Mercy for a Mass Murderer?

As for the last sentence in the article, it was merciful enough to not hang the man immediately. 270 innocent lives taken and this guy walks because he's sick?

Does it seem to matter to the author of this piece that the evidence linking Megrahi to the terrorist incident in question is quite patchy at best ? I think there is a strong case for emphasizing the difference between the innocent and the guilty as well as for forgiveness.

This seems to me more like a jab at America than it does compassion for a mass murderer.
I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.

I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt.

Mercy for a mass murderer? I should hope not. This crime involved considerable time in planning, plenty of time for thought and reflection and ample time to walk away. Quite different from the 19 year old camp guard at the time, John Demjanuk, who worked under the close supervision of the Waffen SS, now 89 years old, in frail health, is being harassed by our own government and placed into double jeopardy by the courts--no mercy even considered here, he had no such options. The Lockerbie bomber however was not operating under extreme duress in carrying out his horrendous crime, but rather engaged in a cold calculating murder.

why is Obama silent on this issue??? Why is he not defending the American victims of this horrible crime?

Where is our presidnet?

Would it be considered mercy to make sure that Abdel Baset al-Megrahi went through his last days with no pain, and allowed his family to be by his side at the prison?

I believe that is more mercy than he showed to the passengers aboard Pan Am Flight 103, but would still have ensured that his sentence of life imprisonment was served.

Now Abdel Baset al-Megrahi not only has more mercy than he showed his victims (and their families), but freedom to live the rest of his life any way he wants, short though that may be.

And now we know why the Scots don't wear undies under their kilts. They have nothing to cover.

Did they hold court in church. One might expect to see some justice for the 270 dead. Some good points in all comments "but" 270 dead,dead,dead, people and they let this guy walk. I wonder what the average Scott thinks of this? I bet the terrorists are having a ball with this!

Every story has two sides. The One Side, the relatives of the victims whot surely believe that Mr. Al Megrahi is a "mass murderer." And the thirst for justice will never wane. For the Other Side, all Libyans believe he is innocent, and most British believe he is innocent. Granted that the Libyans are biased, their beliefs can be dismissed. But are the British biased too? Surely we can call the British idiots to keep the "mass murderer" label on Mr. Megrahi stuck on him all the way to his grave. But justice that offers full retribution to One Side, and a full disbelief of a miscarriage of justice on the Other Side,
is Not Justice At All. And if the majority of Britons, lets say 50 million,
believe that Mr. Megrahi is innocent, and the relatives of victims, lets say 500 people, believe he is guilty, then the scale of Justice is on Mr. Megrahi's side
at 99.9%. What about Mr. Megrahi's conviction? Well, in the global outrage that followed the Lockerbie bombing, even an accused rooster would have been convicted!

I believe that Mr. Megrahi was a sacrificial lamb to the West by the Gaddafi regime. And he will probably get a hero's welcome in Libya as a patriot who served the political interests of his government, and took the guilt and served prison for higher Libyan officials who deserved to have been punished.

Who will then pay fully for justice to the victims of the Lockerbie bombing? Surely not the people in high places that are actually responsible for, but little stooges at the bottom, like Mr. Megrahi.
It is, therefore, a miscarriage of justice, for both the victims of Lockerbie and Mr. Megrahi. Nikos Retsos, retired professor

All of the other comments posted imply that the accused Abdel Baset al-Megrahi was convicted with overwhelming evidence. This was not the case. The conviction was most likely a convenient political solution. The courts in Scotland and England are aware of the likely travesty of justice and that is why they are letting him go so easily.

There's an English word for Judge MacAskill: prig.

He should have considered the wishes of the U.S. government and the majority of the victims' families. I doubt they share the good reverend's views. The victims' families are the ones who have suffered most, and now he has increased their suffering. Is that compassionate?

Not all terrorists are terrorists. Ask the families of the victims of the Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Or the families of the victims of the Salvadoran death squads. Or the families of the victims of the KKK. This country not only forgave the perpetrators of these terrorist attacks, but also denied that these terrorist attacks were terrorism in the first place.

Compassion isn't about what someone deserves. It's about what they need. If we value kindness and compassion over hatred and bloodshed, let's act accordingly and hold ourselves to a higher standard than the terrorists we oppose.

Unless, of course, we really think there's a significant risk that he will do it again.

We Americans proudly adhere to the finest Christian values.

Except when we don't.

Uhhhhmmmmm... Wasn't the Republican candidate for President in 2008 a mass murderer?

This man murdered 270 innocent people.
Now he is sick, and there are hospitals and doctors inside prision for his care. Why does his medical treatment include release from his prision? It does because Europe doesn't believe in the death penalty, or in many punishments. For them. For Americans accused overseas, its different. Americans can have harsh punishment.

As someone who is not a Christian or a member of any religion, I feel no compunction to show this murderer any mercy. He can rot in prison the same way he can rot at home.

To the posters saying that his conviction was questionable I say that is irrelevant. They didn't release him quoting a questionable verdict. They let him go home because he is terminally ill and they said he should be allowed to die in the arms of his family with dignity. Which, oh by the way, is something none of his victims were allowed to do. What, exactly, is the point of a LIFE sentence if not to spend the rest of one's life in prison? Are all prisoners serving life sentences released when death is near? If not, why him? This is absurd.

Shows the world what the west is and what the Islamists are not. We can either bring ourselves down to the level of the Islamists or we can stand up for our ideals, even with those who can't understand them.

What do we get by keeping this guy locked up? Satisfying our vindictiveness? It doesnt bring back those murdered and in fact seems to keep the wound of their death unhealed. Letting him go, will offer the chance for that wound to heal.

Not executing this terrorist was merciful and compassionate. Giving him freedom because he's terminally ill is just bizarre.

"What do we get by keeping this guy locked up?"
*************
We get the comfort of knowing the rule of law protects our society from mass murderers.

again: lunatics triumph over cilization. when will it be realized that the rule of law in the civilized world has been distorted to protect the perps and disregard the victims. perhaps for the dogooders and their murdering thug comrades this is acceptable(collateral damage) in their efforts to make the world a global diverse planet. BS

He was sentenced to spend his life in prison. If he had been sentenced to ten years in prison, and then come within a few days of dying it might have been different.

But sending him home to die among loved ones isn't mercy - it is a miscarriage of justice. Staying execution might be merciful - but he is going to die, anyway: the deal was, he'd die in jail!

Scotland needs to have some sanctions put against them. This was an international case. Not really theres to do with as they pleased.

270 lives gone. :( shouldnt of wasted the money keeping him alive, should of executed him on the spot after he was found guilty.

I am a Scot, living in Scotland, and I can tell you that what Kenny McAskill did today was not in accordance with my thoughts, my family's or my friends. I was as embarrased and disgusted watching his live address on TV as many Americans were and I do not endorse at all what he did. Al Megrahi should have died in jail here.

Most of you are missing the point. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence. What if he is as innocent as he claims?

He was Khadafi's sacrificial lamb, lured to Scotland on the pretense of testifying. He was detained, convicted and thrown in prison. The guilty party unfortunately has gotten away.

"why is Obama silent on this issue??? Why is he not defending the American victims of this horrible crime? Where is our presidnet?"

The State and Justice Departments, and President Obama himself, filed motions to keep al-Megrahi in prison. Unfortunately, there is little that the U.S. government can do legally when it is a non-US citizen and an non-US court system. Unless you want us to go to war with Scotland?

I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I agree with those who feel that al-Megrahi should have been left to die in prison for his crimes. OTOH, releasing him demonstrates to the Islamic world that the West CAN be merciful. Remember that Libya, until recently, had imprisoned several doctors and nurses for allegedly infecting Libyans with AIDS through vaccines. (Yeah, right) I would not be surprised if this release wasn't part of that deal. Frankly, I think that he should have been sent home to Libya with the explicit agreement that he be imprisoned there.

I have sent Secretary for Justice MacAskill an email pointing out that his action today disregards an important human maxim:

THOSE WHO ARE KIND TO THE CRUEL ARE CRUEL TO THE KIND.

fr thozmaniac:

>...I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.
I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt.

Um, just to remind you, Canada IS part of North America. A Canadian IS an American. Might want to pull out that geography textbook from grade school.

"I don't show compassion for someone who showed no remorse."

Compassion isn't something that people trade in. It's not a quid pro quo type of emotion or behavior. You don't give compassion in return for something given to you.

Compassion is a human quality that comes from an open heart and that opens the hearts of others and makes understanding -- if not comprehension -- possible.

Of course a convicted murderer is entitled to compassion. He, too, has a family, and their hearts will be opened by this gesture of the Scottish government.

Can I add a Scottish viewpoint to your comments?
Firstly Kenny MacAskill isn't a Judge - he's a highly respected ELECTED member of the Scottish Parliament.
Secondly his Scottish National Party government are probably the most 'forward thinking' and honest politicians that the UK has had for many a year. I find it highly unlikely that any kind of behind-the-scenes deal or cover-up is involved in al-Megrahi's release. As there was no Scottish Parliament or SNP government at the time of the Lockerbie disaster there's nothing for them to hide!
The real reason for his release?
News programmes in this country make it quite clear that al-Megrahi's lawyers continued to present more and more evidence to the Scottish Courts casting doubt over his guilt.
Probably the most damning showed that the Maltese shopkeeper whose evidence finally convicted al-Megrahi was paid $2M by the US authorities for identifying him as the bomber and providing evidence at his trial.
Hardly a dependable witness!
Please be assured that most people in this country would have left al-Megrahi in prison for the remainder of his days if his guilt had been one hundred per cent assured. Unfortunately that no longer seemed to be the case and that along with his terminal medical condition meant he had to go free. It was only a matter of time before his conviction was overturned.

To Alex511,

No, you are wrong!! People from Canada are not considered "Americans". Americans are considered to be United States citizens, not anyone who is a citizen of Canada. Not sure what grade you are in, but that is flat wrong.

I have sorrow and compassion for the families of those who perished in the Lockerbie atrocity. I remember the day well. It was horrible, a truly evil act.

And yet I also remember that I try to follow the Jesus Way which means it is incumbent upon me to show mercy to my enemies. I say this because I have learned a great lesson. A great wrong was done to me as a child. The memory has stayed with me. But I eventually forgave the person who wronged me. By doing so I was able to continue on the Jesus Way and its Truth which always sets us free if we embrace it wholeheartedly.

I pray for the victims and their families. I pray for the perpetrator and those who assisted him. And I pray for the Scottish magistrate who, it seems, is also on the Jesus Way.

The alternatives to forgiveness and mercy are bitterness and feelings of revenge. Both eat away at us. This in turn keeps us from truly knowing God's love, the balm that comes from it and the determination to pass on love, justice and peace which inevitably follows and which enhances our humanity. Indeed, the alternative is for us to continue on a different path, that of internal and external violence.

G. Guiton (Melbourne)

One question that no one has raised as far as I can see is "What justifies us in saying that he is the same person?"

I recently saw two pictures of Eunice Shriver, one as a young woman and one as someone in her eighties and a question which I asked myself was, "Which of them died a few days ago?" We cannot say of the young woman that she died a few days ago, for she was surely gone long ago.

Maybe it is something similar with Al-Meghahi, the lockerbie bomber, if indeed he was the bomber. Is he the same person?
When he dies, three months from now, will it be the young man of 36 who supposedly committed the crime or the middle aged man of 57 dying from cancer? What makes us so sure we are talking about the same "person"?

I would probably have supported his execution and am a bit shocked that he was not executed. But that is how the "compassionate Europeans" do things. And since he was not executed, and he is to die in three months anyway, I see no point in keeping him in prison.

NO
MOMMENT!

Oooppsa.

NO
COMMENT.

Once the Leader of the World the USA led the way of our Christian Values. We have fought for many years to even include pray in schools. In just 8 short years we have taken Satan as our leader. Hate and Evil has taken over our hearts. We can't bring the victims of the plan bombing back yet America wants this dying man to die in jail. March 20, 2003 the US illegally bombed Iraq with 68 bombs with only 7 hitting their target. 61 US bombs accidently bombed innocent people sleeping in their beds. The total amounted to 1 million killed and millions ran t other countries for safety. Americans justified killing of millions and even torturing thousands of innocent Iraq men/woman/children. Only Satan shows no mercy as Jesus said to the criminal who admitted his crimes on the cross. Yes Jesus said to the man " You will be with me in heaven". Jesus and our Father God can forgive us for all our sins yet we Americans can't forgive nor forget.

There is no mercy without justice...and in this case- it would
seem there was neither.

No mercy for the families of the victims and no justice
for the convicted terrorist.

Letting him go, will offer the chance for that wound to heal.

Posted by: bruce18 | August 20, 2009 3:33 PM
*****************************************

Care to tell that to the husbands, wives, parent and children of those murdered? You know, the people who were told he would spend the rest of his life in prison? Now they are betrayed by a system that is supposed to give justice, not mercy.

Christianity's emphasis on forgiveness can be carried to ridiculous extremes.

It also gives fence-sitters a perfect pretext for doing absolutely nothing.

Judaism and yes, Islam demand a rendering of accounts to your fellow man.

To those good Americans who are concerned with the mote in thy Scottish brother's eye, I would ask what justice would be appropriate to the captain of the U.S. Vincennes that shot down Iranian flight 655 with its 290 lives?

Why don't we then forgive Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot and Mao for the millions upon millions of destroyed lives?

fr thozmaniac:

>...I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.
I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt.

Um, just to remind you, Canada IS part of North America. A Canadian IS an American. Might want to pull out that geography textbook from grade school.

Posted by: Alex511 | August 20, 2009 5:51 PM
****************************************
As a Canadian I vehemently deny that if you are Canadian you are American. Canada is NOT in America! Canada is in North America!

It's strange for a minister of justice in a secular justice system to quote scripture. Was he looking for cover? If he's not running a Judeo-Christian justice system, why quote from the Bible?

Ultimately a matter for Scotland, I suppose, but people in the UK would not be pleased if the tables were turned. I recall much indignation over the IRA fugitives being feted in the US, even though they were viewed by many here as legitimate independence fighters -- the UK not having a history of great benevolence towards the Irish and home rule. But no matter.

Since this is kind of a faith forum, one can express the belief that the man released will have his day before his Maker and it will be the right mix of justice and mercy. Within that context it seems OK to show mercy here if it softens him up and brings him to repentance. But without that context (presumably absent from the Scottish minister's thinking?), I fully understand why people would be outraged.

What I do not understand is why this man was not sentenced to death eight years ago.

We have all known of many, many people who have heard from a doctor the words: "You have two months (or whatever number) to live," only to live a long and productive life.

This decision was insane.

"I recall much indignation over the IRA fugitives being feted in the US, even though they were viewed by many here as legitimate independence fighters"

The IRA blew up mothers and their babies in shopping centers and murdered and 'knee capped' people they didn't like. Trained by Al Qaeda and financed by the good old USA, including good old boy Ted Kennedy, winner of the American Medal of Freedom and hero of Chappaquiddick

How many millions did we spend on this guy from the trial in Holland to the special cell,to an early release because of prostrate cancer , he should have been left to rot ,or slotted early doors ,he will now become a hero , but the thing is 3 to 4 months later when he died he would have been a martyr .
Sad day for Scotland the people would have left him in jail ,must be a reason for the politicians letting him go dont buy this humanitarianism bit ,20 pieces of silver comes to mind.
As for Kenny made sure all and sundry new it wasn't his call
( but it realy was ),just his name at the bottom of the release form ,unfit to govern ,sad day for our country ,but an even sadder one for all those people who lost their loved ones in this atrocity .

What no-one seems to have cottoned on to, from the lengthy and somewhat verbose "release speech", is the number of times praise appeared to be heaped on to the Scottish Judges at the (show?) trial.

The intention would seem to be to convey the exact opposite.

Repeating this praise so many times was simply sending the message that the US had exerted undue influence on the Scottish judges at the trial and probably the man was never guilty in the first place.

America seldom forgives. Thank god the Scottish do.

The man is dying of cancer and won't be living for long; it is likely that is cancer was not discovered in time due to his incarceration, in the first place, so one could say that he did indeed get the death sentence, perhaps deservedly so.

This is not a joy ride for anyone; no one has gotten away with anything. The US government and President should not be commenting on a matter that is not a US responsibility. The real murderer in this the Pan Am tragedy remains "free"-Gaddafi himself.

Zero question about "What Would Jesus Do?" The Words of Jesus demand forgiveness, mercy & compassion from Christians.

fr thozmaniac:
>...I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.
I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt.

WHat absolute and utter rubbish!

I lived in Scotland too for a number of years, and the people couldn't have been friendlier. Many have strong ties to the US and a huge number visit here on holiday. Sometimes its easier to blame a country for our own shortcomings and it could be that if you felt unwelcome it was down to your own attitude and behaviour and not that of a wonderful and welcoming country.

Those bleeding hearts cribbing about why justice was not done in the case of a dying man, I ask you........have you even heard of Iran Air Flight 655 shot down in at the end of Iran-Iraq war (1988) by a US Navy "Guided Missile". 290 people died in that despicable act including 66 children. What punishment did the perpetrators of that crime got? Your whining is is just as disgusting as the selective, justice of victor policy applied to Al-Megraahi.

AMERICANS AR ETHE BIGGEST MASS MURDERERS OF THE WORLD. First Arrest George Bush for Americas war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan then talk terrorism.

You Americans are vengeful and hateful and never believe in forgiveness except when its your people doing the killing.

the US shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988, did anyone do time? US soldiers raped and murdered Iraqis, has anyone been given a life sentence?

Israel killed 1100 Palestinians in gaza openly, did you Americans even whimper there was a crime?

SO STFU

All those vitims of the Pan Am bombing, whose families took $Millions in cash as compensation from Libya have no reason to mouth off.

Your silence has been paid for by Libya, so STFU and enjoy that money.

The US routinely doles out cash to victims of its criminal murders in Iraq and Afghanistan.

While it seems strange to let this murder go, it's hard to see what would be gained by keeping him locked up for the last few months of his life. I think his release stands as a clear demonstration that the people who convicted him were morally superior to him in every way.

Actually, the compassionate release of this Libyan thug mass murder may be a smart move after all. Our first reaction, of course, is to be resentful. We would first have preferred that he be granted the same mercy he gave to all of those 259 people on the plane as well as to those killed on the ground in Scotland where it came down. I had a very good friend on that plane. His name was Matthew Gannon. He was a CIA agent and he may have been one of the targets of the bombing. He was on his way home to spend Christmas with his wife who could not be with him in Lebanon. There were several other CIA officers and staffers on the same flight. Despite our sorrow at losing them, we need to recognize that in these current wars of religion, unnecessarily sparked by our decades of support for the racist policies of Israel and the lunacy and ignorance of the Bush family, a gesture of mercy to a Muslim mass murder may have some value. It gives the lie to the Islamic extremists like bin Laden and others of his ilk that the christian west only wants to harm destroy Islam. There is also a long and very glorious history if mercy in Islam, perhaps most markedly demonstrated by Salahuddin the great Islamic ruler who conquered Jerusalem yet allowed the many surviving christians to depart safely in peace. We should also remember that Salahuddin...his name translates as Defender of the Faith... was born in or near Tikrit in Iraq, the same town where Saddam Hussein was born and raised. Granting mercy to Moghrabi clearly demonstrates to all of them that christians can be as merciful and forgiving as Salhuddin. Sadly, the religions fanatics on both the christian and muslim sides will not presently admit this, but it is the truth. So let us suppress our temporary anger about this and hope it brings about a better time in the future.

In my opinion the Scottish Gov't did the right thing in releasing Mr. Al-Megrahi based on compassion (He will died anyway in less than a year). We, the civilized world or some of us who professed to be Christian and especially a country like Scotland with deep Christian heritage (Scotland flag is based on cross of St. Andrew)have to able to act in higher code of conduct than those terorist who killed 270 innocent people. When they killed those innocent people without a chance for them to die with their love ones in their side, we have to do other wise. Wasn't it Jesus Him self the founder of Christianity, who showed us the ultimate example with His last remaing breath(He could use it to curse or condemn them but He choosed otherwise) "Father forgive them, because they know not what they do".

The comments on this story show clearly why people in many parts of the world now think of the Americans of the current era, as vindictive and savage.

Few commenters seem to recognize that the Scots, too, lost their people to this bombing.

All the equivocating about justice and or versus mercy in the Lockerbie incident pales alongside the issue of whether, say, the Americans known to be personally responsible to this point for killing several hundred thousand Iraqis on false pretences, merit prosecution.

There, the equivocation is between justice and thinking that it's okay to kill many thousands of Iraqi civilians. The latter choice wins hands down. The consensus there seems to be: yeah, it's okay to do that. They're only Iraqis.

The Maltese shopkeeper identified a shirt, but shirts don't have serial numbers and mass-produced. And that he was given 2M for his evidence by the US authorities makes this a sham and a coverup of some kind. Will we ever get to know the real culprits of this crime?

The full Micah 6:8, as I remember it, says that the Lord requires of us to "do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God". Think of it as being like a three legged stool, take one away and the stool falls over.

Yes, they have shown mercy in this case, but to what degree have they done justly? Being in the UK, I'm well aware of the fact that there has been speculation for some considerable time that Megrahi is not guilty. But to do true justice would be for those in authority to fully establish his guilt or otherwise, regardless of political expediency. Otherwise we can only assume that the conviction is sound and act solely on that basis.

It is right to show mercy. No doubt about that. But there's more than one way of looking at this. The victims' families on both sides of the Atlantic are completely at the mercy of the presiding judicial authorities to protect them from having to see newsclips of Megrahi's apparently triumphal return to Libya, and to give at least some sense that the punishment fits the crime.

I'm not normally one for airing the UK's dirty washing in public (I'm aware, of course, that this was chiefly a Scottish rather than a British decision), but I'd have to say in this case it follows a greater trend here that true justice does not rate highly enough in this three-legged equation.

The story told in England is that US diplomats were tipped off not to fly on that plane - the other passengers did not get the benefit of that information. So perhaps best not to get into too much of a moral blame-game.

On religious grounds, mercy seems to be mandatory. Isn't there a bit about loving your enemies? Never mind people banged up on reportedly shaky evidence?

Religiosity aside, in practical, human terms it makes little difference whether the man stays in jail or not; except to the man and any family he may have. Does of course prevent a further appeal being heard with a further look at the evidence.

Nice to know that the Scots legal system is indeed independent of the USA. More than can be said for the UK with the intended extradition of Gary McKinnon.

The man al-Megrahi will die soon enough.

"In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity," he wrote. "It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people. The perpetration of an atrocity and outrage cannot and should not be a basis for losing sight of who we are, the values we seek to uphold, and the faith and beliefs by which we seek to live".

If that is the case, then why did you bother to try him in the first place?

If Scotland wants to return him to Libya that's their business - but I suggest they do it at a height of 30000 feet through an open cargo door without benefit of a parachute. THAT is justice. And by the way, just how much Libyan oil IS Scotland/UK going to get out of this dispicable little sweetheart deal? They ought to be ashamed.

Sir, It is a gross impertinence that the President should criticize a Scottish court for its decisions. Distasteful though the decision is, and disgraceful though the jubilance of the Libyan people is, the court did the right thing. Two wrongs do not make a right. Compassion might just prove to be the catalyst to end terrorism. Its worth a try.

Working for an oil services company see a great deal of investment in Libya and more than a few of the companies are American - so perhaps some people should get off their high horses.

Should a man picked out of a line up by a shopkeeper given $2m by America rot in jail to appease the American people - I don't know.

We as peoples from all know that Americans think that one of them is worth many more than people of other countries - but ask yourself this are the American government innocent in all of this.

Was there an apology for the shooting down of the Iraqi passenger plane a couple of weeks before this?

Many people think this mans guilt is beyond doubt, but we all know that miscarriages of justice happen all the time and scapegoats are offered up for political reasons - could this not be one of these times.

All well and good stating this man deserves nothing, but as a so called christian country perhaps a few of you should try to act like it more often.

WOW!! What a Christian Nation!!! OMG!! He's DYING for GOD'S sake - I think Jesus will say to you, "I never knew you!"

Justice should have been served no matter in what kind of health the man seemed or seems to be in. Was it included in the sentencing that in the event this guilty man is sick with terminal cancer he will be released and sent back to his country to spend the remainder of his days near his relatives. (Of course we have relatives and kith and kin and friends etc.. ) but it is hard to accept this kind of decision.Will it put an end to atrocities, terrorism,bombings,suicide bombing that are targeted to "some" people. I am Asian and I am not taking sides. See what these folks have done to others.You remember 9/11,roadside bombs,etc.,etc.

He has to serve his sentence,right ?
Health is no excuse for freedom,however short lived may it be.

I Would just like to say that I agree with the general opinion that Abdel Baset al-Megrahi should not have been released even on companionate grounds and sympathize with the victims relatives especially when I saw the miraculous recovery he seemed to make on his return to Libya .

My problem is with some of the American politicians who called for him to remain in Scotland
Like senator Kennedy and others who are still in top politics in America
These are the same politicians that fought and campaigned for years for the release of Irish Republican Terrorists British lives are as important as American lives

It is time politicians and governments condemned all Terrorists and not make martyrs of the ones they like
The Spanish government would not extradite IRA terrorists back to Britain and now have to try and deal with ETA members that probably learnt their expertise in the same terror camps as the IRA in Libya.

All Terrorists are cowardly murderers it is very easy to set a bomb in a crowd of innocent unsuspecting people in a shopping centre ,leave a bomb at the side of the road and set it off from a quarter of a mile away or shoot a police officer in the back and drive away .

We the people of Northern Ireland now have to work with the
IRA terrorist front men on a political level and see them on TV every day and they carried out of the most horrific terrorist campaigns ever
they were hand in hand with the very people you are now at war with but as long as they have gave up the gun and bomb we will continue to go along with the peace process

I still say Abdel Baset al-Megrahi should not have been released but please stop the hypercritic ranting from your politicians who supported and condoned terrorism for over thirty years here in Northern Ireland and actually held up a political solution to the problem as we the people of Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom would not give in the terrorist demands and like your young soldiers are still fighting and dieing for freedom and democracy on distant shores

Yesterday I was shocked so much to hear that this the murder of 270 people could go home to Lybia like a Hero ! Flying home with a private plane of Ghadaffi !
It's a shame for Scotlands justice to allowing a murder of 270 people going out of that prison to be escorted to the airport like a big VIP person !
I am so disappointed about the Scottisch decision to let this murder go home to die there ! What's about all the victims families ? It is a big punsh in their faces and it makes their sorrow and grieve even bigger !
I have been to Greenock Scotland were Megrahi sat in that prison there .Have also been to Lockerbie . Thought of all of the victims who wanted be with their families to celebrate Christmas and from one minute to the next minute their live were gone about what this devil Megrahi did to put a bomb in that PAN AM plane 103 ! Have seen so many pictures of all the victims who were in that plane.. children, babies, mothers , fathers sisters brothers uncles and aunts ..
Everything what has happened on this day I can remember myself very well and still it hurts so much to know 270 innocent people had to die ! FOR what ? Why these 270 innocent people there ?

Now one of these murders of them are free to enjoy his life at home now like a Hero ? no matter if he is sick or not ! HE murdered 270 innocent people and now he got mercy ??? FOR WHAT ????

I am angry , sad and disappointed about the Scottish justice to forget the victims of that PAN AM flight and all of the victims families !

While it is true that the US government really should have no say in terms of Scottish legal decisions -- or the decisions of any other country for that matter -- the Scottish courts were morally wrong to release this man. If he was not guilty, so retry him and prove it. Otherwise, he is a convicted terrorist murderer. If you will say that he was the scapegoat for someone else, so be it. In Islam there is a concept of paying the victims family for a wrong done to them and killing or imprisoning their scapegoat is a fair action under the religion of Islam, so they are not going to think better of you for releasing him; they just understand that you are stupid people with a misplaced sense of justice.

For those who would like to criticize the bombing of an Iraqi plane, it was surely an accident and not done with terrorism as a motive. The bombing of the Scottish flight was done deliberately.

For those who wish to try to insert their anti-Israeli hatred here and accuse Israel of crimes it did not commit, you show yourselves to be the opposite of just and compassionate and always ready to blame the victim. We learn that those who are kind to the cruel will end up being cruel to the kind and this is what we see here on this forum very clearly by the Israel-bashing that has been posted by some contributors supporting this man's release.

We shall see if Obama stands by his statement that releasing Megrahi was wrong. If he means that, he will have nothing to do with the man who he believes ordered the bombing in the first place.

My bet is that oil will trump the victims' families grief.

Comicfan

"For those who would like to criticize the bombing of an Iraqi plane, it was surely an accident and not done with terrorism as a motive. The bombing of the Scottish flight was done deliberately."

Firstly, it was an Iranian plane, secondly it may well have been an accident but I would have thought a court of law would have been the ones to judge that.

Despite what idiots like "THOZMANIAC" above have posted, many Americans live and work in Scotland and countless American tourists visit here every year. Without incident. His claims that we all hate Americans and that Americans would be unsafe here are complete and utter rubbish.

I strongly suspect he's never even been here.

Indeed, the hatred all seems to be from American against Scots at the moment.

The judge's reasoning was execrable. He says the criminal's cancer represents a judgment by a "higher authority." Which of course means that all cancer, and presumably any fatal disease, is a judgment from God--which adds a whole new group, beyond the victims' families, offended by this extremely poor decision.

It is the role of govt. to administer justice. It is NOT the role of govt. to administer mercy, unless all the the victims petition for it. It is OUTRAGEOUS that this criminal be set free without the blessing of the families of the victims. If some of the families of the victims want to show mercy, good for them. But unless all of the families of the victims are willing, justice demands the criminal sit in prison.

I was born 10 miles from Lockerbie in Annan. It was not just the people that died that were victims but people who survived lives were also changed forever. Policemen who went prematurely gray due to the horrors they saw. I am a US Citizen now and the person that said Scottish people hate Americans is an idiot (they probably dislike idiots like him). The people of Lockerbie welcomed the American victims' families with open arms and comforted them even in their own grief. It riles me that no one was held accountable for Lockerbie as I grew up near there. And these Border towns are close knit communities where everyone knows everyone else. Instead of pointing the finger at the Scottish people why don't you point the finger to people closer to home and ask why some patsie like Megrahi was a sufficent scapegoat for the US Government instead of going after the real perpetrator Gaddafi? Maybe if they had there would have been no September 11th? Saddam Hussein was ousted and he was not responsible for so many US deaths..... and one final point the US Justice system sucks I was conned into a sham marriage by a foreign national who once she obtained the green card had an agenda to screw me for all I owned. She was allowed by the US justice system to perjure herself and get away with it. The onus being on me to disprove here lies. So do not whine about justice in other countries when US Citizens do not even have the basic right of innocence until proven guilty in their own. All that stuff about protection under the bill of rights for US Citizens I found out the last year is a fallacy. So don't come here and complain about other justice systems when the US system is the most flawed in the world not even following due process and the most basic tenet of most legal systems the world over but instead sides with the fraudulent and criminal.

its all very well to attack us scots,but why were some americans ,advised not to take flight 103?,why was the evidence,that heathrow was broken into the night before pan am 103 blew up,and only came to light after his trial?
what deal was done with regan and thatcher?
this plane wasnt meant to explode over lockerbie,i think this was meant to go off over mid atlantic,thus finding black box etc couldnt be done,
sadam lied that he had WMD yet busgh and blair went in and killed tousands of iraqis
sadam lied ,so that iran wouldnt attack iraq,this came to light under freedom of imformation,which an american asked for,about what came up in sadams interogation
i still remember that viatnam pics of poor sod getting shot through the head by a us soldier
why did the us allow irish amwericans to send donations to the ira,who in turn blew up victims in england with their bombs
dr jim swire states he believes that megrahi is innocent and he lost his daughter

rat_race_escapee - the role of the Scottish government is for the Scottish people to decide, not Americans, and it seems compassion is rather more important here than it is in the USA (witness the recent vile slurs against our National Health Service for example).

"Mercy" does not mean "treat people as they treated you." It does not mean "be nice to nice people." That is "an eye for an eye," and it's the Old Testament. Mercy comes from the new one, and it's about treating people in a certain way absolutely regardless of what they have done or tried to do, just because they are humans. If that is a revolting thought to you, then the New Testament (and the Sermon on the Mount in particular) may simply not be your cup of tea.

if he straps on a suicide vest and kills innocents, scotland will be responsable...
blood will run on their hands...

Dwight, try and do a little reading before slandering a whole country. There was no Islamic component to any of this. If Megrahi was even guilty it was old-fashioned political terrorism.

But don't let a few facts get in the way of your bigotry, and please, continue to alienate one of the USA's few remaining friends and allies.

Mr. Al-Megrahi should have never been released, is the Scottish government crazy, insane, what are they thinking... humanitarian reasons...mercy...jesus the guy is a mass murderer...oh sorry I forgot most of the people that were murdered were Americans and now the Scottish gov't has sent Mr. Al-Megrahi home to be some sort of hero...wow...wow

As several others here have pointed out, Americans only go on the warpath when it's an American who has been killed. Where is the justice, where are the tears, for the Iranian airline passengers killed by us? Where are the tears for the Iraqis murdered by us? Those people were just as valuable and innocent as the lives taken at Lockerbie. I applaud the compassion shown by Scotland. It's something that individual Americans and the American government need to learn. I've just never seen such hypocrisy.

I'm not a Christian, so I don't really know how the theology of this part works, but perhaps it could be viewed as compassion and mercy for the man's family more so, or as much, as himself. I don't know all the details on this man's specific case and people are bringing them into question on the comments. But, surely, the families of the imprisoned (rightfully as well as wrongfully) are suffering as well as the punished.

As Jesus said, "render onto to Caesar what is Caesar's, and render onto God, what is God's. His judgement was life in prison, I guess the Scots have forgotten that his sentence was from Caesar. God will have his chance to show compassion!

I would simply point out that the 270 people this man murdered did not get to die peacefully at home surrounded by loved ones. They died in terror and pain we can barely imagine. This man deserves no compassion, and he certainly does not deserve what he denied his victims. To all those who think he deserves compassion, do any of you care one bit about the victims? Do you have any compassion for them?

Me thinks the the Scots did a McSellout. Yellowbellies.

All those of you baying for blood - where is your outrage about the 290 civilians murdered when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airiner? (The captain was given a medal!)

Where is your outrage about the 100,000+ who have died in Iraq as a result of a war started by GW Bush even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no weapons of mass destruction?

The US has infinitely more blood on its hands than Scotland or Libya ever will.

Where is your outrage? Where are your calls for justice?

"Why don't we then forgive Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot and Mao for the millions upon millions of destroyed lives?"

Why not you helped Pinochet and Noriega torture and kill thousands of people

There is no way on earth to give "justice to victims" in a tragic situation like this. But, when we behave like our enemies, we become like them. Today I am proud of my native country Scotland and of Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill for showing mercy. As the saying goes "To err is human, to forgive divine". When I see the postings on newspaper comment boards like this one, on many topics, but recently regarding healthcare, I see nothing but factionalism, hatred and rage. Americans have lost their way - lost the great experiment in morality, humanity, freedom and democracy - lost their very hearts. You have become yourselves what you profess to hate. And that is the greatest tragedy of our time.

The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath.
It is twice blest: It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes the throned monarch better than his crown.
His scepter shows the force of temporal power, the attribute to awe and majesty, wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings.
But mercy is above this sceptered sway.
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings.
It is an attribute of God himself.
And earthly power doth then show like God's when mercy seasons justice.

As a Scot, and a lawyer, I would simply ask that we are left to decide how we administer justice in our country. Also, please remember that a large number of Scots were killed by this man. Scotland is the world's oldest true democracy (see the Declaration of Arbroath 1320, which inspired your own Declaration of Independence four hundred odd years later) We don't need to be told the difference between right and wrong from the country that gave us Guantanamo Bay, extraordinary rendition, Vietnam massacres, not to mention other atrocities such "He's Just not that Into You" and "Sex and the City - the Movie". Thanks for Las Vegas though.

George Bush is home, Dick Cheney is home, and Donald Skumsfield is home, why shouldn't this guy be?

How about a little repentence first?

Re: Obama's reaction (NY Times) "President Obama, echoing widespread anger and disappointment in the United States over the decision, called Mr. Megrahi’s release “a mistake” and said the government was holding further discussions on the matter."

Obama sounds like a declawed cat, meowing for attention. Loud, but impotent, idiotically fighting battles he can't win. It's embarassing. Sort of like Dubya asking the Russians to give us back the HMVVEES they captured in Georgia.

How many women and children did Bush kill in the WMD lies based Iraq war? Last I heard he was getting a $6 million commission for a book and resting comfortably in Texas?

The unalterable biblical fact is that all governments have the prerogative (if not the requirement) to use capital punishment. In this case mercy was already exercised by sparing the perpetrator's life. Further mercy may or may not be warranted. But let's not pretend that it has been a characteristic of this case from the beginning.

This miscreant should have been left to rot in jail. The hero's welcome he received upon his return home was not only sickening, but also proved that nothing has changed with regard to Libya and its embrace of terrorism.

I find some of your comments absolutely absurd. Do you honestly think that all the Scottish people were for the release of Abdel Baset al-Megrahi? Well just we weren't!

It was strongly opposed to by us Scots as it was throughout the world but that wasnt enough to stop it happening.

Everyday in Scottish prisons (as in all prisons) inmates die but they do not get released on compassionate grounds, even on the smallest of charges.

There has been little mention that Al-Megrahi's wife and children moved to Scotland (Newton Mearns, just outside Glasgow) after he was sent Barlinnie Prison. All 5 of his children went to school and colleges around Glasgow receiving more grants and government assistance than a Scottish citizen. So the excuse to return him home to his family was outrageous, his family were here and close to Greenock Prison!

So please dont include all of us in your disparaging remarks. I am proud to see the Scottish flag flying anywhere in the world but to see our flag flying in jubilation of al-Megrahi returning home made me sick. How dare they use the Saltire in such a disgusting way. He should never have been released, what more can I say.

My thoughts go out to all the families who have had to endure this further torment, there will never be any release for them.

Oh and Thozmaniac - what ridiculous BS - there is no way you had to wear a tshirt telling us all you were canadian - next time you are in Scotland just wear a tshirt with 'maniac' on it, that we are more probable to believe.....drama queen!

"George Bush is home, Dick Cheney is home, and Donald Skumsfield is home, why shouldn't this guy be?"

Posted by: oldahmed | August 21, 2009 8:20 AM

Funny how you Libs have no problem with war when the Dems are running it. No innocent Iraqis and Afghanis killed under O's watch huh?

Isn't it funny how the Brits always seem to look down on us for our sins? Did they forget how their country oppressed millions of people through hundreds of years of imperialism?

The most salient fact of this fact of this case has pretty much been ignored, even in major publications like the New York Times and the Washington Post: the author of the Lockerbie murders was not Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the intellectual author of the crime was Libyan dictator Moammar Khaddafi.

Yet George W. Bush not only forgave Khaddafi, Bush embraced this unrepentenent terrorist as a "friend" of the US because Khaddafi gave up the weapons of mass destruction that Khaddafi NEVER had...and agreed to sell the US Libyan oil.

The outraged families of the victims of Lockerbie should be protesting outside George W. Bush's Dallas home, not blaming ANYONE else for al-Megrahi's release.

But it won't do any good because oil trumps all other interests, national or personal

EMCB1230, no Britain has not forgotten its past. But I can't change what happened in the past. Nor am I responsible for it.

However, the US continues to behave this way today.

Tony Blair, possibly one of our most popular leaders ever, was absolutely destroyed by his support for and involvement in the Iraq war.

The British people and press have never been afraid to criticise or discuss the mistakes of our leaders and most of us are more than willing to acknowledge the crimes that have been committed in our name.

But for some reason the internet is absolutely full of hate-filled Americans desperate to call for blood and even sanctions against their few remaining allies! Witness the claims of people being unpatriotic or un-American for criticising Bush.

Get this through your heads: murder is murder, whether it is committed by a terrorist, by agents of the US or UK state or by anyone else.

If you want to criticise Libya then fine. If you want to criticise Scotland for showing some compassion fine. But it's time you also acknowledged what your members of your own country are doing RIGHT NOW and started asking for them to face justice too.

Posted by: emcb1230 August 21, 2009 8:49AM

"Funny how you Libs have no problem with war when the Dems are running it. No innocent Iraqis and Afghanis killed under O's watch huh?"

I think, emcb1230, you meant,

"Funny how we Libs have no problem fighting a war in Afghanistan, the country which harbored and supported the people who attacked on 9-11, but we were and are outraged by George W. Bush's decision to invade Iraq and get 50,000+ US soldiers killed or wounded...for no other reason than to enrich the corporations abroad and suppress civil liberties at home."

I find it offensive and appaling that Americans seem to think they can have a say about the European judicial system.
Whenever anyone, politician or 'normal' European citizen, says anything about the barbaric practice of the US death penalty, often after years of death row, US politicians bite out head of and tell us 'to mind our own business'.
Now a European secretary has, based on Scottish rule of law, decided to release someone for 'humanitarian reasons' and the entire US all of a sudden feels free to say anything about the European legal system.
If I were Scottish, I would have only one reply: mind your own business and try to solve the mess in your own country.

Read the "Evolution of G-d" before you sign on the bottom line. Don't accept everything on blind faith that another tells you. Open your heart and mind to your own set of beliefs and than re-read what you read before and followed resolutely. Religion is a doctrine, faith is hope, but G-d is about what one believes not what one is told by authority out of fear. For all the good religions have done, more wars have been started over it. For many rulers religion is a force to use against other people to maintain power. Religion is not the same as G-d.

The British just love thumbing their nose at Americans, even the ones who died over Lockerbie. If I were President Obama, I would have put a couple of F-15s up and shot that man's plane down. Nothing could be more just than to have him experience the terror he inflicted on hundreds of innocent people.

The decision to release him was a slap in the face to the families of the survivors.

Calabrese99, the US really doesn't have many friends or allies left in the world. What effect do you think sending your warplanes in to blow up a plane leaving a British airport would have?

And could you please just read what others are saying - there is huge cause to believe he was innocent. That is why the families of victims over here wanted his appeal to proceed. The one man who supposedly witnessed Megrahi only witnessed someone buying clothes, someone who didn't match Megrahi's description. And it just so happens that that witness - Tony Gauci - was paid in excess of $2 million by the US for his testimony. Look it up! There are numerous other unanswered questions as well, such as the break-in at the Heathrow baggage facility before flight 103 left. Look it up! Then comment.

Mercy was delivered when this person was not publicly skinned after his conviction. The judge has lost his mind.

Kenny MacAskill is not a judge!

Can't any of you just read up on the facts before commenting? Please!

"It's strange for a minister of justice in a secular justice system to quote scripture. Was he looking for cover? If he's not running a Judeo-Christian justice system, why quote from the Bible?"

There is an established Church of Scotland. It is not secular in the same way US courts are supposed to be.

I am anti-death penalty, but I was uncertain how I felt about this decision. (Full disclosure, I was supposed to be on that flight, but my boss kept me at the office an extra day. I had to pay $75 to transfer my ticket to the next day.)

While I am appalled at the hero's welcome the man received, the vindictiveness of the comments here and elsewhere show me that Mr. MacAskill was right in his decision. He answered to the highest impulse in humanity rather than the lowest.

As a Scot i can assure people here that contrary to many of the statements made most Scots agree with this decision.

Megrahi has long been viewed as the fall guy in this whole affair...justice is not vengence!

One more point is that while people have their own opinion on this affair being lectured by self-righteous Americans on judicial matters is a bit rich coming from a country that set up Guantanamo Bay.

Also one that shot down an Iranian air lined and later awarded medals to those involved? Who has been brought to book for that incidentally?

Seems pretty hypocritical to try and impose US laws/feelings on another country.

Dont the USA do whatever it likes regardless of world opinion? Like bomb libiya?

If you guys feel so strongly just petition your congressmen and senators to do a "postEmptive" strike on the guys house with a drone or something. Who gonna stop it?

The fact is, this is George Bush's fault. He spent eight years sticking his finger in the eyes of the world, this is seen as payback. I don't like it, but no one in the world feels it owes the US a damn thing after the past eight years.

fr thozmaniac:

"I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.
I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt"

Eh? Plenty Scots would beat you up for being an ignorant idiot but not for being American (who are very welcome)...glad you managed to 'exist' though.

How about that US Navy Captain bastard that murdered over 300 Iran Air (mostly Iranian) passengers during Reagan time?

Was he ever demoted? You people are hypocrites of great magnitude. The World looks at you with destine and you will only change when forced to look at conflicts from every angel.

To those who believe in life imprisonment without parole, you just lost big time. Quit feeling sorry for murders and be done with them. This SOB is now a hero in Libya. There is a difference between what you want to do and what you have to do. The death penalty should have been used but weakness in the face of an enemy has once again put us in greater danger. As to the religious reasons not to execute, God has given us the right to police ourselves while here on earth. Do you think this guy's God will make him suffer in hell?

The West will never learn. 9/11, the numerous bombings, suicide bombing attacks for the past couple of decades and you turn around and release this thug on compassionate grounds. Oh this has nothing to do with Islamists some will argue but it does. Whatever else they might lack muslims are a united lot for all their backwardness. Mercy is for civilized people who understand and value the tenets of compassion. It is wasted on savages which is what the followers of Islam are.

No doubt liberals cheer scotland's weakness....hopefully all who do will be on the next plane a muslim blows up.

Everyone is just assuming that Megrahi is guilty. He was about to get his case re-opened on appeal, his release conveniently puts all that to bed, and any reopening of the case to determine who really was responsible why it happened etc. This guy was obviously a patsy for someone. Can you say Iran and retaliation for Vincennes-Iranian Air airbus shootdown?

Ridiculous statement from the Scottish prime minister.

"Our justice system demands that judgment be imposed but compassion be available. Our beliefs dictate that justice be served, but mercy be shown."

Well, in that case, justice will always support the perpetrator more than the victim. This decision added injury to family victims.

I am sure this minister can sleep well at night because none of his family members got hurt during this heinous act.

Simply put, it is liberalism gone wild - the UK remains the gutsiest and most realistic of the progressively weakening and apologetic EU, but everywhere in Europe is a growing self-loathing, scared, non-confrontational core which sees fault first and foremost in the US and Europe rather than in the dysfunctional and violent Islamic world.

It is this deluded, liberal view that 'understands' and 'feels compassion' for mass murderers while saving their ire and mass protests for the very prosperous and decent democracies they call home.

Countless murderers and prisoners die in jail from natural causes.

The macabre joy shown by Libya welcoming home a 'hero' should give pause to our fringe left which swears that only we are bad, and that it is the 'innocent, misunderstood' rest of the world which we are unfairly characterizing.

Did the Pan Am 103 victims die with their families? Does Scotland care? Obviously not, logic has no place in the liberal pantheon.

In Britain, they gave a farmer a life sentence for using deadly force to repel burglars in his home; he had been burglarized repeatedly, and so took out his shotgun the last time.

A LIFE SENTENCE for self defense in one's home.

And now Britain releases a murderer of 230 people, yet keeping the poor honest farmer behind bars.

Is tyrrany becoming such a world-wide problem today?

It continues to astound me that this so called "Christian" nation is so devoid of Christian values in comparison to such "secular" countries as Scotland.

Thanks be to God that instruments of peace, compassion, and mercy do not have to be Americans.

For all the people who think this guy was innocent.

The Scottish minister did not make his decision based on whether the guy might have been innocent. It was based on "compasionate" ground, which too me is wrong.

If you want to reopen the case, do it. But do not make this guy free before the appeal.

This whole decision is a blow to family victims. I am just outraged by this Scottish minister.

Wow did the victims get die peacefully w/their families at home???This has nothing
to do w/religion period.and BTW if Scotland does not like Americans we can certainly boycott their products and going over there as tourist.

if they truly wanted to be mercifull, they should have invited the family to stay with him in prison, so that they can see that he was not a free man before he died because of what he did...

There can be no higher commendation for the ideals of free society than Justice MacAskill's assertion that "[c]ompassion and mercy are about upholding the beliefs that we seek to live by, remaining true to our values as a people."

His act is about "us" -- not "them." I, for one, am glad he is on our side.

At the risk of offending some,I wish to make a couple of objective observations.

Morally, the Scottish government has applied Scottish law and practice. They, like we, are a democratic country. I find it offensive that some vocal Americans are suggesting that the U.S. should somehow interfere.

I've found it very interesting hearing the stark contrast between comments by Americans compared to British. It is indeed the difference between Old and New Testament law. So many self proclaimed American Christians are screaming against showing mercy while so many religious and secular Brits are accepting a judgement for mercy. Where's the line between irony and hypocrisy? Some of us have crossed it, I think.

Scotland. Is that even a real country?

That's a really constructive comment Fishcrow. For your information Scotland is over a thousand years older than the USA.

Take some solice from the fact that end of life care in a Scottish prison is probably a lot better than that available in Libya. The guy will either be drugged into a coma, or suffer tremendous pain.

I have to say it is not Scotland nor the Scottish government who made the decision. But only one person.

While I cannot do anything against Scottish law, I still have the right to argue that this decision was BS and morally wrong.

Trumeau, firstly Scotland doesn't even have a prime minister of its own. Secondly, what Alex Salmond said is entirely valid. The Scottish government didn't exist at the time of the Lockerbie bombing and had no part in any of the backroom political deals. They had nothing to gain or cover up so they just used standard procedures. (And I'm very much anti-SNP so can't be said to be trying to backup "my" political party here).

Judging by what he said I strongly suspect Salmond doesn't Megrahi's trial was fair either.

W bush & co. murdered over one million iraqis in his jewish/xtian right war of choice-and got away with it.

the jews razed concentration camp Gaza to the ground and muerdered over 1400 defenseless civilians including 400 infants and children-and as usula got away with it.

President truman nuked hundreds of thousands of innocnet Japanese civilains-and got away with it.

Maqrahi is accused of murdering well over two hudred people, served some time in prison and is terminally ill:why is all this big fuss about him?

fishcrow - No, we're really just a fictional country with fictional characters, we are all called Jimmy, have red hair and wear tartan kilts!!!!! What an idiotic and downright stupid comment to make!

RealTexan, the farmer you are referring to, Tony Martin, was sentenced to five years not life and was released after three years.

Yet another example of people spouting hateful opinions based on a complete lack of understanding of the facts.

LILDG54 said "BTW if Scotland does not like Americans we can certainly boycott their products and going over there as tourist."
---
Stop spreading these ridiculous lies. Scotland has an associated with the USA going right back to its very founding. There are thousands upon thousands of Americans living, working and studying here and millions of Scots in the USA.

The only thing that might make Scots not like the USA if fools like yourself keep meddling this hateful rubbish.

Scotland is the world's oldest true democracy. The Declaration of Arbroath (1320) inspired the American Declaration of Independence four hundred odd years later. I am a Canadian of Scottish birth and I am proud indeed of my heritage today. Justice McAskill does not confuse justice with vengeance or mercy with approval. America has lost its conscience, lost its humanity and lost its way. Discourse in the US has come down to who can yell the loudest, hurl the ugliest insults or carry the biggest gun. The rest of the world has its own values to uphold - clearly higher and stronger than yours.

Al-meghri was likely the fall guy for a government itself complicit in the Lockerbie murders. This type of behavior however is not unique to the Libyans. For all the howls of indignation expressed on this page over this issue, I hear nothing about the monsters who brought ruin and death on a far vaster scale to Iraq but are still running free in this country with ample political support by large segments of the U.S. public. That few in this country argue these folks should be punished reflects greatly on our willingness to absolve our own selves from mass murder with little more than a shrug; certainly we can't be accused of German-style national introspection or guilt.

In light of our own collective hypocrisy, the granting of a small measure of mercy to a dying man seems to be a small travesty indeed.

Mercy--what I see in a lot of the comments and in the Scottish minister's actions is a one-dimensional view of what mercy would consist of in this situation. 'Mercy' does not only apply to the bomber, but to *everyone* who was injured by his actions. Letting him go out of compassion--for him--is one-sided compassion. To be proud of this decision and action is a simplistic belief that dishonors the complexity of the concepts of mercy and compassion.

According to Mr. Al-Megrahi he was not responsible in the bombing, according to the courts he was, according to the British who followed this case more closely; he wasn't. The world of political, military or intelligence strategies predicates way too many things go on behind the scenes, the public will never know about. Many times there are people who are sacrificed for the good of the whole. This gentleman may be an example.

Death for any reason is hard to accept but when life is snatched because of the wants of others; that is hard to digest to any extent. I know that if I were innocent of a crime, and people thought I was guilty; I would rely on mercy of others to spare my life.

Mr. Al-Meghari is the one with the answer and will have to respond to questions one day. Until than, he will live whatever life he has left preparing himself for his exit, and ready himself for what lies beyond.

If he suffers pain today, and is innocent than his pain will die with him. If he suffers pain, and he is guilty, he may have to suffer pain again in that 2nd death. Only God knows.

So we as humans do as we were taught by God, to show mercy and compassion because one day we might have to ask for it ourselves.

al-Megrahi just got a hero's welcome in Libya today. This is not longer about al-Megrahi, who I really don't care was released on grounds of mercy. This is now about Libya, a country the USA had improved relations with over the past years. Time for sanctions, heavy sanctions. The bombing was a Libyan government mission, a government still in power, and now they celebrate one of those who followed their orders to kill hundreds, someone released based on mercy.

Libya is beyond the pale. Time for a complete UN economic embargo. Lets let them know were unhappy with the type of people they are.

@ Ahepburn

When you write "They (Scotland) had nothing to gain or cover up so they just used standard procedures" I somewhat agree with you, especially the standard procedures part. As I wrote in one of my previous posts, Scotland has its own laws and can do wathever it wants.

However, I still believe that this decision was morally wrong and even maybe politically motivated. By the way, laws and procedures are never set in stone. In any democracy, they can be changed.

Fate1, if we did that we would be pushing Libya back towards terrorism. You'd have your measure of vengeance - which seems to be more popular than responsibility or humanity in the USA today - but you'd also have to accept the blame for every death that resulted.

Are you up for that?

Just proves the Scots are a bunch of pantiless pansy arsse faoggots. Scotsmen better keep their women locked inside lest they see a REAL MAN, AN AMERICAN in which case the women of Scotland would be running away in droves from the skirt wearing ballless lot.

@Trumeau When I wrote "they" I wasn't referring to the whole of Scotland, I was referring to the Scottish (regional) government, currently run by the SNP.

My point was that there was no Scottish government of any kind at the time of the Lockerbie bombing and the the current government is the first SNP administration ever - they only won in 2007. The relationship between them and the Labour Westminster government is extremely unfriendly to say the least.

So my point is, whatever the rights and wrongs of the Lockerbie investigation and Megrahi's trial, it was not their doing. They didn't have any mistakes or dodgy dealings to cover up. As MacAskill said, he asked the Westminster government for advice, and they said they didn't want anything to do with it, it was his decision which was quite possibly because they wanted it to reflect badly on the SNP and damage them at the next election.

Another thing Americans really need to consider is that the intervention of several US senators and in particular Hillary Clinton came across as very bullying here. MacAskill may have felt he needed to be seen to reject that interference and prove that both his party and the Scottish legal system are independent.

1. This shows how differently US views things compared to other countries in West.
2. Bombing was not an isolated event. It was tied (in some people's minds) to US shooting down a commerical airliner. Did any US citizens go to jail for that atrocity?
3. Canadians are not Americans unless one wants to be completely pedantic. If Cdns are American then so to are Brazilians. Not our fault if you didn't come up with a more descriptive name for your country.

AHEPBURN,

All you wrote about was about politics in Scotland. It was interesting and gave me another light about this event.

However, the hypothetical question of the Washington Post was do you think that Abdel Baset al-Megrahi should have been freed for compassionate reasons?

Well my answer is no because I believe that when someone commits a crime, this person must pay for the crime. Especially when the crime was to kill so many people.

Now, what is your take on it in the hypothetical scenario that Abdel Baset al-Megrahi was really responsible for the crime?

Compassion should not be given to the ungrateful. Before he left Scotland, MacAskill should have asked if he was guilty or not of the bombing. If he said "No," then he should not be allowed to leave until his name was cleared.

If he said "Yes," then he should have been pumped for all the information about who helped him, how it was done, where it was done, etc.

If he refused to cooperate, then he is not worthy of compassion.

For centuries Scot businessmen have had a reputation as sharp businessmen. In this case, they let the man go with nothing in return. It was a bad bargain with a man who has no gratitude, and who looks like he fooled the nation of Scotland.

The English would not have made such a poor bargain.

Who is fooling who? British citizens and British businesses have more vested interest in Libya's oil and gas than the Scottish and Americans......what is more sickening is that deep pocket American lawyers like "White and Case" are determined to prevent victims of Libyan terror in Africa from ever seeking redress in US courts....People who actively aid and abbett known terrorists from facing justice are themselves complicit in those feral crimes.

The reception this vermin received in Libya reminds me of the receptions the Repos used to give the Moron.

It can be difficult to show mercy but our core values triumph here. Well done the Scots.

What can you expect from those judges in Scotland who wear skirts. The Liberians are celebrating. Are they celebrating the compassion? Not quite, more like celebration for slapping the families of the victims and to the hell with what they can not have, freedom and democracy, This is about as discusting as it gets.

@Trumeau I don't know if Megrahi was guilty or not. There are strong grounds for doubting his conviction and that would have been tested by the appeals process he was going through but had to drop in order to gain compassionate release.

That is perhaps the real tragedy. If Megrahi wasn't terminally ill there would have been an appeal. In all likelyhood a lot of embarrassing evidence would have been uncovered and then we'd all know what really happened. Alternately it could have been decided beyond all doubt that Megrahi was guilty and he could have been left to rot in prison.

We'll probably never know now.

But I am certain of one things. If Megrahi was guilty, he certainly wasn't alone, but for political and commercial reasons no on in the UK or the US wants to pursue it. Too many people have too much to gain.

Perhaps we should just be greatful that as a result of this tragedy, Libya withdrew its support for terrorism and as a result the world became just a tiny bit safer. That may be small comfort but I think it's all we have.

Everyone has a death sentence hanging over them; it is the price of being mortal. Saying that someone deserves to be let out of prison because they are dying means we should let everyone out.

New evidence says he might not be guilty - no problem. Compassionate release for a terrorist - big problem. See how that works?

If the evidence against Megrahi was trumped up, if his lawyers were undermining the government's case, if it looked as if he might be a scapegoat rather than an actual perpetrator - THEN F**KING SAY SO!!!!!

Re-open his case! Present the new evidence his lawyers have supposedly come up with! Put the whole thing before the court, the press and the public. DO NOT BLOW SMOKE UP OUR ASSES WITH THIS NONSENSE ABOUT HOW "COMPASSIONATE" SCOTSMEN ARE TOWARD SICK TERRORISTS!

I don't know anything about the Scottish National Party, but judging by this episode they're worse at public relations than Obama and Bush combined. Idiots.

Red27, the sentiment is appreciated, but Scots ARE British. Scotland is part of Britain. Not only that but the British oil industry is pretty much based in northeast Scotland because of the North Sea oil and gas fields.

I'm afraid we Scots do potentially have something to gain from normalised relations with Libya.

ahepburn wrote: "Fate1, if we did that [Libyan embargo] we would be pushing Libya back towards terrorism. You'd have your measure of vengeance - which seems to be more popular than responsibility or humanity in the USA today - but you'd also have to accept the blame for every death that resulted. Are you up for that?"

This is not about vengence. This is about Libyans celebrating a man who killed hundreds. Who celebrates the release of a mass murder from jail? Libyans need to know that this type of behavior is unacceptable by the west, which released the man on grounds of mercy. Instead of thanking Scotland for its act of mercy they dance on the graves of those he helped kill. Business as usual with people like that cannot continue, not based on vengence but based on justice. We should not do normal business with those who support terrorist acts.

As for pushing Libya toward terrorism, no, I don't think an embargo would do that. They are already in the terrorist camp as evidenced by this celebration. If we say to ourselves that terror will intimidate us into inaction, then we have lost the battle and the terrorist who are responsible for killing 270 people win. No, I'm not willing to let that be our answer to the events today in Libya.

@Telesonic - that was already happening. The appeals process had just begun and the new evidence was going to be presented but the wheels of justice turn very, very slowly, particularly in a case with so much international scrutiny.

It is extremely unlikely Megrahi would have survived long enough to see the outcome, hence the decision to release him on compassionate grounds.

The decision by the Scottish Minister was a mistake. As seen, this convicted mass murderer was given a hero's welcome, met by Col. Kaddafy;s son. If that is not a clear sign of a rogue nation that has made payoffs, but is not contrite in terms of its crimes against the international order, I don't know what is....

There is still the issue of oil contracts that the UK is bidding on that may be the real issue behind this "show of mercy." Give me a break, and while we are at it, let's break our diplomatic ties with Libya again and place them on the list of rogue nations and boycott British products.

IMCanadian wrote" 2. Bombing was not an isolated event. It was tied (in some people's minds) to US shooting down a commerical airliner. Did any US citizens go to jail for that atrocity?"

Did the US send people to purposly shoot down that airliner? Comparing an accident with premeditated murder is more than a stretch, its dishonest.

@Fate1 I agree that the Libyan reaction was unforgiveable and diplomatic and political moves are already under way to demonstrate how p---ed of the UK and US governments are about it.

But it would be in no one's interests to push Libya back into the arms of the terrorists.

@Fate1 - how do you think the USA would react if an Iranian warship arrived off the coast of the US and shot down a civilian airliner?

Would they say "gee whiz, we realise it was an accident" and not approvingly as the ship's captain was given a medal?

Do the feelings of those victims' families matter less than the families of the Lockerbie victims?

The US never even apologised.

W_T_F ?!
The Scotts need to have an American Major League BASEBALL BAT upside their heads!!!

Mercy my USA True Blue AMERICAN @SS!
What about the 270 souls on board who were shown NO mercy?!
What about THEIR Humanitarian grounds?!

How about that Scottish PRISON just treat this scumb@g's advanced prostate cancer with a LASER beam and BLAST it to death!!!!!

Works for me and *WE THE PEOPLE*, right?!

This is from the statement by Scottish Secretary of Justice MacAskill. If only we were a people of such ethics and values we would not have faced the shame of Abu Ghraib. Indeed, inhumanity of one should not be the cause of inhumanity by others, otherwise we have failed as humans.

"In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity.

"It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people.

"The perpetration of an atrocity and outrage cannot and should not be a basis for losing sight of who we are, the values we seek to uphold, and the faith and beliefs by which we seek to live.

"Mr Al Megrahi did not show his victims any comfort or compassion. They were not allowed to return to the bosom of their families to see out their lives, let alone their dying days. No compassion was shown by him to them.

"But that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him and his family in his final days.

@KerryBerger There are plenty of US companies making money out of Libya too now and don't you think it's time the US started making friends instead of slagging off and "punishing" its few remaining allies?

This man served 8 years for killing 270 innocent men women and children and now has been released to go home to a heroes welcome. Why? Because some doctor said he has only 3 months to live. Everyone dies sooner or later and his time may or may not be up. But he did not allow the 270 people to live their lives to its fullest. They were not his enemies. He did not act in self-defense. He did not kill them on a battlefield. The 11 people that died on the ground including a child did not deserve to die at his hands. Why then release him to Gaddafi and company to be honored for this bloodshed that they have specialized in for years? Unthinkable. Deplorable and disgusting. Obama said he "regrets" the decision. Regrets it! Jeremiah Wright and his honoree Louis Farrakhan visited Gaddafi in 1984 when Gaddafi had already supported butchery all over the world. Farrakhan opined that if the Jews find out, their support of Barak will "dry up faster than a snowball in hell." It should have but it didn't.

If Megrahi is guilty of the Lockerbie bombing he should have rotted in hell.

But why do you Americans always start whinging when things don't go your own way? How do you think us Brits felt when the U.S. legal system ALWAYS refused to extradite IRA terrorists back to Britain for killing thousands of innocent British Men, Women and Children not only in Northern Ireland but also the mainland U.K.? Their bombs and bullets, all paid for by the good Old U.S.of A. It's therefore ironic, that as soon as America is hit by terrorist attacks (9/11 etc.) it launches a "War on Terror" and the whole world is expected to help. I'm sorry your people (Ted Kennedy etc.) should have thought about this a lot more before handing over billions of dollars in aid to TERRORIST organisations like the IRA. "What goes around comes around"

If there was evidence exonerating this guy or at least casting doubt on his guilt, the Scottish government should have said so rather than handing the world a line of b.s. about "compassion." That was unbelievably crass and foolish. At the very least, the victims' families deserve to hear the truth. Bad on Scotland.

Luke 13
Jesus teaches: Repent or perish

The justification in releasing of this hell-bound piece of human refuse is questionable. What is not is the manner in which it was publicized, and therefore set up as a celebration in Libya. Does Libya display Islamic justice and morality as they celebrate the mass murder of innocents? Have the imams and mullahs of the religion of peace commented on any of this? Is this not just another example of the culture that danced in the streets of Gaza on 9/11/01?

If there is any justice, it's that al-Megrahi got to remain under the socialized UK health care system long enough for his festering prostate to guaranty his slow and painful death. In America, survival rates in 2009 are 99.9 percent for localized or regional diagnoses, and 79.5 percent for unstaged! Add al-Megrahi's unnecessary demise to that of his 270 victims.

Everyone seems to miss the point that this has taken place under the Scottish system of law and justice. Therefore, the Scottish system is the set of laws by which this man is judged. If the system allows for a compassionate release and the Scottish system deems such a release appropriate in this case, then so be it. It is the rule of law and we, as Americans who believe in the rule of law over all else, should accept it. [You don't have to be happy about it; you just need to acknowledge a different legal system.]

Shootndribble - I recognise your posting style from elsewhere and I see you're still an ignorant racist windbag.

Murdered 270 unsuspecting (and apparently uninvolved) people? Makes you wonder at what point "mercy" can no longer be considered... 271 lives? 505 lives? 5,306? 51,118? 516,074?

As to the USS Vincennes, there are rules regarding flying too close to military craft on the open seas. All navies and commercial traffic around the world operate according to those rules. The United States, Russia, China, Iran... everyone... every single one. It would be like innocently flying your Piper Cub too close to the White House or the Pentagon; maybe you won't get shot down. But if you do, you're pretty much the responsible party. That's significantly different than planting a bomb in a plane before it takes off and deliberately murdering the passengers. What a maroon...

Plus, the captain of the Vincennes probably wasn't screaming out ecstatically to his (non-existent) god as he did it... what a maroon...

I am a Scot, something of which I have always been very proud, but now, thanks to the Scottish so-called government (prime minister Alex Salmond) I am very ashamed. This person should never have been freed and should have died in jail. Please everyone, do not blame the Scottish people for this decision carried out in their names. This was a decision by the Salmond regime and most certainly DOES NOT reflect the opinions of the people. A friend of mine was killed on the ground at Lockerbie. The footage of the prisoner arriving back to a heroes welcome in Tripoli was, to say the least, VERY offensive. I apologise to one and all. It's a very shameful and disgraceful decision. It was a HUGE mistake to free him. It seems that in Scotland, one can, quite literally, get away with murder.Shameful shameful shameful...

This is not about compassion -- this about a bid for cheaper petrol. And also the infamous Scottish stinginess --- better to save money on medical treatment and release a mass murderer. Shameful day for Scotland.

fr thozmaniac:
"...I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.
I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt."

Ridiculous. I lived in Scotland during law school and everyone was friendly. People went out of their way to help me if I was lost and others welcomed me into their homes. I have fantastic Scottish friends that I still keep in touch with.

Matt
Columbia, MD

Ah yes...The mercy of man, for a man who had No mercy for any man...Does he sleep at night? Should we care if he does? Is he terminally ill? Do we care that he is...Let death find its way to his door no matter where he lays...Those poor souls/victoms of his action, will greet him and open the doorway for him into eternal hell...There is no right in wrong...The price will be paid no matter where he lay

SRB2 - you have just tried to justify the killing of 290 civilians in a civilian Iranian airliner, by a US warship just off the coast of Iran, some SIX THOUSAND MILES away from the USA.

I repeat, how would the USA react if an Iranian warship arrived off the coast of the USA and shot down a US airliner?

You clearly think the 290 people on board IranAir 655 simply don't matter as much as the 270 killed at Lockerbie. You also clearly believe that American personnel have some sort of god given right to take lives in any part of the world without any kind of censure.

If those are your moral values then you can stick them up your a$$.

ahepburn wrote: "how do you think the USA would react if an Iranian warship arrived off the coast of the US and shot down a civilian airliner?"

During heightened tensions that were caused by the US, and the Iranians had all the events on their ship on tape showing the procedures followed leading to the shoot down, the unanswered warnings sent out, the regret when it was determined to be an airliner, well, I'd be pi$$ed, but I wouldn't think they came her to shoot down an airliner.

ahepburn wrote: "Would they say "gee whiz, we realise it was an accident" and not approvingly as the ship's captain was given a medal?"

Probably not, but I seriously don't think we'd approve of agents from, oh, say Britain heading over to Iran to avenge us by bombing an Iranian airliner.

ahepburn wrote: "Do the feelings of those victims' families matter less than the families of the Lockerbie victims?"

One was an accident, the other premeditated murder. You tell me, what does a family of a person who dies in a car accident feel compared to the family of a person who is brutally murdered by a stranger for political reasons?

ahepburn wrote: "The US never even apologised."

No we haven't and I don't agree with that. I understand why the US takes this position considering Iran's actions at the time that led to the tensions. America feels it was an accident that happened in response to Iranian generated tensions. However, in 1996 the United States and Iran reached an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" at the International Court of Justice. As part of the settlement the US agreed to pay $61 million in compensation for the Iranians killed. That shows some level of acceptence of responsibility. And no one in the US celebrates the shooting down of that Iranian airliner, no one.

Matt -- no denying that a great appeal to many Scots about this atrocity is the idea that they have "thwarted" the US. Misguided fools. Read the Scottish newspapers and see how many are puffing out their chests with pride.

Where were all these saints of mecrcy and compassion when a decrepit,nietyish Augusto Pinochet was hounded relentlessly for prosecution?The Chilean dictator was of course not a Muslim.And it was not chic to defend him.

Shooting down a civilian airliner is not a crime but putting a bomb on-board is. OK, let's go with that.

Do you think that one led to the other? Do you think that if the US had apologised or admitted wrong-doing or had prosecuted the officers involved instead of decorating them that the second event would have occured? Did you ever see any of the parents of the 65 kids murdered by military incompetance (at best) interviewed on Oprah or Fox News? Do you think their families have ever felt that justice was served? And if you go around the world with your military might then sometimes people who want to get back at you go for your weakest link. Sure the warplanes and aircraft carriers and HumVees and tanks look good on TV but some cell of disaffected loners will go after whatever they can. Not saying that I agree with it--just pointing out the flipside to an impenetrable military: the soft civilian underbelly.

The Chilean dictator also killed over an order of magnitude more people than the Lockerbie bomber, Cibikay -- over 10,000 instead of a few hundred. :/ Pinochet was also at least as remorseless as the Lockerbie bomber.

To Janicebyrne01

I would like to just point out a few inconsistencies with your posting.

"I am a Scot, something of which I have always been very proud, but now, thanks to the Scottish so-called government (prime minister Alex Salmond) I am very ashamed."

"This was a decision by the Salmond regime and most certainly DOES NOT reflect the opinions of the people"

1) Scotland does not have a Prime Minister, we have a First Minister. Every scotsman knows the difference!

2) The 'Salmond Regime' is the duly elected representatives of the scottish people

Your posting makes me wonder if you are really scottish.

It was the general opinion of the public here that Megrahi's trial was misled due to evidence tampering by the CIA. We all wanted a new investigation and we were going to get it.

The fact that Megrahi was going to die meant he now had no reason to continue with his appeal since it would not benefit him.

I am disappointed that there will be no further investigation but at the same time I respect the decision to let him go on compassionate grounds. We are better than them and we should always remember that.

Assuming that the Scottish prison system verified that the Lockerbie bomber was in fact terminally ill with cancer, I don't object to this. He's may be an innocent man as he claims, or he may be remorseless scum. In either event, God will judge him and he can't lie to God. Human vengeance is pointless; it always has been.

Micah? WWJD? I think we all know - just what the Scottish law and Scottish values directed the Justice Minister to do.
Mercy and forgiveness: I recall a Christian couple, young parents who lost their child to the Oklahoma City bombing, who forgave the bomber and prayed for him.
It's difficult to live the religious belief. No argument about that. And people do it - they do succeed in living the belief.

"The unalterable biblical fact is that all governments have the prerogative (if not the requirement) to use capital punishment."

Like the Roman government used capital punishment on that itinerant preacher from Galillee?

Some Christian you are.

This Justice Minister is clearly a reformist and has taken the belief to new heights. Would anyone have released Klaus Barbi, Joseph Goering, Heinrich Himmler or Adolf Hitler from Spandau had they been dying of cancer?

This is nothing short of taking God's role in the turnings of life and this man should have served his term to the end, leaving in a pine box if necessary. He offered those people no mercy, no compassion, no options. What he did to 270 people was vulgar in its nature and cowardly in his act {he was not even on the plane and remotely detonated the bomb so that he could live another day to repeat his offensive act.

A civilized society does not have to be merciful to people of uncivilized acts, beliefs or attacks. The civilized society is supposed to and obligated to protect its people and prevent the repeat of such offensive actions.

Maggie17 - no offence sweetheart, but have you actually read any of the papers here? MacAskill and Salmond are being crucified.

@Fate1 - I don't think the Vincennes actions were intentional, but the fact is 290 innocent civilians were killed and the US never even apologised. It gave a medal to the captain. In normal circumstances a manslaughter charge would be the least you would expect as the result of an incident like this.

At the very least the US would have tried to sink the warship in question. It would no doubt have called for all manner of sanctions against Iran. The press would have been full of outraged Americans demanding to know what an Iranian ship was doing off their coast. But the USA suffered none of this as the result of this incident.

I'm sorry but you can't write it off as an accident. What business did a US warship have behaving in that way off the coast of a country six thousand miles from the USA? I repeat, if Iranians committed a genuine mistake like this off the US coast there would be no talk of accidents or forgiveness, just hatred and revenge and you KNOW I'm right.

No one in the US celebrates the shooting of the Iranian airliner. If the vile insults and howls of outrage that Americans have been distributing all over the internet for the last few weeks are anything to go buy, I bet I could. But I honestly wonder how many Americans even know about the Vincennes incident and whether the rest are only "not celebrating" it because they know it demonstrates their own moral double standards.

@Cibikay - And how many years did Pinochet serve in prison?

It doesn't matter if he is freed or not because nothing will bring back the lives that parished.

The British fighting solders are some of the best and most courageous in the world
men like the SAS have went in and performed countless feats of bravery all over the world and helped American troops and civilians as well as British on numerous occasion's even the American army would acknowledge that and dismiss the ranting and ravings being said in this newspaper about Scotland
(part of Britain for you thicker readers )
The British army, government, and people have stood side by side the American nation and its troops since 9-11 more than most of your so called friends that you hand out thousands of dollars in aid too and get nothing in return
As for the utterly childish comments that Scotland is not a proper country although it is centuries older than the country thousand of Scottish went to and helped civilize
may I remind him of the Scottish, northern Irish, Welsh, and English solders that are still fighting and dieing in a war that the Americans started and asked for our help and assistance
In the last few months a steady stream of Brave British solders have went home in body bags but perhaps some of the sicker Americans will say serves them right
as for one of those sickos idea of shooting down the Libyan jet the yanks would probably miss and we would have another case of American friendly fire that would again go unpunished
al-Megrahi is back in Libya so no one can change that fact so the decision has been made right or wrong but rejoice in the knowledge that hopefully he does not die to quickly and has month's of agonizing pain in front of him where as if he had stayed in Scotland he would have had better treatment for his pain than he will get now and wee don't have to pay another cent to keep him alive

Merciful and compassionate are Allah, Jesus, Buddha, The Holy One, Blessed be He.
Mercy for this bomber, and justice for the surviving families, would have been to put him in the infirmary, treat him medically, permit him visitors, as prison rules allow. Then, dispose of his remains, as the law allows. PERIOD.

@AHEPBURN: I absolutely understand your point. However, Mr. MacAskill's statement about the release says "My decisions are predicated on the fact that he was properly investigated, a lawful conviction passed and a life sentence imposed." What does that mean? He also says that Megrahi had withdrawn his appeals for the conviction and the sentence. What does that mean? Doesn't sound like the case was all that shaky to me - at least not to the Scottish government or the accused.

Basically, MacAskill's statement says, in effect, that he's releasing Megrahi because compassion is how Scottish people define themselves. And it says that if the rest of the world has a problem with it - tough s**t, Scotland's going to do whatever it wants.

Very compassionate indeed.

THE E.U. SHOULD GIVE EACH MEMBER STATE A GOOD ROPE EXCEPT THE VATICAN STATE WHERE GIVE THEM A BOX OF MATCHES. THE SLAP ON THE HAND POLICY DOES NOT WORK IN THIS WORLD.

@Telesonic - the appeal was dropped because rules dictated that he couldn't be released on compassionate grounds while any legal action was pending.

Basically he had to drop the appeal if he wanted to go home.

There is also a lot of SNP vs Labour/Westminster politics going on here, with point scoring on both sides and MacAskill trying to attack and blame them but not say anything that would have legal consequences for the Megrahi release.

@USAPDX - What are your thoughts then about Northern Ireland? We had decades of tit for tat violence. Thousands of people died across the UK.

Locking people up and mounting retaliatory attacks just begat more violence.

It was only when people agreed to speak to each other and start forgiving the actions of the past that peace was achieved.

It is the Scottish Government that chose to give this compasionate pardon . It wont bring the people back that died in the explosion ; it will tell the world that the Scottish people are very Christian people appeasing God's request to show compasion and mercy , to forgive so that they too may recieve mercy and forgiveness ; other than that the Muslim demon should have been shot in the head the day he was caught .

I would advocate that Americans boycott Scottish goods -- but I suspect there's not much call for woolens and shortbread anyway.

Aha, Maggie, you've just proven that you're not Scottish and know nothing about the situation here. Again.

Mercy and compassion can only work with those who also have humanity, rather than unbridled rage and limited introspective and intellectual thought as in the Islamic world. In these cases, weakness and 'olive branches' breed more contempt and invites more terror, as it reflects a lack of conviction, a strong spine, and strength, essentially dying prey as seen by the mass murdering predators of Islamic terrorism.

Just think about it, it is unbelievable, anything remotely associated with Islam results in violence or failure: jihad - martyrdom - sharia - suicide bombings - beheadings - fatwas - hate teaching sermons and madrassas. How many terrorist groups and theocratic/failed nations can trace their history to one religion?

The best part is the unbelievable denial of the Islamic community ("We're mad about cartoons and everything about America!!... and.. Islamic violence...what violence?") and of course "America is the problem" far left which only thinks the US is the only danger in the world by 'radicalizing' all the terrorists. (Its not Islam's lack of democracy, education, free press, industrial activity, tolerance etc etc... no, no, no, "everyone in the world is good, only America is capable of bad things," says the Pelosi Democrats.)

Instead of apologizing and serving cookies and cream to everyone who has sworn to murder the men, women, and children of America and the West, perhaps the living in denial, taking America's security/stability/prosperity/opportunities for granted, and entitled far left will actually worry about security rather than just smiling to the world and saying, "We ARE SO sorry, please forgive us, we are just neo-con evil-led Americans, can we all be friends?"

If you are convicted of a crime that carries a life sentence, the only reason for you not to serve that entire sentence is if exonerating evidence is found.
Don't want to die in prison? Don't commit a crime that carries a life sentence.

Susan Atkins of the Manson family wanted to die in the arms of her family after she was diagnosed with a brain tumor while serving her life sentence for her part in the Tate/Lobianca murders. Her application for compassionate release was denied, and rightly so. I'm sure Sharon Tate would have liked to have been able to hold her baby in her arms. Some accounts of her murder indicate that she begged for the life of her baby. Her pleas were denied.
Don't commit murder, then ask me for compassion or mercy. The fact that you got to live at all after your act is all the compassion and mercy I have to offer, and more than you deserve.

ahepburn wrote: "I don't think the Vincennes actions were intentional, but the fact is 290 innocent civilians were killed and the US never even apologised. It gave a medal to the captain. In normal circumstances a manslaughter charge would be the least you would expect as the result of an incident like this."

The medal was for serving during what was close to wartime conditions, not for shooting down the airliner. And we don't bring manslaughter charges against soldiers during friendly fire mistakes do we? The US has accepted its mistakes, unlike the Iranians, and compensated Iran to their satisfaction.

ahepburn wrote: "At the very least the US would have tried to sink the warship in question. It would no doubt have called for all manner of sanctions against Iran. The press would have been full of outraged Americans demanding to know what an Iranian ship was doing off their coast. But the USA suffered none of this as the result of this incident."

You ignore the Iranians attacks on gulf shipping at the time. The Vincennes was there to protect international shipping against Iranian threats. This was not a sunny day during peacetime.

ahepburn wrote: "I'm sorry but you can't write it off as an accident. What business did a US warship have behaving in that way off the coast of a country six thousand miles from the USA?"

The US was protecting shipping in an area that had a high level of tension and military vessels due to the Iran-Iraq war. Iranians were stopping ships and inspecting them and interfering in international trade. Tensions were very high, and a fighter heading toward the Vincennes was something to be worried about under the circumstances. Read a little.

ahepburn wrote: "I repeat, if Iranians committed a genuine mistake like this off the US coast there would be no talk of accidents or forgiveness, just hatred and revenge and you KNOW I'm right."

You haven't a clue what the US would do.

ahepburn wrote: "But I honestly wonder how many Americans even know about the Vincennes incident and whether the rest are only "not celebrating" it because they know it demonstrates their own moral double standards."

Get a clue. First you imagine the incident happened during peacetime with no tensions. Second you attribute what the US would do under a contrived situation with NO evidence to support your contention. Third, and this is important and deserves repeating, no one in the US celebrates the downing of that airliner. No one is happy, no one cheers the Vincennes crew for that action, no one wants it to happen again. But today, in Libya, a man convicted of planting a bomb in a civilian airliner was cheered in a mass rally as a hero and treated to the equivalent of a ticker-tape parade. If you cannot see the difference you are blind.

I actually read just about all the posts on this.

There are some very good philosophical issues raised, or at least lurking, behind many of the posts.

All I can say is: I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision!

More than sufficient mercy was extended to this man. He was tried at the Hague under Scottish law. He was convicted of 270 murders. He was incarcerated in a Scottish prison for 8 years where he was presumably well treated. And now he should be released... by the decree of one man? 8 years in prison for 270 murders. How can the Scots speak of justice or mercy? I wonder what mercies would have been offered if this man murdered 270 Muslims and he were tried under Libyan law?

You reap what you sow. The bible says that also.

This seems like a potential no-win situation. Under Option A, the guy is a terrorist and, after getting out, will have great temptations to do one more act of "jihad" to increase the number of virgins he'll have in heaven. Under Option B, the guy was innocent, but is now p*ssed about having been imprisoned for 8 years and, being terminally ill anyway, will....have great temptations to (a) do one more act of "jihad" and/or (b) do something to "avenge" the injustice of being imprisoned for 8 years. Under either scenario seeing a quick, dramatic death in which he takes innocents with him preferable to the slow dying from cancer....

Is not his fair treatment in prison and a life sentence instead of a capital one mercy?

A life sentence should mean until you die; then we give the family the body to bury if they want it.

Where is the mercy for his victims and the compassion for their families?

Fate1 wrote:"The medal was for serving during what was close to wartime conditions, not for shooting down the airliner. And we don't bring manslaughter charges against soldiers during friendly fire mistakes do we? The US has accepted its mistakes, unlike the Iranians, and compensated Iran to their satisfaction."
You're still trying to justify and explain away the killing of 290 innocent civilians.

I've got news for you: you can't. Nothing you can say will make it okay nor make the families of those people hurt any less than the families of the Lockerbie victims. And the perpertrators not only went unpunished but were reward. I'm sorry but that is utterly wrong no matter how you try to spin it.

Fate1 wrote:"You haven't a clue what the US would do."

Yes I do. We all do. We've witness it again and again for decades. No US administration could survive not being seen to harshly respond to such an incident. Just look at what Americans have been filling the internet with over the last couple of weeks. Apparently Britain is an "evil", "Nazi", "socialist", "Orwellian" country because we provide healthcare to all our citizens. Apparently Scotland should be boycotted and subjected to a 9/11 style attack because of the release of this one man. Apparently Scotland supports terrorism and is a hotbed of Islamic subversives - that is the sort of hate filled trash Americans are currently filling the internet with.

As for the rest, you are still trying to sweep the killing of 290 civilians under the carpet. Maybe you can do that in your own mind, but the families of those people cannot any more the familes of the Lockerbie victims can. The problem is that the families of the IranAir victims never had a trial, never saw anyone imprisoned and never even received an apology.

Until you can see how wrong and how hypocritical that is you will never be able to understand and address the reasons why America is so hated by so much of the world.

Bottom line: 8 years isn't enough of a sentence for a mass murderer. I appreciate the Scots' argument for compassion, but compassion, like sentencing, must be measured. 270 murders is an atrocity. If I were asked to make a decision in the matter, I would have given the killer the option of dying a slow painful death, or be put to rest by lethal injection. Since the Scots don't have a death penality, I guess that only leaves one option.

It is my recollection that this man who caused the deaths of 270 people did it for what he thought were justifiable political reasons. President Bush took the US to war against Iraq knowing that Americans and innocent Iraqis would be killed or injured in the war. He didn't, of course know how many, and I assume he thought it would far less than the numbers proved to be. He presumable did it because he thought it would make the world a better place to live for those who did not die in the conflict. I don't mean to imply that I think of Bush as a murderer, but I find it difficult to see a rational distinction between his actions which he thought were in the best interests of the world and the Libyan who thought his actions were in the best interests of the world. Is there a real distinction to those that died as a result of the two acts?

The Scottish people have the right to let this man go. The person who said the Scots do not like Americans simply does not know what he speaks of. If you embrace the love and spirit and history of Scotland, the people will love you. I'm not sure if you are one of those crass Americans who screams I am America by the way you talk, walk and look, then you probably wouldn't be welcome around my house either. Just ask yourself simply, would the Lord have said sorry, youa re going to rot in prison, I think this genuinely shows real compassion. Its easiest to shiow compassion and forgiveness to the innocent or the righteous, but even hard for the worst of the worst. it shows that God's love shines through.

@PCPATTERSON - The gist of your post is fair enough, but I'm afraid it demonstrates one of the fundamental problems of discussing this issue - an awful lot of Americans appear to believe Megrahi was some sort of religious extremist, an Islamic terrorist.

Even if he was guilty as charged, there was no "Islamic" element to it, no "jihad". It was purely a political act. No one has ever seriously tried to claim this man was a religous extremist and please remember the bombing happened in 1989, long before anyone had heard of al Qaeda.

Just because a criminal happens to be Muslim doesn't make him a religious extremist.

I believe that real Christians will understand and accept the decision made by Scotland. I am saddened but not surprised by the hateful comments made by many of the folks writing in. I visited Scotland and was never made to feel unwelcome or in danger. Yet, we have one insisting he felt so threatened that he wore a Canadian T-shirt to save his life. We also have the usual rabble insulting the Scots, calling for a boycott, accusing them of making a "political decision for oil" and on and on. Plus there is the usual noise that everyone hates Americans and yada yada yada. As an American I never cease to be amazed at just how ignorant, vicious and mean spirited my fellow country men are. Its okay for us to invade another country using false and baseless allegations, bomb the crap out of their cities and kill God knows how many civilians. Its okay for us to support the Pinochet's, Batista's, and other murderous dictators because we get oil from them BUT we aren't doing it for base and false reasons because we're Americans. That thinking (freedom fries rather then French Fries) is destroying our country and our standing in the world. Now, lets all say thank you to the neo cons for the damage they've done. Thank you!!!

It is my recollection that this man who caused the deaths of 270 people did it for what he thought were justifiable political reasons. President Bush took the US to war against Iraq knowing that Americans and innocent Iraqis would be killed or injured in the war. He didn't, of course know how many, and I assume he thought it would far less than the numbers proved to be. He presumable did it because he thought it would make the world a better place to live for those who did not die in the conflict. I don't mean to imply that I think of Bush as a murderer, but I find it difficult to see a rational distinction between his actions which he thought were in the best interests of the world and the Libyan who thought his actions were in the best interests of the world. Is there a real distinction to those that died as a result of the two acts?

With the beginning of Ramadan, a time of introspection and reflection, I am once again amazed that, when the time comes to be Christ-like and compassionate, we are quibbling about whether we should display the same conduct of a mass-murderer. We have to live up to our principles, even when our emotions tell us otherwise...

Right now we have groups of people still attempting to punish Bush and Cheney because of the Afghan-Iraqi Wars. Causing human suffering is their accusation. We go to great expense and time to punish law-breakers here in this country. Its our law.
Overseas, the prisioner who murdered 270 innocent people gets sick, and a legislator in Scotland frees him to go home as a hero and live in more comfort than the average man. We are questioning whether this act is right or wrong! Its looney and very hostile to our country.

@DRZimmern, why don't you stop whinging and do a bit of reading about Megrahi's original trial and the appeal that was pending. There are grave doubts over his conviction.

Oh, and you might want to remember that the bombing happened in SCOTLAND, and that Scottish people died too. Indeed 81 non-Americans died.

Like the Saudis I worked with who had a "high five" celebration on 9/11, Muslims reveal their true nature with their hero worship of their terrorists.

All Muslims ColoradoDog? I suggest you look up the word "bigot".

I will repeat my comments for the consideration of anyone who has yet to answer why they would forgive this man's atrocities, and do not blame or invoke religious text. Nowhere in those ancient texts is a man given to anti-social & mass murder against society, nowhere is that society compelled by God or deity to forgive and emancipate a killer of such magnitude - not even Barabus in the Passion of Christ was deemd by God to be freed, only by a hysterical mass crowd.

I say again, this lone man, this sole Justice Minister is clearly reformist and has taken his personal belief to new heights of hypocrisy. Would anyone have released Klaus Barbi, Joseph Goering, Heinrich Himmler or Adolf Hitler from Spandau had they been dying of cancer?

This is nothing short of taking God's role in the turnings of life and this man should have served his term to the end, leaving in a pine box if necessary. He offered those people no mercy, no compassion, no options. What he did to 270 people was vulgar in its nature and cowardly in his act {he was not even on the plane and remotely detonated the bomb so that he could live another day to repeat his offensive act.

A civilized society does not have to be merciful to people of uncivilized acts, beliefs or attacks. The civilized society is supposed to and obligated to protect its people and prevent the repeat of such offensive actions.

The Scotts also do not have the same blinkered view of American policy and the consequences of our actions that abound in this country. Everyone knows or should know that Pan Am 103 and the military transport that was blown up shortly before that with no news coverage were revenge attacks for Reagan's bombing of Lybia and more importantly the shooting down of Iran Air flight 655 which killed 290 people including 66 children. So given the circumstances the Scotts rightfully concluded that the guy was more of a sufrace combatant than a terrorist and as long as he was terminally ill was no longer threat. Just a soldier of a relatively powerless country that had been horribly agrieved.

"Right now we have groups of people still attempting to punish Bush and Cheney because of the Afghan-Iraqi Wars. Causing human suffering is their accusation. We go to great expense and time to punish law-breakers here in this country. Its our law."

It is to laugh. Reagan destroyed Nicaragua on the thinest of justifications and continued the operations even after the congress stopped the funding because it was obviously a genocidal operation. Iran Contra I believe they called it. And then you mention Bush Cheney and the Iraq war of choice. We don't hold our mass murders to account. Never have. But give someone else the same break we give our mass murders and oh the crime. Also there are the terrorists comfortably living in Florda that we refuse to extradite to Chile even they blew up two passenger aircraft full of people because he was operating at the behest of the CIA. And others. Anyway this is not to say the Scotts were correct but the hypocrisy implicit in all this moral outrage is astonishing.

Some of you who are so ardently opposed to the judge's decision might want to read, or read again, this passage from "The Merchant of Venice," arguing that mercy must season justice. Who knows how many Libyans today think about the west a little differently.

"The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice.

-- William Shakespeare

at the time the lockerbie flight went down, it was reported that among the passengers were a DEA team en route back to washington from burma with a report for a congressional committee about how CIA, long involved in the heroin trade throughout southeast asia, was still protecting the burmese junta and warlords from even the DEA...

it should also be mentioned that the united states has long protected the known terrorist bomber of a cuban passenger jet who killed some 280 people in a blatant act of terrorism connected to the united states CIA. refusing to extradite him for trial, even at the behest of the OAS. instead, he was prosecuted for something like tax evasion here in new york.

funny, haven't heard any raging about that...

do they give degrees in terrorism, torture and death squad management at the 'school of the america's' or whatever the new PR name for that place is?

according to the usa census bureau, total deaths in the 20th century in terrorist events was 5761 persons. for wars in that century by and between 'legitimate' governments the toll was 162 million. as bloody old henry kissinger wittily noted, "terrorists are people without the money for a full-scale military."

ahepburn wrote: "Until you can see how wrong and how hypocritical that is you will never be able to understand and address the reasons why America is so hated by so much of the world."

Barney Frank said it best in a different venue: "Talking to you is like talking to a dining room table, and I don't wish to do that."

Just a reminder, there is no death penalty in Europe, so not hanging him was not an act of compassion but an act of law.

In any case, it's hard to empathize with the release of this criminal; in the other hand, it is not for him that we do this, it is for us: an exercise of compassion when it's hard not when it's easy so we don't forget we're humans and what compassion it's all about.

I understand too the feelings of the families. Perhaps from their stand point, compassion it's not possible.

Just a reminder, there is no death penalty in Europe, so not hanging him was not an act of compassion but an act of law.

In any case, it's hard to empathize with the release of this criminal; in the other hand, it is not for him that we do this, it is for us: an exercise of compassion when it's hard not when it's easy so we don't forget we're humans and what compassion it's all about.

I understand too the feelings of the families. Perhaps from their stand point, compassion it's not possible.

jhadv wrote: "So given the circumstances the Scotts rightfully concluded that the guy was more of a sufrace combatant than a terrorist and as long as he was terminally ill was no longer threat. Just a soldier of a relatively powerless country that had been horribly agrieved."

The airliner was Iranian. There wasn't one Libyan on board. How had Libya been horribly agrieved?

All this talk of christian values vis-a-vis compassion, mercy, etc. does not sound okay from people who have been slaughtering tribals, natives, nomads, et all for the last two thousand years in the name of religion. Forget the maorees of New Zealand or the aboriginals of Australia, christian missionaries in India (while under British rule) have just about killed or forcibly converted millions of Hindu people in the name of Jesus Christ. The funniest part is that these idiots now claim that it was done because they believe that there is no salvation outside the church. So to say that Christian faith preaches mercy, compassion, etc. is a big lump of rubbish. When a Justice Minister talks of mercy, compassion, etc. you know that he is probably on slippery ground and is just trying to extricate himself from a no-hope situation. After it was divulged that CIA had paid a mind boggling sum to a half-literate maltese so as to nail Megrahi, everyone knew that this verdict was going to be overturned, sooner or later. All you guys who are trying to portray Christianity as a faith of mercy, compassion, etc. please shut up. Religion has nothing to do with this case, it is a case of a Minister doing his job, that is, saving his Government from emminent embarasssment. Anyway, in the last fifty-sixty years also the world had seen the modern face of compassion, mercy vis-a-vis christianity in Germany, South Africa, Rhodesia, Yogoslavia, etc. Forget religion, lets talk politics, oil, etc.

fr thozmaniac:
>...I've lived in Scotland and they simply do not like Americans.
I had to wear a Canadian flag t-shirt to simply exist there.
If they thought or suspected that I was an American I would have been beaten up without a doubt.
Um, just to remind you, Canada IS part of North America. A Canadian IS an American. Might want to pull out that geography textbook from grade school.

-------------------------------------------

I wrote what I experienced and being a former Marine have traveled the globe.
I know that Canada is part of the Americas Einstein.
You must be stupid.

And for those blaming me for my experiences living in Scotland, screw you,
I don't lie and you weren't there.
God how liberal's are idiots!

They think they know it all! Hhahaha!

For those who keep insisting that "life means life", um, it doesn't in Britain. Life means around 25 years, this guy was sentenced to 27 years -- though I'm guessing that wouldn't have appeased those demanding revenge and retribution either.

They did the right thing. If you must complain - remember how mean you seem to be.

Fate1 wrote,

"The US was protecting shipping in an area that had a high level of tension and military vessels due to the Iran-Iraq war. Iranians were stopping ships and inspecting them and interfering in international trade. Tensions were very high, and a fighter heading toward the Vincennes was something to be worried about under the circumstances. Read a little."

Listen.......You Moron!, If you are telling us that your soldiers are so stupid that they cannot tell a slow moving passenger airliner from a supersonic jet, they should be cleaning sewers in Kansas not made incharge of deadly weaponry to murder innocent civilians.

Even if it were a mistake (I certainly doubt it.......we've heard that excuse from the Israelis many times), weren't you disgusted with your government honoring this act by Medals and Honours? Where is your humanity for the innocent women and children who died in IR655.

"A Canadian IS an American."

So is a Mexican or a person from Brazil.

But they will say "I do not want it to be."

@Fate1 - I hope we can agree that we would both like to see the world live in peace and justice.

But for that to happen justice has to be applied equally to everyone. That is the lesson of Northern Ireland.

You appear to think America has some sort of special dispensation to break all the rules though. Sadly you are very wrong as your politicians as becoming more and more aware every time they deal with other countries and are met with suspicion and resentment.

The UK is one of your few remaining allies. Don't keep pushing us away.

"Listen.......You Moron!"

You want it both ways? If they can listen - they may not be so stupid. If there are stupid, then why communicate?

Perhaps it works both ways. You all be stupid. But don't look to me for enlightment.

AHepburn,

I understand and agree with your comments, but the X factor for me is the fact that the Koran DOES teach that the killing of "infidels" is "good" in sight of Allah and that the guy is terminally ill. Unfortunately in some cases (not all), we have seen how religious beliefs can manifest themselves in a person who knows he or she is on borrowed time (and facing the prospect of a slow, painful death)...

THOZMANIC:
I wrote what I experienced and being a former Marine have traveled the globe.
I know that Canada is part of the Americas Einstein.
You must be stupid.
----------------------
No, you wrote blatant ridiculous lies.

If anything an American in Scotland would be likely to be met with a great deal of friendliness and interest.

If you really came here, which I doubt, and experienced otherwise I'm more than sure it was down to aspects of your personal behaviour and attitude and nothing to do with your nationality.

Do you have any conception of how many Scots holiday in the USA every year? Or how many Americans vacation here? You have no clue what you are talking about.

@PCPATTERSON - I'm no expert on the Koran so I won't comment on what it says. But there has never been any suggestion that Megrahi, if guilty, was motivated by religion.

What you are suggesting is like saying that every murderer or thief who happens to be a Muslim is religiously-motivated. It is possible to be a Muslim and a common criminal as well!

This was the day that Scotland should be proud of. The Scottish government made a decision that the knew would be unpopular with certain nations yet did what they believed to be correct. Bully boy tactics did not work and the British government should take heed that is does not have to appease the USA (how many years ago did we finish paying the WW2 war debt to USA ?)
The USA is pursuing a mentally handicapped Scot for extradition, for a crime committed in the UK and still detains Guantanemo Bay suspects without trial, they have no place trying to interfere in Scots law.
The Scots have given the world lots to be grateful for TV, Telephone, Tarmac, Pneumatic Tyres, US Navy ?,penecillan to name a few ,add to that compassion for a dying man on an unsecure but popular conviction.
Is Scotland a country ? some idiot asked, get a passport and visit and you will find a small proud nation with plenty underneath the kilt.

This was the day that Scotland should be proud of. The Scottish government made a decision that the knew would be unpopular with certain nations yet did what they believed to be correct. Bully boy tactics did not work and the British government should take heed that is does not have to appease the USA (how many years ago did we finish paying the WW2 war debt to USA ?)
The USA is pursuing a mentally handicapped Scot for extradition, for a crime committed in the UK and still detains Guantanemo Bay suspects without trial, they have no place trying to interfere in Scots law.
The Scots have given the world lots to be grateful for TV, Telephone, Tarmac, Pneumatic Tyres, US Navy ?,penecillan to name a few ,add to that compassion for a dying man on an unsecure but popular conviction.
Is Scotland a country ? some idiot asked, get a passport and visit and you will find a small proud nation with plenty underneath the kilt.

Snuff them out until not one ember is aglow. Mercy reaches a point of diminished returns. Love has no such limits. Never show love or mercy for a mass murder or you get another Hitler or Stalin. We just have another Hussein, so it's all the same mess over and over again. We ended up with Iraq and a growing and expensive mess. Nobody wants to clean up. I need to get out on the big green tractor. Keep the Faith and I'll cut the grass here.

ahepburn wrote: "You appear to think America has some sort of special dispensation to break all the rules though. Sadly you are very wrong as your politicians as becoming more and more aware every time they deal with other countries and are met with suspicion and resentment."

You continually equate the accidental downing of an airliner during heightened tensions in a war zone with the premediated downing of an airliner. Don't expect me to ever agree with that comparison. No sane person would.

ahepburn wrote: "The UK is one of your few remaining allies. Don't keep pushing us away."

And visa versa my friend. If you want to be friends with the Libyans, well, you've seen firsthand how mass murder is in their approved toolbox. If you want to be friends with the Iranian government, you've seen how they treat their own people, imagine how nicely they would treat you. And if you want to hate America that is fine, we're use to it, but don't forget who will come bail the Brits out again when threatened, without question.

Being a Christian, I’m torn on this one. I personal didn’t lose anyone on that flight, but I did lose a co-worker who was on board with his son, his new daughter-in-law, brother, sister-in-law and their new baby. I know the devastation that this man caused. So part of me is angry that he is being allow to return home because he is terminally ill. Why should he be afforded this when he didn’t even show a thought for the 270 innocent people on that flight? But the Bible does tell me that vengeance is the Lords, not mine, so that part of me does understand that we should have mercy for this man. I can only pray that what God has in store for him is far worst than him being allowed to die alone in prison.

How about his family buys plane tickets to Scotland so that they can say goodbye to him while he is in jail? That way they too can play the odds of getting on a doomed flight.

The hypocrisy of America and Americans is breathtaking.

I am a Protestant, Unionist form Northern Ireland, and we had to suffer the sight of convicted Irish republican terrorists being let out of prison. These same Irish terrorists are now part of community activity groups, still as determined as ever to eradicate my community.

Sean Kelly was one of these IRA terrorists released early. Sean Kelly an IRA terrorist was let out of prison after being convicted of killing 9 innocent Protestant Unionist shoppers, including children, pensioners, and families with a bomb in a fish shop on the Shankill Road. With the full endorsement of the US administration and Irish America, this IRA killer was released from prison after only serving seven years of his life sentence for killing 9 innocent Protestant Unionist shoppers.

So USA your victims are no more important than the victims of Irish republican terrorists, so stop crying and stop interfering in other peoples conflicts!

Terrorist should be shot on sight that includes Irish republican terrorists.

@Fate1

You KNOW that if the USA had been on the receiving end of an IranAir 655 style attack it would have responded very violent. You KNOW that. We all do.

And you still haven't acknowledged that the families of those victims have every bit as much right to anger as the families of PanAm 103.

And you still haven't acknowledged that a mistake which costs other peoples' lives usually results in manslaughter charges. The crew of the Vincennes were not punished in any way.

If you can't see the double standards in your stance then I have to seriously question your intellect and your honesty.

As for "our" friendship with the Libyans, I suggest you look to the actions of GW Bush - it was he who broug Gaddafi in from the cold, not any British leader. You may also want to look at the American companies now making lots of money in Libya.

I don't hate America. I have never said I hated America. I've been there several times. I deal with Americans all the time online.

The problem is the vitriolic hatred for Britain and now Scotland, that Americans have filled the internet with over the last few weeks. I have been desperately trying to get you to look at your own behaviour and make you think "Hang on a minute, if this is the sort of relationship we have with our closest allies what on earth must the rest of the world think?"

Please. Ask yourself that question.

l like the old days when we would let someone guy out then sic a CIA agent on em do away with them. They should free him over the North Sea like his victims

Mercy is Biblical but is it right? I can't stop laughing! Then pray tell you are not a religious person. There should be no doubt about the mercy extended to this dying man. He would not have been released otherwise. Maybe you can grind him into salt after he dies and that would satisfy your revenge and spite.

GaryEMasters,

"Perhaps it works both ways. You all be stupid. But don't look to me for enlightment."

That post wasn't addressed to you. Are you using two different monikers on this message board? that would be wierd. Anyways......yea to me the racists who thinks the lives of 270 white people are more precious than 290 Iranians (both dying as result of terroristic activities) will remain a moron. Give me a good reason that the Americans who gave these criminals Legions of Merit have a moral high ground wrt to the Libyans cheering Al Megrahi home, and ill take my word back.

When did the USA bail out Britain ? I hope this is not a reference to WW2. The nazis would still be ruling Europe today if Britain had not fought so glouriously to defend her shores. The USA did not win WW1 or WW2 the allied forces from all over the world came together to defeat evil. Hollywood films only portray what the USA wants and not what really happened. Are Hollywood films shown in USA schools as history lessons is this the problem ?
Well done Ranger1640 the americans seem to forget that thier politicians actively raised money for terroists.

ahepburn wrote: "Please. Ask yourself that question."

Look, you make a hypothetical and answer it then use YOUR answer to blame us for YOUR hypothetical response. Sorry, I'm not buying it. America did not plant a bomb on board flight 655. America never intended to shoot down a civilian airliner. If you think they did then you start with a flase premise.

And if you ever think a sane person would equate the accidental downing of 655 with the premeditated downing of 103 then I'm not sure how to get through to you. They are about as equivalent as a trafic accident and a cold blooded murder. Do you equate those two things as well? In both cases there are grieving families. Both grieve but that does not make the situations equivalent. The Libyans committed premediated murder and today they celebrate the murderer. How can anyone equate that with not punishing someone involved in an accident?

Scary how similar the fringe left (who are all about releasing these guys) and Islamic terrorists seem to be:

1) Both have a complete and indoctrinated belief in being victims of the US and use that 'humiliation' to justify any means necessary to attack the 'great satan.'
2) Because of their indoctrination and self-righteousness, they both are completely deaf to others and ignore, violently at times, any attempts whatsoever at dissent or reason.
3) Any even feeble attempt to shine light on their errant ways is met with the most violent and aggressive accusations of bias and subsequent name calling : for the terrorists, Islamophobic, anti-Islam etc, for the fringe left, racism, greedy, xenophobic and the like.
4) Both are completely and totally incapable of seeing the prolific failures of themselves, but happily blame all problems on the US itself.

It makes sense, it explains the left's ability to 'understand' why so many 'hate us' and why 'we bring terrorist attacks upon ourselves;' it explains why so many in the left believe 9/11 was inside job, "hey those guys can't be 'that bad,' but America, it knows no depths...'

The self-loathing, entitled, taking for granted all the prosperity, opportunities, stablility, and security of the US, whiny, and hypocritical left ultimately always loses, but not after they have tried to damn each and every person who disagrees with them and the very nation which has given them everything.

Fate1, a lot of people make the same connection.

The USS Vincennes was not a car that happened to crash into some people by accident.

It was a vessel of war, 6000 miles from home and its actions cost the lives of 290 civilians.

What would happen to a car driver in the USA if he "accidentally" killed a large number of pedestrians? Would he just walk away from it? He certainly wouldn't in the UK.

And why couldn't the US even APOLOGISE for it? If I knocked down and killed a pedestrian an apology is the very least I would be expected to make.

If there was evidence that the guy was a scapegoat or railroaded just to pacify the US...then MacAskill should have stated clearly that he was releasing Megrahi because there were doubts about the case and he didn't want to risk letting a possibly innocent man die in prison. Simple as that. That wouldn't pacify those who are convinced of Megrahi's guilt, but at least the principle is one most people can understand and sympathize with.

As is, he stated clearly his belief that the case was good, that justice was done, and that he was releasing Megrahi because he felt sorry for him. In essence, f**k the victims, f**k their loved ones, we're going to do the right thing by the perpetrator cuz if we don't we're just as bad as the terrorists.

What a freakin' tool...

As long as America continues to protect terrorists like Luis Posada Carriles to the point where he will NOT EVEN FACE TRIAL, I think all the outrage expressed here is hypocritical at best. Just another example of American zealots wishing to have THEIR law imposed on the rest of the world. Why on earth any discussion of this matter takes place in the context of a 'religious' column is also baffling -- until, that is, one remembers that EVERY issue has a religious angle in America.

I disagree with MANY criminal justice pronouncements that come out of America, but I realize and understand that it is not my country and NOT MY BUSINESS. Perhaps Americans should fix their own dismal criminal justice system before telling Scotland how to run its.

And fate1, remember, it doesn't really matter what you or I think about what happened to IranAir 655. What matters is what the friends and families of the victims thought and what their governments thought (Iran, UAE, India, Pakistan, Yugoslavia and Italy).

It only takes one person to decide they won't accept what happened and start to organise a response.

You may not like it but the original investigators at Lockerbie believed the bombing was retaliation for Iran Air 655. A lot of people still believe that - not just kooks and cranks, but politicians, law enforcement officials, members of victims' families.

colin29 wrote: "When did the USA bail out Britain ? I hope this is not a reference to WW2. The nazis would still be ruling Europe today if Britain had not fought so glouriously to defend her shores. The USA did not win WW1 or WW2 the allied forces from all over the world came together to defeat evil."

Wow still a touchy subject over there. Well yea, WW2, lend-lease, and 10s of thousands of American soldiers buried in Europe. No one questions Britian standing up to Hitler and its valiant fight alone for years, but you could not have defeated Hitler unless we entered the war with you, not to mention providing provisions which cost us many a merchant ship before we even entered the war thank you. But that was not my point. My point was that no matter what the Brits think of the USA, the USA will always be there for the Brits.

colin29 wrote: "Well done Ranger1640 the americans seem to forget that thier politicians actively raised money for terroists."

Yes, and as an Irish American who traces his American roots back to a great great great grandafter who left during the famine, its not one of our more proud moments. We're not perfect, but we don't celebrate mass murders either.

Why do so many Americans believe that mercy is something that must be earned? By setting a standard for forgiveness we allow a loophole for hanging on to our hatred and denying grace. Do we not see that mercy is something to be offered from the heart? If it cannot be offered, it says more about the state of your own heart than the other person, deserving or not.

@Telesonic - we've already dealt with this. The appeals process had already started. Megrahi had two choices - continue with it and die in prison before it completed or drop the appeal and be released on compassionate grounds. Those were the two options available. MacAskill had to tread a fine line to remain within the terms of the original agreements - hence his rejection of the prisoner transfer option.

MacAskill certainly came across as pious windbag who talks too much but he was choosing his words very carefully.

RE: Posted by: telesonic | August 21, 2009 3:11 PM

"As is, he stated clearly his belief that the case was good, that justice was done, and that he was releasing Megrahi because he felt sorry for him. In essence, f**k the victims, f**k their loved ones, we're going to do the right thing by the perpetrator cuz if we don't we're just as bad as the terrorists."

In other words, anyone who disagrees with your notions of vengeance, retribution and compassion is wrong and simply a tool. I think most adults call that "thinking with blinders on." Presumably you have some evangelical pastor's fatwa backing you up too.

Fate1 wrote

My point was that no matter what the Brits think of the USA, the USA will always be there for the Brits.
-------------------
I don't know. Maybe there's a failure of communication here. Maybe you can explain it to me.

I've spend the last two days reading all sorts of hateful posts from Americans (not all of you thankfully) about what a horrible country Scotland is, calling us weak, terrorist appeasers, stingy oil-traders and everything else in betwen.

Last week I spent several days reading about how we British are Nazi, evil, Orwellian socialists for having universal healthcare. The web was full of comments from individual Americans saying truly vile things about our country.

Note: it was not Britons saying these things about the USA.

We are simply dumbfounded. We thought we were friends. Our troops have fought alongside yours for decades and are doing so right now in Afghanistan. We have exchanged immigrants for centuries. We vacation in each others' countries by the million every year. We study in each others' universities.

We do not hate the US. We are just very much starting to get the feeling that the US does hate us and we simply don't understand what is going through your heads.

For the first time i'm ashamed to be a Scot. I'm ashamed that the Locherbie bomber was allowed to go home to a heroes welcome . What a sham , Scottish soltire flags being waved in Libya . For gods sake !!
I thought we stood side by side with the US on the war on terror . Scottish regiments and airmen in the British Forces are fighting and dying in Afganistan daily whilst a politician delivers a diplomatic boot in the teeth to our ally -USA .
I will have to phone my relatives in Florida this weekend and will probably end up saying sorry about this mess . 90% of the Scottish people I know think what happened was a disgrace , I hope they remember that when we next go to the polls in election . Sick to the back teeth !!!

Cold war warrior - at least have the decency to admit that opinion is very much more split than you claim.

why is this in a religious article rather than a legal article? Keep your "religious" issues in church please and keep legal discussions in the secular world where they belong.

"but you could not have defeated Hitler unless we entered the war with you" so it was up to Britain to fight Hitler ?
How valient of the USA to help us ?
When other countries were invaded we helped them almost immediately but it takes the US 3 years to realise and join in the fight for freedom. We did not need to defeat Hitler he was desperate to do a deal with the UK for peace but we would never have accepted it. The help from the US was a moral obligation to stop the halocust and restore freedom to mainland europe not the free UK.
The downing of flight 103 was a direct retaliation to the shooting down of the Iran Air fight by the US Navy.(Anybody ever prosocuted for this ?)When 9/11 happen the US very quickly invaded Iraq and Afganistan (along with the UK)was this not a similar response.
As an ex RAF pilot and soldier I was told on more than one occasion by senior US pilots that the scariest momements of their career was flying over the US Navy.

ahepburn wrote: "The USS Vincennes was not a car that happened to crash into some people by accident. It was a vessel of war, 6000 miles from home and its actions cost the lives of 290 civilians."

And it had every right to be where it was protecting shipping due to hostile Iranian actions. This is the part you continually ignore.

ahepburn wrote: "What would happen to a car driver in the USA if he "accidentally" killed a large number of pedestrians? Would he just walk away from it? He certainly wouldn't in the UK."

Depends on the situation. Was the driver drunk, was he insane, did he fall asleep, did he intend to kill the people? Or was there fog, was someone threatening him, was it an accident?

ahepburn wrote: "And why couldn't the US even APOLOGISE for it? If I knocked down and killed a pedestrian an apology is the very least I would be expected to make."

Reparations were paid to the Iranian's satisfaction in the ICOJ. If you had a friend who killed someone in an auto accident would you hound him to apologize over and over again when he believes he did not cause the accident? Remember the Iranians created the hostile situation by threatening shipping in the gulf. They did not have to do this but they did, and so we were there to protect shipping. An accident happened. Is one side only at fault? You keep mentioning that the Vincennes was 6000 miles from home yet you do not seem to know why it was there. Try reading this:
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=11451

Has every moron on planet Earth showed up to post here about the USS Vincennes? Aside from the fact that approaching a navy vessel at sea clearly involves a different set of circumstances -- under rules which are clear and observed by every navy on planet Earth and every commercial craft on planet Earth -- there's also another important fact which maroons posting here haven't considered: We didn't the captain or crew of the ship a hero's welcome when they arrived home. Wow... the morons posting here are about as thick as flies on this message board. And I mean "thick" in more ways than one...

SRB2: the captain and crew were given medals. No one was reprimanded.

Fate & SRB2: just for one moment imagine that you are a relative of one of the victims of Iran Air 655. How do you think you would feel? Just try.

It's not like we're just bringing up the Vincennes to stir things up or illustrate the moral dubiousness of US policy. If I wanted to do that there are plenty of worse examples, such as the war in Iraq.

The reason people keep bringing it up is that the original investigation into Lockerbie believed it was in retaliation for Iran Air 655. There was a lot of evidence for this, some of which I believe was to be brought up at Megrahi's appeal. A great many people over here still believe that is what happened.

there's also another important fact which maroons posting here haven't considered: We didn't the captain or crew of the ship a hero's welcome when they arrived home. Wow... the morons posting here are about as thick as flies on this message board. And I mean "thick" in more ways than one...

SRB2

Did you mean morons ? because in Scotland maroon means its your turn to buy the drinks or is a colour.

Or are you the one who is thick in more ways than one.

ahepburn wrote: "I don't know. Maybe there's a failure of communication here. Maybe you can explain it to me.
I've spend the last two days reading all sorts of hateful posts from Americans (not all of you thankfully) about what a horrible country Scotland is, calling us weak, terrorist appeasers, stingy oil-traders and everything else in betwen."

Yea, well, there's a debate going on over here about our broken health care system, well, not the system of health care itself, just how it gets paid for, health insurance obatined through employment, which stops if you lose a job, treatments not allowed by some insurers, etc. In other words, over here how health care is paid for is a mess and then some.

Now Obama is trying to get the mess cleaned up. He wants our Congress to legislate what insurers can do and to cover everyone. But his loyal opposition has taken to extremes to paint what he is doing as communistic, a total takeover of health care, euthanasia panels set up to kill the elderly, etc. And believe it or not, some people are buying this. These people also paint the Brit and other health plans as socialistic with their own "death panels" even though Europeans tend to live longer and have lower infant mortality, but they don't let the facts get in the way of the fear. They must attack your NHS because it works and they don't want it here though Obama is not talking about an NHS, that doesn't matter either.

Please understand this is a small number of people spouting this stuff, confusing many others. The few of us who know what is going on are just as mystified as you. Please don't take it personally. Think of it as the ravings of the disturbed brother of a good friend.

ahepburn wrote: "We do not hate the US. We are just very much starting to get the feeling that the US does hate us and we simply don't understand what is going through your heads."

Yea, well we're wondering about these people too. Since they are spouting the eact same words and slogans we're pretty sure its coordinated, coming from groups that use lies to promote agendas. As the lies are exposed (most have already been) it should calm down.

for Ahepburn
I'm not sure on your position from your comments
If you think I'm wrong about public opinion here in Scotland take a look at some of the newspaper headlines here .
Libya or USA ? Chose between them
Okay I personally stand beside, behind and with America on this issue . In 1986 I saw the F-111's leave here to cross gadifis line of death . I live in Scotland I saw the Locherbie aftermath . I saw the moon crater where the fuselage hit . I'll never forget it . The man should never have been allowed to return to Libya . We have cancer hospices here , I would have allowed him that mercy . Still sick to the back teeth

Telesonic wrote: "If there were evidence that the guy was a scapegoat ..." There is plenty of evidence that he was a scapegoat and that Ghaddfi personally ordered the "terrorist" act as vengeance for the killing of his wife and children in an assassination attempt by the U.S. some years back. There is evidence that Al-meghri was in the chain of command of the operation, and his release was part of the deal wherein Libya paid some (small) reparations to the families (which they were forced to accept as settlement of claims). I wouldn't be surprised if he lives another twenty years with prostate cancer. This whole thing is political. Compassion has nothing to do with it.

"why is Obama silent on this issue??? Why is he not defending the American victims of this horrible crime? Posted by: grace22tangera"

Perhaps he is silent because the whole action is out of his hands. Secretary of State Clinton certainly provided the official U. S. position, that we regretted the decision. there is little more to be said, except that, perhaps, since Libya is still obviously at war with us, no more Libyan visas to The U. S. and cancel all visas now in effect.

What the Magistrate DID expose is the obvious difference between Scots Presbyterian Christianity and Libyan fundamentalist Islam. The Scots sent a dying man home to die with his family, and the Libyans treated him to a hero's welcome. It tells me all I need to know about Bedouin religious fervor. Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill gave a man presumed mercy, and Libya used the occasion to give Scotland and the world the middle finger.

We can wait another decade or so before we think about improving our relations with that ungenerous country.

Fate1 - re healthcare, I realise there is a debate going on in the USA, and ultimately whatever we in the UK might think about it, it's up to Americans to decide what they want to do. We probably wouldn't have paid much attention if Palin, Fox news etc hadn't called us Nazis. Even then we would probably have shaken our heads and ignored it, but what really upset us was that chatrooms and forums across the internet seemed to be full of Americans saying absolutely vile things about us. Perhaps we were collateral damage in an internal US political conflict, but I can't imagine a situation where high-profile UK politicians called the US "Nazi" or "evil". I'm not sure I can even imagine a situation where a large proportion of the UK public would countenance such opinions either.

I take your point about these people not being representative. I hope you're right. As I said previously, I've been to the US several times and always found the people there amazingly polite and friendly (much more so than in the UK).

I know I've come across as angry in this discussion, and I am because my country's name has been dragged through the gutter by our own politicians (at Scottish and UK level) and by countless people online who suddenly seem to hate Scotland for no reason in particular.

That has had an effect on my posts, for which I apologise. Do not think for a moment that I hate the US or support Libya, Iran or terrorists. I want justice for the victims of PanAm 103. I just don't believe it's as black and white as some other people do and I want to make sure we really do find out what happened and who was responsible and in an ideal world ensure everyone responsible faces justice.

ahepburn wrote: "The reason people keep bringing it [Vincennes incident] up is that the original investigation into Lockerbie believed it was in retaliation for Iran Air 655. There was a lot of evidence for this, some of which I believe was to be brought up at Megrahi's appeal. A great many people over here still believe that is what happened."

Yea, well, to bring up the car analogy what happened was America ran into an Iranian car and accidently killed people and a distant cousin of an Iranian decided to get back at the Americans by blowing up a car full of Americans.

You cannot compare the two incidents nor expect the families of the Iranans to approve of mass murder to avenge an accident. If you do then you excuse murder. If the Iranians feel the Americans did it on purpose, well, we can't control what they think, but there is a lot of evidence as to what happened, there is little that is not known, mistakes happened on both sides, it was an accident.

What Libya did was premeditated mass murder. How you can confuse the two, or allow one to justify the other I really haven't a clue. In the UK, if someone kills another person they believe murdered a family member but it was ruled an accident, do the UK police excuse the murderer? I hope not. And does the murder put additional blame on those involved in the accident that led to the murder?

ColdWarWarrior - newspapers all have agendas of their own and this is a great chance to put the boot into the SNP (which is fine, since I don't support them ;)). From what I have heard from friends and from other Scots online opinion is rather more mixed.

Would I rather support the US or Libya? No question, the US.

Do I believe Megrahi was guilty of this crime? I'm not sure. The evidence against him was really, really dodgy and there is evidence that this was an Iranian / Syrian plot not a Libyan one.

I would much rather his appeal had gone ahead and then maybe we could have found out what really happened. Now there will be no appeal, the dodgy political deals will not be uncovered, our oil companies will continue to trade with Libya, Libya will continue to be an ex-terrorist state.

Too many people had too much to lose if an appeal or investigation went ahead.

ahepburn wrote: "I know I've come across as angry in this discussion, and I am because my country's name has been dragged through the gutter by our own politicians (at Scottish and UK level) and by countless people online who suddenly seem to hate Scotland for no reason in particular."

I've stated I have no issue with the Scottish decision. My issue is with the Libyans who as someone else appropriately said, returned Scottish mercy with a middle finger. I'm ready for sanctions. We don't need them to kill someone for us to retaliate economically. Hopefully something will happen, behind the scenes so it doesn't blow up into a full media circus.

And don't pay too much attention to the idiots over here. They've always been here, unwilling to use their brain or think anything through. They listen to talk radio religiously as though those idiots have a clue. And don't take the Nazi name calling too seriously, they're calling Obama a Nazi too because Hitler had a nationalized health care system. Of course he also built the autobaun but you don't see these Americans not driving on our federal highways or burning their VWs. Like I said, they're just the deranged brother of a good friend. They supported Bush, which ought to give you a clue about them.

Oh, and to say something nice about Scotland, I've never been there but I watched a show about scotch and how its made, different types, etc. After that I bought a bottle and my neighbor, who has his own stock, came over and we had a taste test. Any people who make such a fine drink must be good people.

Fate1 wrote "My issue is with the Libyans who as someone else appropriately said, returned Scottish mercy with a middle finger. I'm ready for sanctions. We don't need them to kill someone for us to retaliate economically. Hopefully something will happen, behind the scenes so it doesn't blow up into a full media circus"
I agree, their response was an insult. I know that various diplomatic measures are being taken by the UK already and I presume by the US. (Prince Andrew has even cancelled a visit - that'll show them). But we nevertheless have a fine line to tread. We don't want to push Gaddafi back into the arms of the terrorists.

Anyway, it's getting late here so I'm going to sign off now. I'm glad we could come to some sort of understanding in the end.

Showing compassion should mean housing prisoners in humane conditions. Allowing a few visits, allowing them access to fresh air, etc. Not letting a mass murderer walk away Scot-free (pun intended). All this does is give liberals and so-called bleeding-hearts a bad name -- after all, you can be both liberal and compassionate without showing this level of disrespect for the victims' families. If Scotland is trying to set some sort of humanitarian example and show the world how civil they are, it's backfiring. Everyone just thinks they're applauding this murderer's actions.

Ahepburn
Megrahi was a convicted mass murderer , he commited the greatest mass murder in Scotland , the UK if not the world . He was allowed to return home to a heroes welcome . Thats hard to bear
My national flag is then waved in tripoli to welcome him ,thats hard to bear
Kenny Macaskill made a decision based on mercy and the US government and a lot of people in the US then have an opinion that my country is a dud , thats very hard to bear . I'm not an SNP supporter and this issue goes beyond our local politics .
My frustrations in this matter are hopefully evident to all .
PS thanks for the blog , I'm off to my bed now ,its late here and NCIS is on .

Read in Laurence Rees' new book on the WWII leaders how Churchill ignored the Katyn killings of Polish officers in order to keep Stalin smiling. In England nichts neues!

For all of our blessings here in the United States - wealth and freedom, rights to bear arms, right to trial, access to health care, education, the pursuit of happiness - our greatest challenge is to be merciful.

We speak so much about our fore fathers' intentions to follow and be guided by "God", but we act compassionately and humbly only when it is easy to do. Only when we know our might has been unchallenged or we stand with the "majority" of same belief citizens.

To forgive - or not to forgive - will be our greatest challenge. Especially when, especially when, we have lost loved ones.

"He gave his only son".

I believe WE are not yet that strong.

And if we, in my life time I shall say, do not begin to stop being the bully of the world, we will go by the way of the Romans, the Turks, even the British when their self-rightous expansion was stopped.

We will fold in on ourselves. Even when England, no I will say especially when England, chose to unite church leadership with government of their people and let the "chosen church" be judge and jury what followed was the unintended result - their own execution.

Thank you, Mr. MacAskill.

Posted by: Kansas28 | August 21, 2009 12:36 AM

"What I do not understand is why this man was not sentenced to death eight years ago.

We have all known of many, many people who have heard from a doctor the words: "You have two months (or whatever number) to live," only to live a long and productive life.

This decision was insane."

And...if the plane had been full of abortionists and the fellow was tried in Kansas he probably would have gotten off scot-free and been awarded a medal. Why do Americans think their law should govern EVERYONE on earth?

And when will Luis Posada Carriles be extradited from the US to stand trial for his bombing and murder of innocent civilians?????

Dear COLIN29,

In the United States, "maroon", said with a certain inflection, is a sarcastic way of saying "moron". Just as "thick" is a sarcastic way of saying, "COLIN29".

look out all you Asian Americans it looks like the good old god fearing Christian boys could be getting their best white sheets and pointy hats out to show you how religion works in America
as long as they have someone to whoop and call them massa they are happy

"To those good Americans who are concerned with the mote in thy Scottish brother's eye, I would ask what justice would be appropriate to the captain of the U.S. Vincennes that shot down Iranian flight 655 with its 290 lives?
Posted by: roger27"

Anti-American Leftists such as yourself, Roger 27, ignore facts. The Vincennes shot down the Iranian plane in acordance with ROE. THe reviews showed the crew operated properly.
The shoot down happened a few months after the Stark, and after several shooting battles with the Basinji and use of Iranian civilian craft to try and penetrate American carrier group air defense.
The shootdown actually happened right in the middle of a naval engagement between the Vincennes and 3 Iranian gunboats, started with an Iranian attack on the Vincennes helicopter and sister ship. As the Vincennes jammed the Islamoid's missile systems and dodged a few launched blind, they had sunk two of the gunboats with 5" naval gun and were fighting the 3rd when the radars picked up an unannouced by air controller flight headed right for them. The planes transponder and IFF transmitters were turned off. (Required on Gulf civilian air planes) The plane was identified as a likely F-14. The plane then ignored 3 emergency hails and was shot at when 9 miles from the Vincennes, destroyed 6 miles from the Americans.

Tough. These things happen in war. Like when Marines in battle engage a house firing machine guns and RPGs at them and kill the Islamoid wives and kids in the house at the same time.

***A far cry from a Libyan deliberately putting a bomb on a civilian airliner he know was harmless***

The Vincennes got medals for the engagement. By the book. The US Navy admitted they needed to work on the Aegis system to better distinguish type of craft by contact and do additional radar operator training.
And they compensated the Iranians for the loss of the civilians, but not the gunboat crews they were shooting and destroying at the same moment.

The son of a SAS hero was one of the latest British soldiers to be killed in Afghanistan, it has emerged.
Serjeant Paul McAleese, 29, of 2nd Battalion The Rifles, died alongside Private Jonathan Young, 18, of 3rd Battalion The Yorkshire Regiment, in Helmand province on Thursday, said the Ministry of Defence.
Sjt McAleese's father, John McAleese, was at the centre of the dramatic raid which ended a siege on the Iranian Embassy, in London, in 1980.
He was watched by millions of television viewers as windows were blown out moments before the building was stormed and 19 hostages rescued from fanatical gunmen.
The deaths took to 206 the number of UK troops killed in the conflict.
Meanwhile, the bodies of four soldiers killed in a weekend of violence in Afghanistan have been flown back to Britain.
Sergeant Simon Valentine, 29, was returned to RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire beside Lance Corporal James Fullarton, Fusilier Simon Annis and Fusilier Louis Carter, all of 2nd Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.
The coffins were carried from the C17 plane before a private service was held at the base's chapel.
People paid tribute as the hearses were driven through the streets of Wooton Bassett, Wiltshire.
Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said: "These three brave soldiers have made the ultimate sacrifice to ensure the security of all of us in the United Kingdom. Their deaths are truly heart rending and their families are in my thoughts; the loved ones they have lost are true heroes."
LEAST WE FORGET

The man is dying so God/Allah has sentenced him already. That said, he could have died in prison and satisfied the demands of justice. Loving kindness in Micah 6:8 follows doing justice rather than leading it.

Few remember William Callery Jr. who killed 104 innocent men/woman/children in Vietam while only serving a few months on house arrest and then freed. Scotland is letting his murder die at home while the US cries no mercy. Well it's interesting how William Callery Jr. not only was given mercy from the US but he served no time in jail for killing 104 people. The US Church and the American people saw no problem with that sentence.

I'm not sure how bombing a commercial airliner out of the sky and a hero's welcome for the mass murderer who did it is warranted and/or justified by atrocities committed at other times, other places and by other people. What a strange and perverted argument.

Using that logic a lot of peeps still have a lot of catching to do with the Germans for Hitler & Co, and with the Japanese for Hirohito and his minions. Oh, and let's not forget Hannibal. And Ghengis Khan. What about the Vikings? Those were some pretty bad asps, eh? There are probably a few planes that need to be brought down over in South East Asia because of Pol Pot's ruthless behavior. Hey, this is fun... easy too!

When will we come to the realization that Muslims are indeed are enemies and the best thing we can do with and for them is to kill as many of them as possible?

Gitmo is starting to make sense ! No, these people are not like you and me. The US is respected...they see Scotland as weak, and vulnerable. That's all.

I'm confused, I'm from Texas, and where we're from we execute rats like this. They swing from trees, days from prosecution. Good day ! God Bless George Bush and the Scots have their own hell.

Besides the willingness of Scotland to follow Scottish law and grant clemency to this individual, there might have been another consideration.

At this time of economic struggles throughout the world and the U.S. focus on shaving health care costs, imagine the savings for the people of Scotland if they could outsource the care of this terminally ill man, with a pre-existing condition, to his native country for hospitalization

"When will we come to the realization that Muslims are indeed are enemies and the best thing we can do with and for them is to kill as many of them as possible?

Posted by: ravitchn | August 21, 2009 7:33 PM
Report Offensive Comment "

Well, you Jews are doing your G_d-Damnedest in Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iran and most any place where the poor helpless and unarmed Souls have something that you cowardly thieves want to steal.

Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com

I saw Obama and Hillary's vehement statement of opposition to what this judge did. However, this guy is old and dying, so what is the point of keeping him in jail any longer? I think Americans are a bit too much into vengence and punishment more then mercy and rehabilitation. We could learn a lesson on this point from the Europeans.

Scottish Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill should take the place of the bomber and be in prison for as long as the bomber lives.

That is what true mercy and justice is.

Posted by: Beckola "The judge's reasoning was execrable. He says the criminal's cancer represents a judgment by a "higher authority." Which of course means that all cancer, and presumably any fatal disease, is a judgment from God"

Nicely spotted. Or you could take the view that the higher authority is, simply, reality.

If you have the time and inclination, read

Our Own Worst Enemy by Norman F. Dixon (Hardcover - 22 Oct 1987)

or

On the Psychology of Military Incompetence (Pimlico) by Norman F. Dixon (Paperback - 6 Jan 1994)

has interesting stuff on the drawbacks of religiosity and, er, castration complexes.

No reflection on any contributor to this thread, of course.

@Laslo:

"Presumably you have some evangelical pastor's fatwa backing you up too."

I'm an atheist, you moron. My idea of compassion involves telling the truth to people who have suffered, not lying to them - and the rest of the world - just to protect your political ass.

Why don't you get off your own high horse before you start whining about mine? Stupid.

THE DOGOODERS WANT TO LET EVERYONE OF THE HOOK WITH THEIR SLAP HANDS POLICY. IT TIME TO DRAW LINES ON THE DOGOODERS. IS ECONMICS AND POLITICS THEIR BACK BONE?

In the United States, "maroon", said with a certain inflection, is a sarcastic way of saying "moron". Just as "thick" is a sarcastic way of saying, "COLIN29

The english language states that maroon is a colour.

SBR2 you are the type of America detested by the world.

The world hates arrogant Americans who think that their way and only their way is correct. Visit other countries, broaden your horizons get some intelligence.

To billbrann
"The US is respected...they see Scotland as weak, and vulnerable. That's all."

Who respects the US outwith the US ? Scotland has shown its strength by releasing this man knowing the critisism it would recieve. Scotland was recently bombed by terrorists but can still find compassion for a dying man with a dubious conviction.

Scotland the land of the brave.

COLIN29 wrote "Scotland has shown its strength by releasing this man"

It shows cowardice in my opinion. Afraid that they will be bombed if they wont release him.

When I read the news that this terrorist was to be released because he is sick--because it is an act of grace to allow him to die in his own country--I accepted it, which would surprise many people that know me, for I can be pretty harsh about this whole Islam compared and contrasted with the West business. But then I saw how he was received by his home country, the Islamic world in general--that he was not received with thanks to the West and in general a stance of respect for this merciful action, but was cheered and essentially received a hero's welcome. A hero's welcome from essentially the same people that say they must not be confused with terrorists, that they are insulted by racial profiling, etc. To me it seems the West is going to have to deal with this Islam thing for a long time. It seems to me they despise us, and despise us all the more that we are merciful--because being merciful puts them in debt, makes them feel they owe the West. In general people do not like to be made to feel they owe something to another person--especially if they are considerably put out in paying back. So we should not play such games of granting this and granting that and being alarmed when our good intentions are not taken positively to heart. This is not to say we should be unnecessarily hard with the Islamic world, but that we should respect basic psychology and have some sort of notion of the end result of actions we take with respect to the Islamic world.

No mercy for a mass murderer?

The My Lai Massacre was the mass murder conducted by a unit of the U.S. Army on March 16, 1968, of between 347 to 504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam, all of whom were civilians and a majority of whom were women, children, and elderly people.

Many of the victims were sexually abused, gang-raped, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.

While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at My Lai, only William Calley was convicted.

Originally sentenced to life imprisonment, his sentence was commuted by President Richard Nixon to three years under House arrest.

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Surely a country which showed such amazing compassion for one mass murderer should forgive another country for showing some compassion?

The conversation here has been quite interesting. Many people are responding to the U.S. citizen's criticisms of Scotland by pointing out moral failures of the U.S. and that perhaps the U.S. should learn from the Scottish example.

In other words, the responses to U.S. criticism of Scotland have been essentially rubbing morality in our faces, taking a superior stance with respect to us. And we, the U.S. citizens should be glad and grateful for being schooled in morality? Of course not. No one wants to be made to feel like a moral failure--people resent that. In general people resent being made to feel they owe something to someone.

And it is quite telling here that people are so quick to rub morality in the U.S.'s face. Telling because releasing the terrorist we are arguing about is supposedly not rubbing morality in the Islamic world's face.

But if the U.S.--the longest lived democracy ever--is displeased in being schooled in morality by the Scottish and Scotland's friends criticizing the U.S., then think how the Islamic world--with of course its deep belief in the Koran--must feel being made to feel morally beholden to Scotland, to in general the West.

The Scottish really think the Islamic world is going to jump up and say "how moral Scotland is"? And is Scotland so arrogant and stupid to think that? As someone once said, it must be a vain person that thinks everyone speaks wittily of him behind his back.

Yes, the Islamic world is just supposed to jump up and praise the infidel for demonstrating a greater sense of morality than the ardent believer in Islam. How thankful the Islamic world must be to be schooled in morality by Scotland. Thankful unlike the U.S. that most immoral country of all, right?

The Scots should perhaps lay off the whiskey. They seem ignorant enough of basic psychology.

If you find it impossible to forgive, than it is impossible for you to enter life eternal. Can not, simply impossible.

If you find it impossible to forgive, than it is impossible for you to enter life eternal. Can not, simply impossible.

POSTED BY: TONY55398
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Too long. You'd do better if instead stated:

"It is impossible to enter life eternal."