Do not give small children pop corn. One it is not as easy to digest the corn husks. Two little children can choke, it gets caught some place in the throat and or nasal. One absolutely beautiful two year old child, I knew in Arizona tragically became mentally retarded. The mother a nurse right there with the child. In a family pool and with several others around. Seconds, all it took! The oxygen cut off to the brain. He is living but not the same as this little curley haired blue eyed child was. His parents loveingly taking care of him and their others. Emotionally? Do not give pop corn to a small child. Stay close to them in cribs, playpens, around water and really every where you can. Seconds make a difference with water, peanut butter, peanuts many others. Just take care.
Feeling well!!! A nice soup!! How about a nice Jewish made chicken noodle. How about a nice minestrone. Loving it! You get a good mama or papa or chef who can cook these home made and your next to heaven. Oh gestapo soup!!! Ladies and gentlemen in the warm climate a cool cucumber is so divine. In the northern a nice german potatoe soup. Complement your meal, bread, bread stick, crackers and a warm drink sider or what ever. Complement with wine or water, tea.
What a glorious evening, lunch or dinner.
Take pictures on a cell phone into a computer, what about a computer made photo album, filed, your design, down load onto a computer photo wall, collage on the wall or your office.
Faster Wedding Photos into your disk and family photo collection gifts. The baby size for grandma and grandpa Catch that appraisal photo with a cell phone what about it combination of computer soft ware hard drive and poloroid. Someone else!!!! AMerican. Oh the golf turnament have a mint of an idea make it happen. The olympics.
God I love being American. No cash but ideas.
Catch ball, polo, swim all selected friends, work, religious group, news, happenings, network groups, make it happen network clusters and down load, photos, meetings, products, marketing and get to the store.
Fashion changes faster seconds, around the world. Who wants to be cookie cutters look when you can look like out of this world. Amasing swirls, cell selection, size, male, female, designer, color, shoes, skirt, length, sweater, look ahead, color, whats coming, fabric, what's out ther, swirles like tornadoes, hurricaning through space in cells toward you, selection by design, you and see ahead. Shoes, your outfit comes up with rotating selection of shoe heal size, boot, booty, slipper shoe, high heal, you photoed and sized in design, in your home. Special selection in the store. Down load the coupon but have to bring it in. SEE reserve and catch the fastest those hand made sweaters from Africa, from Italy from Paris, From France, the wine available and new classes, jewelery desing your own, sell it at the same time. One for you and one for them, luxury. God I love being American. Man oh man suits made for space design and travel, meeting and lounge or board room, what to travel in, how, meeting on the plane, then in the limosine, then on the ranch, sweet change fast coming through. Get it before the horse ride on the Arabian, or palamino, Raw, Delight, sweet, gentle, the touch, soft, petals of silk like a rose opening, to the full bloom, in a mans hand, oh my baby.
Take from the net to the stage show, the woman, the man, the child,, the weather so real , of sensual, and delightful. Oh Charlie I am dancing with you in outer space, for me a man and a woman a delight and real. Not just for the heart but for the soal. Got a letter oh dear in a second private cell a photo and me, perfune and a visual and seconds latter from the car he is stollen away into a world of play. Oh a letter from Maria come into this world in a special way. From outer space from heaven. A man a woman come and be a child again. A mary go round of play. In your home. imagination in the decoration changing rotating automatically, to the lighting to the flooring not cookie cutter.
Imagine the down side of China a major earth quake, like a cyclone their market folds. Bring the money home, bring the business home. bring the bank home and put it in America, take stock in America. and I believe that the great wall will fall. Then and Japan. We have had enough.
For around the world is what man can have in product and design and in the outer space. Oh God I love being American. Save Save Save and Buy and save and put it in reserve in the profit and loss statement. I love those diamonds from Africa, Oh I love those pearls from the deep blue sea , Oh I love those rubies and emeralds. Oh the sand stone. I love being American. I love my man. Charlie I love you.
Bear Huggin!! Lovin it and he is coming home.
Amen. Amen Amen Amen. Amen. Shop in the stores. Amen.
Make it a bear market for the USA Buy Real Estate a great place for a second home.
Regarding some of the Senators demand that American troops should be brought home by March 2008. I feel that security situation in America and the Western world will be thoroughly tested when the troops in Iraq are put off-duty.
America will also be in the midst of election season in March 08. Wouldn't that be a nightmarish situation for the security agencies?
We really aren't Rome nor should we aspire to be. But this soon will be a moot point as we are going to have to retrench and get our economic house in order. If things go well, we will have cuts in wasteful programs and subsidies, and also have higher taxes to get our budget back into the black. If not, our ouster as a world power will be thrust upon us within a decade or two. Military power rests upon economic power and if we can't pacify a country of 25 million people we are definitely no longer a superpower. The American Century is over.
I just returned from a four week vacation in Europe over the weekend and that trip confirms, to me at least, that America is doomed. To begin with, virtually eerything we read about Europe over here is simply an outright lie. The unemploymnet rate in Austria, for example, is 1.8%. In Germany is it 5%, and that includes the Easern portion of the country which is being rebuilt. In Western Germany it is closer to 1.5%! Moreover, Western European countries either have or are in line to pay off their national debts entirely by next year! Denark, Sweden, Austria, have NO national debt whatsoever. This in spite of their "expensive" national health care programs, their national retirement programs, average 5 weeks paid vacation every year, excellent mass transit systems, excellent schools, free universities (for their own citizens), etc. Pointing this out here elicits one of two responses from the right wing crackers: (1) they immediately post some piece of garbage from FOX or a similar sort media corporate mouthpiece that "claims" that European statisrics about economic growth aren't true, or (2) they says something like "well, if you like Europe so much, why don't you move there".
Europe owes it's economic miracle to two facts. First they DO NOT allow immigrants of any sort to take jobs from European citizens. You will not see Indian high tech workers. Europe produces enough for it's own needs, thank you! Western European countries actively seek out and deport illegal immigrants. And, Euopean countries control their corporations, limit political influence and money spent on political contributions by business, limit compensation given to corporate officiers and CEO's and board memebers, and they only participate in "globalization" if it provably helps their economy.
We, on the other hand, have corporations running roughshod over our own citizens. We permit them to control who is even moninated for politcial office by allowing them various means to provide the bulk of money for political campaigns. We allow them to employ cheap "guest workers" and engage in inhumane and immoral business practices that would land their officers in prison in Europe. We allow the rich to get away with paying far less than thier fair share of taxes. We elect politcians and permit them to act like they are above the law (I am think of Bush and his claims of "executive privilege" - an obvious dodge to avoid the truth coming out about his Administrations activities and something that *IS* being reported as such in Europe). As a society, we are corrupt, self serving, immoral, lazy and degenerate. We exhibit all of those things that saw Rome slide rapidly onto histories garbage heap. I don't believe we even have ten years left before the barbarian's - the illegals and guest workers used by the wealthy to provide cheap labor - drain us dry and encamp upon the rotting road kill that was once the United States. Both Bush and the entire Democratic leadership are responsible for this, but even more responsible are the lazy bargain hunting clods that compose the voting public. We're Rome and we're screwed quite simpy because we deserve it.
Were the USA Romanesque, we surely would have set up a new government on the island of Sumatra after we invaded to assist after the tsunami. The USA helped, and then left quietly, with no notice by anyone even now.
We have little or no control over anyone outside our borders. We did not set up governance in Iraq or Afghanistan, rather, we let both countries rule themselves - albeit poorly.
The USA would not be in Afghanistan if 9/11 didn't
happen. We were viciously attacked - Remember. We
might have gone into Iraq in spite of 9/11 because Saddam broke all the cease fire agreements he signed after the Gulf War. Saddam could have left Kuwait on his own instead of being thrown out. He
pushed the limits of the international community
in every respect, and our invasion was approved by
the U.N. and our own Congress - Remember!
Yes US today stands same position as once Rome was standing. Sole super power of the world.
There are many empires in the world. In fact every century has a history of a dominant power. Last century Europe was dominating where they have inside divisions.
Every empire when on the peak they start seeing all the world wth their eyes. They forget the universal principal and fundamentals of governing. They all have a strong milatery and technological as well as cultural advancement.
All empires when on peak start thinking that their civilization is superior and true. They ignore other cultures start humiliating other civilizations and engaged in fighting to show the strength.
History is very cruel for such empires. When these empires are at peak and start thinking that no enemy is alive on earth their down fall starts. they become history
This is a great question. As a country and a Culture America has been so used to being so far ahead with our economy and our military that it gave us a false sense of our selves as "better than the rest of the world". Now that our economy seems a little more fragile and a lot more dependant on what happens around the world and our military not as dominant as we think it should be; we are having a identity crisis as a culture. I dont think we are as sure of ourselves as we once were. What will determine the future, is can we remake ourselves or will we continue to do whatever we think is needed to maintain that false sense of supuriority.
Please reread David George above at 9:19 today. Necessary reading.
Most Americans, and certainly most of the world agrees with that post, including our angry international allies.
Do we have a "free press" or a controlled one? Read what Israel is doing in Gaza this week in the international press and then see if you get the story here? We never do.
Ah, but the congress gets so much campaign money that Americans needs come second.
Please reread David George above at 9:19 today. Necessary reading.
Most Americans, and certainly most of the world agrees with that post, including our angry international allies.
Do we have a "free press" or a controlled one? Read what Israel is doing in Gaza this week in the international press and then see if you get the story here? We never do.
Ah, but the congress gets so much campaign money that Americans needs come second.
As the author of the book under discussion ("Are We Rome? The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America") I've been following the conversation here with great interest. Maybe it would be helpful if I weighed in with a quick overview of what the book does and doesn't say.
Obviously ancient Rome and modern America are different in a thousand ways--and different in ways usually to America's advantage. America is a (messy) democracy, it is at heart (mostly) egalitarian, and it remains (for the moment) a middle-class nation; Rome was none of these things. America threw off slavery a century and a half ago; Rome never did. America is a hothouse of technological innovation; Rome was extraordinarily adept at applied technology, at engineering, but lacked that creative spark (perhaps because of slavery). One could go on and on pointing out differences. So let's simply concede them at the outset.
That said, there are some core similarities, and the differences don't cancel out those similarities or make them less worrisome. By way of analogy, an ocean liner may be different from a dinghy, but both can capsize and both can spring a leak.
The problematic similarities as I see them are these:
**artificial capital cities that suck wealth from everywhere and see themselves as the center of the world, with all the distortions of perception this entails.
**militaries that are too small to perform all the tasks being given to them but for whatever reason (politics, manpower, money) also too large to sustain.
**a hollowing out of government capacity as government functions are privatized--for instance, given over to outside contractors--and the line between public good and private interest blurs or vanishes.
**a lack of interest in, and awareness of, the outside world, coupled with an assumption that the outside world can be shaped at will, as necessary.
**a failure to understand the inevitable downside of bigness and complexity: the more things we touch, the more those things can touch us back, leading to cascades of consequences that are impossible to predict and control.
There is one more similarity, but it is largely a positive one: the ability of both Rome and America to assimilate newcomers in droves. In the popular depiction the outsiders--"barbarians"--are seen as bringing Rome down, but the more important story is one of successful assimilation over a period of half a millennium.
To the exttent that the similarities between America and Rome are problems, there may be no easy remedy. Some of the problems (bigness and complexity; an arrogant and solipsistic capital) are organic, built into the very nature of the beast. Others will take sustained effort to turn around. Certainly a clear lesson of history is that the present moment cannot be flash- frozen, and those who would try to "hold on" to America's position in the world at all costs, exactly as it is now, are destned to be disappointed. Sic transit gloria mundi, as the Romans would say.
But in my book I don't simply throw up my hands. If we define our aim not as the preservation of the status quo but rather as creating a healthier and happier society, then there's plenty we can do and should be doing.
As the author of the book under discussion ("Are We Rome? The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America") I've been following the conversation here with great interest. Maybe it would be helpful if I weighed in with a quick overview of what the book does and doesn't say.
Obviously ancient Rome and modern America are different in a thousand ways--and different in ways usually to America's advantage. America is a (messy) democracy, it is at heart (mostly) egalitarian, and it remains (for the moment) a middle-class nation; Rome was none of these things. America threw off slavery a century and a half ago; Rome never did. America is a hothouse of technological innovation; Rome was extraordinarily adept at applied technology, at engineering, but lacked that creative spark (perhaps because of slavery). One could go on and on pointing out differences. So let's simply concede them at the outset.
That said, there are some core similarities, and the differences don't cancel out those similarities or make them less worrisome. By way of analogy, an ocean liner may be different from a dinghy, but both can capsize and both can spring a leak.
The problematic similarities as I see them are these:
**artificial capital cities that suck wealth from everywhere and see themselves as the center of the world, with all the distortions of perception this entails.
**militaries that are too small to perform all the tasks being given to them but for whatever reason (politics, manpower, money) also too large to sustain.
**a hollowing out of government capacity as government functions are privatized--for instance, given over to outside contractors--and the line between public good and private interest blurs or vanishes.
**a lack of interest in, and awareness of, the outside world, coupled with an assumption that the outside world can be shaped at will, as necessary.
**a failure to understand the inevitable downside of bigness and complexity: the more things we touch, the more those things can touch us back, leading to cascades of consequences that are impossible to predict and control.
There is one more similarity, but it is largely a positive one: the ability of both Rome and America to assimilate newcomers in droves. In the popular depiction the outsiders--"barbarians"--are seen as bringing Rome down, but the more important story is one of successful assimilation over a period of half a millennium.
To the exttent that the similarities between America and Rome are problems, there may be no easy remedy. Some of the problems (bigness and complexity; an arrogant and solipsistic capital) are organic, built into the very nature of the beast. Others will take sustained effort to turn around. Certainly a clear lesson of history is that the present moment cannot be flash- frozen, and those who would try to "hold on" to America's position in the world at all costs, exactly as it is now, are destned to be disappointed. Sic transit gloria mundi, as the Romans would say.
But in my book I don't simply throw up my hands. If we define our aim not as the preservation of the status quo but rather as creating a healthier and happier society, then there's plenty we can do and should be doing.
Not having read the book, your question suggests histocal recurrences - the fall of civilizations, since humanit started. As the powerful Roman empire fell, our civilization is due to fall with the USA and all the other nations of the world. This scenario is inevitable, unless the humans on this earth learn by past experience and realize that the world is just ONE BIG BOAT, which can still navigate if we learn that having to live together, we decide to respect each other.
Larry Yates:
Good point! Let me add a bit more. We were portrayed as being a mirror image of our "foe" the Soviet Union in a very profound play shown at the Art Theatre in Gdinya Poland in 1986. The setting was the UN and the Russian delegate was short, stocky, and dark haired while the American deligate was tall and blond. In every other way they were the same. Bullies, arrogant, beligerent, etc. I now see that play as prophetic in a way. The second point is that to have a "foe" requires collusion implicitly. That may be hard to swallow, but think about it. In 1964, while living in Israel getting postdoctoral training in science, it became clear that the cold war was about keeping places like the middle east in turmoil so they could never yhreaten our (US and USSR) ability to go on raping as much of the world as possible. Will we ever learn?
America is not the Roman Empire, it is the Bush Empire.
There are too many Americans that do not like what the Bush America has done and will not let it continue. But change takes time, with the first significant shift away from Bush America coming in the last elections.
News organization like Fox News and The Washington Times do there best to keep the Bush Empire in power, using slight-of-hand reporting to fool conservative Americans. But these tricks can only be played so many times, and even hard-core conservatives have come to view Bush America as a menace.
So the comparing America to Rome is the wrong comparison, it should be Rome compared with Bush's America.
While many of the analogies regarding Rome and America are apt, Rome did not have to deal with a "single-issue" domestic lobby which is dedicated to another country. The domestic Jewish lobby dominates the discussion of Middle East policy within both political parties, intimidates non-ultra pro-Israel senators and representatives, and effectively censures any open factual discourse of Israel in the media.
The symbiotic relationship between the neo-imperialists, militarists, and the Jewish lobby has brought havoc to the Middle East and has compromised our constitutional republic, but don't expect to read or to hear about it from the media or a campaigning politican!
I have argued for some time that the USA is much more the mirror of its old foe, the Soviet Union, both run by kleptocracies.Like them, we are crude, brash and ideological, and have no respect for spiritual values.
However, if we do talk about Rome, we have to let go of the wrong ideas about the decline of the Roman Empire. This decline occurred only after the takeover of the Empire by the first top-down fundamentalist Christian regime, that of Constantine, Justinian, etc. Anti-Jewish, anti-homosexual and anti-heretical witch-hunts by Emperors using religion for their own purposes were the ones who set the stage for collapse. Nero and other decadents were much earlier historically, in fact before the widest extent of Rome's rule.
I have argued for some time that the USA is much more the mirror of its old foe, the Soviet Union, both run by kleptocracies.Like them, we are crude, brash and ideological, and have no respect for spiritual values.
However, if we do talk about Rome, we have to let go of the wrong ideas about the decline of the Roman Empire. This decline occurred only after the takeover of the Empire by the first top-down fundamentalist Christian regime, that of Constantine, Justinian, etc. Anti-Jewish, anti-homosexual and anti-heretical witch-hunts by Emperors using religion for their own purposes were the ones who set the stage for collapse. Nero and other decadents were much earlier historically, in fact before the widest extent of Rome's rule.
Yes, the United States Government has certainly become arrogant, but let's not forget that there a good many Americans who are just as disgusted as the rest of the world. There's nothing to be gained by bashing all of them.
I've studied in the US for nearly seven years and I can honestly tell you all that most Americans are terrified of their own government. The problem is that Americans who would like to change things will need help from the outside. While we stand on the outside looking in, all may seem rosy, but if you were to ask any American candidly how they feel about the current scenario and what they think it will bring, their response will undoubtedly change the way you perceive them.
You can't imagine how close they are to the edge over there. George Bush has more presidential powers than any other president in US history, powers well beyond what is necessary for national security. Most of those powers at his disposal would affect Americans ability to open a bank account, get a driver's license, travel or even get a job. I know many Europeans aren't happy about the many similar policies implemented by the EU, but what Americans will deal with in the near future will easily trump our problems.
Americans have, for the most part, have been there when the world needed heroes. Now it's time to return the favor. The greatest nation in the world is well on its way to becoming the greatest oppressor, and American citizens themselves are certain to be its first victims.
I think there are many paralells with Rome, but the late Republic of Rome, not yet the Empire.
This is about 90-100 BC, unregulated capitialism tied with mass immigration (slaves) is tearing apart the citizen base, social wars are raging,
citizen soldiers are being replaced by "proffessionals" serving for the paycheck. Wars being fought in the middle east, Democrats and Allies about to revolt, Sulla to return with the Army from the Mid East to "restore the Republic".
Oh, and our Spartacus is due in about another 20 years.
If we are paralleing Rome, we got another 500 years of excitment!
Are we Rome? Absolutely not, because people without history are a people without a memory. We the people both accept and expect the rewriting and revision of our own history until both are but a interchangeable blur. The Romans etched their history in stone while ours blows away much like the sands of Iraq and Afghanistan. We will never be the same again never mind mindless comparisons to an Empire.
We are not Rome. Rome was richer because of conquered lands.
We are poorer because we spend too much money for
useless wars.
The US has many people, unfortunately not our
present President or his close followers, who
understand our problems and have a knowledge of history, Rome included.
Hopefully, the US will get back on the right track
and continue as a great country. President Bush,
an illiterate in the subjects of history and culture, has done much to set us on the road to
doom, which the Roman empire traveled.
I think there are many paralells with Rome, but the late Republic of Rome, not yet the Empire.
This is about 90-100 BC, unregulated capitialism tied with mass immigration (slaves) is tearing apart the citizen base, social wars are raging,
citizen soldiers are being replaced by "proffessionals" serving for the paycheck. Wars being fought in the middle east, Democrats and Allies about to revolt, Sulla to return with the Army from the Mid East to "restore the Republic".
Oh, and our Spartacus is due in about another 20 years.
If we are paralleing Rome, we got another 500 years of excitment!
I think there are many paralells with Rome, but the late Republic of Rome, not yet the Empire.
This is about 90-100 BC, unregulated capitialism tied with mass immigration (slaves) is tearing apart the citizen base, social wars are raging,
citizen soldiers are being replaced by "proffessionals" serving for the paycheck. Wars being fought in the middle east, Democrats and Allies about to revolt, Sulla to return with the Army from the Mid East to "restore the Republic".
Oh, and our Spartacus is due in about another 20 years.
If we are paralleing Rome, we got another 500 years of excitment!
In response to several comments, I say this: If your so-called country, with its' 100 year history of racism, terrorism, opression, asassinations, media slandering, lies and covert government regime changes has any reasonable or moral defense, you wouldn't have to label everyone you don't like (which IS everyone)as a racist, that cute little catch-all slander known as "anti-semite."
In response to several comments, I say this: If your so-called country, with its' 100 year history of racism, terrorism, opression, asassinations, media slandering, lies and covert government regime changes has any reasonable or moral defense, you wouldn't have to label everyone you don't like (which IS everyone)as a racist, that cute little catch-all slander known as "anti-semite."
In response to several comments, I say this: If your so-called country, with its' 100 year history of racism, terrorism, opression, asassinations, media slandering, lies and covert government regime changes has any reasonable or moral defense, you wouldn't have to label everyone you don't like (which IS everyone)as a racist, that cute little catch-all slander known as "anti-semite."
YES!! History has shown that all great empires eventually fall. The US will be no different. The irony is that we, the people, have the power to avoid this unlike Rome did. However, we continue to allow our Government to rule us when in fact our constitution was written so as we could rule our Government. If the power were really in our hands, Bush/Cheney would be in jail, we would have never stayed in Iraq past year one, and our leaders would not be allowed to own holdings, within their immediate families, in companies that do direct business with our Country. However we are NOT in control. So, we are destine to fall harder than Rome.
Yes, the United States suffers from the Empire Syndrome. And Bush is like Nero fiddling whilst Rome burns. Of course I doubt Bush could master anything as complex as a fiddle (maybe a piece of paper wrapped around a comb).
Culturally decadent (Disney, Porno, drugs, torture, rocknroll, and money's worship are USAs' icons).
Military obsolete (because USA still fails to understand that WMDs neither can or will ever be used again after aug 9th 1945; that the huge resourses wasted in the development of weapons do not do not give back security of any kind; and that war is not a matter of technological superiority).
Economically more and more dependent on supplies of its competitors. USA's economists cannot explain why China's BNP is growing at ten times the rate of the States.
Politically violent, arrogant, brutal, egoistic, inlove with itself, incapable to understand the limitations carried by the ignorance of the world arround.
So the unavoidable collapse is getting closer. Eroded by the huge internal forces of what Ike called the militar complex, that demands and imposes the cultural, moral, political and economical bankruptcy that is coming next.
Time to "the end" is now measurable in decades; and not in centuries. However, the crash will be recorded, documented and remembered as Rome's: per secula seculorum. Amen!
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction? The answer comes to us in all the writings of the necons and in the "lock-box" Bush was put into instead of our social security taxes by Cheney, Rumsfeld, the oil barons, the Zionists and the Saudis-- making it a "perfect storm."
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction? The answer comes to us in all the writings of the necons and in the "lock-box" Bush was put into instead of our social security taxes by Cheney, Rumsfeld, the oil barons, the Zionists and the Saudis-- making it a "perfect storm."
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction? The answer comes to us in all the writing of the necons and in the "lock-box" Bush was put into instead of our social security taxes by Cheney, Rumsfeld, the oil barons, the Zionists and the Saudis-- making it a "perfect storm."
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction?
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC.
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesears and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and retiries living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoeples of europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its loby AIPAC.
One observation would be to give the populace "Bread and Circuses" Our 24/7 hum on the thousands of channels, paris hiltons, more stadiums, more distractions for the eyes of the untrained thinkers, some of who even graduate from our public schools. Rome would be proud.
Reuters today notes that a
Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken last July shows that fully 1/3 of Americans think "US officials" were responsible for 9/11 or knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
If things haven't changed, (and who thinks people trust their government more today?)...the opposite is true....then that's a very, very frightening poll.
Reuters today notes that a
Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken last July shows that fully 1/3 of Americans think "US officials" were responsible for 9/11 or knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
If things haven't changed, and who thinks people trust their government more today...the opposite is true....then that's a very, very frightening poll.
Reuters today notes that a
Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken last July shows that fully 1/3 of Americans think "US officials" were responsible for 9/11 or knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
If things haven't changed, and who thinks people trust their government more today...the opposite is ture....then that's a very, very frightening poll.
There are many parallels between Rome and the US apart from both being empires. For those who snivel at the term empire when applied to the US, please refer to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc..oh, and Guantanamo. Most probably Texas as well. And the Black Hills, no doubt.
The forces of the United States military are located in nearly 130 countries around the world performing a variety of duties from combat operations, to peacekeeping, to training with foreign militaries. [...]
If one were to include these [standing overseas] forces the number of deployed troops worldwide would be around 350,000.'
Robert Los Angeles, 1:36 July 6th.
IS it disputable that those who wanted Iraq attacked, who currently push for bombing Iran are Olmert, Lieberman, Livi, etc.,
...that the war to take down iraq, Iran and Syria was written by Wolfowitz and Perle, and Libby and, etc.,?
They are, what, Irishmen? Italians? Arabs?
Robert Los Angeles, 1:36 July 6th.
IS it disputable that those who wanted Iraq attacked, who currently push for bombing Iran are Olmert, Lieberman, Livi, etc.,
...that the war to take down iraq, Iran and Syria was written by Wolfowitz and Perle, and Libby and, etc.,?
They are, what, Irishmen? Italians? Arabs?
Robert Los Angeles, 1:36 July 6th.
IS it disputable that those who wanted Iraq attacked, who currently push for bombing Iran are Olmert, Lieberman, Livi, etc.,
...that the war to take down iraq, Iran and Syria was written by Wolfowitz and Perle, and Libby and, etc.,?
They are, what, Irishmen? Italians? Arabs?
America must continue to kill the poorest people in the world to remain the richest country in the world. America has jumped the shark because the world understands the true nature of America.
A fascinating question. I will try to answer it by taking a different tack from many other excellent answers to this question. I propose to answer it by comparing America to Rome, India and China.
Roughly speaking we can say the Roman, Indian and Chinese worlds were/are worlds which for most of their existence depended on not technology/science for social order but rather strove for social order in the absence of a conception of science/technology. Rome of course had a powerful military and lawgiving society. India had a powerful caste system. And China was perhaps the most sophisticated in that instead of a move from a religious conception of the world toward one of natural science as in the West China moved from religious conceptions to increasingly sophisticated man-made conceptions of the social order. In other words China is perhaps the epitome of pure conceptions on social problems in the absence of any scientific/technological conception of the world. Of course China invented the compass, gunpowder, etc.--did have a sophisticated scientific/technological component--but the emphasis was on a continuing meditation on social problems, and religion was overcome through a meditation on social problems rather than through natural science as in the West.
Now take America. America is heir to the Western approach to the world. Furthermore America is heir to the scientific/technological advancement in the Western world. My belief is that America is way too overbalanced in the direction of using science/technology to solve social problems and this sharply distinguishes it from Rome, India and especially the Chinese heritage.
Of course it can be argued that it is better to be overbalanced in this direction because we can hardly want to approach the world (and social problems) like Rome, India and China did, but the big question is whether we can solve social problems better than previous civilizations with our scientific/technological advancement. I would say America is in serious trouble because although having moved out of religious views of the world in the natural science department, these religious views still have a firm hold in the social department. In fact the U.S. is locked into a firm Constitution undergirded by religion and when society is conceived in a secular fashion (as it is with left wing trends) it is very unsatisfactory. All across the board our social conception lags behind science/technology and we even assume whether left or right wing that it is some sort of good thing to have science/technology spread around the world as if apply the both and all nations will rise up to democracy or something.
I seriously question the Western emphasis on science/technology in general. Scientists often boast that Western society is best because it gave birth to science, but the continued course of science is dependent on the continuation of society, civilization,--the thrust of meditating on and conceiving solutions to social problems. China or Rome might not have had the sophisticated science we have but they demonstrated (and China still does) continuing survival. Science/technology should increase our survival chances, not make up for an inability to solve social problems--and fail to make up for this inability.
I would say that America will indeed come to resemble Rome if science/technology fails to overcome social problems and we cannot solve social problems in a manner superior to Rome (and without science/technology). Furthermore with every failure to correctly understand the role of science/technology and to improve on our social conceptions China will by default move into the preeminant position.
I flat out dislike trying to keep America socially tethered to religion, the U.S. Constitution or left wing views of the world. What society is and how it can by improved should always be an open question. By tethering society to divine conceptions of how it should be run or natural law (which too often means divine conceptions in a slightly more secular guise--like the difference between Creationism and intelligent design plaguing scientific circles these days) we stifle the development of society and make it dependent on other factors the more our social conceptions fail. We are doing this now in fact with our dependence on science, technology, crass consumerism, etc. We are failing to constantly meditate on the social problem, to constantly reinvent society out of our own minds.
I hope I have satisfactorily answered the question. I have nothing more to say on the matter. I hope America does not have to become Rome.
I remember when the airplane hit the pentagon from my attic room in a row house on 14th and Buchanan listening to commentaries on the radio when most Americans for the first time started to actually pose the question why others might hate them. This potentially fruitful dialogue lasted less than 24 hours when suddenly no one was reflecting on the why but all of a sudden discussing alternative forms of retaliation.
I think that it was in that 24-hour window that the chance to elongate US hegemony was discursively lost forever, contrary to what "Voice from Europe" believes.
I am saddened that it has taken us so many Fourth of July's to reach this point of open reflection (again), because I am afraid that it is far too late.
Surely there are many parallels between the decline of Rome and our own. Both Rome and the British Empire came to grief in Mesopotamia. We are told we have the greatest Army in the world since Rome. Actually, what we have is a clumsy, overweaponed force that is entirely mismatched to the mission in Iraq. It is overstretched and exhausted and cracking, confounded by small bunches of insurgents and criminals with light weapons and some explosives and a burning hatred so fierce that no atrocity is beyond them. Our military is led by careerist generals who spin the disaster shamelessly and whose allegiance seems mostly to their own advancement, not to the troops and not to the Constitution and not to good military sense. This Army can't even protect its own ranks and outposts, let alone establish order and security for the populace, who mostly just hate us, naturally, as their alien occupiers. The more Iraqi civilians killed and maimed by this largely Christian army we've stranded in a hostile Muslim land, the more hate we accrue, and the more danger of terrorist blowback we incur. Our own generals tell Bush there is no military solution. Now, 80 percent of Iraqis want us gone, and 50 percent want us dead, polling tell us. Our flak-jacketed diplomats scarcely dare venture out of their mess halls and apartments in the Green Zone let alone into Baghdad's streets. Our monstrous new embassy is a ghastly monument to ruinous fiscal and strategic folly. We've been in Iraq four years and things get worse and worse day by bloody day. What are we getting for our $9 billion a month? Death and horror and more danger to the national interest? How many more lives will we flush down the rat hole of neocon delusions and media servility and the jingoism of the Loyal Bushies? IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST LEST HE BOMB IRAN AND MAKE THINGS EVEN WORSE.
I wonder if the authors are confusing the arrogance of a particular Presidential administration with a global arrogance on the part of the United States' citizenry. It is a fact of history that the change from one administration to another can often thoroughly alter the stance of the US toward the world. In five years, for example, it is entirely possible that we will be criticized for being too passive and restrained while some civil war or genocide rages. There is a lot of disagreement among the US populace with the stance taken by the current administration toward the world, and it's extremely easy for citizens of smaller or weaker countries to throw around the word "arrogance" when they don't like a US policy. But give us time-- eventually we will swing back around to a position you can agree with. And then we won't be arrogant anymore-- we'll be a responsible world power.
The US position in the world is not so much a parallel to Rome, but more of a continuation of the same forces. In other words, Rome didn't fall as much as it moved, expanded, mutated.
The US position in the world is not so much a parallel to Rome, but more of a continuation of the same forces. In other words, Rome didn't fall as much as it moved, expanded, mutated.
I am sorry but I have to disagree with almost all of you in your assumption that the dynamics of nations today have a close comparison with past history.
It's all about corporations not countries. Big money and Corporations put people into office and when they don't have their cronies in office, they lobby and lobby.
The distinction is blurred in some countries where the collusion between big corporations and government is so great, that the government is an extension of the business.
America was a great nation. We have lost our way and perhaps a few years from now, we can begin to find ourselves again.
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (174)
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December 12, 2007 8:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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December 12, 2007 5:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Dear Friends:
Do not give small children pop corn. One it is not as easy to digest the corn husks. Two little children can choke, it gets caught some place in the throat and or nasal. One absolutely beautiful two year old child, I knew in Arizona tragically became mentally retarded. The mother a nurse right there with the child. In a family pool and with several others around. Seconds, all it took! The oxygen cut off to the brain. He is living but not the same as this little curley haired blue eyed child was. His parents loveingly taking care of him and their others. Emotionally? Do not give pop corn to a small child. Stay close to them in cribs, playpens, around water and really every where you can. Seconds make a difference with water, peanut butter, peanuts many others. Just take care.
Feeling well!!! A nice soup!! How about a nice Jewish made chicken noodle. How about a nice minestrone. Loving it! You get a good mama or papa or chef who can cook these home made and your next to heaven. Oh gestapo soup!!! Ladies and gentlemen in the warm climate a cool cucumber is so divine. In the northern a nice german potatoe soup. Complement your meal, bread, bread stick, crackers and a warm drink sider or what ever. Complement with wine or water, tea.
What a glorious evening, lunch or dinner.
Take pictures on a cell phone into a computer, what about a computer made photo album, filed, your design, down load onto a computer photo wall, collage on the wall or your office.
Faster Wedding Photos into your disk and family photo collection gifts. The baby size for grandma and grandpa Catch that appraisal photo with a cell phone what about it combination of computer soft ware hard drive and poloroid. Someone else!!!! AMerican. Oh the golf turnament have a mint of an idea make it happen. The olympics.
God I love being American. No cash but ideas.
Catch ball, polo, swim all selected friends, work, religious group, news, happenings, network groups, make it happen network clusters and down load, photos, meetings, products, marketing and get to the store.
Fashion changes faster seconds, around the world. Who wants to be cookie cutters look when you can look like out of this world. Amasing swirls, cell selection, size, male, female, designer, color, shoes, skirt, length, sweater, look ahead, color, whats coming, fabric, what's out ther, swirles like tornadoes, hurricaning through space in cells toward you, selection by design, you and see ahead. Shoes, your outfit comes up with rotating selection of shoe heal size, boot, booty, slipper shoe, high heal, you photoed and sized in design, in your home. Special selection in the store. Down load the coupon but have to bring it in. SEE reserve and catch the fastest those hand made sweaters from Africa, from Italy from Paris, From France, the wine available and new classes, jewelery desing your own, sell it at the same time. One for you and one for them, luxury. God I love being American. Man oh man suits made for space design and travel, meeting and lounge or board room, what to travel in, how, meeting on the plane, then in the limosine, then on the ranch, sweet change fast coming through. Get it before the horse ride on the Arabian, or palamino, Raw, Delight, sweet, gentle, the touch, soft, petals of silk like a rose opening, to the full bloom, in a mans hand, oh my baby.
Take from the net to the stage show, the woman, the man, the child,, the weather so real , of sensual, and delightful. Oh Charlie I am dancing with you in outer space, for me a man and a woman a delight and real. Not just for the heart but for the soal. Got a letter oh dear in a second private cell a photo and me, perfune and a visual and seconds latter from the car he is stollen away into a world of play. Oh a letter from Maria come into this world in a special way. From outer space from heaven. A man a woman come and be a child again. A mary go round of play. In your home. imagination in the decoration changing rotating automatically, to the lighting to the flooring not cookie cutter.
Imagine the down side of China a major earth quake, like a cyclone their market folds. Bring the money home, bring the business home. bring the bank home and put it in America, take stock in America. and I believe that the great wall will fall. Then and Japan. We have had enough.
For around the world is what man can have in product and design and in the outer space. Oh God I love being American. Save Save Save and Buy and save and put it in reserve in the profit and loss statement. I love those diamonds from Africa, Oh I love those pearls from the deep blue sea , Oh I love those rubies and emeralds. Oh the sand stone. I love being American. I love my man. Charlie I love you.
Bear Huggin!! Lovin it and he is coming home.
Amen. Amen Amen Amen. Amen. Shop in the stores. Amen.
Make it a bear market for the USA Buy Real Estate a great place for a second home.
September 27, 2007 11:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Regarding some of the Senators demand that American troops should be brought home by March 2008. I feel that security situation in America and the Western world will be thoroughly tested when the troops in Iraq are put off-duty.
America will also be in the midst of election season in March 08. Wouldn't that be a nightmarish situation for the security agencies?
July 11, 2007 11:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
We really aren't Rome nor should we aspire to be. But this soon will be a moot point as we are going to have to retrench and get our economic house in order. If things go well, we will have cuts in wasteful programs and subsidies, and also have higher taxes to get our budget back into the black. If not, our ouster as a world power will be thrust upon us within a decade or two. Military power rests upon economic power and if we can't pacify a country of 25 million people we are definitely no longer a superpower. The American Century is over.
July 9, 2007 11:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I just returned from a four week vacation in Europe over the weekend and that trip confirms, to me at least, that America is doomed. To begin with, virtually eerything we read about Europe over here is simply an outright lie. The unemploymnet rate in Austria, for example, is 1.8%. In Germany is it 5%, and that includes the Easern portion of the country which is being rebuilt. In Western Germany it is closer to 1.5%! Moreover, Western European countries either have or are in line to pay off their national debts entirely by next year! Denark, Sweden, Austria, have NO national debt whatsoever. This in spite of their "expensive" national health care programs, their national retirement programs, average 5 weeks paid vacation every year, excellent mass transit systems, excellent schools, free universities (for their own citizens), etc. Pointing this out here elicits one of two responses from the right wing crackers: (1) they immediately post some piece of garbage from FOX or a similar sort media corporate mouthpiece that "claims" that European statisrics about economic growth aren't true, or (2) they says something like "well, if you like Europe so much, why don't you move there".
Europe owes it's economic miracle to two facts. First they DO NOT allow immigrants of any sort to take jobs from European citizens. You will not see Indian high tech workers. Europe produces enough for it's own needs, thank you! Western European countries actively seek out and deport illegal immigrants. And, Euopean countries control their corporations, limit political influence and money spent on political contributions by business, limit compensation given to corporate officiers and CEO's and board memebers, and they only participate in "globalization" if it provably helps their economy.
We, on the other hand, have corporations running roughshod over our own citizens. We permit them to control who is even moninated for politcial office by allowing them various means to provide the bulk of money for political campaigns. We allow them to employ cheap "guest workers" and engage in inhumane and immoral business practices that would land their officers in prison in Europe. We allow the rich to get away with paying far less than thier fair share of taxes. We elect politcians and permit them to act like they are above the law (I am think of Bush and his claims of "executive privilege" - an obvious dodge to avoid the truth coming out about his Administrations activities and something that *IS* being reported as such in Europe). As a society, we are corrupt, self serving, immoral, lazy and degenerate. We exhibit all of those things that saw Rome slide rapidly onto histories garbage heap. I don't believe we even have ten years left before the barbarian's - the illegals and guest workers used by the wealthy to provide cheap labor - drain us dry and encamp upon the rotting road kill that was once the United States. Both Bush and the entire Democratic leadership are responsible for this, but even more responsible are the lazy bargain hunting clods that compose the voting public. We're Rome and we're screwed quite simpy because we deserve it.
July 9, 2007 11:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Georgio : How do you know that 'David G.' stands for 'David George'? I believe that you are simply trying to attract attention to your own posts.
July 9, 2007 11:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Were the USA Romanesque, we surely would have set up a new government on the island of Sumatra after we invaded to assist after the tsunami. The USA helped, and then left quietly, with no notice by anyone even now.
We have little or no control over anyone outside our borders. We did not set up governance in Iraq or Afghanistan, rather, we let both countries rule themselves - albeit poorly.
The USA would not be in Afghanistan if 9/11 didn't
happen. We were viciously attacked - Remember. We
might have gone into Iraq in spite of 9/11 because Saddam broke all the cease fire agreements he signed after the Gulf War. Saddam could have left Kuwait on his own instead of being thrown out. He
pushed the limits of the international community
in every respect, and our invasion was approved by
the U.N. and our own Congress - Remember!
July 9, 2007 9:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Yes US today stands same position as once Rome was standing. Sole super power of the world.
There are many empires in the world. In fact every century has a history of a dominant power. Last century Europe was dominating where they have inside divisions.
Every empire when on the peak they start seeing all the world wth their eyes. They forget the universal principal and fundamentals of governing. They all have a strong milatery and technological as well as cultural advancement.
All empires when on peak start thinking that their civilization is superior and true. They ignore other cultures start humiliating other civilizations and engaged in fighting to show the strength.
History is very cruel for such empires. When these empires are at peak and start thinking that no enemy is alive on earth their down fall starts. they become history
July 9, 2007 1:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
THANK YOU ALL.
July 8, 2007 9:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This is a great question. As a country and a Culture America has been so used to being so far ahead with our economy and our military that it gave us a false sense of our selves as "better than the rest of the world". Now that our economy seems a little more fragile and a lot more dependant on what happens around the world and our military not as dominant as we think it should be; we are having a identity crisis as a culture. I dont think we are as sure of ourselves as we once were. What will determine the future, is can we remake ourselves or will we continue to do whatever we think is needed to maintain that false sense of supuriority.
July 8, 2007 2:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Please reread David George above at 9:19 today. Necessary reading.
Most Americans, and certainly most of the world agrees with that post, including our angry international allies.
Do we have a "free press" or a controlled one? Read what Israel is doing in Gaza this week in the international press and then see if you get the story here? We never do.
Ah, but the congress gets so much campaign money that Americans needs come second.
July 8, 2007 1:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Please reread David George above at 9:19 today. Necessary reading.
Most Americans, and certainly most of the world agrees with that post, including our angry international allies.
Do we have a "free press" or a controlled one? Read what Israel is doing in Gaza this week in the international press and then see if you get the story here? We never do.
Ah, but the congress gets so much campaign money that Americans needs come second.
July 8, 2007 1:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
As the author of the book under discussion ("Are We Rome? The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America") I've been following the conversation here with great interest. Maybe it would be helpful if I weighed in with a quick overview of what the book does and doesn't say.
Obviously ancient Rome and modern America are different in a thousand ways--and different in ways usually to America's advantage. America is a (messy) democracy, it is at heart (mostly) egalitarian, and it remains (for the moment) a middle-class nation; Rome was none of these things. America threw off slavery a century and a half ago; Rome never did. America is a hothouse of technological innovation; Rome was extraordinarily adept at applied technology, at engineering, but lacked that creative spark (perhaps because of slavery). One could go on and on pointing out differences. So let's simply concede them at the outset.
That said, there are some core similarities, and the differences don't cancel out those similarities or make them less worrisome. By way of analogy, an ocean liner may be different from a dinghy, but both can capsize and both can spring a leak.
The problematic similarities as I see them are these:
**artificial capital cities that suck wealth from everywhere and see themselves as the center of the world, with all the distortions of perception this entails.
**militaries that are too small to perform all the tasks being given to them but for whatever reason (politics, manpower, money) also too large to sustain.
**a hollowing out of government capacity as government functions are privatized--for instance, given over to outside contractors--and the line between public good and private interest blurs or vanishes.
**a lack of interest in, and awareness of, the outside world, coupled with an assumption that the outside world can be shaped at will, as necessary.
**a failure to understand the inevitable downside of bigness and complexity: the more things we touch, the more those things can touch us back, leading to cascades of consequences that are impossible to predict and control.
There is one more similarity, but it is largely a positive one: the ability of both Rome and America to assimilate newcomers in droves. In the popular depiction the outsiders--"barbarians"--are seen as bringing Rome down, but the more important story is one of successful assimilation over a period of half a millennium.
To the exttent that the similarities between America and Rome are problems, there may be no easy remedy. Some of the problems (bigness and complexity; an arrogant and solipsistic capital) are organic, built into the very nature of the beast. Others will take sustained effort to turn around. Certainly a clear lesson of history is that the present moment cannot be flash- frozen, and those who would try to "hold on" to America's position in the world at all costs, exactly as it is now, are destned to be disappointed. Sic transit gloria mundi, as the Romans would say.
But in my book I don't simply throw up my hands. If we define our aim not as the preservation of the status quo but rather as creating a healthier and happier society, then there's plenty we can do and should be doing.
July 8, 2007 8:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
As the author of the book under discussion ("Are We Rome? The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America") I've been following the conversation here with great interest. Maybe it would be helpful if I weighed in with a quick overview of what the book does and doesn't say.
Obviously ancient Rome and modern America are different in a thousand ways--and different in ways usually to America's advantage. America is a (messy) democracy, it is at heart (mostly) egalitarian, and it remains (for the moment) a middle-class nation; Rome was none of these things. America threw off slavery a century and a half ago; Rome never did. America is a hothouse of technological innovation; Rome was extraordinarily adept at applied technology, at engineering, but lacked that creative spark (perhaps because of slavery). One could go on and on pointing out differences. So let's simply concede them at the outset.
That said, there are some core similarities, and the differences don't cancel out those similarities or make them less worrisome. By way of analogy, an ocean liner may be different from a dinghy, but both can capsize and both can spring a leak.
The problematic similarities as I see them are these:
**artificial capital cities that suck wealth from everywhere and see themselves as the center of the world, with all the distortions of perception this entails.
**militaries that are too small to perform all the tasks being given to them but for whatever reason (politics, manpower, money) also too large to sustain.
**a hollowing out of government capacity as government functions are privatized--for instance, given over to outside contractors--and the line between public good and private interest blurs or vanishes.
**a lack of interest in, and awareness of, the outside world, coupled with an assumption that the outside world can be shaped at will, as necessary.
**a failure to understand the inevitable downside of bigness and complexity: the more things we touch, the more those things can touch us back, leading to cascades of consequences that are impossible to predict and control.
There is one more similarity, but it is largely a positive one: the ability of both Rome and America to assimilate newcomers in droves. In the popular depiction the outsiders--"barbarians"--are seen as bringing Rome down, but the more important story is one of successful assimilation over a period of half a millennium.
To the exttent that the similarities between America and Rome are problems, there may be no easy remedy. Some of the problems (bigness and complexity; an arrogant and solipsistic capital) are organic, built into the very nature of the beast. Others will take sustained effort to turn around. Certainly a clear lesson of history is that the present moment cannot be flash- frozen, and those who would try to "hold on" to America's position in the world at all costs, exactly as it is now, are destned to be disappointed. Sic transit gloria mundi, as the Romans would say.
But in my book I don't simply throw up my hands. If we define our aim not as the preservation of the status quo but rather as creating a healthier and happier society, then there's plenty we can do and should be doing.
July 8, 2007 8:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Not having read the book, your question suggests histocal recurrences - the fall of civilizations, since humanit started. As the powerful Roman empire fell, our civilization is due to fall with the USA and all the other nations of the world. This scenario is inevitable, unless the humans on this earth learn by past experience and realize that the world is just ONE BIG BOAT, which can still navigate if we learn that having to live together, we decide to respect each other.
July 8, 2007 5:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
' We are more British, more democratic and more governed by common sense. '
If the 'we' you refer to are Brits or Yanks, the people who elected Bush and Blair not once but twice, common sense would appear to be somewhat rare.
July 8, 2007 4:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
' We are more British, more democratic and more governed by common sense. '
If the 'we' you refer to are Brits or Yanks, the people who elected Bush and Blair not once but twice, common sense would appear to be somewhat rare.
July 8, 2007 4:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
' We are more British, more democratic and more governed by common sense. '
If the 'we' you refer to are Brits or Yanks, the people who elected Bush and Blair not once but twice, common sense would appear to be somewhat rare.
July 8, 2007 3:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Larry Yates:
Good point! Let me add a bit more. We were portrayed as being a mirror image of our "foe" the Soviet Union in a very profound play shown at the Art Theatre in Gdinya Poland in 1986. The setting was the UN and the Russian delegate was short, stocky, and dark haired while the American deligate was tall and blond. In every other way they were the same. Bullies, arrogant, beligerent, etc. I now see that play as prophetic in a way. The second point is that to have a "foe" requires collusion implicitly. That may be hard to swallow, but think about it. In 1964, while living in Israel getting postdoctoral training in science, it became clear that the cold war was about keeping places like the middle east in turmoil so they could never yhreaten our (US and USSR) ability to go on raping as much of the world as possible. Will we ever learn?
July 7, 2007 11:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
America is not the Roman Empire, it is the Bush Empire.
There are too many Americans that do not like what the Bush America has done and will not let it continue. But change takes time, with the first significant shift away from Bush America coming in the last elections.
News organization like Fox News and The Washington Times do there best to keep the Bush Empire in power, using slight-of-hand reporting to fool conservative Americans. But these tricks can only be played so many times, and even hard-core conservatives have come to view Bush America as a menace.
So the comparing America to Rome is the wrong comparison, it should be Rome compared with Bush's America.
July 7, 2007 10:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Rome fell from over indulgence and repression of democracy. We are more British, more democratic and more governed by common sense.
July 7, 2007 10:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Rome fell from over indulgence and repression of democracy. We are more British, more democratic and more governed by common sense.
July 7, 2007 10:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Rome fell from over indulgence and repression of democracy. We are more British, more democratic and more governed by common sense.
July 7, 2007 10:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
While many of the analogies regarding Rome and America are apt, Rome did not have to deal with a "single-issue" domestic lobby which is dedicated to another country. The domestic Jewish lobby dominates the discussion of Middle East policy within both political parties, intimidates non-ultra pro-Israel senators and representatives, and effectively censures any open factual discourse of Israel in the media.
The symbiotic relationship between the neo-imperialists, militarists, and the Jewish lobby has brought havoc to the Middle East and has compromised our constitutional republic, but don't expect to read or to hear about it from the media or a campaigning politican!
July 7, 2007 9:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I have argued for some time that the USA is much more the mirror of its old foe, the Soviet Union, both run by kleptocracies.Like them, we are crude, brash and ideological, and have no respect for spiritual values.
However, if we do talk about Rome, we have to let go of the wrong ideas about the decline of the Roman Empire. This decline occurred only after the takeover of the Empire by the first top-down fundamentalist Christian regime, that of Constantine, Justinian, etc. Anti-Jewish, anti-homosexual and anti-heretical witch-hunts by Emperors using religion for their own purposes were the ones who set the stage for collapse. Nero and other decadents were much earlier historically, in fact before the widest extent of Rome's rule.
July 7, 2007 9:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I have argued for some time that the USA is much more the mirror of its old foe, the Soviet Union, both run by kleptocracies.Like them, we are crude, brash and ideological, and have no respect for spiritual values.
However, if we do talk about Rome, we have to let go of the wrong ideas about the decline of the Roman Empire. This decline occurred only after the takeover of the Empire by the first top-down fundamentalist Christian regime, that of Constantine, Justinian, etc. Anti-Jewish, anti-homosexual and anti-heretical witch-hunts by Emperors using religion for their own purposes were the ones who set the stage for collapse. Nero and other decadents were much earlier historically, in fact before the widest extent of Rome's rule.
July 7, 2007 9:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Yes, the United States Government has certainly become arrogant, but let's not forget that there a good many Americans who are just as disgusted as the rest of the world. There's nothing to be gained by bashing all of them.
I've studied in the US for nearly seven years and I can honestly tell you all that most Americans are terrified of their own government. The problem is that Americans who would like to change things will need help from the outside. While we stand on the outside looking in, all may seem rosy, but if you were to ask any American candidly how they feel about the current scenario and what they think it will bring, their response will undoubtedly change the way you perceive them.
You can't imagine how close they are to the edge over there. George Bush has more presidential powers than any other president in US history, powers well beyond what is necessary for national security. Most of those powers at his disposal would affect Americans ability to open a bank account, get a driver's license, travel or even get a job. I know many Europeans aren't happy about the many similar policies implemented by the EU, but what Americans will deal with in the near future will easily trump our problems.
Americans have, for the most part, have been there when the world needed heroes. Now it's time to return the favor. The greatest nation in the world is well on its way to becoming the greatest oppressor, and American citizens themselves are certain to be its first victims.
July 7, 2007 8:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Rome fell and we went into what's called the dark ages.
July 7, 2007 8:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Rome fell and we went into what's called the dark ages.
July 7, 2007 8:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I think there are many paralells with Rome, but the late Republic of Rome, not yet the Empire.
This is about 90-100 BC, unregulated capitialism tied with mass immigration (slaves) is tearing apart the citizen base, social wars are raging,
citizen soldiers are being replaced by "proffessionals" serving for the paycheck. Wars being fought in the middle east, Democrats and Allies about to revolt, Sulla to return with the Army from the Mid East to "restore the Republic".
Oh, and our Spartacus is due in about another 20 years.
If we are paralleing Rome, we got another 500 years of excitment!
July 7, 2007 8:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Are we Rome? Absolutely not, because people without history are a people without a memory. We the people both accept and expect the rewriting and revision of our own history until both are but a interchangeable blur. The Romans etched their history in stone while ours blows away much like the sands of Iraq and Afghanistan. We will never be the same again never mind mindless comparisons to an Empire.
July 7, 2007 7:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
We are not Rome. Rome was richer because of conquered lands.
We are poorer because we spend too much money for
useless wars.
The US has many people, unfortunately not our
present President or his close followers, who
understand our problems and have a knowledge of history, Rome included.
Hopefully, the US will get back on the right track
and continue as a great country. President Bush,
an illiterate in the subjects of history and culture, has done much to set us on the road to
doom, which the Roman empire traveled.
July 7, 2007 7:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I think there are many paralells with Rome, but the late Republic of Rome, not yet the Empire.
This is about 90-100 BC, unregulated capitialism tied with mass immigration (slaves) is tearing apart the citizen base, social wars are raging,
citizen soldiers are being replaced by "proffessionals" serving for the paycheck. Wars being fought in the middle east, Democrats and Allies about to revolt, Sulla to return with the Army from the Mid East to "restore the Republic".
Oh, and our Spartacus is due in about another 20 years.
If we are paralleing Rome, we got another 500 years of excitment!
July 7, 2007 6:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I think there are many paralells with Rome, but the late Republic of Rome, not yet the Empire.
This is about 90-100 BC, unregulated capitialism tied with mass immigration (slaves) is tearing apart the citizen base, social wars are raging,
citizen soldiers are being replaced by "proffessionals" serving for the paycheck. Wars being fought in the middle east, Democrats and Allies about to revolt, Sulla to return with the Army from the Mid East to "restore the Republic".
Oh, and our Spartacus is due in about another 20 years.
If we are paralleing Rome, we got another 500 years of excitment!
July 7, 2007 6:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In response to several comments, I say this: If your so-called country, with its' 100 year history of racism, terrorism, opression, asassinations, media slandering, lies and covert government regime changes has any reasonable or moral defense, you wouldn't have to label everyone you don't like (which IS everyone)as a racist, that cute little catch-all slander known as "anti-semite."
July 7, 2007 6:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In response to several comments, I say this: If your so-called country, with its' 100 year history of racism, terrorism, opression, asassinations, media slandering, lies and covert government regime changes has any reasonable or moral defense, you wouldn't have to label everyone you don't like (which IS everyone)as a racist, that cute little catch-all slander known as "anti-semite."
July 7, 2007 6:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In response to several comments, I say this: If your so-called country, with its' 100 year history of racism, terrorism, opression, asassinations, media slandering, lies and covert government regime changes has any reasonable or moral defense, you wouldn't have to label everyone you don't like (which IS everyone)as a racist, that cute little catch-all slander known as "anti-semite."
July 7, 2007 6:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
YES!! History has shown that all great empires eventually fall. The US will be no different. The irony is that we, the people, have the power to avoid this unlike Rome did. However, we continue to allow our Government to rule us when in fact our constitution was written so as we could rule our Government. If the power were really in our hands, Bush/Cheney would be in jail, we would have never stayed in Iraq past year one, and our leaders would not be allowed to own holdings, within their immediate families, in companies that do direct business with our Country. However we are NOT in control. So, we are destine to fall harder than Rome.
July 7, 2007 6:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Yes, the United States suffers from the Empire Syndrome. And Bush is like Nero fiddling whilst Rome burns. Of course I doubt Bush could master anything as complex as a fiddle (maybe a piece of paper wrapped around a comb).
July 7, 2007 5:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Of course it is the Rome of the last days:
Culturally decadent (Disney, Porno, drugs, torture, rocknroll, and money's worship are USAs' icons).
Military obsolete (because USA still fails to understand that WMDs neither can or will ever be used again after aug 9th 1945; that the huge resourses wasted in the development of weapons do not do not give back security of any kind; and that war is not a matter of technological superiority).
Economically more and more dependent on supplies of its competitors. USA's economists cannot explain why China's BNP is growing at ten times the rate of the States.
Politically violent, arrogant, brutal, egoistic, inlove with itself, incapable to understand the limitations carried by the ignorance of the world arround.
So the unavoidable collapse is getting closer. Eroded by the huge internal forces of what Ike called the militar complex, that demands and imposes the cultural, moral, political and economical bankruptcy that is coming next.
Time to "the end" is now measurable in decades; and not in centuries. However, the crash will be recorded, documented and remembered as Rome's: per secula seculorum. Amen!
July 7, 2007 5:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction? The answer comes to us in all the writings of the necons and in the "lock-box" Bush was put into instead of our social security taxes by Cheney, Rumsfeld, the oil barons, the Zionists and the Saudis-- making it a "perfect storm."
July 7, 2007 4:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction? The answer comes to us in all the writings of the necons and in the "lock-box" Bush was put into instead of our social security taxes by Cheney, Rumsfeld, the oil barons, the Zionists and the Saudis-- making it a "perfect storm."
July 7, 2007 4:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction? The answer comes to us in all the writing of the necons and in the "lock-box" Bush was put into instead of our social security taxes by Cheney, Rumsfeld, the oil barons, the Zionists and the Saudis-- making it a "perfect storm."
July 7, 2007 4:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC. As Fukuyama so well argued: how is it that we spend so much meddling in Mideast affairs rather than spending fully on research to free us from our oil addiction?
July 7, 2007 4:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesars and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and the retirees living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoples of Europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its lobby AIPAC.
July 7, 2007 4:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, you might say that Bush is as weird as a lot of Cesears and as dumb and immature as others. But we are not Rome. We are simply a nation of investment bankers and retiries living off the profits. We do not have the vitality of the Romans that enabled them to attract allies. We are alone and despised more than by those closest to us. As the NY Time's Lewis said in an op-ed, he found himself rooting for the North Vietnamese because he considered America's position so immoral. Alas, today, more people are rooting when a bomb goes off killing us than when one of our rockets kills "terrorists," even among the peoeples of europe victimized by terror. The reason is that alQaeda lives up to their dire expectations but we Americans are a disappointment to the point of rage. No one on earth accepts we enjoying the status of "unipolar power" with the mediocre likes of Bush, Cheney and Rove in command. Instead of copying us, the world wishes we would be taught a lesson that cuts us down to size. Most of all, that is so, because e as a people so abrogate our responsibility for what our government does and we seem to care so little about our sons and daughters dying needlessly in Iraq.
But the biggest distinction is that Palestine was a totally subdued colony of Rome and Wash DC has been totally subdued by the New Palestine-- Israel-- through its loby AIPAC.
July 7, 2007 4:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
One observation would be to give the populace "Bread and Circuses" Our 24/7 hum on the thousands of channels, paris hiltons, more stadiums, more distractions for the eyes of the untrained thinkers, some of who even graduate from our public schools. Rome would be proud.
July 7, 2007 4:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reuters today notes that a
Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken last July shows that fully 1/3 of Americans think "US officials" were responsible for 9/11 or knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
If things haven't changed, (and who thinks people trust their government more today?)...the opposite is true....then that's a very, very frightening poll.
July 7, 2007 3:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reuters today notes that a
Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken last July shows that fully 1/3 of Americans think "US officials" were responsible for 9/11 or knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
If things haven't changed, and who thinks people trust their government more today...the opposite is true....then that's a very, very frightening poll.
July 7, 2007 3:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reuters today notes that a
Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken last July shows that fully 1/3 of Americans think "US officials" were responsible for 9/11 or knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
If things haven't changed, and who thinks people trust their government more today...the opposite is ture....then that's a very, very frightening poll.
Particularly for a democracy.
July 7, 2007 3:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
There can be no empire when other countries have nuclear weapons. And that is a good thing, in my view.
July 7, 2007 3:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
There are many parallels between Rome and the US apart from both being empires. For those who snivel at the term empire when applied to the US, please refer to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc..oh, and Guantanamo. Most probably Texas as well. And the Black Hills, no doubt.
Not to mention the rest of the place.
'Where are the Legions? [SPQR]
Global Deployments of US Forces
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/global-deployments.htm
The forces of the United States military are located in nearly 130 countries around the world performing a variety of duties from combat operations, to peacekeeping, to training with foreign militaries. [...]
If one were to include these [standing overseas] forces the number of deployed troops worldwide would be around 350,000.'
July 7, 2007 3:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Robert Los Angeles, 1:36 July 6th.
IS it disputable that those who wanted Iraq attacked, who currently push for bombing Iran are Olmert, Lieberman, Livi, etc.,
...that the war to take down iraq, Iran and Syria was written by Wolfowitz and Perle, and Libby and, etc.,?
They are, what, Irishmen? Italians? Arabs?
Do you think history will notice?
July 7, 2007 3:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Robert Los Angeles, 1:36 July 6th.
IS it disputable that those who wanted Iraq attacked, who currently push for bombing Iran are Olmert, Lieberman, Livi, etc.,
...that the war to take down iraq, Iran and Syria was written by Wolfowitz and Perle, and Libby and, etc.,?
They are, what, Irishmen? Italians? Arabs?
Do you think history will notice?
July 7, 2007 3:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Robert Los Angeles, 1:36 July 6th.
IS it disputable that those who wanted Iraq attacked, who currently push for bombing Iran are Olmert, Lieberman, Livi, etc.,
...that the war to take down iraq, Iran and Syria was written by Wolfowitz and Perle, and Libby and, etc.,?
They are, what, Irishmen? Italians? Arabs?
Do you think history will notice?
July 7, 2007 3:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
America must continue to kill the poorest people in the world to remain the richest country in the world. America has jumped the shark because the world understands the true nature of America.
July 7, 2007 3:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Is America Rome?
A fascinating question. I will try to answer it by taking a different tack from many other excellent answers to this question. I propose to answer it by comparing America to Rome, India and China.
Roughly speaking we can say the Roman, Indian and Chinese worlds were/are worlds which for most of their existence depended on not technology/science for social order but rather strove for social order in the absence of a conception of science/technology. Rome of course had a powerful military and lawgiving society. India had a powerful caste system. And China was perhaps the most sophisticated in that instead of a move from a religious conception of the world toward one of natural science as in the West China moved from religious conceptions to increasingly sophisticated man-made conceptions of the social order. In other words China is perhaps the epitome of pure conceptions on social problems in the absence of any scientific/technological conception of the world. Of course China invented the compass, gunpowder, etc.--did have a sophisticated scientific/technological component--but the emphasis was on a continuing meditation on social problems, and religion was overcome through a meditation on social problems rather than through natural science as in the West.
Now take America. America is heir to the Western approach to the world. Furthermore America is heir to the scientific/technological advancement in the Western world. My belief is that America is way too overbalanced in the direction of using science/technology to solve social problems and this sharply distinguishes it from Rome, India and especially the Chinese heritage.
Of course it can be argued that it is better to be overbalanced in this direction because we can hardly want to approach the world (and social problems) like Rome, India and China did, but the big question is whether we can solve social problems better than previous civilizations with our scientific/technological advancement. I would say America is in serious trouble because although having moved out of religious views of the world in the natural science department, these religious views still have a firm hold in the social department. In fact the U.S. is locked into a firm Constitution undergirded by religion and when society is conceived in a secular fashion (as it is with left wing trends) it is very unsatisfactory. All across the board our social conception lags behind science/technology and we even assume whether left or right wing that it is some sort of good thing to have science/technology spread around the world as if apply the both and all nations will rise up to democracy or something.
I seriously question the Western emphasis on science/technology in general. Scientists often boast that Western society is best because it gave birth to science, but the continued course of science is dependent on the continuation of society, civilization,--the thrust of meditating on and conceiving solutions to social problems. China or Rome might not have had the sophisticated science we have but they demonstrated (and China still does) continuing survival. Science/technology should increase our survival chances, not make up for an inability to solve social problems--and fail to make up for this inability.
I would say that America will indeed come to resemble Rome if science/technology fails to overcome social problems and we cannot solve social problems in a manner superior to Rome (and without science/technology). Furthermore with every failure to correctly understand the role of science/technology and to improve on our social conceptions China will by default move into the preeminant position.
I flat out dislike trying to keep America socially tethered to religion, the U.S. Constitution or left wing views of the world. What society is and how it can by improved should always be an open question. By tethering society to divine conceptions of how it should be run or natural law (which too often means divine conceptions in a slightly more secular guise--like the difference between Creationism and intelligent design plaguing scientific circles these days) we stifle the development of society and make it dependent on other factors the more our social conceptions fail. We are doing this now in fact with our dependence on science, technology, crass consumerism, etc. We are failing to constantly meditate on the social problem, to constantly reinvent society out of our own minds.
I hope I have satisfactorily answered the question. I have nothing more to say on the matter. I hope America does not have to become Rome.
July 7, 2007 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I remember when the airplane hit the pentagon from my attic room in a row house on 14th and Buchanan listening to commentaries on the radio when most Americans for the first time started to actually pose the question why others might hate them. This potentially fruitful dialogue lasted less than 24 hours when suddenly no one was reflecting on the why but all of a sudden discussing alternative forms of retaliation.
I think that it was in that 24-hour window that the chance to elongate US hegemony was discursively lost forever, contrary to what "Voice from Europe" believes.
I am saddened that it has taken us so many Fourth of July's to reach this point of open reflection (again), because I am afraid that it is far too late.
-- Now at refuge in Ecuador
July 7, 2007 2:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Surely there are many parallels between the decline of Rome and our own. Both Rome and the British Empire came to grief in Mesopotamia. We are told we have the greatest Army in the world since Rome. Actually, what we have is a clumsy, overweaponed force that is entirely mismatched to the mission in Iraq. It is overstretched and exhausted and cracking, confounded by small bunches of insurgents and criminals with light weapons and some explosives and a burning hatred so fierce that no atrocity is beyond them. Our military is led by careerist generals who spin the disaster shamelessly and whose allegiance seems mostly to their own advancement, not to the troops and not to the Constitution and not to good military sense. This Army can't even protect its own ranks and outposts, let alone establish order and security for the populace, who mostly just hate us, naturally, as their alien occupiers. The more Iraqi civilians killed and maimed by this largely Christian army we've stranded in a hostile Muslim land, the more hate we accrue, and the more danger of terrorist blowback we incur. Our own generals tell Bush there is no military solution. Now, 80 percent of Iraqis want us gone, and 50 percent want us dead, polling tell us. Our flak-jacketed diplomats scarcely dare venture out of their mess halls and apartments in the Green Zone let alone into Baghdad's streets. Our monstrous new embassy is a ghastly monument to ruinous fiscal and strategic folly. We've been in Iraq four years and things get worse and worse day by bloody day. What are we getting for our $9 billion a month? Death and horror and more danger to the national interest? How many more lives will we flush down the rat hole of neocon delusions and media servility and the jingoism of the Loyal Bushies? IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST LEST HE BOMB IRAN AND MAKE THINGS EVEN WORSE.
July 7, 2007 2:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I wonder if the authors are confusing the arrogance of a particular Presidential administration with a global arrogance on the part of the United States' citizenry. It is a fact of history that the change from one administration to another can often thoroughly alter the stance of the US toward the world. In five years, for example, it is entirely possible that we will be criticized for being too passive and restrained while some civil war or genocide rages. There is a lot of disagreement among the US populace with the stance taken by the current administration toward the world, and it's extremely easy for citizens of smaller or weaker countries to throw around the word "arrogance" when they don't like a US policy. But give us time-- eventually we will swing back around to a position you can agree with. And then we won't be arrogant anymore-- we'll be a responsible world power.
July 7, 2007 2:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The US position in the world is not so much a parallel to Rome, but more of a continuation of the same forces. In other words, Rome didn't fall as much as it moved, expanded, mutated.
July 7, 2007 2:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The US position in the world is not so much a parallel to Rome, but more of a continuation of the same forces. In other words, Rome didn't fall as much as it moved, expanded, mutated.
July 7, 2007 2:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I am sorry but I have to disagree with almost all of you in your assumption that the dynamics of nations today have a close comparison with past history.
It's all about corporations not countries. Big money and Corporations put people into office and when they don't have their cronies in office, they lobby and lobby.
The distinction is blurred in some countries where the collusion between big corporations and government is so great, that the government is an extension of the business.
America was a great nation. We have lost our way and perhaps a few years from now, we can begin to find ourselves again.
July 7, 2007 2:12 PM |