McDonald's Yields to Anti-Gay Boycott

Although I can't eat McDonald's food due to diet limitations, I am very disappointed in McDonald's for caving in to the American Taliban religious fascists trying to force their religion on everyone else. I think perhaps a boycott is now appropriate, until McDonald's agrees to reverse its decision to give in to the bigots.

If you believe that homosexuality is wrong and have no desire to see your money going to promote homosexual causes, you have not only the right but the obligation to avoid spending your money at establishments that promote the homosexual agenda.

It scares me, that a country who claims to be the "world leader" could even think of banning equal opportunities.

I am done with McDonald's as they pull themselves from an association that works for equal benefits (nothing to do with prop 8).
Fact is that the more I hear of anti-equality america, the more I am done with you guys. The more I refuse to purchase your products, listen to your music and support you "way of life" as it seems more hatefull than any other thing!

I think of myself as a christian and a freedom-loving man, and this is why I soon am running out of support to you guys.

McDonalds was right to end its relationship with the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. The biggest problem I see with the BGLT guadumvirate is that they are engaged in PROMOTION of their lifestyle, not mere acceptance.

McDonalds is a business. Businesses exist to maximize their profits. Businesses maximize profits by maximizing their customer base. Members of the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce may eat at McDonalds, but they are absolutely pathetic in numbers to families with children who eat there.

It's too hard to participate in boycotts because I am almost never a patron of said business. Disney? Oh yeah, I go there three times a year. McD's? Oh yeah, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Ford? Three of 'em in my driveway already. Just about to purchase 2 more. Hallmark? And I was just about to buy the value pack. I don't even know what Ford and Hallmark did. I remember the Wal-Mart boycott, though. That's a toughie. Mom's a Wallie World junkie, so I think we failed that test. What was that one about again? I think that was a sexual orientation...thing... also.

Boycotts are useful when they have clear discreet demands that can be measured and met. Extreme demands (you should go out of business!) are not useful. Nor are open ended boycotts.

MickeyD's has looked at its consumer base and decided that most of the people who care about gay rights already don't eat there. So, it is a relatively safe decision for them. Folks like the MightySparrow are irrelevant since they don't eat there anyway.

From a gay rights perspective it makes more sense to boycott corporations such as hotels where the effect can be measured.

But, really, a boycott should have a demand that the offender can meet to be removed from the boycott list. This doesn't seem to apply to the hotels or other donors to the CA anti-marriage initiative. WHAT is it we are asking them to do? This is not clear, which suggests that the boycotts are likely to be ineffective. Merely expressing anger isn't very useful.

Big generally worded boycotts tend to fail. From either the left or right.

Merely announcing a boycott is pretty meaningless. What really matters are the troops on the ground, picketing the offenders and getting the message across. Boycotts without ground troops generally go nowhere. (The UFW always had ground troops.)

If people want boycotts to be meaningful, they need to think about seriously organizing, not merely issuing press releases.

McDonalds should have done this - said sorry to hear about your hurt feelings, but there are plenty of Big Macs to go around to everybody else. If you want us to discriminate and have bigoted approaches to things you (and not us)don't understand, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Everyone knows this: the groups that play the religion card are full of the most pathetic leaders known to man. Or shall we call them the "dear leaders."

McDonelds, you should be ashamed of yourselfs caving to the outrageous claims this group perpetuates. You bent over to the McCarthyism tactics used by Dobson. He's a loser, people who follow is lead are mere sheep, and this whole group makes America look like a bunch of bigoted kooks. Thanks a bunch.

I boycott McDonalds because their food sucks, and is terrible for you.

But frankly I'll support any company that is the subject of a boycott from ChristoFascist Terrorists like the AFA.

Sweet, Heavenly Jesus, Save Me From Your Followers!

That settles it...I am no longer eating at McDonald's (although the number of times I did per year you can count on both hands and have fingers left over) because they caved to the Religious Reich. I am sick of people trying to force their religious views on everyone else. McDonald's and everyone else who panders to these close-minded bigots, consider your stores, restaurants, and other businesses boycotted by me and my family until you wake up!

MHoust, by "promotion" do you mean they're trying to get people to be gay (highly unlikely), or do you mean that they're actually demanding that gay people be treated like full people, just like you? Because it's not "acceptance" to say, "OK, I accept that you're gay, but you have to hide your relationships in public, live without basic legal protections for your marriage and family, and generally take second-class citizenship as a punishment for not being Just Like Me."
And why do you assume that families with children are automatically anti-gay? I'm a married woman, we have a son, and we're decidedly pro-gay rights. I think it's absolutely obscene and sick to attack other people's families and deny their children legal security because you happen to disapprove of their choice of spouse.
For crying out loud, why are we telling ANYONE that monogamy and faithful marriage is not for them? Isn't that the sort of behavior we want to ENCOURAGE for the stability of society? I understand that those of you who believe that homosexual love is "wrong" want to see gay people live celibately (because apparently the best, healthiest and most joyous blessings in life turn sick and evil when the "wrong" genitalia are involved?). But that's not going to work. People do not simply accept that they should choose loveless, lonely lives without family or the comforts of marital love, because other people's religious beliefs say that that's what they deserve. I don't see anyone who isn't Jewish or Muslim doing so little a thing as giving up bacon because other people's religious beliefs would have them do so - what makes you think that other people will give up love and sex and family because your religious beliefs urge them to? Isn't it, then, better that society ENCOURAGE them to find monogamous, stable marital outlets for those natural feelings, rather than actively barring them from marriage? Wouldn't it be healthier for everyone?

In 50 years people will look back on this with a mix of confusion, shame and pity that such a discussion was even considered valid in America. Gays and lesbians are people and deserve to be treated as such. They are not out to convert your children or destroy your family. This is how people talked decades ago about blacks and interracial marriage. Learn from the past. Please do not pass your bigotry and prejudice along. You have every right to boycott whoever you want, but does that having that right make it the right thing to do?

Nowhere in the bible does it say it is OK to inforce christanity, or the morals and values you derive from your christianity on others. There is NOTHING christian about persecuting gays, or the people that don't have a problem with doing business with them.

If, you as an individual, are homophobic and want to discriminate against gays, by all means, feel free to do so. This is america, after all, and if you want to indulge your ignorance, have at it. But don't use christianity as an excuse, because it doesn't support your actions.

By the way, I too am done with McDonalds. It is clear that they will suffer either way. I just wish they had chosen to suffer for doing the RIGHT thing.

Man of the Fortune 500 companies offer benefits to the same sex partners of employees and extend worker protections to GLB employees. The places where the best and brightest work do so, including most of the major tech companies and consulting and law firms. The best and brightest are not only willing to except GBL rights -- they embrace them, so what does that make the people involved in this boycott? And if they have been boycotting McDonalds for the past several months then exactly where have they been eating? Was it also a hunger strike?

Soon there will be no more boycotts coz God will settle it Himself. He would burn the cities who practice homosexuality. That's the prophecy and nobody can bend it. It's bound to happen.

The rules of God doesn't change from the time of Sodom upto now.

Unfortunately, a boycott of McDonald's would be difficult. Most gay people don't eat there because we don't want to look like the multitudes of obese straight people - including their children. McDonald's is a proponent of obesity and overall poor health.

These Christians are saving your cities for your sake. Fools won't undertand that, would they? Naaaah

Boycotts work- unfortunately when they are used as a weapon to bash someone over the head for their religious beliefs or their support of diversity (and by extension, the constitution and Bill of rights), i have to wonder what is wrong with them. I think the AFA is a disgusting, undemocratic group of religo-fascists and if businesses allow them to dictate how they run based solely on conservative religious values, well, those businesses deserve to be hit with counter boycotts.

I don't eat at MacDonalds much, but i won't be eating there any longer. And I will make sure that my gay friends know how McDonalds buckled under to a group of undemocratic, biased jerks. This wasn't a boycott about improving conditions for workers, or to protest prejudice, pay inequities or justice. this is a boycott about enforcing discrimination by the people who scream the longest and the loudest about how their values are looked down on. I ask- what values might those be?

And McDonalds- betcha forgot all the gay people and their friends and families who poured money into your coffers over the years. Trust me- they won't.

I believe that people find their own way to God.I resent any religious group, christian or moslem, that tries to LEGISLATE its set of beliefs and standards of behaviour on the rest of us.

spidey2- you're simply ridiculous, as always. Love the consistency.

bob2davis- you sound waaayyy too much like spidey and his ilk, albeit on the other side. guys like you make straights like me wonder what the hell we're trying to help for. And fyi- I have many gay friends, few of whom look like the greek god Apollo, if you catch my drift.

Homosexuality is a kind of desease and repulsive, just like pornography. It's that simple. How would you react if McDonald's will promote PORNOGRAPHY?

No matter what these gays are saying or what laws they make, you can't take the fact that homosexuality is synonymous to pornography.

They should be rehabilitating themselves, just like what drug addicts do.

FIX THE PROBLEM AND NOT SPREAD IT.

I understand the CAH calling for a boycott of the San Diego hotels owned by Doug Manchester as he is the one who gave money. However, to boycott companies that simply have employees who donated is not right. I don't want my employer telling me which political causes I am allowed to get involved in so why would I want another company to do so to its employees. Intel did not donate money, one of its employees did. Boycotting Intel would do nothing to the person who gave the money.

Personally I think we Americans are complete hypocrites about respect for tolerance and diversity. How can MacDonalds cave into this immoral minority group of fundamentalist un-Christian bigots who claim to speak for family values, Mom & apple pie? It is disgusting how low we have fallen and let racists like these impose their beliefs on others. It is time to fight back.

"It is time to fight back. "

If you can fight, why not fight the DISEASE head-on? It won't only do you good but it will save your soul as well. That's the fight worth fighting for.

I too am disappointed in McDonald's for caving into a boycott that is designed by hate. From history, I find myself most admiring the boycotts that lead to inclusion or equality, not exclusion and ignorance of another group's rights.

Shame on McDonald's caving in. What will happen in the future is the group that is left behind will organize a boycott of their own.

wow spidey- what a sick miserable little world you live in. All fear, all the time.

Nothing I'd rather see than those right-wing, Bible-thumping Xians back chowing down that heart-crushing food at McD's.

Um Spidey2, yeah....I'm surprised you can actually figure out how to type in Washingtonpost.com....wow...you really are smart.

Now with that out of the way, I'm wondering why the Post would reference an article of the announcement in World News Daily which can, at best, be classified as so conservative it's fascist. Was there not another more reputible media source out there?

My take on this matter is: McD's should tell the Krazy Kristians (note this applies to groups like AFA only) to just go ahead and boycott. Lets see what happens.

Now when Spidey and his 4 big mac-a-meal diet doesn't show up because he's trying to save his soul (like Jebus would actually eat at McDonalds!!!) then they could assess the business impact. But until then as a company they are free to associate with which ever groups they feel are appropriate.

Onto the anti-gay stuff here: I am straight, I am happy, but need I remind all of you that the 14th amendment to the US constitution includes the wording: "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Um "Equal protection"...as in if you want the freedom to be "straight" then somebody else has the right to be "gay." This is not tough. If you really don't like gays then maybe a move to Saudi Arabia might be in the cards for you...they don't like them over there either.

Ah, conservative Christians. Still proving to the world what vile, racist, violent hatemongers they really are, and cloaking it in the "love" of Jesus.

Persecuting gays, attempting to take away their basic civil rights, just like they did to blacks and non-Christians.

Spidey, methinks thou dost protest too much. Are you sure you aren't the tiniest bit gay yourself? In my experience, the most ardent gay-haters are actually closet gays who are too cowardly to look in the mirror...

I think we should all boycott Spidey.

works for me, arminius!

McDonald's food is crap and so is the organization.

Marriage is between a man and a woman

The Bible is the Word of God . The Bible is written for a special group of people that were foreordained unto eternal life.There are three groups of people in this world believers, make believers and unbelievers.In the days of Lot we see the Abraham group out of Sodom, the Lot group in Sodom and the Sodom group who were Sodomites. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with fire and brimstone. The Lot group escaped the fire judgement that rained down on Sodom because of the intercessory prayers of Abraham that requested God to deliver the Lot group.The Sodom group were burnt ashes. Archeological digs confirmed Bible truths.
There are other books in this world of witchcraft, fairy tales ,history, literature,comic books, philiosophy, religious books etc etc. Witchcraft books are written about wizards and witches and their spells. Fairy tales are books about fairies.The Bible condemns witchcraft. The Bible is not a fairy tale. Even if fairies exist in some people's minds it will be just in fairy tales.History allegedly is supposed to be the correct chronicling of events as they happen but some events have recorded by biased scribes posing as historians.Literature is fictional writing,so are comics.Philiosophy is an attempt by man to discover the secret of life in man's quest for eternal happiness and so are religiouws writings that offer man a panacea to escape the drudgery of the struggles of life.
None of these books can compare to the Bible. The Bible is the only book that tells mankind who they are, where they come from and where they are going to.The Bible is clear about right and wrong.The Bible will judge you now or judge you Judgement Day.The Bible tells mankind death is not the end, that there is life beyond the grave and there is a purpose for everything.

Where is the moral compass? Where is moral decency?If any person or any persons or any community or any club or any society or any courts say that a sheep is a pig then no matter what label is posted on that sheep be it the label " a pig " that sheep will still have the character of a sheep because it was born as a sheep and not " a pig". The label " a pig" doesnot confer the character of a pig on the sheep. Nature is natural. The DNA of a sheep determine it's natural sheep characteristics, for everything brings forth after it's own kind. It is the law of seed and harvest.The law of seed and harvest cannt be changed by a stroke of a pen or by a declaration of any person or persons, society , club or person.
The nature of reproduction is for male and female of the same species to procreate. Everything brings forth of it's own kind. The DNA of the sheep determines it's characteristics.
In humanity, male and female procreate to produce children.That is the natural way. Every child has a father and a mother. A male father and a female mother.Husband and wife procreate to have children. That is the law of reproduction, the law of seed and harvest.Everything brings forth after it's own kind.

The females reproduce. The females have their eggs fertilized by male spermatatozoa. Or are the biological books wrong?
Are children being taught wrong in school about the reproductive cycle? They do teach the reproductive cycles by law in the schools as part of the educational curriculum. Are you proposing that they change that to?
Are you suggesting that by some "accident" or some "freak" of nature that the males could get ; pregnated by males or females pregnated by females? That is an abomination. That is confusion.( See levicticus 18 Society is not bent and don't need people sitting on a bench with no moral compass to put lipstick on a pig.
Pressure groups with no moral compass that don't know if their name is Arthur or Marthur are trying to dictate policy for the whole world.They can go fly a kite and go live on Mars and do what they want there. This is planet earth here and hetereosexual couples also got rights to stand by their religious and personal and traditional and cultural moral convictions
Men and women living as husband and wife as Married couples that fulfilled the legal definition of marriage as defined in law books do not need mischievous wicked persons to dictate life and morals to them.
Why are hetereosexual couples being discriminated by groups that don't know which side of the house they belong to? They don't know if they belong to the frontside or backside and want to change their names from arthur to marthur or marthur to arthur.
In Genesis, Adam married Eve. Adam a man married a woman. verse 22).
Society is not bent and don't need people sitting on a bench with no moral compass to put lipstick on a pig.
Pressure groups with no moral compass that don't know if their name is Arthur or Marthur are trying to dictate policy for the whole world.They can go fly a kite and go live on Mars and do what they want there. This is planet earth here and hetereosexual couples also got rights to stand by their religious and personal and traditional and cultural moral convictions
Men and women living as husband and wife as Married couples that fulfilled the legal definition of marriage as defined in law books do not need mischievous wicked persons to dictate life and morals to them.
Why are hetereosexual couples being discriminated by groups that don't know which side of the house they belong to? They don't know if they belong to the frontside or backside and want to change their names from arthur to marthur or marthur to arthur. In Genesis, Adam married Eve. Adam a man married a woman.
The courts of law follow judicial precedent. That is a legal fact.
Judges will always consult case law for guidance to make decisions that are legally correct based on judicial precedent.
Marriage has always been defined in case law as between a man and a woman. That is the law. Go argue with the constitutional judges.
It is sad some people feel that nature messed up their plumbing. Biological facts state that when male and female procreate, married or unmarried, the female will conceive and after gestation period of about nine months give birth to a child, or twins or triplets. That is the law of nature. Man and wife marry, have children.
The Bible is the Word of God . The Bible is written for a special group of people that were foreordained unto eternal life.There are three groups of people in this world believers, make believers and unbelievers.In the days of Lot we see the Abraham group out of Sodom, the Lot group in Sodom and the Sodom group who were Sodomites. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with fire and brimstone. The Lot group escaped the fire judgement that rained down on Sodom because of the intercessory prayers of Abraham that requested God to deliver the Lot group.The Sodom group were burnt ashes. Archeological digs confirmed Bible truths.
There are other books in this world of witchcraft, fairy tales ,history, literature,comic books, philiosophy, religious books etc etc. Witchcraft books are written about wizards and witches and their spells. Fairy tales are books about fairies.The Bible condemns witchcraft. The Bible is not a fairy tale. Even if fairies exist in some people's minds it will be just in fairy tales.History allegedly is supposed to be the correct chronicling of events as they happen but some events have recorded by biased scribes posing as historians.Literature is fictional writing,so are comics.Philiosophy is an attempt by man to discover the secret of life in man's quest for eternal happiness and so are religiouws writings that offer man a panacea to escape the drudgery of the struggles of life.
None of these books can compare to the Bible. The Bible is the only book that tells mankind who they are, where they come from and where they are going to.The Bible is clear about right and wrong.The Bible will judge you now or judge you Judgement Day.The Bible tells mankind death is not the end, that there is life beyond the grave and there is a purpose for everything. Errol Smythe.

The American Family Association always stretches the truth to their advantage. Make your own judgment from the following statement issued by McDonald's to its franchisees:

"As we've said all along, McDonald's stands by and supports our people. Diversity and inclusion are integral components of our brand and our heritage.

We continue to have strong employee networks throughout our company and will continue to align our brand with individuals and organizations that share our belief in supporting our people and the communities we serve.

Regarding Richard Ellis, he made a personal decision to step down from the Board of the National Gay & Lesbian Chamber of Commerce after he accepted a new position earlier this year with McDonald's Restaurants of Canada, Limited.

At McDonald's, we continue to value and respect everyone."

"It is our policy to not be involved in political and social issues. McDonald's remains neutral on same-sex marriage or any 'homosexual agenda' as defined by the American Family Association."

I'm a lesbian and have put McDonald's on my personal "do not patronize" list. Will the golden arches now sport a cross?

twasneva opines: "If you believe that homosexuality is wrong and have no desire to see your money going to promote homosexual causes, you have not only the right but the obligation to avoid spending your money at establishments that promote the homosexual agenda."

Oh, definitely.

McDonalds evidently made the calculation that they'd lose more customers by offending the gay community than by offending the bulbous, engorged, white-bread gum-cracking cigarette-smoking McCain voting Wal-Mart denizen and their obese, anti-intellectual home-schooled spawn that is the Christian Taliban.

So what?! It's for the best that these artery-clogging fast food restaurants be left to the religious wackos.

So, all you self-righteous freaks, just jam yourselves all in there cheek to cheek and wolf down a few Big Macs and large fries now that the boycott is over. Make it a habit. Extra mayo, please! And have some of that salt-soaked fake bacon with that! Extruded pig meat: yummy!

Can we hear you say, "Hallelujah"?! Now don't you all be praisin' the Lord with your mouths full!

"McDonalds evidently made the calculation that they'd lose more customers by offending the gay community..."

Fewer, you idiot. They'd lose FEWER customers.

Must be the oxycontin having a bad reaction with the bourbon.

easmythe:

i don't give a damn what your Bible says, because you twist it to persecute and destroy those who would disagree with you.

I don't live in your church, so keep your church out of my life!! You don't agree with same-sex marriage, that's your business. Our government doesn't legislate your lifestyle, so stop trying to do it to theirs!

If Christians are going to boycott companies for not killing homosexuals, I am going to boycott God for hiring a worthless, skinny, impotent weakling as a prophet. Jesus was no man, he was a pathetic wanderer who promoted weakness. I'll never side with a God that promotes a meekness even his followers can't adhere to. To hell with them all.

DGBlues,

May I feel as free to stereotype homosexuals' looks and behaviors as you do patrons of McDonalds? Or would that make me intolerant?

Errol Smythe - I think modern pharmacology could really help you.

When supposedly grown up people start talking about burning cities, some evil bloodthirsty god wreaking vengeance and magical prophesies what does that say about the state of education in this country?

The gay people I know tend to be educated nice folks who go out of there way to be respectful. I believe in the end their decency will ultimately trump the hate of religious conservatives.

OK, sorry for the snarky comment. Biblical rants always bring that out in me.

But here is a serious question (or two), for Errol and everyone else who thinks that gay marriage and other efforts to bring about about equality for gays actually *discriminate* against heterosexuals. Why do you believe that these efforts at equality are discrimination? Why is the institution of marriage "under attack" because more people want to be part of it? I just cannot understand this reasoning and would really appreciate any efforts to explain it. Thanks.

>> The gay people I know tend to be educated nice folks who go out of there way to be respectful. I believe in the end their decency will ultimately trump the hate of religious conservatives.

I think it's especially respectful (and charming!) when homosexuals look at your children, then at you, and call you a "f-ing breeder." I marvel at their tolerance of normal biology.

twasneva wrote:

"May I feel as free to stereotype homosexuals' looks and behaviors as you do patrons of McDonalds? Or would that make me intolerant?"

That depends. If you're a woman, then according to the Bible, you have to keep your mouth shut and do your chores.

>> If you're a woman, then according to the Bible, you have to keep your mouth shut and do your chores.

It's cute how every response has an anti-Christian slant to it. Your tolerance is remarkable, as every radical homosexual enabler's tolerance is.

Not that it's any of your business - it's very definitely not - but I am not a Christian. Try again.

You know, [at 65 y/o] I have never been able to understand why other people feel they need to even concern themselves or be bothered with gay and/or lesbian lives. It's just like living vicariously through a movie stars life and that is a waste of precious time. We have our own lives to live and enough issues in them so as not to be concerned with others.

Others have the right to live as they chose or see fit. I don't care what others do since others DO NOT 'DIRECTLY' AFFECT my lfe. Everyone is entitled to live their life the way they wish and NO ONE has the right to judge it. So please, who are they 'DIRECTLY' HURTING? They are directly hurting NO ONE if they are NOT in your business and ask you for nothing. Let people live the way they chose and if they are adults and want to marry, what difference does it make 'DIRECTLY' to you or your life?

Radical homosexual enabler? that's what you call people who don't want to see gays persecuted? OK, then I'm a radical homosexual enabler.

And you're right, it isn't any of my business whether or not you're Christian, just like it isn't any of your business if two consenting adults of the same sex want to validate their relationship through a ceremony.

Isn't it "cute" how Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to enforce on the rest of us?

If you're going to boycott McDonald's do it for a good reason, like their crappy food. What in the world have gay people done to you?

Well, I've just had my last dollar menu double cheeseburger for quite a while. (I do occasionally grab one for a quick recharge.)

"mhoust

"McDonalds was right to end its relationship with the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. The biggest problem I see with the BGLT guadumvirate"

A coalition of several names for an oppressed group of people is hardly a 'quadrumvirate' in any sense of the term.

"is that they are engaged in PROMOTION of their lifestyle, not mere acceptance."

Nonsense. You can't 'promote' being queer any more than you can 'promote' being born black.

It's the Christian Right who believe you can 'promote' a sexual orientation by coercion and economic leverage, as you demonstrate here:

"McDonalds is a business. Businesses exist to maximize their profits. Businesses maximize profits by maximizing their customer base. Members of the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce may eat at McDonalds, but they are absolutely pathetic in numbers to families with children who eat there."

Families with children are *actually* the ones who probably shouldn't be eating that crap, anyway. Now they're to be encouraged to feed their kids that cause McDonalds caved to intolerance of gays?

Strange view of who's promoting what, you guys seem to have.

those many bloggers here who feel they are crusaders on a grand civil rights movement "standing up for gay rights" are just kidding themselves.

No one is persecuting homosexuals. In fact, it is the other way around. Opposition to the gay lifestyle (which for nearly all homosexuals is simply about an absolute right to sex on-demand) is what is being oppressed. Those who do not want to see it portrayed on television or having politically-correct doctrines about homosexual "love" taught in schools are the ones under duress. Please get it right.

The AFA has a habit of doing this: they call a boycott, then, some time later, call an end to it, claiming 'success' whether or not their boycott has has any measureable effect. This time, they're saying that McDonald's yielded when their representative stepped down for reasons of his own, and if I recall, last time, they claimed their boycott of Ford was a success because Ford sales levels had dropped, though that is more likely to be because of the failing economy and the fact that Ford makes pretty lousy cars than the boycott.

I've been wondering how McDonald's has stayed in business. None of my friends eat it anymore. I haven't been in one since I saw Super Size Me.

We know it is the diet of choice of the poor and uneducated. The inference on right-wing radicalism is just too delicious.

I've been boycotting McDonalds since 1983.

>> Others have the right to live as they chose or see fit. I don't care what others do since others DO NOT 'DIRECTLY' AFFECT my lfe. Everyone is entitled to live their life the way they wish and NO ONE has the right to judge it. So please, who are they 'DIRECTLY' HURTING? They are directly hurting NO ONE if they are NOT in your business and ask you for nothing. Let people live the way they chose and if they are adults and want to marry, what difference does it make 'DIRECTLY' to you or your life?

This is a fair question, and I will try to respond reasonably. I've no doubt that this will only bring further vitriol from the Christophobes that already infest this discussion and any discussion that dares suggest that homosexuality is anything other than a perfectly normal - indeed, beautiful - way of life.

Up front, I will agree with your basic premise in a very general way: How people live their lives does not directly affect my own. What consenting adults do in their own time and in their own homes is absolutely none of my business and, generally speaking, I don't care about it.

What I object to is the "mainstreaming" of homosexuality. The idea that it's OK for six-year-old schoolchildren to go to a lesbian wedding as part of a field trip. The idea that schoolchildren as young as kindergarten should be introduced to homosexuality (and yes, The Messiah was in favor of that).

Most of all, though, I greatly resent, as conservative writer John Derbyshire put it, the assumption, "rapidly becoming universal, that those of us sharing this opinion should keep their mouths shut if they know what's good for them, and should feel ashamed of thoughts that seem to me commonplace and reasonable. To put it another way, I object to the assault the homosexual lobbies are conducting on our most fundamental and instinctual feelings, sensibilities, and, yes, religious beliefs — the relentless effort to portray those feelings, those sensibilities and those beliefs as illegitimate, deplorable, and wicked. Distaste for homosexuality is about as fundamental a feature of human nature as you can find. It is nothing much to do with Leviticus, whatever the hate-God crowd tell you — it is, for example, widely felt in China, where nobody has even heard of Leviticus ... What irritates and annoys me is the dishonesty of homosexual propaganda — the massive campaign to pretend that human nature is something different from what it, in fact, is. I just don't like massive, organized lying."

PGR88:

So fighting to legislate laws that TAKE AWAY rights from gay people that heterosexuals are more than free to enjoy, the hatemongering that anti-gay groups inspire by villifying and denegrating them, not to mention the violence committed against gays - you don't consider that persecution?

" pgr88 Author Profile Page:

"those many bloggers here who feel they are crusaders on a grand civil rights movement "standing up for gay rights" are just kidding themselves."

Really. About what? That we have rights, and that you don't get to decide for a scorned 'other' how we should be allowed to live, work, love, and even die?

"No one is persecuting homosexuals."

Bullfeathers. You think you have every 'right' to do so, but you simply haven't walked that mile in our moccasins, seen the countless little ways people like you enable anyone to make fair game of us. People you don't even know.

" In fact, it is the other way around. Opposition to the gay lifestyle (which for nearly all homosexuals is simply about an absolute right to sex on-demand) is what is being oppressed."

'Sex on demand.' No. That's not 'the gay lifestyle.' Though a number of men have tried to 'demand' sex out of me cause they thought they were being 'oppressed' by me not being interested in them personally.

Forcefully 'demanded' on occasion, actually.

Not-obeying your commands is not 'oppresion.'

Oppressed people don't get to just-stop-freaking-out and have life go on just nicely.

" Those who do not want to see it portrayed on television or having politically-correct doctrines about homosexual "love" taught in schools are the ones under duress. Please get it right."

Oh, I got it right, already. You said it yourself, right there. It's about what you 'want to see.' What if you don't 'want to see' the 'sons of Ham' be able to live without your so-benificent guidance?

There's no 'duress' involved in simply teaching kids about reality... Not trying to pretend anyone who's gay must necessarily be stigmatized, erased, or oppressed in very real ways isn't 'duress.' Any kids who wants to grow up and 'disagree' with homosexuality remains perfectly free to. The 'duress' is in stigmatizing a minority cause you don't 'want' to see them as fully human citizens of America.

In lying about it even being possible. Cause of what *you* 'want to see.'

Education?

That's not about what you 'want to see.'

That's about unalienable rights.

Persecution: a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate a people because of their religion, race, or beliefs.

Exterminate? No.
Drive Away? Hmmm. From schools, absolutely. From polite society, sure.
Subjugate: Not on your life. I think many homosexuals would consider that foreplay.

Is homosexuality a religion? Of course not.
A race? Well, many seem to think so, but no.
A belief? Not in itself, but I'm sure "gay liberation" or some such nonsense qualifies.

So I will grant that there is *some* merit to this romantic notion you have of "homosexual persecution." But it seems to me that 95 percent of it is based on your own fears, phobias and propoganda.

Besides, trying to get a corporation to withdraw funds from a homosexual program is not persecution, it is part and parcel of living in a free society. Persecution, at the least, would involve some kind of punishment, no?

A group of us have actually started to use Facebook to call for a boycott of McDonald's for bowing to AFA's pressure. We think there's a lot more folks interested in diversity and tolerance than there are interested in bigotry and hatred:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=52992942432

I'm still boycotting PEZ for not recalling those gun shaped dispensers from years ago...

Oh, the hypocrisy like this comment from Obamaslady:
"Others have the right to live as they chose or see fit. I don't care what others do since others DO NOT 'DIRECTLY' AFFECT my lfe." so, why restrict marriage to 2 adults? why is polygamy outlawed...do they affect your life? How about 2 14 year olds marrying? How about first cousins? Siblings anyone? Yeah, marriage is legally restricted in many ways and I don't hear people crying about it. Homosexuals can and do live their lives very nicely, thank you, I know many who are wealthy, prosperous and leaders in the community.(Let me head off the outcry that just being heterosexual does not guarantee one a pain free, prejudice free or sadness free existence.) But there is no cultural or natural precedent for considering same sex marriage "normal".... I know of NO society that has it. Polygamy was and in some places still is practiced around the world; if anything IT should be made legal. But I guess until they get a big contingent in Hollywood and the media that their cause will not be heard. Wow, what prejudice!

At the core of some of these arguments against the "mainstreaming" of homosexuality seems to be a larger argument against a pluralistic society.

No one is forcing anything on you when they simply assert a right to full citizenship in the public square.

If you believe homosexuality is a sin, then I suggest you avoid gay relationships.

Treat others as you would want to be treated -- does that ring a bell for anyone?

The Religious Right did not pursue the McDonalds boycott far enough. Its leaders should have insisted that the burger chain expell its current Ronald mascot, who is too fond of children for an adult unattached to a wife or family, and replace him with a preacher in clown garb. CAFA's leaders would fill the role well.

The reason that gay couples want to be recognized as married is varied. Some just want the recognition and respect for their decision. But for a large majority there are other reasons. Imaging committing to someone in a relationship for years, and when they become deathly sick, you are not allowed to visit them in the hospital because you are not family. And then when they pass away, the plans for burial that the two of you have discussed and agreed upon are overridden by their immediate family, and you are not even invited to the ceremony. And on the financial side, the estate that you have grown together does not pass automatically to you estate tax free as it would for married heterosexual couples. Plus, they can't share company provided health insurance plans. So, is it too much to ask that homosexual couples be given the same rights as heterosexual couples in these areas? I think not.

>> No one is forcing anything on you when they simply assert a right to full citizenship in the public square.

"Full citizenship" does not entail teaching perversion to children. It's just that simple.

I participated in the AFA's boycott of both Ford and McDonalds, and I am very pleased, and proud, of the outcome.

When I spoke to the owner of our nearby McDonald's franchise about my participation in the boycott, he told me he and the vast majority of other franchisees nationwide opposed the company's actions; that it was initiated without input from franchisees; and that as a group, the franchisees agreed with the AFA in opposing it. In other words, franchisees didn't want the company to inject itself into political issues, thinking it best to keep the company neutral in issues. Furthermore he told me that a small group in the company initiated the company's promotion of the homosexual life-style, and did so without a consensus of opinion, from either its franchisees, its employees, or its customers. This is typically how such things get started. And all AFA was asking the company to do, was to be neutral in the political aspects of homosexual issues.

All companies should do the same. These are issues best left to ballot boxes and to the courts, and not to American commerce.

I boycott any faith-based boycotts. While its comforting for those who need comfort, any faith that thinks it knows the true mind of god or the universe or whatever idol you worship, forgets one thing--we're human, how can we possible know what god, gods or the universe think(s)?! I know, I know, the faith backer will say, because god told us in the Bible, Koran, Rigveda, whatever. Sorry, but why would an all powerful being need to tell us anything? Its not like we matter or that god needs our opinion. Moreover, why would an all powerful being need US to worship it? That sound awfully emotive, awfully human and these are supposed to GOD, i.e. not fragile and made of dust and emotions.

So, I don't think God tell us what to engage in or not engage in. So God certainly wouldn't tell us who to boycott, people (with agendas) tell us who to boycott.... Some, like Gandhi and King were right, some like CAFA or SBC were wrong. So, you decide.

"I think it's especially respectful (and charming!) when homosexuals look at your children, then at you, and call you a "f-ing breeder." I marvel at their tolerance of normal biology."

--Oh c'mon. Do you expect people to believe this has actually happened to you? You are making it up.

Frankly, I wish all hate-mongers would stuff themselves with McDonald's food each and every day, ensuring that they die an early death. Then maybe the world would be left to rest of us.

I can dream can't I???

EASMYTHE begins with "Marriage is between a man and a woman." This is followed with a long diatribe about how the Bible tells us so. All this presupposes that Christianity governs. No, wait, I take that back. It assumes one segment of those who call themselves Christians govern. After all, I'm a Christian and I don't buy this logic. I can't find anywhere in the Bible that says "thou shalt go forth and force nonbelievers to act as if they believe." And this isn't a country only of Christians, by the way, so why are we trying to force everyone to act like a Christian?

It's often said that "We're protecting the TRADITIONAL concept of marriage." Which tradition? And how far back do we go to find this tradition? In some countries it's traditional to take more than one wife. In at least one culture it's even acceptable to marry a cow. It's all nonsense pushed by homophobes. It's time the good citizens of this country put down their collective foot and just said "no" to such bigotry.

"No one is persecuting homosexuals. In fact, it is the other way around."

Really? Gay people are denying straights jobs, housing, health care, stable family structures, old age survivor and pension benefits, and so on?

Really?

God created people in great and glorious diversity, including people who are gay. Every species has demonstrated homosexuality, evidence of a genetic factor for prediposition to being gay. As created by God -- a God of love and compassion -- it is against the will of God, I believe, to persecute homosexuals and deny them their basic, fully equal rights in American society. Those who userp the banner of "traditional values" and "Christian beliefs" are sadly mistaken, filled with hatred and lack of compassion and motivated to hurt other's dignity by attempting to take away their human rights. If you are in this group of people, God can and will forgive you if you repent and stop persecuting gay people and react, instead, in embracing love. Fight for equality, not to deny people the full obligations, rights and benefits of society such as marriage, protection from job discrimination and the right to serve openly in the military (BTW, there are tens of thousands of gay people serving this country in the military at this very moment and they deserve our full respect!)

""Full citizenship" does not entail teaching perversion to children. It's just that simple."
... I hardly think it is a perversion for children to be taught that love takes many forms just as race takes many forms ... we are almost out of the dark days of racism .. it is time we embraced the teachings of Jesus and got over homophobia!
I will boycott any group that attempts to diminish the free expression of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
By the way, the boycott against Ford did not work ... Ford remained "free of repressive dogma" (FORD)!

"Full citizenship" does not entail teaching perversion to children. It's just that simple."

Well, then, take the Old Testament away from your little broodlings! I seem to remember some pretty perverse stuff in there... what was that about a couple of daughters playing hide the salami with their father?

This action by these 'Christians' sortof exposes the lie that the Christian Right used during the gay marriage debates of recent years. They consistently said that they just wanted to preserve the 'sanctity' of marriage, that they didn't want to do anything else.

Turns out their agenda was, of course, demonization of gays at all levels, even down to things as silly as this.

>> --Oh c'mon. Do you expect people to believe this has actually happened to you? You are making it up.

I really couldn't care less what you believe or don't. I would tell you that it did indeed happen, and that it happened in 2002 on Conn. Ave. NE in Washington, D.C. but why bother? You wouldn't believe it.

Regardless of whether you believe it, why do you find it shocking that homosexuals can commit acts of intolerance?

Yeah I'm working on a boycott of the WaPo..But of course that would mean it would have only Obama readers...

RE: ""Full citizenship" does not entail teaching perversion to children. It's just that simple."

The only perversion I see here is the open display of bigotry.

Yes, yes, the usual rant. Polygamy - why not legalize it? As long as everybody involved is a consenting adult, I couldn't care less whether a man has 5 wives or a woman has 5 husbands. 14 year olds - the whole 'consenting adult' bit seems to apply here. As a society we have decided that, at 14, you are too young to fully comprehend the responsibilities of a contract (which is what a marriage is). Though I must say that, during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, it doesn't appear to me that the Catholic Church or Church of England had much of a problem with 14 year olds getting married. As for first cousins and siblings, isn't most of that based on the Bible? There could be an argument made that it is to protect the health of any offspring as the probability of certain genetic disorders increases when two genetically related people reproduce, but that is a recent argument as it requires an understanding of genetics. As I said, as long as all parties involved are consenting adults, I couldn't care less what they do in their bedrooms.

I see no reason to deny committed homosexual couples the legal rights and responsibilities conveyed by a state sanctioned marriage. I've heard plenty of people say "this doesn't change anything" but I personally think states should stop calling it a 'marriage license' and call it a civil union (committment license?) and leave the term 'marriage' up to the religious institutions. I've heard plenty say that the rights of marriage can be conveyed to gays through powers of attorney and other such legal documents, but the fact is that not all those rights CAN be conveyed. For example, a man can not be compelled to testify against his wife and vice versa. That right can not be conveyed by any other means than marriage if I understand the law correctly. Powers of attorney can convey medical decision making authority - but how many court cases have we read about a person's family challenging the power of attorney in court? Whether they win or not is irrelevant. They still cost the gay spouse lots of money in attorney fees. This would hardly ever be an issue to last 10 minutes in a court room for a heterosexual couple, Terri Schiavo's case was a rare exception. Social Security suvivor benefits can not be granted through any other means but marriage. Neither can many other benefits enjoyed by married heterosexual couples.

I can see no reason to deny gays the right to become spouses in the eyes of the state and federal governments other than religion induced homophobia or the 'homosexuality isn't natural' argument. The truth is homosexual behavior has been observed in HUNDREDS of different species. It may not be the prevailing behavior, but it is there. One can hardly, in my opinion, make the 'it isn't natural' argument.

"Regardless of whether you believe it, why do you find it shocking that homosexuals can commit acts of intolerance?"

I'll trade you. I'll suffer the occasional indignity of someone calling me 'breeder' if you take on what gays face - everything from being denied jobs, housing, health care, the ability to adopt, the ability to have a stable family structure, social security and pension benefits, old age survivor benefits.......

And of course there are the gay bashings. Gays are routinely beaten up, sometimes even killed. I'd venture to say that very few if any straight people are beaten to death by gays for being straight.

So is it a deal? Can we trade?

I boycotted McDonald's a long time ago because of their bad food, I can heat that kind of slop in the microwave myself for a lot less money.

I don't know exactly what the "homosexual agenda" is, nor to be honest to I really care. But I do so enjoy how much their existence brings out the real true colors of the christians. Hatred is a much more convincing unifying argument for True Believers, he who hates best gets to heaven.

By reading the posts of gay bashers I realized that it must be very difficult to be a Republican these days. Think about it; they sit on blogs and lecture other's about their superior viewpoints on religion, government, etc. but when it comes to cleaning their side of the street; stone silence. Who even cares what they think? As a gay man, my only objection is that they are infringing on my freedom of religion and rights as defined in the Declaration of Independence. There a lots of religions willing and ready to marry gay folks. Why should anyone listen to these morally depraved idiots who continue to vote Republican and hate folks because that's what they do best. The right to privacy in this country, for everyone, is under attack, the issue is not about gay rights, its about keeping big brother out of the lives of American's, including the right wing zealots. Too bad we can hunt down these loud mouth key board saints and confront them at their front doors, or the grocery. It is not illegal to be an idiot in this country, it is also not illegal to confront those who have clearly stuck their nose in another's business where it doesn't belong. Today, gays and lesbians, tomorrow you. The only issue is the right to privacy, oh and yea, the ability to lock up people who aren't willing to defend the constitution, bill of rights and declaration of independence.

Ok. Wait a minute, here:

" twasneva "
"Persecution: a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate a people because of their religion, race, or beliefs."

"Exterminate? No.
Drive Away? Hmmm. From schools, absolutely. From polite society, sure.
Subjugate: Not on your life. I think many homosexuals would consider that foreplay."

Read that back to yourself and substitute 'Jew' or 'Redheads' or 'Mormons.'

It's not on *your* life. It's on *my* life.

You are trying to say, 'Homosexuals consider subjugation 'foreplay.' Anything you do to them is just part of *them,* their 'perversion,* but not, of course, you. Not you. Them.

Exactly what non-people are not being oppressed by this treatment, again, Christian?

Do you know how many people with an inflated sense of their martial prowess felt fully 'justified' trying to 'fix' my queerness with their members?

Deniable, of course, 'Queers are crazy pervs who like it.'

Onward, Christian soldiers.

Seriously. Can you even *see* yourselves, self-righteous homophobes?

Cause I sure seen you.

""Full citizenship" does not entail teaching perversion to children. It's just that simple"

I see, so you believe that telling kids that, sometimes, people have two mommies or two daddies, that's perversion. I fail to see how that's a lot different than telling kids that most people have a mommy and a daddy. All you're doing is telling them that, hey, look, these people are different in this respect. Is different wrong?

What if, forty years ago, we were having this same discussion about interracial couples? As with this discussion, it centered on something considered taboo at the time. Some people didn't like the idea, and so they tried to force everyone to follow along, regardless of whether they agreed or not.

That's my problem with these gay-bashers. If you don't like it, hey, fine. I could care less. But whatever you think about this country being a Christian nation, I got news for you: It isn't. It's a nation founded on the belief that people can do basically whatever they want. Deal with it.

Well, folks, this "Radical Homosexual Enabler" has to head out the door. Gonna go to McDonald's and get me a McClogger with a McMilkshake.

Better yet, maybe I'll go home and have soup.

To all you right-wing Christians out there: please stop trying to hurt gays.

Thanks
RHE

Donald Wildmon goes after gays because he knows he can't get away with attacking blacks. One day hopefully all bigotry will be seen for what it it. Donald Wildmon is a pathetic little man with a perverse obsession with homosexuals and pornography.

On the original column, btw:

One of the way-too-technical-to-get-a-frisson-of self-righteous-indignation-from-dittoheads ways that our actual economic and social structures get suborned to other agendas than freedom and good government is inadvertently-hit on here:

"I'm not sure corporations can experience shame (we're not seeing much evidence of it on Wall Street these days), but I do think they work."

I don't think they work. Not for anyone but themselves, and here's why:

'Corporate personhood.'

Corporations were at some point granted all the rights of individuals, but are held to none of the social obligations.

This broke some things.

But that's a little more complicated than what you can contextualize a bible about.

Whenever I see a preacher get on their soapbox about something, I becme uttlerly convinced they are guilty of the abhorent behavior they ostensibly condemn. Must be some sort of pschological tick wherein people who hate something within themselves rail against it, as if that alone absolves them of the "sin." Remember Jimmy Swaggart?

Yep, I am convinced that, in my opinion, Donald Wildmon has a stash of gay kiddie porn in his closet. And that he and James Dobson sit around looking at it.

I doubt many liberals who really and truly care about gay rights eat at McDonalds anyway, although more conservative blue collar people do. And most people couldn't really care less. So as a calculated corporate decision, this was a smart move, because it really does minimize the number of customers or potential customers who are pissed off at McDonalds. So suck it up.

From the Christian groups press release: "It also was revealed Happy Meals profits had been used to send 56 McDonald's staff members to a meeting in San Diego to strategize about promoting homosexuality within the company."

Hmmm. Wonder exactly HOW they were doing that? Mandatory group trips to gay bars? Bathroom breaks? "Promoting homosexuality" -- what planet do these right wing nut groups come from?

See, on the 'corporate personhood' thing, (I lost a paragraph to sum up the below. No. A corporation *can't* feel shame, or go to jail, get deported, or, in any way be accountable as a real human citizen it hurts would be.

As one conservative Christian claimed, in order to maximize profits, a corporation has a duty to profit off *families who shouldn't be eating that crap* even if it involves hurting innocents.

While remaining unaccountable to civil rights law, of course.

Same thing that brought about this big crash.

Corporations can't go to jail. But the looters in charge can sure make a buck wherever it can be had at the expense of fundamental rights, liberties, fairness, and civilities.

"So suck it up."

Why. Cause according to some fundies, 'we consider it foreplay?'

Cheeseburgers must be a least three times more sinful than homos (Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26, and Deuteronomy 14:21). Maybe the AFA should be boycotting Micky D's for that reason?

MHoust wrote: "The biggest problem I see with the BGLT guadumvirate is that they are engaged in PROMOTION of their lifestyle, not mere acceptance."
==============================================
Promotion? Gee, I've been hanging out with gays and lesbians for as long as I can remember, and I've never been recruited. Not once. Nor have any of my straight friends. Maybe we're not cute enough?

Oh, wait. They did ask me to work on campaigns to stop violence against gays and intersex people, to end discrimination against them for housing, jobs, etc. Is this what you mean?

So THAT's the gay agenda! Employment, shelter, not having someone go upside your head and get away with it. Do I support it? I guess that makes me...
-Another radical homosexual enabler

"The Bible is written for a special group of people that were foreordained unto eternal life."

So then why do they insist on annoying the rest of us by talking about it? I think the rapture isn't a favor to the faithful - it's a favor to the rest of us, who will have seven years of peace after all the small-minded, bigoted, and downright silly people are lifted off the planet to live in self-congratulatory union with their weird little God (stone people for planting in the wrong field? whole sections on how to deal with menstruating women? seriously, does anyone doubt that this guy is seriously disturbed?). I say good riddance to 'em. I'm looking forward to the tribulation - maybe I can finally read a biology text at the bus stop without getting a lecture on the evils of evolution from some fundie wingnut.

CARLACLAWS:
So THAT's the gay agenda! Employment, shelter, not having someone go upside your head and get away with it. Do I support it? I guess that makes me...
-Another radical homosexual enabler
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the club! We RHE's don't bite - except as foreplay.

US is so backward.

We don't need democratic election, we only need some lunatic declare he/she can hear god, and then the Americans will make him/her a ruler.

"Welcome to the club! We RHE's don't bite - except as foreplay."

In the interests of properly 'promoting the homosexual lifestyle,' I can neither confirm nor deny any reports of anyone biting anyone.

And any impression that reality is actually far sillier than 'girl-on-girl porn' might lead virtuous moralists to conclude we're bad, bad girls for, are strictly off the record.

Republican fundamentalists are the scourge of the Earth. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. They help to comprise the fourth of the US that thinks George W. Bush is doing a "heckuva" job. It's time to boycott all corporations that have contributed to George W. Bush. Start with MBNA America - they were his #1 corporate contributor in Y2K. Rightwing-extremist Republican fundies just don't get it - most people in modern times don't think like backwoods Puritans and Pilgrams. Sarah Palin and her radical fundamental views have no place in the White House.

Come to think of it, I'm kinda wondering what source *other* than the Bible and maybe Sex In The City has ever suggested fourty year old women are somehow subject to any kind of irrepressible libido in the first place?

Gods.

Can I have my civil rights, now?

I find it laughable that the Christian-fascist right wing always fail to see their own hypocrisy. They say that fundamentalist Islamic states are wrong and immoral because they impose religion. Your reasons for banning gay-marriage and denying them equal rights otherwise guaranteed under the 14th Amendment are all because The Bible says that it's wrong. Am I the only one who sees the similarity there?? They also like to pick and choose which parts of "The Good Book" to reference. The very same Book (Leviticus) that they always tout as reason for banning any and all things "gay" also condones slavery. The Bible also mentions slavery in Exodus. Exodus 21:7-11 actually provides guidelines for sex slaves but I don't see the Bible-thumping hordes out there screaming for people to buy their daughters. Exodus 21:20-21 actually says that's it's ok to beat your slave as long as they survive said beating. I also don't see them picketing and protesting for the removal of women's rights (1 Corinthians 14:34 and Ephesians 5:22-24). Oh, and let's not forget "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Yet they claim The Bible should be the pillar of family values in America. I'm a Christian but those aren't values I want to live by.

Since the sodomites and their friends seem to enjoy mocking the idea of a "homosexual agenda," I thought it might be a good idea to put its items on display. I'd like to see somebody disagree.

The goals of the homosexual movement include:

censoring biblical condemnations of homosexuality and evidence that the "gay gene" is a hoax[5] [6]
establishing affirmative action for homosexuals[7]
expand hate crimes legislation to include sexual orientation[8]
ending the military's and Boy Scout's restrictions on homosexuality[9]
promote homosexuality in schools[10]
in places like Massachusetts and California — where the gay lobby is the strongest — it starts as early as pre-school. They tell seven- or eight-year-old boys — "If you only like boys, there's a chance you may be homosexual." Or — "If you only like girls, maybe you are lesbian." Well, at that age, all members of the opposite sex "have cooties."
You're planting a seed that can totally mess up the normal development process later, when at 12 or 14, kids enter the age of sexual confusion and discovering the opposite sex. [11]
promote science that legitimizes homosexuality, such as claims of a never-identified gay gene[12]
force businesses to accommodate their lifestyle
Suing an online dating website for discrimination [13]
getting more rights in prison
Gay and Lesbian Prisoners in California Allowed Conjugal Visits [14]
The state-by-state push for same-sex marriage can be viewed as a means to the above goals, or a goal in itself.[15]

New Hampshire law makes same-sex civil unions legal [16]
Opposing Christian Agenda
Liberals are critical of Christian groups that oppose homosexuality. These criticisms include Christian activities of:

Soliciting donations
Encouraging email activism
Producing and disseminating gay reform information
Influencing local media in what stories they produce
Lobbying local, state and federal government officials to vote in the desired way on pending legislation

"Hmmm. Wonder exactly HOW they were doing that? Mandatory group trips to gay bars? Bathroom breaks? "Promoting homosexuality" -- what planet do these right wing nut groups come from?"

With Larry Craig and Ted Haggard as the keynote speakers, no doubt!

Does this mean that, if I eat a Big Mac, I'll leave my husband and give in to my girl-crush on Rachel Maddow? :D

Jesus Christ never condemned one gay during his time on earth (it's not in the Bible), nor did he eat two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, onions, pickles, on a sesame seed bun.

People who think that there is a "homosexual agenda" and that it's a "lifestyle choice" do not have a logical bone/neuron/etc. in their body. Why would people choose a lifestyle that makes them the enemy of millions in this country and can cause massive problems in relationships within their own nuclear family? Gay people are born gay, and they should have the same rights as everyone else. Now I think I'll boycott McDonald's for caving to the nut jobs.

Rightwing-extremist Republican fundamentalists are a little bit funny. They oppose gay marriage, yet they support harassing male pages in Congress, hiring male prostitutdes for massages, and soliticing gaysex in public restrooms. Where's the logic in that?

Crusher:

While I am a rightwing extremist, I'm neither a fundamentalist nor a Republican. And I don't support any of those things you mentioned. Weird, huh?

I guess it is Wendy's and Burger King from now on! Shame on McDonald's. I am serious, for them to end an existing relationship because some christian hate group is going to boycott them is abhorrent.

I guess it is easier for me since I drive a little over a mile for a Big Mac and I have a Burger King much closer by. Whopper and Big Mac are about the same to me but I do like Mickey's fries more... I guess that will help me loose some weight.

McDonald's is in the business of selling fast food to anyone with cash. If McDonald's management wants a business relationship with the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, presumably to sell more Happy Meals, what is the harm in that? Gay and Lesbians have to eat afterall. I doubt if McDonald's is making any kind of moral decision in this, but who knows. I would guess McDonald's simply wants to grow its fact food business.

Now if the Christian American Family Association is attempting to 'starve out' Gay/Lesbian customers, then I think they have crossed a line. This kind of stand by Christian leaders is always confusing to me, because Christians talk frequently about FORGIVENESS and TOLERANCE. But maybe, the notion of "Love Your Neighbor, As Yourself" does not apply to "different folks".

I am not afraid of Gay/Lesbians, so maybe that has something to do with my viewpoint. But I live on the West Coast, that is perhaps more accepting of "alternative lifestyles".

Would those Christians want to implement some kind of ID card, that allows McDonald's to sell Happy Meals to certified/approved customers. Should McDonald's be selling Happy Meals to felons, or foreigners, or Blue eyed folks? I mean to say, McDonald's does not appear to be breaking any laws. Maybe the Christian American Family Association is violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 - prohibiting discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin by federal and state governments as well as some public places.

But is there a courageous prosecutor who would go after the Christian American Family Association -- a so-called lobbyist organization?

The real shame here is that so many folks actually eat at McMurders!
AND TO ADMIT IT!

I want to join in tho so what I'll do is hit McDung drive-thrus, order up a buttload of "food"...and then change my mind at the window (and let them know WHY)

>> I want to join in tho so what I'll do is hit McDung drive-thrus, order up a buttload of "food"...and then change my mind at the window (and let them know WHY)

That'll be as effective as it is mature.

If they want to legalize homosexuality, which is a form of sickness, they might as well legalize drug addiction and pornography.

Have you found same sex dogs or cows sleeping together? It's simply NOT NORMAL.

Oh-It'll be effective...
McMurders management loses sleep over every wasted fry and straw...

" twasneva

"Since the sodomites and their friends seem to enjoy mocking the idea of a "homosexual agenda," I thought it might be a good idea to put its items on display. I'd like to see somebody disagree."

If you insist. We do aim to please.

"The goals of the homosexual movement include:

"censoring biblical condemnations of homosexuality"

Not that I don't believe gay men are ill-treated, and unjustly, by the Christianist agenda, but, exactly where is my same-sex *female* patnership actually even mentioned in the Bible?

Not that that ever stopped a Republican, but, give it to us 'uncensored,' since you seem to figure this 'agenda' justifies some sense of you never needing be called on your hatred of *lesbian* same sex partnerships.

That ain't in the Bible.

So happens I looked. As have many others.

So, ...you're abridging my civil rights *why* again?

Speak of the horrible oppression I visit upon you through Federal government.

Go nuts.

" spidermean2 Author Profile Page:

"If they want to legalize homosexuality, which is a form of sickness, they might as well legalize drug addiction and pornography."

I hate to break the news to you, Spidey, but, actually, addiction (to certain drugs) is quite legal. As well as is all the porn you Christianists just happen to seem to use to get your information about my 'lifestyle.'

Look, I don't want to cause any trouble...

I am madly in love with Rachel Maddow ... and there are further complications in this matter that we need not go into here....

Is this legal? Would anyone boycott me for this?

The suspense is KILLIN' me!

Firstly, McDonald's food is unhealthy, environmentally disastrous (rain forests cut down to raise McDonald's beef) and part of an exploitative corporate machine.

It is unfortunate, to say the least, that a boycott by religious extremists can hold any sway in this day and age.

To all you folks who think you have a right to decide how other people live, how does the relationship of people you don't know and will never meet affect you? Do you not see that the very ideological perspective you are holding is part of the problem in this world? People need to learn to accept even that which they disagree with, with exceptions like harming others and harming the planet. You are free to believe whatever you want, why do you feel that it is your right to impose your choices upon others? Again I ask, row does the relationship of people you don't know and will never meet affect you? Only by you focusing on how it bugs you, but it is actually none of your business. Please stop trying to impose your life choices on other people. It is rude.

Guess I'll not eat at McDonald's again. What a bunch of cowards.

Too bad that so many families will get torn apart when they learn a family member is gay.

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:27)

I mean, hey, though, Spidey: If you don't like drugs, consider that when Rush Limbaugh popularized all this nonsense and hatred in the right-wing Christian community, consider this:

He was on drugs when he said it.

Might wanna re-evaluate.

...and for the record: A boycott is not my "weapon of choice". There are far more fun methods of battling the christians but I'm afraid to go to jail...so the boycott has to do...

SPIDERMEAN2 :
If they want to legalize homosexuality, which is a form of sickness, they might as well legalize drug addiction and pornography.

Have you found same sex dogs or cows sleeping together? It's simply NOT NORMAL.

Spidey, have you ever been to a farm? All kinds of same and different sex and species animals hang out together, guard each other when they sleep, and even *gulp* have sexual experiences together! That's nature dude. Live with it.

Spidermeanz, I think you need to read your bible. The rules of god did change. In the old test. god had prostitutes and fornicators stoned. In the new test he said let he who is without sin throw the first stone. That sounds like change to me. The one thing this world needs less of is religion. You people can't even get your own book straight.

I am a Christian, and also a medical doctor. Most Conservative Christians are misled by their preachers with the issue of homosexuality. Biblically, what God condemned was the CRIMINAL ACTS of homosexuals, such as in Sodom and Gomorah, and NOT condemning the homosexuals who were living normal and decent life. Jesus himself never discriminate gays and non-gays. What bible says about unnatural sex is straight people who conduct gay sex and gay people who conduct straight sex. Gay or not it's been planted in the gene by God when we were in our mothers' womb. There's nothing such "choose to be gay" or "alternative life style" so you will be hated and discriminated? That's insane. In this country gays demand equal rights. I think that's acceptable and they deserve it. God create us all equal. The issue of Gay Agenda is just a silly hoax. That's not true and it's just a tactic to scare people who does not really understand the political side of this matter. Gays does NOT want special rights, they just want EQUAL rights. That's it. NO LESS NO MORE. It's time for America to wake up and stop the unnecessary battle against each others, let's all hand in hand to build this "Land of the Free". God Bless America.

Yes lets legalize drugs and pornography! Make all those Christians that use these services pay taxes for them. That way the government can monitor and regulate them. Let those taxes pay for the enforcement, and then we can free up or police forces for going after real crime.

Lets not let gays marry. That way they don't have to pay the tax penalties for being married, or have to get lawyers like heterosexual couples have to do to get divorces.

Much of the opinions expressed here are so anti-Christian! Hypocrites each and every one of you. Shame on you all.

I mean, not to overemphasize this, but when Rush popularized the notion there was some nefarious 'gay agenda' like extremist preachers who like to burn the Easter Bunny in effigy and then claim it's a Pagan conspiracy when Christmas isn't a time of obligatory Jesus references...

When he said all these things, he was on *drugs.*

He even duly repented.

But no one in the Right ever looked back at all the things he said *while* on brainkillers. :)

mtnmanVT- spidey actually kind of put me in mind of grasshoppers. Of course it doesn't turn out so well for the male but i bet spidey's wife would be really grateful :-)

The sad thing about spidey2 is that there is no way to get through to him. He really doesn't want to know. So you can't have a conversation with him, all we can do is react to the outrageously discriminatory things he says and believes. I wouldn't want to be in his head, it's got to be a dark place indeed.

"Yes lets legalize drugs and pornography!"

are we still not past the point of realizing that most porn is in fact entirely *legal?* As a matter of fact, most indignant Christian conservatives seem to get their ideas of what my 'lifestyle' is about *from* porn.

stantheman1 said "Errol Smythe - I think modern pharmacology could really help you."
_______________________________________________
No mate. He's beyond hope.

But talking about modern pharma - I want an ounce of whatever it is that easmythe is smoking! Woohoo - wackier than Kerouac and Kookier than Phil Dick.

I'm an old straight married bloke and I gotta admit that I would be real upset if I found out that my son was a nasty perverted weirdo. Fundamental Christianity just ain't natural!

spidermean2 Author Profile Page:

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:27)
==================================================
Yeah, but we're not Romans, we're Americans

SPIDERMEAN2 :
Soon there will be no more boycotts coz God will settle it Himself. He would burn the cities who practice homosexuality. That's the prophecy and nobody can bend it. It's bound to happen.

The rules of God doesn't change from the time of Sodom upto now.
---
Your ignorance of your own scripture is showing. The sin of Sodom was the lack of hospitality that the city fathers showed the visiting angels.

Spidey the more I read your posts the more I really think you should get professional psychological help. Your posts border on the psychotic, are mean spirited and inaccurate when you try to quote scripture. Spidey, really, sign off and talk with someone, for your own sake.

What happens if pigs or cows start thinking they are suited for same sex? We will all die of starvation coz their kind would have ceased eons ago. IT'S NOT A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP. Why can't humans understand that it's a SICKNESS?

". Biblically, what God condemned was the CRIMINAL ACTS of homosexuals, such as in Sodom and Gomorah, and NOT condemning the homosexuals who were living normal and decent life."

It wasn't even about any homosexuality at all.

Sodom's 'sin' was actually, in the story, about the place getting *so paranoid( that they were willing to try and force Lot to violate then-most-sacred-laws of hospitality by turning out guests under his roof to a mob.

Someone read sex into it later.

spidermean2

"What happens if pigs or cows start thinking they are suited for same sex? We will all die of starvation coz their kind would have ceased eons ago. IT'S NOT A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP. Why can't humans understand that it's a SICKNESS?"

If you stop thinking of women as pigs and cows, and as you said earlier, as 'b-words,'

..well, this might become clearer.

Meanwhile, Christian. Been kind to anyone lately?

What happens if pigs or cows start thinking they are suited for same sex? We will all die of starvation coz their kind would have ceased eons ago. IT'S NOT A NORMAL RELATIONSHIP. Why can't humans understand that it's a SICKNESS?
---

Never fear Spidey! Throughout time the percentage of same sex relationships in any population, human or animal, has been below 15%. Cows and pigs and chickens will continue to breed so you can eat them.

If you really into research, you can find a lot of findings show that among straight animals, there are also gay animals. It's natural. God creates them.

Oh, yeah, btw:

"We will all die of starvation coz their kind would have ceased eons ago"

When people die of starvation today, Spidey, it's cause there's *too many* people breeding right now, not too few.

If you want to think we're all about nothing but breeding, and want to claim we're 'intelligently-designed' (rather than designed for planned obsolescence) ...consider that we all need intimacy.

Squeezing out as many puppies as possible individually is not necessarily going to serve *any* good if we all starve because our numbers are so many.

I may be queer, but I have nephews.

I can't help them if I keep getting your sexually-dysfunctional boot in the face.

If you believe we are designed, look at the design. We ain't made for this. Nor for what you think it 'should' be.

Besides, I thought you didn't believe in 'eons...' As an 'engineer, ' of course.

McDonald's would promote gay/lesbian relationship again once they can find a method how gay cows can reproduce. There would come a time when they will have to declare that IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

Let us just learn to accept that IT'S NOT NORMAL. Why force an issue that's ABNORMAL?

SPIDERMEAN2 :
McDonald's would promote gay/lesbian relationship again once they can find a method how gay cows can reproduce. There would come a time when they will have to declare that IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

Let us just learn to accept that IT'S NOT NORMAL. Why force an issue that's ABNORMAL?
----

Spidey...what's it to you, how other people live? Really, how does it affect your life?

Thank goodness, 'cuz I'm a Jew with a positive attitude towards bacon!

Somehow my comment was truncated. It was supposed to be in response to "Cows and pigs and chickens will continue to breed so you can eat them."

Congrats on the end of your boycott, CAFA. Now you can go back to feeding your children at this fine restaurant chain. It's 'great' to see you focusing on the truly important issues of the day, like dissolving the relationship between the fattening, artery clogging, mass cattle harvesting McDonald's and a human right's organization. I don't eat at McD's anymore but I will continue to use their bathroom's when on the road - it seems appropriate.

"Earlier this week, the conservative Christian American Family Association announced that it was calling off its five-month boycott of McDonald's after the fast-food giant ended it relationship with the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. AFA has led boycotts against Ford, Disney and Hallmark for similar reasons."

The First Amendment of The United States Constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...." The First Amendment clearly prohibits the establishment of any law based upon passages in The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, or any other religious document. As so many requests for anti-LGBTQ (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Questioning) laws are based upon religious beliefs, anti-Gay laws are unconstitutional, as they are respecting establishments of religion. On the other hand, those religious institutions cannot be made by law to grant rights to LGBTQ individuals, as such a law would also be unconstitutional.

As for the aforementioned religious documents that are used as references to support anti-LGBTQ beliefs and promote anti-LGBTQ legislation.... Before these documents were committed to writing, they were oral traditions that communicated information from one person to another. Anyone who has played the game of "Telephone" knows how even a simple phrase or sentence can be totally changed when passed from one person to another, even in a small group. Imagine if at one time, G-d or Allah gave sacred words about how to live life to an individual or a prophet. By the time those words were put into writing, who knows what changes were made, either inadvertently or intentionally?

For those who believe unconditionally in the sacred writings of their religion, how do they reconcile their beliefs that condemn the ownership and treatment of slaves, as discussed in The Bible, and yet condone anti-LGBTQ beliefs and legislation? Are these individuals hypocrites, or selective believers who use religious documentation only when it is convenient to support hatred of "that one," a derisive, devisive, reference to any person who is different? It makes no difference. The Bible is not the law of the land. Neither The Koran nor The Torah are the law of the land. The Constitution IS the law, and the Fourteenth Amendment of The Constitution states, "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." LGBTQ persons don't need or want "special rights"--they only need the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution enforced, which guarantees all LGBTQ individuals are not denied "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States," and that all LGBTQ individuals are not denied "equal protection of the laws."

So, call off all the boycotts, and call on the government to enforce the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution! That means equal rights for LGBTQ individuals, and freedom for persons of faith to practice their faith.

Spidey - Cows are bred - most do not just reproduce. Besides, they don't even have to put them into the same pastures with the bulls anymore now that they have artifical insemination. Where have you been living?
GJKBEAR

I raised a nephew whom I believe was straight until somebody who I think has gay tendency got near that boy.

The boy ACQUIRED the "disease". I think that is sad. What was normal before became ABNORMAL.

You fathers there should guard your children and don't just leave them to people who has this "tendency".

VERY SAD, VERY SAD. Im have a hard time "deprogramming" the kid. I have to repeat it again and again that IT'S NOT NORMAL.

It's like cancer. Very hard to cure.

I think we can come to a consensus that spidey is abnormal. Or at least, very sad. He will cling to words written thousands of years ago, in a language he does not know, and yet he believes them so implicitly he has forgotten the golden wrule hich is the basis of practically every major religion, including the one he claims to be : Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

SPIDERMEAN2 :
I raised a nephew whom I believe was straight until somebody who I think has gay tendency got near that boy.

The boy ACQUIRED the "disease". I think that is sad. What was normal before became ABNORMAL.

You fathers there should guard your children and don't just leave them to people who has this "tendency".

VERY SAD, VERY SAD. Im have a hard time "deprogramming" the kid. I have to repeat it again and again that IT'S NOT NORMAL.

It's like cancer. Very hard to cure.
---
Spidey your paradigm has been disproved time and time again. Have you spoken with your nephew and listened to him tell his story of his sexual orientation? Could you do that without shaming him or denigrating him?

Artificial insemination is NOT natural,that is why it is called ARTIFICIAL.

Some people just don't understand. Most "big believers are usually mentally incapable of making decisions for themselves. They tend to lean much more on religion then the average person. Usually very lonely people, ex cons etc they lean to "the lord" to find there way because they simply can't or don't know how to do it themselves. here is the problem: You have all these simple minded, empty folks listening to a group of religious wackos stating "Follow God you must do Gods work do not eat at McDonalds it's God's way" and guess what they do it! So sad I long for the day when religion is completely wiped out of this country except in a private home and a church. You know what else I find incredibly funny? You get these religious extremist spouting out hatred towards gays saying we are evil but get these guys in a room full of boys and next thing you know there kids in a candy store. You people need to look at statistics and do some research The facts are, most sexual crimes on children come from men who have a wife, kids go to church and straight. This “protect our children” nonsense is getting old.

"Gay development" happen at a very young age. I think my nephew was 3-4 when that shift occured.

The absence of a father at a very young age also contribute to "gay development".

Boycott Spidey. He is a "Who would Jesus bomb?" false Christian. He has obviously never read the Gospels.

SPIDERMEAN2 :
"Gay development" happen at a very young age. I think my nephew was 3-4 when that shift occured.

The absence of a father at a very young age also contribute to "gay development".
---
Spidey I am a psychologist and have taught extensively on the topic of human sexuality at the college level.

Sexual orientation, from the research, can be hard wired or it can be an environmental adaptation. No two people are exactly the same.

Child sexual abuse, a terrible thing, is rarely formative in terms of orientation except for turning people AWAY from the gender of the abuser. That would be an example of an environmental factor affecting sexual orientation.

The "absence of a father" theory comes out of misinterpreted Freudian theory. If you go and read Freud's actual work on sexuality he said that humans are essentially bisexual, and that most people tend to go more in one direction or another for unspecified reasons.

Spidey, consider this...what if you're just wrong on all counts here? What if you are ignorant and following people who have told you things which are in fact untrue? Consider that.

What if you questioned the authorities to who you have, thus far, consigned your mind?

I sure do boycott. I boycott organized religion and Christianity in particular. I boycott bigoted, backwards views that have little to no foundation in the very faith they claim to profess. No one cares for the meaning of the Bible in context to the time it was written. Only the context they can use it in their hate filled rants.

These men and women who call themselves Christian will arrive before the Almighty and if their theories on HELL are correct GOD will cast them into a lake of fire for eternity. They persecute the least among them. they drive human beings into a sub human class. They preach hate under a banner of love and acceptance. All they have, ALL THEY HAVE is 18 words in the book of Leviticus. That's it. 18 words in a JEWISH text.

The man they claim to follow never spoke out against homosexuality. Never called for a division of people. he called for love and universal acceptance.

WHO ARE THEY O PASS JUDGMENT ON ANYONE? Do not judge lest ye be judged. These people sicken me. if I still ate at McDonalds I'd stop immediately. Bigotry my friends. Not Christianity. BIGOTRY.

" spidermean2
"Gay development" happen at a very young age. I think my nephew was 3-4 when that shift occured."

Yes, that's about the age when people who are born gay start to get a vague idea they aren't 'on program.

"The absence of a father at a very young age also contribute to "gay development""

This idea has been roundly-discredited by any peer-reviewd study ever. In fact, all of psychotherapy used to attribute *anything* under neurosis theory to an 'absent father.'

Guess what. Freud's damage.

Everyone in his times thought there wasn't enough masculine guidance in the life of anyone, and basically thought anyone being distressed in any way about anything must have some 'weak father' to blame in the face of the Industrial Revolution.

Frankly, I think the fact that this is *really* all based in issues of male insecurity in an urbanized society is compellingly borne out by the fact that the girls are really supposed to just inherit the secondhand repercussions of the father issues of sexuality-dysfunctional males using the Bible to turn their discomfort with intimacy into some Biblical crusade.

Gay people of both sexes come from all forms of families.

The notion this isn't so comes from a sample in the 60's and seventies of mental health patients who were messed-up enough to be institutionalized.

No basis in the reality we, as Americans seek to govern responsibly as a community of free and equal people.

It's ironic that EASMYTHE and others who promote their interpretation of the bible against homosexuality usually use the King James version.
According to most historical accounts King James was openly homosexual - so perhaps they should thank the homosexual community for the version of the book around which they focus their entire lives and hate.

Or, in short, if you wanna say you have the right to treat me unfairly in American law based on the Bible, Spidey...

Find where it says in this Bible you claim I 'censor' where it *ever* mentions a lesbian. Ever.

But you don't mind 'interpreting' that, do you?

SPIDERMEAN2 :
I raised a nephew whom I believe was straight until somebody who I think has gay tendency got near that boy.

The boy ACQUIRED the "disease". I think that is sad. What was normal before became ABNORMAL.

You fathers there should guard your children and don't just leave them to people who has this "tendency".

VERY SAD, VERY SAD. Im have a hard time "deprogramming" the kid. I have to repeat it again and again that IT'S NOT NORMAL.

It's like cancer. Very hard to cure.

---------------------------------------------------------------

You're an idiot. An idiot and a coward. You are the worse of what humanity has to offer. You are the cancer in this country that needs to be removed. Your utter lack of understanding of science is astounding. Your callousness is shameful. I don't care what you think or what you believe, I do care that your ignorant backwards view of the world dares to claim some sort of equality with natural sciences. I care that every thing you think you know was taken from an unsubstantiated book written in a time when people still thought sneezing was evil spirits escaping the body.

I thank GOD everyday that diseased zealots like you lost their grip on the western world long ago. When you took over we experienced a little thing people like to call THE DARK AGES. When you lost your control we were treated to THE RENAISSANCE. You will never have that power back and it kills you. You hate and blame and mock and make outlandish charges you know you can never prove. You defend it with stubborn hate and insipid language that only sounds logical to the people who share your disease. You disgust me and regardless of what you may think, how certain you may think you are, if you are right about HELL then I promise you that you will burn there for all eternity for carrying out your hate in the name of GOD, you worthless piece of gutter humanity.

To knivesanddemons: I think you're selling Jesus a little bit short. This is the guy who said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," repudiating a group of citizens who thought it was their right to stone an adulterous woman. And the man who picked Mary Magdalene up off the street and accepted her into his group of disciples. I have a hard time understanding how anyone could believe in the divinity of this man while completely disregarding his message of love, tolerance and social responsibility.

If you read your Bible, it ain't Jesus who is saying all of those bad things about gays and adulterers -- it's the trail of despicable characters who followed him, starting with Paul, who distorted this message of peaceful tolerance into one of hatred. Sadly this tradition of hate is alive and well in America today...

Gay people boycotting McDonalds won't do anything because I don't think any gay people eat at McDonalds. They have much better taste.

The AFA's actions and those by like organizations who promote hate in the name of God is a good example of why mainstream religions are losing membership. They believe in hate and intolerance and use God as their cover. To all of you who want to claim this is not so, I commend you to do a quick review of history and the arguments used for slavery, discrimination against all non-white minorities, women, and the laws banning interracial marriages in this county until very recently. Just keep to give a sense of perspective--I was born in 1961, and at that time it was still illegal for interracial couples to marry. And the argument was founded in part on God's will.

So, the next time you right wing hate-mongering Christians argue for treating homosexuals as second class citizens and denying them basic human rights under the law of the state, just remember, you are basically asking the government to do the same thing you were having it to do until about 40 years ago--legalize discrimination and deny individuals basic civil rights in the name of God. As Sarah Palin might say: Gooooo God!!

"SPIDERMEAN2 :
I raised a nephew whom I believe was straight until somebody who I think has gay tendency got near that boy."

Not hard to explain. He's afraid of getting pegged with the 'blame' his own ideology wants to pawn off on 'bad parenting' in order to keep claiming merely being queer is a 'sinful choice.'

Some say I'm 'anti-Catholic' on stuff like this.

Really, you can beat the crap out of me, and I refuse to see less than a human. Or else there's nothing to fight for.

But. The likes of you, Spidey, and the recent Popes....

You scared my Mom. Forget about what happened to *me.* But they tried to peg some 'blame' on my family for me not being born to meet their dogmatic demands.

That's gonna remain till someone fixes it, make no mistake.

No one said *you* had to be a slave to it, though, Spidey, either way.

Or is your God not quite that big?

The way you talk, he'll burn cities full of people alive, but, someone turning out queer on your watch? Why, if you don't find someone to *blame* for a simple fact, well, *you* might be the one to burn, eh?

Doesn't have to go down like that.

Promise.

I am not a Christian, nor am I gay. But I do find this topic interesting. It seems that "sin" is to the Christian what smorgasbord is the eater. Pick and choose your favorites. Christians love to wave the "sin" flag over homosexuality, but you rarely see them raise much dust over the other things that their god calls a sin. Have you ever seen a Christian protesting at Red Lobster? Why not? According to their bible eating shrimp, crab, lobster, clams, etc, is a sin. Their god says that sitting in a chair that woman who was on her monthly cycle had previously sat in makes them unclean. Yet do you ever see a Christian overly concerned about who sat in a particular chair prior to their using it? The bible is full of things that the Christian's god considers sin. But where is the anger and protest at the others? Where is the anger at Bush for lying? Where was the anger at Newt Gingrich for divorce? Where was the anger and protest when Jimmy Swaggart got caught lusting and doing who knows what else?
I prefer to live my life by a different code. I mind my own business. I treat people the way I want to be treated. I try to get along with people. And you know what? It works.
I said that I am not a Christian. I was once. For many years. I am an atheist now. I live a decent life not because I fear the retribution of some god, but because I am an intelligent human being who lives in society and recognizes that things such as decency, courtesy, and treating people with kindness makes ALL of our lives better. What two consenting adults to in their bed room, regardless of their gender, has no effect what-so-ever on me or you. Therefore I treat gays the same way I want to be treated: with respect. I know many gays, and have found them to be decent people. I've also known many Christians who were not decent people. I judge the individual individually. And their sexual preference is not something I consider.
Christians and other religious fundi-whackos sticking they're nose where it does belong does, however, affect me. It affects all of us. If something needs protesting it's that. Mind your own business people! If you think something is a sin then don't do it. Leave everyone else alone.

Momosexuality is a WOUND inflicted on the child at a very young age. It is NOT normal and it has to be CURED.

The lack of an EMOTIONAL MALE BONDING given to a child contribute to gay/lesbian behavior. There are also other factors like exposure to perversion.

Homosexuality is a WOUND inflicted on the child at a very young age. It is NOT normal and it has to be CURED.

The lack of an EMOTIONAL MALE BONDING given to a child contribute to gay/lesbian behavior. There are also other factors like exposure to perversion.

roewert wrote "I am not a Christian"

So what made you think you understand true Christianity? Apostle Paul said and Jesus said that you can eat ANYTHING. The old testament is full of metaphors and many people including those who call themselves Christians don't understand it.

spidey- "The lack of an EMOTIONAL MALE BONDING given to a child contribute to gay/lesbian behavior. There are also other factors like exposure to perversion."

Well, NOW I understand. Of course your poor nephew is gay- he was exposed to you. I can't imagine how you would bond and the real perversion here is you.

The New Testament, especially the Gospels, but not revelation, is filled with beautiful teachings about compassion, humility, and love. A pity that many Christians, like Spidey, do not understand this, the core message of Jesus.

"They preach hate under a banner of love and acceptance. All they have, ALL THEY HAVE is 18 words in the book of Leviticus. That's it. 18 words in a JEWISH text."

I guess they kinda' have the human body too...it's pretty obvious if God created humanity, who he/she wanted to get together. The notion that this practice has God's blessing is just foolish. Doesn't make much sense from the evolutionary side either for that matter.

Marriage is about raising kids in a stable home, which clearly benefits children. It was never meant to be a right for every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

In the case of my nephew, it was EXPOSURE TO PERVERSION. A pervert inflicted the wound. He is in the process of healing. I can't promise that he would be cured totally coz perversion is all around us. A lot of people are jsut plain sick and they think it is normal.

Imagine, LEGALIZING PERVERSION and many people approve of it.

"spidermean2

"Homosexuality is a WOUND inflicted on the child at a very young age."

It's not, Spidey. What's a wound is some church causing mothers to reject their children because they don't match up with how dogma *says* they should be, and threatens all with unutterable punishments should all not be made to conform.

Wounds?

I'll tell you about wounds.

If you cover em up and let em fester, you might well get kind of fevered.

Did your God 'design' us for this suffering, or... did some people with a book just find use for how people try to deal with it?

You gloat over the idea of cities and populations burning and suffering horribly, Spidey... but simple human affection between people of the same sex seems beyond your imagination.

Few things short of a frustrated male sex drive get *that* messed up.

If your God knows all, son, perhaps he knows another way?

Maybe something a little less miserable and violent?

Just for a start. You never know.

If you have faith in your savior, there, there's no one you can hurt that will do any good.

Have you tried *asking?*

Or is your idea of someone like me somehow in the way?

I mean, I *could* be an 'idiot,' but I do know about where 'dead leaves' come from. Some experience with compost and all..

Most gays don't remember the wound as they grow up coz it happened when they were still very young. They were like clays molded that way and it started at their very young age.

Paganplace, you won't remember it , Im sure. Somebody neglected or abused you in some form or another.

Some people are born gay. That's a fact.

I saw a little boy who you knew something was wrong with him when he was 2.

It happens.

That kind of throws a monkey wrench in the whole god thing you are using to judge these people with.

Marriage is a religious act and I don't believe they should be married. But most straight people who get married shouldn't be allowed to get married.

If marriage is such a religulous act to you how are some of these marriages ordained.

The divorce rate is over 50%. You would think the church would be more concerned with that if it's such a religulos act.

I also know a whole lot about how people hurt kids, you know, Spidey. Too much. Things I hope I won't need to know anymore, in some future life.

The horrible thing about what I witnessed when I was young is that it's not so simple as being about a sexual orientation, even if not especially when it's done by Christian clergy:

They induce 'spiritual crisis' in people of 'unacceptable' sexuality, say the only place they can be valued as human beings is as celibate clergy preaching the 'virtue' of sexual denial in the face of 'temptation.'

By the time a young human gets involved, it's not even about another human. It's about 'temptation' and how they rationalize that.

It's a cycle of abuse that goes on and on generation after generation, and certain victims are blamed, while others are expected to pretend all's in order.

It's. Not. OK, Spidey.

There is no one that anyone can hurt or burn that will help this.

What it means is that we all grow up and be adults.

Queer, straight, bi, whatever.

We do right, and don't pretend that there's a scapegoat to expiate or a personal drama that makes it OK for a dysfunctional Christian functionary to 'only sin some of the time' while communities don't or fear to look, when it's so much easier to praise might and call those damaged 'wrong,' ...enlisting parents to try and beat straightness into queer kids to escape the blame dogma places on them for *simple biological and developmental factors.*

If you *really* don't like queer people, child, I have two words for you. 'Endocrine Disruptors.'

Won't change the morals of it, but if you really don't like us... you could make less of us.

Won't make you right, but at least it'd make you useful.

Somehow my 'empty hedonistic religion' finds that of value in this world. But, as you will.

You speak of 'intelligent design...' I say, if we *were* designed for anything, it's probably not to choke the world with babies, flood eighty percent of the agricultural land, burn queers and people who share, croak the ecosystem, and then act all surprised when some undetected comet puts paid to 'trickle down economics' without even a bold line from Brice Willis...

There are things we can do, there are things we can be.

None of them will get done if you think who I ...or you, snuggle with is the biggest problem facing the entire universe, Spidey.

There's nothing essentially a 'wound' about being queer, Spidey.

Someone has to actually wound you over it.

I'm very sorry this seems to have wounded you, but.....

Believe it or not there's more to faith than praying for a God to hurt someone.

I promise.

Poor Spidey. He is apparently not gay. But I wonder if there was some sort of trauma or mental abuse in his youth that made him so filled with hate. His obsession with millions of people being burned to death is sickening.

langs13 wrote "Some people are born gay."

This is false. They acquired it at their very tender age. The emotions of a little child are like MOLDABLE CLAYS.

"Don't go that way. There's a broken bridge ahead over a fiery lake"

That is the message of God and that is my message. It's not called hate. It's called ADVANCE WARNING like "DO NOT ENTER : DANGER AHEAD "

God won't send gays to hell. It's the act that will send them there. I know saome gays who don't practice homosexuality.

" spidermean2

"Most gays don't remember the wound as they grow up coz it happened when they were still very young. "

So, therefore, you know better?

"They were like clays molded that way and it started at their very young age."

This is *your* God's metaphor for what people are made of. I keep saying we aren't *artifice,* don't I?

Not pottery, here.

"Paganplace, you won't remember it , Im sure. Somebody neglected or abused you in some form or another."

Heh. Actually, I remember more than most. I was kinda freaky that way. Sometimes you hear about people born rememberng previous lives.... I was convinced, the way people talked, that there'd been some kind of terrible mistake. Not only do I remember, but I was pretty aware of stuff that was going on at the time.

I was not a happy camper.

I would prefer not to repeat the experience.

(I find it unfathomable that Christians think it's somehow a *good* thing to live forever with the contents of their brain in the first place, that way, never min invent a way to blame gays for any sense of threat to the idea)

Therefore. Can we get some things across, here?

a) You're wrong.

b) You could do something better with this.

Do *you* remember? Or are you just looking for an authority that'll tell you who to blame?

Do you want to see people burn, as you've so gloried in claiming before?

You don't want to be that guy, son. You just don't.

If this world was 'intelligently designed' as you go to such irrational lengths to claim, ....then you should look for where you, and I, for that matter, *fit* in that design, rather than try to force things not to exist in the 'name' of your idea of that design.

A little remembrance will teach you that what people fear as forgetfulness just isn't as scary as it's cracked up to be.

It's.... Well, it's us. You think redefining something as 'smart' will make good things happen, well, try to limit that experiment to your own time.

If you *really* want to just be with people in the manner we can do here, get off that computer, shut up half a minute, and *meet people.*

This is cooler than any war you could think of.

If you can't see that, stop pretending you can hurt queers and 'make' it OK.

It's already OK.

But there's work to do. And this does not presently involve blindly having more babies.

You game?

Get a clue, people!

So many things in the bible have already been proven to be wrong with advancing science.

What makes you so certain the rest is correct?

The bible was written by humans. Humans make mistakes. We cannot prove any of it is true.

I love how people will discredit fact in a heartbeat and then expect everyone to believe that some book that was scribbled on walls in pictures is somehow 100% true.

Get a brain.

Sometimes boycotts work. Sometimes they don't. Couldn't hurt to boycott McDonald's.

As for the superior taste of gay people, of course this is fact, but sad to say, here and there, every now and then, a gay person, contra one blogger, patronizes Ronald M.

They go incognito, of course. :)

spidey2-

Hate is what damages children. Your whole life is about hate and punishment and looking for perversion under every rock. You aren't trying to cure your nephew- you're abusing him. You're destroying who he is and who he chooses to be. the only thing you really want is to stand up and crow that you have cured perversion.

I don't expect you to understand anything about love and compassion and ethics. You can't understand these things because in your world they don't exist.

"What makes you so certain the rest is correct?"

I'm just gonna keep harping on the notion that the 'Biblical literalists' are willing to hurt lesbians, even though there's no such mention in the Bible...

I kinda figure this indicates further flawed reasoning somewhere, but, still, why am I 'censoring the Bible' to point out my own ill-treatment *really isn't in there?*

Is this somehow not bigotry?

"You aren't trying to cure your nephew- you're abusing him."

I'll also point out that in fact, Spidey's nephew may not even need 'curing,' even by his standards. Homophobic abuse isn't just something LBGT people observe: it hurts *everyone.* Even straight people. Most victims of physical gaybashing aren't even gay, they just did or looked or otherwise seemed insufficiently straight for someone to cut loose on.

Trying to secure your future, well, that's different, that's pretty cold and deniable.

Hi all -

Pastor Ted Haggard wants me to pass along a message that although he had been smoking meth and engaging in gay sex with a male prostitute, it was done strictly as a morality lesson to his congregation about the dangers of smoking meth and engaging in gay sex with a male prostitute.

Well, OBX, he probably has a similar problem to that which Spidey thinks justifying hurting innocent people over. He wants to take it personal in that way, let's profile him.

Or, Spidey? You could be a human like the rest of us? I wouldn't give you back the hard time you seek to give others if you'd stop making a religion of abusing everyone your Bible seems to entitle you to abuse, which let me tell you, is absolutely everyone, including yourself. I assure you, I've done a fair bit of parenting, and assisting in such, and I don't think I've raised a queer kid yet.

So maybe it's something else.

Sorry paganplace- i was a little unclear. I don't think homosexuality is anything that needs to be cured. I'm just trying to put it in spidey's terms because it's all he understands. But the only thing that needs curing here is his hate. I feel sorry for his nephew- lord knows how screwed up he must be if everyone in his family is like his uncle. I hope he gets away from them and finds people who will love and support him for who he is.

Boycots are a poor way to make a point. Better to talk.

Meanwhile, starting next year Hewlett Packard will no longer provide health care benefits to opposite-sex domestic partners, yet will continue to offer them to same-sex domestic partners. I wonder what conservative Christians will make of that?

Boycotts are a great tool. No physical harm done. You vote with your dollars. We vote with our dollars daily.

"Just talk" - that's such an idealistic, yet juvenile statement. I guess you think we should have just told Sadam Hussein or the Janjaweed in Sudan, "Please stop hurting people. That's not nice."

Here is what I think! We should boycot faith based groups. They have embedded themselves in our political system.
Thank goodness we have a constitution that gives us our cherished freedom, to worship, to have free speech and to be granted equal rights.
These religious organizations obviously need something to do. They must have alot of free time on their hands.
These people forget they are infringing on other people's rights.
They may consider themselves to be without sin but as far as I am concerned they have the sin of vanity they think God looks only upon them.
As if, they were created perfect in God's image.
I think more crimes and horrors in our history, were created by religious people's with extreme views.
It is time they tended there own and leave others to have God judge on judgment day.
We fellow humans are not here to judge.

IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING HOLY: FEED THE HUNGRY, SAVE THE HOMELESS, DO SOMETHING KIND AND CONSTRUCTIVE... THERE IS MUCH TO BE DONE.
FINALLY, SAVE OUR PLANET: THAT SHOULD GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO DO THAT GOD MIGHT REALLY APPRECIATE.

No worries, Sparrow. This stuff ain't about me and it never was, (even if it's personally *affected* me in horrendous ways) ... it's just that when all else fails, the GOP needs to bring up sexual insecurity.

Why are we fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan but giving them tax breaks here in the states to undermine people's freedom?

Why can't Republicans support the troops and denounce these English-speaking Taliban groups here on our own turf?

Homos are defective and have no place in society. Go live in the wild places where you belong.

So accoriding to Phil5 "Homos are defective and have no place in society"

Well... last time I checked none of my friends were defective. I have a handful of gay friends...

So my note to you Phil5 is god forbid something happen to you and someone does something to save your life... what are you going to do if you find out that person was a homo?

personally... I'd probably just keep walking by.

Charming, Phil. Fine example of why we should submit to Christian authority wherever it desires.

Tell you what, though, ..show half an erg of respect for wild places, in whatever passes for brain activity there, and just maybe there'll be one less reason to figure we're in some kind of evil parallel universe. :)

I am not surprised at what McDonald's did. In this economic climate corporations will do anything to hold onto their revenue stream. This is pure business and religious or moral issues mean nothing. Boycotts work because corporations exists to enhance their bottom line.

As for McDonald's, that food will kill me in large amounts so I eat there very rarely. Boycotting would not be a problem.

Mind you, I could not be more eloquent than Phil5 in his demonstration how the 'gay agenda' is *actually oppressing Christians on the basis that real oppression intends to drive people out of...

Ooops. I got that backwards.

How am I supposed to prove that my own oppression is entirely in my own mind despite what miltinational corporations do to me when someone keeps coming along, calling me a 'homo' and saying I should be driven out to wild places, if any aren't being factory farmed right now?

*waving arms around* I can't work under these conditions!

Oh. Wrong sex-stereotype. Let's see, here.

*rolling up sleeve.*

Don't make me embarrass you, fanboy.

Phil5 opines and recommends,

"Homos are defective and have no place in society. Go live in the wild places where you belong."

Phil: As a blatant heterosexual, I hereby excommunicate you from your sexual or asexual or antisexual or amoebic "(non)community."

Any and all conceivable offense, intended.

Paganplace :
Charming, Phil. Fine example of why we should submit to Christian authority wherever it desires.

No, much better to submit to gay men everywhere...eh Paganplace. Those gay pride parades are a family values delight.

I hate to tell you this, FH, as someone mocked for being a mere lezzie homemaker, but having known quite a number of gay men and seen and participated in several Pride parades, you would actually have to do something to make yourself attractive enough to justify a *tenth* of the kind of worries that women of any orientation deal with constantly.

Don't be so vain, that you think all gay men are after your tushie.

I'm in a committed same sex relationship these past seven years or so, but who knows, maybe I'd be with a man right now if someone grew a social skill, put on a clean shirt and stopped acting *entitled*.

Maybe you could pray on that.

As a devout heterosexual, I love wild places and gay folks and don't eat at McDonald's. I guess I'm all set for the party....

Eh, I dunno, Mark. I think straight guys are way too wound up in what straight guys tell each other constitutes being fit to not get the crap kicked out of them for approaching females, even if the 'alphas' have no idea what else to do, themselves.

There are certainly a number of eedjits out there who really think it impresses a girl how horrible a thing they are willing to do to gay men.

Of course, if they don't get laid, it's not about them being morons trying to hit up some random same-sex couple one of whom politely indulges their psychotic talk of bravado, saying, when they go, 'Girls who don't put out are against family cause they're lezies, and I'm not gay, I hate gay men,' and you politely say, 'This is a nice place, and I'm armed, ' .....

Helpful hint: Girls, straight, gay, nor bi, do not find barely-contained irrational violence sexy. Ever. Unless maybe it's so irrational there's no point talking about it here, never trying to claim Jesus commands whatever you have in mind.

People mock my desire for a stable home, legal rights, and not relying on the regulars at any place I care to have a pint for protection the law won't give.... just to meet the neighbors.

Frankly, the partnership I want rights for, is far less about sex than frustrated Christian ideologues think. Males supposedly think of sex about every fifteen seconds, and conseervative Christians spank themselves over 'sexual thoughts.'

My life, well... 'sex' comes up every week or so, less if I'm hurting too much from not having had health care earlier in life, but, ...very nice, not a big deal, ...completely *having not a Mother-loving-thing-to-do-with-Christian dramas.....

It's one thing I always wanted to ask about all this tempestuous Christian conflict about sex...

Are you just that spooled up about it that you are afraid to face the reality it's not that big a deal, if you are aware and considerate?

Is that what you're afraid of?

If it isn't some 'devilish' thing, would you have to look at what you *actually* do?

Especially cause I suspect some here aren't getting laid?

Yaknow. What is it about all this that you *really think* it's worth hurting me or some gay guys over?

Really.

What's worth this?

Is it something about queers?

Or is it you?

Don't be so vain, that you think all gay men are after your tushie.

Lord knows my tushie should certainly create some intense desire to mate...oh yea...that's not what sex is about...you know...procreation.

Actually, I don't find myself thinking about gay men much, with the exception of when they try and tell me where my tax dollars should go. I have this old-fashioned notion that cultures should reward behavior that enhances the nation...you know, like creating stable platforms for the next generation. The generation that hetorosexual couples give us.

My cousin is a conservative clergyman who believed homosexuality was a "deviancy". He was happy to gay bash, even worked to get a local teacher dismissed for being gay. He would deny open gays Communion.

Then his youngest son (the family "golden child", bright, kind, achiever, thoughtful, and training to be a music teacher) came out of the closet. When he saw how afraid his son was to tell him, he wept for shame that his son believed his father could reject him. He has not been able to deny his son Communion. He is coming to terms with his son's statement that "this is just how God made me".

Whey don't all these anti-gay activists stop trying to suppress their own latent homosexual tendencies and go read to a lonely old person in a nursing home or do something else useful that doesn't violate "judge not lest ye be judged".

Waters say:"Even if the boycotts I join don't work, I think there are times when my faith -- meaning my understanding of what is right and just -- compels me to try. I'm not looking to awaken shame. I am trying to avoid it."

How can you avoid shame when you're boycotting a company that supports equal rights? My faith and my understanding of right and wrong demand that I believe in equality and I believe in the rights of others to be happy if they are not hurting anyone. And i don't see where a loving homosexual or lesbian relationship hurts anyone. It's none of your business, Mr. Waters, what anyone does in their bedroom. why do you even care? and more importantly- do you want people telling you who you can marry, how many children you can have, who you can make your life with?

If you want to avoid shame, maybe you shouldn't do anything to awaken it- and that means trying to make life harder for people you don't know and who haven't done anything except demand the same constitutional rights you have.

The Bible said that DOOMSDAY is coming. It's accurate coz we've seen the nukes facing each other's country already.

The Bible also stands against gay marriage.

Believe of preish. It's that simple.

The Bible said that DOOMSDAY is coming. It's accurate coz we've seen the nukes facing each other's country already.

The Bible also stands against gay marriage.

Believe of perish. It's that simple.

Many gay men are almost unbearably attractive. First, they know where to get a decent haircut. Don't ask me why, but this is a well-known fact, widely attested to in well-respected empirical studies carried out in Sweden and Texas. Second, many know how to dress. Third even in middle age, they do not look pregnant.

The thing is, once you (a woman) start talking to one, you notice that there is no "vibe," as it were, neither positive nor negative. That's it. The man is gay. You lose.

Not that it matters any longer in my case since I am married (to a heterosexual, with an adequate fashon sense, given his sexual orientation--although his haircuts could be better--no belly, thank God)

Gay women: Two gay women have found me attractive and I them, but I was already married. Also, Curious, but yellow. My other gay female friend, with whom I'm closer never thought me much to look at.

My husband's closest friend is gay and doesn't seem to find my husband in the least bit appealing, which I find insulting, but so far, I've said nothing.

Who do I boycott? Altria, Iams, L,Oreal and especially Nestle. Also any foods or cosmetics from China.
Personally I prefer the "who to support" approach of the Christian Ecology League
LOAF - Local Organic Animal friendly Fairly Traded

" spidermean2

"The Bible said that DOOMSDAY is coming. It's accurate coz we've seen the nukes facing each other's country already."

Grew up in a secondary target. Nukes don't scare me, even with Reagan showing his Alzheimer's.

This has to do with whether or not I should pretend I don't have authentic love with my partner *why* again?

Yeah, there were people like you getting off on saying, 'You're all gonna burn,' then, too.

I'm still here.

Where will *you* be in twenty, twenty five years?

"The Bible also stands against gay marriage."

Do quote, Bible literalist.

"Believe of perish. It's that simple."

I'm an American, Spidey, and Irish, and Pagan besides.

Don't respond so well to threats.

I don't see no Ultimate God threatening me.

All I see is the likes of you.

And I'm not shaking.

You get behind *me* if you're so scared.

Gods.

Pathetic.

I mean, Spidey, it seems you're young enough to want to *become* that apocalyptic monster, but I *used to live and breathe* in a world where people who said 'nucular' had the launch codes.

It's not *good,* but it doesn't scare me.

Cold reality of it is, if this burning you fetishize has anything to do with it, it's just embarrassing.

So.

Don't try and tell me about sex, kid. Never mind 'God.'

Pagan, if you live before the nuclear age, your disbelief is understandable. Do you know the percentage or probability that the prophecy might be right. Before, it's almost nil, but today even scientist put the Doomsday clock to almost 98%.

Use your brain if you cannot use your heart.

99.6 PERCENT PROBABLE.

Pagan, if you live before the nuclear age, your disbelief is understandable. Do you know the percentage or probability that the prophecy might be right. Before, it's almost nil, but today even scientist put the Doomsday clock to 5 minutes before midnight. It means 99.6 PERCENT PROBABLE.

That's how accurate the Bible is. As the time nears, it gets higher.

Hey, I'm happy about the McDonald's turnaround. Since my family discovered McDonald's original pro-homo stance, we've withheld our financial support to the ol' Big Mac (and I'm glad we have the right to do so vs. some countries where you don't have a choice). But now, with them returning to alignment with more traditional Christian family values, we'll start again our faithful spending on a weekly/daily basis. Woo-hoo! I'm lovin' it!

So, anti-gay people have been eating at McDonald's previous to this boycott? Wowzers. Has anyone thought about the not so subtle signs sent by some of the McDonald-land characters? The bird girl who wears the aviator hat? The hamburglar? What exactly is the big purple guy grimacing about?

The real story is that the anti-gays have been buying into this gang's suspect ways for decades.

" spidermean2 "

"Pagan, if you live before the nuclear age, your disbelief is understandable"

Err,, did something about having grown up in an early target for ICBMs and being a punk rocker lead you to believe I was born in 1930 this time around, 'before the nuclear age?'

"Do you know the percentage or probability that the prophecy might be right."

No. I don't even know what 'prophecy' you're talking about, though I've been hearing vague references all my life. There is no percentage or probability. If it is 10,000 to one, we take the one, and faugh a ballagh if you don't like it.

" Before, it's almost nil, but today even scientist put the Doomsday clock to almost 98%."

The 'doomsday clock' is not a percentage. Never was. But maybe that was before your time.

I've seen us pull back from the brink once in my life, though, and do to me rude things if I'll let the likes of you screw it up over your sex issues now.

Seriously.

"Use your brain if you cannot use your heart."

I'd give real money to see what came out of you from either, but I have none. Since your barin is obviously working overtime trying to process bad input, how bout *your* heart?

Is there something you can feel in there, child? Something that isn't so much concerned with being 'right' or knowing or controlling what's 'supposed' to happen, but that can *feel* something, ...say when I mention how much hurt and pain the ideas you so strut around claiming make sense play out in real people's lives?

How about *your* heart, kiddo?

Do you know love, or are you only desperate for the world to end by Russian nukes that probably can't make boost phase cause the former USSR ain't been paying anyone to maintain the things since like 1998?

You come here, Spidey, and glory in the notion of someone else burning... Instead of who?

You?

For what?

Seriously, kid, you could be as queer as a seventeen drachma Visa balance, and I'm not so sure you'd have to worry about 'sinning.'

If you get over the notion that queers or women or anyone are as depraved as the porn you think is both a big deal and somehow relevant to life, instead of 'sin' well,

That involves scary old people.

People you have to interact with, rather than imagine nuking.

I know you're scared. Only thing is, 'God' won't end the world for you.

No matter who you blame.

Sorry.

You can hurt people, you can hurt yourself, you can pretend that the *whole fricking mess is all about you and your 'temptations' to whatever the Hel you're thinking....

I call you're not-it.

Oops. What now?

Heart?

What. Do. You. Feel. Kid.

Speak it.

And any catholic clergy still wanna call me 'evil,' feel free to take over. If you'll treat the kid like a human. I done this before.

And yes, I talked about you in front of you, Spidey.

Cause you do this to all my people.

Mind ain't working out so well for you.

Show me *heart.* You got one. Right?

Oh yeah, one question to all of the bible-interested folks out there: when is the old testament adhered to and does it ever conflict with the new?

I've read about the not touching pig's skin and not eating shellfish and not cutting the hair around the temples and I wonder how these sins get prioritized with the whole man shall not lie with man bit. (I think everyone tolerates a little woman and woman, am I right?)

"99.6 PERCENT PROBABLE.

Probable what, when, how and to what effect?

"Pagan, if you live before the nuclear age, your disbelief is understandable."

Seems I'm on my second life in the nuclear age, actually... Disbelief of what?

"Do you know the percentage or probability that the prophecy might be right."

No, cause I have no idea what prophecy you're even referring to. Perhaps Palin knows? You do realize that according to certain Christians with an unhealthy attraction to nukes, the world's *always* about to end for no apparent reason, especially since we passed a tidy calendar date?

" Before, it's almost nil, but today even scientist put the Doomsday clock to 5 minutes before midnight. It means 99.6 PERCENT PROBABLE. "

What's probable?

That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

This is a readon to hurt people?

Point four percent is what I always used to call a pretty comfy margin for tomorrow.

We can screw this up any ol' time we please.

If you're not interested in doing otherwise, don't waste our time.

I mean, seriously, Spidey. We used to eat your 'apocalpse' fro breakfast.... Every day. Get up. Go to schoool or work, and get on with life.

Such as allowed.

Give us a break.

How bout your *heart?* You wake up vaporized, what do you *feel?* Your sirit supposed to get by OK without your mouth? Who I snuggle with really all that big a deal?

Speak it.

What did Jesus do?

What's the point of boycotting if there's going to be counter-boycotting?

Who would Jesus boycott?

I boycott McDonald's only because if I didn't, I'd weigh at least 25 lbs. more.

But, here a giant corporation with an immense amount of employees, tried to do something for all of them, and people who would rather go down economic abyss than burn in hell objected.

Worse, is that they gave in. What's wrong with people? Isn't the best Christian principle giving anyone regardless of their sins forgiveness? Where's that? Because you don't agree with them, you feel a need to destroy them (and I'm not talking about McD's here)? That's not very Christian at all.

Matthew 6:6... But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. --- So why all the publicity seeking? And wasn't it Jesus who was condemned for hanging out with 'unacceptable' folks and sinners? Smacks of hypocrisy to me... And that reminds me of Mark 7:6-7: Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain;their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

Christians Against Hate? Hasn't that become an oxymoron?

It is sad that a country that has pledged to 'spread Democracy around the world' is now more and more in a deadlock with people who couldn't care less about Democracy.

The US troops are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, a group of people who want to enforce their religious views on others. At the same time these American soldiers will return to a country that has it's own Taliban, only with a different name: the Christian ultra-conservatives.

More and more items become the targets of the Christian conservatives:
1. Abortion/ Right to choose
2. Same sex-marriages
3. Euthanasia

From craddle to coffin, they enforce their vision on millions of other Americans. It is time that the conservatives get the place they deserve based on their size: at the side-line not able to decide what is and what isn't the right way.

If you believe that homosexuality is not wrong and have no desire to see your money going to promote anti-homosexual causes, you have not only the right but the obligation to avoid spending your money at establishments that promote the anti-homosexual agenda.

Another example of - This is just "Religulous".

spidermean2 :
"The Bible said that DOOMSDAY is coming. It's accurate coz we've seen the nukes facing each other's country already."

People that read the bible having been saying DOOMSDAY is coming since it's been written.LOL

Another example of - This is just "Religulous".

bucbur :
Hey, I'm happy about the McDonald's turnaround. Since my family discovered McDonald's original pro-homo stance, we've withheld our financial support to the ol' Big Mac (and I'm glad we have the right to do so vs. some countries where you don't have a choice)."

bucbur? What country FORCES their citizens to EAT AT A RESTURANT they don't want too?

As a South African I am proud of what the ANC led government has done in giving me my constitutional rights. As a gay man I can live a life free from persecution by the state and if my sister wish to have an abortion she can do so without the threat of getting attacked by religious nuts.

Americans have been living in a bubble where they were taught that their society was the only just one. The land of the free and the brave, well it is actually the land of the not so free and the not so brave. Thirty-three states still have legislation that enabled bosses to fire their employees for being gay. Your military has a don’t ask don’t tell policy. What a joke. America is arguably one of the most racist and homophobic societies in the world, right alongside countries like Saudi Arabia (Bush can identify) and Zimbabwe. To have religious fundamental nuts exercising such a lot of power over institutions and business is quite frightening. I do hope and pray that Americans know what is expected of them during the forthcoming elections. Voting for Obama is not negotiable as that is what is needed to pull that backwards country out of the dark ages. Voting for McCain would mean more conservatism and a continuation of distorting the truth i.e. “The War on Terror”. I will not feel any compassion for America if they get attacked again under a McCain Presidency.

As a South African I am proud of what the ANC led government has done in giving me my constitutional rights. As a gay man I can live a life free from persecution by the state and if my sister wish to have an abortion she can do so without the threat of getting attacked by religious nuts.

Americans have been living in a bubble where they were taught that their society was the only just one. The land of the free and the brave, well it is actually the land of the not so free and the not so brave. Thirty-three states still have legislation that enabled bosses to fire their employees for being gay. Your military has a don’t ask don’t tell policy. What a joke. America is arguably one of the most racist and homophobic societies in the world, right alongside countries like Saudi Arabia (Bush can identify) and Zimbabwe. To have religious fundamental nuts exercising such a lot of power over institutions and business is quite frightening. I do hope and pray that Americans know what is expected of them during the forthcoming elections. Voting for Obama is not negotiable as that is what is needed to pull that backwards country out of the dark ages. Voting for McCain would mean more conservatism and a continuation of distorting the truth i.e. “The War on Terror”. I will not feel any compassion for America if they get attacked again under a McCain Presidency.

People talk about posting the 10 commandments?
Why not post all the sins the Bible says exist. It's around 665 sins.
This might solve some of the problems facing the USA today. People talk about being gay is a sin? How about the other 664 sins?

May God bless these intolerant homophobes with the opportunity to take a gay child or grandchild out for a Happy Meal.

Notice Dick Cheney, the bastion of "Christian" Republican intolerance, doesn't say much about the issue.

As for those of you like Reverend Haggard and Senator Craig who spew your anti-gay hatred in guilty frustration with your religion's contempt for your own hidden homosexuality, may God give you the courage to accept it instead of lashing out at others.

I boycotted the Olympics this year - never saw a single one of Michael Phelps' races - over the issue of genocide in Darfur. This is not in the same league. If there were a McDonalds in Iran that allowed gays to be stoned to death on the premises, then I would boycott.

"Full citizenship" does not entail teaching perversion to children. It's just that simple.

Please. Do people still believe homosexuals are out there to recruit your children? The old toaster oven joke. Homosexuality is not a choice. I know that is hard for christians to believe. This is just the way it is. The only choice is whether to try to live your unhappy life as a lie, or be with a person you truly love. How interesting that christians would "choose" to smother love. Yes, that indeed is a choice.

So, Jesus, who never 'experienced' a woman, hung w/ a group of men constantly and literally told everyone to 'eat me', is not gay?

Yep, it IS promotion. People pushing for everyone to embrace their gay, lesbian, bisexual, transexual brothers, sisters, and everything in between. National Gay & Lesbian Chamber of Commerce states that they exist to, "Promotes growth and prosperity of gay- and lesbian-owned and gay-friendly businesses." The American Family Association is rabidly anti-gay.

My father in law is gay, my cousin is gay, my wife's cousin is lesbian. I don't treat them any differently than anyone else in the family (well, except my father-in-law, he's also a pediphile, but no one is perfect, right?)

You can not promote something without demoting everything else in the population. McDonalds recognized this and severed their relationship with the National Gay & Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, at the urging of the AFA. What is important is they did not climb into bed with the AFA afterwards.

A small percentage of the population is always going to be of non-standard gender or sexuality. That's normal. It is NOT the norm. It should not predominate the behavior of the rest of the population. Pushing for people to celebrate your choice(s) is promotion. Be happy when you aren't discriminated against for employment, housing, and services; that's true equality for the minority.

Personally, I will boycott MacDonalds from now on simply because they've caved into the bigotted religious views of the Christian American Family Association, which are neither Christian nor representative of the American values of non-discrimination of people on the basis of race, creed, gender, national origin, or sexual orieintation.

These people are extremists, akin to the theocratic dictatorship that rules Iran, Saudi Arabia and many other 3rd world nations. Do we seek to place our nation, which for 232 years has been a beacon of freedom in a world of oppressive regimes, along-side the same oppressive regimes?

If that is the vision of America and the values they support, and if MacDonalds bends to their pressure, their values are un-American, un-patriotic, and I will never do business with a firm that is complicit in and kow-tows to these fascist moral midgets.

spidermean2 :
If they want to legalize homosexuality, which is a form of sickness, they might as well legalize drug addiction and pornography.
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Addiction is not a crime. Many people are addicted to perfectly legal drugs - caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, prescriptions. The only illegal aspect of addiction regards the purchse, sale, or possession of certain specific drugs.
And you can go into any convenience store in town and legally buy porn as long as you can prove you're at least 18 years old.

Have you found same sex dogs or cows sleeping together? It's simply NOT NORMAL.
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Actually, it does happen. In fact, right now, there's a daisy chain of male dogs in my back yard.

This is just plain ignorant. McDonalds stops communicating with the Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, and now they are OK with the hypocritical AFA?

Utter nonsense, and most people posting on this board have no idea what that relationship was about. Was McDonalds actively promoting the 'gay and lesbian lifestyle' by giving out free happy meals if you said you were gay? Were they letting gays and lesbians set up 'promotional booths' in their stores? Sheer nonsense.

And, as a gay male, I don't eat at McDonalds anyhow. Too many calories and trans fats. So, go ahead those of you who defend your bigotry and McDonalds cave-in to the AFA - there are too many other very real issues affecting our lives than to be concerned about this petty culture war that is WAY past its expiration date.

Boycott means “to ostracise”, it is a weapon used by the weaker, subordinate group, not “a time-honored tactic of religious groups everywhere. “

The two examples given—Ghandi and King—were not *religious* but *political* leaders and the name and practice of boycotting originated in 19th c. Ireland as part of the Irish Land League’s agitation for tenants rights (fair rents, fixity of tenure, free sale).

Captain Charles Cunningham Boycott [no relation] was a British land agent whose ostracism by his local community was not economic but social: Neighbours would not talk to him. Shops would not serve him. Local labourers refused to tend his house, and the postman refused to deliver his mail. The British gov’t in support of the land owner sent foreign labourers and troops. Boycott estimated it cost the gov’t £10,000 to harvest £250 worth of potatoes. The League eventually prevailed.

Please note that although Boycott and Lord Erne were Protestant and the Land League and tenants were Catholic the action had NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION OR CATHOLICISM.

The use of the tactics in 21st century America by religious and anti-religious groups only shows that each one thinks * his* interest is at risk. AFter the Dems. sweep Congress and the Presidency prepare to see religious groups utilise this tactic more often.

Guess I won't be eating at Micky D's any more.

FH123 :
Marriage is about raising kids in a stable home, which clearly benefits children. It was never meant to be a right for every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

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Then explain why my husband and I were allowed to marry. When we met, he was sterile and I was in the early stages of menopause. We couldn't make a baby together if our lives depended on it.
Besides, I already had a daughter who was almost grown (and whom I had raised mostly as a single mom) and I certainly had no wish to start all over again in my forties dealing with diapers and colic. My husband has never had any desire to be a parent. The day we signed our marriage license in the JP's office, my 18-year-old daughter and her boyfriend witnessed it. We will never raise children together, nor was that the reason we decided to marry. We decided to marry for one reason only - love for each other. When we bought our marriage license, no one at the clerk of court's office asked us if we were fertile, if we planned to adopt, if either of us had kids, or even if we really loved each other or were just marrying for joint health insurance coverage. All they asked for was picture ID and exact cash.

As our troops are fighting zealots abroad, we have the moral equivelant of a jihad right in good ole USA. I am so tired of oragainzed religion that I can't even stomach to listen. Enough with my way is better, recognize we all have free will and leave the rest up to whomever you believe; personally, I choose not to believe any longer in any organized religion. They are all to worried about being right and better and finger pointing if you don't fall in step with their views. Taliban anyone?

I am sicked by McDonalds caving to those bigots. This just encourages more of the same. I used to live in the U.S. and moved to Canada. Gay rights are a settled issue here and we look across the border with growing impatience.
When, oh, when is the U.S. going to live up to it's press as the "Land of the Free"
Free, as it cannot be overemphasized also means consenting adults whose lifestyle and orientation isn't hurting anybody personally and while the Religiously conservative may not like it, to be free means EVERYBODY. (NO, I am not including pedophiles: they are sociopaths and quite in a different category)
What is the hang-up?

This whole issue is an issue over what the legal definition of "marriage is" and what is/isn't accepted under that definition.

"Marriage" has been traditionally been defined as a special union between a man and a woman. It has both religious and legal implications, but traditionally it is a religious tradition.

Thousands of years of deeply held religious traditions should not be legislatively changed. The definition of marriage belongs to many domains, and the public legislative one is merely one of them.

People who are willing to legislate away the unique and special characteristics of "marriage" ignore the special religious values that it holds for so many people. They also trample on the lifestyle choices that so many Americans and people throughout the globe have chosen to make.

Consider a counter-example. What if we were to change the term "gay" to include something other than a homosexual affinity for someone of the same gender. Lets say the term "gay" were to include all kinds of affinities... simmilar to the phrase "a fan" like how Red Sox fans feel about their team. Red Sox fans could say, "I'm gay" people would understand that to mean that they were a fan... of something. If they said, "I'm gay about Red Sox" people would understand that to mean they were a fan of Red Sox.

Let's say that we were to legislate this into being. That the usage of the word "gay" would be changed to be considered "a fan". All simmilar definitions would likewise be changed. What would happen?

Firstly, many segments of the gay community would be outraged. The legislative arrangement would have taken away the special character and qualities that we consider "gay". Secondly, people of their own accord would create new definitions to describe what was formerly the term "gay" to still convey the unique and special qualities that that kind of relationship conveys.

In a simmilar fashion people who have adopted the culturally traditional values feel their definition of "marriage" as a religious and cultural institution is under attack. I don't honestly believe there are people who truly understand the issues want to purposely exclude those who are homosexual from having a special relationship of their choosing; however, to change the definition of marriage, an institution which is not merely legal, but also religious and cultural and has implications in each of those components of a person's life for those that have chosen that path is wrong. It is as wrong as the Roman law which placed a deius of the Roman God-Emporer, Caezar Agustus within the Holy of Holies of the Jewish Temple at Jerusalem which caused the people to revolt and eventually led to the Jewish Revolt and the burning of the Temple and the diaspora of the Jews for 2 thousand years.

Those who would change the character of this institution must understand that they are not the only ones with a stake in the definition of the term "marriage." There are also those who have chosen a different path, no less sacred and significant than their own. It may be possible to provide the same legal protections to special partnerships in a simmilar fashion to marriage. But the term "marriage" only applies to a man and a woman. That is how it is defined, to change it would be to dillute its character and special nature. It should not be done. It is not right to those who have chosen that path.

These people have NEVER read the Bible. If they have, they have not read the part about Jesus. Remember the stupid saying going around a few weeks ago--"What would Jesus do?"

If Jesus were to confront them RIGHT NOW they would be forgiven their sins, as they know not what they do. Jesus accepted all. They don't. Pretty simple, I think. Why can't they see this? I would guess guilt, hatred, bigotry. Not exactly Christian per the Bible. They should fall on their knees and BEG for forgiveness. They WILL be dealt with when they pass on. They need to think about how Jesus will judge their intolerance. Pitiful people, we all pray for your souls.

Folks;
Show of hands: Who thinks marriage is a religious activity? WRONG! Marriage is a legal exercise meant to bring two people together contractually. Marraige brings no value to religion...religion uses marriage as a way to "belong" to a group. We all have the "NEED" to belong to something - married people accomplish that by being married and joining the 'group' of other married couples. If marriage was 'religous in nature', what purpose does the Justice of the Peace serve? People can go to the JoP and get married and not mention a word about religion. So, I ask again, who thinks marriage is a religious activity? And by the way, I am married to a wonderful women - the difference between us as a married couple and other married couples, is that we aren't "threatend" by some other group of people fighting for what society has overly supressed in gay couples - the right to love whomever they wish and be allowed to express that love just like I do with my wife!

The only thing for certain is that the Christian American Family Association would have been right at home goose-stepping with the other Brown Shirts in Nazi Germany. What a sad pathetic misguided bunch.

Dear Spidey:

I have another warning from you regarding your biblical teachings and warnings: Sitting in judgement over other people is a sin! Now, let's figure this out on your terms.

1. You think being gay is a sin...
2. You are a sinner as well because of your unique ability to be the "Judge" over other people.
3. Let's see - Gay's sin - you sin... which is more of a sin?

In my view - a sin is a sin. Not outweighed by any other sin or compared to another. So, my friend...I issue the same DANGER sign to you. Don't go there - or you too will be walking the same bridge over a fiery lake.

To equate the civil rights boycotts of the fifties and sixties that focused on reversing the the infringement on the liberty of African-Americans with the boycotts of today against organizations trying to accomodate the inalienable rights of all our citizens witout regard to sexual orientation is sick. The global religious right is not merely Christian. It's just the American manifestation of a global cancer.

Over the years, I have eaten too much food from McDonald's, and I have the stomach to prove it. Thanks to this news, I may now have the willpower to finally stop driving thru and to start simply driving by.

The US imports about 20% of its oil from Saudi Arabia. That means for every dollar you spend at the pump, about 15 to 20 cents goes to the government of Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia it is ILLEGAL to own a bible or a crucifix. It is ILLEGAL to practice any religion other than Islam. You can be arrested for praying in any public place. If those people who boycotted McDonald's do not boycott buying gasoline, they are total hypocrites.

I had not known about this cave-in. I am selling my McDonald's shares.

TheArtistPoet:

No, we're (gay folks and their friends) not the only ones with a stake in the term "marriage" - but NEITHER ARE YOU.

There were people fifty years ago who didn't want the term "marriage" to apply to interracial couples, and found that a deep threat to their sense of themselves and to their religious values. Did they have the right to stop interracial couples from marrying - or from calling themselves "married" - because they didn't agree with their use of the term? Of course not.

You get to "define" what marriage is in your OWN life. You can refuse to acknowledge your gay neighbors' marriage as "real", and you don't have to use the term - but it is unjust for you to stop THEM from using it, or from having the legal rights of civilly married people. You get to "define" what your personal religion's definition is of marriage. You do NOT get to impose YOUR set-in-stone definition on the rest of us.

It means a lot to you to keep marriage as a special elite privilege For Your Kind Only. I get that. It's selfish, unfair, and stupid (what do you lose if the neighbor gay couple is married?) but it's your prerogative to care about selfish, unfair and stupid things. But your neighbors' marriages, families and children mean a lot to them, too. And you have no right to take that away from THEM because it hurts you to give up the self-righteous feeling that you're better than them, your marriage is more real than theirs, your family is superior. You have the right to believe that. You do NOT have the right to bully them into accepting that belief themselves.

And yes, if the word "gay" were used for other things by enough people, its meaning would change, and whether or not gay folks were offended, they couldn't do a darned thing about it. No one has the right to control how other people use the English language. We don't have an equivalent to the Academie Francaise for French, and I hope we never do.

"You can not promote something without demoting everything else in the population."

BS. I can accept and love my gay neighbors without devaluing my heterosexual neighbors. Life is not a zero-sum game.

And for those of you who whine that you get "discriminated against" because you "oppose the gay lifestyle" - when were your marriage rights taken away? Of course they weren't. Do you no longer have the right to worship as you choose or to believe and preach that a kind and loving God tortures his children forever and ever for loving the "wrong" person? Of course you do. Can you shout out on street corners that it's horrible and sick to want to build a decent married life with someone who has the same genitalia as yourself? Of course you can. What are you prevented from doing? Oh, yes, forcing everyone else to adhere to your beliefs.

Let me get this straight.

Gay people acknowledging and celebrating who they are, living as they please, but not forcing anyone else to be gay or live in gay partnerships - "promoting their lifestyle"

Fundamentalist christians (small letters, as Christ never preached selfishness or cruelty) shouting their beliefs out loud, following them as they please and praising themselves for being better than everyone else, but not being allowed to force their beliefs on others - "being horribly discriminated against."

Strikes me that you're both in the same place - both of you can promote your views all you like, neither of you can force them on others. Sounds fair to me.

Despite the boycott, I still go to McToilets all the time ... the restrooms are free and I can't think of a more deserving place to leave my McDumplets! But I always avoid the food at all costs.

I’ll boycott McDonald’s for being cowards and for taking it in the a*s from the Christian Right. The problem for McDonald’s is that all the fat, ignorant, ultra-religious rednecks live off of McDonald’s, and they probably spend a great portion of their food allowance at McDonald’s. The only good thing here is that McDonald’s is helping us kill off this Christian Right cancer by making them fat and unhealthy.

Wish these idiots would move to Wasilla.

Gays rights, abortion rights, birth control rights. Why is the Religious Right always in the business of taking people's rights away?

EyesWideShut,

FYI: The Bible does not say that man cannot judge others. You might see it that way by reading a single verse completely out of context, but the fact remains, God calls us to judge those around us. Granted, there is a "right" and a "wrong" way to judge someone and the Bible instructs us on that.

why are so many religious kooks so judgemental and worried that there is a "gay" agenda??

There needs to be a world wide intervention! I pray for their souls and i hope they see the light and come to the "gay" side!! Afterall, according to the "gay" agenda, for every religious kook I convert I recieve a free TOASTER!

It's interesting that a phone call to McDonald's corporate reports they capitulated nothing; that the person in charge of the "donation" had transfered to McDonald's in Canada which had been in the works before the boycott began and that McDonald's continues to "support the diversity of it's customers". Backpedling doublespeake or did someone interpret this to fit their own agenda?

Globalone

Unfortunately, though, besides judging people as you do, you also marginalize, ostracize, beat, kick, shoot and hang those who are different from you, all in the name of God.

And if I'm not mistaken, all in the "free" US of A.

All this brought to us by the far right (shouldn’t that be “far wrong?”) “Conservatives.”

Interesting that Christopher Buckley (William F Buckley’s progeny) said just the other day “I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.

easmythe-- "The bible is the word of god". Actually there is not one word in the bible that was written by god, or jesus. Every word in the bible, even the ones attributed to god or jesus, were written by man, and as such, open to intepretation. We, in point of fact, have no idea whether what was written was real, or just the deluded ramblings of some ancient wacko. Face it, if half the stuff in the bible were told to us by someone today, they would get a special coat, a fluffy room and some serious medication. Boy, are you in for a surprize when YOU die.

easmythe wrote: "Marriage is between a man and a woman."

Nope. According to the Bible, marriage is between one man and 700 women, with 300 concubines thrown in for fun.

Kings 11:1-3.

King Solomon had nothing on Hugh Hefner.

Garak wrote "According to the Bible, marriage is between one man and 700 women, with 300 concubines thrown in for fun."

WRONG. It was Solomon's choice and not God's. The New Testament taught only one wife.

marycunningham:"AFter the Dems. sweep Congress and the Presidency ..."

From your mouth to G-d's ear. as for the rest of your biased,hate-filled, error-laden version of christianity- Have fun with it now because as sure as you are the rest of us will burn in hell, that's how sure I am you'll be there before us.
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Artist Poet:"But the term "marriage" only applies to a man and a woman. That is how it is defined, to change it would be to dillute its character and special nature. It should not be done. It is not right to those who have chosen that path."

why shouldn't everyone have the right to that path? why can't "marriage be more inclusive, more compassionate, more true to humanity? what kind of special nature do you think marriage really has when there is a 50% divorce rate- and trust me, the majority of those are Christian marriages breaking up. If you people can't respect the institution, how the hell do you declare the right to define it?

KPARC: `What country FORCES their citizens to EAT AT A RESTURANT they don't want too?

You misunderstood. The comment was not about restaurants, but about choice to support. In some countries of the world, its citizens don't have a choice but to buy government foods (there is no private enterprise) which in fact support whatever government agenda there is. In our great country, you can choose to buy from whomever you wish, and if you feel like supporting one marketer over another, you have that choice. Apparently, you didn't know that there are still many countries of the world where McDonald's is not even allowed to open a store.

What amazes me about these discussions is the fact that view that are based purely on 'faith' or 'opinions' suddenly become 'fact', 'inviolable truth', 'dogma', 'don't you DARE to disagree'.

If this is supposed to be a discussion drawn from some interpretation of Christian teachings, Christ made it all so simple for us. He taught us to love God (and stop loving ourselves - LOL). And he taught us to 'love our neighbour' - which absolutely precludes us from passing judgment on others.

As to the issue of 'marriage' - there are two sides to this issue, not one. The religious bigotry of saying 'NO' to gay marriages is based on the assumption that there is only one side to the issue - the religious view. That unfortunately overlooks the fact that a lot of civil rights stem from the status of the parties, and there is no teaching of Christ which involves intrusion in 'that which is Caesar's' - quite the opposite, in fact.

So there is NO reason based in the teachings of Christ for precluding gay persons of either sex from having some 'marital' status analogous to a conventional heterosexual marriage, where they commit to each other and their rights to property, their rights of inheritance, their status for the purposes of taxation, various concessions for 'couples' and so on become the same as they would in a conventional marriage. This is an area which is Caesar's, not God's, and it's high time the people who mouth of on some weird notion that Christ somehow or somewhere justifies all of their bigotry, their hatred, their certainty that they (and they alone!) are 'right' - high time, to cut to the chase, they actually READ what Christ said, and stop mouthing off till they have.

PS - they can also stop drawing down on the Old Testament to further their cause - Christianity is not a continuation of the Judaic faith, for believers (at least) it takes over from and replaces the Judaic faith.

How sad that McDonalds supported the Gay and Lesbian community for so many years, then because the billion dollar business is threatened that "christians" will pull their money out of the business, they decide to cut ties with this world wide community. Are they going to fire every single gay or lesbian employee as well? And how sad that this boycott turns from supporting the G&L community to who OTHER than GOD says marriage is between a man and a woman. In the bible, there are 6, just 6 admonishments to homosexuality, and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. Where is the issue? I am an active lesbian. I am active in the G&L community. We have 3 McDonalds here in my town and i personally will not be giving them my money ever again. Gay Marriage is just like heterosexual marriage. Marriage in the eyes of god, NOT a peice of paper. the paper just makes it legal to take the spouse for all they have. My partner and i have been together 15 years and "getting" married is not a priority. This is because we love eac h other, are not in a hurry to get a piece of paper to prove we are "married" nor do we need to prove anything to anyone else that we are.

Everyone it seems is talking about freedom of choice - ie, choosing to be gay, and that Christians - or anyone actually - should not disagree with their stance. Freedom of choice means that I can choose to boycott - ie, not spend MY money (actually, OUR money considering my husband works & earns a paycheck also) anywhere I choose. I will not spend my money in a place that chooses to support - financially - a group that I do not believe in. It is, after all, my money. That is what a boycott is - refusing to spend money and/or support a business that has practices those choosing to boycott don't agree with. I am not obligated - even though many of you seem to think so - to spend my money to support your choices, your cause. I am not degrading or insulting you because you don't choose to tithe to a church. I am not insulting you because you do not agree with Biblical principles. I do, however, pray for you. Because whether or not you believe in it, the Bible is true - inspired by God, who authored the Good Book through the hands of people He chose for that purpose. Until you think you should donate to causes I believe in, or fund causes I believe in, you have no cause to be angry about a boycott. We in this wonderful country have the freedom to choose how we spend our income, which restaurant to choose for dining. True Christians will follow Biblical teaching, and love the sinner while hating the sin. Boycotting McDonalds - or Kimberly Clark - or Exxon - is a choice - a freedom, and is not a personal attack on your character or behavior. And in response to the person who states one should not boycott Mcdonalds while buying gas from oil companies due to the fact that so much of the oil is imported from Middle Eastern countries. There is access on the internet listing how much oil is imported from these countries - it is categorized by the oil company names (ie, Exxon, Valero, Chevron, etc) and states how much each of these imports from those countries. You can avoid giving your dollars - even though indirectly - to Middle Eastern oil magnates. There is at least one company - BP - that imports NO oil. But again, let me state that boycotting a specific company is a matter of CHOICE - which many of you seem to be in favor of - Personal Choice! May God Bless you!

The drop in moral standards in recent years shows that mankind is living on the edge of civilisation. History shows that debauchery, perversion , moral decline signals the end of a so called civilization. Before judgement there is always a warning. There have been Biblical warnings, Judicial warnings, Political warnings, outrage from society warning against the tide of moral filth sweeping across the universe. Part of mankind is in danger of loosing their moral compass to those that have embraced moral perversity. When nature is perverted or tampered with there is always a penalty to pay. When mercy is spurned there is nothing left but judgement. We are at the end time. The world will end soon, just like Sodom and Gomorrah.Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their wicked works.Fire not water, will destroy the world in these last days. Errol Smythe.

It is very unfortunate that a Corporation as large and bullet proof as McDonalds would cave on this issue to the Christian hate groups. This is not about gay marriage at all. I will boycott McDonalds for pulling out of the Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. This is about the fact that the Christian Mafia does not want any consideration for gay employees. They go after gays with a frightening and evil intent. They are not Christian at all and they have made religion to be a sham. They are just evil and nasty individuals who bully corporations into discriminatory policies that hurt innocent people.

Corporations need to get out of the culture wars either way. So-called "diversity" programs that do not truly acknowledge the diversity of ideas and values among employees are coercive or worse. While I support the rights of private employers, neither do I wish to live in a society where I must check my conscience at the door. Smart employers need to resist pressure from either side and stay neutral. Keep issues of sexual ethics and radical gender ideology out of the workplace. They have no place there.

(P.S. So precious of Mr. Waters to stage a counter-boycott of Disney.)