SBC's Obama Dilemma

I wonder why these guys think they need an Antichrist when they can speak such bald-faced hatred all on their own.

Souther Baptist were built on the the right to have slaves and they were half a million black Souther Baptist before they denounced slavery?!?!?! (Like is the 80's)

They should simply apologize to the rest of us for following Christianity that in all its forms to include the SBC and "mainline" Christianity is rife with historical and theological errors and flaws.

I think the "anti-Christ" might be a Southern Baptist

Hopefully, Obama learned a lesson from the Randall Terry Republican set up at Notre Dame - avoid the "religious" right and their false flag invitations

I think all this 'anti-christ' stuff, if it ever served a purpose, was supposed to warn people against their own *churches* becoming engines of hate and control calling themselves 'love.'

They were and some still are, claiing the Antichrist would be a black man, they said it was Gorbachev, they said it was Saddam Hussein, all as excuses to try and do the very same things they fear.

When they can no longer get away with the racism, of course they transfer the same hatred and fearmongering to the next group in line: LBGT people.

I don't think it constitutes a change of heart, I think it constitutes a change of *strategy.*

Perhaps, they should simply invite the singular Anti-Christ, the genuine article, he or that which takes so many other forms, and have done with it.
They might then see that the Anti-Christ is not so bad and have another possible guest speaker for years to come.

"I wonder why these guys think they need an Antichrist when they can speak such bald-faced hatred all on their own. "

Your obviously talking about all the gay rights proponents !!!

If Gods coming judgment and Hell is real (which it is ) how much would you have to hate someone NOT to warn them of the truth.

This isn't about 'warnings,' this is about *injustice* right here on Earth, 'Conscience.'

If your God wants you to behave like this, what makes you think there's any Justice in your Heaven?

Do you really think your God says, "Oh, well, lies, injustice, hatred, and abuse are OK by me if you do them to gay people?"

Not much of a God, if you asked me.

Even if your threats of Hell had anything to do with reality for all, that doesn't excuse the things you *do* about it.

It should be other Christians setting you straight on this, and many don't share your hateful views. But here we are.

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""I wonder why these guys think they need an Antichrist when they can speak such bald-faced hatred all on their own. ""

"Your obviously talking about all the gay rights proponents !!!"

Posted by: US-conscience

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Err, no, that's not what's obvious.

See, who I think your Antichrist is, 'US-Conscience,' ...is the "Christ" in your *mind* that has 'turned to the dark side.

Very Anakin Skywalker, really. 'More machine now, than man. Twisted and evil.'

Within your thing, within *you,* not the never ending series of 'others' you try and 'destroy' as if it'll 'bring peace.'

Changing the *targets* of the hatred doesn't mean the hatred isn't the same.

And it is the same hatred, whether the target's been blacks, Irish, Jews, Catholics, or LBGT people.

The same lies: "They're unholy, they're out to get us, it's degrading to consider them human. They're after our children, they carry disease, they want to upset the social order, they're sinners, they deserve our treatment of them, God demands it."

Every time, they're like, "Well, it wasn't true about *this* group, but it obviously *is* true and divine will about the next. Let's start over with the same arguments and oppressions and lies so we can keep hating, ...we need our 'enemies.'"

Fundies are at the point where you think it's OK to *pray for other people to *die,* call it 'Love' ...and accuse *them* of being 'Satanic.'

A lot of you have gotten *backwards:*

Hate is love, oppression is freedom, theocracy is 'liberty,' love is sin, marriage rights lead to promiscuity... Justifying brutality is 'mercy.'

*Backwards.*

*That's* your Antichrist.

Do you really think your God says, "Oh, well, lies, injustice, hatred, and abuse are OK by me if you do them to gay people?"

Absolutely not, God will judge murderers and rapists for sure, but God is so holy and so righteous that it wont stop there, He will judge all thieves, all liars, all blasphemers, all idolators....even more than that, Jesus really opened up the law in his sermon on the mount ( among other places ) where he showed us that God even looks at our thought life and the intentions of the heart. ( looking with lust is adultery in the heart and that hatred is as murder ) - we will give an answer for every idle word we speak and every thought we entertain. Your right about the conscience ( con - means "with", science - means "knowledge" conscience = with knowlege ) God has given us a conscience so no one is without excuse. Every time you lied, stole, lusted because of your conscience, you did it with the knowlege that you were doing wrong. because God has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness, He has commanded each person to repent and because He is abounding in love and mercy, he sent His son to be a propitiation so that who ever repents and puts their faith for forgiveness in what he accomplished on the cross, will be legally acquitted on that great and terrible day. Turn from your wicked life style and towards the great love and forgiveness of God and become a member of His family for eternity while you still have time. Its the greatest offer in the history of the Universe.

I mean, hey, what if the embodiment of your Antichrist *is* a gay man?

A closeted one. Talking exactly like you.

Will hurting gay people help?

In view of President Obama's haste to limit civil liberties, prevent transparency in government, and destroy homosexual rights, it would be surprising and graceless for the Southeren Baptist Convention not to congratulate him.

US-conscience:
"Turn from your wicked life style and towards the great love and forgiveness of God and become a member of His family for eternity while you still have time. Its the greatest offer in the history of the Universe."

If you think I'm *so* selfish that I'd turn around and *lie to everyone around,* *hurt and try to disenfranchise others,* *support turning our Republic into Empire over some Biblical bigotry,* *ignore real brutalities and hardships these things impose,* and deny everything I was made to be this time around...

...For *any* promise of reward, to be cowed by *any* threat of punishment, even if it weren't just your opinion on your own religion, when I have a faith of my own that needs not these things...

You don't understand the Pagan heart, never mind any kind of *morality* at all.

I got a better offer.

See, "Conscience:" (the real meaning of that having much to do with 'Know Thyself,')

'Conscience' does you no good if you are unwilling to look at the effects of your actions. And that's one thing you anti-gay people blind yourselves to with a screen of things from your book. What. You're. Doing. Even the *means* you use.

I'm sure you think, as Augustine said while 'struggling to be chaste' and thinking *women* were demonic, that the 'chief delight' of your Heaven is 'watching the torments of the damned.'

Sounds more like your Hell to me.

My *conscience* says, 'God' is bigger and better than *you,* your hangups, your blindness, your callousness, your hate-speech, your *simple unwillingness to even look what you're doing and how you're doing it.* ...And that on the off chance the Universe, of all possibilities, is so *crazy as you say,*

...Conscience can't allow me to accept your 'offer.' Or its price.

The price *is* my conscience.

Politicians should avoid preachers and prostitutes like the plague. Both are bad news for their political careers.

Congratulate him on what? He hasn't actually done anything of importance other than spend a whole lot of money.

god bless america,america,the top castle for freedom to all world thanks/journalist writer*abdalmalek almaweri

It's difficult for a Christian to criticize another Christian with a different faith-understanding of hypocrisy. In some way all are hypocrites. But the SBC kind is an especially dangerous variety. It encourages hate, fear, and self-righteous judgment, especially of other religions and other Christian points of view.

As a life-long Southern Baptist, it is about time that Southern Baptists realized that politics is something that should be recognized as a way of influencing governance and that all politics is better served by an even-handed approach to it. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have all the answers that Christians seek. This is why the church exists. A return to biblical principles regarding church and state would serve Southern Baptists well. Many, if not most, of us do not want to hear politics being preached from the pulpit.

Great question. Unfortunately, not in the right context. The Southern Baptist and American Baptist church split over one question: slavery. The Southern Baptist's were pro-slavery and the American Baptist's were anti-slavery.

This is FINALLY a good indication of what the Southern Baptist's now believe. I've always found it hard to believe that African-Americans make up such a large portion of the Southern Baptist community while the church they represent had made it so hard for them to arrive at their destination.

If they reject this motion I think it will send a message to the African-American community (whether they understand what it means is something to be discussed at a later date). We must realize that the Southern Baptist church has always been racially aligned and it may always be. This vote is a crucial test to see if we're still living in the 1800's or if the Southern Baptist church has moved beyond its racial politics of the past.

since i'm a gay man, according to the SBC i'm inherently -- from birth? -- "satanic," so i doubt that they'll care what i think. but i'd point out that some of the unborn that they're so eager to protect will surely turn out to be -- imagine! -- gay. will they be satanic already, even at birth? or would it be better for them not to have been born at all? but no, wait -- all life is precious, right? so i guess there are some little gay devils headed our way. i for one wish them godspeed.

as an african-american, i'd also point out that the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" isn't found in the bible, despite the SBC's appropriation of it as a "biblical principle". shouldn't we give jefferson and the founders, though some indeed were slaveholders, a bit of credit for what has turned out to be an at least workable notion? workable, that is, as long as we all keep working at it, without stooping to hate what we didn't and couldn't create -- gay, straight and multi-colored human beings. why can't the SBC wait for judgment day to see what god makes of all of this?

I grew up in a small town in southern Georgia where Vidalia onions are grown. My family was United Methodist and we were in the minority, the majority being Southern Baptists. I was surrounded by "those people" and consequently, exposed to some of their lies and propaganda. At that time their hatred was directed towards not only gay people, but also towards "negroes" as they said then. What possesses them to hate gay people so much I never learned. I was gay but hid it so they had no clue. It was interesting how many of those boys I had adolescent sexual trysts with though. Seems like all the boys who liked to "play" with me were Southern Baptist. Maybe they become rabidly homo-odious when they grow up!

When a personal belief or religious understanding comes in conflict with common sense or modern thinking; regarding issues such as slavery and inequality; a self reliant internal approach to a new understanding is essential irregardless of feelings of hypocrisy or other external feelings.

Acknowledging true equality through personal or religious beliefs based on an inner reliant self, is truly equal thinking irregardless of sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, gender, or other factors limiting our equality, and such thinking should be discarded immediately.

Patrick

US-conscience wrote:

"Absolutely not, God will judge murderers and rapists for sure, but God is so holy and so righteous that it wont stop there, He will judge all thieves, all liars, all blasphemers, all idolater...."
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First of all, you should change your name.

You are most definitely NOT the conscience of the USA and to act like such is arrogance and the act of a liar, a blasphemer, and an idolater.

Second, your 'God' is nothing more than a Bronze-age contrivance that you and people like you use to justify some of the most perverse, most anti-human behavior in history to satisfy your immoral, barbaric blood lust for all those who do not 'believe' as you do.

THEN, after you do the worst things you can think of to others in defense of your 'faith', you simply waddle off to your church and ask *Him* for forgiveness and then get ready to do it all again.

God is really just another word for an endless loop of violent, psychotic, inhuman idiocy.

Some days it is quite depressing to realize just how long it's actually going to take to wash people like you out of the gene pool.

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It would be hypocritical for the Southern Baptists to congratulate President Obama, but then it is hypocritical and fundamentalistally dishonest of them to consider themselves followers of Jesus' teachings anyhow.

But they should certainly send him a thank-you note and an apology. After all, he did pick Rick Warren to preach at his inauguration, even though Warren was a disciple of a president of the Southern Baptist Convention who actively condoned the use of thugs to prevent the integration of churches and because Obama continues to send hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars a year to groups that hire only Christians of acceptable theology.

This need not present an either/or situation; rather, it can provide an opportunity for the SBC to take a stand on, and lead its members in a mature and civil discussion of, many issues confronting our society.

At the same time that it celebrates "the historic nature of the election of President Barack Hussein Obama as a significant contribution to the ongoing cause of racial reconciliation in the United States," the resolution might also include praise for the president on those issues--such as gay marriage, where the president is in agreement with the SBC--and a plea for reconsideration by the president on those issues--such as abortion--where the president's position is in opposition to that of the Convention.

Barack Obama was elected, in part, because he convinced the American people that he would unite the country based on its common beliefs--one of which would be a desire for racial reconciliation. The SBC can certainly honor the president's election as a symbol of that goal; it can, at the same time, take a stand in opposition to the president on those parts of his agenda with which it disagrees.

Jesus never turned from anyone, leapers prostitutes, thieves, crooked politicians all were accepted and could find his love. Anti (opposite) Christ, that is simple. People like the SBC leadership and other people who divide humanity into unacceptable gene pools. The Southern Baptist elitism drove me from their ranks decades ago.

I don't really care one bit what the SBC thinks. They are frustrated with the idea of Separation of Church & State and would love to impose their own faith as a state religion and stomp out the non-Evangelical ones. Unlike other denominations, they believe in a God-given right to get involved in politics and endorse candidates. Faith is a private matter - not one to put on proud brassy triumphal display, like the Ten Commandments monument on the Oklahoma Capitol lawn.

[The resolution] also pledges to join hands with Obama to "advance causes of racial justice insofar as those efforts are consistent with biblical principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Ummm, those are great principles, but they are humanist principles of the Enlightenment (something that hasn't quite reached the dark recesses of the SBC yet) not the Bible.

Considering how the Southern Baptist Church split off from the mainline Baptist Church on the issue on slavery, I can see why they are so conflicted.

It is indeed historic that an African-American was elected president. As an American I am proud of this fact. However, I oppose President Obama, who, with his policies is turning the United States into European style socialism. Also, I am troubled by comments written in a book by a Chicago reporter on the religious beliefs of public figures including President Obama, that states that he believes people may come to the Father in other ways rather than through Jesus Christ.

If he believes this to be the case it is hardly fitting with the Bible, the inerrant word of God.

Walter

they can stick their congrats where the sun don't shine. that is about as likely as having one of their presidents expound on religious tolerance as a virtue. (now, that would be something worth hearing). otherwise, as a former baptist myself, i would say, 'f'em and the horses they ride into louisville.'

I am so tired of reading about what Baptists think. What have they done to promote Christian values? Very little in my opinion.

As a child growing up in the South, my most defining memories of SBs were the encounters I had with SB on my public elementary school bus. The older kids repeatedly reminded me that I would rot in hell because my parents were Catholic. I recall their churches doing no social charity (other than that directly hconnected with recruiting new members for their church). They just spent their time pretending they had the only direct line with God and if you didn't join and conform, you were a child of the devil and should be treated as such.

Now, some of those same children, after years of indoctrination, have become the leaders of their local congregations. Why should I expect any change?

It would be nice if a pastor introduced a resolution calling on the SBC to denounce the blatant racism and sexism that the right has directed at the President and at Judge Sotomayor. It would be nice if somebody introduced a resolution blasting the disgusting hate rhetoric coming out of the right wing punditocracy and blogosphere that is fanning the flames of extremism and violence. It would be nice if the SBC went on record saying that although it abhors abortion, violence is not an acceptable tool to fight it. It would be nice if the SBC took these stands in order to prevent what could turn out to be a catastrophe that we'll all regret, except of course for the vicious wingnuts among us. C'mon, SBC, stand up for what religion is supposed to mean. After all, 'what would Jesus say' about today's scary atmosphere?

It's a tough call. It could be a humbling experience or just another excuse to take a joyride in Wings-One, if I were Barack Hussien Obama.

Then again, does the Conference want to reach out in a Christian manner devoid of political motives themselves.

Now, you see my good fellows, I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church with many Catholic neighbors and lots of Jewish friends. Oh but what does that matter...

On the wall of our Church, was a huge map of the world. That map had pins set locating Missionaries through out the world. I am not sure if there is a pin on that map for Jimmy Carter now but...

Hmmm, start over, if I were President Obama, I would be a Star.

Romans 13:1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”

Does this sound familiar to any SBC people? It should. Jesus himself was for the separation of church and state. Pay attention to this and stay out of government.

"Judge not lest ye be judged"

How about that one, ring any bells? Stop judging other people and take care of your own business.

"Love thy neighbor as you love yourself"

I don't see any loopholes, clauses, or exclusions in that statement. Any people who call themselves "Christians" who apply that advice selectively need to stop thumping that book and read it again.

I am gagging while I write this comment. I was raised a Southern Baptist and, since I turned 15 years old (many, many years ago), have thought little of the philosophical bent that the church takes and even less of the people who run it. I also cannot stomach Obama, who is trying to Hitlerize America.

I can't stomach people who are stupid enough to compare Obama to Hitler.

USConscience wrote:

"Its the greatest offer in the history of the Universe."

No, I think the greatest offers in the history of the Universe are now available at Chrysler dealerships.

You are so steeped in self-righteousness and certainty that you will be in heaven, that you have clearly obviated the need for God or his judgement...you have already judged. You are a hypocrite.

Isn't it funny that the religious right always finds that God hates the same people they hate? How convenient!

Instead of attacking people who are merely requesting civil rights, which are a secular government matter and not in the realm of faith anyhow, Christians should focus on helping assuage the suffering of the poor here in American and around the world. We could do so much good for our fellow human beings if we'd stop messing around in "Caesar's Affairs" and get on with our true mission.

DoggedStrength wrote:
"as an african-american, i'd also point out that the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" isn't found in the bible, despite the SBC's appropriation of it as a "biblical principle"."

You are certainly correct. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have never been proposed a qualities of a religious life, even though the Southern Backwards Church would, post-facto, make such claims. In fact, slavery is both proposed and upheld in both sections of the bible.

What is it in the left-wing psyche, or in its approach to human events, that would lead it to formulate a debate on whether it was awkward for a religious organization to congratulate someone on an achievement that, IN AND OF ITSELF, was admirable and significant? Could it be that it is so 'awkward' for secular progressive groups to congratulate traditional achievers for significant accomplishments that they WOULDN'T EVEN CONSIDER DOING IT?

Err, cause it's pretty hypocritical to congratulate a black President for his acheivements after both opposing *his* and even his parents' civil rights....

...and in the same breath redouble the same hatreds against the next minorities they want to use the same tactics against now?

If the Southern Baptist preachers were honest, everyone of them who exhorted their congregations to vote for George W Bush owes the American people an apology. A public apology and an apology from the pulpit.

They inflicted the most corrupt, amoral and unprincipled administration on the nation since the founding of the Republic. They forgot Jesus's words: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesars, and to God, the things that are God's"

Gay bashing by the "religious" like SBC is an insult to God who created gays

If you believe God created everything, why would he create gays to be the targets of hatred?

and don't give me you BS about people "choosing" to be gay - who would "choose" to be gay in a hateful, intolerant society that America has become thanks to the likes of SBC?

Would it be hypocritical for SBC to do something or not to do something? What an astonishing revelation of the innate hypocrisy of this fundamentalist legion! Hypocrisy is not about which position a person takes but about the sincerity or lack of sincerity with which any position is taken. If the SBC finds itself torn between two forms of hypocrisy, I think that is pretty good evidence that everything they say and do is calculating rather than sincere--which brands them as damned hypocrites.

Would it be hypocritical of the conservative evangelical Southern Baptist Convention to congratulate Obama, or hypocritical not to?
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Just because the conservative evangelical SBC does not believe in the same policies as Mr. Obama, does not mean that they cannot congratulate him in being the first black man to win a U.S., presidential election in history.

Furthermore, even if the SBC does not subscribe to ALL of Mr. Obama's politics or policies, it should not be the only reasons why they cannot acknowledge some of what he has accomplished, e.g., "in promoting liberty and justice for all people, or advancing racial reconciliation". I did not include the unborn, because that in itself is highly debatable. None of these things can be taken lightly, nor have they really been taken seriously by past leaders in the last 20 years or so. At least he has been bold enough to bring it to the forefront.

Mr. Obama has done more and said more in the last 10 months concerning promoting liberty and justice for all people (whether they know it or not) and advancing racial reconciliation than any president, since Kennedy or LBJ. I think it would be hypocritical of the SBC to not own up to those facts.

USConscience wrote:

""I wonder why these guys think they need an Antichrist when they can speak such bald-faced hatred all on their own. "

"Your obviously talking about all the gay rights proponents !!!"

You're prejudiced against LGBT people, and you have your reasons.

So when the CDC says AIDS is harmful and contageous, do you understand that to mean that the CDC is offering “support” for prejudice against LGBT people?

It certainly does not. The CDC's assessment of AIDS is based on science, with the usual caveats that apply to all scientific assertions.

Your prejudice against gays is not based on science. It's based at
least in part on your personal understanding of Christian scripture --
presumably without benefit of any significant knowledge of the languages in which that scripture was originally written -- which
you probably share with like-minded bigots, and on your belief that
Christian scripture is adequately controlling for the beliefs, attitudes, values and behavior of people who call themselves Christians. It might also be based in very large part on fear of the xenophobic variety.

"If they could just see". The words of every bigot. "I'm not a bigot. It's just that I see things clearly that others somehow can't see."

Depending on how egregiously the "sight" diverges from what most others
can "see", it can be considered a form of mysticism or a form of
delusional disorder. In the former form, you have bigoted armchair
pseudo-intellectuals such as yourself. In the latter form, you have
dangerous psychopaths, not a few of which have entered the Christian clergy.

Since when did "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" become biblical principles?? What a glaring and unfortunate example of Christians infusing their nationalism into their religion.

The truth? No human being knows anything about the nature of God, or whether such an entity exists. Got that? NO HUMAN BEING, including those in the SBC OR in any other organization. Period.

DoggedStrength wrote:
"as an african-american, i'd also point out that the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" isn't found in the bible, despite the SBC's appropriation of it as a "biblical principle"."
You are certainly correct. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have never been proposed a qualities of a religious life, even though the Southern Backwards Church would, post-facto, make such claims. In fact, slavery is both proposed and upheld in both sections of the bible.
Posted by: Doug_White | June 14, 2009 12:57 PM
Report Offensive Comment
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You Sick piece of Cow Dung! LOL!
You really think your twisted logic of excusing you to indulge in SLAVERY will bridge with words from a BOOK.

"for the heart and mind will be searched"
NOT WORDS!
The ONLY words that matter of the UTMOST for OUR TIME AND BEYOND are from The Christ, Jesus! For the Living God will search you out and spit you from his mouth FAR into the bowels of hades for your partaking of ADDING to his word a grave and serious matter. SLAVERY is an action that leads to SALVATION, not a means that leads to an END! For God is Alpha and Omega. How dare you compare his teachings to an excuse to HOLD BONDAGE upon a person and excuse the dumb ways of your possible ancestorialship!

NO Where is SLAVERY is encouraged and I cannot wait for the ACTS committed in the US on this subject to shown to ALL at the GREAT JUDGMENT!

You fool!

Unless you are born again, you CANNOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven!

While ye are yet in your state (that is whatever you are doing at the time or whatever your CIRCUMSTANCE may be), You can be saved.

Not if you want to be a slave step right up!

SERVING GOD is something you should look forward not enslaving his creation, idiot!
Get it Right or shut up!

The Southern Baptists have been wrong on every major social question in America's history. Why should they mess with their perfect record now?

Have they gotten their heads around women not being slaves to their husbands yet, or is that one still a toughie? I'm not an anthropologist so I'm not up on the latest development with this primitive tribe we found in the kudzu jungles of the deep South and are trying to assimilate into developed society.

These people differ from the folks our soldiers in Afghanistan are fighting only by the language they speak.

SBC to me, are just as hate filled and radical as the KKK.
They should be ashamed! Much closer to the devil than God, in my opinion!

Life, Liberty and Pursuit of happiness are biblical principles?!?

We keep confusing patriotism with piety and that's why so many Americans who call themselves religious support unChristlike things like war and torture.

The Southern Baptists should just pass a resolution:

"Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king." 1 Peter 2:17

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood,but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the power of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:12

Then the Southern Baptists could have special prayer for Obama--since Obama "missed" the National Day of Prayer.

Obama does not even know that his entire worldview opposes the Judeo Christian Worldview.

Who really gives a sh!t what these knuckle-draggers think?

Obama is NOT and can NOT be the Antichrist.

He is at worst (either knowingly or unknowingly) just preparing the way by the destruction or decline of the USA, so that Europe and this evil European leader will be preeminent then Obama will be irrelevant.

The AntiChrist will arise from Europe (Daniel 9:24-27) and will conquer 3 countries (Daniel 7:24) and numerous other Biblical criteria.

And the Anti Christ will be smart.......

Obama's policies, like cutting on missile defense shield budget, is endangering the liberal Democrat states.

Im not so sure if the Republican-leaning SBC should thank Obama for that.

Should they thank him?

Speaking out to highlight the mistakes of idiots is a novel profession so why are the idiots complaining?

Can the idiots interpret the Book of Daniel? Daniel is a very wise person and yet he got a severe headache in decifering the vision he was given.

How much more can the idiots understand the book?

Reading these comments by those who champion the cause of the SBC corporation, says so much about their true beliefs and their inner hatred of their fellow man.
If there is a God, he certainly would not be espousing the viciousness these SBC supporters utter about blacks, gays, and our new President. To call President Barack Hussein Obama a socialist demonstrates their utter ignorance. These fools know nothing about socialism or they wouldn't be using that to describe our President. I pity them because in the end, there is no rapture or spaceship that will save them from themselves. Ignorance, hatred, selfishness, and idolatry will consume them,while those they continually vilify, will continue to flourish and grow along with the rest of the world. With their mindset, they offer nothing toward the progression of this life and only serve to keep themselves in utter darkness. I welcome all my brethren into friendship regardless of one's lifestyle and yes, even those who would hate me.

The Bible is never wrong. Soon the idiots will see for themselves how idiotic they are when they see for themselves the missiles coming.

You can't reason with these guys.

No rapture? Think again when it actually refers to the unrighteous wiped out of this world.

The waiting would not be so long.

papafritz57 wrote "With their mindset, they offer nothing toward the progression of this life and only serve to keep themselves in utter darkness."

The Apollo 9 crews read a chapter from the book of Genesis (Bible) in space and the SBC runs largest relief organization second only to the Red Cross. Whatever "progression" you are talking about?

Waht has atheism done to this world so far? Building nukes in North Korea and spreading communism?

Now, do you see why the missiles are coming? God had given you up and can't help the stupidity you guys possess.

Spidermean- America and many of our allies have built nukes and America has the largest stockpile in the world. Has atheism done that also? Who's talking about atheism anyway? I am not an atheist, you just assumed so. I simply do not believe in religious corporations who use the Holy Bible to subjugate those who are different or interpret The Word to their own prejudices. What matters if the Apollo crew read a chapter from the Bible? What does that signify? The progression I am speaking of is the freedom of EVERY INDIVIDUAL to believe as they wish and not as you wish. The freedom not to be publicly degraded by those who think they are better or who proclaim their holiness using the Bible as their truth. The truth as they interpret it, that is. We have continuously progressed in this life from barbarians to civilized people and that must grow. It has only been a few decades that black people could walk on the same side of the street with white people. That is progression.
Religion must not be used to throttle others for the sake of someone else's belief, however twisted those beliefs are. Who will the SBC demand condemnation of next? Will it be left handed people or blue eyed ones? And why are you calling me stupid? Did God tell you to do so? Or are you just too immature to engage in civil discourse? What is your problem?

The Southern Baptist Church was founded on the proposition that slavery was their god-given -- no, god-mandated right -- on the belief in slavery and white male supremacy as the anchoring foundation of christianity. It is a religion and church founded on HATE and they've continued to live up to their legacy for the past 150+ years.

the truth is as stated above BY: B2O2:

"The Southern Baptists have been wrong on every major social question in America's history. Why should they mess with their perfect record now?

Have they gotten their heads around women not being slaves to their husbands yet...? ....

These people differ [little in their radical hatred, especially of women, and their violent extremist beliefs] from the [TALIBAN EXTREMISTS] our soldiers in Afghanistan are fighting ...

so true. if they could only go back to the days of white male authoritarianism -- that's why all the republicans are so angry -- and if they could only create the Stepford version of America -- then everything would be just peachy keen.

shame on Obama for capitulating and kowtowing to southern baptist haters like rick warren.

sign me: a proud and unrepentant reprobate who escaped from that vile religion of hate and oppression!

.

OH JEZUS MOTHER MARIA ARE WE GAYS/LESBIANS THE NEW SLAVES OF THIS HOKUS/POKUS RELIGION?? I ASK U FELLOW AMERIKANS DO WE HAVE A GREAT COUNTRY OR NOT??

Isn't the Church associated with John Hagee's Cornerstone Evangelical Church nearby (San Antonio, TX)? Even if not directly, Hagee's been a practitioner of "reverse" politics and it would not be the first time someone put up a resolution so that it could be "rejected" as a political stunt.

Wiley Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, CA is praying "imprecatory prayer" against "The usurper that is in the White House...B. Hussein Obama". "Are you praying for his death?" Asked Allen Colmes on his radio show.

"Yes," Drake replied.

"So you're praying for the death of the president of the United States?"

"Yes."

Drake served one year as second vice president of the SBC.

There's your typical Southern Baptist leader.

No rapture? Think again when it actually refers to the unrighteous wiped out of this world.

Spider...The rapture, a fairly modern interpretation created by a Scottish schoolgirl, is when you are going to be taken up and I will be left behind.

I eagerly awaith that day when a few will be called up and the rest of you will surely commit suicide in shame for being left behind. Then maybe the rest of us left behind can build a better world.

Either way spidey...If you go up or off youself in shame...I'm good.

John Stuart Mill said, "I will call no being good who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet to my fellow creatures, and if such a being can sentence me to hell for not so calling him, then to hell I will go.” Given the way "God" behaves in the Old Testament, it is impossible to call him good. And given the way Biblical literalists, and the SBC, behave, it is impossible to call them good (or rational). By the way, Spidey, thanks for providing your usual laughs. Your posts always border on parody and give me a good chuckle.

"McKissic might have some reconciling of his own to attend to. In 2006, he told the Family Research Council's Values Voter Summit that the Anti-Christ would be gay."

He had that partly right. Actually, the Anti-Christ is proving to be the father of a gay person: Dick Cheney.

Folks, time to come to the realization that in the 21st Century religion has no use. It's long since outgrown it's ability to convince intelligent, perceptive people that fairies, ghost, spooks, oracles and gods exist in anything but a primitive mind lacking basic understanding of the natural world.
Start taxing the church as a way to help balance the budget if one wants to finally start making the institution useful.

"and don't give me you BS about people "choosing" to be gay - who would "choose" to be gay in a hateful, intolerant society that America has become thanks to the likes of SBC?"
**************************
who? who doesn't KNOW that prisons are HORRIBLE places..yet we have no shortage of thieves, murderers and the like. Homosexuality is a CHOICE! Man is fallen and 'sin' is our natural inclination day and night...that is, until God, by His sovereign grace chooses to CHANGE US.

What a wonderful thing it will be when the xtian religion is nothing more than a memory. The xtian posters here are all the proof you need that it's a truly twisted and psychotic belief sytsem.

The Southern Baptist Convention is, like all organized religions, basically a business. Over the last 20 years the SBC has become a particularly profitable one. Drive through any large Southern city and take a gander at their churches: Tara-inspired mansions with a cross on the top and state of the art audio-visual systems.

When contributions begin to dwindle and their lobbyists start to bring home smaller bags of taxpayer loot, the SBC will adapt like any other well-run moneymaking entity. If the advertising slogan "The Anti-Christ is gay" (or black or Muslim or a redheaded left-handed Episcopalian from Connecticut) doesn't pull in the expected revenues, they'll find something else.

The idiots are too proud to acknowledge that they can't understand the Bible.

That's the root cause of the problem.

It's a pity that they can't understand it coz it's a reflection of how God is so displeased with them. They have the map and yet the Lord hide from them the codes to the map.

Waht a pity and yet you can't blame the Lord coz it's the idiots who are rejecting His call for reconciliation with Him.

The vision of Daniel. They are all slowly forming now and yet the idiots have no iota of a clue of what's happening around them.

What a pity. What a pity.

ramvt84" "who? who doesn't KNOW that prisons are HORRIBLE places..yet we have no shortage of thieves, murderers and the like."

Then why are you so desperate to imprison *more* people, people who have stolen nothing, murdered no one, harmed none in any way, into a sort of prison.

Maybe it's a *punitive* view of people and reality that's part of the *problem,* eh?

"Homosexuality is a CHOICE! Man is fallen and 'sin' is our natural inclination day and night...that is, until God, by His sovereign grace chooses to CHANGE US."

Why are you so *desperate* to believe that?

Who taught you to look at other people, perhaps yourself, and see only 'sin' needing to be 'imprisoned?' Is that... 'Eden?'

Is that innocence?

Or just a dark cell where open hearts should be?

spidermean2, you said,
"The Bible is never wrong."

i once wrote:
There are 50 versions of the Bible in use today – just in English – all presumably with no errors. These all have different emphasis, grammar and punctuation. Hebrew and Greek don’t have punctuation. Hebrew doesn’t even have vowels! Even if we compare manuscripts in the original language, there are differences. There can only be, at most, one inerrant version. Which is it?

Suppose, magically, we know we have the one right version, it still would have internal contradictions. These contradictions are not between the Bible and science, the Bible and morals, or different versions of the Bible; they are within a given version of the Bible, and should be apparent to anybody who reads it.

This was not a problem for the first 1500 years of Christianity since almost nobody read the Bible: most people couldn’t read; of those who could, most couldn’t read Hebrew or Greek; and those who could, couldn’t get their hands on a Bible, as, before the printing press, copies were extremely rare. By the 1700s when copies were widely available people started noticing these internal contradictions. Rational people have known for a long time that the Bible is wrong (about at least some things).

Thomas Paine wrote a scathing, but ever-rational, critique of the science and morals of the Bible, in he which includes some internal contradictions.

The Age of Reason, 1795 http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/singlehtml.htm

ccnl1, part 2:

Entire books have been written about internal contradictions. In 1859, William Burr wrote Self-Contradictions of the Bible, which lists 144 contradictions http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cv/scb/index.htm

Here is just one example from the Old Testament. 1Ki 4:26 says, “And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.” 2Ch 9:25, describing the same point in time, says, “And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.” Now, obviously one of these is wrong. Reasonable people would say 2Chronicles meant to say “four thousand,” but inerrantists are not reasonable about scripture. They are reduced to saying, “Well, if he had forty thousand stalls, then he did have four thousand stalls (and thirty-six thousand others).”

From the New Testament, there is disagreement on Jesus’ last words. Luke 23:46 says, “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, “Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:” and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.” Whereas John 19:30 says, “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished:” and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”

Apologists have written entire books to try to explain the contradictions. They resolve some, but inevitably conscientious apologists are reduced to supposing that, due to our mental shortcomings, there are a few apparent contradictions in the Bible, which God must have put there for a reason (and we cannot know the mind of God).

In fact, the most popular Bible in the world, The New International Version (NIV), which purports to be compiled on the basis of the best scholarship applied to all existing manuscripts, actually cleans up and glosses over many contradictions – NOT based on scholarship or the reliability of the manuscripts, but cherry-picked, aimed at achieving internal consistency. http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/versions.html

ccnl1,
which one of these verses is wrong?

Genesis 36:12 says "Amalekites" are descendents of Abram’s great-great-grandson Amalek.

Genesis 14:7 describes Abram, still childless, attacking the Amalekites.

OOPS!
pardon me ccnl1, those last two posts were meant for spidermean2.

i don't know why i got you confused. sorry again.

Hee, Walter. I could see that confusion happening. :)

walter-in-fallschurch, as I always say, the Bible is a very intelligent Book and NOT just any ordinary book.

That is not how you read the Bible looking for contradictions coz you will always find one especially if one is an UNBELIEVER.

That is the mystery there. The idiots will find lots of contracdictions while the wise use the contradictions as puzzles to solve and therefore break the codes and use these "codes" to interpret the Bible more wisely.

Apsotle Paul said that the Old Testament is a SHADOW of the New Testament. Shadow means the blurred picture but not the actual object itself.

Our minds can easily trick us that is why you confuse me for ccnl. It's impossible that you would be able to understand the Bible and I think that's a pity.

Thomas Paine wrote "The Christian Mythologists tell us that their Satan made war against the Almighty, who defeated him, and confined him afterward, not under a mountain, but in a pit. It is here easy to see that the first fable suggested the idea of the second; for the fable of Jupiter and the Giants was told many hundred years before that of Satan."

Thomas Paine was referring to a section in the Book of Revelation. It's impossible for him to understand the PERSONIFICATION coz it pertains of a future event. Only people born in this generation can actually understand what that revelation actually means. Even the writer Apostle John I think don't know what it means.

Like Thomas Paine, walter-in-fallschurch has many things to learn before they can touch the subject of Revelation in the Bible.

It's a pity that these people eat their own vomit or were "educated" in their own stupidity.

spidermean2,
hey, don't knock "eating vomit" 'til you've tried it...

boy, you sure are abusive - throwing around words like "idiot" and "stupid". oh, well....

so, are you waiting for jesus' long-overdue apocalypse? will it happen in your lifetime? in mark 13, when jesus said,

"But in those days, following that distress, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

did you think he meant "this generation" - like he was talking to YOU, not the people standing right in front of him?

walter-in-fallschurch wrote "did you think he meant "this generation" - like he was talking to YOU, not the people standing right in front of him?"

I think you can answer that question yourself a few years from now. But don't wait for "the son of man coming in clouds" coz as I always say, UNBELIEVERS can't understand the Bible. It's not what you think it is.

That's the problem with your world, Spidey. It's *always* ending. It's *been* ending for seventeen hundred years, even if the form of your Fundie style apocalyptic myth is actually much more recent.

If "unbelievers can't understand the Bible," it's pretty stupid to ...call people stupid and make arguments from the Bible at them.

spidermean2,
i know i'm just a "stupid unbeliever" (and an "idiot" apparently), but can you try to explain what "the son of man coming in clouds" means? please? my "stupid idiot unbeliever" self imagines it's "the son of man coming on a cloud."

will you be disappointed when you die and the apocalypse hasn't happened yet?

I guess this site does not edit comments for relevance.

We are supposed to elevate the conversation, not drag each other down with vitriol and nonsequiturs.

WHAT SCRIPTURE IN THE word taught us to hate?
they hate blacks...
they hate the PRES...
they hate latios..
they hate hewbrews..
they hate women preachers..
the hate people that are gay...
they hate people that have different politicial thoughts then them...

but they are going to heaven because jesus taught them to love all mankind? love thy (WHO?)