The Town Hall Demolition Derby

all lead by the gop-- a totalitarian group of nuts.

"The staged disruptions of Town Hall meetings on health care reform are shocking to watch." Are you kidding me? When Arlen Turn-Coat Specter shows up with Secretary "I-never-met-an-abortion-I-didn't-like" Sebelius to tell voters how the Democrats are going to nationalize health care and some people ask pointed questions and make pointed statements, the uncooperative behavior is condemned. When, in the previous administration, regular disruptions occurred during public events featuring that administration's reps, Thistlethwaite and her fellow progressive travelers did not condemn it. Why, oh why was Thistlethwaite not condemning that behavior then, but does condemn this behavior now? Could we possibly have here a situation in which the word "hypocrite" applies?

Are you kidding me DoTheRightThing?

During Bush's administration, if dissent was demonstrated during meetings, thugs in business suits quickly swooped in and carried the dissenter feet first from the venue, usually to the cheers and verbal assaults thrown by the crowd. Demonstrations and dissenters were "fenced" blocks away from where Bush could lay eyes on them.

Being in the room and able to voice your "honest" questions/comments, is a step far and away greater than republicans ever offered dissenters. Voice your dissent, express your concerns, then sit down and shut up and give others an opportunity to
express theirs. That is true Free Speech.

Calling your GOP current tactics honest dissent, is such an obnoxious lie, it diminishes not only those who engage in such behavior, it makes those who defend such behavior un-worthy to be called American.

ACORN has shut off the debate about housing, demonstrated outside of people's homes, stormed into banks, Black Panther's at the polling places last year, and the Democrates complain about Free Speech?

"They come with instructions on how to disrupt democratic processes"

Thistlethwaite, on what basis do you make such an assertion. An utter guess? A wild speculation? I left wing wish? If you have any factual basis for the assertion, please share it. Otherwise, act like a responsible citizen and refrain from reckless untruths.

Remember that it was Obama who urged his disciples to get in the face of their political opponents. It looks like this administration (along with you, Thistlethwaite), feels the right to get in the face of a political opponent is reserved for left-wingers.

American Taliban.

Shame on these faux Christains for fighting universal health care. My Jesus would support it on moral gronds.

It's disappointing that Thistlethwaite chose to take the issue in sideways fashion rather than head-on, because the real issue for the public square in America is not these minor protests, rather it is the large-scale disrespect of Evangelical Christian conservatives for the concept of separation of church and state which is damaging public discourse. The Christian triumphalists want to fill the public squares and buildings with their religious symbols and pass resolutions at public meetings improperly acknowledging religious beliefs which have no place in secular neutral activities, and force schools to include religious interpretations in textbooks. Their ignorance of or contempt for the fairness of the separation principle is the biggest danger to the public square, and it is a religious issue which religious writers must have the courage to take on directly...

Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite has apparently not bothered to read her history books. The colonists did not build a republic through polite discourse. The King's tax men and propagandists were tarred and feathered. That was the beginning and not the end of democracy.

So now we see the GOP Basijis.

Actually, from the posts written to this point, Ms. Thistlethwaite's point is right accurate.

We have reduced reasoned public debate to "griefing," trolling, and soundbite barking based on sophistry and emotion. Virtually every post before this include an insult, derision, or condemnation.

The tactic is not one-sided, to say it's GOP-this or liberal-that is just dishonest. Code Pink during the Bush years happened- most of us watched it on TV. They are not GOP-backed to my knowledge. GOP Basijis? American Taliban? Really? Are these the phrases and tactics of reasonable public discourse?

The republic- not the democracy, the *republic*- will not survive. History has provided enough evidence to show that all power structures don't last. We are not in a democracy. If you think we are, look at the definition of "representative republic."

The public square isn't broken. The people who choose to value disruption, sophistry, ego, vainglory, and the destruction of community are making it difficult for the public square to function.

I saw and heard enough news about Republican rallies during the 2008 campaign that made my stomach turn. These basically all-white, fundamentalist Christian gatherings were all about white and little about Christian ethics.

America as we know it will go down the tubes and not because of debt or universal health care. It will go down the tubes because we refuse to discuss things openly and civilly. We can thank the Republican Party for leading us down this path. Even when voted out of office, they have managed to find another way to thwart the interests of the majority. Rather than present their ideas, they prefer to obstruct. It is a sad day in America.

In America, winning has become everything. There is no longer "sportsmanlike" conduct. Too many of our supposed political and relgious leaders are showing us how to obstruct. I respect President Obama because he is willing to lead in a manner that seems to be going against the grain of too many "me first" citizens.

Take the "birther" movement. This is a pure farce. The movement needs to be stopped - by the ones that have supported it from the beginning.

Do the Right Thing said "When, in the previous administration, regular disruptions occurred during public events featuring that administration's reps"

+ + + + + + + +

I am sorry to report that there were very few public appearances by President Bush and VP Cheney. To me "public appearance" means a place open to all people and limmited only by space requirements. Most of GW's appearances occurred before selected groups of people. In fact, his appearances became almost totally military ones.

Therefore, to compare the townhall meetings now with the not-so-public appearances of Bush is not being honest.

The shoe-thrower in Iraq had many sympathizers here in America because many Americans were screened out of events.

The nutcase right-wing doesn't take defeat lightly. The Supreme Court opened the doors to a woman's right to choose. Solution: Pop a cap in the abortionist's head. The President and Congress realize that the health-care system has been highjacked by insurance companies and pharmaceutical firms. So they propose changes. To ward off changes the nutcase right-wing plants angry naysayers in what are supposed to be civil dialogs between politicians, high appointed officials, and the citizenry. Nothing is accomplished because the right-wing has already decided that what is being proposed will be much, much, much, much worse than what we got now. Is their opinion fact based? If so, can we get a look at the facts? No. We just get shut down.

You really believe you are going to sell this piece of garbage.24 protesters at Bush crawford ranch 24/7 reporting you liberal zealots are a joke.This is what you call a REAL grassroots effort not community organizers but patriots that love their Country and are not going down with the ship!!Get real-at the very least your conscience will be relieved a bit!!

I believe that the Dems and Progressives have been too passive for too long.

If these thugs want to play tough, we shouldn't roll over. They ought to be told to STFU and if they won't, then made to STFU.

There are adults trying to talk about matters that are important. If one of these loudmouths ends up next to me at a Town Hall meeting they will get the unfriendly end of my fist.

This is America FREEDOM OF SPEECH BABY!!We will make our voices heard.You don't like it throw stones as you will but we would fight for your right to say your piece also.So stop your whining and revel in the American Way of life-Americans are waking up and it is wonderful-

WWWexler-These grownups you talk of-they really need to listen to the people and not try to force feed proggressive garbage down the throats of Americans that don't think all smart like them and all.We hired them and they Will answer our questions.having their numbers on speed dial also helps.Get the world out.Inform folks of the Town Hall meeting of Lies.Single payer healthcare in 10 to 20 years . I could move to Canada if I wanted poor healtcare oh to aspire to those hieghts?

Americans are speaking out with passion at these town halls because their future health and well being are gravely threatened by ObamaCare. There is no need for reckless health care legislation at this time. It's just a Democrat wet dream. This latest meme from the Democrat MSM, that right wing Code Pink types are staging the disruptions, is utter nonsense. Demo and RINO politicians will ignore their constituency at their own peril. All it does is hand a win to Hopey-POTUS: they, on the other hand, may find themselves in the private sector, without Cadillac health benefits, in 2010.

"The King's tax men and propagandists were tarred and feathered. That was the beginning and not the end of democracy."

I certainly hope that you are using that as a metaphor, and not a direct threat against elected representatives. Because that would 1) be illegal and 2) prove Ms. Thistlethwaite's point.

What's so wonderful about the American health care system, as compared to other Western countries with "socialized medicine"? You may have to wait for elective surgery, but at least you're seeing a doctor. Nobody dies from lack of health insurance (as a friend of mine did). There are no fundraisers for people who need organ transplants. You don't get turned down for health care because you have a so-called pre-existing condition.

What about the freedom of speech of the other people in the town halls? Don't they have the right to ask questions of their representatives, too? Then why are they being shouted down whenever they ask a reasonable question?

One question to all of you who are against Government-run health care: are you currently on Medicare, Medicaid, or a state-run health insurance program? When you turn 62, will you turn down Medicare because it's "socialized medicine"?

Town hall meetings are an American tradition - we should allow everyone to express their views without disruption - even if we disagree!
about 6 hours ago from web

SenJohnMcCain
John McCain

The REAL problem with the public square is the illegal group that calls itself "The Family" that is running the conservative wing of that failed organization, and its failure politicians like Ensign, Sanford, Baucus, Grassley, Santorum.

These people openly claim to be above the law, and are openly working to take over government with a warped, faux Christianity in place of democracy

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/07/21/c_street/

If you had half a firing synapse you'd be working for single payer instead of against it.

Please stay away from our town hall meetings unless you can be civil or tolerate a beating.

That's my advice.

I can see that the goon squad is alive and well here in this forum as well as in the town halls.

Thuggery in the pay of some corporation, lobby firm or for a political party is still thuggery! These people are not patriots nor citizens who understand the concept of what a democracy entails.

It is because we live in a democracy that these thugs are allowed to operate or to even breath another free breath.

The contradiction is that they are out to destroy the very thing that makes it possible for them to misbehave so badly!

What is the name for a person who would sell out his country and its most cherished values for a few dollars and a free bus ride?

I find it profoundly ugly. It's like the fomented mobs of goons that stormed the city on the Night of Broken Glass that initiated the Holocaust. They construct nothing. They attest to nothing. They benefit nobody. They are thugs, pure and simple.

The more the Left is told to call mainstream Americans names who are simply trying to register their opposition to the socialist agenda, the more it is going to blow up in their faces. Americans' eyes have been opened at this point as to what is really going on. And they're mad as hell that they are now being categorized as "thugs."

Can you say, State Run Media?

"Trust is at the basis of every meaningful relationship--your familial relationships, your communal relationships and even your relationship with God."

I would leave the last part out of the statement. Trust in "God" is a recipe for ignorance and blind following of some religious dogma. Find out the truth for yourself. Don't ever become brainwashed by others who pretend to know the unknown. Otherwise, You might as well place your trust into Santa Claus. How's that different from your belief into an omnipotent imaginary friend whom you are obliged to trust? Also nothing happens to the Democracy without trust. Neither You nor I am under any obligation to trust people with whom you ideologically or politically disagree. Respect for one another and friendly adversarial system is what makes Democracies work. If Democracies were that feeble without trust they would've failed a long time ago. So called public squares have never been somehow impervious to propaganda agitators or other disruptive forces. In fact, mass hysteria and riots and less rational and thoughtful discussions are most likely to take place in public squares rather than in some other medium. The only purpose for so called Public Squares that I find useful is for the purpose of congregation in order to protest against whatever agenda you disagree with and that increases the odds of drawing attention to your causes. Fortunately, in this wonderful country such right is guaranteed by the The First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

This statement does not come from an atheist. The Trust is required for Business Relationships much more than it is for a functional Democracy. It is better to be slightly suspicious of politicians and other politically involved individuals motives in order to screen the suitability of those individuals to represent your PERSONAL interests in whatever legislative office they would like to serve the interests of the people. The representation of your selfish and personal interests as well as the representation of the public good at large are not and never will be 100% mutually inclusive. If you don't ask the question "Why should I like or trust that politician or people around me who push for whatever agenda?" then you end up with someone who gets elected entirely on his or her charisma rather than the issues for which they stand and really represent.

PS Communists in the Soviet Union where I come from would always insist and demand that the population must trust them because they know best without questioning Why? This is not how I would like my fellow Americans want to treat the politicians in the United States. Anyone can ask for trust but not everyone deserves it!

Was the revered commentator as shocked by demonstrations for civil rights and against Jim Crow? I don't suggest that the issues are at all morally equivalent, but isn't the idea of democracy that all play by the same rules and no one is more equal than anyone else?

How long can these people keep it up? Their network has issued the instructions, right out of the dominionist handbook for taking over school board meetings.

Let me scream, it won't last. Pretty soon they'll be back home in front of the tv watching jerry springer and beating their wives. Who cares.

Maybe they are just tired of so much Obama leftist agenda.

Obama as The Joker :

The left portion of the face should be that of the Joker and the right portion should be taht of Jeremiah Wright. Obama is double-faced and these are the two faces he projects.

Rev. Wright and Obama's parents' leftist views clearly sank into Obama's consciousness. Secretly this man can party with Chavez and not feel awkward. No wonder Chavez was so eager to shake his hand during a summit. Jokers flock together and guess what? Chavez wants to destroy America. Subconsciously Obama may be doing the same thing.

Wow, the Joker is now sitting on the throne. I wonder what mess and venom this guy will spread all over America and the world. The guy is a rabid protectionist. Soon we'll see much of the world complaining. To those who have no idea, socialists are historically rabidly protectionist. Probably part of their genes. You can't separate them (socialism and protectionism) like the two faces of a coin.

These thugs are "storm-troopers" just like the Nazi party in pre war germany and austria. They would disrupt legislators and government meetings and intimidate and threaten legislators. They shouted that jews were the problem and that they must be taken out of government. They overthrew the chancellor of germany and put Hitler in charge, because it was the will of the "real" germans. (you know, the "aryans")

They gathered up people who were financially hurting and gave them someone to blame and hate--the jews (dems today). They demonized the jews and made them less than human (dems are baby killers), thus free for targeting hate, bullets, vandalism, segregation then eventually, concentration camps and ovens.

Have we got enough hate in the gop for this to happen?--you betcha! It's just a matter of time. They will get a leader soon, like hitler, who will galvanize them. C street was created to help make this happen.

Dont think for one minute that cant happen here.

I think it is interesting that there is never a discussion of how people in favor of health care reform should behave in response. Does the public square under siege require reasonable people to walk away and allow the meeting to be seized? Is capitulation the only reasonable response? I suspect we all know what would happen if this 'movement' was confronted with the same energy they put out. Why is it never discussed?

It's good that progressive people are more reasonable in these discussions, but doesn't that just conceed the issue to these militants?

Apparently for some, freedom of speech is measured in volume, not validity.

Democracy happens and Liberty has 200 definitions. That's for each person, so that's a good number of definitions. It's not our job to save democracy and thank God we don't need to. Love finds a way. Send the kids to Beach Camp and enjoy the surf. The surf is always up, even when the market is down which is often enough. I'm sure if you mind your own business, you'll be too busy to worry about democracy. Sink the pink, it's all the fashion. Drink the drink, she's got jealous eyes. It's getting hotter. The mud is still the mud though and wet work is still wet. Go water the flowers. Too many people, too little livestock.

What this boils down to, is a bunch of verbose, and unfortunately feeble-minded wingnuts got a hold of a few posters and read a few too many propaganda sites. These sheeple are so easily manipulated by the fear-mongering speech of the insurance companies, corporations, etc. that they are driven to such ludicrous actions. It's quite pathetic, really. The insurance rep whispers, "Obama's ideas will ration health care" and let the mass panic sue.

To quote and old cliche: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

For everyone here who is calling the public option "socialism", I suggest that you go read this story, and tell the widow raising her two children why you're against the public option.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/05/AR2009080503331.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

I have attended small townhall meetings in my town when we need to discuss the budget. We have had a few tense moments, but because we sort of know each other we can make a joke and get past the tension. I personally don't like chaos, but I understand the deep frustration with regards to getting our elected officials to hear our complaints. When the TARP program was first rolled out, the vast majority of citizens were opposed to the bail outs. It was so bad that the phone lines got bogged down and websites went down. Still...the TARP program went through because Washington felt they knew better. The hated you may be seeing is that refusal to be heard long before the health care debate.

We are a nation getting deeper in debt by the minute, the minority party is being told to "shut up", and many have lost what they worked for their entire lives. There is NO reason to believe that a government reform of the present health care system would reduce costs and keep the same level of care. It just plain doesn't add up no matter how much you try to spin it. Government even admits they don't read their own bills, and still there are those of you willing to risk more on such incompetency and blatant arrogance. Amazing....

I found the DNC's response the ultimate form of freedom of speech. Show these people in a ad as being the psychos that they are. You can say what you want but don't blame progressives that you look and are a mob of stupid people. Thank you DNC for fighting against depraved people.

No Obama is not antichrists. He is a
socialist!

The putative topic of this forum is faith, but the writer's comments are quite beyond belief.

Talk about blaming the victim! The citizens who are speaking up (God bless them!) are not the ones shutting down debate — THEY ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN SHUT OUT by the political elite, meddling social engineers, and extremist ideologues who were in a mad tear to ram this garbage through Congress and down our throats.

Their anger — at being insulted, ignored, shoved aside and ratted on (see flag@whitehouse.gov) by the ultra-leftist political class, from our sanctimonious messiah in chief and his boss George Soros on down — is perfectly understandable and justified.

All one needs to know about these protesters is that Sarah (Death Panel) Palin is one of them.

I hope to sit on her "death panel"; sooner, rather than later.