Readers’ Responses to Our Question (60)

To "B"

The attacks against India are the most amazing thing I ve seen on this sight. Nothing else has surprised me.

BobL-VA

I sincerely apologize for dwelling on this India issue so much. I got carried away.

Regards

MikeB and "B"Boston,

First, a country whose very roots will be forever tied with the systematic destruction of the indigenous population (American Indians) has a basic problem running around the world preaching moral superiority.

Second, a country who is willing at the drop of a hat engage foreign nations in combat under false pretenses doesn't have the right to run around the world and spread their version of the truth.

Third, a country that has a long history of suppoting dictators when it is in their best interests at the moment shouldn't be preaching democracy to anyone.

Fourth, without a doubt we are the world's largest economic force. That's basically about it. Being the economic force we are doesn't give us the right to tell the world how to live when anyone with a smidgen of history knows how hypocritical this is.

Outsourcing is not an Indian problem, it is a US problem. We can stop it anytime we want. Obviously, we'd rather have the profits. Not that I agree with this policy, but it certainly is happening.
Ragging on India will do absolutely nothing to solve what is an obvious problem for working men and women in this country. Also, I can point to an endless stream of American's killing each other on a daily basis (both individually and government sponsored). If we really want to preach a moral superiority to the Indians or anyone else we have some serious house cleaning to do in our own country.

Tom,

I agree about the ideals about why the US decision to support for Pinochet. However, Kissinger decided to make friends with Communist China so the policies are not all consistent. And, Nixon and Kissinger are not so innocent. In 1971, when the then West-Pakistan literally wreaked havoc on the now Bangladeshi people, as a result of which 1-3 million people were tortured and killed - many of them Hindus (because of religion), they asked a Communist China(!!??) to attack India and prevent India from attacking Pakistan. India attacked Pakistan anyhow and then left, and in the process created Bangladesh and today Bangaldesh is doing quite well. My point is US and Indian relations are doing quite well these days, and the Bangladesh episode is seen as a Nixon/Kissinger episode, because the US senate at that time were quite outraged at Nixon's policy.

Most of my 'attacks' are not towards you or others here. As much as I am intrigued by the India-hating by a few people, I can tell you that generally Indians do not wish any harm done to the US. So I find it quite interesting to see the vitriol towards Indians and how far it goes.

Religious conflicts and ancient civilization problems are too vast to go into here. In the middle east, Jews, Christains and Muslims have been fighting so it is not a specific problem of India.

To B:

"...It was India (NHRC) itself that recognized the crime. Pray tell me, were you able to stop Kissinger and Nixon from supporting genocide-committing Pinochet?..."

The US did support Pinochet. Consider the time period. The Cuban missle crisis nearly resulted in a nuclear war with the USSR in 1962 when Russia wanted to plant nuclear warheads on the island.

As you would probably agree, the spread of communism was, arguably, the single biggest failure of the twentieth century which resulted in the deaths of millions and millions of people (Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il-sung, etc.). None of this justifies supporting Penochet who had his opposition killed (estimated 2000 killed, 1000 missing), but considering the failures of communism, both economically and politically, the trade off could have been much worse for the people of Chile.

The US became involved in Chilean politics in 1962 under Kennedy, and as you mentioned continued into the 70's under Nixon.

I suggest that you turn your tone to honesty...

as right now you look more primitive than those you attempt to stain with your bile...

at least I shoot at ugliness, you're like a cholera infected child.

What kept me worried this week has been the way the Indian legal system revealed its weaknesses and elitist bias, through a series of judicial orders that went against the oppressed classes in Indian society like the dalits and the tribal population. The court says that the creamay layer, those who have a decent income, in these sections shall be denied access to the government postings through the system of reservation. but the fact is, in educational institutions and governemtn posts, there are often less number of qualified people from these sections to fill the vacancies that belong to them. now when those who may stand a chance to enter these offices are kept out because they are economically well off, it would mean the Indian administrative system will be filled by the upper caste sections.

surely a recipe for disaster because already the backward classes are on the brink of revolt. they have taken up arms in many areas.

np chekkutty

read what you are posting:

"India's National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), an official body, found evidence in the killings of premeditation by members of Hindu
extremist groups; complicity by Gujarat state government officials; and police inaction in the midst of attacks on Muslims."

India an anathema? India is a gift to humanity that you will only learn to appreciate one day. But anyway,

It was India (NHRC) itself that recognized the crime. Pray tell me, were you able to stop Kissinger and Nixon from supporting genocide-committing Pinochet? The US was indirectly complicit in many genocides worldwide. Wouldn't that mean that the US is the worst anathema?

You cannot even handle a few million Indians broadly brushing every Indian as parasite, anathema. The modern temporary period of 'enlightenment' doesn't say about 'Western' character which has been riddled with witch burnings, crusades, the most brutal torture methods in human history, Nazism, Fascism. Really the blacks and women fought for their votes, it wasn't given to them.

Again, hatred is very unbbecoming of a true Christian person. But of course you are just a closet right-wing nut.

- coalition against genocide
"At the end of February 2002, in the town of Godhra, a mob of Muslims set fire to a train resulting in the death of 58 Hindus. Within days, hundreds of Muslims were killed across Gujarat by Hindu mobs. In addition, hundreds of mosques and Muslim-owned businesses and other kinds of infrastructure were looted or destroyed. More than 100,000 fled their homes and, in the end, as many as 2,000 were killed. Many Muslims were burned to death; others were stabbed or shot. India's National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), an official body, found evidence in the killings of premeditation by members of Hindu
extremist groups; complicity by Gujarat state government officials; and police inaction in the midst of attacks on Muslims."

— human rights watch
" The riots followed weeks of attacks on Muslims in north India in the aftermath of the destruction of a sixteenth-century mosque in Ayodhya in the north Indian state of Uttar Pradesh."

— women's enews
"In the Indian state of Gujarat, where attacks on Muslims by Hindu mobs have killed at least 1,000 people in the last three months, a shattered woman named Jannat Sheikh lives in helpless agony. In one terror-filled day, this Muslim mother saw her husband tortured and burned alive, her baby niece doused in gasoline and set on fire, her mother-in-law raped and teen-age girls in the neighborhood rounded up and stripped before being sexually abused in the street."

— human rights watch
"we have no orders to save you", Indian government participated in communial violance against Muslims" , http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/india/

— amnesty int'l
"Women in India are subject to discrimination not just on the basis of gender but on the basis of numerous other factors such as caste, community, religious affiliation and class. India's caste system involves a social hierarchy and is a feature of Hinduism. People are born into a caste where they remain throughout their lives. Broad caste categories (varnas) separate caste groups according to occupation. Outside these categories are the "untouchables" or dalits whose occupations - sweepers, tanners - were viewed as "polluting" and who are subject to segregation."

— amnesty int'l
"More than 7,000 women in India will be murdered by their families and in-laws in disputes over dowries..."

— UN FPA
"All her married life, Kanaka Thilaka used to hide the bruises on her body with her sari. Early this year, her husband made sure she could not afford even a strand of camouflage. Traumatized by years of physical abuse, Thilaka confronted her husband, saying that if he didnít stop, she would commit suicide. But her husband mocked her by throwing kerosene on her [and burning her]. Today, sheís barely alive and the scars all over her body cannot be hidden ....ëMy future is gone. All that worries me now are my children,í she whispers."
(Menon, Subhadra, and Stephen David. 7 December 1995. "Brutal Retaliation." India Today.)

I could go on and on and on, but it is rather sickening. Indian culture and Indian values are an anathema to everything we stand for and live by in the West. We should be delighted to receive Indian people who wish to immigrate here, accept our cultural values, U.S. citizenship, and work to make this country great. Those, like "B", who are only interested in perpetuating the bankrupt values of that god foresaken place they came from need to go back. They do noit belong here.

Mikeb

First thanks for me showing how much hatred a 'Christian' man can have, you right-wing nut. But now, as to refuting your lies.

India 'virtually imprisoning' Muslim minority? India's President is Muslim and Prime Minister is Sikh - both minorities elected by the people? Azim Premji, is an Indian Muslim, who was for a short 2 weeks the 2nd richest man in 1998. India has the biggest Muslim population. And no time to get into the trap of arguing with a idiot.

One hope is that even the once India-bating Democrat Joe Biden has turned around. At least the politicians are not that crazy. Corrupt maybe but not crazy.

So hey, go crazy spewing nonsense propaganda, because really, no one besides this forum WILL EVER GIVE YOU 2 SECONDs OF THEIR TIME to you.

Oh another thing, go elect a black man for US President or a Jew.

And "B", disparaging a culture becasue they treat women like garbage (even murdering some over an insufficient bride price), because they are a caste system that treats the downtrodden, the poor and hungry in horrible ways. And, disparaging the fact that India has caused a lot of grief by taking virtually imprisoning their Muslim minoriy, disparaging relgious practices that call for human sacrifice, are not things banned on this nor any other American forum that I know of. But, the discussion is not about Indian culture, it is about outsourcing jobs and guest workers. India is simply the chief proponent of that (and the chief beneficiary at a great cost to my country). I feel precisely the same way about Chinese guest workers and outsourcing technology to China. And I *am* very upset that Apple has outsourced their dual core Pentium computers to China. These are the most advanced personal computers in the world today and allowing that technology to be exported to a likely future adversary is flat out criminally wrong. I would feel the same way if we were doing this with Brazil or Vietnam or even Sweden. I think my country needs to legislate rules that ban guest workers being allowed to replace American workers in *any* job and to heavily tax an compnay that outsources jobs and completely fordid the export of technologies that threaten our long term national interests. That is good old fashioned Amercian patriotism. If you don't like it, you are free to leave right now. In the very near future, however, you will be given the boot anyways. We do not need nor want foreign immigrants who do not have the best intersts and love of this country foremost in their hearts.

daniel,

None of my comments are towards you and anyone I consider 'sane' here. We can question anything. However let us not come to conclusions before there are proofs. What is being questioned here? Everything has been assumed to be true.

But more importantly, I can have my share of saying whatever I feel like can't I like the rest of you - hey, isn't that also a mode of questioning?

Honestly, I find this little interaction here a revelation of the deepest of hatred really, really iteresting. I am only learning, how much one can hate another just based on feelings.

To "B" in Boston. You might as well stop bringing up the forum rules—if they were really enforced no one would be able to say anything. While the forum rules make sense, on the other hand they make no sense at all and just stifle debate. Honestly B how is anyone to navigate a set of rules like that? Are we not to question possible differences between men and women? Are we not to question possible racial differences? National differences? Religious practices? I can tell you one thing: enforcing such rules means the end of many sciences including anthropology, sociology, comparative religion, biology,—honestly, how can anyone think with such rules in mind?

And if you think I am anti-Indian let me put your concerns to rest: All it took to seduce me to India was a meal at a restaurant when I was a kid. Maybe we should all eat each other's foods....

Hello
the mafiosob

Forum rules:

"You may not post content that degrades others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual preference, disability or other classification. Epithets and other language intended to intimidate or to incite violence will not be tolerated."

mikeB

Threats - wow!! For what? Have you read the forum rules for issuing threats? Is that what your great manners tell you? Why would I use your name if you didn't use an Indian name just for your propaganda? HUM????

Actually, you always needed us. And you always will. With people like you, America does not stand a chance.

Bush's comment to Stephanopoulos about Iraq "...we have never done stay the course..." is absolute stark-raving unashamed lying by Bush. The chutzpah is breathtaking. Shameless Bush. Well, America can boast of having been duped and continue loving it. Half of the United States have the Stockholm syndrome: rampant corruption by Republican officials (Ney, Duke, Delay), propositioning of pages by gay Foleys, Katrina, Iraq debacle, revelation of White House smirking at Evanglical nuts... all these do not matter. The Republican supporters go back for more abuse. What a mess it is the Bush has created.

I asked a friend about this and evidently it is a reference to an Hardard Lampoon parody. When Pope John-Paul was elected (or whatever it is they do), the Lampoon had an article where George-Ringo was really ticked off. So, I guess John-Paul-George-Ringo is a play on that...I think. In any event, the post has a kernel of truth to it. Evidently, the Pope John-Paul actually was concerned enough about Mr. Bush that he thought Bush possibly could be the antichrist. Now, I'm hearing the same thing being said amoungst certain Evangelical circles. What I make of it is that Bush and the Repug's are in serious trouble if the Evangelicals are turning against them and even thinking they are somehow agents of Satan. For my part, I reserve that for Indian's :) (just kidding "B")

As for centrist policies, I believe in them and truly want them. But the morons from the right and left fringes keep hijacking the debate. People like "B" with their intellectual dishonesty and inability to actually debate an issue, resort to personal attacks and childish postings under your name. Oh well, a little sanity is needed more now than ever. You don't have to be a conservative to understand that open immigration is very very bad and you don't have to be a wild eyed liberal to understand that global warming is real and we need a national health insurance program (but just a national HMO, or something similar, we don't need some egg laying dairy pig like the one proposed by Hilliary Clinton).

To MikeB from Daniel. I take it John, Paul, Ringo and George are not the Beatles. From what I recollect John, Paul, GEORGE, and Ringo are the Beatles. But maybe the guy was just making some sort of combination of Pope John Paul and George Bush and threw the Ringo in or something. I must be lost in space to be trying to figure this out...but I do agree with you that Bush is a problem.

Actually we must be the problem to have allowed such a thing as the Bush presidency to occur. And I would toss the Clinton one in as well. What the Democrats will do if they gain power is what I would like to know...

What bothers me most perhaps is when people call for a move to the center to overcome the extremes of right and left but the center seems to be merely a watering down, a flattening, which far from overcoming the extremes just makes them return all the harder.

A call for the center is an illusion unless energetically and imaginatively pursued. It means being fully immersed in the extremes and creating a new worldview out of conflicting elements.

That is extremely hard to do and although I would characterize myself as searching for the center I am more suspicious of moderates than the extremes. The extremes are what they are. The moderates are too often an illusion...Just rambling....

It isn't racism and it isn't studpid to curtail the excesses of outsourcing and the various guest worker programs. Curtailing these corporate giveaways makes sense given the number of jobs lost and the educational opportunities to this insanity. To be sure, "B" and other foreigner workers and their allies are worried about this. They see the great American gravy train coming to an end. And it should, if we want to survive as a nation and as a people. So "B" just go back to India and enjoy that 5,000 year old culture we never needed it and never wanted it in the first place. Oh, and if you ever make a post using my name again, you will find that there are a lot worse things that can happen other than a caution from the forum sponsors.

mikeb
America needs to wake up to the likes of you lazy bozos sucking up the resources.
Hmm oh yeah, ... Wishful thinking! A country that has stood for 5000 years is not going away just because you wish it so. Oh have you started using the Roman numerals yet, dumba$$?

wish away your stupid dreams.

Someday, "B' Boston, either this country will wake up and you and your fellow parasites will be shipped home to India. Either that, or you will have succedded in so fowling your nest here, that the country will simply collapse and you will move on to some other place and will suck them dry. We do need some Indian and Chinese workers, just as we need some workers from Mexico and South America, but we need them in small numbers that can be handled b our country and integrated into our society. We have no need for "guesrt workers" of any sort. We DO need a limited and manageable number of people who want to become American's.

More news that he rest of the world doesn't wish to join the U.S. headlong rush to suicide by permitting (or, in the Bush Administration's case, *encouraging*) outsourcing and unlimited immigration of guest workers, both illegal and legal:

Reid Outlines New EU Work Curbs - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6076410.stm
"The only unskilled working allowed will be in food processing and agriculture...Mr Reid said policing it would be challenging, but those caught working illegally would face on-the-spot fines, with hefty penalties for their employers"

NHS In Illegal Immigrants Mess - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5275586.stm
"The government says failed asylum seekers or others without permission to be in the UK should only get limited free care, including emergency aid."

Also, all across the EU, curbs are going up protecting naive jobs against incursions by foreign workers. Indian software workers, for example, cannot take jobs from native English engineers (nor German nor Swedish nor Danish nor Freench nor anywhere else). Foreign, "highly skilled" workers can only take jobs for which no qualified native is available. That's the way things ought to be here.

Oh, hello, nothing's new. I see again some disgruntled lazy jobless bozos uselessly daydreaming of bashing India again. Hmm wonder why is everything about India these days?

hmm, carry on, nazi wannabes.

hoofed one, but obviously, his intellect isn't exactly high enough for the prince of cunning.

maybe the prince of faunt le roi', the silver spooned, addle pated, never had to work for nothing in his life spoiled brat of selfishness.

wonder why none of the worlds leaders want to listen to this walking advertisement for birth control?

.

by the FBI.

Hastert and Pelosi? Do you think those two could be crooked?

Is there any other reason for them to be complaining about the FBI busting a black guy from Louisiana, taking bribes from an FBI sting operation?

And why did George W. Bush make it _his_ personal responsibility to intercede with the FBI? Because _he_ wants the same treatment when it's his turn.............rob and steal all you want to on Georges' watch

he's got your back, iffin you're rich.

doesn't take a deep intellect to see what these boyz are made of.

In the real world Hastert and his staff would be fired along with Foley. No excuses, and none offered.

Mr. Sebastian Sosman in his most recent article "Iraqi Kurdistan: US Government Sends Mixed Signals on Partitioning" published in Harper's Magazine join many other voices that expressed concern over the possible shift in Bush Administration's stance towards Iraq unity.Unlike others, the signs he sees are mostly focues on Iraqi Kurdistan.Rice's visit to Kurdistan, Kirkuk issue, the flag issue ect..Of course he predicts that if such a shift is to become true the whole hell will break out in Iraq, as if what is happening already is a pic nic.

While Kurdistan Regional Government has not asked for independence, and it stands clear on the federal solution, it amazes me how some are trying repeatedly to stick the charge of separation on Kurds in their attempt to put them unjustly in a defensive position visa vis this charge that is in reality the dream of every Kurd to have some day like any other nation a homeland.

True,given the freedom, free choice and international guarantees and protection over 90% of Kurds will vote for independenc.But who cares about freedom, democracy free will nowadays, especially when it comes to helpless Kurds?A country like Turkey is trying to convince the world it worried about the fate of Turkmans in Kirkuk.Nobody is asking where was Turkey all the years when Saddam's regima was massacring Kurds, Turkmans, and others, evicting them from Kirkuk and replacing them with Arab settlers brought from Southern Iraq.Turkmans for the first time since the inception of Iraq and since 1992 are enjoying their rights in Kurdistan while more than twenty million Kurds are denied their in Turkey.Kurds in Turkey will be happy if Turkey treat them the same way and grant them the same rights Turkmans are enjoying in Iraqi Kurdistan.The problem with Turkey when it comes to Kurds is not only denying Kurds their rights within its current borders,however, it goes beyond than inside Iraq and elsewhere to block any attempt by Kurds to secure their legitimate rights. Now, Turkey explicitly is expressing her wish to block the implementation of Iraqi constitution regarding Kirkuk.

Though Kurds are not seeking an independent state which is within their legitimate rights, I don't share Mr. Sosman's panicy view that hell will break out if Iraq could not survive as a unitary state.Under such circumstances and when the cycle of violence mounts and continue other will eventually have to seek other alternatives and the world might not have any choice but to accept it.This is a more likely scenario especially among other things, if those alternatives will contribute to bring an end to the civil strife in Iraq and the region, consolidate security and stability of the region, contribute to the fighting against terrorirsm and fundamentalism, and help to create trade partnership among regional players without exception by bringing all together paving the way for the integration of all into an economic regional axis.

there are plenty of people that can put out the fire of overweaning "look at me," from NK.

no big deal.

If you want to put out the fire in Iran, be a country worth emulating.

take care of your citizens ship first... overextension is what defeated the Soviet Union, which seems to be making a strong comeback with the United States no longer being the beacon of light that it used to be.......

without a good contrast, crooks look like, business as usual.

when the United States feeds at the trough with pigs, the world slides backwards........

the current corrupt Executive Branch and Complicit Congress make the Fox and the Cat in Pinnochio look like Jesus.

.

PostGlobal

An interesting story was reported this morning in the Washington Times:

"...Two Republican senators, including the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, yesterday called for direct U.S.-North Korea talks over Pyongyang's nuclear program..."

This follows recents calls for bilateral negotiations by Democrats who would negotiate Alaska back to the Soviets if they threatened another arms race.

The Agreed Framework Agreement was signed into law in 1994. The agreement provided two light water nuclear reactors, and other economic incentives in addition to moving toward normalizing of political and economic relations with the US.

The Bush administration discovered (2002) that the North Koreans had broken the treaty. From 2003 to 2005, the US and their four negotiating partners (which included China) met five times with the North Koreans with little success. Now, the North Koreans are demanding bilateral negotiations with the US, which has, rightly, refused. China is the key to solving the problem. Sanctions have been put in place by the UN. China does not want an arms race on the peninsula.

Negotiations don't always lead to the right result. Negotiations failed with NK, and are failing with Iran. Republicans urged Clinton to refrain from negotiating with NK before the treaty was signed.

The problem is with Republicans now grandstanding for the coming election while undermining the President's policy. Two weeks before the election, they suddenly change their mind? North Korea is, clearly, blackmailing the US to prop up this brutal regime,and it will happen again, and again... What next? Cut and run? I say, vote them out!

any Chelsea resident can tell you that.

Seems like those poor white people like to talk trash about muslim brothers?

what's that about, shortness in private places? apparently...most Boston white boys are known to be woefully inadequate in many ways...probably rascist upbringing.

IQ is also quite low from the level of verbage, must be related to some non bonobo chimps....

perhaps itis the water? ideas, should we ask for a grant to improve the water in Boston? perhaps it will help them to regain self esteem.

. let me know.
.

There are two things that linger, for me:

1. Orhan Pamluk, recent recipient of the Nobel Prize, suggesting that we might be seeing the beginning of the dreaded 'Clash of Civilizations'. I thought it overstatment, until I viewed a website that carried all kinds of overtly negative sentiments about "Islam".

The "War on Terror" - a hapless and dangerous phrase - is ours to lose, not theirs to win. Once 'moderates' are driven apart, by their insecurities or anger over a "non-win" in Iraq, the cycle of violence can begin.

Once a cycle starts, it has momentum. No one remembers how or why it got started.

If you believe that, then we are in a race to stop it, now, before it starts, and we are doing so with an Administration that is arguably part of the problem, that still lacks an integrated and sustainable strategy to confront religious extremism in the Muslim world"

2. John Yoo, former lawyer for the Bush Administration, with a chilling attack on the Courts during wartime, in an op-ed page, doing a victory lap, as it were, on legislation that was rammed through Congress with a mere 5 hours of debate and no pre-consultation with the minority party.

The effort of the Bush Administration juggernaut to insinuate their impoverished vision of counterterrorism into the law and the long-term implications of that have yet to reverberate as far and wide as they might.

This goes beyond torture and is most likely related to their fundamental misunderstanding of what smart counterterrorism looks like. The fact that we have mobilized the Army for Afghanistan doesn't change the basic principles at play, although some want to put everything on 'war' footing and so much in the hands of the military and the Executive.

It's probably related to what may have been a Rumsfeldian misconception that 'capture and kill' was more than just part of a much, much broader required approach. They thought they were going to "End Evil" (title of Richard Perle's book). As military Historian Sir Michael Howard has put it in October 200-1-(paraphrase), 'I can think of no better way to ensure that it is prolongued ..'

MikeB,

I wish I had more time, but alas I've got to out.

Proof positive Bush is not the devil or the antichrist.

He's too dumb.

daniel - 'Where does one go when the whole world is a madhouse? Really only to oneself...as the savior and hope in the world.' Some of us seek a higher power for that succor. This is a topic I wish this board would consider, too: then place of religion and faith in politics and world affairs. One thing intersting about the humorous (?) post by John-Paul-Ringo-George (above), however, is that it is based on fact. Just now, former associates of the late Pope are discussing that John-Paul genuinely considered that George Bush might be the real anti-Christ. At least the subject is being broached in Europe. Many people think Bush fits the bill. He's evil, he's self centered, and he obviously has no qualms about sacrificing anyone and anything in his grasp for power. He has surrounded himself with some of the most loathsome and odeous people in all history, people so taekn with Mr. Bush's mad vision they surrendered their very souls. So, he is either what the Pope believed or he's clinically insane. Neither gives me much hope for the world or for the future. It's certainly something to think about and discuss here.

To: John, Paul, Ringo and George

DID ONE OR ALL OF YOU FORGET TO TAKE OUR MEDICATION THIS WEEK?

The big event of the week should perhaps be declared the definitive crisis in the field of psychology and psychiatry. So far as I can tell there is no longer any reality which can be reliably posited as an anchoring point to determine the psychologically disturbed amongst us.

It used to be that psychology and psychiatry oscillated between medicating patients and returning them to "society", which is to say returning them to a largely agreed upon conception of reality. Well it seems more and more every day there is no agreed upon reality.

Therefore we can expect psychiatry and psychology to more and more medicate patients until the field is definitively integrated with forces which have as their project "reality creation".—An integration with philosophy, history, politics, etc. etc.?

But this is what is to be expected the more the sick in the field of psychiatry and psychology becomes all of us and not just the obviously disturbed among us. We all are becoming sick because of the loss of an anchoring point and therefore we all must begin stunning ourselves with drugs or devising methods to create a coherant reality we all can more or less live in.

Perhaps we can say that we have never really created culture before, civilization, etc. etc. and that only now are we beginning to understand that we must do so.

What is an agreed upon reality which has simply been given to us as was the case so often in the past other than merely the given?

Now the given is lost, and hopefully only being superceded. We all now are given the task of creating reality for ourselves, and either we somehow work together and create some sort of synthesis at least, or...we can expect all politics, history, economics, to become collapsed into mere psychiatry and psychology—the madhouse and all of us definitively housed within it.

Where does one go when the whole world is a madhouse? Really only to oneself...as the savior and hope in the world. Where would you expect anyone to go? To society? Please...I stay with myself and rely upon only my courage and insight in the world.

ìThen I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. ìThis calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is manís number. His number is 666.î — Revelation 13: 11-18

For students of numerology who can read Hebrew, the value of the letters in the name ìGeorge Bushî add up to 666.

Sources close to the late Pope John Paul said the Pope was very concerned that George H. Bush could be the Antichrist. He lobbied the leaders of many Latin American countries to oppose Bushís war resolution on Iraq. Just as Hitler used the Reichstag Fire to assume total control of Germany, Wayne Madsen wrote in Counterpunch, ìThere is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup díetat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda.î There was also the concern that the blood lust evident in Bush as a governor of Texas who executed more criminals than any governor in history would produce a slaughter of innocents. To commit such slaughter in the name of Christ would be an unparallelled blasphemy and proof that Bush was the Antichrist.

Atheist, Boston, USA: India is not a democracy in the Western sense, either. It is only "democratic" if you are from a higher caste. If you are an untouchable or a Muslim minority, better to just forget it because your vote doesn't count, YOU don't count.

China was supplanted the U.S. as the leading supplier of arms to dictitorial governments around the world. China is the leading supplier to arms to Sudan. The U.S. is the second largest seller of arms world wide, but only the fifth largest to the Sudanese. Second place for arms supplier to the Sudan is...tah, da...France. The are followed by the Russian, and India. On the internation schene, India has gone from a net arms importer in 2000, to a net arms exporter today. Corporations in all of these countries (except in the case of China, where the government *is* the corporation) are respobsible for most of the world wide heartache and violence. Eliminate arms sales by China, the U.S. Russia, France, India, Great Britain, Germany (in order the chief agents of this cancer on the world) and you would eliminate 95% of the deaths, starvation, wrecked lives, and human suffering.

Various Indian supremacists, in this forum, have rapidly claimed that Indian values are just as "good" as Western values.

Yet, where, the hell, are the Indian troops destined for Darfur?

The massacre in Darfur is a tragedy.

Unfortunately, there is an insufficient number of Western troops to handle all the crises: Iraq, Afghanistan, Balkans, etc.

Why is there an insufficient number of Western troops? The answer is that there is an insufficient number of Western nations.

We have an insufficient number of Western nations because Washington spent the entire Cold War in playing power games with Moscow. If we had focused on Westernizing numerous countries (e.g., Thailand, Iran, and others), we might not be in our current predicament. There is a fundamental difference between Western values and non-Western values.

Both India and China have plenty of troops. However, as others have noted, neither the Indians nor the Chinese are Westerners. The Indians, in particular, could not care less when an Islamic thug rapes and kills a 10-year-old girl in Darfur. In the eyes of the Indian, she is considered beneath the lowest sub-human animal on the caste system since she does not have Indian blood.

India is a democracy, but it is not a Western nation.

SO...again this week the return of the Israeli PR...they were quiet after the horrendous Lebananon rampage which so digusted the whole world ...but now return like sneaks to the front pages of the Times. This story, that story.And chat rooms...on and on.
Israel, that constant leach on the United States of America. Our great good friend, even as America staggers in world
disgrace and burgeoning war debts...doesn't for one moment give up it
it's aggression, settlemen t building, ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, it's clear intent to "greater Israel". Control of oil by whatever means. Drags us down and makes us hated and reviled and in mortal danager. Go back to l948, study history without savage aggressive Israel..and see where we'd be.

that Americans are being cheated, sold out by their ?elected? officials. Who are using their office, en masse, as a platform for self enrichment.

Propaganda is the governing tool of choice, rather than effective action. Apparently, this message is reaching the electorate.

For me it was the 60 Minutes story last night on Darfur, Sudan. I had no idea that the government was Arabic and Sunni and was trying to exterminate all blacks. Now, these are mostly Christian and animists, but many are also Muslim. Beyond this, I cannot believe that MY government is having dealing with this government because of intelligence information with regards to "Al Qaida" and their hoaky ware on terrorism. I mean, the Arab government of the Sudan has killed 400,000 people! That's 400,000 human beings. This is A LOT more people killed than Al Qiada or even Pol Pot. Now, the Bush Whitehouse is also doing business with, even trading with, the government of Burma, whch is almost as murderous as the government of the Sudan. I am simply amazed that people can look at this Administration and think of them and their friends as anything other than a collection of some f them most ruthless and barbaric murders in modern history. They are truly international criminals.

With all of this, I wonder where the E.U. is. I mean, they can try in abstenia a few CIA employees for running European prisons. SO, these guys buy insurance and whine about not being able to vacation in Europe. Where are the U.S. leaders being banned from travel? The very leaders who issued orders for these CIA employees. Based on all of this, international arrest warrants ought to be issued for Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rove, the head of the CIA, and every other member of this administration. Forbid them from travelling to Europe and arrest them if they dare. These are monsters.

US free speech row grows as author says Jewish complaints stopped launch party

∑ Row over postscript on Palestinians' plight
∑ British-born academic claims lectures cancelled
Ed Pilkington in New York
Wednesday October 11, 2006

Guardian http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1892433,00.html
The British-based author and former publisher Carmen Callil has become embroiled in a growing dispute over the limits of freedom of speech in America after a party celebrating her new book on Vichy France was cancelled because of the opinion she expresses about the modern state of Israel.
A party in honour of Bad Faith, Callil's account of Louis Darquier, the Vichy official who arranged the deportation of thousands of Jews, was to have taken place at the French embassy in New York last night but was cancelled after the embassy became aware of a paragraph in the postscript of the book. In the postscript Callil says she grew anxious while researching the "helpless terror of the Jews of France" to see "what the Jews of Israel were passing on to the Palestinian people. Like the rest of humanity, the Jews of Israel 'forget' the Palestinians. Everyone forgets."
The embassy said the passage had been brought to its attention after a guest declined the invitation because of it. A spokesman denied allegations from Callil, reported by Reuters, that "fundamentalist Jews" had complained and had the party shut down.
The row over Callil's book is the latest element in a dispute about restrictions on freedom of speech in the US in relation to comments on Israel.
A British-born academic based at New York University has had two speaking engagements called off after criticism of his views. Tony Judt, an American Jew who was brought up in Britain, was due to speak on the subject of the influence of the pro-Israeli lobby on US foreign policy and at a separate location under the title War and Genocide in European Memory Today. The first lecture was cancelled by the Polish consulate in New York, which owned the venue, while Mr Judt pulled out of the second after he was asked by the organisers to refrain from direct references to Israel. In both cases pro-Israeli organisations and individuals had raised objections to Mr Judt's views on Israel.
Mr Judt was one of six people who took part in a debate in New York last month organised by the London Review of Books on the controversy sparked by its article on The Israel Lobby. During that debate Mr Judt argued that pro-Israeli groups acted "to silence debate on the subject", adding that criticism of Israel had come to be thought of as un-American.
His talk last week on a similar theme at a venue owned by the Polish consulate was cancelled by the consul, Krzysztof Kasprzyk, after inquiries from two Jewish organisations. Mr Kasprzyk told the Washington Post that he had been subjected to "delicate pressure".
Abraham Foxman, director of one of the groups, the Anti-Defamation League, denied any pressurising. "All we did was to ask the consulate whether Tony Judt was speaking on its property. The decision to cancel was the Polish consulate's alone." Mr Judt riposted: "If all Mr Foxman was doing was making an inquiry, then he does an awful lot of inquiring. People are frequently being scared off."
Mr Judt said his views had been misrepresented. "The only thing I have ever said is that Israel as it is currently constituted, as a Jewish state with different rights for different groups, is an anachronism in the modern age of democracies."
In the second incident Mr Judt pulled out from a talk on the Holocaust at Manhattan College after a Jewish leader, Rabbi Avi Weiss, warned he would hold a protest of Holocaust survivors outside the event. "This speech would have been a desecration," Rabbi Weiss told the Guardian.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006

The fact that a leading US General in Iraq stated that the Baghdad strategy had failed. Nothing unsrcipted comes out of this admistration. It is a precuser to James Baker becoming the de facto President and Secretary of State for the next two years. They know they are going to lose the House and maybe the Senate. It is the only way to get anyting done and Poppie Bush has saved George's rear one more time. James Baker, the Fixer in Chief, is back in town and none too soon.

The American president has become detached from reality. It seems that is of great consequence to the rest of the world.

The beginning of a shift toward energy company recognition of global warming and its consequences is a promising trend

Replacing carbon fuels with nuclear, hydrogen, solar, water, wind and other less polluting resources may usher in a new era of corporate and governmental responsibility for a sustainable planet and economic growth through expansion of clean energy industries.

talk of a policy whift should be expected, and should increase by election day, so i will say the president's new power to claim anyone as an enemy combatant and strip them of habeas corpus.

Finally, there is good news related to Iraq.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/23/america/NA_GEN_US_Iraq.php

A consensus is emerging. That consensus is transferring the total responsiblity for running Iraq to the Iraqi government. The American military will step out of the picture as quickly as possible.

I see a significant withdrawal of American troops by the end of 2007.

What does this transfer of responsibility mean in real terms?

1. The Americans will not be blamed for partitioning Iraqi. The numerous Indians and other rabid 3rd worlders in this forum have vehemently accused us Americans of trying to partition Iraq. The rabid 3rd worlders then claim that the Americans are trying to cause more bloodshed. By transferring responsiblity for the state of Iraq to the Iraqis, we easily absolve ourselves of any responsbility for this partitioning.

What will happen is that the Iraqis will kill each other. Once the Americans step out of the picture, the Iraqi government will collapse. The Shiite majority will then set up a military or authoritarian government. An army of Shiites will arise and bring order into the chaos. Here, "order" means killing off most of the Sunni Arabs.

Iraq will then have exactly 2 states: Kurdistan in the north and Shiite-town in the rest of Iraq. The Sunnis will be extinct.

Presto! We have a partitioned solution for Iraq without any American intervention. Better yet, the Arab population has been reduced by 20% — again, without any American intervention.

2. Peace will be achieved in Iraq by the end of 2008. The main reason for this state of affairs is the extinction of the Sunni population. Again, the American troops did not commit any violation of human rights. They were not even in Iraq when the extermination occurred. The Muslims did all — 100% — of the killing.

3. We have a stable democracy in northern Iraq. That democracy is called Kurdistan.

4. The rest of Iraq will be a barbaric theocracy like Iran.

Last weeks news events. Let's see.......

Another Congressman resigns in disgrace and is trying to ward off prosecution. Hmmmm, nothing new about that.

Secretarian violence in Iraq is escalating and more Iraqis are dying. Hmmmm, nothing new about that.

US military forces are facing heavy resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan and dying. Hmmmm, nothing new about that

Bin Laden is still on the loose. Hmmmm, nothing new about that.

North Korea detonated a small nuclear device. Aha! Since they haven't done this before it's something new. Hmmmm, not really, becuase we all knew it was coming. "Yawn"

More generals and diplomats are questioning the wisdom of Iraq, the war on terror and Afghanistan. Hmmmm, nothing new about that.

Bush has decided after meeting with his advisors to stay the course in Iraq. I'm shocked (sarcastically), but again nothing new.

The Democrats (without a plan) look to skunk the Republicans (who have a proven bad plan) in the mid-term elections. Hmmm, nothing new about that.

Am I the only one who thinks you could change the dates on the news in the last few months and you wouldn't know the difference?

The most significant story that is playing in the western media is that
Bush is thinking about changing his policy toward Iraq. This is of course a lie. It is clearly an attempt to bluff his way past the mid-term elections, hoping that some who voted for him before will give
him one more chance. All he is really doing of course is stalling for time. He wants very much to leave the tough choices in Iraq to the next
president, so he can always say that if he only had more time it would have worked out. This is, by the way, exactly what Henry Kissinger
still says today about Vietnam.

In our part of the world (the U. S.), the major "development" has been the "Foleygate" and the ensuing ever-widening ramifications on the upcoming elections. I see a huge disconnect between the Catholic Church and reality. Many of the priests are turing into some of the worst pedophiles, because of the restrictions imposed by the Church on its "men" of cloth. There MUST be a fundamental shift in the Church's policies, very soon; otherwise, the damage will only worsen beyond imagination. The policies are so corrosive, insidious, and pernicious that it has started to affect everyone - even the politics does not seem to be immune to them. What a shame!

This week Peshawar the provincial capital of Pakistan witnessed series of bomb blast. One of them was deadly killing at least 7 peoples and having many injured.

The bombs struck when the country was having the last week of the Ramadan and preparing for eid festival.

so far no body accepted the responsibility

however since Peshawar is less than 100 km from afghan border threfore this bomb blast is very significant and can influence the political conditions in the region.

Peshawar remained the victim of bomb blasts since afghan war and when the influx of refugees were started Peshawar wss the front city to recieve that impact.

Although no immidate change in relations of two neighbours are expected however such incidence only reflect the fragile truce being observed between different factions

Access Denied, Donít try again!
Kourosh Ziabari

It was for the first time that Iranians heard the name of ìRegulation of radio and communicative provisionsî that presented itself by approving a new sanction that forbids the access to 128 Kbps internet connection for general, personal or household purposes.
By the ratification of newly accomplished law, only governmental organizations and first-degree citizens would be free to use this type of internet using various type connections such as ADSL (Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line) or satellite internet and non-governmental organizations, companies, personal or family corporations and also the newspaper offices would be restricted to use this high speed types of internet.
Officially, it is less than 2 years that this type of Internet is imported to Iran and PAPs (Private Access Providers) are to offer high speed Internets with unbelievable expenditures, cause the monthly account of ADSL connection, costs about 800 dollars for each user and this amount is truly less than monthly incoming and salary of a normal citizen.
Also the Internet Service Providers of Iran are unable to provide the users with the exact 56Kbps dial-up connections and in addition to the high users traffic of regional parts in different cities, the average speed of dial-up and telephony connection via the best types of external 56k modems is an integer between 21,600 kbps to at most 33,600 kbps.
In the other word the availability of multimedia items containing online music, films, fast data transmission or high speed downloads is impossible due to the continuous disconnects, old and worn out structure and fiber noises caused by the cupreous dual cables used in the foundation of these traditional telephone lines. So these troubles, do not allow you to experience a convenient and comfort connection so you must carry all the problems out to yourself and be deprived from the even connections being used in some neighbor countries such as Afghanistan!!
Beside all the problems, you have not to forget the distance dimensions. With regard that there are not more than one ADSL supporter in most of Iran cities and if we remember that the ADSL providers are not able to serve the users that are far from central station to more than 5 kilometers, we can get the result that the situation of high speed internet in Iran, seems to be a real disease rather than a bitter reality!
It is more than 10 years that developed countries are using ADSL and the Wireless technology is replacing very soon but in a few countries such as Iran that claims to be the polarity of technology in middle east, ADSL is like a dream for most of professional users and commercial organizations. So practically the executive process of plans such as E-government, E-Police, E-university and E-commerce is impossible in Iran.
The new registered law is also adding our pains and letís express honestly that the future of information and communication technology in Iran, is likely to be so blurred and dark than it seemsÖ

I can think of many striking things, but because the next two years are the last of the Bush presidency I want to mention how striking it is in the U.S. that perhaps the Bush presidency is the last of a truly effective propaganda campaign. I am not at all in agreement with the political correctness of the Democratic party within the U.S. but the Republican attempt to create a bubble for itself in which the nation was just supposed to be encompassed has certainly backfired.

I believe the Democrats are about to make the same mistake as they challenge the Republicans in congress and for the presidency. I think no one really in both parties truly appreciates how propaganda just does not add up anymore. Too many people now empowered by the internet and other forms of technology are just puncturing all attempts to group people according to simple ideas.

I think the biggest trend in the U.S. at the moment is that all ideas are being tested as never before. Take the rules on this postglobal blog that someone on the previous question pointed out and asked to be enforced because he objected to a previous writer's remarks. Among the rules are admonitions that we do not make racial, gender, ethnic, religious, etc. etc. remarks.—Essentially the political correctness (of really both sides of the political spectrum) that the Wash post has enforced for years.

Well now virtually anything is being questioned—and in fact always was being questioned,—we just had a horribly bland public life which made it impossible to really step forward.

All that is changing now. It will be ugly, but it will also mean the liberation of true intellects against the stultifying public life we have had to suffer for so long.

I personally welcome it. Pundits on the right and left have been so overrated. And of course newspapers themselves have really been an exercise in national cowardice. I think they themselves can give plenty of reasons for their groupthink.

The Republican party in the U.S. has been a disaster, but if you think the Democrats triumphing will be the triumph of opinion writers at the Post such as E.J. Dionne, Harold Meyerson, Eugene Robinson, etc. (liberals), think again. Both the right and left are finished.

I thank God for it. Either we have clarity, direction, courage and will for our nation or it will simply founder. I welcome the challenge. I embrace it. The creative will prosper. The uncreative will die.

Or rather I should say we will simply not tolerate mediocrity as the best of the nation when we truly have a choice of individual viewpoints.

Ironically, when the best is offered perhaps we will have a truly national life for everyone.

Certainly without the best we have at best a lie.

Pivitol Stories and Telling Tales:

A. Alberto Fernandez, Senior US State Dept Official reportedly announces that
the US has shown arrogance and stupidty in IRAQ. (Will Fernandez's lines be
sanitized, spun or quickly debunked by defensive US officials?) Key Iraq storylines
by Anthony Shadid, George Packer and newer texts Fiasco and the Looming Tower
remind the US and world audience - be it Musllin - Christian - Jew (or whatever sect)
that humans should, with exact care not imprint their own cultural template
on other societies. The Iraq debacle - loss of Iraq lives, displacement of hundreds of
thousands of Iraqis, ramping up of responsive "terror" and resulting economic/financial malaise in the Americas. America's faltering image - a most sobering sad story.

B. The dark shadow of Sudan's Darfur - genocide, starvation, displacement, human
degredation; and the US/Free world response? A grand silence or inaction by most world leaders almost always preoccupied by global dissonance seemingly everywhere but in Darfur.

Regrettably the government of San Francisco has been ineffectual in stopping the trafficking. Indeed, websites like myRedbook ( http://www.myredbook.com ) can operate in broad daylight, and the police does nothing.

San Francisco is starting to degenerate into a typical Indian community.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/07/05/MNGEV7GPK71.DTL

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india304/aronson.html

Prostitution (and subjugation of women) is rampant in Bombay (a major city in India). In 2002, 54% of the Indian prostitutes in Bombay were infected with HIV.

The "San Francisco Chronicle" recently published a shocking report about sex trafficking. San Francisco itself is a major hub for such trafficking. The Chronicle states, "Once limited to infamous locales such as Bombay and Bangkok, sex trafficking is now an $8 billion international business, with San Francisco among its largest commercial centers.

There are at least 90 massage parlors in San Francisco where sex is for sale, according to the online sex Web site myredbook.com. The site has been around since 1997 and has more than 55,000 reviews of Northern California sex workers. It is used by johns, yet is also a main monitoring tool for law enforcement."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/06/MNGR1LGUQ41.DTL

The full expose can be found at the following Internet link.

http://sfgate.com/sextrafficking/

Note that South Korea supplies a large number of women who are trafficked in the United States. Prostitution in South Korea accounts for 4% of its gross domestic product.