All Comments (22)

Anyone can start at this very moment, to engage in a spiritual life that provides new strength, peace, resolution and a hope, underscored by the tenant of faith. Interested? Read the book of John in the New Testament.
"For God so loved the world..." And He still does.

I and I could not agree more with the Rev. Bill Tully. I loved one blogger's response about reading books together as a family. I suggest two books: "God Created" and "Jesus, the Word" both published by Augsburg Press and winner of various awards for the best Children's Books. These two books can genrate meaning conversations for parents with young children. Merry Christmas to all

What exactly is a spiritual life? A relationship with an imaginary world?

At Jesus Boot Camp children are indoctrinated in faith.

At Hitler Youth Camp children were indoctrinated in faith.

Turns out, children have minds like putty that can be shaped into whatever the indoctrinater desires. Of course those minds cement over and stay in whatever condition, are extremely difficult to change. A camp is probably just a camp and faith is probably just faith.

Before the children are indoctrinated the parents must have faith in the indoctrinater, I guess. Faith moves mountains and causes societies to be destroyed. Lincoln said, "the south died of a notion" probably equating faith and notions, some kind of mental thing in any event.

I feel that this is the age old question of whether or not something exists beyond our quantitative understanding of the universe around us. I am higly educated in field of Biochemistry, and I have a scientific mind that is trained to be naturally skeptical of any claim made without hard and fast truth. I lived a large part of my life as an agnostic, but became a christian believer a few years ago. Since that time, I have come to know true peace in my social and professional life, and I have come to truly understand the meaning of serenity. One thing that science has taught me, is that all preconceived notions must be abandoned in the search for absolute truth. Many people lacking a "spiritual life" out there (including myself at times) are guilty of letting a few sour apples spoil the whole batch. Yes, there are a few grace-less christians out there, yes, religion has been used at times to sunstantiate horrible attrocities. But, in order to arrive at the point of truth, all these preconceptions about religion must be left behind. In my own scientific investigation into the life and death of Jesus, I found that indeed something supernatural an extra ordinary had occured two millenia ago. What was the conclusive proof you may ask? This may best be answered with a quotation by Renee DeCartes: "The heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nothing".

If man can't grasp the concept of the edge of the physical universe or something more common like the precise nature of light, how will we be able grasp the concept of our existance? Hate, insolence, haughtiness and self-assumption, among others, are things that most religions and most societies believe to be negative qualities. On the other hand, love is a universal warm, positive, optimistic and unifying virtue. In order to grasp the concept of our existance, we must possess the three Hs. Hunger, humility and honesty. Hunger for accurate knowledge, humility in the face of the sublime and the honesty to go wherever the evidence leads us. The negative qualities listed above will impede such a search and only love can be our true guide. Otherwise, Jesus' words in John 3:12 will prove true in our case, "If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"

I was born in a Buddhist family and I always thought I knew enough about Buddhism and I have lived my life for the past 30 years thinking that I am a religious person and that has kept me happy and from doing no harm to anyone, I hope. But I met my husband a couple of years ago and guess what, he has taught me a lot about Buddhism and I cant figure out how I survived all those years in my own misconception that I knew my religion. But I know what it was that kept my happy and knowing right from wrong. It was being spiritual. we have a saying in our Tibetan language which I shall translate in English " if you do harm to others then you will be the one to suffer" I am sure everyone must be familiar with a saying like that , I believe in many such sayings, which make life easy to understand and helps you make the right decisions. Well all these saying were just the spiritual and easy part of Buddhism. I never know the deeper meanings of my religion but I guess it never really had a bad effect on me. being spiritual is all that matters. be happy and peace

I am a 63 year old raised in a liberal Catholic household. Yes, I said "liberal." My father's greatest gift to me as a child was to allow questioning of religious teachings and dogma and to encourage me to think for myself. He always said he found it encouraging when things were tough to think that "someone up there" was looking out for him. He was a believer -- but told me I would have to reason these issues out for myself.

Through my personal experiences, education, and reading over the years, I have reached the conclusion that there is neither God nor Gods up there. I believe that man has created God in his image, not the other way around.

I have given my children the same gift that my father gave to me, the freedom to examine the evidence and make up their own minds about religious and philosophical questions. None has ever disparaged me for that, nor do they all share my conclusions.

I belief I have given them no greater gift than this. I hope they will continue this family tradition.

Very well put Phaedrus.

Choosing what one "believes" based on "need" is dangerous indeed. Better to teach children how to evaluate evidence, or lack thereof, for themselves. They will grow up in a world full of people trying to convince them of the most ridiculous facts" for purposes of exploitation of one sort or another. Better to arm them with the ability to think rationally for themselves. Teach them that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Teach them about the naturally occurring miracles around them in nature every nano-second, and they will not need ancient myths or Disney to capture their imaginations. Teach them that true reality does not take into account how we "feel" about it. It just is. Teach them to focus on every moment they are alive, becuse there is no evidence that this is not all there is.

Nobody here seems to know God.

If you do not know God, how could you possibly teach somone elso about God?

The answer should be "Get to know God."

Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

- John 14: 5-7

Once you know God you can teach your children and others about him.

These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

-Deuteronomy 6:6-9

I do not know that many people who have posted comments here can read these words, but they have been written for everyone to read.

In many ways God will make himself known

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

-Romans 1:20

I grew up in an unquestioning Catholic family and was taught by nuns. Catechism drills, daily Mass, confession, communion, being an altar boy--all that was part of my upbrining.
As parents, my Catholic wife and I had the common sense not to subject our two children to a repeat of our childhoods. We just tried to raise two good kids. Sometimes, I questioned that decision. Where might they find direction or consolation in challenging situations?
They are now happy, serious, successful adults. Spiritual matters do not seem to concern them. Religion merely provides a base for traditional rituals, such as funeral and weddings. They have met and survived some hard challenges, including a nearly mortal gang assault on one of them.
I am glad we did notimpose our religion on them. In the meantime, I have come to doubt the necessity of institutional religion. I read Pagels, Armstrong, Miles, Crossan and others. I haven't been to Mass in years.
Bottom line: We do not professional holy men and their institutions. We can find a sense of community, a moral base, and support fot the arts elsewhere.

Children ultimately need to figure these things out for themselves. What is more important is for children to be raised in a loving, supporting environment where unconditional love and parental consistency is present. Children get their initial sense of security and self worth from their parents, not from religion. This is more important than religious beliefs. I have worked for years with children of all ages, and telling them that God loves them without their feeling true love from their parents, or witnessing a loving relationship between them is basically meaningless.

I think this is a better approach: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/daniel_c_dennett/2006/12/the_gift_of_perspective.html

It would be nice to see some of the panalists have discussions with each other about these topics. Not much point if everyone hangs out with their own people.

I would advise them to tell their children that religion may be useful at some time in their lives. In the meantime, however, it probably has no use at all. So they should focus on the traditional aspects of the Winter celebration. Some of us will make it through the long cold winter, others among us will not. We have enough food to sustain us, we have confidence as a family, and now is the time for us to express our human spiritual love for one another, for the wider community, and for all humanity. We hope for a peaceful world.

There is no need for religion in this context.

Enjoy a warm and peaceful holiday.

How does one get a spiritual life without spiritual experience? My first spiritual experience occurred while reading the New Testament. It was not the words of the book but what took over my spirit that made me a believer. You atheists and agnostics may never understand but keep seeking and you may find.

There are a lot of nice sentiments in there, but I must quibble with a couple:

"Get a... spiritual life." Here is the God that I don't believe in -- an anthropomorphic diety that is promoted by wishful thinking and indoctrination, rather than by evidence. I think it's more important to get an ethical and a moral life than a spiritual one.

"Let’s ask someone who does." As Alain asks, who would such a person be? If it's a believer, we're inviting his or her credulity to be our own.

That said, if all religious people were as accepting as you seem to be, their faith wouldn't be particularly hazardous to the rest of us.

The problem, Mr. Tully, is that you cannot celebrate "Christmas" without doing harm to children. You teach them to believe in a "Jesus" that never existed and did not have a birth date ascribed to him even in the fiction that comprises the New Testament scriptures. You teach them to believe in a Santa Claus that does not exist. You teach them to believe that it is Santa Claus who brings presents while they are sleeping, only they are awake enough to know that Santa Claus is mommy and daddy. As they grow older, they understand that their parents have indulged themselves in a fraud perpetrated on their children, and the ministers and priests have lied to them. The message they get, then, is that not even the human beings they trusted most can be depended upon to tell the truth.

Bravo, Rev. Tully!

*standing ovation*

"If asked about God or the religious customs of the season, one strategy might be to say: "I don’t know. Let’s ask someone who does. Let’s read a book together."

Right. Would that be a pastor, that someone who knows? Would that be the Bible, that book to read together ?
Or would it be Nietzche, and its "Thus spoke Zarathustra."
That is the question. Probably read them both and more, and then decide for yourself and what you decide to tell your children. And obviously, no brain-washing or indoctrination.

Those who want a spiritual life can make one for themselves. Those who don't will be happy without one. Children should be encouraged to figure out what works for them, what their own needs are, and be empowered to look for ways to fulfill them. They shouldn't be pressured to see their parents' needs as their own.

"Getting" a spiritual life that is suitable to you may be a lengthy process. There are a lot of discordant voices out there, some of whom are very angry. I have found that if you keep seeking, you will also find some very wise and kindly voices, like Rev. Tully.