Will God Smile on the Olympics?

If China has no right to ban religion, then religious people have no right to forcebly proselytize the Chinese. It is so disgusting to observing that these so-called freedom advocates think that only they have freedom and not others. All those sleight insults by those foreign visitors only tell the Chinese how unruly and rude foreigners are, not like people inspired with freedom, human right and democracy.

So now one's personal relationship with God is "religious propaganda"? China should NEVER have been given the Games - China (and its despots, particularly Mao) have killed more people than Hitler, and yet we are all supposed to carry on as though kowtowing to China is the most natural thing. Bovine excrement!

"If China has no right to ban religion, then religious people have no right to forcebly proselytize the Chinese. It is so disgusting to observing that these so-called freedom advocates think that only they have freedom and not others. All those sleight insults by those foreign visitors only tell the Chinese how unruly and rude foreigners are, not like people inspired with freedom, human right and democracy."

Sorry Thmak, you just don't get it. Religiously inclined athletes are not there to proselytize the Chinese. They are there to win gold medals and give thanks to God. Do you have a problem with that?

Wow. Let God be glorified. The world wants us to shut up, but I say that if we did the very mountans would shout of God's glory. God has brought these athletes this far for one reason. They glorify him.

If U.S. track star Sanya Richards wins her 400-meter race, she plans to kneel, say a quick prayer and then point skyward in spiritual appreciation.

"Thank you god for favoring me over the other athletes."

Gloria writes:
"The world wants us to shut up, but I say that if we did the very mountans would shout of God's glory."

Let's give it try and see what the mountains say? I'm guessing they won't say a word about your god.

"If U.S. track star Sanya Richards wins her 400-meter race, she plans to kneel, say a quick prayer and then point skyward in spiritual appreciation. "It's important because I want people to know that I'm not the best because I'm Sanya Richards," said at last month's U.S. Olympic trials in Eugene, Ore. "I'm the best because of God."

And when she loses, what then? Thanks to god for not being the best because of god?

Idiot.

If you are going to host the Olympics you must be prepared to accept all that comes with it.
I guess Darryl Green and Art Monk would have been banished from the "Games" for their performance at the Hall of Fame Inductions last saturday.
Its not easy to be a world class sprinter. So if Sanya Richards wants to give Thanks for the one who " Orders her steps" and in her opinion is responsibe for her "Greatness" Who am I to argue?
The Chinese need to leave well enough alone.
An if they want to provoke an International incident so b eit.

Mr. Waters,

Of course a smile is a wonderful thing, but that doesn't change the fact that people have a right to pray. I hope it causes an incident, and the Chinese government is humiliated by being forced to decided between permitting prayer against (the spirit of) its stated policy, or showing its true colors: deep opposition to religious freedom, whatever its spokesmen say during economic conferences, etc.

Mr. Mark,

I don't see what's idiotic about Sanya Richards' humility. And if she loses, and thanks God for her loss, or at least for having brought her thus far without a final victory, then she will have shown an even deeper, almost breath-taking, humility.

Dear Ryan -

Humility? You find such a statement humble? I find it glaringly self-serving and self-centered.

You think strangely.

Ms. Richards represents the United States of America. She does not represent god, Jesus, Allah, Yahwah, Shiva, Zeus, Osiris, Satan, or any other religious fantasy. She should keep her religion, her superstitions, to herself. Instead of thanking god, she should thank the USA and the American people for allowing her to fulfill her athletic dreams.

It is very appropriate for a mere mortal to acknowledge that in their own perspective, their success is due to God. No other man should interfere with that personal belief.

I hope that every believing Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist etc. will take the time to thank God. Non believers are still free to abstain!

May God continue to Bless America.

Hi, Mr Mark,

Actually, Ryan is correct - such a prayer from a losing contestant would be humble. To understand that, though, you must apply the NY Met's unofficial slogan to religion: Ya Gotta Believe! In other words, if one does pray, one with a good heart knows what humility is. I know you won't understand, and that is ok, no prob. But it really is where we believers are.

CAN anyone PLEASE tell me why atheists continue to post comments in the religion section??? If you don't believe, don't comment. If you don't believe, why would you even care what is said in the religion section?

It is the same on every board and discussion site on the internet. Always inserting comments. JUST let it be, already. If you don't believe, fine, just keep quiet already and let those of us who do in peace.

Washington Post- free speech should not include rude, insulting and nasty comments towards others. Please remove them.

D.Rodriguez:

The title of this place is On Faith. This means, as you apparently have not noticed, About Faith, Concerning Faith. It never says anywhere that is is for believers only. Many non-believers come here because they are curious about us believers (I am Christian). I welcome them - at least the ones who are polite. Most are, even if they are blunt sometimes. And I have been the target of more slime and acrimony here from other 'believers' than from any atheist.

What a stupid topic for discussion.

ARMINIUS: You mean like the comment from GODLESS right above yours. Sorry, I have only ever found the "non-believers" on this site, and many others, to be snearing, hateful and mocking.

I am not saying that there aren't "believers" who can be rude. I am just saying that there really is no need to come onto a religion section, which talks about faith, belief and spiritual situations, if you are not interested in anything more than being smug and insulting.

ARMINIUS, perhaps you were the one who didn't notice, "ON FAITH- A converstion on Religion with John and Sally". It DOES in fact use the word RELIGION.

Maybe they should remember Matthew 6:56

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

These people aren't being humble in their prayer. They want to make a performance of it.

Mr. Mark,

That's because you don't believe in an infinite being who could care infinitely about the "the no
of allnothing--human merely being" (to use e.e. cummings' words) me. You take it, I presume, as a statement that the universe is supposed to be revolving around one athlete. But that's not what's implied, because that infinite being can shed infinite love and focus an infinite amount of attention upon an infinite number of persons.

And you don't believe in Him because it's too good to be true, and because you haven't met Him yet.

But I have, so I do. Neither one's anything to be proud of; they're just facts.

Garak,

And in the United States of America, we have freedom of religion, a freedom that our forefathers recognized to be derived from our humanity and bestowed by our Creator. How better to represent that than by exercising it?

Ryan Haber, please convince me the existence of the infinite being; share your experience of meeting Him. Please don't tell me it was a private encounter.

D. Rodriguez:

Of COURSE the word 'religion' is in the description. So friggin' what? A discussion on religion, meaning, to attempt to penetrate your bias, ABOUT religion, CONCERNING religion. It NEVER says that only the religious are welcome. If that were so, why is one of the panelists, Susan Jacoby, an avowed atheist? Dude, your theocrat tendencies are showing through. Deal with it.

That athlete said this: "It's important because I want people to know that I'm not the best because I'm Sanya Richards," said at last month's U.S. Olympic trials in Eugene, Ore. "I'm the best because of God."

---
So does that mean God wanted all of the others in the race to lose? That's not very nice of him to have favorites.

I'm an atheist but I support the right of anyone to practice whatever religion they choose, where they choose as long as they don't make me feel that I must participate. All the athletes should have the right to kneel and say a prayer, whenever, wherever they choose. This is not proselytizing, but freedom of expression.

D.Rodriguez - I understand your frustration. But you have to understand that as long as their are people among believers like you and I who feel it necessary to mock and insult atheists in comments concerning secular topics, atheists have every right to share their own frustration with those among us who shove their intolerance down the throats of non-believers.

It's a two-way street whether we like it or not.

I presume none of you have actually been to China, worked in China, dealt with the Chinese people, dealt with the Chinese government agencies, or traveled much in Asian countries, right?

Let me prepare you: Everything you think you know about China is wrong. Well, almost everything, let's just say there's a lot more to the story than we get on TV. Beijing is hot as a steel mill in August and the smog rivals Mexico City (where we also had an olympics if memory serves). Once you get past that you'll be stunned at how modern China is today. Most of Beijing, Shanghai and Honk Kong make NYC look very, very dowdy and tired.

From my experience the Chinese respect privacy of religious expression and get a bit bent out of shape when people go around proselytizing and shaking their religious tracts in people's faces. But then, I feel much the same way when I go to the mall in the US.

My guess (I'm not involved in China these days) is that if the athletes don't slow down the schedule and don't interfere with the sponsors' ability to make lots of money - in short, show basic respect as a guest - you'll be just fine.

Take your Bible or Koran or Book of Mormon, etc. read it to your heart's content in public, in the airport, the sports stadium, the restaurants, the bars, etc. and you'll have a great visit. Start speaking in tongues, kneeling or genuflecting, and the Chinese will probably call a doctor. Start arguing with the Chinese about comparative religions and I'd ask you to leave so I can enjoy my visit.

If you want to understand the role of religion in China read up on Confucianism, which is the traditional beliefs of China and much of Asia since 500 BC. Respect is paramount and I think many Christians would find many of the tenets of Confucius to be in harmony with their beliefs.

The Chinese people are a lot of fun, have a great sense of humor if you're willing to laugh at yourself generally intelligent if a bit superstitious (see Confucius), respectful of age and maturity, and polite to guests, or perhaps I should say, polite to people who behave as guests.

So, act like a polite guest and you'll be welcome. Come to my house and start telling me that I will go to hell because I don't follow your religion, and after politely asking you to leave I'll physically throw you out.

Eat food other than the usual US fast food chains of KFC, McDonalds, Hard Rock Cafe and Burger King (although Starbucks coffee may be a necessity for us caffiene addicts), try the duck everywhere you go. Be sure to go to one of the phenomenal duck restaurants in Beijing and you'll never settle for US duck again. Taste the flavor in the vegetables and it will remind you of home grown US food from 50 years ago when flavor was more important than mass quantities

Don't miss the famous Hunan-style hot chilli pepper restaurant across from the Kampinski Lufthansa Hotel. Say "Kampinski Fon-di-an" to the taxi driver and he'll get you to the hotel. Then look for the big red pepper neon sign across the street. Mmmmm....

Asia is a real learning experience for most Americans. Not only don't you have a clue about reading Chinese characters, but the cultural traditions, spices, smells and density of population is truly beyond...your...comprehension.

Go with an open mind and you'll wonder why all the propaganda portrayed China as a scary place.

I think they should just do it instead of making big showy confrontational speeches about doing it. It smacks of the hypocrites praying loudly in the town square for the sake of an audience instead of God that Christ warned us about.

One question for all you God-fearing lovers of Jesus, .45 handguns, and literal interpretation of the Bible .... do Muslims and Jews get to pray too, or is that reserved for you folks?

I have a better idea, it's called a boycott. Turn off the TV and all the stupid commercials that come with it. While you're worrying about if someone can say a Hail Mary, millions of Chinese are being forcibly evicted from their homes, locked up without thhe slightest suggestion of a fair trial, and slowly dying due to the worst air and water pollution on the planet. Forget the prayer shield, get off your fat conservative asses, and for just once, join or stage protests wherever you can against China's horrendous human rights violations .... and turn off the games.

I find it unbelievable that China expects people to change their ways to accommodate their ways. The olympics is about bring different nations together and we all believe different things. China shouldn't have been selected if this is the way they are going to be. And I have a hard time with this article stating that they are Atheists, and outside clergy are not invited, but we can use their clergy .... aren't they atheist? Doesn't make sense to me.

From my perspective when a prayer is done right no one will know.
Prayer is not about waving arms outstretched, eyes closed and looking up at the ceiling.

Thats showboating your religion on your sleeve.

Inward silence and simple awareness of each moment that reality bring us is all that's required.

Michael Canfield

Just commenting on the person who said this was a "stupid topic". The article is about faith, what don't you get?

OBERLE: "Religiously inclined athletes are not there to proselytize the Chinese. They are there to win gold medals and give thanks to God. Do you have a problem with that?"

I don't, so why do you think that China does either? If you don't believe me, go to China yourself and pray LOUDLY on a street corner 50,000 times a day. Trust me, China doesn't give a crap, and the police will pretend not to even see you.

The only person who gives a crap is this xenophobic article. Stop believing this ignorant dross.

I'm curious to see what the official "state" reaction will be.

My view is simple, our founding documents are based upon the premise that our "rights" to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, come from our Creator. Not from the benevolence of man. And that all human beings, regardless of what country they happen to be born in are endowed with these rights.

The juxtaposition is China, where the state believes that whatever "rights" or privileges that citizens have come from the benevolence of the state, not our Creator

Understanding this juxtaposition helps to understand how China emphasizes the primacy of the state over individuals.

Since there aren't individual rights that you inherit as your birthright from your Creator (China's view), these rights and privileges have to be given by the state. And controlling these rights is the purview of one Party, the Communist Party.

This basic fact about understanding the American view of human rights and how we acquire them, and the Communist Party view is critical to how we will deal with each other in this century.

I applaud the athletes who demonstrate in their own personal way that their life and the rights they inherited don't come from the state, but from our Creator.

God, if there is any sort of god, surely has no connection whatsoever with prayer. Prayer is just carefully focused hoping. The ignorance in this world is stunning. Prayer is bad enough, worry about people being allowed to pray is asinine.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, third US president, architect and author (1743-1826)

National_Insecurity (what an apropos handle), you must have felt glorious in all your smug, self-satisfied condescension. I'm glad you've visited and/or worked in China and I'm aware, as I'm sure many others reading this are aware, that China is an ancient civilization and a booming modern state and that there is more than just religious intolerance to it. When I get the opportunity to I'd love to visit China myself (I loved visiting Japan and South Korea during college). However, the issue being discussed here is how to deal with the fact that some athletes, especially athletes who were born and raised into a religious tradition that to many is as important as their life itself, may take their moment of glory and share it worldwide through a statement of faith. I agree that sports and religion has become more gaudily and publicly mixed in this country over the years but the fact is that no matter what we think and feel about it some athletes will still do it. We can find it gauche, call them ugly Americans and tell them that "when in Rome..." However, to those who will do it they are still Olympic athletes and the Olympics is an international space. One hopes these athletes exercise some level of respectful discretion but telling them to change who they are would be like telling Yao Ming not to play for his national team because the Houston Rockets and NBA are more important. Neither will happen.

Why not!

Look back at Western history, most of the wars were instigated by different religions. Even not too long ago, an American general made a public claim that my (Christian) God is more powerful than your (Islamic) God!

But if you examine past Chinese history, there were a lot of wars but very few was due to religious reasons since China is always a secular state. Contrary to what depicted in West Media, Chinese always have freedom of religion. Right now, five different religions are officially approved, Catholics, Protestant, Buddhism, Taoism and Muslim. What Beijing is strictly enforcing is the Separation of Church and State which is termed as Religious Oppression by the West.

Ryan Haber and Should Be Interesting: Our rights as Americans derive from our being US citizens. They do not flow from any mythical "creator." That's why the Founding Fathers rejected attempts by the religious right of their day to make our Constitution refer to god or Christ. In spite of revisionist history proffered by the religious right, our Constitution is a secular document needing no support from or approval by any "higher power." Nor do I or any other American. My rights as an American cannot be limited by any religious doctrine, as would be the case if some "creator" was the source of our rights. If this were the case, this "creator"--or his or her self-appointed or self-annointed representatives on Earth--would be free to revoke any and all of our rights. They could, as some on the religious right claim, deny rights to all but christians; or rather, all but their kind of christians. Think "Rev." Hagee and Catholics. If our rights derive from "Rev." Hagee's god, Catholics are toast.

D. Rodriguez: If atheists can't post comments on religion, then believers should not post comments on science, economics, or any other topic based on rational inquiry. Religion affects atheists, so atheists can comment. And believers can comment on science and economics.

National_Insecurity: It appears you've been to China. Is the pollution as bad as it's made out to be? I understand US companies have had trouble getting Americans to relocate to China to what should be a plum assignment because of the extreme air pollution.

there is no God. However the belief in God is a matter of personal freedom.

This article and subject is, as an English writer once said, "much ado about nothing."

Garak, wrote
"National_Insecurity: It appears you've been to China. Is the pollution as bad as it's made out to be? I understand US companies have had trouble getting Americans to relocate to China to what should be a plum assignment because of the extreme air pollution."

To be sure pollution in many Chinese cities is bad. I almost moved to LA back in the late 70s, but the smog was terrible. I've been to Mexico City in the 80s when you literally didn't want to leave the filtered air of hotel. As the plane descended into the brown air everyone on the plane started to gag and I could taste the smog on my tongue. I'd compare Beijing to Mexico City and LA in those eras.

I've also been in Cleveland, Pittsburg, & Gary during the steel-making days of the 60s when you literally took you life in your lungs in some neighborhoods.

I was working for small US company traveling back and forth frequently. If I were with a big US firm like some of my new found friends who get 2 months vacation plus hardship duty pay so they can get out of Beijing every weekend if they want.

You couldn't pay me enough to live in Beijing due to pollution. Shanghai is another matter - and in my opinion - the most dynamic city in Asia today. I like it better than Taipei which is not as international. Singapore is very clean and exciting, but not as dynamic as Shanghai. Tokyo has emerged from economic doldrums of 90s but is "old Asia" in my view and not as innovative as Shanghai, unless you're headed to the Akihabara.

America's war against godless communism is still a very strong theme in USA-China policies. The Pentagon strongly wants war with China and backs the Dalai-Lama. Maybe the Beijing Olympics will be to the new Christian world what the Berlin Olympics were to the post-WW2 world: a showcase of the evil society that we are about to destroy. Onward, Christian Soldiers, Marching As To War.

But Sanya Richards is mistaken, She isnT the best because of God. She is the best because of luck, her workouts, her access to American resources, etc. For her to insist on praying public is just her attempt to politicize religion, to propagandize her position. Her demonstration has nothing to do with her faith.

I beleive anyone who follows the teachings of Christ would understand the need to boycott the Olympics by not watching any of the coverage on TV.

This sends a message to the Chinese government that people of conscience will not accept their human rights abuses.

It was nice to hear from you, David Waters - we need more of your wonderful take on things.

It is in the nature of many religions to not like being suppressed. I don't always wear my religion on my sleeve - but if I'm told expressing it is forbidden, I'm far more likely to try to express it or even insist on expressing it.

I don't know how well educated on US religious views (or those of other countries) the Chinese leadership is, but the man in the street has little knowledge of such things, and I think the leadership is happy to keep it that way.

A few years ago I was giving a lecture in Xi'an, China - I thought I'd been invited to talk about Computer Science - when a student in the audience asked, "Please explain US Tibet policy." I went back to the 1600's and 1700's, wars of religion and state churches - part of the standard communist education on the evils of religion - and explained that the US had been settled by many people who came here precisely to avoid state interference with religion. Americans know very little about Tibet - before or after the Chinese takeover - but when the Dalai Lama came out and said "government interference with religion" he had said the magic word for Americans. Discussion afterwards suggested that this root of US feelings aboutr Tibet was not known to most of my audience.

Many Americans - and many others - strongly oppose government restrictions on religion, and a rule against praying is likely to cause more, not less, praying, and more public praying.

I'm not sure the Chinese leadership gets it, and I doubt that the message will be conveyed to the Chinese public. But I sympathize with those who want to try. (Try peacefully, that is. War is not the answer, despite some suggestions in this discussion.)

"so why do you think that China does either? If you don't believe me, go to China yourself and pray LOUDLY on a street corner 50,000 times a day. Trust me, China doesn't give a crap, and the police will pretend not to even see you."
------ I guanrantee you it is true. I grew up in China. This article is so patronizing.

"Not even China can stop people from smiling."
------ What a joke! The author is a retard or something?

Mike O: wrote:

"National_Insecurity (what an apropos handle), you must have felt glorious in all your smug, self-satisfied condescension."

.....

Goodness, I haven't been called condescending or smug since I was elected a Rhodes Scholar while in the seventh grade!

In all earnestness, I apply a test to help me measure my actions while traveling in other countries.

Mike O wrote further: "...especially athletes who were born and raised into a religious tradition that to many is as important as their life itself, may take their moment of glory and share it worldwide through a statement of faith."

In my experience in China, as well as other Asian countries, if an athlete won a race and kissed the ground and pointed to the sky they would be more offended by kissing the ground because it's dirty.

Let's swap countries. If someone from Country X visited my neighborhood and felt in their heart of hearts that they just HAD to exhibit certain public behavior how would I feel?

I'm also persuaded that not all demonstrations are inoffensive or benign by the 1936 Games when the Nazis were attempting to portray themselves as superior in not merely athletic performance (quantifiable) but in genetics (not quantifiable).

Again, kiss the ground, point to the sky, do a victory dance, thank Mom and Dad, let your freak flag fly, and I doubt anyone in China or the olympics gives a fig about it. Flash a non-sponsors' logo and you have a problem. Thank you holy spirit of profit.

Where I have a problem with this religious one upmandship is the distinction between someone telling me they were inspired by ____ to practice everyday by a belief in ____, and them telling me that ____ chose them to win. (I'm presuming ____ is a deity and not a drug.)

And yes, I am an agnostic.

The post by "Anonymous" at 5:46pm should have been attributed to me. Apologies for not checking sooner.

"For a lot of people, praying is like breathing. So how do athletes practice their faith in China without engaging in "religious propaganda"? Should they even try?"

You know, praying's like breathing to me, too, and here in America, being overtly demonstrative about who I'm praying to could have immediate and nasty repercussions any time it pleases some Christian.

Maybe you're just spoiled.

It's not that hard.

Dear Ryan -

Your "facts" about god are opinions, not facts. Saying they are facts doesn't make them so.

As far as the existence of god being "too good be true" - surely, you're not talking about the god of the OT and his partner in crimes against humanity, Jesus? What the hell is "good" about such a creature if such a creature existed? A creature who would welcome Jerry Falwell to his bosom while hurling Albert Einstein into an everlasting fire? You call that good? I call it sick.

Happily, it's all a fantasy and of no real consequence.

BTW - if Ms Richards is intent on giving thanks to the gods for her imagined triumphs in Beijing, shouldn't she be thanking the Greek gods? This is the Olympics, after all.

Thomas, Susa, Garak, you have it right from this UU's standpoint.
IMHO, religion is private and should be kept so, except for places like this and broadcast programs that are designed for an exchange of opinion on faith; during religious services, live or broadcast, or in religious schools; in media outlets sponsored by religious organizations; and in private discussion.
National Insecurity, you make me wish I were going to Beijing--and on a tour of China!

Thomas, Susa, Garak, you have it right from this UU's standpoint.
IMHO, religion is private and should be kept so, except for places like this and broadcast programs that are designed for an exchange of opinion on faith; during religious services, live or broadcast, or in religious schools; in media outlets sponsored by religious organizations; and in private discussion.
National Insecurity, you make me wish I were going to Beijing--and on a tour of China!

Sorry for the repost! I didn't think it went through.
S.

" USA USA USA:

"If China is against religion, we should send 100,100,000 members of our rifle team over there and teach them how to shoot non-believers!"

Err.... What religion were you speaking for again, and it made you the good guys *why,* again?

Somehow I have trouble telling what's satire anymore, these days. Sorry if I missed some.

To elaborate upon my earlier succinct comments, this article is essentially quite inane. Saying athletes competing in the Olympics in China may not pray is as absurd as saying students can not pray in public schools. Students can silently pray, whoever said prayers must be oral and loud enough for others to notice, to be a prayer? Students can pray aloud before they go to their classes, during lunch, in the halls, etc.

I do not think anyone in China will object if certain athletes pray aloud, what some people there and elsewhere in the world may not approve of is if any athletes blatantly violate Olympic rules about refraining from engaging in "religious propsganda," which is a somewhat vague rule. The persons on International Olympic Committee should clarify this rule.

""I see it as a very small thing. I may not be able to hold up a sign or tear off my shirt with a tattoo of John 3:16, but it doesn't mean I can't have a smiling face and still give glory to God."

Well, that's good. Gods forbid someone shouldn't be able to take metaphorically any sort of spiritual import they might derive from *games in honor of Zeus* or nothing.

Gods, what do you *want,* people?

"Olympic spirit," remember? many tribes and nations? The human drama of athletic competition?

Could it be it's *not* about anyone's personal religion? Cause if it is, you Christians aren't the ones who get to call in the lawyers, metaphorically-speaking.

I say, let's put the Olympus back in the Olympics.

Just cause in the NFL it pleases the crowd to ostentatiously cross yourself a few dozen times after the big TD... doesn't mean that sort of display is the *point,* dig?

I mean, come on, maybe that Christian's worried whether or not he can strip off some well-sponsored-and compensated clothing bearing the name Nike...

If the Games are insufficiently *sacred,* let's hand out some olive oil, and the athletes can aspire to Nike's favor as the Gods see them.

Maybe they can have tattooed on their bodies 'this Space For Rent,' and that'll honor the Olympic spirit, ...why, if they go to someone else's country to compete, they should of *course* expect *all the obligatory genuflecture they've come to expect in the circuses at home,* right?

I say, any host nation that isn't America should be denounced as a *tyrranical* regime for not allowing our true Olympians their God-given rights to advertising. Let them show their devotion by weaing only olive oil, and some chalk, and what they deem fitting to tattoo.

This, of course, will bring an Olympian peace to all nations, as the Good God intended.

So may it be.

(Technically, you're also supposed to stop *shooting* people for the duration, but what can we do)

"It's important because I want people to know that I'm not the best because I'm Sanya Richards," said at last month's U.S. Olympic trials in Eugene, Ore. "I'm the best because of God."

Bizarre. You're "the best" because of your training and genetics you goon! Of course God created you at the center of the universe and you can influence Him thorough the power of your magic mind! He WANTS you to win - and of course therefore he WANTS the others to lose as maybe they are not as worthy as your blessed self!

Do any of these morons actually have the ability to think with anything other than their amygdala?

In fact, for once the Chinese appear to have got it right. Religion is innately divisive and erm spurious would be an understatement... - if you want to believe in fairies at the bottom of your garden then keep it private; if you are a public figure of any sort you should be looked down upon for bringing your dirty laundry out in public.

Of course it was said in jest pagan. It was also stolen from something John Candy said while playing Chairman Mao (about 30 years ago).

Well, *technically,* victory in the Olympic games means... You get to wear leaves off a sacred tree.

Which *did* mean your strivings best-pleased a face of 'God.' Not cause of being 'really good at the pentathlon cause of faith,' but *cause you strove there in honor of something bigger.*

Anyone wants to bring it there, I'm all for it.

I get the impression this ain't what the columnist wants out of it, though.

If praying at the end of a victoy is such a problem then china should not be hosting the Olympic. Religious expression is part of who we are and no one should hide it just cause someone does not like to see it.

" USA USA USA:

"Of course it was said in jest pagan."

Well, like I said, it's so hard to *tell* these days. :)

"It was also stolen from something John Candy said while playing Chairman Mao (about 30 years ago)."

Yeah, cause some fake teeth and makeup *really* gave him command of he legacy of the Boxer Rebellion. Phew.

" Levi:

If praying at the end of a victoy is such a problem then china should not be hosting the Olympic. Religious expression is part of who we are and no one should hide it just cause someone does not like to see it."

I think you're not understanding a little something, here, Levi. The Games are meant to be *apart* from religion and politics. In days when the God they were held in honor of meant something to people, the Olymic Games were a time of peace.

In modern times, they are hosted in many places, but they are still in honor of a God of, among other things, *hospitality.* This involves people being good hosts, but also athletes being *good guests.*

It's not a place for Fundies to go advertise and trumpet whatever they think being a professional athlete gives them.

It's *meant* to be about the athletics.

It *shouldn't* be about some Christian radical afraid to not get obligatory approval if he takes his shirt off.

It *should* be about no one wearing shirts in the first place.

It *should* be about us all being human.

And someone's missing the point. As much as there is to complain about regarding China.

Really, who gives a rat's behind whether the Chinese allow the athletes to pary ? The're guests in China. They can pray when they get home.

Hey, so happens it's the year of the Rat. Which side would you like? :)

you know so little about China that most of you imagine her under tyranny, but actually most Chinese people do live a happy life, all of them are so glad to host guests coming from afar, they attach so much importance to Olympics. Ever since they were authorized to hold the Olympics, all the people began to prepare, improve tne enviroment, traffic, write songs, all the TV programs are have something to do with it. YOU really need to touch China more, not only watch your papers and TV. Please.

Let's see, the USA has boycotted past Olympics for one reason or another. That reason always has been something that the USA feels is central to what the USA is all about, like the time we boycotted the Olympics because the USSR had invaded Afghanistan.

Strangely, it doesn't appear that the USA will be boycotting the Olympics over China not allowing Christian prayers during the Games, especially during award ceremonies. I say strange because some people aver that the USA is a Xian nation.

I would aver that the fact that the USA is not boycotting the Games over this prayer issue is more proof that the USA is not a Xian nation. At the least, the issue of no prayers doesn't amount to a hill of Jack Squat when it comes to the good ol' USofA!

Mr Mark-

what you don't get , because you are so damn self absorbed in your atheism, is that Christians don't take the credit for their triumphs but give glory to God. They don't revel or point to God in losses, just walk away knowing God gave them the ability to do their best.

Man, what strange ego you have.

Ok, if claiming 'Reasonable Not Hateful' weren't a big red flag under any circumstances, I must call BS:

"what you don't get , because you are so damn self absorbed in your atheism, is that Christians don't take the credit for their triumphs but give glory to God. They don't revel or point to God in losses, just walk away knowing God gave them the ability to do their best."

No, you claim any victories mean your God has particular sorts of power, and any defeats are to be ignored.

The Olympics are an *international* event, and it's not the world's fault if you are not pandered to in this manner.

" Sally G:

Thomas, Susa, Garak, you have it right from this UU's standpoint.
IMHO, religion is private and should be kept so, except for places like this and broadcast programs that are designed for an exchange of opinion on faith; during religious services, live or broadcast, or in religious schools; in media outlets sponsored by religious organizations; and in private discussion.
National Insecurity, you make me wish I were going to Beijing--and on a tour of China!

August 6, 2008 8:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments"

Yes, I remember a time when decent and graceful people did not discuss religion or politics, particularly if the other did not share your beliefs.

I hate to quote Scripture to you people but, "Do your GD praying at home in a GD closet, you GD Hypocrites"

Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com

" should be interesting:

I'm curious to see what the official "state" reaction will be.

My view is simple, our founding documents are based upon the premise that our "rights" to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, come from our Creator. Not from the benevolence of man. And that all human beings, regardless of what country they happen to be born in are endowed with these rights."

Does that include the prisoners at Guantanamo, the Palestinians, the Iraqis or the Afghanis that we so casually humiliate, abuse and slaughter daily?

Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com

It's blasphemous to pray before a mere sporting event.

It's especially blasphemous when a team prays to win such an event.

Praying after victory is OK. God did give it to us, after all. He does rule over all things, even sporting events. HOWEVER, if one is going to pray after victory, one must also pray after defeat. "Thank you, Lord, for humbling me in my pride. Keep me always mindful not of my glory, but of yours. Amen." Otherwise, it's hypocrisy (not blasphemy).

If God is your co-pilot, switch seats.

If it's OK for Dear "neauseatious" Sally to insult the death of Tim Russert at his requiem, it must, according to her thinking, be OK to pray anytime you chose for an appropriate personal outcome or does Sally's conceit presume omnipotence.

Godless,

I don't know you. All I know about you is that you are "godless." I wouldn't discuss with you how I met my wife in order to prove her existence - she is my wife, not an object of debate. And I won't discuss how I came to know the Lord Jesus Christ in order to prove His existence - he is my Lord, not an object of debate. It doesn't matter to me personally if you deny the existence of God or the Lordship of Jesus, and I'm not trying to win an argument about the merits of my personal experiences, and am not interested in whether they convince.

There are objective reasons for believing the existence of God, but that is another matter entirely.

Proselityzing is a poltical act of aggression against your neighbor; it is not loving your neighbor.

What part of this don't Christians understand?

This fundamental and basic disconnect undermines Christianity.

So, the institutions of Christianity are able to make some converts, but at what cost to the integrity of the basic tenets of Christ?

I think that, if I was an athlete in this year's Olympics, I'd pray, or give the appearance of praying, even if I didn't do that normally. Simply because it would p*ss off the Chinese censors. :D Make it as ostentatious and obnoxious as possible, just to make a point.

Especially if I was a Tibetan Buddhist.

I agree, PP! The last Olympics, in Greece, were awe-inspiring to me. I mean, one of the venues really WAS at Olympus.

The ancient Olympics were all about peace through athletics, and striving to do your best for the Gods. Not marketing or whose God is best. Too bad we can't get back to that ideal.

(BTW, I'd love it if someone other than Fundamentalist Christians would pray ostentatiously after they win an athletic event.)

I'm in favour of banning all religions - they do nothing but divide people. They have and will always be, all about power, wealth and control over others.

The existence of a superior being or beings is not only anti-intellectual but the worst fraud ever perpetrated on mankind. It's primitive superstition write large in our modernsocieties, and nothing more than the willing suspension of disbelief on the part of the poor, deluded faithful.

One has to feel sorry for them.

Athena,

Be careful what you wish for... in the ancient Olympics, women could not compete, and married women were not permitted to watch.

Dear RNH -

Your contention that Xians give glory to god when they offer a public prayer after winning an athletic event flies in the face of what your overseer Jesus said about praying in public places.

These athletes are the modern-day equivalent of the Pharasees who were all about displaying their faith in public to show the rabble how good and blessed they were by god.

Were these athletes taking to heart what Jesus said, they would withhold their prayer until they could secret themselves off to a private spot to commune with their overseer. I don't remember Jesus giving a waiver to athletes on this, neither do I recall him limiting the privacy of prayer to any particular type of prayer.

Athletes praying in public is just another act of self-aggrandizement that is as unnecessary as it is distasteful. That they reserve their public displays for the occasions on which they win is the most abject form of poor sportsmanship imaginable.Their praying in public has nothing to do with their chosen god (Jesus) and everything to do with the healthy ego that allows them to perform at a level of accomplishment beyond the norm.

Prayer as an extension of one's ego. Hate to point it out to you, but there it is.

Mr Mark,

You said, "Prayer as an extension of one's ego."

Well, not always. For me, it is mostly giving thanks, for the beauty of Creation, for friends and family, for a nice event, for life itself. When I ask something of God, it is for help for someone I know, and occasionally guidance for me. As a matter of fact, it was this thankfulness that led me back into belief.

With a few exceptions, I always pray when I am alone, or in church. When I do pray around people, and not in church, I do it silently.

Sometimes, prayer is just prayer.

Other times, it is a politial symbol of religious expression.

I guess each person must decide for themselves, what prayer will be to them.

Arminius -

When I wrote "prayer as an extension of one's ego" I did so specifically in reference to the athletes under discussion, not as a general statement.

I thought that was pretty clear.

Mr Mark,

I mistakenly assumed your statement about prayer was meant to cover all prayer. My bad, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Dear Arminius -

No problem.

I'm a bit surprised that the usual Xians haven't taken up my point about praying in public. It's pretty clear to me: praying in public is a BIG non-no with Jesus. After all, there are few things that Jesus *specifically* discussed to this degree of specificity, and one would think that Xians of all stripes and all sects would take his words to heart. Indeed, I'm surprised that some Xian sects don't rail at Xian athletes who engage in this spectacle (or, perhaps some do).

What do you think?

Mr Mark,

I remember full well that passage in Matthew about praying in private. It struck me hard, even at my first reading (out of four) of the Gospels. I too am surprised that more Christians (note spelling, LOL!) have not mentioned it - a few have, but not many.

Only twice, IIRC, have I prayed out loud in public. One was at a family gathering, the wedding of my great nephew, who was bound for Iraq a few days later. I said a blessing upon him and his friend, with the family Clan (Clan Scott) surrounding them. Fortunately both came back, uninjured either physically or mentally. My great-nephew was a gunner on a humvee - he is one solid dude to have survived that.

I'll omit the other out-loud prayer for now, I've been too wordy!

Hello again MS. J A C O B Y, et al;

ON a Little bit of HOPE, not Luck.

YE saith, "The great appeal of God, in the mind of a true religious believer, is that "HE" can never fail.

Hint: If YE Learn to use "IT" instead of "HE/HiM/His" then the World Will Change Forever People-Wise! And Thus ALL Will become "APOCALYPTARiAN(s)-NATiONAL's International!" Anywhere an "HE" appears, Chang to "IT" instead. What a World of a Difference this can Truly (opposite of MYTH) maketh!

WHEREFORE: Think Globally & Act Locally with a little bit of HOPE!

Note: "G-D is Never/Zero/Not a "HE"HiM nor a "SHE"Her, If any, G-D is an "IT" being "iTSELF" in and of Us Animates & Inanimtes via "IT"s "ETERNiTY AVOiDiNG LONLiNESS" Effect-ion!, not CULT-ures, not SECT-ions! Birth is Genuine holy Cosmic “LOVE & JUSTiCE” [inseparable like Static-Electricity is separate entity’s but inseperable from Electric-current] , never is being birthed /born free, as ABRAHAMiC's man-made Systems bollixedly Thinketh, is as if some Sin/Curseth Story. Includes the ending of All Ye Karma's , Reincarnations etc.. via the Moksha VEDiC man made bollixed minds story Systems!

--- Soo,

For an ex-Jewess 'Princess' YE surely are screwed-up. Amazing (no Grace)!

Note: “i’m a happier EX-JUDEO-JU.

Ye also Said, "..The basic appeal of religion to the poor is that it promises in the next life what its adherents do not enjoy in this life.."

note: Ye sound like YE (you & World) are 'Rich' or 'Comfortable' of sorts here or there. And that Ye do not owe anybody an apology. Like Stuck-up maybe?

---

FACT: YE , As An Openly Admitting 'Straight Person?' HAVE-RElIGiON wether Ye liketh "IT" (G-D) O' Not! AND

YE canot deny that "HiSTORY is O.U.R. JURY!"; And Everybody's Buisiness aye?????? Sooooo,

Ye in fact All hath Religion! Yes! Ye Atheists & Agnostics too hath Religion! ALL 'HUE{MATES}' hath R.eligion, wether they like-a o' not! iNcludes Secular!

If Ye Apply History awareness From Whence Ye (Us Creature-Kinds) admittedly Cometh [via History; i.e. miraculously appearing Vibrationaled, Flashed, Evolved , from Historic-"TiME", aka Absolute HOLY Hot & Cold mixing WORK of the Potentiate (Source-One) , think of "BiG-Bang", aka Huge-Flash 1st, Theory. Then ,

via the Cone-View or Arrow of TiME's past AWARENESS that Ye also have "H.O.P.E.", Better TiME's Towards the Future-Bound Effect, not Biblical Mosaic-Effect not Jesuaic-Effect, not Muhhamdaic-effect, not Vyasaic-effect not Gautamaic-Effect.., ONLY the E.C.A.T. + "i" = LiFE/Photon Effect! And That

Awarely , WE, aka MEMETiCly Goeth Eternaly Forwards & thus Holy-Cosmically WE are Space-Forthing Around for another ESCHATOLOGiCAL POSSiBiLiTiES" of O.U.R. Selves!, from Past, Current & Tomorrow, aka Hear-in-After...

Summary: ANY/EVERY & ALL HUE{MATE}-Kinds, , not HUMAN Un-Kinds, believe (innately/Naturaly) in H.i.S.T.O.R.Y. , the Holy Grail of H.O.P.E.! Sooo,

Please do not DeNY H.O.P.E. , via H.i.S.T.O.R.Y, to YE selves, Loved Ones, nor OTHER's!

-----

FACT: Under the 'Eclat{i}ON's "HOLY COSMiC FEELERS FAITH" System [Ho-Co-Fe-Fa], a Belief in History evoluting "iTSELF" (G-D doing 'IT's Thing), like a Religion, yet Based On TRUTH (opposite Of MYTH system(s)) And

through our "O.U.R.-B.O.T." [O.ne U.niversal R.eligion B.ook O.f T.rans{finity}], aka the "HOLY-COSMiC-BiBLE" , That

Under a subsection Entitled: "R".=i.S.(E)P.M.="G".
" WHERE:

R = RELiGiON is Natural & Innate {R.eligion Is The HISTORiC Component of Ye selves, aka Bio-Mental Finite-MEMETiC forms appearing miraculously, not via Tenach, Bible, Quran, Gita, Tripitaka, Kangyurs, as if Miracle Story's or True (opposite of MYTH)..} Justly for a TiME (via TEMPERATURE) not space or clock times.

Note: Apocalypticaly this means that ALL ABRAHAMiC & VEDiC, competing for a Name for god INSTEAD of O.U.R. G-D System(s) via BOOK(s) are all FALSE! Yet, ALL their Infixus-Books is our Problem! WHY?

Because on the other side is the "G" [Government] component, a not innate not Natural "ENTiTY" which is Truly a MAN-MADE Endeavour. And in between

"R" + "G",

is "i" (for 'i'NTELiGENT/iNTELECTUAL) + "S" (for 'S'ociological/networking) in "E" (meaning 'E'CONOMY/Activities) and "P" (for 'P'OLiTiCAL) + "M" (for 'Military Might).

This PROVES that out of "RISEPMG" component "R" is always innate & Separate from "G" a man made Entity! (Imagined, but Felt, especially when unjustly enforcing Biblical Morality INSTEAD of MODERN MORALiTY!

Behold! The RELiGiON of Everything, before the SCiENCE of Everything is finally Here!

We ECLAT{ARiAN}-NATiONAL's, are born in Miracle (we are Chosen) and Never Born in any Man-Made (never Innate) as if god-made book Story!

---

Summary: innate-made R.eligion = i + S (E) P + M = G.overnment man made not innate SYSTEM!

Note: Man-Made, not innate/natural "iNSTiTUTioNS", Under Halakcha or Sharia or Caste System (they are a form of "G.overnment for S.ociety which they too 'ENFORCE' their Pre-Apocalyptic brand of thinking. Yet "RISEPMG" is good to asses Any Nation on Holy Cosmic Nebula-Built Space-Ship Earth Today.

iMportant: World Populations Explosion & Food Shortages are gonna be the Scourge of Space-Ship Ma/Pa Earth(s). Eating man-made Bible(s) or Quran(s) or Tenach(s) or Gita(s) or Tripitaka or eating Kangyurs etc.. BOOK(s) is not gonna Help! So

Let's H.O.P.E for a Better FUTURE BOUND & SPACE-FORTH Active EXPERiENCE's. And HOPE can usually be obtained by both MEDiTATiNG (Listening to YE own ECLATi) and to PRAY (Talking to O.U.R. ECLATi).

To Mediate (listening) & to Pray (talking) is HOPE! (innateness to 'Expect from History'. for Good, never for Bad outcomes).

REMEMBER: We was Never Created Nor Can WE ever be Destroyed. And that Apocalyptically speaking, since LiFE is a Miracle & Zero man-made Sin/Curseth superstupidstitious folk lore Story's , that

When WE "ECLAT{i}ON"(s), never OFF(s) have another BiOFiNiTE-DEATH Experience, does not mean that "IT" (Fiat-Lux) is TRANSFiNiTE[reality]-DEATH experience!

Fact: WE are Eternal HEURiSTiCa/o's [ immortal SOUL] that simply & Prophetically planet-Hop via Great Great Grand/MA/PA NEBULA(s), and hath Magmapercolatedly evolved and thus today Holy Cosmically Appeared out of the OCEANiC-MEGA-PLUME Womb effect on Holy Space-Ship Earth's of Many, & we are gonna goeth towards the Non-Gravity Place again via the Holy PLASMATRiCULATiON Effect here, for another "DUE-TO-BE" moment of O.U.R. Eschatological selves, wether Ye Lieketh "IT"s TRUE (opposite of MYTH) innate story or Not!!

PS: For Us APOCALYPTARiAN Nationals, the "UNIVERSE" = O.U.R. Innate & Genuine Hol{i} 'CONSTiTUTiON'. And The "LAWS OF ["IT"] NATURE" = innate 'CLAUSE's' for ALL Us HUE{MATE}'s to forever Magnify, uphold & Make Honorable unto Real END OF TiME (via TEMP.erture) +/- 2.5-3.5 Billion Years from Today! Not Man Made , as if, genuine god Books!

YES! There is H.O.P.E because there is HiSTORY + FUTURE, else ZERO!

Note again: Even The "FiAT-LUX', aka ECLAT + "i" = LiFE/Photon awareness has an Attitude, or more like a Personality; And "IT" goes like This:

"For "I" followeth thy own LAWS/CLAUSES & Thus Doeth the Thing, hence hath "I" P.O.W.E.R., Else, IF "I" do not this Thing , then "I" + "i" have zero P.O.W.E.R.! No UNiVERSE = NO Holy CONSTiTUTiON to be aware of. Or No LAWS OF NATURE = No CLAUSE to Magnify! Lifeless!

HALLALUYA!

Wow! What an Attitude!

Praise The HOL{i}NO-WOMB-MEN! Praise “IT!

From: The ECLAT{ARiAN} PROLITARiATE Party of AMERICA & The WORLD to be:

Birth is LOVE, hence JUSTiCE! Therefore, TRUTHFULLY "In E.C.L.A.T + “i” We Trust!" Soo,

Here are YE Holy Cosmic “TETRA-NEEDS“ on Space-Ship EARTH & other Planets! Followed by the “THE TEN FiATS” Of The “NEW-SONG” ( plus 3 alternates, aka 13-Fiats) for a better World to LOVE, TRUST & liVE in!

Note: If YE are Minus ANY one of These TERTA-NEEDS below, then Houston Ye Have a Problem!

^ .^. ^
FOOD
http://{J}
http://.{O}
http://...{Z}
http://......{E}
http://.........{V}
http://............{Z} @Us
HOME
http://................{J}
http://..................{O}
http://......................{Z}
http://.........................{E}
http://...........................{V}
http://..............................{Z} @Us
L♥VE
http://.................................{J}
http://....................................{O}
http://.......................................{Z}
http://..........................................{E}
http://.............................................{V}
http://................................................{Z} @Us
CLOTH
http://.....................................................{J}
http://.......................................................{O}
http://..........................................................{Z}
http://.............................................................{E}
http://................................................................{V}
http://...................................................................{Z} dot
us

1:F♣♣D To keep from disappearing;
2:H♦ME Abode to sleep/enjoy/protect;
3:L♥VE, someone to or have companion;
4:CL♠TH, something to wear!

IMPORTANT: Rich, Middle-class or Poor, Besides Keeping Busy that, If YE hath All these “4-Tetra-Needs“ then Ye hath No Worry’s , in the World, on this Blesseth Holy Cosmic Miraculous, & zero biblical Sin, Holy Cosmic NEBULAS-built S.paceS.hip Planet EARTH, aka S.S. GAiA, S.S. GEOiD, S.S. TELLUSng something!

--
Paid For: By the JOKTAN-Eberu-Race On Holy Earth!

NOT by Rabbi Mozues, Not Rabbi Jezeus, Not Trader Muhamazeus not Poet Vyasazeus not Official Gautamazeus Not... ONLY

Us "ECLAT{i}ON"s, not OFF,s Eberu Race of AMERiCA" aka "JOKTAN-NATiONAL(s) Party U.S.A."

Nice knowing YE!

===

“THE TEN (10 plus 3 alternates) FiATS Of The NEW-SONG” Of The “Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith“:

1) "Let there be NO Worship of JEALOUSY as a G-D.!"

2) "Let there be NO Abuse of LOVE to forgive UNCORRECTED-SIN(s)!"

3) "Let there be NO Hassling over a NAME for G-d!"

4) "Let there be NO Denial of FREEDOM OF {ECLAT{I}{ONiTY} or
Apocalyptarianity as Religion et al!"

5) "Let there be NO Dishonoring of HONORABLE Parents!"

6) "Let there be NO Unjustifiable HOMICIDE or HURTING!"

7) "Let there be NO Sex with Non-CONSENTERS or BEASTS!"

8) "Let there be NO Theft from NON-THIEVES or NON-USERERS!"

9) "Let there be NO False WITNESSING or Un-JUST Judging!"

10) "Let there be NO Envy of {HU} {MATES} or Folks keeping these FIATS of O.U.R.
NEW-SONG!"
-
11) “Let there be NO Denial of TETRA-NEEDS (Food, Shelter, LOVE & Clothes) to
Any 'Hum {ate} {Kind}!'

12) "Let there be NO Procrastination nor LAZYNESS nor Idleness & Sloth!"

13) “Let there Be NO Denial To Self Nor Others in contemplation of REALITY, aka Ye Holy Cosmic Miraculous “TRANS FiNiTY}!” Hence “O.ne U.niversal R.eligion” B.ook O.f T.rans{finity} [O.U.R.-B.O.T.] on a genuine Miraculous HOL{i} Cosmic mission & purpose.

---
By: {j}{o}{s}{e}{v}{z}@Us:

O.rdained R.elationship M.inister [ORM}, Revelator & Defender of the 'Holy Cosmic Feeler Faith, aka 'Ho-Co-Fe-Fa' System; a belief like a religion, yet better that‘s based on TRUTH (opposite of MYTH Systems) & Lover’s of the "O.U.R.-B.O.T.", aka the Holy-Cosmic Bible, ala "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion B.ook O.f T.rans{Finity}" aka “The RELiGiON of Everything before the SCiENCE of Everything” like-a-dat.

Originally Posted August 6, 2008 2:45 PM , But Deleted by JealousY of NEWS CORP. et al!

Ye Will Be Suid! And Ye will recieve Lots Lots of Strange. Ass-Oles!

Att: Blogger Maria, J A N N A , Moderator David Waters et al,: on Prayer.

Hello Cyber-freund.

Interesting sounding 'Prayer-mix' @ 08.06.08::10:47P..

---

Today is 'Eclat{i}ON' Day: And thus under APOCALYPTARiAN Calandate, “iT” is,

"Universal Year Circa [UYC] 3.98Billion,08.07.2008-Millenium,10:45a-Atomic!

"Praise The "Hol{i}-NO-MEN" , the WARMTH of “iT“ & HALLLUYA!" :Happy Every Day w/HOPE!”

---

According to the Ho-Co-Fe-Fa's System via our "O.U.R.-B.O.T.", aka thee "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion B.ook O.f T.rans{finity}", and under Subsection 36:16 entitled:

"HiGH PRAYER OF ECLAT{ARiAN}-HO.LY-CO.SMIC FE.ELER(s)-FA.iTH"

Note: IMPORTANT: Befor "i" beginth please knowth that, the last-word of O.U.R. Cosmic "HiGH PRAYER...", 'H-O-L{i}NO-MEN", means

"O' SCARED-NAME" & thus the 'Hol{i}No-Men' is neither a he/Him/His nor a She/her, but an "IT". So "G-D" has 1,000 Names & No-more 999 Names! Soo,

'O' Sacred Name' is the Proper way to Profoundly Conclude an A-P-O-C-A-L-P-T-Y-i_C 'Prayer' and since "IT" (aka G-D) stands for EVERY good-Mention of 'SOURCE-ONE's S-U-P-R-E-M-A-C-Y..

[Eponymous 'ECLAT' + "i" = LiFE/PHotons Awareness, MIRACLE appearance , ESCHATOLOGiCALLY again , here & there & from] of whom ALL HUE{MATE}’s must, unto Genuine ‘END OF TiME” must daily Magnify, Uphold & Make Honorable within the Holy Blesseth “REPUBLiC of Space-Ship Earth“ starting from Americ Continentals!

.. in ALL/EVERY & ANY of Space-Ship EARTH's HUMAN-Made [Not HUE{MATE}-made] RELiGioN Systems, competing & Hassling over a Name for 'god' "iNSTEAD of "G-D"". And,

"IT" is not-APOCALYPTiCALY PERMiSSIBLE to address the PRE-APOCALYPTiC "AMEN"-re, AMON-ra, AMEEN, RAMMA, OMMM, AUMMM.." saying, aka 1/2 Mon-1/2Beast Idol Thanking , that artificially ariseth from & out of HUMAN (not HUE{MATE})

"JELOUSY"

[O.U.R. ECLAT is Not-Jealous & thus Fearless] of the BiBLE(s), QURAN(s), GiTA(s)... which the "O.U.R.-B.O.T." identifies as the DEViL/STATAN/KALi/JiNN... behind Rabbi MOZEUS & Rabbi JEZEUS & Trader MUHAMMADaZEUS & Poet VYASAZEUS & Prince GAUTAMAZEUS, GURUZEUS, CONFUCiUSEUZ.. And,

All Those Pre-Apocalyptic Faiths are or have ANTi-CiViLiZATiON, ANTi-NATURE, ANTi-ECLAT{i}ON's etc.. Doctrines, directly or indirectly Satanically Encoded Therein & Thereto & Therefrom, but FREUDiANTLY SLiPED , via Genuine Prophecy, In many Selfish & Jealous Story’s also.!!

---

Note Again: To Meditate = 'Listening' to Ye Eclati & Praying= 'Talking' to O.U.R. ECLATi for better HOPE, aka FUTURE-HOPPING].

----

NOW here's the "HiGH PRAYER OF ECLAT{ARiAN}-HOLY-COSMIC FEELER(s)-FAiTH" And "IT" sing like This;

iMPORTANT: The Prayer is 'Hol{i}, Hol{i}, Hol{i}.'and best of ALL, "IT" is a "SECULAR's Prayer & a THEiST's Prayer. Neutral between PUBLiC-PRiVATE & Gender Friendly between a MAVORiTE (Gents) & SPORADE (ladys), a/k/a

The "RELiGiON of everything, before the SCiENCE of Everything!". So Pleaze Do-Not END ye prayer's with "AMEN" or "AUMM" or "OMMM" or Similarly Pre-Apocalypticlly Situated , as the 'BiBLE-BOLLiXER"(s) , aka 'BiBLiO-MANiAC'(s), also DO & DEny "IT"! [D & D'rs]!

-- NOW,

"Dear ECLATi of my Hol{i} HeartBeat//O' Lord G-D ECLAT Almighty//Please Hear my BiOMENTAL Prayer fully//and grant me the SYNERGY of Your Way's//"i" LOVE Your NEW-NAME 'ECLATi'//

"IT" is hol{i} holy{i} holy{i}//Your Kingdom is coming to pass SYNERGETiCALLY On EARTH// As YE planned IT again in O.U.R. NEBULA//"i" LOVE Your NEW-SONG, and "i" LOVE Ye For 'IT'//And

"i" ask that YE guide "me" in IT daily//Give "me' the Holy iNSiGHT & PATTERN RECOGNiTiON//To enjoy-LiFE & to make a good Living//Forgive 'MiZANiCALLY' O' ECLATi//

In Proportion to how "i" forgive Others//The TEMPTATiONs that Befallen 'me'//I Do Not Need, SO, DELiVER ME FROM EViL NOW//"i" LiVE in YE Kingdom to AVOiD LONLiNESS//And

"i" perceive the GLORY of YE Hol{i}-Cosmic "TRANS{FiNiTY}"//A Miracle Who's Prophecy is NOW cometh//Please interpret 'my' H.O.P.E. in terms of YOUR Glory//

O'CREATOR, and GRANT 'me' what "i" Deserve//HOL{i}NO-WOM-MEN//!"

---
A BEGiNNiNG, w/NO END!

Hear Ye, Hear Ye, O' Sweet Sweet U.S. of A., et al, We are now TRULY (opposite of MYTHs) ONE!"

O' SACRED NAME, O' Lord, Hol{i}-No-Men, Thank ECLAT+i = LiFE/Photons Awareness, NEW-SONG coming from ALL ye OLD-SONGs/Story's!

BEHOLD!

AMERiC is now Officially The Center Of the Ho-Co-Fe-Fa" SYSTEM [Holy Cosmic Feeler Faith: a Belief , like a Religion but based on TRUTH (opposite of MYTH)] ! And

NEW YORK, U.S.A., is now also Blessethly & Oficially Prophetical, As the 'CRADDLE' OF "GRiDARiAN-DEMOCRACY & TRANS{FiNITE}-CiViLiZATiON" and

The Birth Place [At Mt. TRANS{FiNiTi, N.Y.] of the "O.U.R.-B.O.T.", aka the "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion B.ook O.f T.ransfinity" , aka the Holy Cosmic Bible & more Good Prophetic Tidings Cometh, to a Neighborhood near YE, out of Tsuch innate TRUTH (opposite of MYTH man made systems), soon soon, very soon 2013 +/-!

A Consciousness Who's "TiME" [via O.U.R. illusive & Mysterious Holy Cosmic "TEMPERATURE" Appearances, aka MiRACLE, not clock, space-timetime nor Any Ancient Biblical thinking-'Feeling' & man-made Storys] in Apocalyptically unraveling for HUE{MATE}-Apocalyptarian-Nationals-Sake not HUMAN(s)-Pre-Apocalyptic thinkers Bollixed Consumption!

iMPORTANT: Something on "ECLAT{i}ON-MEDiTATiON":

To 'Meditate means to 'Listen' to ye Eternity Avoiding Lonliness Miracle Cosmic HeartBeat Appearance , in SYNC w/the Holy Ecalti, that's JUSTLY Photonized, in Ye holy Carbon-Based "FRONTAL-LOBE", for a 'TiME' (via Hol{i} 'TEMPature'). So

Standing, Laying Down or Anywhere: DO THiS:

On, "E", Breath-in "E" slowly until ye internal GAS is almost full of ECLAT's Presence, then justly as Slowy Exhale saying "CLAT" and justly before YE reach Maximum Palindrome, then again in Same pace, iNHALE on "i""i""i"............ and when nearest to End , Exhale saying quickly "NO-WOM-MEN" or 'HOL{i}-No-MEN!"

Note: Interestingly: ECLAT{i}ON, not ECLAT-i-OFF, innate System of Faith, Eliminates the 'Pre-Apocalyptic REligio Ailments' known as "Synergetic-Less SPLiT-MiNDED Thinking" & "REligio Jealousy Psychosis" & PRE-APOCALYPTiC SYNDROME"s.

--- WHEREFORE:

REMEMBER: “SECULARiTY” [Officially A REliGion like in AMERiC] via the “SiNGULARiTY Of ALL RELiGIONS MOVEMENT [Not PLURALiTY as some folk Jealously suggest & promote] herein & there, On Holy Cosmic Nebula-Built (not Bibles) Space-Ship EARTH(s), is about

the “RELiGiON Of Everything, before the SCiENCE of Everything” AND That

“MODERN-MORALiTY” (via Apocalyptic Nationals) are Superior to Any [PRE-Apocalyptic thinking Nationals] BiBLiO-MORALiTY competing for a Name For ‘god, not Source-One’ , systems!

“iT”s (G-D) & by 1,00 names, no more 999 names, is ABOUT “TiME” (via Holy Cosmic TEMPERATURE, not man made time & space Clock thinking)!

BEHOLD! The Almighty (by 1,000 names) Consents , but Only Via “TiME!” “iT” (ECLAT) is TiME (TEMPtr.) An NEW-SONG coming from all O.U.R. OLD-SONG/STORY(s)!

HALLALUYA! Praise ECLAT's "Ho-Co-Fe-Fa"s System and our "O.U.R.-B.O.T."!

Thank The LORD-O'-"i"-Holy-No-Men! O' FiAT-LUX!

Please: Do not Be in Denial to Selves nor Others , especially to yE Loved One(s) + ECLAT!

---

PEACE, PAZ, SHALOM, SALAAM, AHiMSA, ZHENGYU..” and in Any Creature Tongues; LOVE, Huggs & Kiss’s, to ALL, EVERY & ANY of O.U.R. Brights (Mavorites-Lads) Brothers & O.U.R. Si{star’s} (Sporades-Ladys) Sisters, and or Forgotten HUE{MATE}’s, not HUMAN(s) anymore!

---

By: {j}{o}{s}{e}{v}{z}@Us:

O.rdained R.elationship M.inister [ORM}, Revelator & Defender of the 'Holy Cosmic Feeler Faith, aka 'Ho-Co-Fe-Fa' System; a belief like a religion, yet better that‘s based on TRUTH (opposite of MYTH Systems) & Lover’s of the "O.U.R.-B.O.T.", aka the Holy-Cosmic Bible, ala "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion B.ook O.f T.rans{Finity}" aka “The RELiGiON of Everything before the SCiENCE of Everything” like-a-dat.

Thanks to Both PROPHET(s), of Many, like Many Earth(s), Their Honorable [Dr.] ‘ALBERT Einstein’ (of the Ho-Co-Fe-Fa awareness) And Honorable [Dr.] Harry W. Theriault’ )of the O.U.R.-B.O.T.) P.eace B.e U.pon H.im/H.er (pbuh or Them et al) RESPECTFULLY! Yes! “iT” Takes Two To Tangle, Hence APOCALYPTARiANiTY Religion! A NEW-SONG” cometh from AL O.U.R. Old-Songs/Storys, unto Genuine END OF [Eschatological] ’TiME”! (Via TEMPERATURE. Not Clock nor space time thinking).

The Smell of Canine stew:

Fact: OBAMA was taught to Eat "DOG"-meat: Soo

Please, keep ye Pet DOG(s) away from OBAMA & Family!

Also Cat's?

----

VOTE: The ‘APOCALYPT-ARiAN’ Prophecy!

VOTE: McCAiN, GOG (Truth) thinking, not OBAMA, MAGOG (Illusion) wrong-thinking!

VOTE: “’Marriage is sacred between a ‘real-MAN & a real-WOMAN“, not a Man with Man, etc.!

VOTE:
The "NEW_NAPOLiANS", aka the "NEO-NAPOLiAN's" , like John McCain & Condoleeza Rice et al, and NOT like them "NEO-CON" ventriloquists Clinton's, Gores, Kennedy’s, JesJackson, ASharpton, Lu Farrakhan , Bshabaaz, Oprah etc.., of Obama's-Pipe-Dream-TEAM & thus Zero ‘CHANGE’ nothing New! What a Fib!

.........P.............
.........E.............
.........A.............
.........C.............
L O V e R O C K
.........R.............
.........O.............
.........L.............
.........L.............

--

..........................McCain for PREZ 2008!

...........................................Condoleeza vPREZ 2009!

VOTE: "ECONoMiC MiGHT, Not MiLiTARY MiGHT!" This TiME Around!

VOTE: Stable or Lower Oil Prices!

VOTE: Finish what is unfinished, and Globally ,as well as Locally ,fix What is Broken, and not fix what's not broken, but Prevent!

G O O D -- B Y E Mr. G.W. BuSH et al!

HELLO McCAiN-TEAM ! A better FUTURE with 'FRESH' Faces & “SMARTER” minds!

VOTO/A:

Peace (English), Paz (latin), Shalom (Eberu), Ahimsa (Hindu/Urdu), Salaam (Arab), Zhengyu (Sino), ... & more Good Tidings coming YE-WAY!

Thank Ya.

Gracia Yo.

Todar!

Shookria!

Shookron!

Zcee Zcee or Doe-jaey, Respectfully!

Pay'd For, By the American JOCKTANian-PARTY of the "ECLATi{ON}" Votary Assoc. 2012+

{{{{{ Justly, "In E.C.L.A.T + “i” = LiFE/Photon Awareness We Trust!"}}}}}}

Another mistake by Mr Mark.

Within the context of what Jesus was saying.... he said go into the closet when you pray , yes... but within the context of those that pray to bring glory to themselves.. these athletes that do this give glory to God almighty, not themselves. It has nothing to do with their own ego.

"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they (B)may be honored by men (C)Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full."

Basically he was saying that we should pray in private within the context of ego and bringing glory to ourselves.

YOu just don't like any display of religionists in the public arena, and want to critique ANYONE that does something you are adamantly against. Tough, dude. It's called free speech, and if it gives glory to God, I can't argue with it. Jesus prayed in public at times too, and so did Paul and Peter.
Doing it in public is an incredible witness to the communists that there is something more important than their regime they worship so much.

BTW- their "chosen God" (big G, dude) is GOD. You better turn your life toward him. HE is waiting with open arms.

RNH rolls out the trusted "in the context of" defense to give us HIS interpretation of what Jesus was "basically" saying, thus side stepping the SPECIFICS of what Jesus actually said when it comes to praying in public.

Incredible as it may seem, many Xians have no problem railing against homosexuality, even though Jesus uttered nary a word about it. They rationalize their homophobia by citing some OT verses that deal with homosexuality and then extrapolate a scenario wherein Jesus musta been against it because he said all of the law was operational until the end of time, and that must include homosexuality. Of course, they don't apply the same rules to the wearing of polyester clothing, and - if Xians living in the USA are any indication - they certainly don't apply the same narrow reading to, oh, most of the Ten Commandments. Stealing, adultery, divorce, coveting someone else's property and bearing false witness are part and parcel to everyday life in a country where 75% of the population self identifies as being Xian.

On the other hand, when Jesus' very words specifically address the issue of praying in public, his CLEAR meaning and intent is suddenly open to interpretation(!), as if his simple and direct words aren't good enough to stand or fall on their own merits. Amazing.

Typical of those who cherry pick scripture to fit their world view/political agenda.

JJ is off his meds again but must he "be banned forever"?

Not unless you want to also ban some of the crazy neochristians who post here like Spiderman.

Who's to say who should be banned and who should not? That's the beauty and freedom of the blogosphere.

I don't think Focus on the Family is actually trying to channel God's power to bring ill upon Barack Obama. This seems more like a lighthearted play against their political opponent. Whether you find it funny or not, it is certainly more innocent than the truly virulent attacks slung around at elected officials these days (some of which are represented in the above comments).

The real people who lack humor are the paranoid demagogues that are moaning about theocracy or spitefully and thoughtlessly railing against believers all because some man says that he wants DNC to get rained on.

American politics would be a more productive and congenial arena if people on both sides of the aisle all religious persuasions could learn to put things in perspective and laugh rather than resort to pious indignation.