Israel will keep control of some important points and probably will also attack Palestine to remove elected president. The war between Jews and Muslim is historic and never ending.
The question posed is somewhat premature. It remains to be seen (certainly by me) the actual damage inflicted on Hezbollah and the degree to which Israel actually attains its military objectives.
At the moment I must say, it looks like Israel's aura of military invincibility has suffered considerable shredding, comparable to that we have suffered in Iraq. If this stands, the Israelis would be wise to settle with the Palestinians before Hamas develops the skills and toughness of Hezbollah.
Atheist, Boston, USA wrote...
"What would happen when the laser is fired directly at a dark-skinned Hezbollah ape? The dark skin would tend to absorb greater amounts of laser energy than light skin. Would the ape explode like a missile? Now would be an excellent time to conduct live tests that can answer these and other interesting questions."
Sorry, I came to the United States when I was very young and grew up here. I've only been back to Sweden 3 times in my life. So, while I have the heritage I am more American (for whatever that means) then Swedish.
I do take issue with your point of the Muslim World recognizing Israel. Why should they? Because of 1948? Because of the Holocaust which they Arabs had nothing to do with? The Arabs and then the Muslim Arabs had over 2,000 years of living on that land. I'm not sure what would constitute a chain of title on property, but I think I can make a very good argument 2,000 years is a sufficient amount of time to claim ownership.
I was in the Navy and in Vietnam in 1969 (yup, I'm old) and a Vietnamese person once said to me Vietnam had been invaded and/or occupied 11 times in history. He was sure the American presence wouldn't last. When I asked him why he told me no had lasted. Not the French, not the Japanese, not the Chinese. He told me at one point China occupied Vietnam for 300 years. His point was well made to me. "This is our land and you can take it away from us for a period of time, but we will continue to fight you and drive you from our land. It might take 2 years, it might take 5 years, it might even take 300 years, but we will continue to fight for what is ours." How's it any different in the Middle East today?
The violence in and around Israel started immediately and has continued through today with only minor interruptions. The underlying desire to push the Jews out of the Mid-East hasn't changed since 1948. No amount of Western desire to get the Arab Nations to recognize the right of Israel to exist is going to happen as long as Israel is situated where it is. I seriously doubt whether the PLO or Hezbollah or any other militant group would care if Israel were located in South America.
The basic facts don't change. Israel believes it has a historical and religous right to the land and the Muslims believe they have a religous and historical right to the land. I sincerely doubt anyone is going to change the other parties mind whose claim is more legitimate. Education won't change it. Diplomacy won't change it. They have and will continue to be at each others throats until one side can prevail (if that is even possible).
Dear Atheist, the London arrests (the announcement of which I watched live) did not say they were (1) Muslims (2) arabs. The announcement of their arrest today, after a month-long investigation,shows that it is politically timed to help out Blair who is in dire straits (and about to go on a holiday)...it is no different than the alerts during Bush's First Term. It was intended to keep you scared. Most importantly, BBC TV announced that all those arrested were British-born (although not repeated after that one mention; repeating that would hurt the Lebanon War, you see )! Remember 7/7 was am all-Brit affair inflamed by the massacres of Fallujah.
I understand what you mean, but I disagree. You should speak of peace, not just truce. Whatever happened in 1948, there is now a generation of Israelis to whom Israel is home. You cannot turn back the clock.
And...whammo...there's a war of civlizations. You'll have to change that view, O.S, because it will fail. A modern time crusade is not something anyone wants (except the nut-cases). Israel right to existence should be recognized by Muslims and after that the discussion should be focused on what its borders should be.
(This is an answer to your earlier response to my postings)
I am sorry that you had a bad experience in Gothenburg. I can only hope that not all was bad. I recognize that there have been and still are problems in my home country (as elsewhere - none mentioned none forgotten). But that does not mean that my opinions are invalid. And please do not equate me with with some of the scum of the earth (anti-semits/nazis nor terrorists), with which I have no connection, no shared opinions, no sympaties. You may not have met any jews in Sweden, but I on the other hand have several close jewish friends - so even if you say you do not mean to insult, you managed exactly that. And I never called you a Nazi - someone else might have - but not I.
Even though you lived in Sweden, I doubt very much that you got the full picture of the Swedish sentiment. There's no anti-semitic mind bent i Sweden. There are certainly individuals with a discusting view on jews (as elswhere) just as there are individuals with a discusting view on arabs, danes, americans, french, germans, hindi, chinese, russians. And yes, we have an immigration problem, where current policy is not working. I am not entirely sure (yes I am), but I seem to recall that this is hot topic in the good ole' US of A as well.
I cannot say that I am proud of some of the aspects and actions of individual swedes during WWII, but I am proud of some of other actions. The basic problem for Sweden during WWII was that all countries surrounding Sweden were occupied by the then "invicible" Nazi-German Army (remember that Europe had been at war since 1939 when America started salvaging it in 1944), and any foriegn policy was a careful balance-act for survival and that meant very hard decision making (just to give you an idea - the population size of Nazi germany was more than ten times that of Sweden - and the military might many more times still. Would you swing a club at that monster, when the US was still years from entering into war and the UK was under siege and all other countries in Europe were under the oak of German occupation?).
The problem for a "nation of sheep" - as you so eloquently put it - is that to be able to be something different than words you have to have some power to swing. If you're a nation of nine million it is very difficult to be a super-power with the economic and military power to back it. So what else, than a nation which looks for peace rather than conflict would you have us to be? And may I add that I think what the world needs are more nations looking for peace rather than war.
"Pull back from Europe". Most Europeans still see the US as the "good" super-power, but doubt is seeping in. The reason is of course Irak and the run-up to Irak and the one-eyed view of the rest of the world. Power is great, but it achieves little without credibility and trust. And America has done a great job at loosing just those two in recent years. I was willing to give the US the benefit of doubt before the Irak invasion: "If the US says that Irak has WMD and are involved in Al Quaida, then I prefer to trust the US rather than the mostly untrustworthy dissenters". I was decieved, and so were all the other gullibles like myself. So, are you surprised that I doubt the soundness of the US argument, when it will not accept the notion of immidiate ceasefire in Lebanon (back to the killed children again)?
US actions in Europe, when it entered into the WWII and thereafter is subject to most europeans gratitude. I have visited the beaches of Normandy and recoqnize the sacrifice that America, Canada and other nations made to free Europe (and Asia), but regardless of that glorious history it is impossible to accept that Americas view of "good" and "evil" is ALWAYS right. In particular when America shows a blatant disregard for any dissenting voices ("If you're not with us, then you're against us"). A true "good" super-power listens first and then acts (a good example of that in fairly recent times is Kosovo and Macedonia - where the US through Nato did the right thing after listening and building a true coalition). How can you imagine winning when you trample on friends and foes alike? It's like having a basically good-natured 250 kilo gorilla trying to kill mosquitoes in your living room, while your unsuccessfully trying to calm it.
Back to the actual topic: Hizbollah, Lebanon, Israel. Your view on how to solve the issue is entirely absurd ("Turn the middle-east into rubble"). Not only is it scary, it won't achieve your goal. If you want to protect Israel (which I am all for), then you have to win the hearts and minds of Arabs and Muslims, and remove whats feeding Hizbollah and other terrorist organisations. And right now the flickering of TV images of dead Lebanese children and the US one-eyed view on the conflict is what's feeding those organisations.
I havent read all of the above comments, however i would like to post my openion about the matter.
The crystal truth has become so elusive under the influence of jewish media that even readers and others who comment on the subject, and try to remain unbiased, are straying away. You people, all of you, whether being with or against the conflict now taking place between israel and hizbolah, you all talk of resolutions and UN actions and initiatives and submit to the fact that the state of israel has at least to some extent the right to exist.
As an arab muslim I am not irrational nor erratic in my judgement, and for now the state of israel has secured deservingly a spot on the world map, however never in the hearts or minds of any muslim in the world. They might have the upper hand in terms of military power in this time, but i say let them enjoy it and mess with their toys ranging from apaches and mercaba tanks, and they sure are having a very attracting terrain and dynamic battleground to test their equipment, however our faith states that we will always stay in a state of war with jews and our time will come back, and when it does, jews are going to enjoy the peace that true islam provides them with as long as they remain submissive and obedient unlike their abuse of power, otherwise if they chose to show the miscreant face innate within them, they will be wiped out.
One might ask, does this mean that you people, jews and muslims can never live in peace, and there is no solution whatsoever? No, there is a solution, and it is what i never heard of being discussed as a plausable solution to the problem, the solution is simply truce, not peace. As long as jews have a state, we speak of truce and never peace. When israel disappears, which it will one day, then we speak of peace.
"...the Bush White House, which is definitely NOT my government. These incompetent windbags and nutcases is why we have come to this point to begin with. I don't belive for one minute that a President Kerry or Gore would have gotten us into Iraq, mired us in Afghanistan, not captured Bin Laudiin, alienated the entire world,..."
Since you are a moderate liberal who admires Kerry and Gore, would you tell us what would those respectable men do RIGHT NOW regarding Iraq and Lebanon?
Since the conflict between the Israelis and Hezbollah is already raging, Washington should take advantage of this opportunity to test some of the laser weapons which American scientists have developed. The weapons are described at the following WWW link.
The article at the above WWW link is a tad out of date, given the fast pace of technological progress. The American air force currently has F-16 jet fighters that are equipped with fully operational laser weapons. These weapons have never been used in a real war.
Now would be a good time to test these weapons. Washington should lend 10 of these jet fighters to Jerusalem. The Israelis can, then, test these weapons by firing them directly at the Hezbollah Islamic thugs and their weapons. The laser would simply explode the Hezbollah missile. What would happen when the laser is fired directly at a dark-skinned Hezbollah ape? The dark skin would tend to absorb greater amounts of laser energy than light skin. Would the ape explode like a missile? Now would be an excellent time to conduct live tests that can answer these and other interesting questions.
Please don't get me wrong. I have no desire to see an all out war in the Middle East between Israel and the Arabs. I just don't see a way where it's not going to happen. The Arabs obviously have greater numbers and sooner or later will buy the ordiance and munitions necessary to compete with Israel. I believe they will adjust their tactics accordingly and keep coming at Israel over and over until they drive them out of the Middle East or die trying. This is a religous conflict where I don't see a viable political solution that leaves Israel in the Middle East. Israel will fight to exist and the Arabs will fight to rid themselves of Israel. Pretty much sums up whats been happening for the past 55 or so years with no end in sight.
Oh, by the way, I have this insight only because I'm a Swede living right outside of DC. (Edward, lighten up and smile for this is only a chat meant to exchange view points and maybe a few facts)
In 2005 January, the "New York Times" reported that 7 Chinese companies, 1 North-Korean company, and 1 Taiwanese company (yes, 1 Taiwanese company) exported missile technology to Iran. The Times further reported that Washington had slapped sanctions against the 9 companies. The full article from the Times is available at the following WWW link.
I raise this issue because the Iranian Muslims have been shipping tons of missiles to Hezbollah in Lebanon. As many Western journals have reported, Hezbollah has been firing Iranian missiles at Israel.
In other words, the Taiwanese, the North Koreans, and the Chinese have indirectly helped Hezbollah to kill Israelis.
Get the latest facts about the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. Visit the web page at the following WWW link. Before you use the link, prepend "http://" to the front of the link.
Now, we should start thinking about the end game after the Israelis have killed most of the Hezbollah Islamic thugs.
The proper solution is to station 8000 NATO troops plus 2000 Japanese soldiers at the border separating Lebanon and Israel. We simply cannot rely on the peacekeepers supplied by the United Nations. They have been completely ineffectual in stopping the continuous military attacks by Hezbollah Islamic thugs against the innocent Israeli civilians.
The idea here is that the combined force of 10000 NATO/Japanese soldiers will be authorized to shoot to kill any terrorist and to intervene in any case where brutality arises. For example, if a Lebanese girl runs into a German soldier and begs him to help her because her Islamic rapist has been acquitted of all charges (and this kind of nonsense happens often in Islamic societies), then the German soldier is authorized to lead a crack team of 200 NATO/Japanese troops to hunt down and kill the Islamic rapist.
Of course, the Japanese must repeal Article 9 of their constitution in order to legally send troops overseas. The military operation in Lebanon will provide excellent training on dealing with Islamic Arabic terrorists.
Outside of the American air force, the Japanese air force has the best jet fighters: the Japanese F-2 fighter is surpassed only by the American F-22 fighter. The Japanese air force should assist the Israeli air force in hunting down and killing the Islamic thugs in Lebanon. A squadron of Japanese jet fighters can ably keep the Syrian air force at bay while the Israelis complete their bombing run along the Syrian-Lebanese border.
To Edward who praised Israel for its nobel laureates, technological advances and good economy, are you talking about Israeli or Jewish nobel laureates? There is a difference. I know Jewish people have produced brilliant minds in the last century or so, but they have also benefitted from the great societies they have been able to live in - and now their 'birth right' country is denying the same peaceful and nurturing societies to all in the middle east. Constant war and dirty politics with the already incapable Arab governments have ruined the culture of middle east. The 'why us' mentality is ruining the capabilities of middle east and on top of all this as a topping is the 'oil factor' which makes them vulnerable to power politics. Give the non-Jewish a break and I think they can do good too. Middle East has produced some of the greatest minds and inventions in the last 1000 years. Culture changes but genetics don't change!
Last but not least, producing great minds in recent history can not give one a right to occupation and wars.
The first step to be taken must be to take down the temperature in the Middle East and move toward dialogue among all parties. No one can predict the future, but we can see the consequences of the current situation. Only the most brain dead neocon would consider the Iraq war some kind of stabilizing influence.
The Right must give up idea of a war with Iran and recognize that a viable Palestinian state will take away all the rhetorical excuses for Arab regimes to oppress their own people.
The Left must recognize that Islamic fascism is the central problem faced by the world today—from Bali to Canada to the Middle East. And Iran is now the central player.
Want to stop Iran's nuclear program? CUT THE PRICE OF OIL NOW. A $20 drop in a barrel of oil will force Ahamdenejad to his knees. He's hasn't been building up infrastructure. He's been buying off the poor with petro dollars and suppessing dissent. Cut his money pot and he's gone before he could ever build a bomb.
This means:
Institute a national energy retrofit program for every building in the US. Solar panels on every house and business throughout the West.
Invest in the Big 3 car manufacturers to build hybrids—but over see the development like the government does with bankrupt school district bail outs.
Invest in alternative technologies. Invest in alternative technologies....
And provide aid to Morocco and Jordan to help create more stable regions within the Arab world. Education and hope are the keys to quelling fanaticism—except in the White House. Elect Democrats in November and 2007 will be the Chinese Year of the Investigations. The corruption and criminality of this government will be exposed and held accountable and we'll all go to heaven in a little row boat—except for the religious fanatics who will be Left Behind.
LETS JUST HOPE ISRAEL BEATS UP HEZBOLLAH IN A TERRIBLE WAY. MAYBE THAT WILL ESCALTE INTO THE WAR THAT IS NEEDED, FOR THE USA TO DESTROY THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT.
TO MIKE B, I LIKE YOUR POSTS AND AGREE WITH YOU ON SOME POINTS. IF THE MUSLIMS WERE SMART THEY THEMSELVES WOULD GO AFTER THEIR LEADERS AND HEROS LIKE BIN LADEN. BUT FOR SOME REASON ARAB MUSLIMS ARE ALL BRAINWASHED BY THEIR FALSE RELIGION. HOWEVER I DISAGREE WITH THE IRAQ PART. HUSSEIN WAS AN ENEMY OF AMERICA, HAD USED (YES EVERYONE) USED WMDS IN THE PAST. HE PAID PALESTINIAN SUIDIDE TERRORISTS. HE MOVED THE WMDS HE HAD IN 2003 TO SYRIA (THAT WILL EVENTUALLY COME OUT). THE QUESTION, IN MY VIEW, IS NOT SHOULD WE HAVE GONE INTO IRAQ AND SHOULD WE GET OUT NOW. THE QUESTION WAS, WHO WAS FIRST, IRAQ OR IRAN (OR SYRIA EVEN). THERE WILL NOT BE A WITHDRAWAL OF ANY KIND IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THERE WILL BE A TROOP SHIFT MOST LIKELY TO IRAN. IRANS LEADERS WORDS ARE AMOST GUARANTEEING THAT.
Get a GRIP. "War crimes". Israel. How in HELL does one commit war crimes repelling rocket assaults. Get back in your straight jacket and a double doese of lithium. Or, Viagra. Clearly, you have not seen combat. COWARD.
I wish more people here would put aside for a moment who is to blame in the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and simply consider the situation from the perspective of the future of war. On one side we have not only a well functioning democracy with a tremendous army but a sophisticated citizenry. On the other side we have an extraordinarily inventive phenomenon for bringing down the previous. Israel is being placed in the position of having to commit war crimes to assure her survival. The method of the enemy is such that the population of a sophisticated nation must make an agonizing decision. It either commits war crimes to survive or goes down in defeat. The method of the enemy is such that it is assured of success unless it is countered by wholesale slaughter—and this wholesale slaughter is not easily covered over for a multitude of reasons: the intellectual sophistication of Israel—the morality of democracy generally—not to mention the tactics of the enemy (guerrilla warfare, terrorism, etc.). If this is the picture of the future of war, what we have are societies riven with suspicion, forced to accept the loss of many innocents for the sake of clearing the enemy. It quite simply is the most agonizing war condition imaginable. It cannot be easily covered up by duty, patriotism, religious belief, etc. but is a perpetually felt horror. One combats the enemy at the price of the blood of innocents on one's hands. There is no way around it. A world where all are guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around. The world is moving toward democracy, yes, but the flipside is a world of guerrilla warfare and terrorism. Of course we all put forth our suggestions to stave this off (improve economies, win hearts and minds, etc.) but it seems the technology of modern society can be twisted any which way and in support of any grievance. To the best of my estimation Israel is in a real bind and cannot win without entering the realm of being condemned for war crimes. What we have by the enemy... You continue. I have to go. The library is closing.
So....Turkey will invade a new Kurdish state. Turkey has been murdering Kurdish people for years. They have used poison gas since the 1920's and, more recently, machine guns to wipe out whole villages. Same as the Iranian's. I said DEFEND THEM. That basicly means SCREW TURKEY. If they attack Kurdistan, carpet bomb Turkey back to the Dark Ages. They are mass murders anyways and it is waaayyy past time they were delth with. I am sick and tired of these Arab monsters butchering people and, then, when they are stopped, somehow claiming they are the victims. It's stupid and it's counterproductive. Let the E.U. anti-Semites deal with Turkey. They want to let them into their ragtag old ladies tea and nagging party of a trade union. Fine!
Gypt is NOT Arab. Muslim, yes, Arab, no. They are , by FAR, largest muslim country in ME. They are hopelessly not self-sustaining. The US buys them off, via $3 Bil./year, in an attmpt to achieve "stability, or, what passes for stability. Call the a counterweight to the more extreme nutcases. Hosni's personal bodyguards are all US Delta, his Egyptian brethren would have gifted him 72 virgins, long ago. Without US wheat, practically on the cuff, they wouldn't have bread. They have no oil, they produce nothing, people in Cairo, literally, pee in the street. Wherever you go you need to pak your own toilet paper, or, the Egyptian way, do without. Individually, most people are delightful. Get them started on "politics" and they spout the vile garbage of the controlled press. God help us when that place blows its cork. That $3 Billion is our cork. One more time. The US, perfectly, or, imperfectly, like every sovereign nation, acts SOLELY in its own national interest. The current thinking, especially after 9/11, is that Israel is a VITAL US strategic asset. Yes, the US "encouraged" Egypt to recognize Israel, but, Sadat had other options (Russia). In other words, Sadat viewed the recognition of Israel in the best Egyptian interest. That stuff that Israel is The USs obedient poodle is the Islamo line: the Islamo know better, so what's the point in mindlessly recycling their rationalizations!? Suppose, Israel also acts in THEIR best national interest, how do the Islamos expain away having their glutes handed to them by a nation state that has half the population of the city of Cairo! All these ignorant posters who get their knickers in a knot regarding "ethics", "religion", "morality" have never taken a single PoliSci course; or, they'd know that a nation , only has INTERESTS.
MikeB. Funny you mention Kurdistan. It was reported that Shiites are talking openly now about partitioning Iraq in three. Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. The problem is that the Sunnis don't have any oil wich will force their hand to fight for it. The Kurds have their own issues. If an independent state of Kurdistan is created chances are that Turkey will invade them. So I really don't know how that will work.
Marina asked: "do you have any doubt that what Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad want is complete destruction of Israel?"
IMHO this is nothing but the old "one state" or "two states" game. And my proposition would be: lets start with a some sort of "two step process".
Lets start (a) with two states, in the exact borders of 67, everybody should be able to agree on that.
One state is not possible today, (b) maybe some later day, when both sides have learned to live together, to share ressources, universities, workers etc. Israel has so much to offer.
There are things that cannot be just ordered, that will develop or not. Iran etc will know that as well. They just should not have to agree that the two state solution is the perfect solution forever.
Not to mention that something like the EU could start in that region, that would make everything look different anyway.
Frank, it doesn't require much money to pull back our troops to the Kurdish area, drive every Arab and non-Kurd encountered out, declare and recognize Kurdistan, and otherwise get heck out of there. Let the Iraqi kill each other. It's actually in our nations interst for these whack jobs to kill each other. The sooner the recognize that they have been sold a bill of good by the devils that are their hero's and leaders and kill THEM, the sooner they can set about establishing an infrastrucure that will allow them to raise their children in peace. If they choose not to do this, then let them die until the bodies pile up and they choke on the flies. Just leave of out of their hare brained religion and tribal squabbles.
MikeB. I agree with you. We should not be in Iraq. But we are. Our boys and girls are there. Until they come home, we owe it to them to provide the best equipment we can. We are having money problems. At least that is what the Pentagon is saying. The troops on the field want more armor and they have not been able to provide them, they cannot fix broken equipment for lack of funds. If we are willing to cut other programs to finance the war, then we should have the clarity of mind to cut financial aid to countries that in reallity don't need it.
By the way Mr. McConnel, your response lacks historical context. At the time of the accord Israel had already won the war, but no arab country recognized Israel as a State. The accord called for recognision of the state of Israel by Egypt. This was believed at the time to be an important step for the security of Israel and the stability of the region. And even if you don't like it, we paid for it, we still paying. I really don't understand why you argue somehting that is a fact.
Frank, you haven't looked at my posts. I don't think we have any reason whatsoever to be in Iraq other than the guarrantee the independence of the Kurdish people in the North. We need to stop messing around in the Arab world. Let the Kurd's declare an independent Kurdistan, run the recent Arab infiltrators from Turkey, Iran, and Al Sadr's private army out (with the help of the Kurd's), and hep them defend themselves. Other than Israel, we have no friends there and no reason to be there. We CAN be independent of Arab oil in a very short period of time and it is way past time we did that. Draw a line in the sand and keep them behind it. Aab culture and religion have nothing to offer us by heartbreak and duplicitous dealings. Get out! Now!!
So tell me Mr McConnel, where is the pragmatism in giving Egypt so much money? What is the reason? You just said that we don't do anything for free. Can it be that part of the accord was the financiial aid package? Wow, what a concept. I guess your priest will be surprised abou how poorly you make your case lot of noise but little substance.
Sometimes I wish it would be as simple as being an all out war in the Middle East; with clear lines drawn to indicate who was with whom and fighting for what. Then it would have a start and a finish.
BUT - The main problem here is that the opposing Arab nations know that they cannot fight a traditional all out war with Isreal (and "friends" so to speak) because they will lose. They have tried before and lost.
So the new war of the 21st century is one faught hiding behind civilians; utilizing the media and politics. The is the very reason why groups like Al Queda, Hezbollah, etc exists. This is why the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan persists.
The ultimate key to all this is openess to diversity via education, and economic stability. If we have to be crippled first before we realize that this is the solution - then I'd say that we are on the right track in the Middle East. It has to get worse before it gets better?
Frank! My priest won't believe the way you are turning me into an Israeli! Frank, you are sick! "Protecting Israel from Egypt?" There is a famous Life magazine photo, Frank. It shows nearly 20,000 Egyptian bodies rotting in the desert. In '73, Nixon/Kissinger FORCED Sharon to relaese his death-hold on the 3rd Egyptian army. Get a JOB. Get a Girlfriend. Stop that "ugly American" stuff. You don't have a CLUE. Not a CLUE. Neither does your imagination allow for what would happen if Israel REALLY were to take off the gloves. I DO. You also have NO idea of the pragmatism of US policy. We, the US, don't "adopt" countries, we don't do "favors", we, like every nation, identify OUR intersts, and we act on them: let that penetrate your scull. The Arab press shows DR. Rice as a monkey. Believe me, that lady is no monkey; she can chew 'em up & spit 'em out, anytime she so choses.
MikeB. I frankly think you are confused. I'm not advocating for any arab organization. I'm saying only that Israel doesn' need our resources to stand on her own. I'm saying we have serious problems financing the Iraq war and billions of dollars in money and equipment will go a long way to better equip our troops that are exposed in the region. I'm saying that the United State goverment should stop bailing out Israel every time they feel the itch. Our policies should be pro-active towars our interests and not re-active to Israel actions. There is a fact that no one here want to address, and that is that we, the last super power on earth, have no control over the situation. Why do you think that is?
Frank - Since words and insults actually mean something coming from the mouths of people other than complete twits, let's look at some imagry from the Muslem world. Though the Western media (and, I note, the Washington Post) chooses to call the Iranian provided long range rocket used by Hizbolla the Shahab, it's name in the Muslem world is the HUNAIN. Now, the Battle of Hunain is famous, or infamous, depending upon your point of view, throughoput the Middle East. In his "messing about" in Medina, attempting to formulate and found Islam, one of Muhammid's hencemen murdered someone. It was the custom there to pay blood money for murder and Muhammid and his followers were broke. So they borrowed money from one of them, actually a Jew that had hidden Muhammid and his followers. Rather than repay that debt, Muhammid had a convenient "vision" that he was to expell the Jews from Medina. Later, when he seized power, he acted upon that "vision". The Jews, however, retreated to a fortified area of the city and resisted. After being overwhelmed, the Jews - numbering in the thousands - had their land, their homes and businesses stole. And, Muhammid had another convenient "vision" whereby "temporary marriage" was allowed. So the Muslem men raped the Jewish women, they murderd all of the men and male children over the age of 5, and sold the women into slavery. THAT is what Hizbolla, Hamas, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran have in store for Israel! That is the image Arabic television is showing to the Arab street. That us the sort of hatred being generated. This isn't some tiny little diagreement over land or prisoners. It is an all out war of annihilation, total devistation, the murder of a whole people and dismantling of an entire country and history. If Hizbolla suceeds in this, the next target of fundimentalist Islam *will* be you.
I identify my German roots because we "good" Germans were just as scummy as the Swedes. We Germans caused our own past deaths, just as the Lebanese are doing now. Your "sneeze" expression reveals how you Swedes have always been hypocritical regarding Jewish lives. The Israelis have bombed & killed in Hitzbollah neighborhoods. GUESS who is likely to be found in Hitzbollah neighborhoods. You sanctimonous Swedish hypocrite. You don't "like" the killing? Really? Have your smug, leftist, cowardly government find some REAL soldiers, put them in harms way, YOU root out the Hitzbollah. That is the ONLY way that ylou can prove that you don't like the killing.
To: Edward who continually reminds us he's German.
I'm Swedish. We don't much like the thought of anyone killing anybody. I hate the thought of the Jews killing the Arabs as much as I do the Arabs killing the Jews. To me it's just people killing other people. The planet has a long and sorted history of this happening.
However, to think either side is more right or wrong is a moot point. The Arabs hate the Jews, they don't want them on what they consider is their land and they don't like anyone who supports Israel. The Israels know this. They know they are out numbered a couple of hundred to one by the Arabs and it scares the hell out of them. They are well aware their only chance of survival is through a strong and efficient military and alliances with the United States and European allies. Over the past 50 years anytime an Arab has sneezed at Israel they have been subjected to getting hit over the head with a baseball bat. Currently, Israel is beating the hell out of the Arabs yet again for swiping a couple of soldiers. One responder to this post stated over 1,000 Lebanese have died so far and I won't quibble with her statement. About 50 Israelis have died last I knew. Sounds about right.
Inevitably, Israel and the Muslim States will engage in an all out war. Nothing anyone can envision today will stop this conflict. As Edward stated earlier there will be no winners. Just a whole lot of death and destruction and not much else.
to: the Anonynmous poster questioning Israel/US techology pooling.
1) the merkava tank is the most advanced desrt warfare tank. Invented & Israeli built
2) armed, remote controlled drones, Invented & Israeli built
3) guided aircraft aimed missiles, Invented & Israeli built
4) satellite imagery, Invented & Israeli built
5) secret technolgy deployed at most major Western facilies, Invented & Israeli built
6) Anti-missile passenger airliner protection, Invented & Israeli built
7) Israel gets approx. $3 Bil. US military dollars per year, approx. what Saudi "roayals" spend on booze & hookers.
8) Electronic guidence flight helmets, Invented & Israeli built
9) Command & control aircraft. Invented & Israeli built: they just sold $2 Bil. worth to India
10) every reliable Western country purchses Israeli military technology & training.
I WILL LEAVE IT AT THIS. ME BEING A CHRISTIAN FEEL A TIE TO THE JEWISH COMMUNITY (JESUS CHRIST WAS A JEW). I DON'T HATE/DISLIKE MY JEWISH BRETHREN BECAUSE THEY REJECT JESUS CHRIST AS THE MESSIAH (MY SAVIOR). AND I DON'T FEEL JEWISH DISLIKE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT JEWISH. BUT JEWISH AND CHRISTIANS ARE MOSTLY SIMILIAR; MAINLY DUE TO THE OLD TESTAMENT AND FEEL CHRISTIANS DERIVE FROM JUDIASM. CHRIST SAID LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR, BUT HAVE A HARD TIME TRUSTING MUSLIMS. I SYMPATHIZE WITH THE JEWS AND ISRAEL. THEY WON A WAR AND THEY WON THE LAND FROM THE MUSLIMS. SO IF I PLAY POKER AND LOSE 1 MILLION DOLLARS; I SHOULD BE ABLE TO RETAIN MY MONEY BECAUSE IT IS OR WAS MY HARD EARNED MONEY....I GUESS I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN STUPID ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE HUH???
Mr McConnel, spare me your sophomoric insults. You put in evidence your ignorance. Remember that due to the Camp Davis Peace accords between Israel and Egypt we ended up paying Egypt for the security of Israel, we still are, we kept our word. My post has nothing to do with God, or the way Isralis worship, or the way they look, or if they are secular or not, I don't really care. My post was addressing the fact that the United States should not be expending billions of dollars in aid for a state that by your own addmission have the technology, the industrial capability, and human resources to stand on her own, specially in a time when we need the resources for our own. By the way, we share our technology with them also correct? We have trained their forces also, correct? But I guess we have to pay billions of dollars to them to receive in kind. It is not a difficult concept Mr. McConnel, shouldn't our goverment put the interests of nationalistic americans above the interests of nationalistic isrealis?
to: USMC, Chula Vista
Sorry. Didn't mean to stir anything up. Asa fromer tech guy at DOD here is all I meant: Yes, ther is a robust exchange of technology. Nobody can be the best at everything. Their special forces are THE best, why beat a dead horse. The patriot missiles were a dud until their advanced algorithms straightened that mess, you know that. Our fighters do use their air-to-ground missiles, that is not a secret. Our tanks do use their advanced armor, again, that is not a secret. Their Arrow ant-balistic system is the only active ant-balistic defense in the world; we have access to thaeir technology because we helped partiallly finance their R&D. Our special forces, like theirs, use their most advanced galil assault rifles. Oh, of additional interest, 80% of airport anti-terrorist technology is Israeli. Like they say, it is a small world (we are using their advanced armed drones).
What do you know about the number of US lives that have been saved via direct Israeli intervention & intelligence, & technology?? NONE!!
IF YOU DO TELL ME..??? Here's a question though??? how many Lobbyist are there in the US trying to get money for Israel (What is annual amount the US gives Israel). what jets do the Israeli's have and tanks, and artillery, etc, etc...so please tell me what what tech. because Israel gets their technology from us. What satillites does Israel have??? US has Satillites capabilities, Israel does not..so intelligence, maybe so, but not from these two past wars (Afgan/Irag).
This USMC, Chula Vista guy has it 100% correct. The US is a christian country founded on christian principles. I'm a Jew. I understand that, and, glad of it. Hey, imagine a Jew like me living in a Muslim place. Does a crucifix bother me? Why should it. Does a magen david bother my numerous christian buddies? They love coming to our Jewish celebrations, we go to theirs. Its only the intolerant Islamo-nut cases with their 72 virgins who have single-handedly managed to convert religious belief into porno/mayhem/murder. They'll get theirs, don't worry.
John McConnel - Welcome! I agree whole heartedly with you. The problem is that these leftist lunatics think they are liberals and keep posting back at people like me, who actually are liberals, that we are Bush wing nuts. For some ungodly reason, the American left and European liberals and left wingnuts decided to adopt Hamas and Hizbolla and their allied governments in Iran, Syria, and Lebanon like they were they "pet of the month". Now, ignoring the fact that these pornographic purveyers of fundimentalist Islam would kill these silly, self-absorbed whack jobs on sight for being homosexuals-feminists-aetheists-infidels-and-for-a-million-other-reasons, we have nothing whatsoever in common with them. These leftists appear to be completely unaware that Hizbolla and the rest of the fundimentalist Islamic world is actually claiming Spain as part of their territory stole during the European Crusades! It appears that one of the nuttier view of this variety of Islam is that they can NEVER surrender territory or people once subject to Islam. So they also claim all of Southern Italy, Greece, and a large swarth of Europe. I would almost be tempted to hand it over to these fanatics with the nowledge that those cold blooded killers would rid us of a lot of whining, judgemental, hyper-hypocritical Europeans....especially the French and Austrians. But, then, once that area was forcibly settled by their Islamic replacements, we would need to go through all of the trouble of getting rod of them.
Excuse me on this...but THE US MILITARY USING ISRAELI TECHNOLOGY??? REALLY!!! THAT IS NEW TO ME. SECONDLY I SERVED 10 1/2 YEARS IN MY BELOVED MARINE CORPS, AND I WE DON'T GET OUR TECHNOLOGY FROM ISRAEL. YES, WE'VE TRAINED WITH THEM AND YES THEY ARE ONE THE BEST IN THE WORLD (MILITARILY), BUT THEY DON'T COMPARE TO OUR ARMED FORCES...THE MAIN DIFFERENCE I WILL SAY IS...THE ISRAELI GOV'T DOESN'T BOG DOWN THEIR MILITARY AS THE US DOES. THE US MILITARY GET TOO MUCH B.S. FROM POLITICIANS WHO HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT IS REALLY GOING DOWN
I respect the mere fact that you are human, regardless of your religious background though it is none. But, I will keep to my faith (As a Chrisian)that there is a God and Christ is my Savior. That said, this Country was founded on Christianity and our fore-fathers were Christian for the most part (read history: George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc, etc). People like you have torn down our moral and values...I don't force or expect people to pray or believe what I do. You probably want every cross taken out of every building in the US as well as the words under God...You hypercrit. You're probably a tree hugger!!! Well since I am not...does that give me the right to go burn every tree down because I am not an environmentalist. Don't get me wrong, I believe in preserving our environment and protecting endangered species. Please answer these questions: is it ok with you to have the Koran in school? have classes on Hinduism, Muslim and Budism??? And yes, SEX education in elementary is ok too, right???
My name is actually, John McConnel, but, thought that Abraham Cohen name would perk up your anti-Semitic anntennae. Frank, you need a job. Get one. Also, get a decent girl-friend. Some serious reading & eductaion won't hurt you one bit. As for US policy. Be assured US policy is formulated to protect US interests, as it should be. The US spends as much annual $$ on Egypt. How many Israeli boots are on the ground in furtherance of US interests, versus Egyptian boots? I can tell that yu have not seen fit to serve in the US military. Can you imagine GIs, who are using Israeli technology, training (yes, training in Israel, by Israelis) taking your absurd stance?! What do you know about the number of US lives that have been saved via direct Israeli intervention & intelligence, & technology? Frank, stop embarrassing our country and babbling Hitz-speak. Forget religion. Clearly, you know nothing of Israeli society: they don't invoke God, they are super secular, you couldn't tell them apart from Americans, they are nationalistic, ie. they won't be messed with. I did two tours of duty in Israel. My kids didn't notice 1% difference between Israel & New Jersey. Frank, you gotta get out more.
Frank - "...This is not my definition Mike, is our own govermnent definition of Moderate Arab goverments..." I take it you mean the Bush White House, which is definitely NOT my government. These incompetent windbags and nutcases is why we have come to this point to begin with. I don't belive for one minute that a President Kerry or Gore would have gotten us into Iraq, mired us in Afghanistan, not captured Bin Laudiin, alienated the entire world, so over-extended our military and budget, and hamstrung this country that we couldn't react if our lives depended upon it. The problem is, our lives DO depend upon it, and we are screwed.....
Do you really believe these radical Muslim groups are interested in negotiating. they are only interested in: No Israel, exterminating Jews and, Death to America. Israel must be permitted to exist. You say Israel needs to reevaluate its' tactics and strategies!! Understand that it is inflicting excessive carnage!! And that it is below the dignity of a democracy. And oh yes that it blatanly using excessive force...with little regard to innocent victims in the process. I don't hear you condeming Hezbollah for storing arms and using rockets where they can use humans as human shields....why not!!! Hezbollah knows what they are doing...they are sending innocent people to their death to accomplish their means.
MikeB. Ok, would you prefer the Bin Laden family instead of the Saud family in Saudi Arabia? Or would you prefer the old Nasser regime in Egypt? Perhaps will be better to have the sunni religous sect in charge
of Jordan? This is not my definition Mike, is our own govermnent definition of Moderate Arab goverments.
Mary, the Israelis are not "justifying" anything. They do not owe an explanation. They are flushing a UN-clogged toilet. Dan, from Cleveland, seems to grasp it.
Moderate Arab governments? Please be so kind as to name one? Right now, in an Arab League Meeting, all of those "moderate" Arab governments are sending more money and support to Hizbolla swine. That isn't moderate! And, echoing them is (ir)rational thinker, who writes, being indicative of the neoNazi's rampant the African Amercian community these days, "the world problems and all wars are the fault of the Jews". God, how silly and stupdid and ignorant and morally bankrupt and despicable. If I could be granted one wish, it would be to send this deluded snot off to serve with his Hizbolla brothers. After they slit his throat for being black AND Amercian, we could ponder why he was to insane as to beieve that the cause of anti-Semitism and evil had anything to offer him or anyone faintly resembling human. Hizbolla and Hamas are composed of mad dogs, whack jobs, and cold blooded killers, who worship evil. They pull on the mantle of Islam to justify their religion of death and fear, but they they do not worship the God Muhammad spoke of.
I read many of your comments and agree and strongly disagree with some of you. Let me start off by saying, "terrorists have no rules of engagement and could cares less of human live" (look at: suicide bombers). Hence look up the definition of terrorism and what is the common denominator with that word...muslims (Al Queda, Hamas and Hezbolla are examples)! Hamas and Hezbolla launch rockets from within civilian communities: houses, apartments, schools, hospitals, and mosques (true fact)into Israel. Israel, in turn ends up killing civilians, wrecking homes and hospitals, and mosques (due to terrorist using individuals as human shields)in retaliation. The U.S. has witnessed the exact same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Arabs/Muslimes use the results (death and destruction) to portray themselves as the victims. As for Hezbolla I do recall their cowardiness by murdering 240+Marines who were there as a peace force for the UN, along with other countries. Israel is doing what we should've done a long time ago to Hezbolla in retaliation.
Excessive civilan deaths. "Excessive" is code for "non-Jewish". HaHaHa. The Hitzbollah masquarade as civilians, hide amongst them. Nobody worries about Jewish deaths: Jews are expendable. Oh, that terrible war: if the Islamos were winning it would turn into a "good" one. Moral high ground? You morons! When someone poses an existential threat, a sane person doesn't worry about moral high ground, they concentrate on taking them OUT: that's as "moral" as it gets. You messed with the Jews, now, the "God" of the Old Testament is telling them to turn the other cheek; the Islamo cheek.
I see this as Israel following America's lead - if we can go and attack foreign countries because we're on some hunt for illusive international terrorists, why can't Israel? They're simply going with the precedent we've set. We can't condemn a country that we have adopted and nurtured when it copies our actions, even in raining down bombs on innocent towns for the possible "terrorist cell" it might contain. Afghanistan, anyone? In the 70s/80s the U.S.S.R. bombed it "back to the Stone Age", and we helped do it again a few years ago. And then we set our sights on Iraq.
In no way do I advocate what Israel is doing, but I can understand why and how they're justifying it. That said, I must state that I concur with Frank in Lawrenceville - we must cease funding Israel. If they had to finance their own wars, they'd be a little more frugal. Further, their fabulous industry and earnestness to work with what they have ought to positively influence their neighbors. Unfortunately, such an intense military build-up on their side only spurs fear and even more jealousy on the other side of the border. Israel sticks out like a sore thumb - and is an easy target for manipulative mullahs wishing to distract their poor uneducated people from their everyday misery. It's easier to fight an enemy than to change yourself.
And truly, how long must we reference the Holocaust? Do we still owe 40 acres and reparations for indignities that southerners caused to their black slaves/neighbors, even if a good percentage of current Americans' families hadn't even arrived in the U.S. by 1860? By all means, teach it, emphasize it, but do not presume to tell me that it will happen to the same people again. It won't. But it has happened to others - look at the Hutu/Tutsi conflicts in Rwanda. Look at the former Yugoslavia, and what happened in the Killing Fields.
I agree with our Indian correspondents - why should only Muslim extremists be singled out? Christian extremists have threatened our government for years, be it David Koresh or Pat Robertson (with his helpful calls for the assassination of foreign leaders). There are rifle-wielding Mormon cults out west who abuse child-wives and terrorize their own young men, and large "Christian" lobbies who raise exorbitant amounts of money to shanghai our federal legislature into addressing "moral" questions and not settling actual social or international problems. I'd like to reference my favorite New Testament phrase, that of "removing the timber from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your brother's eye".
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (233)
ybwadhi ohdmb jyfklwas azhq yohwzt gdcsar tdlevbiwm http://www.nvrzyeah.lbwdauneq.com
November 22, 2007 8:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ybwadhi ohdmb jyfklwas azhq yohwzt gdcsar tdlevbiwm http://www.nvrzyeah.lbwdauneq.com
November 22, 2007 8:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ybwadhi ohdmb jyfklwas azhq yohwzt gdcsar tdlevbiwm http://www.nvrzyeah.lbwdauneq.com
November 22, 2007 8:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
mgafivuoy mznfcatq hzvodwbsx yewlpbm yhewsku soeuxndjf vcopfk
November 22, 2007 8:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel will keep control of some important points and probably will also attack Palestine to remove elected president. The war between Jews and Muslim is historic and never ending.
August 21, 2006 4:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The question posed is somewhat premature. It remains to be seen (certainly by me) the actual damage inflicted on Hezbollah and the degree to which Israel actually attains its military objectives.
At the moment I must say, it looks like Israel's aura of military invincibility has suffered considerable shredding, comparable to that we have suffered in Iraq. If this stands, the Israelis would be wise to settle with the Palestinians before Hamas develops the skills and toughness of Hezbollah.
August 14, 2006 12:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Atheist, Boston, USA wrote...
"What would happen when the laser is fired directly at a dark-skinned Hezbollah ape? The dark skin would tend to absorb greater amounts of laser energy than light skin. Would the ape explode like a missile? Now would be an excellent time to conduct live tests that can answer these and other interesting questions."
This statement appears racist to me.
I hope American's do not think like this still.
August 11, 2006 6:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To: Jonas in Stockholm
Sorry, I came to the United States when I was very young and grew up here. I've only been back to Sweden 3 times in my life. So, while I have the heritage I am more American (for whatever that means) then Swedish.
I do take issue with your point of the Muslim World recognizing Israel. Why should they? Because of 1948? Because of the Holocaust which they Arabs had nothing to do with? The Arabs and then the Muslim Arabs had over 2,000 years of living on that land. I'm not sure what would constitute a chain of title on property, but I think I can make a very good argument 2,000 years is a sufficient amount of time to claim ownership.
I was in the Navy and in Vietnam in 1969 (yup, I'm old) and a Vietnamese person once said to me Vietnam had been invaded and/or occupied 11 times in history. He was sure the American presence wouldn't last. When I asked him why he told me no had lasted. Not the French, not the Japanese, not the Chinese. He told me at one point China occupied Vietnam for 300 years. His point was well made to me. "This is our land and you can take it away from us for a period of time, but we will continue to fight you and drive you from our land. It might take 2 years, it might take 5 years, it might even take 300 years, but we will continue to fight for what is ours." How's it any different in the Middle East today?
The violence in and around Israel started immediately and has continued through today with only minor interruptions. The underlying desire to push the Jews out of the Mid-East hasn't changed since 1948. No amount of Western desire to get the Arab Nations to recognize the right of Israel to exist is going to happen as long as Israel is situated where it is. I seriously doubt whether the PLO or Hezbollah or any other militant group would care if Israel were located in South America.
The basic facts don't change. Israel believes it has a historical and religous right to the land and the Muslims believe they have a religous and historical right to the land. I sincerely doubt anyone is going to change the other parties mind whose claim is more legitimate. Education won't change it. Diplomacy won't change it. They have and will continue to be at each others throats until one side can prevail (if that is even possible).
August 10, 2006 12:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Test
August 10, 2006 12:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Dear Atheist, the London arrests (the announcement of which I watched live) did not say they were (1) Muslims (2) arabs. The announcement of their arrest today, after a month-long investigation,shows that it is politically timed to help out Blair who is in dire straits (and about to go on a holiday)...it is no different than the alerts during Bush's First Term. It was intended to keep you scared. Most importantly, BBC TV announced that all those arrested were British-born (although not repeated after that one mention; repeating that would hurt the Lebanon War, you see )! Remember 7/7 was am all-Brit affair inflamed by the massacres of Fallujah.
August 10, 2006 9:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
O.S August 10, 2006 04:36 AM
I understand what you mean, but I disagree. You should speak of peace, not just truce. Whatever happened in 1948, there is now a generation of Israelis to whom Israel is home. You cannot turn back the clock.
August 10, 2006 8:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Albert, Greenberg,
Finally, a voice of reason here! Thanks. An addition to your list:
Stop supporting dictatorship, such as Saudi Arabia, in the Middle East
August 10, 2006 6:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
O.S,
And...whammo...there's a war of civlizations. You'll have to change that view, O.S, because it will fail. A modern time crusade is not something anyone wants (except the nut-cases). Israel right to existence should be recognized by Muslims and after that the discussion should be focused on what its borders should be.
August 10, 2006 6:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Millersville, Maryland,
I know one Swede living outside Washington. It would have to be too much of a coincidence. ƒr det du Anders?
August 10, 2006 6:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
MikeB,
(This is an answer to your earlier response to my postings)
I am sorry that you had a bad experience in Gothenburg. I can only hope that not all was bad. I recognize that there have been and still are problems in my home country (as elsewhere - none mentioned none forgotten). But that does not mean that my opinions are invalid. And please do not equate me with with some of the scum of the earth (anti-semits/nazis nor terrorists), with which I have no connection, no shared opinions, no sympaties. You may not have met any jews in Sweden, but I on the other hand have several close jewish friends - so even if you say you do not mean to insult, you managed exactly that. And I never called you a Nazi - someone else might have - but not I.
Even though you lived in Sweden, I doubt very much that you got the full picture of the Swedish sentiment. There's no anti-semitic mind bent i Sweden. There are certainly individuals with a discusting view on jews (as elswhere) just as there are individuals with a discusting view on arabs, danes, americans, french, germans, hindi, chinese, russians. And yes, we have an immigration problem, where current policy is not working. I am not entirely sure (yes I am), but I seem to recall that this is hot topic in the good ole' US of A as well.
I cannot say that I am proud of some of the aspects and actions of individual swedes during WWII, but I am proud of some of other actions. The basic problem for Sweden during WWII was that all countries surrounding Sweden were occupied by the then "invicible" Nazi-German Army (remember that Europe had been at war since 1939 when America started salvaging it in 1944), and any foriegn policy was a careful balance-act for survival and that meant very hard decision making (just to give you an idea - the population size of Nazi germany was more than ten times that of Sweden - and the military might many more times still. Would you swing a club at that monster, when the US was still years from entering into war and the UK was under siege and all other countries in Europe were under the oak of German occupation?).
The problem for a "nation of sheep" - as you so eloquently put it - is that to be able to be something different than words you have to have some power to swing. If you're a nation of nine million it is very difficult to be a super-power with the economic and military power to back it. So what else, than a nation which looks for peace rather than conflict would you have us to be? And may I add that I think what the world needs are more nations looking for peace rather than war.
"Pull back from Europe". Most Europeans still see the US as the "good" super-power, but doubt is seeping in. The reason is of course Irak and the run-up to Irak and the one-eyed view of the rest of the world. Power is great, but it achieves little without credibility and trust. And America has done a great job at loosing just those two in recent years. I was willing to give the US the benefit of doubt before the Irak invasion: "If the US says that Irak has WMD and are involved in Al Quaida, then I prefer to trust the US rather than the mostly untrustworthy dissenters". I was decieved, and so were all the other gullibles like myself. So, are you surprised that I doubt the soundness of the US argument, when it will not accept the notion of immidiate ceasefire in Lebanon (back to the killed children again)?
US actions in Europe, when it entered into the WWII and thereafter is subject to most europeans gratitude. I have visited the beaches of Normandy and recoqnize the sacrifice that America, Canada and other nations made to free Europe (and Asia), but regardless of that glorious history it is impossible to accept that Americas view of "good" and "evil" is ALWAYS right. In particular when America shows a blatant disregard for any dissenting voices ("If you're not with us, then you're against us"). A true "good" super-power listens first and then acts (a good example of that in fairly recent times is Kosovo and Macedonia - where the US through Nato did the right thing after listening and building a true coalition). How can you imagine winning when you trample on friends and foes alike? It's like having a basically good-natured 250 kilo gorilla trying to kill mosquitoes in your living room, while your unsuccessfully trying to calm it.
Back to the actual topic: Hizbollah, Lebanon, Israel. Your view on how to solve the issue is entirely absurd ("Turn the middle-east into rubble"). Not only is it scary, it won't achieve your goal. If you want to protect Israel (which I am all for), then you have to win the hearts and minds of Arabs and Muslims, and remove whats feeding Hizbollah and other terrorist organisations. And right now the flickering of TV images of dead Lebanese children and the US one-eyed view on the conflict is what's feeding those organisations.
August 10, 2006 6:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Feast your eyes on the article by the "Los Angeles Times" at the following WWW link.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-london10aug10,1,1017804.story?coll=la-headlines-world
According to the article, the British police have arrested 18 Muslims who were just about to commit a terrorist act.
Here's my speculation. Most of the 18 are Arab Muslims. What do you speculate?
August 10, 2006 5:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I havent read all of the above comments, however i would like to post my openion about the matter.
The crystal truth has become so elusive under the influence of jewish media that even readers and others who comment on the subject, and try to remain unbiased, are straying away. You people, all of you, whether being with or against the conflict now taking place between israel and hizbolah, you all talk of resolutions and UN actions and initiatives and submit to the fact that the state of israel has at least to some extent the right to exist.
As an arab muslim I am not irrational nor erratic in my judgement, and for now the state of israel has secured deservingly a spot on the world map, however never in the hearts or minds of any muslim in the world. They might have the upper hand in terms of military power in this time, but i say let them enjoy it and mess with their toys ranging from apaches and mercaba tanks, and they sure are having a very attracting terrain and dynamic battleground to test their equipment, however our faith states that we will always stay in a state of war with jews and our time will come back, and when it does, jews are going to enjoy the peace that true islam provides them with as long as they remain submissive and obedient unlike their abuse of power, otherwise if they chose to show the miscreant face innate within them, they will be wiped out.
One might ask, does this mean that you people, jews and muslims can never live in peace, and there is no solution whatsoever? No, there is a solution, and it is what i never heard of being discussed as a plausable solution to the problem, the solution is simply truce, not peace. As long as jews have a state, we speak of truce and never peace. When israel disappears, which it will one day, then we speak of peace.
August 10, 2006 4:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Mike B wrote:
"...the Bush White House, which is definitely NOT my government. These incompetent windbags and nutcases is why we have come to this point to begin with. I don't belive for one minute that a President Kerry or Gore would have gotten us into Iraq, mired us in Afghanistan, not captured Bin Laudiin, alienated the entire world,..."
Since you are a moderate liberal who admires Kerry and Gore, would you tell us what would those respectable men do RIGHT NOW regarding Iraq and Lebanon?
August 10, 2006 3:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Since the conflict between the Israelis and Hezbollah is already raging, Washington should take advantage of this opportunity to test some of the laser weapons which American scientists have developed. The weapons are described at the following WWW link.
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030505/energy_weapons.shtml
The article at the above WWW link is a tad out of date, given the fast pace of technological progress. The American air force currently has F-16 jet fighters that are equipped with fully operational laser weapons. These weapons have never been used in a real war.
Now would be a good time to test these weapons. Washington should lend 10 of these jet fighters to Jerusalem. The Israelis can, then, test these weapons by firing them directly at the Hezbollah Islamic thugs and their weapons. The laser would simply explode the Hezbollah missile. What would happen when the laser is fired directly at a dark-skinned Hezbollah ape? The dark skin would tend to absorb greater amounts of laser energy than light skin. Would the ape explode like a missile? Now would be an excellent time to conduct live tests that can answer these and other interesting questions.
August 10, 2006 3:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To: RMY in Hawaii
Please don't get me wrong. I have no desire to see an all out war in the Middle East between Israel and the Arabs. I just don't see a way where it's not going to happen. The Arabs obviously have greater numbers and sooner or later will buy the ordiance and munitions necessary to compete with Israel. I believe they will adjust their tactics accordingly and keep coming at Israel over and over until they drive them out of the Middle East or die trying. This is a religous conflict where I don't see a viable political solution that leaves Israel in the Middle East. Israel will fight to exist and the Arabs will fight to rid themselves of Israel. Pretty much sums up whats been happening for the past 55 or so years with no end in sight.
Oh, by the way, I have this insight only because I'm a Swede living right outside of DC. (Edward, lighten up and smile for this is only a chat meant to exchange view points and maybe a few facts)
August 10, 2006 2:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
You already know what my comment is.
It is the Matrix of your reality.
Now watch it happen with disbelieving eyes.
August 10, 2006 2:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
In 2005 January, the "New York Times" reported that 7 Chinese companies, 1 North-Korean company, and 1 Taiwanese company (yes, 1 Taiwanese company) exported missile technology to Iran. The Times further reported that Washington had slapped sanctions against the 9 companies. The full article from the Times is available at the following WWW link.
http://www.missilethreat.com/news/200501182320.html
I raise this issue because the Iranian Muslims have been shipping tons of missiles to Hezbollah in Lebanon. As many Western journals have reported, Hezbollah has been firing Iranian missiles at Israel.
In other words, the Taiwanese, the North Koreans, and the Chinese have indirectly helped Hezbollah to kill Israelis.
August 10, 2006 2:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Good afternoon, Asia. Good morning, Europe.
Get the latest facts about the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. Visit the web page at the following WWW link. Before you use the link, prepend "http://" to the front of the link.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict
Now, we should start thinking about the end game after the Israelis have killed most of the Hezbollah Islamic thugs.
The proper solution is to station 8000 NATO troops plus 2000 Japanese soldiers at the border separating Lebanon and Israel. We simply cannot rely on the peacekeepers supplied by the United Nations. They have been completely ineffectual in stopping the continuous military attacks by Hezbollah Islamic thugs against the innocent Israeli civilians.
The idea here is that the combined force of 10000 NATO/Japanese soldiers will be authorized to shoot to kill any terrorist and to intervene in any case where brutality arises. For example, if a Lebanese girl runs into a German soldier and begs him to help her because her Islamic rapist has been acquitted of all charges (and this kind of nonsense happens often in Islamic societies), then the German soldier is authorized to lead a crack team of 200 NATO/Japanese troops to hunt down and kill the Islamic rapist.
Of course, the Japanese must repeal Article 9 of their constitution in order to legally send troops overseas. The military operation in Lebanon will provide excellent training on dealing with Islamic Arabic terrorists.
Outside of the American air force, the Japanese air force has the best jet fighters: the Japanese F-2 fighter is surpassed only by the American F-22 fighter. The Japanese air force should assist the Israeli air force in hunting down and killing the Islamic thugs in Lebanon. A squadron of Japanese jet fighters can ably keep the Syrian air force at bay while the Israelis complete their bombing run along the Syrian-Lebanese border.
August 10, 2006 1:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To Edward who praised Israel for its nobel laureates, technological advances and good economy, are you talking about Israeli or Jewish nobel laureates? There is a difference. I know Jewish people have produced brilliant minds in the last century or so, but they have also benefitted from the great societies they have been able to live in - and now their 'birth right' country is denying the same peaceful and nurturing societies to all in the middle east. Constant war and dirty politics with the already incapable Arab governments have ruined the culture of middle east. The 'why us' mentality is ruining the capabilities of middle east and on top of all this as a topping is the 'oil factor' which makes them vulnerable to power politics. Give the non-Jewish a break and I think they can do good too. Middle East has produced some of the greatest minds and inventions in the last 1000 years. Culture changes but genetics don't change!
Last but not least, producing great minds in recent history can not give one a right to occupation and wars.
August 10, 2006 12:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The first step to be taken must be to take down the temperature in the Middle East and move toward dialogue among all parties. No one can predict the future, but we can see the consequences of the current situation. Only the most brain dead neocon would consider the Iraq war some kind of stabilizing influence.
The Right must give up idea of a war with Iran and recognize that a viable Palestinian state will take away all the rhetorical excuses for Arab regimes to oppress their own people.
The Left must recognize that Islamic fascism is the central problem faced by the world today—from Bali to Canada to the Middle East. And Iran is now the central player.
Want to stop Iran's nuclear program? CUT THE PRICE OF OIL NOW. A $20 drop in a barrel of oil will force Ahamdenejad to his knees. He's hasn't been building up infrastructure. He's been buying off the poor with petro dollars and suppessing dissent. Cut his money pot and he's gone before he could ever build a bomb.
This means:
Institute a national energy retrofit program for every building in the US. Solar panels on every house and business throughout the West.
Invest in the Big 3 car manufacturers to build hybrids—but over see the development like the government does with bankrupt school district bail outs.
Invest in alternative technologies. Invest in alternative technologies....
And provide aid to Morocco and Jordan to help create more stable regions within the Arab world. Education and hope are the keys to quelling fanaticism—except in the White House. Elect Democrats in November and 2007 will be the Chinese Year of the Investigations. The corruption and criminality of this government will be exposed and held accountable and we'll all go to heaven in a little row boat—except for the religious fanatics who will be Left Behind.
August 10, 2006 12:35 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It is the occupation stupid, Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon, syria, etc. etc. etc.
August 10, 2006 12:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
LETS JUST HOPE ISRAEL BEATS UP HEZBOLLAH IN A TERRIBLE WAY. MAYBE THAT WILL ESCALTE INTO THE WAR THAT IS NEEDED, FOR THE USA TO DESTROY THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT.
August 9, 2006 11:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO MIKE B, I LIKE YOUR POSTS AND AGREE WITH YOU ON SOME POINTS. IF THE MUSLIMS WERE SMART THEY THEMSELVES WOULD GO AFTER THEIR LEADERS AND HEROS LIKE BIN LADEN. BUT FOR SOME REASON ARAB MUSLIMS ARE ALL BRAINWASHED BY THEIR FALSE RELIGION. HOWEVER I DISAGREE WITH THE IRAQ PART. HUSSEIN WAS AN ENEMY OF AMERICA, HAD USED (YES EVERYONE) USED WMDS IN THE PAST. HE PAID PALESTINIAN SUIDIDE TERRORISTS. HE MOVED THE WMDS HE HAD IN 2003 TO SYRIA (THAT WILL EVENTUALLY COME OUT). THE QUESTION, IN MY VIEW, IS NOT SHOULD WE HAVE GONE INTO IRAQ AND SHOULD WE GET OUT NOW. THE QUESTION WAS, WHO WAS FIRST, IRAQ OR IRAN (OR SYRIA EVEN). THERE WILL NOT BE A WITHDRAWAL OF ANY KIND IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THERE WILL BE A TROOP SHIFT MOST LIKELY TO IRAN. IRANS LEADERS WORDS ARE AMOST GUARANTEEING THAT.
August 9, 2006 11:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to: Daniel.
Get a GRIP. "War crimes". Israel. How in HELL does one commit war crimes repelling rocket assaults. Get back in your straight jacket and a double doese of lithium. Or, Viagra. Clearly, you have not seen combat. COWARD.
August 9, 2006 10:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I wish more people here would put aside for a moment who is to blame in the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and simply consider the situation from the perspective of the future of war. On one side we have not only a well functioning democracy with a tremendous army but a sophisticated citizenry. On the other side we have an extraordinarily inventive phenomenon for bringing down the previous. Israel is being placed in the position of having to commit war crimes to assure her survival. The method of the enemy is such that the population of a sophisticated nation must make an agonizing decision. It either commits war crimes to survive or goes down in defeat. The method of the enemy is such that it is assured of success unless it is countered by wholesale slaughter—and this wholesale slaughter is not easily covered over for a multitude of reasons: the intellectual sophistication of Israel—the morality of democracy generally—not to mention the tactics of the enemy (guerrilla warfare, terrorism, etc.). If this is the picture of the future of war, what we have are societies riven with suspicion, forced to accept the loss of many innocents for the sake of clearing the enemy. It quite simply is the most agonizing war condition imaginable. It cannot be easily covered up by duty, patriotism, religious belief, etc. but is a perpetually felt horror. One combats the enemy at the price of the blood of innocents on one's hands. There is no way around it. A world where all are guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around. The world is moving toward democracy, yes, but the flipside is a world of guerrilla warfare and terrorism. Of course we all put forth our suggestions to stave this off (improve economies, win hearts and minds, etc.) but it seems the technology of modern society can be twisted any which way and in support of any grievance. To the best of my estimation Israel is in a real bind and cannot win without entering the realm of being condemned for war crimes. What we have by the enemy... You continue. I have to go. The library is closing.
August 9, 2006 9:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
So....Turkey will invade a new Kurdish state. Turkey has been murdering Kurdish people for years. They have used poison gas since the 1920's and, more recently, machine guns to wipe out whole villages. Same as the Iranian's. I said DEFEND THEM. That basicly means SCREW TURKEY. If they attack Kurdistan, carpet bomb Turkey back to the Dark Ages. They are mass murders anyways and it is waaayyy past time they were delth with. I am sick and tired of these Arab monsters butchering people and, then, when they are stopped, somehow claiming they are the victims. It's stupid and it's counterproductive. Let the E.U. anti-Semites deal with Turkey. They want to let them into their ragtag old ladies tea and nagging party of a trade union. Fine!
August 9, 2006 7:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
attn: Frank
Gypt is NOT Arab. Muslim, yes, Arab, no. They are , by FAR, largest muslim country in ME. They are hopelessly not self-sustaining. The US buys them off, via $3 Bil./year, in an attmpt to achieve "stability, or, what passes for stability. Call the a counterweight to the more extreme nutcases. Hosni's personal bodyguards are all US Delta, his Egyptian brethren would have gifted him 72 virgins, long ago. Without US wheat, practically on the cuff, they wouldn't have bread. They have no oil, they produce nothing, people in Cairo, literally, pee in the street. Wherever you go you need to pak your own toilet paper, or, the Egyptian way, do without. Individually, most people are delightful. Get them started on "politics" and they spout the vile garbage of the controlled press. God help us when that place blows its cork. That $3 Billion is our cork. One more time. The US, perfectly, or, imperfectly, like every sovereign nation, acts SOLELY in its own national interest. The current thinking, especially after 9/11, is that Israel is a VITAL US strategic asset. Yes, the US "encouraged" Egypt to recognize Israel, but, Sadat had other options (Russia). In other words, Sadat viewed the recognition of Israel in the best Egyptian interest. That stuff that Israel is The USs obedient poodle is the Islamo line: the Islamo know better, so what's the point in mindlessly recycling their rationalizations!? Suppose, Israel also acts in THEIR best national interest, how do the Islamos expain away having their glutes handed to them by a nation state that has half the population of the city of Cairo! All these ignorant posters who get their knickers in a knot regarding "ethics", "religion", "morality" have never taken a single PoliSci course; or, they'd know that a nation , only has INTERESTS.
August 9, 2006 7:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
MikeB. Funny you mention Kurdistan. It was reported that Shiites are talking openly now about partitioning Iraq in three. Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. The problem is that the Sunnis don't have any oil wich will force their hand to fight for it. The Kurds have their own issues. If an independent state of Kurdistan is created chances are that Turkey will invade them. So I really don't know how that will work.
August 9, 2006 7:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Marina asked: "do you have any doubt that what Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad want is complete destruction of Israel?"
IMHO this is nothing but the old "one state" or "two states" game. And my proposition would be: lets start with a some sort of "two step process".
Lets start (a) with two states, in the exact borders of 67, everybody should be able to agree on that.
One state is not possible today, (b) maybe some later day, when both sides have learned to live together, to share ressources, universities, workers etc. Israel has so much to offer.
There are things that cannot be just ordered, that will develop or not. Iran etc will know that as well. They just should not have to agree that the two state solution is the perfect solution forever.
Not to mention that something like the EU could start in that region, that would make everything look different anyway.
August 9, 2006 6:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Frank, it doesn't require much money to pull back our troops to the Kurdish area, drive every Arab and non-Kurd encountered out, declare and recognize Kurdistan, and otherwise get heck out of there. Let the Iraqi kill each other. It's actually in our nations interst for these whack jobs to kill each other. The sooner the recognize that they have been sold a bill of good by the devils that are their hero's and leaders and kill THEM, the sooner they can set about establishing an infrastrucure that will allow them to raise their children in peace. If they choose not to do this, then let them die until the bodies pile up and they choke on the flies. Just leave of out of their hare brained religion and tribal squabbles.
August 9, 2006 6:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
MikeB. I agree with you. We should not be in Iraq. But we are. Our boys and girls are there. Until they come home, we owe it to them to provide the best equipment we can. We are having money problems. At least that is what the Pentagon is saying. The troops on the field want more armor and they have not been able to provide them, they cannot fix broken equipment for lack of funds. If we are willing to cut other programs to finance the war, then we should have the clarity of mind to cut financial aid to countries that in reallity don't need it.
August 9, 2006 6:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
By the way Mr. McConnel, your response lacks historical context. At the time of the accord Israel had already won the war, but no arab country recognized Israel as a State. The accord called for recognision of the state of Israel by Egypt. This was believed at the time to be an important step for the security of Israel and the stability of the region. And even if you don't like it, we paid for it, we still paying. I really don't understand why you argue somehting that is a fact.
August 9, 2006 6:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Frank, you haven't looked at my posts. I don't think we have any reason whatsoever to be in Iraq other than the guarrantee the independence of the Kurdish people in the North. We need to stop messing around in the Arab world. Let the Kurd's declare an independent Kurdistan, run the recent Arab infiltrators from Turkey, Iran, and Al Sadr's private army out (with the help of the Kurd's), and hep them defend themselves. Other than Israel, we have no friends there and no reason to be there. We CAN be independent of Arab oil in a very short period of time and it is way past time we did that. Draw a line in the sand and keep them behind it. Aab culture and religion have nothing to offer us by heartbreak and duplicitous dealings. Get out! Now!!
August 9, 2006 6:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
So tell me Mr McConnel, where is the pragmatism in giving Egypt so much money? What is the reason? You just said that we don't do anything for free. Can it be that part of the accord was the financiial aid package? Wow, what a concept. I guess your priest will be surprised abou how poorly you make your case lot of noise but little substance.
August 9, 2006 6:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Millersville, Maryland.
Sometimes I wish it would be as simple as being an all out war in the Middle East; with clear lines drawn to indicate who was with whom and fighting for what. Then it would have a start and a finish.
BUT - The main problem here is that the opposing Arab nations know that they cannot fight a traditional all out war with Isreal (and "friends" so to speak) because they will lose. They have tried before and lost.
So the new war of the 21st century is one faught hiding behind civilians; utilizing the media and politics. The is the very reason why groups like Al Queda, Hezbollah, etc exists. This is why the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan persists.
The ultimate key to all this is openess to diversity via education, and economic stability. If we have to be crippled first before we realize that this is the solution - then I'd say that we are on the right track in the Middle East. It has to get worse before it gets better?
http://truth-sentinel.blogspot.com/
August 9, 2006 6:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Frank! My priest won't believe the way you are turning me into an Israeli! Frank, you are sick! "Protecting Israel from Egypt?" There is a famous Life magazine photo, Frank. It shows nearly 20,000 Egyptian bodies rotting in the desert. In '73, Nixon/Kissinger FORCED Sharon to relaese his death-hold on the 3rd Egyptian army. Get a JOB. Get a Girlfriend. Stop that "ugly American" stuff. You don't have a CLUE. Not a CLUE. Neither does your imagination allow for what would happen if Israel REALLY were to take off the gloves. I DO. You also have NO idea of the pragmatism of US policy. We, the US, don't "adopt" countries, we don't do "favors", we, like every nation, identify OUR intersts, and we act on them: let that penetrate your scull. The Arab press shows DR. Rice as a monkey. Believe me, that lady is no monkey; she can chew 'em up & spit 'em out, anytime she so choses.
August 9, 2006 6:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
MikeB. I frankly think you are confused. I'm not advocating for any arab organization. I'm saying only that Israel doesn' need our resources to stand on her own. I'm saying we have serious problems financing the Iraq war and billions of dollars in money and equipment will go a long way to better equip our troops that are exposed in the region. I'm saying that the United State goverment should stop bailing out Israel every time they feel the itch. Our policies should be pro-active towars our interests and not re-active to Israel actions. There is a fact that no one here want to address, and that is that we, the last super power on earth, have no control over the situation. Why do you think that is?
August 9, 2006 6:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Frank - Since words and insults actually mean something coming from the mouths of people other than complete twits, let's look at some imagry from the Muslem world. Though the Western media (and, I note, the Washington Post) chooses to call the Iranian provided long range rocket used by Hizbolla the Shahab, it's name in the Muslem world is the HUNAIN. Now, the Battle of Hunain is famous, or infamous, depending upon your point of view, throughoput the Middle East. In his "messing about" in Medina, attempting to formulate and found Islam, one of Muhammid's hencemen murdered someone. It was the custom there to pay blood money for murder and Muhammid and his followers were broke. So they borrowed money from one of them, actually a Jew that had hidden Muhammid and his followers. Rather than repay that debt, Muhammid had a convenient "vision" that he was to expell the Jews from Medina. Later, when he seized power, he acted upon that "vision". The Jews, however, retreated to a fortified area of the city and resisted. After being overwhelmed, the Jews - numbering in the thousands - had their land, their homes and businesses stole. And, Muhammid had another convenient "vision" whereby "temporary marriage" was allowed. So the Muslem men raped the Jewish women, they murderd all of the men and male children over the age of 5, and sold the women into slavery. THAT is what Hizbolla, Hamas, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran have in store for Israel! That is the image Arabic television is showing to the Arab street. That us the sort of hatred being generated. This isn't some tiny little diagreement over land or prisoners. It is an all out war of annihilation, total devistation, the murder of a whole people and dismantling of an entire country and history. If Hizbolla suceeds in this, the next target of fundimentalist Islam *will* be you.
August 9, 2006 6:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to: Millersville, Maryland
I identify my German roots because we "good" Germans were just as scummy as the Swedes. We Germans caused our own past deaths, just as the Lebanese are doing now. Your "sneeze" expression reveals how you Swedes have always been hypocritical regarding Jewish lives. The Israelis have bombed & killed in Hitzbollah neighborhoods. GUESS who is likely to be found in Hitzbollah neighborhoods. You sanctimonous Swedish hypocrite. You don't "like" the killing? Really? Have your smug, leftist, cowardly government find some REAL soldiers, put them in harms way, YOU root out the Hitzbollah. That is the ONLY way that ylou can prove that you don't like the killing.
August 9, 2006 6:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To: Edward who continually reminds us he's German.
I'm Swedish. We don't much like the thought of anyone killing anybody. I hate the thought of the Jews killing the Arabs as much as I do the Arabs killing the Jews. To me it's just people killing other people. The planet has a long and sorted history of this happening.
However, to think either side is more right or wrong is a moot point. The Arabs hate the Jews, they don't want them on what they consider is their land and they don't like anyone who supports Israel. The Israels know this. They know they are out numbered a couple of hundred to one by the Arabs and it scares the hell out of them. They are well aware their only chance of survival is through a strong and efficient military and alliances with the United States and European allies. Over the past 50 years anytime an Arab has sneezed at Israel they have been subjected to getting hit over the head with a baseball bat. Currently, Israel is beating the hell out of the Arabs yet again for swiping a couple of soldiers. One responder to this post stated over 1,000 Lebanese have died so far and I won't quibble with her statement. About 50 Israelis have died last I knew. Sounds about right.
Inevitably, Israel and the Muslim States will engage in an all out war. Nothing anyone can envision today will stop this conflict. As Edward stated earlier there will be no winners. Just a whole lot of death and destruction and not much else.
August 9, 2006 5:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to: the Anonynmous poster questioning Israel/US techology pooling.
1) the merkava tank is the most advanced desrt warfare tank. Invented & Israeli built
2) armed, remote controlled drones, Invented & Israeli built
3) guided aircraft aimed missiles, Invented & Israeli built
4) satellite imagery, Invented & Israeli built
5) secret technolgy deployed at most major Western facilies, Invented & Israeli built
6) Anti-missile passenger airliner protection, Invented & Israeli built
7) Israel gets approx. $3 Bil. US military dollars per year, approx. what Saudi "roayals" spend on booze & hookers.
8) Electronic guidence flight helmets, Invented & Israeli built
9) Command & control aircraft. Invented & Israeli built: they just sold $2 Bil. worth to India
10) every reliable Western country purchses Israeli military technology & training.
August 9, 2006 5:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I WILL LEAVE IT AT THIS. ME BEING A CHRISTIAN FEEL A TIE TO THE JEWISH COMMUNITY (JESUS CHRIST WAS A JEW). I DON'T HATE/DISLIKE MY JEWISH BRETHREN BECAUSE THEY REJECT JESUS CHRIST AS THE MESSIAH (MY SAVIOR). AND I DON'T FEEL JEWISH DISLIKE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT JEWISH. BUT JEWISH AND CHRISTIANS ARE MOSTLY SIMILIAR; MAINLY DUE TO THE OLD TESTAMENT AND FEEL CHRISTIANS DERIVE FROM JUDIASM. CHRIST SAID LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR, BUT HAVE A HARD TIME TRUSTING MUSLIMS. I SYMPATHIZE WITH THE JEWS AND ISRAEL. THEY WON A WAR AND THEY WON THE LAND FROM THE MUSLIMS. SO IF I PLAY POKER AND LOSE 1 MILLION DOLLARS; I SHOULD BE ABLE TO RETAIN MY MONEY BECAUSE IT IS OR WAS MY HARD EARNED MONEY....I GUESS I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN STUPID ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE FIRST PLACE HUH???
August 9, 2006 5:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Mr McConnel, spare me your sophomoric insults. You put in evidence your ignorance. Remember that due to the Camp Davis Peace accords between Israel and Egypt we ended up paying Egypt for the security of Israel, we still are, we kept our word. My post has nothing to do with God, or the way Isralis worship, or the way they look, or if they are secular or not, I don't really care. My post was addressing the fact that the United States should not be expending billions of dollars in aid for a state that by your own addmission have the technology, the industrial capability, and human resources to stand on her own, specially in a time when we need the resources for our own. By the way, we share our technology with them also correct? We have trained their forces also, correct? But I guess we have to pay billions of dollars to them to receive in kind. It is not a difficult concept Mr. McConnel, shouldn't our goverment put the interests of nationalistic americans above the interests of nationalistic isrealis?
August 9, 2006 5:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to: USMC, Chula Vista
Sorry. Didn't mean to stir anything up. Asa fromer tech guy at DOD here is all I meant: Yes, ther is a robust exchange of technology. Nobody can be the best at everything. Their special forces are THE best, why beat a dead horse. The patriot missiles were a dud until their advanced algorithms straightened that mess, you know that. Our fighters do use their air-to-ground missiles, that is not a secret. Our tanks do use their advanced armor, again, that is not a secret. Their Arrow ant-balistic system is the only active ant-balistic defense in the world; we have access to thaeir technology because we helped partiallly finance their R&D. Our special forces, like theirs, use their most advanced galil assault rifles. Oh, of additional interest, 80% of airport anti-terrorist technology is Israeli. Like they say, it is a small world (we are using their advanced armed drones).
August 9, 2006 5:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO Abraham Cohen, Fort Lee, NJ, US
What do you know about the number of US lives that have been saved via direct Israeli intervention & intelligence, & technology?? NONE!!
IF YOU DO TELL ME..??? Here's a question though??? how many Lobbyist are there in the US trying to get money for Israel (What is annual amount the US gives Israel). what jets do the Israeli's have and tanks, and artillery, etc, etc...so please tell me what what tech. because Israel gets their technology from us. What satillites does Israel have??? US has Satillites capabilities, Israel does not..so intelligence, maybe so, but not from these two past wars (Afgan/Irag).
August 9, 2006 5:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This USMC, Chula Vista guy has it 100% correct. The US is a christian country founded on christian principles. I'm a Jew. I understand that, and, glad of it. Hey, imagine a Jew like me living in a Muslim place. Does a crucifix bother me? Why should it. Does a magen david bother my numerous christian buddies? They love coming to our Jewish celebrations, we go to theirs. Its only the intolerant Islamo-nut cases with their 72 virgins who have single-handedly managed to convert religious belief into porno/mayhem/murder. They'll get theirs, don't worry.
August 9, 2006 5:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
John McConnel - Welcome! I agree whole heartedly with you. The problem is that these leftist lunatics think they are liberals and keep posting back at people like me, who actually are liberals, that we are Bush wing nuts. For some ungodly reason, the American left and European liberals and left wingnuts decided to adopt Hamas and Hizbolla and their allied governments in Iran, Syria, and Lebanon like they were they "pet of the month". Now, ignoring the fact that these pornographic purveyers of fundimentalist Islam would kill these silly, self-absorbed whack jobs on sight for being homosexuals-feminists-aetheists-infidels-and-for-a-million-other-reasons, we have nothing whatsoever in common with them. These leftists appear to be completely unaware that Hizbolla and the rest of the fundimentalist Islamic world is actually claiming Spain as part of their territory stole during the European Crusades! It appears that one of the nuttier view of this variety of Islam is that they can NEVER surrender territory or people once subject to Islam. So they also claim all of Southern Italy, Greece, and a large swarth of Europe. I would almost be tempted to hand it over to these fanatics with the nowledge that those cold blooded killers would rid us of a lot of whining, judgemental, hyper-hypocritical Europeans....especially the French and Austrians. But, then, once that area was forcibly settled by their Islamic replacements, we would need to go through all of the trouble of getting rod of them.
August 9, 2006 5:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO Abraham Cohen, Fort Lee, NJ, US
Excuse me on this...but THE US MILITARY USING ISRAELI TECHNOLOGY??? REALLY!!! THAT IS NEW TO ME. SECONDLY I SERVED 10 1/2 YEARS IN MY BELOVED MARINE CORPS, AND I WE DON'T GET OUR TECHNOLOGY FROM ISRAEL. YES, WE'VE TRAINED WITH THEM AND YES THEY ARE ONE THE BEST IN THE WORLD (MILITARILY), BUT THEY DON'T COMPARE TO OUR ARMED FORCES...THE MAIN DIFFERENCE I WILL SAY IS...THE ISRAELI GOV'T DOESN'T BOG DOWN THEIR MILITARY AS THE US DOES. THE US MILITARY GET TOO MUCH B.S. FROM POLITICIANS WHO HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT IS REALLY GOING DOWN
August 9, 2006 5:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To A. U. American, Washington, D. C
I respect the mere fact that you are human, regardless of your religious background though it is none. But, I will keep to my faith (As a Chrisian)that there is a God and Christ is my Savior. That said, this Country was founded on Christianity and our fore-fathers were Christian for the most part (read history: George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc, etc). People like you have torn down our moral and values...I don't force or expect people to pray or believe what I do. You probably want every cross taken out of every building in the US as well as the words under God...You hypercrit. You're probably a tree hugger!!! Well since I am not...does that give me the right to go burn every tree down because I am not an environmentalist. Don't get me wrong, I believe in preserving our environment and protecting endangered species. Please answer these questions: is it ok with you to have the Koran in school? have classes on Hinduism, Muslim and Budism??? And yes, SEX education in elementary is ok too, right???
August 9, 2006 5:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
att: Frank Lawrenceville.
My name is actually, John McConnel, but, thought that Abraham Cohen name would perk up your anti-Semitic anntennae. Frank, you need a job. Get one. Also, get a decent girl-friend. Some serious reading & eductaion won't hurt you one bit. As for US policy. Be assured US policy is formulated to protect US interests, as it should be. The US spends as much annual $$ on Egypt. How many Israeli boots are on the ground in furtherance of US interests, versus Egyptian boots? I can tell that yu have not seen fit to serve in the US military. Can you imagine GIs, who are using Israeli technology, training (yes, training in Israel, by Israelis) taking your absurd stance?! What do you know about the number of US lives that have been saved via direct Israeli intervention & intelligence, & technology? Frank, stop embarrassing our country and babbling Hitz-speak. Forget religion. Clearly, you know nothing of Israeli society: they don't invoke God, they are super secular, you couldn't tell them apart from Americans, they are nationalistic, ie. they won't be messed with. I did two tours of duty in Israel. My kids didn't notice 1% difference between Israel & New Jersey. Frank, you gotta get out more.
August 9, 2006 4:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Frank - "...This is not my definition Mike, is our own govermnent definition of Moderate Arab goverments..." I take it you mean the Bush White House, which is definitely NOT my government. These incompetent windbags and nutcases is why we have come to this point to begin with. I don't belive for one minute that a President Kerry or Gore would have gotten us into Iraq, mired us in Afghanistan, not captured Bin Laudiin, alienated the entire world, so over-extended our military and budget, and hamstrung this country that we couldn't react if our lives depended upon it. The problem is, our lives DO depend upon it, and we are screwed.....
August 9, 2006 4:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To Jonas, Stockholm, of Sweden,
Do you really believe these radical Muslim groups are interested in negotiating. they are only interested in: No Israel, exterminating Jews and, Death to America. Israel must be permitted to exist. You say Israel needs to reevaluate its' tactics and strategies!! Understand that it is inflicting excessive carnage!! And that it is below the dignity of a democracy. And oh yes that it blatanly using excessive force...with little regard to innocent victims in the process. I don't hear you condeming Hezbollah for storing arms and using rockets where they can use humans as human shields....why not!!! Hezbollah knows what they are doing...they are sending innocent people to their death to accomplish their means.
August 9, 2006 4:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
MikeB. Ok, would you prefer the Bin Laden family instead of the Saud family in Saudi Arabia? Or would you prefer the old Nasser regime in Egypt? Perhaps will be better to have the sunni religous sect in charge
of Jordan? This is not my definition Mike, is our own govermnent definition of Moderate Arab goverments.
August 9, 2006 4:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to: Mary, Washington DC.
Mary, the Israelis are not "justifying" anything. They do not owe an explanation. They are flushing a UN-clogged toilet. Dan, from Cleveland, seems to grasp it.
August 9, 2006 4:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Moderate Arab governments? Please be so kind as to name one? Right now, in an Arab League Meeting, all of those "moderate" Arab governments are sending more money and support to Hizbolla swine. That isn't moderate! And, echoing them is (ir)rational thinker, who writes, being indicative of the neoNazi's rampant the African Amercian community these days, "the world problems and all wars are the fault of the Jews". God, how silly and stupdid and ignorant and morally bankrupt and despicable. If I could be granted one wish, it would be to send this deluded snot off to serve with his Hizbolla brothers. After they slit his throat for being black AND Amercian, we could ponder why he was to insane as to beieve that the cause of anti-Semitism and evil had anything to offer him or anyone faintly resembling human. Hizbolla and Hamas are composed of mad dogs, whack jobs, and cold blooded killers, who worship evil. They pull on the mantle of Islam to justify their religion of death and fear, but they they do not worship the God Muhammad spoke of.
August 9, 2006 4:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I read many of your comments and agree and strongly disagree with some of you. Let me start off by saying, "terrorists have no rules of engagement and could cares less of human live" (look at: suicide bombers). Hence look up the definition of terrorism and what is the common denominator with that word...muslims (Al Queda, Hamas and Hezbolla are examples)! Hamas and Hezbolla launch rockets from within civilian communities: houses, apartments, schools, hospitals, and mosques (true fact)into Israel. Israel, in turn ends up killing civilians, wrecking homes and hospitals, and mosques (due to terrorist using individuals as human shields)in retaliation. The U.S. has witnessed the exact same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Arabs/Muslimes use the results (death and destruction) to portray themselves as the victims. As for Hezbolla I do recall their cowardiness by murdering 240+Marines who were there as a peace force for the UN, along with other countries. Israel is doing what we should've done a long time ago to Hezbolla in retaliation.
August 9, 2006 4:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Excessive civilan deaths. "Excessive" is code for "non-Jewish". HaHaHa. The Hitzbollah masquarade as civilians, hide amongst them. Nobody worries about Jewish deaths: Jews are expendable. Oh, that terrible war: if the Islamos were winning it would turn into a "good" one. Moral high ground? You morons! When someone poses an existential threat, a sane person doesn't worry about moral high ground, they concentrate on taking them OUT: that's as "moral" as it gets. You messed with the Jews, now, the "God" of the Old Testament is telling them to turn the other cheek; the Islamo cheek.
August 9, 2006 4:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I see this as Israel following America's lead - if we can go and attack foreign countries because we're on some hunt for illusive international terrorists, why can't Israel? They're simply going with the precedent we've set. We can't condemn a country that we have adopted and nurtured when it copies our actions, even in raining down bombs on innocent towns for the possible "terrorist cell" it might contain. Afghanistan, anyone? In the 70s/80s the U.S.S.R. bombed it "back to the Stone Age", and we helped do it again a few years ago. And then we set our sights on Iraq.
In no way do I advocate what Israel is doing, but I can understand why and how they're justifying it. That said, I must state that I concur with Frank in Lawrenceville - we must cease funding Israel. If they had to finance their own wars, they'd be a little more frugal. Further, their fabulous industry and earnestness to work with what they have ought to positively influence their neighbors. Unfortunately, such an intense military build-up on their side only spurs fear and even more jealousy on the other side of the border. Israel sticks out like a sore thumb - and is an easy target for manipulative mullahs wishing to distract their poor uneducated people from their everyday misery. It's easier to fight an enemy than to change yourself.
And truly, how long must we reference the Holocaust? Do we still owe 40 acres and reparations for indignities that southerners caused to their black slaves/neighbors, even if a good percentage of current Americans' families hadn't even arrived in the U.S. by 1860? By all means, teach it, emphasize it, but do not presume to tell me that it will happen to the same people again. It won't. But it has happened to others - look at the Hutu/Tutsi conflicts in Rwanda. Look at the former Yugoslavia, and what happened in the Killing Fields.
I agree with our Indian correspondents - why should only Muslim extremists be singled out? Christian extremists have threatened our government for years, be it David Koresh or Pat Robertson (with his helpful calls for the assassination of foreign leaders). There are rifle-wielding Mormon cults out west who abuse child-wives and terrorize their own young men, and large "Christian" lobbies who raise exorbitant amounts of money to shanghai our federal legislature into addressing "moral" questions and not settling actual social or international problems. I'd like to reference my favorite New Testament phrase, that of "removing the timber from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your brother's eye".
August 9, 2006 4:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments