Readers’ Responses to Our Question (46)

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Rockwood Local News: Topix
http://www.britmovie.co.uk/directors/l_anderson/filmography/01.html

Salamon - Thank you...and especially thank you the suggestion of composing comments in Word (or, in my case "Pages"....I'm an Apple MacIntosh user). Duh! I hadn't thought of that and, as my typing skills are simply awful, I post too many errors. And, I sometimes use a Blackberry to post here, which is even worse. I wonder how difficult it would be for the Post to add a spell checker to these forums. Oh well, I *am* thankful that this forum exists and provides an opportunity for us to comment on issues.

MikeB:

after you post, wait til the screen changes [takes time on DSL] then get back to comment section, and refresh -- else you too fast, you will repost believing that it did not register.

At times I had to compose post in Word, and copy, then post, lest WP forgets to post properly. can get shortened, or unposted

I wanted to point out that what I have been saying all along (again!) about the Fed interest rate cuts is coming home to roost! Over half of our debt, both personal and government, is in the form of foreign held bonds. They have been dumping them at a record rate. The Fed's interst rate cut has accelerated foreign investment fleeing our markets. This will cause a disasterous fall in the value of the dollar, leading to more inflation. Moreover, since those foreign held bonds are what fund our mortgages, our credit card debt, and much else, interest rates are going to begin a disasterous climb. No, this rate cut was all about the greedy WallStreet crowd and *their* short term profits. That it will actually harm ordinary working people they care not one whit.

The financial news...already:
New York (AP) -- The dollar fell against almost all major currencies and hit a record low against the euro Tuesday after the Federal Reserve made an aggressive half-point cut in a key interest rate.
The euro rose as high $1.3979 after the long-awaited decision before settling back to $1.3972 in late New York trading, up from 1.3867 Monday.

The dollar fell against the pound, too. The British currency bought $2.0130 in New York trading, up from $1.9939 Monday.

The Federal Reserve cut its benchmark interest rate a half-point to 4.75 percent, the first reduction in this key rate in four years. Most dealers had expected a quarter-point cut.

Lower interest rates, used to jump-start the economy, can weaken a currency by giving investors lower returns on investments denominated in the currency.

The Fed acted to calm financial markets afraid of an impending recession due to a slumping housing market, credit crunch, and weak August jobs data. There was no clear-cut signal as to future rate cuts, however, but the Fed said it "will continue to assess the effects of these and other developments on economic prospects and will act as needed to foster price stability and sustainable economic growth."

The dollar fell against the Canadian dollar to 1.0144 from 1.0279 Monday, a new 30 year low, and was down against the Swiss franc at 1.1810 from 1.1866 Monday. The dollar strengthened slightly against the Japanese currency, however, rising to 115.68 yen from 115.17 on Monday.

The PRESUMPTION that there is tussle for influence in Asia between China and the USA is ridiculous in light of Mr. Bernanke's Federal Reserve. Rather than taking the interest of the nation [low inflation] they elected to pour gas on the fires burning under the RESERVE FIAT CURRENCY, aka, the USA $.

It took but minutes after the announcement of 0.5% rate cut for the DOW to raise by 1 and 1/2 %, while oil futures changes almost as much to the detriment of the ordanary Joe [or Jane].

If there was any soft power left in the USA Arsenal [non-military] then the Fed just blew it. They announced to the world: the MONEYED CLASS represented by K-Street with input from the DECIDER is far more important than the rest of the world, We the Federal Reserve will try to imitate the WEIMAR REPUBLIC, and nullify all USA $ debt by printing lots of ZEROES on our famous dollar bills. See you stupid China: we just made you poorer [that we wrecked the ordinary citizens of the USA, is nothing but colleteral damage, and they do not count, as Iraqi deaths are also of no significance, therefore uncounted].

We The SOLE SUPERPOWER hereby declare to you lowly Asian good producers, that you do not count on finacial issues, but if you dare to even PEEP contrary to our NATIONAL INTEREST [Read Wall Street] then we will send you our hard power, with aids by just wonders of the technological age as B-1 Bombers, Cruise Missiles, etc.

Zoltan:

I hope you are wrong on war with IRan. That could evolve into much larger and deadlier affair.

MikeB:

The problem in university funding is primarily social/political attitude:

1.,your military industrial complex takes too much mooney out of the wealth of the country, where the products [bombers, carriers, untold A/H/N bombs etc and ammunition] are negative to the nations well-being, especially as the overabundance of weapons makes it easier to make war [with more wealth wasted].

2., It is not only you health spending that is runious to your economy [and general health of the nation] as measured by comparison with other OECD countries, but you k-12 is in similarly disgraceful position, where drop out rates approach 33% in poorer areas of USA. Without excellent k-12 you are short of students interested in pure and applied sciences, for the money is not there [excl medicine], but in LAW Business Adminstration, and other marginal professions [in my opinion] where the welfare of the productive economy is concerned. The million dollar bonuses [Wall street types], ungodly income levels of real estate agents is compared to the earning of a science major, the choice is obvious... That all these Real Estate Agents [6-7% commission slaves] do not produce anything but exchanging a $10000 cat for 2 $5000 dogs. Most USA high school graduates will go with the GREED of your culture and choose the potentially high income trades. It is at least 20 years that the foreign student took a large, at times plurality, proportion of all advanced degrees in pure and applied sciences in the USA. Analyse where the income is [even though only small % of all aspirants reacch the top] in the USA, modeling, entertainment [includes pro-sports], speculation [Wall Street special] PORN etc. AND YOU KNOW THE CHOICES

the USA would need a culture [and regime] change after a great shock to revert to the economy centered education/reward system from this area of GREED IS THE ONLY ANSWER.

Awk! Why did my post end up being posted multiple times?

Salamon - "...one reason that there are so many foreign students in your Science, Math, applied Science faculties...is due to the abysmal level of most public education in 90% of your shools."

Oh were it that simple and true, but it isn't. In a recent study, 2/3 of the engineering students in public schools were found to be foreign. The same depressing statistic is true of medical schools, and hard and biological sciences. The reason is that, as foreign students, the schools receive three to four times the tuition and fees for these students, over what they would reeive for resident students. It is purely and simply a way to make money above whatever the state allots them. Moreover, that study found that for each and every foreign student admitted to such a program, a fully qualified resident student was turned down. Beyond this, the school doesn't have to worry about arranging financial aid for the students. The governments for these students usually pay the tuition, fees, room and board, books, for those students in a block. Soooo much less painless and time consuming than actually having to work with individual students. And. for the foreign government, this is sooo much cheaper than building their own universities, staffing them with experts, and buying the lab equipment, computers, library, and all of the rest.

This is another one of those front page investigative reports that the Post should run, but wont.

Salamon - "...one reason that there are so many foreign students in your Science, Math, applied Science faculties...is due to the abysmal level of most public education in 90% of your shools."

Oh were it that simple and true, but it isn't. In a recent study, 2/3 of the engineering students in public schools were found to be foreign. The same depressing statistic is true of medical schools, and hard and biological sciences. The reason is that, as foreign students, the schools receive three to four times the tuition and fees for these students, over what they would reeive for resident students. It is purely and simply a way to make money above whatever the state allots them. Moreover, that study found that for each and every foreign student admitted to such a program, a fully qualified resident student was turned down. Beyond this, the school doesn't have to worry about arranging financial aid for the students. The governments for these students usually pay the tuition, fees, room and board, books, for those students in a block. Soooo much less painless and time consuming than actually having to work with individual students. And. for the foreign government, this is sooo much cheaper than building their own universities, staffing them with experts, and buying the lab equipment, coputers, library, and all of the rest.

This is another one of those front page investigative reports that the Post should run, but wont.

Salamon - "...one reason that there are so many foreign students in your Science, Math, applied Science faculties...is due to the abysmal level of most public education in 90% of your shools."

Oh were it that simple and true, but it isn't. In a recent study, 2/3 of the engineering students in public schools were found to be foreign. The same depressing statistic is true of medical schools, and hard and biological sciences. The reason is that, as foreign students, the schools receive three to four times the tuition and fees for these students, over what they would reeive for resident students. It is purely and simply a way to make money above whatever the state allots them. Moreover, that study found that for each and every foreign student admitted to such a program, a fully qualified resident student was turned down. Beyond this, the school doesn't have to worry about arranging financial aid for the students. The governments for these students usually pay the tuition, fees, room and board, books, for those students in a block. Soooo much less painless and time consuming than actually having to work with individual students.

his is another one of those front page investigative reports that the Post should run, but wont.

Zoltan - Oh, war is entirely likely, almost a predictable outcome, really. But the collapse of our economy and the ensuing chaos will be the immediate result. With the economy a mess, people unemployed, homes and dreams lost, the first result is going to be demands that the government bail people out. The government, however, is BROKE and pretty powerless to do much of anything. Drop interest rates and you simply speed up the exit of foreign capital that props up our enormous government and personal debt. Cut off the H1-B visa and India will turn on us like a pack of rabid dogs. Stop outsourcing and our use to China is over and done with and they will seek Asian hegimony, new markets, and will steal every bit of technology we have sent them to pound us into the dirt. Mexico? That insipid gang of crooks that runs that country will FLOOD us with their wretched poor, corporatons will use them as slave labor to lower prices even further to "compete in the international market".

In the end, people, government and corporations will cast about, looking for someone to blame. We both know that unfettered greed, on the part of corporations and investors is the cause, that and their political allies, but the chances of them actually receiving the blame is impossibly slight. SO the blame will be external and you can expect that a good old fashioned global conflict will ensue as the morons in Washington try to use the old tried and true "war economy" to lift us out of the mess we have created. I fear, however, that the end result will simply be our complete destruction.

Our leaders have placed no constraints on our corporations and investors. They are in the business of making money and don't care about this country or the people; they have the souls of ferrets. ITT, Boeing, IBM, and others have willingly sold defense technology, night vision goggles and gun sights, cruise missile guidance systems, high speed computers, stealth fighter and bomber plans, the crown jewels of our military technology to foreign governments. And these are the ones that have been caught! "Globalization" is just another buzz word they use to perpetuate their running amuck.

Yesterday I saw where Hillary Clinton unveiled her "universal" health care program. I don't know how many people read it, but is essentially keeps the same ramshackle mess we have now in place and adds a $110 billion dollar government subsidy to "help" people who cannot afford to buy into the second rate mess we have now. I have been waiting for the press to notice that Amercian health care, as measured for quality of service, no longer ranks amoungst the top ten in the world. In fact, amoungst industrialize Western countries, we don't even rate in the top 20. Now, look at Scandinavia, the countries with the worlds top rated health care. They have a single payer system and have removed corporations and investors from the mix. They recognized that health care is essential to the very survival of their country, so they created a program that works and is government run from one end to the other. Now, Sweden, as an example, as of 12/31/2005 had a population of 9,047,752. The *total* cost of health care for *all* of those people, medical, dental, prescription drug, DME (wheelchairs, etc.) AND even nursing home care for the elderly, came to $25.4 billion. Simply take those numbers and factor them into our population and you get a *total* cost for health care of a bit less than $85 billlion. That is not just $25 billon less than Hillary Care II, it doesn't even consider the savings from doing away with all private insurance and the accompanying burdon on employers and job creation, it doesn't figure the saving from doing away with Medicare, Medicare Part D, Medicaid, and all of those ancillary costs born by consumers here. Someone needs to point out that we could have true universal health care in this country, full coverage for every man, woman, and child, for less than the government subsidy proposed by Ms. Clinton. They wont, and don't hold your breath, because Ms. Clinton's plan is nothing more than a another pigs trough, a taxpayer subsidized pigs trough, that the health care "industry" gets to feed from and kicks back to candidate Clinton a porton of that money in the form of campaign donations and more of her dubious investments. No one in the media would dare to point out that that this emporor wannabee has no clothes because they act like a bunch of start struck groupies and don't want to miss out on some "inside" interview. It's disgusting!

MikeB: "Our economy WILL collapse and likely next year, maybe even this winter. The only question is,..."

I fear an other outcome: WAR.

When the USSR collapsed, the world was lucky that there was a Gorbachev that let the Soviet system implode, without external damage. It was admirable. Unfortunately, this time with the collapse of the USA, I'm afraid that the Cheney/NeoCons will bet the bank. And with such a**holes as Sarkozy/Kouchner, they found a replacement to Blair.

Consider only the 9/11 attacks: more and more people believe that there is something fishy with the way the official investigation was made and with the official explanations. With the now official lies about the WMD in Iraq, some people dare say that a new and really thorough and independent investigation is needed. Which might lead to the criminal arrest for treason of the Cheney gang, and probably death sentence.

So today, they are not fighting anymore for the oil or the rich corporations, but for their own lives. Seeing how dirty they can be for only money, imagine how dirty they might fight for their lives.

MikeB:

I do believe that the USA economic model of today, in your words, selling securites to each other, and keeping the barbershops/hamburger joints operating etc is INsufficient for a national economy. Nor do I think that the Military industrial cabal's production should be in GDP where the goods are shipped offshore for destruction [a.k.a. as DEMOCRACY BUILDING with bombs from B52-s]. Total waste of resources [all being limited on SpaceShip Earth] in two ways, manufactured for DESTRUCTION, with the aim of DESTRUCTION OF OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES AND PROPERTIES.

Wesley Clark's column -- the coming wars -- clearly indicated that the Military industrial cabal is uninterested in citizens' well being when it proposed more destructive production while deferring the cost of these to the unborn.

The Whole USA system is contaminated by endless greed for a few at the expense of 6+ Billion human beings, the reisdents of this insignificant Globe, we call our home.
I recall over the years all the USA/UK sourced BS aimed at Germany [and today at France]for keeping her industries at home with innovative manufacturing processes, etc. We are about to find out the error of this BS as the USA economy tanks -- though I am not as pessimistic as you about the depth of disruption.

To a certain extent the mess is due to the utter failure of the educaion system K-12, which notwithstanding empirical evidence since Sputnik has failed to adjust to the demands of the technological age. Nowdays a car-mechanic has to be well versed in computer use [both as database for fixes aqnd for the inside of the car with its myraid computers], else he is not a mechanic. Your courts can not envision the need for equal opportunity in education reagrdless of color, faith etc, they can only contemplate funding and school boards/ state legislations.

That the highest earnings are in such "professions" as MBA, Law, Salesmanship, advertizing rather than anything to do with education and or GOODS PRODUCTION is a systemic fault of politization based on LOBBY POWER [of the almighty $]. The welfare of THE PEOPLE is of little consequence to these bought and paid for slaves of the moneyed class, a.k.a members of Congress, of Legislatures, and related overpaid "UNCIVIL SERVANTS".

One reason that there are so many foreign students in your Science, Math, applied Science faculties [though per capita less than in the EU's various single members] is due to the abysmal level of most public education in 90% of your shools serving the "LOWER CLASSES" in a society which was presumed to be [in the Constitution/Federal Papers] to be classless.

Salamon, You have wonder at the delussional thinking of free trade advocates that bel8ieve we can survive as a service based economy. As if we're all going to get rich selling hamburgers to each other, or all make our money investing. That's tantimount to thinking that you can make a full time living off the proceedes of your lottery winnings. Insane!

We cannot survive without a manufacturing base, without propritory technology, without a basic sceintific and technological core. What wenave done is to outsource our manufacturing base, export every bit of our most critical technology, and (worst of all) displaced our resident engineers and sceintists, even displaced our students in college and university classrooms, with foreign workers and students. And, these aren;t even "immigrants". They are temporary guest workers and studies show that 85% of them return to their home countries.

Small wonder that we are crumbling. We haven;t got a chance. The brainless populous has been conviced by the greedy corporate hacks that tyey an have it all - ever lower prices, higher wages (of course, someone will suffer, but not you), home loans that defy the very rules of mathematics, and security and freedom. Well, we cannot afford any of this any longer and, as Mr. Greenspan points out, the rotten structure is going to collapse in the long term (meaning 12 to 24 months). Unfortunately, that collapse is going to be a lot more desructive and a lot more permanent than anyone, even Mr. Greenspan, imagines. Once foreign investors have lost faith, and they have, and their money flees in sufficient amount, the underpinning of our economy is gone. The price of oil follows the international bond market and is pegged to the Euro, causing the drop we have seen to the dollar to turn into a rout! Inflation and unemployment will accompany each other with ruthless "free enterprise" casing even more outsourcing, more of a search for cheap guest workers, and lead to a complete wreck of the Middle Class. THAT is our future and THAT FUTURE is what the fools at APEC summit are blind to. Unfortunately, it is too late for them to do anything about it. Our economy WILL collapse and likely next year, maybe even this winter. The only question is, will our leaders allow corporations and investors, the cuase of this mess, to utterly and completely and forever wreck this country, or of someone with some wisdom will come forward and reign in corporations, punish corporate leaders for criminal wrong doing and treason, end our participation in the global economy, and start to put the citizens of this country first and formost.

Frankly, I just don't see that happening. My bet is on our utter collapse and ceasing to exist as a viable nation. We will become Mexico, Iraq, just another failed nation from which people flee misery and destitution.

MikeB:

an interesting website emphasizing your contention that the American Manufacturing economy is in decline and that foreign capiutal owns a large part of it. Moreover, it indicates that what is left in USA's industry is non-competative in internatinal trade [barring Boeing]

http://www.economyincrisis.org/?content=eicad1&gclid=CNTHxtC3y44CFSavhgod22wg7w

Without doubt American Observer [ so petulant in these blogs] will deny any such statistics, for he knows nought of history, of economics or of statistics.

Pity that the Classical; Greek Hubris [as in drama by sophacles et al] has overtaken the USA political/Lobby cabal to the detriment of 95% the USA citizens

It's interesting to note that virtually everything I have been saying, concerning the economic and long term security impact, about tyhe effects of outsourcing and guest workers has been echoed in Alan Greenspan's new book. That is everything from the price of oil being pegged to the Euro to the disasterous long term consequences of offshoring our critical technology. We either end outsourcing, by taxing it to death, and curb-limit-or-eliminate the H1-B and L-1 guest worker visas or we will cease to exist.

JLRL, thanks for considering my viewpoint as "new". I could develop this understanding about the "new world order" by reading articles in various newspapers, watching current affairs programs on television and correlating them with my own observations on the same. You could read relevant articles on websites of the following (my favourite!) newspapers:

1. The Times of India (www.timesofindia.com)
2. The Hindustan Times (www.hindustantimes.com)
3. The Hindu (www.hinduonline.com)
4. The Washington Post
5. The New York Times

Hope you too would get to learn a lot about the changing times and tunes of the world!

JRLR

Thank you for your last message. I did not realize that you added to my comment.
Regards

D. Hodara, re: your message posted on September 12, 2007.

It is now unclear to me what your message was meant to be, and whether what I posted (September 12, 2007 10:48 AM), after quoting you, could in any way have been unfair to you, or have offended you.

Should you have any misgivings, please post again, confirm accuracy of new message, and advise; I shall then readily amend my post accordingly.

Regards

Please note that the message I posted on September 12, 2007 has been tampered with.

The second paragraph following the first ending '.... shadowed it.' was eliminated and replaced by a message, whose author I ignore.

A historical sidelight: in its millennium issue at the end of 1999, The Economist foresaw one, among several, possible strategic choices for China on its path to world domination as: staying firmly in control of China's internal Muslim population, staying aloof from Muslim militancy in the world outside its borders but allowing 'western nations' to respond to militant Islam as a challenge, thereby draining themselves of influence, treasure and strategic advantage.
In hindsight, well done! Looking forward, Americans must hope that this Bush is an aberration and vote hard to ensure that he will be.

The whole period of Bush shows one thing and that is a chalked line dictation to him in foereign policy where more emphaisis was put on military use than diplomacy.The question of Iraq iran and afghanistan which bush tried to slove with military power aliened the Asian powers from America.other hand the dimlomatic tackle by china about the case of North korea,the peneration of china in central asia with russia and the exit of america from central asia shows that china getting more cake than america.at OPEC the hegemony of china can be seen the term of polite behaviour of Taiwan representative and getting urenium from australia shows that china hold ome respect.the growing military strenth of china with reawakeing russian making little space for america to play the great game.other hand in india the nuclear deal to get new ally to counter the hegemony of china seem to be in diffiult by the cry of left lef bjp goverment.The segment of australia ,japan,america and india block depends upon the implementation of indo-usa nuclear deal.In case of failure there would be not four group to counter cebtral asian group.
the vulrenable position of america and allies in afghanistan going to be more tough with rising Taliban.Iran already in antagonistic camp.Iraq also lost to iran.Pakistan cannot go against the trusted china .so where america will get hol d?other the rising china forcing japan to look towards china with other look.the political instability in japan led the china to be more powerfull player than america in asia.
and all is due to the fault foreign policy of a president who does not know that in new golbal world diplomacy is more powerfull than war

Anju Chandel, New Delhi, India writes :"These transformations have left the world a changed place..."

Anju Chandel, do you know anyone who, according to you, has written something original and most significant, on this new perspective you present, beyond the Cold War and the current US hegemony, and from whom one could learn something? (Does not have to be in English...)

I would welcome any reference you might have.

Thanks.

A very interesting and intriguing pattern is emerging on political canvas of the world – global geopolitical transformations are happening that are quite apparent from the shifting sands in its structure. The world is moving away – and fast – from a Uni-polar existence to a multi-dimensional polarity. The US, which had almost acquired – and declared – its global leadership position post disintegration of the erstwhile USSR, is now willingly – actually inevitably – accepting the resurgence of other centers of power along side.

Parallel axes are being formed concurrently, crisscrossing at numerous points - converging and diverging and confusing the world immensely. On one axis are the US and its old and also its new allies. Then there is the Russian affiliation with its contingent of coteries – many of them also amongst the US’s current so-called friends. Then there is the third alliance – the Chinese one - emerging fast and strong, and again, with many common companions from other political blocs with which, of course, the world is not so comfortable because of self-styled isolationist attitude displayed by China in the past.

And, that the US is trying hard to hold on to its high ground can be seen in its desperate – and often mindless – attempts with its ill thought of politically motivated military maneuvers. However, the emerging new economic world order has put spanners in all its senseless strategies.

Today, no country howsoever large in any respect can ignore the importance of China and India – the two brightest economic stars - and also of other rising economies like Brazil, Russia, Vietnam and, of course, Japan. These are the markets which give them customers for their products and opportunities for future progress due to unprecedented escalation seen in purchase power parity amongst their population.

These transformations have left the world a changed place: no one country can afford to dominate or dictate anymore, anywhere due to a multi-dimensional arrangement: whether in Asia or Africa or America or Australia or, even, Antarctica! … How could have APEC remained untouched???

Salamon

Do you really believe that the Talaban which ruled Afghanistan from 1995 to 2001 won the hearts and minds of the Afghanistan people? Do you believe that the Islamic government of Iran is winning the hearts and minds of the Iranian people today?

In both cases human rights were/are violently oppressed in much the same way as Saddam Hussein oppressed the Shia and Kurds for two decades. The civil war in Iraq is a direct result of Saddam's rule in my opinion. Iran has really been cracking down over the past few months.

The problem in Iraq and to a lesser extent in Afghanistan is that we cannot provide security for the civilian population in either country. The US has not been able to stop Sunni insurgents, Shia death squads and al-Qaeda Iraq from the brutal targeting and killing of civilians (classic terrorism), and as a result, the Iraqi government is weakened and marginalized. Of course, that is one of the primary goals of attacking civilians.

The surge is meant to give protection to the civilian population (and it's working to a certain extent). The US cannot sustain current troop levels thus Bush is drawing down levels to pre-surge levels over the next year, but if protecting Iraqi civilians is the goal, then troop levels should INCREASE not decrease.

A quick withdrawal could be disastrous (more disastrous) for the civilian population as well as potentially spread the conflict regionally.

I agree that oil is the lifeblood of not only our economy but the world's economy.

Solamon,

It will be around the time pigs learn to fly that a western christian democracy will win the hearts and minds of a muslim nation. This will not happen in our life time.

What people fail to take into consideration when talking about the sub-prime mess in the US is how much money was made off it for 6 years. A combination of lower interest rates and loosened underwiting guidelines created a boom economy in the United States. Housing values skyrocketed, homebuilders had record profits, mortgage companies made oodles of money, wall street made a killing, construction workers, home repair and remodeling people, landscapers, travel agencies, auto makers, etc., etc. made trillions of dollars off this market. Now some of them are giving some of it back. Whoopee. This isn't going to be the end of the world for the US economy. As a side note I've had a front row seat watching the mortgage meltdown and I'm one of those people giving back. So while personally I wish it didn't happen I have nothing to complain about as I too profited from the boom years.

Yes, China is winning in Asia by default because USA is losing diplomatically everywhere. America's loss is America's doing, China is only taking advantage of the given opportunity as any aspiring nation would.

D. Hodara writes:

"Unfortunately, one has to admit that a still communist country is in a position to attract the friendship of a number of Asian, African and other countries due to the fact that they give the impression that they are neutral and generous...In fact, the U.S. have been one of the most generous country in the world and it is a pity that the Bush administration and the Iraq quagmire have shadowed it."

Does anyone in the world seriously think the following economic rape is the type of "reconstruction" and "nation building" developing nations want, for their people?

"The law that was finally adopted by Iraq's cabinet in February, 2007, was even worse than anticipated: It placed no limits on the amount of profits that foreign companies can take from the country and placed no specific requirements about how much or little foreign investors would partner with Iraqi companies or hire Iraqis to work in the oil fields... Most brazenly, it excluded Iraq's elected parliamentarians from having any say in the terms for future oil contracts... It's hard to overstate the disgrace of this attempted resource grab. Iraq's oil profits are the country's only hope of financing its own reconstruction when some semblance of peace returns. To lay claim to that future wealth in a moment of national disintegration was disaster capitalism at its most shameless." (From "The Shock Doctrine", by Naomi Klein)

Given that 1. we were told so often, on these blogs, the Iraq adventure never had anything to do with oil, everything to do with altruism and humanitarianism; 2. the reasons WHY China's influence in the world is growing matter more than rear-guard "China bashing" and crude anti-socialism/communism, I think this reminder is in order, when discussing the attraction exercised by the "China model" on people's imagination.

TOM:

While I agree with the essence of your posting, I find that reality re Iraq is most crass, where political grandstanding takes preference over human life [both Iraqi and USA life and limb] -whether by Generals, democrats or Republicans.

Whether the politicos like it or not, the USA lost both Iraq and Afganistan for the sole reason that they lost sight of WINNING HEARTS AND MINDS and chose carpet-bombing, sanctions on car use [Fajulla] disregard of refugees/displaced people from the two invaded countries [in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Pakistan and withinh their own countries].

Morerover, if these "WARS" do not come to a quick resolution [withdrawal of all foreign troops] there is a fair chance that the USA will loose all influence in all Muslim countries, the source of most of hydrocarbons, the life blood of USA economy [now that the fimancial empires of subprime morgages, and all types of derivatives -$ 450-600 trillion is collapsing].

While my proffered wish for these wars will never occur, shifting the Congress, the Whitehouse with all their staff and officers and their neocon friends to any desirable realestate in the sands of Mesopotamia, without re-inforced Humvees, with K rations, and without all the nice things like A/C, comfy beds etc].

BobL

The Dems really have nothing to gain by lambasting Petraeus (and that's smart POLITICS). Just keep the focus on the LENGTH of US commitment and attack Bush at every opportunity. That's a strategy that worked in 2006 and probably will continue to work in the 2008 elections.

Unfortunately, one has to admit that a still communist country is in a position to attract the friendship of a number of Asian, African and other countries due to the fact that they give the impression that they are neutral and generous.
In the meantime, the Bush administration was able to waste all of the U.S. capital of respect and admiration with their war policies and the fact that they give the impression that they are arrogant and bullies.
In fact, the U.S. have been one of the most generous country in the world and it is a pity that the Bush administration and the Iraq quagmire have shadowed it.

The reason that China [and Russia] are winning the diplomatic tussle in SE Asia [and anywhere else but UK and other USA lapdogs] is that they are realist as opposed to the USA dreamers in neo-con land with help from Mrs. Clinton and MSM.

Not one peep out of MSM regarding Mr. Bernenke's lecture in Germany: the USA balance of payments is UNSUSTAINABLE - evn with depreciating USA $.

In intenrational perspective the one who is broke has no power. The onhly power the
USA has is an ill-lead military depending on scorch-the -earth bombing raids to even survive in IRaq.

Moreover, the USA is too engrossed with the notion that ENGLISH IS THE MAIN LANGUAGE OF THE EARTh, thus neglecting to have a properly trained multi-lingual diplomatic/intellignece core, leading to the utter loss of realist picture outside of the Anglo-Saxon world. Chinese diplomats visiting OPEC speak Arabic or Farsi while the USA depends on faulty interpreters.

This Arrogance regarding communications forsakes any meaning ful cultural contact, thus the end of diplomacy. Goethe [of Dr Faust fame] once remarked that til you speak at least two languages, you do not even understand your own language. It is true in the cultural context - to the detriment of USA.

BobL-VA -
You know, I get so depressed by the news lately, I sometimes don't want to get up in the morning. Why on gods green earth are the front runners in the presidential race monye grubbing opportunists like Hillary Clinton and Guliani and Romney? There are decent, honorable, even patriotic people in public service. Whether you agree with them or disagree, Nancy Pelosi, John McCain, John Edwards, Fred Thompson, Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and Barak Obama are people who actually put the interests of this country ahead of everything else. Where are they on the radar? Nowhere. They are ignored by the media, who hang on every word of the Clinton's or Guliani's like adoring groupies. Right now, the economy is headed for a disaster and no one seems to have the brains or vision to do anything about it. Instead, they cling to their pipe dreams and mutter "free trade" as if it were some sort of mantra that couldn't possibly be the very source, at least as practiced in the unfettered manner we are practicing free trade, of our demise.

MikeB,

Lighten up. Even Tom knows how sarcastic my post was. The debacle in Washington these past two days has been disgusting to witness. Bush, as much as I'm counting the days until he leaves office, at least has an agenda. I don't agree with it. I think it's stupid, but he has one. What have the Democrat's done in these last two days? Yup, just sucked up to Betrayedus and Crock. Spineless is the only word I can think of. It has disgusted me. We all know Bush and his hand picked croonies used fuzzy math at best in these last two days and it basically went unchallenged. If that wasn't bad enough the Dem's didn't even have the guts to say to Betrayedus, "thank you for your service. our gripe isn't with you. It is with Bush's policies. Now if you want to sit here and feed us a line of bull pies then maybe our beef is with you as well." Nope, no such guts. Pathetic. And politicans wonder why the public thinks so little of them? It should be obvious.

BobL-VA :
"...proud to be an American..." Well, then, you'd be proud to wave "Old Glory", with all of those politican's like, Mr. and Mrs. Outsourcing - Teddy Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I hear that all of the discount stores have them on sale, two for $5, made in China, so they are cheap.

Tom Wonacott,

I'd like to commend GW for a masterful dog and pony show the last two days here in Washington. Of course he couldn't have pulled it off with the help of the spineless Democrats. I haven't seen a love fest like this since Woodstock. Makes me proud to be an American.

It may be too early in the conversation to point this out, nevertheless I find it most symptomatic that nobody has yet ventured to list briefly major Chinese and US DIPLOMATIC initiatives in Asia, let's say in the last ten years, then compare and evaluate them.

[No need to account: 1. For US air strike on China's Embassy in Belgrade, in 1999 -- we all remember: Intelligence had the "wrong address". 2. For George W. Bush's 2001 statement concerning China's holding of a U.S. spy plane, which collided with a Chinese fighter and was forced to make an emergency landing in China -- we all remember: "Our crew members expressed their faith in America".]

Could the delay in seeing this conversation begin be caused by our not having heard, for so long, of US diplomatic initiatives anywhere, let alone in Asia? Undoubtedly, we constantly hear about US MILITARY and about US so-called POLITICAL initiatives in Asia all right; but what about DIPLOMATIC initiatives?

I would dare suggest that American diplomacy is currently living through a series of terrifying near-death experiences, not only in Asia, but everywhere in the world. Alas, "kicking butts" has little to do with diplomacy. Just think of the Middle-East! Give a thought to Iraq, to Afghanistan...(don't even bother with Palestine!).

I would of course welcome with open arms anyone who would demonstrate convincingly that American diplomacy is "alive and kicking", more particularly in Asia, as this would relate to the question put to us above.

Should I be right in my diagnostic, though, it would be interesting to know what illnesses are at the source of such terminal experiences. Why the void? Why the darkness? Why the slow breathing? Why the deadly silence? Why the imminent death?...

Here is some of what a Chinese diplomatic voice had to say on the subject, a few years back, for the record (Xinhua, updated: 2005-09-11 09:22):

"China's diplomacy has now entered a golden age, said President of China Foreign Affairs University Wu Jianmin in Beijing on Saturday.

...

"The diplomatic golden age means that China had never developed its foreign relations as extensively as in these years," he said, explaining that the number of countries establishing diplomatic ties with China has increased from around 60 in 1971 to more than 160 presently. ...

"It proves that China has opened up to the outside world in a broad manner..." said Wu.

...

"China and its external world have never influenced each other so much as today," he said. In the old days, China's domestic affairs had little impact on the world, but now everything has changed. "The whole world is watching China closely ..."

"The increasingly active diplomatic manoeuvres have made unprecedented contribution to China's rising influence in today's world," Wu said, noting that China's diplomacy not only helps create a peaceful and stable environment for the country's development, but also provides a powerful support for the country's economic growth.

... The senior diplomat said China's diplomacy is changing from a passive style to an active style, which means that China is taking more initiative in its diplomatic efforts instead of only making passive responses.

Under China's active mediation, the six-part talks on the Korean nuclear issue... China's painstaking efforts to push forward the process have been praised by the international community and all concerned parties...

"The world could feel the positive efforts made by China for the regional and global peace and stability, and could realize how important China is in the international affairs," Wu noted.

China's active diplomacy has resulted from its rising national strength, Wu said, noting that China's voice is needed in international affairs.

As president of the Foreign Affairs University, Wu hoped that the university would take its 50th founding anniversary as a new starting point to train more qualified diplomats, so as to contribute more to China's diplomatic work.

The China Foreign Affairs University, founded in 1955, was initiated by then Premier Zhou Enlai. More than 17,000 students have graduated from the university, among whom 217 have served as Chinese ambassadors to foreign countries.

Source:http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-09/11/content_476769.htm

Et tu, Brute! What says ye?

I wasn't aware this was a contest and frankly I'm not a big fan of this question either.

Anyone who wants to spend the time to look it up will see the United States is still the richest country in the world and the richest by far. I know MikeB points out the loss of jobs and he's right. Economic realities today will push more jobs once held by Americans overseas. A considerable number of these will go to China and India. It only makes sense as they are by far the number one and two countries in terms of population.

Since the end of WWII there has been an almost unnatural balance of power and money in the world. All we're seeing today are countries like China and to a lesser degree India go after a piece of the economic pie. It was inevitable it would happen and we're watching it today take place. China is looking for raw materials and markets for their products. Combine these characteristics with an almost unlimited labor supply and an artifically depessed currency and they will make inroads on the world economic scene. Basically, we're not as rich as we think we are and they are not as poor as they once were.

sorry for multiple posts my a message from PG indicated my post did not go thru! Obviously they did!!!! Please considering deleting some entries

I think China knows and sticks to this particular saying: There are no permanent friends or enemies, just permanent interests.

There is no tussle. this is not a football game or a war or a confrontation, simply it is an evaluation of alternative approach to American Hard Power zeal.

First thing china is not in tussle with United States, therefore who is winning the tussle does not arise.

China simply finding a gap created by recent US policies and it is quitely filling the gap

For US think tanks this is not important that who is filling the vacuume, the important is that why the vacuume was created

Today we are still listening the optimistic views about Iraq situation. If we continue to live in such dreams then how you can stop someone to realise the opportunity and grab it.

I am not discussing the legalities or ethics of the war . I know one simple fact

One party spending money to stay. In the process the economical condition of the local is deteriorating. Now 2nd party which can provide cheaper stuff coming in

Who is loosing and who is gaining

.

This week, the Congress is listening to the most important testimony that has been given since the Watergate scandal. That testimony will decide the fate of millions of Iraqis and the fate of 170,000 Western soldiers in Iraq. Yet, PostGlobal asks us to debate the significance of leaving early from the APEC summit.

Did Fareed Zakaria present this week's PostGlobal question?

This is not about when someone arrived or left as the impressive energy deals announced by China and Australia were already "done deals" before APEC meetings. Their leaders just wisely utilized this forum as the backdrop to make the announcements. In the age of globalization or better post- globalization, as this site has it ever so right, the U.S. must be able to maneuver and most important TO ANTICIPATE...this is were we are failing. We appear to have lost the ability to anticipate. In a post global world moving very quickly and surefooted in regard to transnational issues on everything from economics, energy resources, security issues and environmental crisis... we are proving not to be nimble or surefooted enough. Countries do not need managers they need leaders. We have neither at the moment and both China and Russia have nimble leaders ready to challenge US dominance in several theatres. It is only natural that China would make its first gains in the Asian theatre as it did recently at the SCO and now Apec. China is challeging the US and EU in Africa, much to the US dismay will continue economic ties with Iran. The US needs to understand we are in a new era where we will face challenges of access and influence. We need to start now anticipating some of the challenges, but hubris and complacency more than our problems in Iraq have left us without much imagination. What you don't know is more important than what you do know. It's Black Swan time in both economics and post global politics. We just don't "get it" as a nation.

I am sorry to say, but I must agree with MikeB - the USA treasury is broke, the cost of production is high, the financial wizards through dubious machinations have "frozen" the USA economy, so all soft power due to "money talks" is gone to China. Witout illigal invasions, extra-territorial renditions, ABU G, Gat..Bay, Habeas Corpus, Military Tribunalss, etc. the USA might have had some moral superiority over China, alas, it is all gone.

Human rights as defined by the USA Constitutions/Amendments are not "god given" nor based on some axiom of philosophy, but creatures of the human mind with certain outlook, as seen in Locke, Mills, Rosseau etc. These concepts are not universally accepted, not even in the USA -- observe the LACK OF EQUALITY OF EDUATIONAL OPPORTUNITY AND ITS CORRELATION TO QUALITY vs. CLASS STRUCTURE. So there is no "moral imperative" driving USA human rights BS.

China on the other hand does not claim to be a superpower, but has managed earth-shattering economic growth over the last 30 years, and has money to burn -- greatly increasing her soft power. China does not spout HUMAN RIGHTS LECTURES to other parties, does not invade other countries [Tibet was part of China for many years in past]. NEither is China [or India] trying to force her culture down other nation's throat. So China gains in all areas of soft power where the USA conception of Human Rights is not in vogue.

The Soft power of China extends to control of the USA economy in three respects:
1., financial due to their properties in USA Federal Treasury Bonds, and for commercial bonds.
2.,Economic, the USA is hooked on Chinese products due to outsourcing and competative prices. The wage inflation of China will soon translate into higher inflation within the USA.
3., China is hungry for raw materials, and due to large positive balance of payments she can afford to bid high for these goods, thus raising the price for the world [in USA funds, while often the price is static in EURO-s]. These goods can not be resourced without great time lag and economic power -- both in short supply.

This loss of soft power by the USA is the first sign of decline of the AMERICAN HEGEMONY, a process which will come to full fruition in less than 20 years - barring major change in USA socio/economic tendencies and concurrent major change in foreign policies of the White House.

It is always sad to see something pormising beig destroyed by greed and fatuous morality .. THE ESSENCE OF TEH GREEK TRAGEDY

China and India *own* the U.S. We have outsourced our jobs and technology to the extent that we have nothing they need beyond the willing slobs at home that eat up those low low WalMart specials. It matters very little if George Bush shows up or not. He has nothing left with which to bargain.