Christian Soldiers or Crusaders?

The easy solution: All members of the US military should be given the following synopsis of Christianity, The Reality Thereof:

for those eyes that have not seen--

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises in the RCC:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises for Protestants and various cults-

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology, all male hierarchies and strange banking and funding.

I would say they are soldiers who may be misinformed christians. Because of their misinformation or heretical views of the world. They are acting and doing the work of military-religious crusaders. They may have also been brainwashed by someone, or a group of somebodies. I wonder if they try equally hard to witness to their fellow soldiers first. Of if this is a case of "all of us christians" they're not.

"The special forces guys, they hunt men basically," Hensley says. "We do the same things as Christians, we hunt people for Jesus. We do, we hunt them down. Get the hound of heaven after them, so we get them into the kingdom. That's what we do, that's our business."

Perhaps that's what you "do," Mr. Hensley, but it's fundamentally illegal, unethical, and un-American. Not to mention that you're doing it on taxpayer dollars.

Military leaders need to get on top of this issue and stop pretending, as Maj. Jennifer Willis does, that "sharing the gospel" and "proselytizing" aren't the same thing, whether you do it to Afghans or fellow soldiers.

They ARE the same thing. Anyone who tries to "share" religious tracts with me is trying to get me to believe what they believe. That's "proselytizing."

It shouldn't be happening on street corners, and it absolutely needs to be stopped in all venues that are even marginally funded by the U.S. government.

Americans are free to follow whatever religion or spiritual tradition they want to. They are NOT free to invade my personal space with their beliefs.

There is no reason that representatives of the American government should be allowed the freedom to proselytize for their God to anyone, much less in hostile territory to believers of a competing version of God. It is contrary to the central American tenet of neutrality of the government to religion, and it is against our national interest. In fact it can only exacerbate the tensions and hostilities while in conflict with an Islamic enemy.

That the military personnel and especially military officers are not only engaged in activity that is contrary to General Order Number One, but are the leadership behind this illegal activity is dereliction of duty in the least. They should be treated as the threat that they are. I do not care that they imagine they are the Holy Warriors and Keepers of the Hounds of Heaven waging Christian Jihad for the Souls of the Infidel Damned. Take these sons of canines off the friggin' battlefield and out of the environment that can cause greater widening of the already sizable abyss between Christianity and Islam.
We need to find common ground in the extremely sensitive arenas of religious belief in the world, and we can do so with respect of the differences and similarities that we have. Conversion, a deep form of negation, is not the tactic or tool to use to be successful finding peace in the religious wars.

Let these officers convert the Fallen in military prison. Seriously. And any hierarchy of the military command structure that is allowing this type of illegal activity to continue unabated, and not stopping it in it's tracks, should join their subordinates in prison. They can all hold prayer circles and work for a peace in that way. We would all feel safer, and happier, with that arrangement.

Perhaps they can retire from the Services and volunteer as missionaries in Pakistan. That way if they get beheaded by al-Qaida they are at least a private citizen and not a representative of America.

No, I think I like the first option better. No PR to pump for the radical muslim, no advantage to be had by either side. Closer to peace and a happy, tolerant and respectful middle ground.

Get Christians out of the conflict. What is hard to understand about that? What idiot would intentionally inject religion into this volatile mix? It would have to be some kind of deluded SOB "Soldier of God". Grow up and actually practice Light.

Conversion is fundamentally weak, and an Evil.

It's not surprising this is occurring -- hasn't proselytizing been a problem a the service academies for a while now? Stands to reason it would spread into the ranks eventually.

The Crusades didn't go so well the first time around. Let's not repeat them with more lethal weaponry.

I am a veteran, Viet Nam era, but I must add that I have no combat experience.

This bunch of Jesus freaks in the military makes me VERY angry. As I understand it, soldiers in combat are a band of brothers, and the most important thing is TRUST. Any soldier actively trying to convert Afghans only enrages the enemy, and puts his fellow soldiers in danger. This is a basic violation of the trust that soldiers must have. As far as I am concerned, this is borderline treason. Anyone caught doing this should be transferred to the utter north of Alaska, at the very least.

I am Christian, but putting one's own interpretation of this complex religion first, and trying to convert your fellow soldiers, or, worse, the population, only spreads discord. It is despicable. It is also a violation of a soldier's oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.

America can't win this war and the coming more wars because America has forgotten its roots. The main reason why Al Qaeda exist is because 50+ years ago, just after WW2, a muslim person was so disgusted at seeing how America's morality has deteriorated. He wrote a book about it and made a personal crusade that this kind of marality won't ever reach his land.

Bin Ladin had read this book and now continue that mission.

Islam is a false religion but Christianity has so many false branches whose doctrines are actually worse than that of Islam. Gay marriage, Darwinian evolution, Catholic priest fornications, etc.

Leave those Christian soldiers alone and let them preach what true America is. It is a nation chosen by God to rule the world because of its true Christian VALUES. The part of America who don't keep those values will be annihilated at the hands of guess who?

Need I say more?

Tell you what, Spidey... why don't you put down the bag of Cheetos, get out of your Mommy's basement, enlist, and go over there to Afghanistan or Iraq yourself? It might put a few things into perspective for you. Including that they're already trying to throw off the yoke of ONE crazy religious fundamentalist group. They don't need another one. Serve your country instead of sitting there complaining about how we're all going to h-e-double hockey sticks because we believe in science.

proselytize: to induce someone to convert to one's faith

By its very nature proselytizing is coercive, and many Pagans find it to be very bad manners, in the least. It is certainly inappropriate in the military culture. I known the alarm has been sounded over Christian fundamentalists at the US Air Force Academy. I believe a cadet at the Air Force Academy has a lawsuit against the Academy for the harrassment he suffered because he was an atheist.

If your life isn't succifient witness to your faith, you're doing it wrong.

Athena4 wrote "Serve your country instead of sitting there complaining about how we're all going to h-e-double hockey sticks because we believe in science. "

Im an engineer and engineers are actually scientists coz they only study PURE science unlike Biology which is a combiantion of science and lots of speculations. It's a pseudo-science.

Much worse with paganism. I understand that pagans worship nature. Engineers study the law and sciences about nature and as a consequence becomes "masters" of nature.

Learn about science so you don't become SUPERSTITIOUS.

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Wiccan wrote "By its very nature proselytizing is coercive"

NOT if you believe in the doctrine of "FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE" as a major element for salvation. Evangelical Christianity is NOT in the business of coercion. You can's force salvation to a person. It's a GIFT from God.

There's a news clip which says that a 21 year old Swede had broke into NASA's "advanced" computer division. If found guilty, he'd be imprisoned for 50 years. 10 years for each count.

Wow, imagine, they will imprison this boy for exposing the STUPIDITY of NASA. Who knows there were previous incursions done by enemy hackers but were undetected?

They should free the boy and FIRE those in charge for NASA's security lapses.

The government should hire the kid instead to replace those in NASA. It has become a dumb organization. Too much of evolution quackery perhaps.

Here's a portion of the clip.

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Pettersson was accused in the five-count indictment of breaking into the computer system and network of San Jose, California-based Cisco in May 2004 and stealing operating system code.

He allegedly broke into computers belonging to the US space agency NASA's Ames Research Center and the NASA Advanced Supercomputing Division in Moffett Field, California, in May and October of the same year.
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The best way to help the Afghani people is to change their worldview. Look what their belief system had done for them so far. Any other ideology would be an improvement. Muslim societies vary to a large degree in their languages, races, histories and local cultures, yet they all have very distinctive common characteristics besides, offcourse, their religion. It is POVERTY,ILLITERACY and CORRUPTION.
The best favor that can be extended the Afghanis and their likes would be to separate them from the ideology that has proved its utter inadequacy to meet their daily needs. It is exacerbating their miserable present and threatening their future as well as the future of the rest of the world.

There is only one reason that a church would have sent this soldier copies of the Bible translated into local dialects - they were intended for distribution - a verboten act on two fronts. The military forbids attempts by soldiers to convert others. The laws of Afghanistan forbid conversion from Islam or attempts by others to convert Muslims.
Soldiers need to follow the rules that they agreed to when they enlisted, as well as the laws of the country in which they are stationed.

Spidermean2,

I have a hard time believing that you are an engineer because your messages are barely literate. The engineers I know are well-educated, articulate, and capable of writing a sentence grammatically.

If you took more care with your writing, more people might take your seriously. Then again, probably not...

Spidey-

It's a good thing you put quotes around "masters" of nature. Tell me, boy, can you call the winds, command the sun, turn back the tides? Didn't think so. "Masters", indeed. Sniff.

Whether it's the "right" of soldiers to proselytize the Afghanis is irrelevant. That action by a few puts all of the people serving over there at risk. Why would such an "innocent" practice as giving an Afghani a Bible put our soldiers at risk, you ask? Because word will get out that the Americans don't respect Islam and are trying to force people to their religion, and make the ordinary people more sympathetic to the Taliban. It also serves as a great recruitment tool for Islamists from other countries to go an "fight the infidels" in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In other words, by trying to "save our poor beknighted brown brothers," we're putting all of our American soldiers at risk. I can't believe that, after all of this time, the Fundies would be so stupid and short-sighted. "Support the troops" indeed.

Oh, and Spidey, you missed my point. The point was not that we're going to hell because we believe in science. It's that you're sitting there taking potshots at everyone from the safety and anoymity of your computer, while REAL heroes are out there in the desert, enduring heat, sand, a hostile populace, etc. for your right to be a jerk.

It's very clear from reading David Waters' article on this blog that he is serving as a Christian apologist for the United States military in the Middle East by suggesting that the video was "exaggerated" and the chaplain’s comments were "unfortunate." He also repeats the U.S. military’s defense that the chaplain’s comments were “taken out of context” and the bibles “were not distributed” as if these two points were irrefutable facts and not potentially part of an understandable public relations spin by the Pentagon.

Waters goes on to repeat the Pentagon’s defense by asking what it can do, “despite [the video’s] exaggerations.” Waters’ assumption that the report is an "exaggeration" and the U.S. military response is “factual,” coupled with his thinly veiled defense of the chaplain and the behavior of our soldiers in the Middle East is an egregious and reprehensible spin on this story.

If Waters is going to write a blog for a major American newspaper with the outstanding reputation of the Washington Post, he should at least demonstrate fundamental integrity by making an “attempt” to be fair and unbiased. I’m afraid, in this case, his Christian predisposition to slant the truth is left on full display, and it’s embarrassing!

If America did not dismantle the Japanese belief that their emperor is a god, it would have been a wasted war.

You fix a country by fixing their stupid ideology.

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Wiccan wrote "Tell me, boy, can you call the winds, command the sun, turn back the tides? "

I can "call" a cool breeze by making an air conditioner, stop the heat of the sun by making a comfortable shelter over my head and use its power by making solar panels and build concrete embankments to stop the tide. Engineering is actually a study to rule over nature. Not totally but to that effect.

Pro life soldiers killing people. Its irony on a baasic level but its a hoot.

If the actions of one of these morons gets even one soldier killed by reinforcing the fundamentalists notion that the U.S. is there to convert them, then they should be court martialled.

They give credence to the vile propaganda that the enemy spews about the U.S. mission there. Absolute imbeciles.

Remember: freedom of religion is also freedom from religion.

Athena-

Spidey may or may not be a jerk- but that is a matter of opinion....

Look in the mirror- are YOU acting like a jerk due to the anonymous nature of the internet?

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Wow, that spidermean is one twisted sister! You couldn't make an air conditioner anymore than you could hold back the tide with your half baked concretions. The article is about is Rule Number One which proscribes every act these fundie morons are engaging in and it is way past time the military justice system steps in and court martial all of these miscreants! And spidey, America was no more chosen by God to rule the world than mice evolved to eat cats.