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Sensible christians is that what lukewarm christians are referred to now. Just something to think about. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

To Anonymous of July 3, 2007 8:41PM: That is pretty much the same thing that the religious leaders of Jesus's day said about Him. Thank You. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Hey bub. If Odin's the true god, why is it that he got his ass thumped by the silver surfer?

Thanks, Mr. Elliott, for an intelligent look at the possibilities of heaven and hell. Thanks for voicing what I have always felt. froggie

Give yourself to ODIN the One True God.
All others are False Gods and are to be avoided
if you wish to spend eternity in Valhalla.
There is no God but ODIN the warrior God.
Surrender now and enjoy His Love and protection
for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.Amen.

You might call this great faith:

"“The Man upstairs, if any, will be kind to me. Never mention God to me again.”"

You know? That could be great faith.

"Our fisherman-neighbor on Cape Cod was packing 550 pounds of squid he’d just caught, and this was his reply to my asking him how it is between him and God. The occasion, last summer, was my commiserating with him on the suicide-death of his son…"

Funny bout them suicides.

Thomas Baum
You are what Sigmund Freud would call-Bananas!
Your wackiness helps create atheists,so deranged
and beyond reality are your infantile fantasies.
You give sensible christians a bad name.
I bet you believe in UFO's too,and alien abduction.
And monsters and fairies.
Watch out for the Boogieman.

viejita...

Good plan. I have found that rational thought is a very reliable guide in my life and choices. It isn't hard - take the "do unto others..." concept and apply it.

I know that: (a) we live in a universe in which cause and effect always apply (b) over time, the things we used to ascribe to divine forces end up being explained in a rational manner and (c) just because we don't know everything it doesn't follow that we know nothing.

Heaven and hell make so little sense and reflect so poorly on the god required to have them exist, it is simply not rational.

The other option is that we do go thru a judgement, that is what the meaning of vengence is Mine says the Lord, not by the way does He say revenge is mine. The Second Person of the Trinity of God did not become a human being to let us off the hook so to speak but to be the Saviour of the entire human race and then He asked of us to "Come follow Me". He also said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone", He did not say he who is with lesser sin or whose sin is forgiven, cast the first stone. There sure does seem to be a lot of stone throwers among some of those that call themselves christians. Every human being that ever was, is or will be are going to be in the Kingdom of God, I look past heaven to the Kingdom where ALL TEARS SHALL BE DRYED, ALL FEARS SHALL DIE AND LOVE WILL PERMEATE ALL. I don't really know much about the Kingdom except that it will be better than anybody could ever imagine. New heavens and a new earth, sound familiar. God is Pure Love, not the hate-filled, egotistical, revenge seeking being that so many people that call themselves christians think that He is, of course there are some people that call themselves christians that actually are. I repeat God is a searcher of hearts and minds not religious affiliations or lack thereof. True religion is taking care of widows and orphans. Some people seem to let their religious affiliation and even the bible get in the way of God. satan himself quoted directly from the bible, remember and lots of people use the bible to justify a lot of garbage. I am not here to try and convince anyone of anything just to let you know that God wins Total Victory, satan loses, it really does not matter what you believe, Truth is Truth. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

The concept of life after death like all concepts is mental and not physical. Therefore we can say with certainty that it is in our heads and put there by nature for a very good reason, it allows us to cope with death. The person is not dead but gone on to "a better land I know" (from "Old Black Joe"). That which is in our minds at birth bubbling up at a funeral is not a perversion.

Has it been warped, perverted for sinister reasons? Is the notion of hell the outcropping of God's love of us or mans love of that possessed by his fellow man? What does God have to do with it anyhow?

Hell is a gun held to the head. Do what the holy one says else hell followed by "God needs the money to spread His word" and a passing of the plate. Looks a lot like an ordinary robbery to me, not as honest as one robbing a bank who makes no pretense about what he's doing.

See the map of the universe at http://www.hoax-buster.org It locates all the significant places. There's this flat earth joined to the next flat earth by the nebol bridge and even locates hell beneath the bridge. Religion, "faith in God" is belief there is a demon on the nebol bridge preventing all from crossing it. The Reverend seems to think that's an absolute certainty while at least one person at the funeral was bright enough to say it, the demon guarding the gates to the next life is a hoax.

Hoax, the necessary ingredient in the con, confidence in a man that takes money in exchange for nothing. But then it could be an ordinary robbery of the type done by ancient holy ones. "Do what I say or else hell."

Great Question! But it would be good to consider what Jesus said -- read his parables on the Kingdom of God and then consider whether He thought that everyone was going to heaven. Or how about the Apostles Creed with judging the quick and the dead?

"Life is a gift of God and gifts may be turned down." But is your life a gift to you (or only to you)? The son who committed suicide was a gift of God to his parents, friends and perhaps even strangers -- his action deprived those folks of God's gift to them.

Mickster's idea is a good one, although I fear topic #3 would be unlikely to inspire any rigorous thinking or discourse. Most likely you'd get a lot of cute, pointless and heartwarming little testimonies, like the chain e-mails that circulate among office workers.
If On Faith doesn't follow through, how about we hijack a thread ourselves: starting with
1)Rational Thought: What is it and what is its role in your life?

SallyQ, JonM:

How about a column that alternates weekly with this one that focuses on other worthy aspects of human thought and behavior say 1)Rational Thought: What is it and what's it's role in your life, or 2) Logic and Reason: a help or a hindrance for todays modern American or 3) Loving Kindness - How does in manifest in our daily life, 4) Basic Human Values: What Would Henry David Thoreau life tell us about ourselves today? 5) Self-Reliance: Being a moral/ethical person without God/Heaven and/or Hell.

Cheers,

Mickster

It could be that our brains and consciousness are like radio waves and radios or television sets. Our brains recognize and house consciousness during our lives on earth. The brain does not create consciousness any more than a TV set creates the radio waves that cause sound and pictures on a screen.

When a radio breaks, the radio waves can still be recognized by other receivers. The brain is unique to each person, so the thoughts that arise are unique, also. We do not all perceive the same television program because our brains are not all standardized sets.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong. Perhaps we should all worship Zeus or a tree in the back yard.

Yes:

It’s about unselfish entry into the needs of the earth—everybody’s need of “daily bread,” everybody’s need of “forgiveness” (the outer and inner conditions of peace). And it premises all—all life and thought and action—on the sovereignty, providence, and promise of God.

No:

Our Father in heaven, may our lives honor your holy name. Your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.” In and as Jesus, God came to earth. He preached and lived “the kingdom [rule] of God” “on earth as…in heaven.” In the ancient baptismal phrase, he died to save us from “sin, death, and the devil.” He was “bodily” resurrected, looking forward to our “bodily” resurrections. (The earthiness of all this is splendidly spelled out in this week's first published response, by Tom Wright, the most eminent living scholar of the New Testament.)

When did it say that God sent himself? Hmm.. I coulda sworn Jesus was his SON. I must have missed something in the evangelical nonsense. Can't we all just pretend that Christianity is truly universalizing -- whatever happened to loving thy neighbor, the notion of peace and childlike kindness, ....

I'm converting to Buddhism.

as previously written garbled, that is to say the least, that was a terrible article

as previously written garbled, that is to say the least, that was a terrible article

You said it, Mr. Mark.

BTW, Anonymous, "remorse" isnt' a verb, so I'm not quite sure what you were getting at, either.

Wow. What a garbled piece of prose. Difficult to read. In my role as an editor, I'd say it "didn't scan."

Let us remember. If we believe the Bible then we believe the Bible. Not what I choose to believe. If evangelicals are wrong in our interpretation of Scripture and you are correct, then we all go to Heaven. If the Believers in Heaven and Hell and eternal judgement are correct in our interpretation, then I remorse in your soul while on this earth. Scripture teaches that there tears are wiped away in Heaven. I take this to mean, quite literally, that our memory of this life and those who do not join us in the glory of God will not pass into Heaven with us because that would cause sadness and sorrow. Heaven is a place of peace and rejoicing.