak, giving enough window to the world to pretend to be protectors of people’s rights and democracy while supporting and encouraging the brutal military junta of Myanmar all along.
This kind of diplomacy also displays the height of hypocrisy. Why put pressure only on China? Or India for that matter? Why cannot the whole world – united under the banner of the UN – pressurize the Myanmar’s military to relinquish its illegal right to rule and re-instate Aung San Suu Kyi as the legal head of state? For this, however, all the member states – the US in particular - will have to engage China and Russia diplomatically and ensure that they do not exercise their veto in this UN’s mission to establish democracy in Myanmar. … The world needs to understand that a democratic nation is a much more profitable business proposition than a dictator-ruled destination.
October 8, 2007 7:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I agree with Susenjit Guha. The call by Western Administrations for more sanctions against the regime in Myanmar and encouraging China and India to go along is the height of hypocrisy. The chairman of Total (France) just recently said the company wasn't going to cease operations in Myanmar. Chevron (USA) likewise said the same. Both companies are actually extracting and selling oil from Myanmar at this stage and providing the Myanmar government with much needed revenue. They will be reluctant to pull out unless their respective governments enact legislation to force them to do so. Will that happen when there is so much oil, money and larger geopolitical issues involved? Place your bets...
October 7, 2007 1:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I agree with Susenjit Guha. The call by Western Administrations for more sanctions against the regime in Myanmar and encouraging China and India to go along is the height of hypocrisy. The chairman of Total (France) just recently said the company wasn't going to cease operations in Myanmar. Chevron (USA) likewise said the same. Both companies are actually extracting and selling oil from Myanmar at this stage and providing the Myanmar government with much needed revenue. They will be reluctant to pull out unless their respective governments enact legislation to force them to do so. Will that happen when there is so much oil, money and larger geopolitical issues involved? Place your bets...
October 7, 2007 1:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Hi RJ,
If I'm not mistaken, this military rule started when the army siezed power to crush the leftist movement. Communist China would'nt be the one that supports such a take over.
October 6, 2007 7:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Burma is the way it is because of China. If that does not bother you, go to the Olympics. If it does, don't.
October 6, 2007 7:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Shiveh
Hope you are enjoying your weekend
No, I was being a little cynical. On a previous PG question concerning China, several posters indicated (because of Iraq) that Americans have no "moral authority" to discuss China, and I believe that the question was concerning Darfur, but I can't really remember.
Actually, in reality, I more closely believe what you wrote at the beginning of your post and what BobL wrote at the end of his last post. Iraq winning the Asian soccer cup last July (and the reaction of the Iraqi people) indicates how powerful sports can be.
Thanks for the post.
October 6, 2007 5:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hi Tom,
In your post you start with "let me just say that as an American by birth, I have no moral authority to even comment on this question." and then you start attacking "Liberals". I'm totaly confused. Would you elaborate on how we lost the moral authority? Did "Liberals" do it?
October 6, 2007 2:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Let me ask you all something:
Just exactly WHAT does everyone think will happen, if the Burmese ruling junta were to be cast out, huh? Let us think this through (since nobody bothered to do this with Iraq, now did they?)
Is everyone's sweet little dream for Burma to have Aung San's ethnically Burmese political party take over, (which, btw, is a party that is anti-tourism to begin with-how else is the Burmese economy expected to grow without tourism, huh?)and then, all sweetness and light, and flowers being thrown at the military will occur, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE, ALL THE OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS IN THIS- ARTIFICIALLY- CREATED- BY-BRITAIN LAND-THE SHAN, THE MON, THE KAREN, WILL INSTANTLY LAY DOWN ARMS, AND EMBRACE THE ETHNIC BURMESE PROGRESSIVE PARTY AND DAW AUNG SAN KYI, LIKE LONG-LOST RELATIVES???? IS THAT WHAT YOU IDIOTS THINK IS GONNA HAPPEN? THINK AGAIN!
Oh I know! The idea of an oppressive military junta is innately distateful to everyone-BUT IT ALSO MAY NOT BE AS BAD AS THE ALTERNATIVE-WHICH MAY BE CONTINUOUS CIVIL WAR AND BLOODSHED IN THE STREETS, A TOTAL BREAKDOWN OF LAW AND ORDER, WITH THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE KILLED IN AN INSURGENCY WHICH WILL RUIN WHATEVER ECONOMY THE BURMESE HAVE AT PRESENT!
Sound familiar?
October 6, 2007 12:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
There is a very interesting piece in the WP today titled, "Fort Hunt's Men Break Silence." This was the group that was responsible for interrogating