What does the crisis feel like on the ground and, from where you sit, what looks like the right way to defuse it?
Posted by David Ignatius on July 13, 2006 1:00 AM
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (191)
DR.C.SEVINCHAN :
There ıs no doubt that the secularısm does not allow to be have and lıve fully the relıgıous and faıth rıghts.So the secularısm ıs just the
enemy of radıcal muslıms and judaist.HIZBULLAH
kılled many ınnocent people ın turkey.Many people have been tortured atrcıously.
The goal of radıcal islam ıs to get the sharıal
(code of ıslam) admnistratıon step by step or
by armed strugle.
It's a good example ın Turkey the sharıah laws
comıng step by step.To create a headscarf poroblem wıthout a respıte and confront to se-
secular law ıs a typıcal example.
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When reading this thread, it's very apparent who the racists really are and where the hatred really lies. It's unfortunate that our great country is being led down such a disastrous path at the expense of a handful of overzealous religious fanatics.
As long as Isreal is our friend, the Mideast crises will never end. With peace in the Middle East,Israel will never be able to get billions of our tax dollars (mostly middle class)in foriegn aid or so called security money! Who are we kidding, Iran is next! before Bush leaves the office, more money for security....
ET-you must be an enlightened one.When family members were killed by the jackson indian act,was jackson an enlightened one.When lois riel fought against being put on reserves, by the enlightened one,he was sent to the gallows.So describe who are the enlightened ones,you know the western smart people you mention.
Its a good thing that most of the western leaders are smarter than the people responsible for the nonsense in this blog. The bottom line is this - you choose your friends by common values and your enemies by those who threaten them. Do you see yourself sharing values with extremist, imperial Iran and their cronies or with a democracy that is intent on PROTECTING its own citizens by any cost (I'm sure any of you would expect this of your own government)? If you chose the former I suggest that you forfeit your citizenship as part of one of the enlightened nations and find yourself a nice cave to live in somewhere in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria or Southern Lebanon and stop abusing the system that has allowed you the freedom to spread your irrational lies and propaganda!
Zionism is proving to be as ruthless as islamic fighters when threatened.There is no high road,they both are religous fanatics with there many followers ready to kill in the name of there God.Zionism is not some peacefull country tea club,it is a radical group who think that they are the light to the world.They will stop at nothing to achieve there goals of a greater Israel.They will bring the world to war if necasary.This is a dangerous ideology they share.They have spoken of useing the bomb if zionism is threatened.So what is so peacefull about a people who will stop at nothing to serve there ideology.
Goran: please read Norman Finklestein's books regarding Israel. Your state continually tries to steal land from the Arabs for your greater Israel, just as another nation in the 40s called for more living space. How does it feel to live in the only democracy in the world that practices and condones torture?
I am really disturbed by the recent fighting in the Middle East and our lack of a proper response to Israel's excessive force and lack of regard for innocent populations. I have cousins, uncles, aunts, and other relatives who live in Jerusalem, Safed, and elsewhere in Israel so I have some understanding of their concerns. However, the magnitude of the Israeli response and its huge destructive force against power plants and vital infrastructure not to mention the growing number of civilians killed and wounded is unacceptable. Meanwhile, while nearly all other countries express their opinions that the level of Israeli response is inappropriate, we do not do so. Using weapons and technology supplied by the US, we are complicit in what is happening. Israel must defend itself but what is happening is far more than a reasonable defense. Just when you think our standing in the world couldn't go much lower, a new event occurs to disconfirm that belief. Our "go it alone" model that says anything is acceptable as long as you say it's for self-defense is being emulated by Israel and will be the destructive model for other nations to follow for years to come making our future increasingly unsafe. If we expect others around the world to show some courage in moving toward democracy, then our congress should show some courage in speaking out and doing something against what has happened to our foreign policy.
Israel has portrayed itself as the victim for to long, ownership of modern weapons technology does not make aggression legitimate Israels enemies do not possess Helicopter gunships, modern tanks, mechanised infantry, neither do they operate modern air and naval forces. Israel is using its substantial military power against ill equipped peoples defending there homeland the Palestinians and Lebonese people are being described as terrorists simply because they lack the technological advantage of modern weapons The Jews crave control be it in business the media or regarding there local geography Bush is making a huge mistake if he backs Israel why because he will be on the wrong side he has an oppurtunity here to send out a very powerfull message to the Arab world that we do not consider them all to be enemies yes terrorism in all its forms is wrong it is the definition of the word which needs to be carefully evaluated powerful armies do not legitimise fatal aggression. The sooner the world stands up to Israel the better they are the cause of all the unrest between East and West they have infiltrated the very heart of American and European governments and business the whole Jewish agenda is becoming apparent to all they are quite simply bullies. Do not use this conflict as an excuse George this is your chance to resolve the differences between East and West take advantage of it. Israel is the problem the murder of so many unarmed civilian women and children in Lebanon smacks of hypocrisy murder is murder.
Israel has portrayed itself as the victim for to long, ownership of modern weapons technology does not make aggression legitimate Israels enemies do not possess Helicopter gunships, modern tanks, mechanised infantry, neither do they operate modern air and naval forces. Israel is using its substantial military power against ill equipped peoples defending there homeland the Palestinians and Lebonese people are being described as terrorists simply because they lack the technological advantage of modern weapons The Jews crave control be it in business the media or regarding there local geography Bush is making a huge mistake if he backs Israel why because he will be on the wrong side he has an oppurtunity here to send out a very powerfull message to the Arab world that we do not consider them all to be enemies yes terrorism in all its forms is wrong it is the definition of the word which needs to be carefully evaluated powerful armies do not legitimise fatal aggression. The sooner the world stands up to Israel the better they are the cause of all the unrest between East and West they have infiltrated the very heart of American and European governments and business the whole Jewish agenda is becoming apparent to all they are quite simply bullies. Do not use this conflict as an excuse George this is your chance to resolve the differences between East and West take advantage of it. Israel is the problem the murder of so many unarmed civilian women and children in Lebanon smacks of hypocrisy murder is murder.
There are double standards demonstrated in this latest Middle East crisis, certainly but they again favour Israel. The question about what would any country do if its soldiers were kidnapped and then rockets rained on their land implies that Israel has been sitting on its hands since its withdrawal from Gaza. Any honest observer would know that has not been the case. Why is the world not outraged and demanding to know why children having a picnic on a Gaza beach were slaughtered? Or shot in the head while sitting in their classrooms? Why are we applying different standards and different value to Palestinian lives? Since the beginning of this latest conflict in 2000, the loss of Palestinian lives has been triple that of Israelis and MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN CHILDREN. So forgive me if the Israeli victim stance is wearing thin for me. My disillusionment began when I saw soldiers firing live ammunition at boys throwing rocks. And remember that the Arabs have also been in the Middle East always, generally living peacefully beside their Israeli neighbours in more decent times.
i do think that the mutual escalation in the mideast will lead to much risky complications, that will affect all concerned parties in the arab-israeli conflict, including the united states.
i do suggest that israel releases the lebanese pow's in return of the two kidnapped soldiers, withdraws from the disputed chebhaa farms, and let syria and lebanon solve this out.
on the other side the lebanese government is invited to execute the Security council resolution 1559, which includes the disarments of all the militias, and depploy the lebanese army on the border with israel.
but it is highly important that israel stops its fierce bombardments to the lebanese infrastructure -should we say what was left- and put an end to this collective punishment to the lebanese people.
i do think it is vital to have a look on the casualties at the lebanes side, more than 200 civilians were killed.
does this toll justifies israel's case?
thank you
Eil Y. Al Andary
email: eilandary@mbc.ae
J.David-I remember as a kid someone twisting my arm untill i said uncle.Today in the middle east we make every muslim say Israel.And if they dont they are terrorists.I dont know what a legitamate responce to an occupation is.But do you think for a minute that bush will put his foot down on a greater Israel.It has not happened yet, so the war goes on.
J.David-I remember as a kid someone twisting my arm untill i said uncle.Today in the middle east we make every muslim say Israel.And if they dont they are terrorists.I dont know what a legitamate responce to an occupation is.But do you think for a minute that bush will put his foot down on a greater Israel.It has not happened yet, so the war goes on.
To JLZ. I am loath to respond to someone who resorts to insults as it usually indicates that the individual does not have the ability to offer a reasonable response. But in your case I will, as I did not elaborate on why I feel the U.S. is a declining Superpower. I note you did not disagree with me that Israel could not exist without the U.S. support. I hope I do not have to elaborate on that.
But first, apart from agreeing with me that the Israeli settlers on the West Bank are a problem and pointing out other enemies of Israel, you neglected to answer my question - if Israel only wants to be a free an independent state WHY ARE THERE OVER 200,000 Israelis in the West Bank placed there with the Israeli government support?
On the U.S. a declining Superpower? When I was a child at school the teachers would point out how the sun never set on the British Empire; fifteen years later after the Second World War, it was gone. (Kind of dates me doesn't it?) The mighty U.S.S.R Empire has disappeared since too. There are many indications of this happening to the U.S., I will just give a current one. Bush is condemning Iran and Syria for the present crisis in the Middle East. Where are the bulk of U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force? Slap bang between these two countries in Iraq. To quote an American panelist Goldberg a few minutes ago on BBC London Report,"with 150,000 troops helpless" so much for being the world's only Super- power. Of course they could strike by air - if you think oil prices are high now!!
As for my hoping for the decline of the U.S. as a world power, far from it. As much as I detest Bush and his administration for causing much of the problems we have in the Middle East with its unbalanced and hypocritical pro Israel position, I am not happy this is happening to the U.S., considering who might replace them.
Thanks Mario for the David Ben Gurion quote. 2000 years of persecution at the hands of the Europeans has created a very particular populous. The Moslem world is not particularly aware of the 2000 years of fear. But as your quote says, the Jewish people, ordinarily bestowed with great intellect, should understand that it isn't the Moslem world's place to be so devoutedly aware of crimes they never committed. Still I make an effort to enlighten my friends. Perhaps the Jewish people should do the same. That it would be impossible for 2000 years of insecuritey to disappear in 58 years. Let's study it, and channel it appropriately. Otherwise channeling it onto the Arab nations, by virtue of wrong analysis, would never yield a sustainable state of sanity. Peace onto all.
I have NEVER understood why we are so involved with Israel, anyway. The professor's essay recycles the concept that there is a strong pro-Israel lobby that apparently has been going on for 40 years or more.
It's confusing, because I think there are far more Jewish people in America than Israel and not all of them are or were pro-Israel. Einstein refused the presidency of Israel when it was created.
Isaac Asimov the famous science fiction writer and an intelligent man, was depressed when his friends were cheering the formation of Israel as a nation-state. When asked why, he said "We have established an ghetto in the midst of neighbors that hate us and Israeel will be embattled as long as it lasts." He wrote that he was sorry to be proven right so far.
People who have followed Israelian history a little more closely than I have, tell me that half of the problem in setting up Israel was that the British had pretty much butchered the job of governing Palestine and the hand-over, lack of compensation, displacement policies, etc. pretty much set up Israel for long-term problems.
It's been over 40 years and the suffering in the desert isn't over. Reading something about Judaism— a more interesting subject to me than Israel politics— I have learned that due to persecution, many Jews were used to having to obey rabbical directives without question for the sake of their safety. Anybody who married outside of Judaism or converted, just had to be cut off from the society for its own safety to prevent "leaks".
That is, every jewish community would have had a central authority. Part of the difficulty with the Palestinans is that they never had this history of oppression and they simply don't pull together and obey central authority for their own safety. You see this kind of failed thinking again and again so much in those conflicts you truly wonder if, perhaps, the Israelis need to be free another 40 years in the desert and begin to put aside their defensive thinking before they can begin to rule a country.
Obviously, putting a persecuted group straight into such a situation that would challenge the leaders of any nation was not smart. And yes, one should never be surprised when people do unto others what others in the past have done unto them. Nobody was nice to them when they were just trying to live their lives, why should they be nice to people trying to kill them?
It takes deep perspective to make friends of enemies. Many civilians on both sides have it, but not the overall leadership by any means. I have never heard the word "amnesty" used once in my reading about Israel politics.
And for those who are snarky about Jewish religion vs Christianity— Jesus was rejected as the Messiah because he did not fit what was expected from hearing the prophecies— a kind of strong man, an EARTHLY king, to drive out the Romans and reunite Israel.
A little study of Judaism and the Talmud and Torah does make this "sorry, but no thanks" attitude understandable. Don't have to agree with it, but Jews are not looking to convert anybody.
David Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, the president of the World Jewish Congress:
If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
TO ALL ISRAEL SUPPORTERS: ANSWER BEN GURION'S QUESTION.
PS: The arab states did accept that it's Israel that is never satisfied.Please note that Israel occupation predate the creation of Hamas,AL-Qaeda or others, and that ALL of the Arab states and the PLO are secular and anti islamists to boost.
In it's efforts to curb the influence of the PLO(80's), Israel conducted massive arrests against PLO members in the territories, while ignored the emerging Hamas, because it was a mortal ennemy to Fatah.I'm sure the politicians at the time thought they were pretty smart.
Any way, to all of you out there wanting more war and destruction, be careful what you wish for, it might come true.
STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION:BOMB MEXICO AND CALL IT A MEASURED RESPONSE.
From where I sit, I see a world that has taken a back seat and turned a blind eye on Israel and it's policies. Israel has consistantly ignored the Geneva conventions. It has been guilty of using collective punishment against a civilian population, when it has destroyed whole innocent neighborhoods in retaliation and vengence.It has destroyed power plants and water works that are necessary for the health and safety of whole populations. It has destroyed the homes of innocent relatives of suspected terrorists. It has targeted civilian populations with indiscriminate bombing. But Israel's and the worlds most abhorrent sin is that it sins against God when it puts the value of one Isralie dead child as equal to 100 dead Islamic children.
Cyrus, I don't need your prayers, thanks anyway, save them for all the children caught in the middle who will lose their lives simply because Islamic radicals cannot live peacefully with anyone. THEY, through their hatred of Jews, have brought death and destruction to their children, and they do not care....or they would not have started it, or by their present actions, continue it. A pathetic race.
Bush does not call for a truce in the mideast and thereby endorses the continue killing of innocent women and children on both sides. Is he a Christian?
Save your juvenile, baseless, anti-American, Michael Moore, Clinton era, failed appeasement, tail-between-your-legs, worthlesss comments for your back yard, tea sipping, crumpet crunching, discourses with your loser clone friends (e.g., french grovelers who line the streets of Paris with trees so the Germans can march in the shade.) Really, do you think that attacking the President with your mindless rhetoric makes it real.....Meet Santa and the Easter Bunny you embarassing excuse for an adult.
For those of you who have not figured it out....the current administration has a middle east policy. We do not speak to, or negotiate with terrorists that kill innocent people, chopping off their heads, attacking them at work, in the store, waiting for a school bus. There are no negotiations until they denounce their current views and tactics and agree to "get along" with the rest of the humans on this planet that have just as much right to live as they do. The current policy is to destroy all terrorist organizations, we are in a war, get it, democrats you may as well stop crying and join the fight. Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton....all dealt as middle-men. We appeased the ridiculous right of Arabs to attack Jews. We negotiated. We got the same thing each and every time for out efforts....the current administration has decided to stop putting off the inevitable, deal with the monster in the region by the same terms it seems most comfortable dealing with its enemies....i.e., how many of you can I kill before you see things my way. Guess what, Israel and the US can kill ALL of you. This is the right policy. This will work. This will not take 58 years to end in success.
The Japanese would not have surrendered to the United States if we had sat in the Pacific and lobbed rockets into Tokyo for 58 years. The Germans would not have changed their aggressive behavuour if we had merely cut them off from the rest of the world. We were right to inflict this destruction then, the Israeli's are correct in their strategy, and the United States should help them, and absolutely finish it for them if the Iranians or Syrians directly intervene.
Diplomacy works sometimes. Sometimes it does not. It is a fact of life.
It looks to me that Bush/Cheney have orchestrated this Israeli effort. The kidnapping of several Israeli soldiers was just an excuse. Bush wants to let Israel do his dirty work for him, pull his chestnuts out of the Iraq fire, and give him a new lease on life in the Middle East. Funny though, Israel failed in its unilateral disengagement from Gaza and the West Bank and so it joined with another failed nation, the US of A, to try something else.
Question for Tom (earlier post) - it all sounds plausible (as a rat) -except the
one about Mossad agents being arrested in Lebanon. That one went
right past me. Do you have any links? Documentation?
Mossad might very well be behind it - after all, they supported the
Phalangists for years, and they are certainly not above assassinations,
even of peaceful Arabs, if it serves their purpose.
First, the world has to disallow any critique of the actions of Israel to be called "Anti-semitic." The Jewish people do not have a monopoly on the term, as it is a language, applicable to varied peoples in the Middle East and Africa - Arabs, Ethiopians, Palestinians - as well as Jews. I could accused Israel's treatment of the Palestians as "Anti-semitic," but what is needed is a balanced, humane, and historical analysis of this on-going crisis, where blame and blood should be placed squarely in the hands of a guilt-ridden Europe. Does anyone know that land in Africa was initially considered as a "Homeland" for the Jews? Instead, Europe, with American complicity and Arab passivity, gave Palestine to European Jewry, creating a geo-political and violent situation that could destroy the world.
I found the article by the academic dean of Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University and another professor in Chicago University to be very insightful. It is disturbing. Read it, only if you have the courage to do so:
Reading through the commentary in this blog it seems that the point is being missed - the current situation is not a spontaneous response to incremental tensions in the region, this is calculated and has been prepared for since Israel's evacuation of southern Lebanon. This situation was IMMINENT because of the Iranian interest in heating up the region when needed (and the timing is better than ever from there perspective), they have been arming the Hizbullah to the teeth with almost everything in their arsenal (as was seen by the employment of the C802 missle and others). These are standard imperialist methods (the Soviets did the same in Cuba which almost brought the world to the brink of nuclear war) and cannot be tolerated!!! The Middle East will remain unstable as long as Hizbullah exists and as long as it serves the Iranian interests. Hizbullah must be neutralized and it is unimportant what tactical methods are currently employed (while keeping civilian casualties as low as possible of course).
As long as Hizbullah exists and supported by Iran the region will be unstable and be a battleground of the forces of extremist Islam vs the West (Israel being the local representative of). This has nothing to do with the Palestinian issue which is being cynically exploited as it has for the past half century to further the interests of those with delusions of grandeur with the victim usually being the Palestinian future itself.
The first thing the world has to do is disallow any critique of the actions of Israel to be called "Anti-semitic." The Jewish people do not have a monopoly on the term as it is a language, applicable to varied peoples in the Middle East and Africa - Arabs, Ethiopians, Palestinians - as well as Jews. I could certainly called the treatment of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as "Anti-semitic," but what is needed is a balanced, humane, and historical anaysis of this on-going crisis, starting with the guilt-ridden actions of Europe and America in the beginning of the 20th century. Does anyone know that land in Africa was initially considered as a "Homeland" for the Jews? Instead, Europe, with the complicity of America and passivity of Arabs in the area, gave Palestine to European Jewry, creating a geo-political and violent situation that could destroy the world.
What comes across clearly is that the U.S. is suffering from strategic overstretch. We cannot simultaneously attempt to establish democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, attempt regime change in Iran and Syria, stop Iran from developing nuclear power, meddle in the internal politics of Russia, support resistance to Russian expansionism in the old U.S.S.R., contain China, and confront N. Korea - not to mention undermine the governments of dictatorial and authoritarian allies in the Middle East which we were doing until this year.
When Syria made overtures to cooperate with the US, we rejected them entirely, leaving Assad no alternative for support save Iran. At this late hour, Bush still lectures Putin on the need to establish a democracy like Iraq.
At some point, we have to prioritize our efforts and actually give up or share control with some Allies over some of our objectives. Today, however, the hostilities we have stirred up will make this difficult. As Joe Klein just wrote, the only observable impact Bush has clearly made in the Middle East is to strengthen the position of Iran enormously.
What comes across clearly is that the U.S. is suffering from strategic overstretch. We cannot simultaneously attempt to establish democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, attempt regime change in Iran and Syria, stop Iran from developing nuclear power, meddle in the internal politics of Russia, support resistance to Russian expansionism in the old U.S.S.R., contain China, and confront N. Korea - not to mention undermine the governments of dictatorial and authoritarian allies in the Middle East which we were doing until this year.
When Syria made overtures to cooperate with the US, we rejected them entirely, leaving Assad no alternative for support save Iran. At this late hour, Bush still lectures Putin on the need to establish a democracy like Iraq.
At some point, we have to prioritize our efforts and actually give up or share control with some Allies over some of our objectives. Today, however, the hostilities we have stirred up will make this difficult. As Joe Klein just wrote, the only observable impact Bush has clearly made in the Middle East is to strengthen the position of Iran enormously.
Israel, its neighbors and the world need an exits strategy that can normalize relations in the mideast along lines that will make further conflict in the region contrary to the interests of all parties, and hence impossible. Although things are bad now, they are almost certainly going to get much, much worse in the absence of such a plan: one of the most alarming reports I can recall hearing was the interview of a few years ago with some Egyptian college students who responded, when asked "What is wrong with Israel ?" with the answer "There is nothing wrong with Israel........that three well placed 100 kiloton hydrogen bombs would not solve." And make no mistake - that is where the mideast is headed if we don't turn the current model for relations between the parties around.
Peace between the densely packed countries in this part of the middle east requires a community of interest in stability, and for each country to have compelling interests in the well being of its neighbors. There will never be peace so long as Israel's neighbors see Israel as a military power with a history of leveling their cities and industries as opposed to a willing and enthusiastic partner dedicated to regional development, trade, education and tourism.
There was a time before the initiation of the settlement movement 30-odd years ago where there was serious and constructive talk of establishing such partnerships across the middle east. But partners tend to become sceptical, and perhaps even aggrieved and alienated when they see such offers accompanied by extra-legal seizures of their land and water.
But if cooperation of this nature is what it is going to take to stabilize the mideast, we had best all get started. And "we" in this case clearly includes all the states that have contributed to the current turmoil - the countries of Europe whose policies and actions during World War II led the jews of Europe to search for a new homeland, the United Nations for authorizing the partition of Palestine without making any plans for the consequences of that action, the United States for the errors in policy which have contributed so profoundly to the current crisis, and those other countries of the mideast who have also done their best to throw fuel on the flames of hatred that have contributed to the current conflagration.
The Marshall plan, dedicated to the rebuilding of former enemy and friend alike in the devastated countries of Europe following World War II is an example of the effectiveness of such efforts in permanently terminating the historic hostilities that had riven Europe over the prior centuries. So it can be done. But it will not be cheap and it will take a commitment to diplomacy and persuasion that will be at least as challenging as finding the funds to initiate this plan.
But the cheap solutions - the suicide bombers of the dispossessed and Israel's F-16s - have now all been tried many times, and have only led to a level of destruction, distrust and hatred that will make true peace in the middle east even more difficult to attain.
It could be that Israel and its neighbors - given some breathing room and encouragement from the many parties who have interests in the stability and prosperity of this region of the world - could start this effort on their own, though they will clearly need massive financial support on the level of the Marshall plan or a substantial fraction thereof to finance what must be done. But it is equall;y likely that the parties outside the conflict, most particularly the United States, are going to have to lay out the outlines of this strategy on the table, and work with the current combatants to terminate the current hostilities and move on to more constructive objectives.
Vision is what is needed here, a vision of an economically integrated mideast parallel to Europe in which Israel has not only granted full recognition and sovereignty to its neighbors and vice-versa, but has compelling interests in their well being and prosperity. There can be no lasting peace until this end is achieved.
Israel and Western diplomats made a major miscalculation: by trying to
apply pressure on the Palestinians to force them to annul their
election of Hamas, they played directly into Hamas' hands. They
refused to pay the salaries of the Palestinian security forces, and
thereby released havoc on the inhabitants of Gaza. It is similar to
the miscalculation of Paul Bremer, who quit paying
the Iraqi army and ensured their enmity, for which the U.S.
is paying dearly today (about 9 billion dollars a month).
Israel withheld Palestinian customs payments,that is, stole the Palestinians sole source of income except for Western aid.
This act of war is the original cause of the cycle of retribution
that reached its temporary culmination today in the rocket attacks on
Haifa.
Until Israel realizes that the choice it faces is 1) a decent
life for Palestinians, or 2) the eventual dissolution of Israel and
the installation of an Islamic state in Palestine, there will be
no peace in the Middle East. The time for a political settlement may already be past, and Israel cannot exist in the long run without a political settlement with the Palestinians.
1- Harrari is killed in a car bomb.
2- Lebanese are told by the west it was done by Syrians
3- The west and Lebanese demand Syrian military leaves Lebanon, they do.
4- Lebanon, few weeks ago, arrests terrorists linked to Israel's secret service Mossad.
5- Lebanon is leveled by Israel over the abduction of 2 soldiers.
The incessant violence, the self-righteous hatred and the dismissal of the importance of the lives of people who are not "our people" on all sides in the middle east offer a sad lesson for those of us fortunate enought to not live there. This is what "faith based" society looks like- the dream of so many fervently religious people throughout the world. In the U.S., we must see this example as motivation to maintain the rule of secular laws and protection of minority rights. We must continue to struggle against the glassy eyed theocrats who would (and to some degree already have) similarly turn to policies based on violence and oppression justified by their god and tribe.
I read something the other day, can't remember the author or I would attribute it to them....summed up the current (and the past 3 thousand years for that matter) situation in the Middl
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (191)
There ıs no doubt that the secularısm does not allow to be have and lıve fully the relıgıous and faıth rıghts.So the secularısm ıs just the
enemy of radıcal muslıms and judaist.HIZBULLAH
kılled many ınnocent people ın turkey.Many people have been tortured atrcıously.
The goal of radıcal islam ıs to get the sharıal
(code of ıslam) admnistratıon step by step or
by armed strugle.
It's a good example ın Turkey the sharıah laws
comıng step by step.To create a headscarf poroblem wıthout a respıte and confront to se-
secular law ıs a typıcal example.
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January 14, 2008 7:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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January 14, 2008 7:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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December 29, 2007 12:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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December 29, 2007 12:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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December 29, 2007 11:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
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December 29, 2007 11:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
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December 29, 2007 11:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
mondarvi
December 29, 2007 11:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
When reading this thread, it's very apparent who the racists really are and where the hatred really lies. It's unfortunate that our great country is being led down such a disastrous path at the expense of a handful of overzealous religious fanatics.
November 19, 2007 1:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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olovarc
November 1, 2007 6:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
olovarc
November 1, 2007 6:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
As long as Isreal is our friend, the Mideast crises will never end. With peace in the Middle East,Israel will never be able to get billions of our tax dollars (mostly middle class)in foriegn aid or so called security money! Who are we kidding, Iran is next! before Bush leaves the office, more money for security....
January 29, 2007 5:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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January 28, 2007 1:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Please stop the Isatsli terrorists. Their one objective is expansionism. They are the worlds greatest terrorists and and must be stopped.
July 30, 2006 7:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ET-you must be an enlightened one.When family members were killed by the jackson indian act,was jackson an enlightened one.When lois riel fought against being put on reserves, by the enlightened one,he was sent to the gallows.So describe who are the enlightened ones,you know the western smart people you mention.
July 17, 2006 2:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Its a good thing that most of the western leaders are smarter than the people responsible for the nonsense in this blog. The bottom line is this - you choose your friends by common values and your enemies by those who threaten them. Do you see yourself sharing values with extremist, imperial Iran and their cronies or with a democracy that is intent on PROTECTING its own citizens by any cost (I'm sure any of you would expect this of your own government)? If you chose the former I suggest that you forfeit your citizenship as part of one of the enlightened nations and find yourself a nice cave to live in somewhere in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria or Southern Lebanon and stop abusing the system that has allowed you the freedom to spread your irrational lies and propaganda!
July 17, 2006 2:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Zionism is proving to be as ruthless as islamic fighters when threatened.There is no high road,they both are religous fanatics with there many followers ready to kill in the name of there God.Zionism is not some peacefull country tea club,it is a radical group who think that they are the light to the world.They will stop at nothing to achieve there goals of a greater Israel.They will bring the world to war if necasary.This is a dangerous ideology they share.They have spoken of useing the bomb if zionism is threatened.So what is so peacefull about a people who will stop at nothing to serve there ideology.
July 17, 2006 2:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
People are comparing India to Israels response,India is not a waring nation unlike Israel whos history books are filled with revenge and hate.
July 17, 2006 2:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It will be Golem vs. the Bear and the Dragon.
July 17, 2006 11:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Goran: please read Norman Finklestein's books regarding Israel. Your state continually tries to steal land from the Arabs for your greater Israel, just as another nation in the 40s called for more living space. How does it feel to live in the only democracy in the world that practices and condones torture?
July 17, 2006 8:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I am really disturbed by the recent fighting in the Middle East and our lack of a proper response to Israel's excessive force and lack of regard for innocent populations. I have cousins, uncles, aunts, and other relatives who live in Jerusalem, Safed, and elsewhere in Israel so I have some understanding of their concerns. However, the magnitude of the Israeli response and its huge destructive force against power plants and vital infrastructure not to mention the growing number of civilians killed and wounded is unacceptable. Meanwhile, while nearly all other countries express their opinions that the level of Israeli response is inappropriate, we do not do so. Using weapons and technology supplied by the US, we are complicit in what is happening. Israel must defend itself but what is happening is far more than a reasonable defense. Just when you think our standing in the world couldn't go much lower, a new event occurs to disconfirm that belief. Our "go it alone" model that says anything is acceptable as long as you say it's for self-defense is being emulated by Israel and will be the destructive model for other nations to follow for years to come making our future increasingly unsafe. If we expect others around the world to show some courage in moving toward democracy, then our congress should show some courage in speaking out and doing something against what has happened to our foreign policy.
July 17, 2006 7:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Wars between religions only in Skies, not on Earth !
July 17, 2006 6:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel has portrayed itself as the victim for to long, ownership of modern weapons technology does not make aggression legitimate Israels enemies do not possess Helicopter gunships, modern tanks, mechanised infantry, neither do they operate modern air and naval forces. Israel is using its substantial military power against ill equipped peoples defending there homeland the Palestinians and Lebonese people are being described as terrorists simply because they lack the technological advantage of modern weapons The Jews crave control be it in business the media or regarding there local geography Bush is making a huge mistake if he backs Israel why because he will be on the wrong side he has an oppurtunity here to send out a very powerfull message to the Arab world that we do not consider them all to be enemies yes terrorism in all its forms is wrong it is the definition of the word which needs to be carefully evaluated powerful armies do not legitimise fatal aggression. The sooner the world stands up to Israel the better they are the cause of all the unrest between East and West they have infiltrated the very heart of American and European governments and business the whole Jewish agenda is becoming apparent to all they are quite simply bullies. Do not use this conflict as an excuse George this is your chance to resolve the differences between East and West take advantage of it. Israel is the problem the murder of so many unarmed civilian women and children in Lebanon smacks of hypocrisy murder is murder.
July 17, 2006 5:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel has portrayed itself as the victim for to long, ownership of modern weapons technology does not make aggression legitimate Israels enemies do not possess Helicopter gunships, modern tanks, mechanised infantry, neither do they operate modern air and naval forces. Israel is using its substantial military power against ill equipped peoples defending there homeland the Palestinians and Lebonese people are being described as terrorists simply because they lack the technological advantage of modern weapons The Jews crave control be it in business the media or regarding there local geography Bush is making a huge mistake if he backs Israel why because he will be on the wrong side he has an oppurtunity here to send out a very powerfull message to the Arab world that we do not consider them all to be enemies yes terrorism in all its forms is wrong it is the definition of the word which needs to be carefully evaluated powerful armies do not legitimise fatal aggression. The sooner the world stands up to Israel the better they are the cause of all the unrest between East and West they have infiltrated the very heart of American and European governments and business the whole Jewish agenda is becoming apparent to all they are quite simply bullies. Do not use this conflict as an excuse George this is your chance to resolve the differences between East and West take advantage of it. Israel is the problem the murder of so many unarmed civilian women and children in Lebanon smacks of hypocrisy murder is murder.
July 17, 2006 5:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
At the begining of the conflict i wrote this as childrens play
I was wrong
This is now a Masters game of chess where one gambit is offered and accepted.
Still the game is at middle stage where kings are castled safely and queen is not moved so far.
Once the rook is positoned and knights are in action and queen makes its 1st moove then we can predict anything.
July 17, 2006 4:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
DOGWOOD here is the link you requested
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3262657,00.html
July 17, 2006 2:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
There are double standards demonstrated in this latest Middle East crisis, certainly but they again favour Israel. The question about what would any country do if its soldiers were kidnapped and then rockets rained on their land implies that Israel has been sitting on its hands since its withdrawal from Gaza. Any honest observer would know that has not been the case. Why is the world not outraged and demanding to know why children having a picnic on a Gaza beach were slaughtered? Or shot in the head while sitting in their classrooms? Why are we applying different standards and different value to Palestinian lives? Since the beginning of this latest conflict in 2000, the loss of Palestinian lives has been triple that of Israelis and MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN CHILDREN. So forgive me if the Israeli victim stance is wearing thin for me. My disillusionment began when I saw soldiers firing live ammunition at boys throwing rocks. And remember that the Arabs have also been in the Middle East always, generally living peacefully beside their Israeli neighbours in more decent times.
July 17, 2006 2:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
i do think that the mutual escalation in the mideast will lead to much risky complications, that will affect all concerned parties in the arab-israeli conflict, including the united states.
i do suggest that israel releases the lebanese pow's in return of the two kidnapped soldiers, withdraws from the disputed chebhaa farms, and let syria and lebanon solve this out.
on the other side the lebanese government is invited to execute the Security council resolution 1559, which includes the disarments of all the militias, and depploy the lebanese army on the border with israel.
but it is highly important that israel stops its fierce bombardments to the lebanese infrastructure -should we say what was left- and put an end to this collective punishment to the lebanese people.
i do think it is vital to have a look on the casualties at the lebanes side, more than 200 civilians were killed.
does this toll justifies israel's case?
thank you
Eil Y. Al Andary
email: eilandary@mbc.ae
July 17, 2006 1:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
J.David-I remember as a kid someone twisting my arm untill i said uncle.Today in the middle east we make every muslim say Israel.And if they dont they are terrorists.I dont know what a legitamate responce to an occupation is.But do you think for a minute that bush will put his foot down on a greater Israel.It has not happened yet, so the war goes on.
July 16, 2006 11:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
J.David-I remember as a kid someone twisting my arm untill i said uncle.Today in the middle east we make every muslim say Israel.And if they dont they are terrorists.I dont know what a legitamate responce to an occupation is.But do you think for a minute that bush will put his foot down on a greater Israel.It has not happened yet, so the war goes on.
July 16, 2006 11:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To JLZ. I am loath to respond to someone who resorts to insults as it usually indicates that the individual does not have the ability to offer a reasonable response. But in your case I will, as I did not elaborate on why I feel the U.S. is a declining Superpower. I note you did not disagree with me that Israel could not exist without the U.S. support. I hope I do not have to elaborate on that.
But first, apart from agreeing with me that the Israeli settlers on the West Bank are a problem and pointing out other enemies of Israel, you neglected to answer my question - if Israel only wants to be a free an independent state WHY ARE THERE OVER 200,000 Israelis in the West Bank placed there with the Israeli government support?
On the U.S. a declining Superpower? When I was a child at school the teachers would point out how the sun never set on the British Empire; fifteen years later after the Second World War, it was gone. (Kind of dates me doesn't it?) The mighty U.S.S.R Empire has disappeared since too. There are many indications of this happening to the U.S., I will just give a current one. Bush is condemning Iran and Syria for the present crisis in the Middle East. Where are the bulk of U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force? Slap bang between these two countries in Iraq. To quote an American panelist Goldberg a few minutes ago on BBC London Report,"with 150,000 troops helpless" so much for being the world's only Super- power. Of course they could strike by air - if you think oil prices are high now!!
As for my hoping for the decline of the U.S. as a world power, far from it. As much as I detest Bush and his administration for causing much of the problems we have in the Middle East with its unbalanced and hypocritical pro Israel position, I am not happy this is happening to the U.S., considering who might replace them.
July 16, 2006 10:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Thanks Mario for the David Ben Gurion quote. 2000 years of persecution at the hands of the Europeans has created a very particular populous. The Moslem world is not particularly aware of the 2000 years of fear. But as your quote says, the Jewish people, ordinarily bestowed with great intellect, should understand that it isn't the Moslem world's place to be so devoutedly aware of crimes they never committed. Still I make an effort to enlighten my friends. Perhaps the Jewish people should do the same. That it would be impossible for 2000 years of insecuritey to disappear in 58 years. Let's study it, and channel it appropriately. Otherwise channeling it onto the Arab nations, by virtue of wrong analysis, would never yield a sustainable state of sanity. Peace onto all.
July 16, 2006 9:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I have NEVER understood why we are so involved with Israel, anyway. The professor's essay recycles the concept that there is a strong pro-Israel lobby that apparently has been going on for 40 years or more.
It's confusing, because I think there are far more Jewish people in America than Israel and not all of them are or were pro-Israel. Einstein refused the presidency of Israel when it was created.
Isaac Asimov the famous science fiction writer and an intelligent man, was depressed when his friends were cheering the formation of Israel as a nation-state. When asked why, he said "We have established an ghetto in the midst of neighbors that hate us and Israeel will be embattled as long as it lasts." He wrote that he was sorry to be proven right so far.
People who have followed Israelian history a little more closely than I have, tell me that half of the problem in setting up Israel was that the British had pretty much butchered the job of governing Palestine and the hand-over, lack of compensation, displacement policies, etc. pretty much set up Israel for long-term problems.
It's been over 40 years and the suffering in the desert isn't over. Reading something about Judaism— a more interesting subject to me than Israel politics— I have learned that due to persecution, many Jews were used to having to obey rabbical directives without question for the sake of their safety. Anybody who married outside of Judaism or converted, just had to be cut off from the society for its own safety to prevent "leaks".
That is, every jewish community would have had a central authority. Part of the difficulty with the Palestinans is that they never had this history of oppression and they simply don't pull together and obey central authority for their own safety. You see this kind of failed thinking again and again so much in those conflicts you truly wonder if, perhaps, the Israelis need to be free another 40 years in the desert and begin to put aside their defensive thinking before they can begin to rule a country.
Obviously, putting a persecuted group straight into such a situation that would challenge the leaders of any nation was not smart. And yes, one should never be surprised when people do unto others what others in the past have done unto them. Nobody was nice to them when they were just trying to live their lives, why should they be nice to people trying to kill them?
It takes deep perspective to make friends of enemies. Many civilians on both sides have it, but not the overall leadership by any means. I have never heard the word "amnesty" used once in my reading about Israel politics.
And for those who are snarky about Jewish religion vs Christianity— Jesus was rejected as the Messiah because he did not fit what was expected from hearing the prophecies— a kind of strong man, an EARTHLY king, to drive out the Romans and reunite Israel.
A little study of Judaism and the Talmud and Torah does make this "sorry, but no thanks" attitude understandable. Don't have to agree with it, but Jews are not looking to convert anybody.
July 16, 2006 9:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
David Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, the president of the World Jewish Congress:
If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
TO ALL ISRAEL SUPPORTERS: ANSWER BEN GURION'S QUESTION.
PS: The arab states did accept that it's Israel that is never satisfied.Please note that Israel occupation predate the creation of Hamas,AL-Qaeda or others, and that ALL of the Arab states and the PLO are secular and anti islamists to boost.
In it's efforts to curb the influence of the PLO(80's), Israel conducted massive arrests against PLO members in the territories, while ignored the emerging Hamas, because it was a mortal ennemy to Fatah.I'm sure the politicians at the time thought they were pretty smart.
Any way, to all of you out there wanting more war and destruction, be careful what you wish for, it might come true.
STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION:BOMB MEXICO AND CALL IT A MEASURED RESPONSE.
July 16, 2006 9:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
From where I sit, I see a world that has taken a back seat and turned a blind eye on Israel and it's policies. Israel has consistantly ignored the Geneva conventions. It has been guilty of using collective punishment against a civilian population, when it has destroyed whole innocent neighborhoods in retaliation and vengence.It has destroyed power plants and water works that are necessary for the health and safety of whole populations. It has destroyed the homes of innocent relatives of suspected terrorists. It has targeted civilian populations with indiscriminate bombing. But Israel's and the worlds most abhorrent sin is that it sins against God when it puts the value of one Isralie dead child as equal to 100 dead Islamic children.
July 16, 2006 6:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Cyrus, I don't need your prayers, thanks anyway, save them for all the children caught in the middle who will lose their lives simply because Islamic radicals cannot live peacefully with anyone. THEY, through their hatred of Jews, have brought death and destruction to their children, and they do not care....or they would not have started it, or by their present actions, continue it. A pathetic race.
July 16, 2006 6:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
J. David remember what Gandhi said:
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world go blind."
I pray for the amount of hate in you.
July 16, 2006 6:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
J. David: You are a typical Republican, namely a fascist!
July 16, 2006 5:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Bush does not call for a truce in the mideast and thereby endorses the continue killing of innocent women and children on both sides. Is he a Christian?
July 16, 2006 5:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to Candide:
Save your juvenile, baseless, anti-American, Michael Moore, Clinton era, failed appeasement, tail-between-your-legs, worthlesss comments for your back yard, tea sipping, crumpet crunching, discourses with your loser clone friends (e.g., french grovelers who line the streets of Paris with trees so the Germans can march in the shade.) Really, do you think that attacking the President with your mindless rhetoric makes it real.....Meet Santa and the Easter Bunny you embarassing excuse for an adult.
For those of you who have not figured it out....the current administration has a middle east policy. We do not speak to, or negotiate with terrorists that kill innocent people, chopping off their heads, attacking them at work, in the store, waiting for a school bus. There are no negotiations until they denounce their current views and tactics and agree to "get along" with the rest of the humans on this planet that have just as much right to live as they do. The current policy is to destroy all terrorist organizations, we are in a war, get it, democrats you may as well stop crying and join the fight. Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton....all dealt as middle-men. We appeased the ridiculous right of Arabs to attack Jews. We negotiated. We got the same thing each and every time for out efforts....the current administration has decided to stop putting off the inevitable, deal with the monster in the region by the same terms it seems most comfortable dealing with its enemies....i.e., how many of you can I kill before you see things my way. Guess what, Israel and the US can kill ALL of you. This is the right policy. This will work. This will not take 58 years to end in success.
The Japanese would not have surrendered to the United States if we had sat in the Pacific and lobbed rockets into Tokyo for 58 years. The Germans would not have changed their aggressive behavuour if we had merely cut them off from the rest of the world. We were right to inflict this destruction then, the Israeli's are correct in their strategy, and the United States should help them, and absolutely finish it for them if the Iranians or Syrians directly intervene.
Diplomacy works sometimes. Sometimes it does not. It is a fact of life.
July 16, 2006 4:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It looks to me that Bush/Cheney have orchestrated this Israeli effort. The kidnapping of several Israeli soldiers was just an excuse. Bush wants to let Israel do his dirty work for him, pull his chestnuts out of the Iraq fire, and give him a new lease on life in the Middle East. Funny though, Israel failed in its unilateral disengagement from Gaza and the West Bank and so it joined with another failed nation, the US of A, to try something else.
July 16, 2006 4:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Question for Tom (earlier post) - it all sounds plausible (as a rat) -except the
one about Mossad agents being arrested in Lebanon. That one went
right past me. Do you have any links? Documentation?
Mossad might very well be behind it - after all, they supported the
Phalangists for years, and they are certainly not above assassinations,
even of peaceful Arabs, if it serves their purpose.
July 16, 2006 4:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
First, the world has to disallow any critique of the actions of Israel to be called "Anti-semitic." The Jewish people do not have a monopoly on the term, as it is a language, applicable to varied peoples in the Middle East and Africa - Arabs, Ethiopians, Palestinians - as well as Jews. I could accused Israel's treatment of the Palestians as "Anti-semitic," but what is needed is a balanced, humane, and historical analysis of this on-going crisis, where blame and blood should be placed squarely in the hands of a guilt-ridden Europe. Does anyone know that land in Africa was initially considered as a "Homeland" for the Jews? Instead, Europe, with American complicity and Arab passivity, gave Palestine to European Jewry, creating a geo-political and violent situation that could destroy the world.
July 16, 2006 3:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Here is another link to the paper, just in case if the previous one does not work.
http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011
July 16, 2006 3:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I found the article by the academic dean of Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University and another professor in Chicago University to be very insightful. It is disturbing. Read it, only if you have the courage to do so:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
July 16, 2006 3:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reading through the commentary in this blog it seems that the point is being missed - the current situation is not a spontaneous response to incremental tensions in the region, this is calculated and has been prepared for since Israel's evacuation of southern Lebanon. This situation was IMMINENT because of the Iranian interest in heating up the region when needed (and the timing is better than ever from there perspective), they have been arming the Hizbullah to the teeth with almost everything in their arsenal (as was seen by the employment of the C802 missle and others). These are standard imperialist methods (the Soviets did the same in Cuba which almost brought the world to the brink of nuclear war) and cannot be tolerated!!! The Middle East will remain unstable as long as Hizbullah exists and as long as it serves the Iranian interests. Hizbullah must be neutralized and it is unimportant what tactical methods are currently employed (while keeping civilian casualties as low as possible of course).
As long as Hizbullah exists and supported by Iran the region will be unstable and be a battleground of the forces of extremist Islam vs the West (Israel being the local representative of). This has nothing to do with the Palestinian issue which is being cynically exploited as it has for the past half century to further the interests of those with delusions of grandeur with the victim usually being the Palestinian future itself.
July 16, 2006 3:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The first thing the world has to do is disallow any critique of the actions of Israel to be called "Anti-semitic." The Jewish people do not have a monopoly on the term as it is a language, applicable to varied peoples in the Middle East and Africa - Arabs, Ethiopians, Palestinians - as well as Jews. I could certainly called the treatment of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as "Anti-semitic," but what is needed is a balanced, humane, and historical anaysis of this on-going crisis, starting with the guilt-ridden actions of Europe and America in the beginning of the 20th century. Does anyone know that land in Africa was initially considered as a "Homeland" for the Jews? Instead, Europe, with the complicity of America and passivity of Arabs in the area, gave Palestine to European Jewry, creating a geo-political and violent situation that could destroy the world.
July 16, 2006 2:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What comes across clearly is that the U.S. is suffering from strategic overstretch. We cannot simultaneously attempt to establish democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, attempt regime change in Iran and Syria, stop Iran from developing nuclear power, meddle in the internal politics of Russia, support resistance to Russian expansionism in the old U.S.S.R., contain China, and confront N. Korea - not to mention undermine the governments of dictatorial and authoritarian allies in the Middle East which we were doing until this year.
When Syria made overtures to cooperate with the US, we rejected them entirely, leaving Assad no alternative for support save Iran. At this late hour, Bush still lectures Putin on the need to establish a democracy like Iraq.
At some point, we have to prioritize our efforts and actually give up or share control with some Allies over some of our objectives. Today, however, the hostilities we have stirred up will make this difficult. As Joe Klein just wrote, the only observable impact Bush has clearly made in the Middle East is to strengthen the position of Iran enormously.
July 16, 2006 2:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What comes across clearly is that the U.S. is suffering from strategic overstretch. We cannot simultaneously attempt to establish democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, attempt regime change in Iran and Syria, stop Iran from developing nuclear power, meddle in the internal politics of Russia, support resistance to Russian expansionism in the old U.S.S.R., contain China, and confront N. Korea - not to mention undermine the governments of dictatorial and authoritarian allies in the Middle East which we were doing until this year.
When Syria made overtures to cooperate with the US, we rejected them entirely, leaving Assad no alternative for support save Iran. At this late hour, Bush still lectures Putin on the need to establish a democracy like Iraq.
At some point, we have to prioritize our efforts and actually give up or share control with some Allies over some of our objectives. Today, however, the hostilities we have stirred up will make this difficult. As Joe Klein just wrote, the only observable impact Bush has clearly made in the Middle East is to strengthen the position of Iran enormously.
July 16, 2006 2:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel, its neighbors and the world need an exits strategy that can normalize relations in the mideast along lines that will make further conflict in the region contrary to the interests of all parties, and hence impossible. Although things are bad now, they are almost certainly going to get much, much worse in the absence of such a plan: one of the most alarming reports I can recall hearing was the interview of a few years ago with some Egyptian college students who responded, when asked "What is wrong with Israel ?" with the answer "There is nothing wrong with Israel........that three well placed 100 kiloton hydrogen bombs would not solve." And make no mistake - that is where the mideast is headed if we don't turn the current model for relations between the parties around.
Peace between the densely packed countries in this part of the middle east requires a community of interest in stability, and for each country to have compelling interests in the well being of its neighbors. There will never be peace so long as Israel's neighbors see Israel as a military power with a history of leveling their cities and industries as opposed to a willing and enthusiastic partner dedicated to regional development, trade, education and tourism.
There was a time before the initiation of the settlement movement 30-odd years ago where there was serious and constructive talk of establishing such partnerships across the middle east. But partners tend to become sceptical, and perhaps even aggrieved and alienated when they see such offers accompanied by extra-legal seizures of their land and water.
But if cooperation of this nature is what it is going to take to stabilize the mideast, we had best all get started. And "we" in this case clearly includes all the states that have contributed to the current turmoil - the countries of Europe whose policies and actions during World War II led the jews of Europe to search for a new homeland, the United Nations for authorizing the partition of Palestine without making any plans for the consequences of that action, the United States for the errors in policy which have contributed so profoundly to the current crisis, and those other countries of the mideast who have also done their best to throw fuel on the flames of hatred that have contributed to the current conflagration.
The Marshall plan, dedicated to the rebuilding of former enemy and friend alike in the devastated countries of Europe following World War II is an example of the effectiveness of such efforts in permanently terminating the historic hostilities that had riven Europe over the prior centuries. So it can be done. But it will not be cheap and it will take a commitment to diplomacy and persuasion that will be at least as challenging as finding the funds to initiate this plan.
But the cheap solutions - the suicide bombers of the dispossessed and Israel's F-16s - have now all been tried many times, and have only led to a level of destruction, distrust and hatred that will make true peace in the middle east even more difficult to attain.
It could be that Israel and its neighbors - given some breathing room and encouragement from the many parties who have interests in the stability and prosperity of this region of the world - could start this effort on their own, though they will clearly need massive financial support on the level of the Marshall plan or a substantial fraction thereof to finance what must be done. But it is equall;y likely that the parties outside the conflict, most particularly the United States, are going to have to lay out the outlines of this strategy on the table, and work with the current combatants to terminate the current hostilities and move on to more constructive objectives.
Vision is what is needed here, a vision of an economically integrated mideast parallel to Europe in which Israel has not only granted full recognition and sovereignty to its neighbors and vice-versa, but has compelling interests in their well being and prosperity. There can be no lasting peace until this end is achieved.
July 16, 2006 2:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel and Western diplomats made a major miscalculation: by trying to
apply pressure on the Palestinians to force them to annul their
election of Hamas, they played directly into Hamas' hands. They
refused to pay the salaries of the Palestinian security forces, and
thereby released havoc on the inhabitants of Gaza. It is similar to
the miscalculation of Paul Bremer, who quit paying
the Iraqi army and ensured their enmity, for which the U.S.
is paying dearly today (about 9 billion dollars a month).
Israel withheld Palestinian customs payments,that is, stole the Palestinians sole source of income except for Western aid.
This act of war is the original cause of the cycle of retribution
that reached its temporary culmination today in the rocket attacks on
Haifa.
Until Israel realizes that the choice it faces is 1) a decent
life for Palestinians, or 2) the eventual dissolution of Israel and
the installation of an Islamic state in Palestine, there will be
no peace in the Middle East. The time for a political settlement may already be past, and Israel cannot exist in the long run without a political settlement with the Palestinians.
July 16, 2006 2:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Am I the only one who smells a rat? Let's see.
1- Harrari is killed in a car bomb.
2- Lebanese are told by the west it was done by Syrians
3- The west and Lebanese demand Syrian military leaves Lebanon, they do.
4- Lebanon, few weeks ago, arrests terrorists linked to Israel's secret service Mossad.
5- Lebanon is leveled by Israel over the abduction of 2 soldiers.
July 16, 2006 1:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
One must listen (or read) the following interview with 2 prominent jewish historians to understand the conflict. It's long but well worth it.
http://democracynow.org/finkelstein-benami.shtml
Every commentator and reporter in this country should be required to listen as well.
July 16, 2006 1:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The incessant violence, the self-righteous hatred and the dismissal of the importance of the lives of people who are not "our people" on all sides in the middle east offer a sad lesson for those of us fortunate enought to not live there. This is what "faith based" society looks like- the dream of so many fervently religious people throughout the world. In the U.S., we must see this example as motivation to maintain the rule of secular laws and protection of minority rights. We must continue to struggle against the glassy eyed theocrats who would (and to some degree already have) similarly turn to policies based on violence and oppression justified by their god and tribe.
July 16, 2006 12:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I read something the other day, can't remember the author or I would attribute it to them....summed up the current (and the past 3 thousand years for that matter) situation in the Middl