Comments (30)

I am a scientologist.
To clarify a point Scientology is a religion as a religion has the purpose of improve man as a spiritual being. All the books, courses and counseling in Scientology are aimed at that.
I wish that other religions would have developed a set of discoveries capable of reaching the goals that a person can reach in Scientology.
The "salvation" of an individual depends on what it does and on the steps he takes to become more aware as a being. On my viewpoint his "salvation" does not depend on the wishes of a "god".

Spidy2:

What was that you said about "hats"?

Now look what you've done, Spidey, with *your* advertising you've resurrected the corpse of Usenet spam. Nice going.

Dear Ms Hofmann

Thank you for providing On Faith forum readers with very controversial and interesting topics for discussion.

I wish you all the very best on your own faith journey and in your professional life. The faith journey never ends until one dies. The challenge is to feel free to search everywhere and be open to all truth and have the wisdom to discern it. What I wish for you as a Christian is the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit along all your paths no matter where they may lead. No matter how dark and confusing it may sometimes seem remember there is no place where the Holy Spirit does not reach out and guide you.

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

The truth is simple but hard to understand.

1.I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the FAther but by Me. (John 14:6)

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way but it's not that simple to FIND the Way or to FIND HIM.

2. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD. (John 1:13)

It's is Jesus Himself who "appoints" us and not just us choosing him. It's a two-way process. You seek for him and it's HIM who finds you. False religions are those with a "step by step" process how to be saved. The Bible is a good "Map" how to seek for Him.

3. "and NOT that of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God... For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Once you understand this verse, you are on the right tract.

Keep this and read it over and over. Good luck with your search. Continue with that humble and searching heart and the Lord will reward you. Stay away from the ideas of your mother.

I mean, Anonymous, I'm not sure you understand what you're saying, here:

"" So if you have an issue with what Spiderman2 is saying about "fearing" God and "hell" your issue is not with Spiderman2 it is with God."

If Spidey-boy's fears actually rule the universe, then, to make a Bostonian understatement, 'we might have a problem, here.'

If he were to convince me the Universe were really that petty and unjust, I could not in any good conscience do other than *rebel.* Whatever the reward or penalty.

I am a Gael, like my ancestors before me. With just enough Italian to take it personally.

We do not bow to terror. Not from no one. In the words of Oisin of the line of Fionn, give us an illusion of a Hell, we'll say, 'Padraig, give Goll Mac Morna an iron tug for his flail.'

Any Hell that can scare you out of right and honor already won. Any God that gets off on torturing me for not believing Spidey's sadism can do his worst.

*spit* Any Heaven of which they say the 'cheif delight is watching the torments of the damned' is no Heaven.

It's something else. I want none of it.

Still Anonymous, eh? Afraid to get called on consistency, are we?

""Paganplace wrote, "you speak of nothing but fear and aggression and bigotry and violence, and the idea of delighting in other people burning in your Hell for not believing your irrational diatribes.""

"That is your personal interpretation of Spiderman2's writings and admonishments to you,"

Would you like to propose another? Or are you trying to claim the universe is that pety and cruel after all?

Pardon if I call BS.

" however scripture does state that "fear" of God is knowledge and wisdom. "

Frankly, you guys had like fifteen hundred years to not-constantly-contraindicate that notion, and I'm still not seeing it.

"Having said that you should have respect for Spiderman’s beliefs and what he is saying is consistent and in accordance with what scripture states will happen to a non-believer."

I may respect faith, but I do *not* respect a kid drooling over the suffering he imagines others going through for not genuflecting to his vicarious sadistic majesty, thanks very much.

Just cause you wanna give him a 'Scripture' to give him permission for that, well, stop coming crying to me when you think Metallica albums are a 'bad influence.'

"Look at it this way, Spiderman2 is repeating much of the time what scripture teaches Christians about God's plan for man, believers and non-believers."

You're right, there's really no distinction there. Doesn't make it *right,* ..in fact, I'd start questioning the more-politely-phrased assertions of those he learned that garbage from in the first place.

" So if you have an issue with what Spiderman2 is saying about "fearing" God and "hell" your issue is not with Spiderman2 it is with God."

It really isn't.

Paganplace wrote, "you speak of nothing but fear and aggression and bigotry and violence, and the idea of delighting in other people burning in your Hell for not believing your irrational diatribes."

That is your personal interpretation of Spiderman2's writings and admonishments to you, however scripture does state that "fear" of God is knowledge and wisdom. Having said that you should have respect for Spiderman’s beliefs and what he is saying is consistent and in accordance with what scripture states will happen to a non-believer.

Look at it this way, Spiderman2 is repeating much of the time what scripture teaches Christians about God's plan for man, believers and non-believers. So if you have an issue with what Spiderman2 is saying about "fearing" God and "hell" your issue is not with Spiderman2 it is with God.

Proverbs 1:7, (7)"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Proverbs 6:12-19, (12)"A scoundrel and villain, who goes about with a corrupt mouth, (13) who winks with his eye, signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,(14) who plots evil with deceit in his heart—he always stirs up dissension.(15) Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant; he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy. (16) There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:(17) haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, (18) a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
(19) a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers."

Enough said.

Claire,
Best of luck on your next assignment, and completion of your memoir!

You are an excellent writer. Your compassion and willingness to explore ideas from multiple vantage points has been a treat to read.

You will be missed.

Best to you!
Gina

Religion wrote:
"Religion is what you believe in. You could not live unless you believe in something. When you stop believing, you stop living. There are only two powers in the earth, good and evil. Either you believe in one or the other. "

What a load of codswallop. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Paganplace, part of my post disappeared, so here is the rest ---

It is *illegal* in Germany to express any support for its Nazi past. Any group/political party with racist agendas are banned and rise of such groups are carefully monitored by the protectors of the German Constitution. Radical groups have a really tough time in Germany. The Germans have learned from their Nazi past. They do not live in denial, nor are they stuck it in. They have moved on and rightly so.

Pagan, You are not a teachable person. It's useless to talk to you. You should read the parable of the talent. The one who didn't increased the talent given to him by his master berated his master for being rude. You know what? You personify that servant. Im afraid you will roast in hell and the sad fact is that I think nobody can help you.

If you were born with the ancient, you are the likes who will fight to the death that the earth is flat.

Here I have a secret and pls don't tell anybody. Do you know that I saw Spiderman? He was swinging between buildings. Very interestingly, he wants to meet you. For what purpose, I don't know. Let's keep that a secret, ok?

Spidey, if Arminius ever posts under Anonymous, it's by an oversight he apologizes for and identifies himself.

You claim everyone must blame non-Christianity for all that's wrong in the world, and claim to be 'for real' cause you're blindly literalist to absurd lengths when it suits you, yet, you speak of nothing but fear and aggression and bigotry and violence, and the idea of delighting in other people burning in your Hell for not believing your irrational diatribes.

The Anonymous that cautioned you may or may not care about anything more then the best way to 'make more converts,' but at least might *possibly* get the *point* of this Jesus you demand everyone kneel to.

Clearly you just kinda get off on demanding people kneel and thinking your God will beat people up if they don't.

And that's not Christ, in any sense that that name refers to any friend of you, me, humanity, or the Earth.

I did read your not-actual-apology the other night, by the way. You said you 'panicked' that I'd read you saying those things as an excuse to call you on it, repeatedly.

Why does your 'great faith' lead you to *that* reaction?

Or is it *fear?* Fear of your God, fear of your Devil, fear of your *you,* perhaps? Fear you're trying to displace onto others?

Maybe you should listen to some of your more enlightened Christian elders.

And maybe, for their part, they should be concentrating on *you* instead of the gays and nonbelievers you think you'll get positive attention 'rebuking.'

Good luck, kiddo.

Claire,
I've enjoyed most of your posts.

You're open minded, tolerant and curious. You question things. You're a good writer.

But you're a seeker first and foremost. In time like all seekers you'll find.

Best on your next assignment.

Seems like the "lawyer who doesn't believe in the Constitution", Arminius, is now using the Anonymous tag.

Good luck Arminius with your foolish kind of christianity. Continue with your "Bible-free" Christianity and your gay-ministered church.

To the other anonymous, Im fine, Thanks.

Would the real 'Anonymous' please stand up?

Seriously, folks, pick a name and stick with it. It's not difficult.

Brother/Sister "Spiderman2, thank God I was a Christian before I read your post. For if I was not a Christian and had to judge Christianity based on your posts, I would have been turned *off* from Christianity.

This coming from a Christian should give you reason to reconsider your method of attacking people with Christianity. You give serious Christians who are discerning in the way they present Christianity only to those who are genuinely seeking in the right way with sensitivity, a BAD name.

This forum in case you didn't notice isn't your churchyard or street corner to proselytize. If you would contribute meaningfully, then respond meaningfully to the questions instead of preaching AT people. Do you really believe that anyone seeking to convert to Christianity would be blogging on this forum. This forum is meant to increase acceptance of different religions. If you want to preach AT people, why don't you choose a fundamental Christian blog which people would visit to hear your style of preaching. There are over two *billion* Christians around the world. You give most of them a bad name with the way you seem to attack everyone with your version of Christianity.

Would you kindly do other Christians the favour of mentioning the Church you belong to, so that bloggers don't mistake you as representing over two *billion* Christians?"

...................

You call your post a “better” Christian attitude then Spiderman2’s? Think again.

Dear Ms. Hoffman,

I so regret your leaving. Your last thread garnered almost 1,000 posts. I wonder why M. Waters couldn't blog under a different banner.

Thank you for all your wonderful essays.

Farnaz

Ms Hoffman do not *ever* lump Scientology with other religions. EVER. Ron Hubbard himself was an honest man in his own way. He left it to the accountants and lawyers to convert his ideas into a religion. Hundreds of bloggers tried to tell you that.

Read the best *books and Scriptures available in the open market* about religions and you will get a clearer view. Good luck in your search with true openness.

Spiderman2, thank God I was a Christian before I read your post. For if I was not a Christian and had to judge Christianity based on your posts, I would have been turned *off* from Christianity.

This coming from a Christian should give you reason to reconsider your method of attacking people with Christianity. You give serious Christians who are discerning in the way they present Christianity only to those who are genuinely seeking in the right way with sensitivity, a BAD name.

This forum in case you didn't notice isn't your churchyard or street corner to proselytize. If you would contribute meaningfully, then respond meaningfully to the questions instead of preaching AT people. Do you really believe that anyone seeking to convert to Christianity would be blogging on this forum. This forum is meant to increase acceptance of different religions. If you want to preach AT people, why don't you choose a fundamental Christian blog which people would visit to hear your style of preaching. There are over two *billion* Christians around the world. You give most of them a bad name with the way you seem to attack everyone with your version of Christianity.

Would you kindly do other Christians the favour of mentioning the Church you belong to, so that bloggers don't mistake you as representing over two *billion* Christians?

Spiderman2, How are you?

Very good advice you gave to Ms. Hoffman. At least she is still searching for finding truth.

I always enjoy reading your post as well as reading Ms. Hoffman's articles.

Ms. Hoofman, good luck and know that you will be missed.

Ms. Claire Hoffman,

Thank you for all your essays in On Faith. I look forward to your future essays here and the very best in all your endeavours.

Thank you.

"J"

The truth is simple but hard to understand.

1.I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the FAther but by Me. (John 14:6)

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way but it's not that simple to FIND the Way or to FIND HIM.

2. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD. (John 1:13)

It's is Jesus Himself who "appoints" us and not just us choosing him. It's a two-way process. You seek for him and it's HIM who finds you. False religions are those with a "step by step" process how to be saved. The Bible is a good "Map" how to seek for Him.

3. "and NOT that of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God... For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Once you understand this verse, you are on the right tract.

Keep this and read it over and over. Good luck with your search. Continue with that humble and searching heart and the Lord will reward you. Stay away from the ideas of your mother.

You will be truly missed. I have just recently started my own blog on the topic of faith (or lack thereof). All the best...

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

Religion is what you believe in. You could not live unless you believe in something. When you stop believing, you stop living. There are only two powers in the earth, good and evil. Either you believe in one or the other. The most perfect example we have of good is Jesus Christ. When you stop believing in Him, there is only evil left, like it or lump it. Naturally the evil powers oppose the good, and visa versa. Therefore the closer you live to God, the more the evil powers will fight against you. Look around and see who is the most persecuted religion on earth, and there you will find the closest to the good religion. There are many religions that follow after the majority, weather it is right or wrong. Even those who profess to believe in neither God nor Devil must believe in something, and that becomes their religion. Religion is something you can't get away from. Either you are becoming like God, or you are becoming like the Devil.

Religion is what you believe in. You could not live unless you believe in something. When you stop believing, you stop living. There are only two powers in the earth, good and evil. Either you believe in one or the other. The most perfect example we have of good is Jesus Christ. When you stop believing in Him, there is only evil left, like it or lump it. Naturally the evil powers oppose the good, and visa versa. Therefore the closer you live to God, the more the evil powers will fight against you. Look around and see who is the most persecuted religion on earth, and there you will find the closest to the good religion. There are many religions that follow after the majority, weather it is right or wrong. Even those who profess to believe in neither God nor Devil must believe in something, and that becomes their religion. Religion is something you can't get away from. Either you are becoming like God, or you are becoming like the Devil.

*with a farewell for now, and blessed be...*

It's important to keep in mind, of course, Ms. Hoffman, that the nature of this medium tends to amplify arguments and differences, while points of agreement tend to get scrolled off. This does tend to attract the more-contentious types, even if I think Victoria's right, and it also brings out into the open some prejudices that many don't otherwise consider, or speak.

It's always been a mystery to me what's said, that there's actually a great number more lurkers than posters on boards and blogs. People that tend to be intractable, or just plain paranoid, tend to insist on remaining that way, but maybe for others, it shows something in favor of that quieter, more profound and sublime spirituality that's so hard to really communicate in words, at least for most of us.

Thanks for your contributions. :)

We'll watch for you Ms. Hoffman- thanks for your contribution.
It can be a very disheartening experience on these boards.
I had a conversation with my dad the other day- he is a retired blue collar guy who doesnt have a computer and doesnt want one.
I told him about my experiences blogging (as a muslim minority) on these boards and told him that on the internet- prejudices and hatreds that people would be loathe to reveal in real society, the anonymity and disconnectedness with actual humanity make people feel free to express those hatreds and phobias unreservedly.

This is not a happy discovery- as i had previously imagined a much more benign and loving interior dialogue within folks than has been revealed here.

I will conitnue to have suspicion for the good intentions in people however.

coincidentally, i just made this comment on your garganuan george carlin thread-

"i am sincerely as dismayed by the ardent atheist fundamentalists as the vehement christian fundamentalists-

i really find no big difference in them-
perhaps that is why they argue with each other so much-
not the differences they see in each others- but the similarities-"

July 1, 2008 11:57 AM

Namaste Ms. Hoffman and i hope to see you here again.

Thanks for your essays and good luck in your future endeavors.