Comments (244)

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Observer says:
I did not hear you chiding those Muslims who for a reason or no reason enumerate a long list of 'crimes' committed by the West. At the top of that list are the Crusade Wars that happened over a thousand years ago, and which were a belated reaction to their behavior."

I didn't see them posting here.

Besides, are you saying that you should be no better than they?

MANILA, Philippines (CNS) -- A bishop in the southern Philippines reported receiving a letter threatening him with harm if he does not convert to Islam or pay "Islamic taxes."

Bishop Martin Jumoad of Isabela also told the Asian church news agency UCA News that he got text messages from Catholics saying they, too, had received threatening letters.

The bishop sent a copy of the letter July 19 to church-run Radio Veritas in Quezon City, northeast of Manila.

They said Bishop Jumoad should choose to convert to Islam or give "jizya," Islamic tax, to their group in exchange for protecting him in the "place of Muslims."

If he refuses to convert or pay, the letter threatened "force, weapons or war may be used" against him. It warned him not to feel safe even if he is "surrounded by soldiers" and cited bombings in various cities.

MANILA, Philippines (CNS) -- A bishop in the southern Philippines reported receiving a letter threatening him with harm if he does not convert to Islam or pay "Islamic taxes."

Bishop Martin Jumoad of Isabela also told the Asian church news agency UCA News that he got text messages from Catholics saying they, too, had received threatening letters.

The bishop sent a copy of the letter July 19 to church-run Radio Veritas in Quezon City, northeast of Manila.

They said Bishop Jumoad should choose to convert to Islam or give "jizya," Islamic tax, to their group in exchange for protecting him in the "place of Muslims."

If he refuses to convert or pay, the letter threatened "force, weapons or war may be used" against him. It warned him not to feel safe even if he is "surrounded by soldiers" and cited bombings in various cities.

This is madness. It's the christian god that gives humans a bad name.

Susan Smith wrote "Christians Give God a Bad Name".

The problem is your definition of the word Christian. First, not all who call themselves "Christians" are Christians. Catholicism and liberal Protestantism is NOT Christianity. For not knowing it, it means you yourself is NOT a Christian. And by that, using your own words, you give true Christianity a BAD name.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." (1 Corinthians 14:34)

Pam tells me:
“Also noticed that your list of Muslim incursions all took place 249-460 years prior to the retribution (Crusades). Isn't that just a bit long to carry a grudge?”

I did not hear you chiding those Muslims who for a reason or no reason enumerate a long list of “crimes” committed by the West. At the top of that list are the Crusade Wars that happened over a thousand years ago, and which were a belated reaction to their behavior.

"Perhaps you're familiar with a little episode of history called the Inquisition? That's just for a start. Consider too:

- The Crusades (and the related attacks on Jewish communities in Europe as the Crusaders made their way to the "Holy Land").

- Pogroms in Russia by Russian Orthodox Christians against their Jewish neighbors. Likewise in Poland, with Catholics beating up on their Jewish countrymen.

- More recently, the "troubles" in Northern Ireland and that business about "ethnic cleansing" in Bosnia.

Other examples are too numerous to mention. Catholics and Protestants were at each others' throats for hundreds of years following the establishment of the Anglican, Lutheran, and other Protestant churches.

Perhaps the perpetrators of these crimes did not run around citing verses of the New Testament as eplicit justification of their actions (though I think that some of them did just that), but the motivation was in all cases religious."

All that and you couldn't reference one NT quote or one deed by Jesus? I can do that all day long with Islam. Oh and the Crusades were in response to 400 years of Islamic aggression. What did you expect Europe to do? Sit back and take it?

A shame you cant differentiate between Christians doing bad things in contrast to Christianity and Muslims doing bad things in sync with Islam. But then thats what muliticulturalists do.

"As for Christians committing atrocities invoking God's name, who and what examples of Jesus and the NT are they using to justify their crimes?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Perhaps you're familiar with a little episode of history called the Inquisition? That's just for a start. Consider too:

- The Crusades (and the related attacks on Jewish communities in Europe as the Crusaders made their way to the "Holy Land").

- Pogroms in Russia by Russian Orthodox Christians against their Jewish neighbors. Likewise in Poland, with Catholics beating up on their Jewish countrymen.

- More recently, the "troubles" in Northern Ireland and that business about "ethnic cleansing" in Bosnia.

Other examples are too numerous to mention. Catholics and Protestants were at each others' throats for hundreds of years following the establishment of the Anglican, Lutheran, and other Protestant churches.

Perhaps the perpetrators of these crimes did not run around citing verses of the New Testament as eplicit justification of their actions (though I think that some of them did just that), but the motivation was in all cases religious.

"Communists and Nazis did not commit their atrocities in the name of godlessness but Christians and Muslims always invoke the name of their god when they commit theirs. Do you not understand the difference?"

No, they had no moral authority to guide them so they could do whatever they want with no fear of consequences. As for Christians committing atrocities invoking God's name, who and what examples of Jesus and the NT are they using to justify their crimes? I can easily do that for Islam but not Christianity. Surely YOU can see the difference.

Elric66 said:
"Godless people like Communists and Nazis sure havent given godless people a good name."

Elric66,

Communists and Nazis did not commit their atrocities in the name of godlessness but Christians and Muslims always invoke the name of their god when they commit theirs. Do you not understand the difference?

"Godless people like Communists and Nazis sure havent given godless people a good name."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So what's your point? That people can be just as brutal in the name of an ideology as they can in the name of a deity? Not much comfort in that, I'd say. Or much enlightenment. I'd guess that those being killed really didn't care much if their murderers were acting in the name of Stalin, Hitler, Allah, or Jesus--they ended up just as dead.

Belief in a supernatural "supreme being" does not guarantee respect for the rights of others. Nor does the absence of such a belief automatically imply a lack of such respect.

Godless people like Communists and Nazis sure havent given godless people a good name.

Actually, this article is mistitled. Christians give Christianity a bad name. But religion (in general) gives god a bad name. Religion has historically been--and is today--used as the justification for much of one group's inhumanity to another. If god exists, and if this is the purpose that he/she/it intended for religion...well, just leave me out of it.

Just for Baruch, Sarkozy being ripped apart

Do not doubt at any moment, Mr. President, that all your talent as media director will not be enough to avert the brewing crisis which you will have to face before the end of the year. Your Europe is a drifting vessel, windswept and beaten by the waves. It is the only region in the world to have deliberately dismantled its political and moral structures.

Without borders, gradually invaded by a mass immigration which is only at its beginning, economically ruined by the ultra-liberalism, socially impoverished, weakened demographically, without spirit and military strength. At best, it will fall under the American protectorate, at worse it will become a slave of the dhimmitude.

Out of the mouth comes either blessing or cursing.
Dear Susan, the next time you hear some one declare, "I'm a Christian" and you observe that it might be a prompting to set them off on an indignancy roll, then dear sister cut them off at the pass with an even higher declaration to say, "Praise the LORD!" "I'll be seeing YOU in Heaven then, right?" :)
In essence, change their focus and don't take it in to yourself only to bare the very same seeds of indignancy you deplore.
Move on, preach the Gospel, the Good News, amen.

Blessings in your Ministry in Christ,
Sister V.

"According to a recent report in the prestigious Time magazine, hundreds of new mosques are coming up in the West and most of the European cities now get to hear Azan (call for prayer) five times a day.In Rome a grand mosque is coming up at a whopping cost of $3 crore for which the land has been donated by the local government."

Mighty nice of Rome to donate land to its future overlords. Good dhimmis.

And you didnt answer if Europe's Judeao Christian heritage and Western culture was better than Islam and worth fighting for. Given the Islamicfication of Eurabia, Ill take it as a firm no.

"I am currently in Italy. I have spent time in Holland, Germany, and France as well. Where are you? Have you travelled and met different people and shared ideas with them? Or are you safely ensconced in the US, buying into the corporate media with it's skewed portrayal of the rest of the world?"

Spent 5 years in Eurabia in the 90's when stationed in Ramstein and Aviano. As for Islam, Ill go my their books and history, not judge Islam because Akmed down the road didnt blow up. Now thats naive. I dont even follow "corporate media". But if Muslims would stop blowing up around the world, they might have a better image. Rioting over a cartoon using legal jihad to arrest Geert Wilder does tarnish their image.

"Do you find that being rude works for you in your offline life? Or do you only hide behind the anonymity of the computer when putting out your rudeness?"

Ahhhhhh I see. When I bring up actual facts, you say Im rude and leave. Typical

ELRIC66 I am currently in Italy. I have spent time in Holland, Germany, and France as well. Where are you? Have you travelled and met different people and shared ideas with them? Or are you safely ensconced in the US, buying into the corporate media with it's skewed portrayal of the rest of the world?

Do you find that being rude works for you in your offline life? Or do you only hide behind the anonymity of the computer when putting out your rudeness?

I've said what I have to say...now I'm done. I see that you like to bait people into argument, but I'm just not interested. Bye.

"ELRIC66, with all due respect, I am in Europe and you don't know what you're talking about. For the most part Muslims, Christians, Jews and Pagans live side by side peacefully here. Of course there are exceptions. There are always exceptions."

Exceptions like car-b-ques, riots, bus bombings, train bombings, rapes, murders, no go areas and such.

"I get the sense, from your post addressed to me, that you either didn't read or didn't understand what I have already posted."

Oh I got it. Christianity and Islam 2 sides of the same coin. That and you never put anything in context between the religions.

"I also get the sense that you are here to agitate, not to engage in constructive discussion. It seems to me that you are more invested in being right than in learning and sharing ideas. Read my paper on narcissism. You might just see yourself in it."

I am for constructive discussions. I even quote Islam texts to back up my discussion, what do you add? Oh and I think Western culture with its Judeo Christian heritage is superior to Islam and worth fighting for. Do you?

Bahrain: "Shariah courts have dismissed many cases filed by women against their husbands for forced or unwilling sex ... because the religion allows a man to establish physical contact with his wife as per his wish"

"Rights activists have been pushing for the law for the past 20 years with no hope despite government’s support because of the objections of religious leaders who fear adverse judgments in Shariah courts."

But let Muslim communities establish Sharia law in the West, and, no, really, this time it will be different.

"Activists step up efforts to penalise ‘spousal rape’," from the Khaleej Times, July 20:

MANAMA — Rights activists in Bahrain have accelerated their efforts to penalise ‘spousal rape’ by launching a new campaign to promote the implementation of a family law to regulate judgments at Shariah Courts.

Presidents of the Women’s Union Mariam Al Ruwai told Khaleej Times yesterday that the law was the ultimate solution to protect women from many types of abuses and discriminations they faced at courts.

She said the penal code did not criminalise spousal rape for many religious and social misconceptions. “Out of shame and social criticism, many wives do not seek legal help and suffer in silence the humiliation because of their husbands' psychological problems, while others who wanted to fight for their dignity and physical safety were shattered when they come to know that the legal system cannot help them,” she explained.

Women’s rights activist Afaf Al Jamri highlighted the need for the implementation of a family law to bring justice to such women. She said many women had to tolerate physical violence at the hand of their husbands because of the wrong interpretation of Islamic regulations, mainly Hadith (sayings of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him). She stressed the need to focus on the Holy Quran as its verses could not be misinterpreted.

Hmm. "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." - Qur'an 2:223

Scholar and judge at the Shariah Courts Shaikh Mohsin Al Asfoor told Khaleej Times that men had a right to establish physical contact with their wives as the word ‘rape’ doesn't apply in relations between married couples. He said Shariah courts did not penalise men for forced sex, however they press abuse charges and not rape when one suffers physical injuries.

“Shariah courts have dismissed many cases filed by women against their husbands for forced or unwilling sex, especially by females who had signed the marriage contracts but were waiting for the formal marriage ceremony, because the religion allows a man to establish physical contact with his wife as per his wish,” Shaikh Al Asfoor explained.

Rights activists have been pushing for the law for the past 20 years with no hope despite government’s support because of the objections of religious leaders who fear adverse judgments in Shariah courts.

Baruch,

LOL.Right. Where in Eurabia?

" No terrorist strikes by Islam here in the Bahamas, today."

Wow, that must mean that Islam is peaceful or no more a danger than Christianity.

"Yes I'm fully aware of secular humanism, and I don't share your disgust of it, nor do I share your arrogant, in-your-face attitude concerning the premise of humanism--the "do unto others" that would be a good start for all of us."

I have nothing against securlaist per say except for their determination (not all of them) to get religion out of the public eye. That is what they did with Christianity in Europe and Islam is filling the void which for some reason, they seem not to care. They will though, very soon in fact.

"The Europeans have a challenge ahead, and one only can guess how much religious abuse they will put up with before some other atrocity happens there."

That would be Islamic abuse, no other religion there is bent on taking over Europe except Islam.

"Yes, I think the institution of Islam can be evil, but no more than the evils perpetrated in the name of God(s) throughout all of history."

Never can put it in the context of the teachings and their prophets can you? Why is that?

"You might consider that Christianity is not some "holding place" to keep out the evils of other religions."

All I know is when Europe pushed out Christianity, Islam was happy to fill it. If Europe clung on to its Judeo/Christian roots it would not have happened. When two cultures collide and one thinks all cultures are equal and the other thinks its better, who will win out? Well guess what? Multiculturalism was the trojan horse that Islam rode in on.

"Your repeated use of my name in your posts to make some point is at best probably boring to most of us, and at worst is reflecting poorly on you."

No it didnt. I pointed out how Islam and Christianity are very different philosophically and you think they are no different. Like I said a religion that mandates its followers be executed if they leave and have laws on how to govern and treat non believers different is all you need to know and which you totally ignored. Why didnt you even address that Steven? Because you know Im right. The truth and history is on my side.

Perhaps you should step outside your ivory tower and actually take a look at how Islam is affecting the world and actually study whats in the Qur'an, ahadiths, and siras. Its all there if you want to learn. But I guess if Islamic terrorists didnt attack the Bahamas today it means Islam is a religion of peace. Right Steven?

Night

ELRIC66, with all due respect, I am in Europe and you don't know what you're talking about. For the most part Muslims, Christians, Jews and Pagans live side by side peacefully here. Of course there are exceptions. There are always exceptions.

I get the sense, from your post addressed to me, that you either didn't read or didn't understand what I have already posted.

I also get the sense that you are here to agitate, not to engage in constructive discussion. It seems to me that you are more invested in being right than in learning and sharing ideas. Read my paper on narcissism. You might just see yourself in it.

Elric66:

Thanks for your most thoughtful replies. I'm sorry I've been away for the day, and for the most part have been enjoying it. No terrorist strikes by Islam here in the Bahamas, today.

I think I see a little better where you stand. One only needs to keep one's mouth shut to allow the other party to enlighten the conversation. And you have certainly been posting a lot!

I fully agree with you about Islam. What better example do we have of this institutional abuse, than 9/11, or almost daily news about Sudan, or (generally anywhere in the middle-east), or by authors such as Salman Rushdie or Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who have urged Americans to drop "political correctness" when it comes to these groups--and I fully agree. My head is really not buried in the sand, as you seem to imply, "...right, Steven?"

You might consider other compelling world history, to the atrocities committed by those "of the book" against Islam, against their neighboring communities, against generally anything outside of their narrow-minded, oftentimes religious-driven cultures. Would there be others here who might agree that Islam is the youngest of the religions "of the Book," and just hasn't had as much time to make its mark on history?

Yes I'm fully aware of secular humanism, and I don't share your disgust of it, nor do I share your arrogant, in-your-face attitude concerning the premise of humanism--the "do unto others" that would be a good start for all of us. I don't see it as a show of weakness, to be trampled by the evils were it not for the strength of public-square Christianity to "stay the waters" of the otherwise impending religious storm. And I don't see it as a "liberal" issue. Secular Humanism isn't some passive "turn the other cheek" weak position. I find it empowering, through and through. Especially in our country, where secularism can be the law of the land and establish clear boundaries to what is permissible, what is law. I just don't see my Texas neighbors cowering to the need to be politically correct in regard to someone insisting on their over-arching religious needs or rights.

The Europeans have a challenge ahead, and one only can guess how much religious abuse they will put up with before some other atrocity happens there. It would not hurt my feelings if all religions incorporated that golden rule "do unto others" philosophy, or otherwise simply disappear. Wishful thinking? May be.

Yes, I think the institution of Islam can be evil, but no more than the evils perpetrated in the name of God(s) throughout all of history. I'm not telling myself some lie. I'm certainly not "defending" Islam's atrocities. But neither do I separate them from the atrocities of Christianity. We had Christians burning witches during the time that there was a working model of the steam engine, the atmosphere of Jupiter was discovered to have a differential rotation, and paper money was being printed in the US. And sadly enough, Christians are still burning witches around the far reaches of the world. It's all there for the retelling. I couldn't make this stuff up.

This will be my last communication with you for the day. I've read enough to know what you're about, I think. You might consider that Christianity is not some "holding place" to keep out the evils of other religions. I've heard that before--"...just think what would happen to us if Christianity weren't there to protect us all..."--kind of nonsense. I think I get the gist of it.

Your repeated use of my name in your posts to make some point is at best probably boring to most of us, and at worst is reflecting poorly on you. As well, the sheer number of your posts also reflects something, I'm just trying to figure that one out. (17 and counting, so far?)

Good night and sweet dreams.

Nine face stoning death in Iran

At least eight women and one man are reported to have been sentenced to death by stoning in Iran.

The group, convicted of adultery and sex offences, could be executed at any time, lawyers defending them say.

The lawyers have called on the head of Iran's judiciary to prevent the sentences from being carried out.

The last officially reported stoning in Iran last year drew strong criticism from human rights groups and the European Union.

The eight women sentenced, whose ages range from 27 to 43, had convictions including prostitution, incest and adultery, Reuters news agency reported.

The man, a 50-year-old music teacher, was convicted of illegal sex with a student, reports said.

No difference at all Steven.

Yes, the Prophet of Allah Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) will descend at the end of time and judge among the people with justice, following the Law of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). He will break the crosses and kill the swine. HE shall put an end to the payment of the jizya. He will only accept Islam from the people. The People of the Book, the Jews and Christians, will all believe in him before his death, after he descends at the end of time. Allah has stated, "There is none of the People of the book but must believe in him (as only a Messenger of Allah) before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them." [an-Nisa, 4:159]

Bukhari9,83,17
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

(Sahih Bukhari 4.260)
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Baruch,

why am I not surprised you had to give moral equivalence between Islam and Christianity even though there isnt any. Apostasy and dhimmi laws are rooted in Islamic text and deeds by Mo-bomb-ed while the same cant be said with Christianity.

Its a very dangerous game to play and if you get your wish run Christianity out of the public arena something will replace it and that will be Islam. Thats what happened in Europe and I dont think any rational being can say that Europe is better off.

If you truly want to learn about Islam and what it really is, read any book by Robert Spencer. He uses only Islamic sources to educated his readers.

Knowledge is power and you will need it as sharia law creeps into the West. Unless of course you wouldnt mind Sharia law that is.

ELRIC66 asked me:
Baruch, What do you think of Dhimmi and Apostasy laws?

I think Islam, like the other Abrahamic religions, has more than one branch, with multiple interpretations of the respective scripture, I this case the Qur'an. Personally I do not subscribe to any of the Abrahamic religions as they are all essentially hierarchical, anthropomorphise divinity, and have all been used to exploit people and earth for political and economic gain for over a millennia.

My understanding of the status (or lack thereof) accorded women and non-Muslims leads me to believe that Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, includes some interpretations that are very harsh, at times brutal, and I do not agree with these practices. We see brutality in the history of Jews against non-Jews, Christians against non-Christians, and Muslims against non-Muslims. I do not support any of this.

I do not agree that woman and non-Muslims should be treated as they are under Sharia. I do not believe that gay and lesbian people should be discriminated against let alone killed, or any number of other fundamentalist interpretations of Sharia.

I see similar interpretations and treatment of women, non-believers and gay & lesbian people in Christianity. Modern Christians do not behead, but there are "Christians" who shoot, beat, and stomp on gay/lesbian/trans folk in the US, beat their wives into submission, and other such heinous practices. These things happen more frequently than the media reports.

I am not a scholar of Islam, though I have been educating myself some lately. The history of the Islam/Christian adversity goes back to the beginning of Islam some 1500 years ago. In this ongoing conflict no one is blameless, and no one is "all bad." It's not a black and white situation.

Pakistan: Court grants custody of Christian girls to Muslim kidnappers

Because they converted to Islam, you see. More on this story. "Pakistan: Court Grants Custody of Girls to Kidnappers," from Compass Direct News, July 18:

ISTANBUL, July 18 (Compass Direct News) – A Pakistani couple has appealed a court decision to award custody of their two daughters, 10 and 13, to the children’s alleged kidnappers. The court based its custody decision on the girls’ conversion to Islam.

Judge Main Naeem Sardar ruled Saturday (July 12) that Saba Masih, 13, and Aneela Masih, 10, had become Muslims, invalidating their Christian parents’ right to legal guardianship.

“He said that because the parents are Christians and because the girls told the court that they adopted Islam, their relationship has ceased,” lawyer Rashid Rehman of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) told Compass. Under a common interpretation of Islamic law, a Christian cannot have custody of a Muslim....

Yeah, no different Steven. Keep telling yourself that lie.

To the writer of this article, Lets examine your life and see if you imitate Christ.

You are pious, the statement "If one is a Christian, one is supposed to imitate the Christ. It says that in the Bible. Jesus talked to everyone, dismissed nobody, and got angry when people took advantage of each other. Remember his fit in the Temple when he overthrew the moneychangers?" shows that Christ had a balance and limit with those that disdained God by their actions, hence the anger Christ exhibited with the moneychangers.

Bottom line, Christians inmate Christ by having the same balance that Christ had, talk to all, dismiss no one, and have the right to be angry at those who "sin" against us, or,
(take advantage of others)

Your article is not worth the paper you wrote it on; get a new day job you are "terrible" as a writer.

I’ll be glad when David returns from vacation.

Just the fact that Islam has Dhimmi laws and Apostasy laws proves that Islam is very different than Christianity or any other religion.

"The institution of Islam is no better or worse than the institution of Christianity."

Really? Prove it. Not by feelings but by comparing the prophets of each respect religion and their books; Christianity the New Testment and Islam; The Qur'a, ahadiths and the Siras. Knock yourself out trying to compare the two because you cant.

You know why? Because when Christians do bad things it goes against the teachings of Jesus and the NT, when Muslims do, its in sync with the teachings of Mo and their books. For some odd reason, you multiculturalists are unable or unwilling to see that distinction. Why is that?

You secular humanists have no idea what Islam is all about, do you?

Elric66:

Thanks for your comment, although I doubt it has the effect on me that you'd hoped.

It makes me feel no different: The institution of Islam is no better or worse than the institution of Christianity.

Secular humanists have created a vacuum in Europe which Islam is filling. How does that make you feel Steven?

We are the Ummah should be what you worry about.

Susan Smith:
I appreciate the candor in your article. I wonder how many others of us hear "I'm a Christian!" if not daily, maybe weekly, or monthly, in our day-to-day lives. And I wonder how many of us get a surge of ill-feeling at the mention of it.

Because it's what's not said in that phrase that is the heart of the matter. What kind of person needs to make that announcement? What among the millions of things it could mean, does it mean? Under what circumstances does that need to become public knowledge? What response does such a person making this announcement seek to find?

I think you've hit upon it, the "do unto others" concept that has been present in cultures well before early Christianity. Secular humanists are forefront with this as a driving concept.

However...

Personally, it's not particularly the individuals who call themselves Christian that make it seem "ugly" to me; it's the institution, the authority, the collective mindset that bombards us from our early childhood and through a psychological drama that spares no avenue of advertisement. Over 2000 years this has been refined into a well-oiled machine.

What credibility should one give to a "Pope" who decries the evils of "materialism" and who warns the youth of the dangers of the "spiritual desert" but who wears the robes of kings and lives in a gold palace created by the taxes of the masses? How should we respond to the certainties and absolutes that are dictated from and by the for the institution?

"I am a Christian" can mean anything or nothing. "We are The Church" is much more dangerous.

Baruch,

What do you think of Dhimmi and Apostasy laws?

Faith is personal. Pushing one's beliefs on others is not a sign of faith, it's a sign of narcissism. I have known Christians who believed they knew what other people should believe. That is narcissism. Evangelicals who insist that they know what's best for others might do well to look in the mirror and focus on how they can grow and develop themselves rather than on how to force, cajole, persuade, terrorize, and oppress others into their religion.

I have also known Christians and non-Christians alike who treated others with respect no matter what belief system they engaged with. They were mature enough to understand that one's relationship with the divine is none of anyone else's business.

"Christians" who practice and promulgate hate and fear (quite contrary to the teachings of Jesus), who bully and manipulate those who believe differently, are, in my opinion, so afraid of the vastness and complexity of the universe that they hide in the illusory safety of simplistic "black & white" beliefs. That is also a sign of unresolved narcissism.

Whoever or whatever the divine actually is, it is certainly beyond the comprehension of the human mind. To limit "God" to human concepts seems silly to me. Fear of ambiguity, of paradox, of the unknown, is something to face and feel, but is not an excuse for hurting others.

The exploitation of religion or spirituality for political and/or economic ends is repugnant to me.

Religions that tell us that we are children subservient to a parent-like God don't make sense to me. A good parent wants their children to grow up, not to stay undeveloped. One can be a mature adult engaged in critical thinking, with compassion, and still have as part of one's character the wonder and loving nature of a child.

Here is a link to a paper I wrote recently. Readers may find it to be of interest.

http://www.healingmagic.org/articles/Narcissism.pdf

" Elric66:

"""No, secularists aren't 'ok with Muslims executing homosexuals.'"

"Really? I guess I cant hear them over the deafening roar over Christians viewing homosexuality as a sin."

Funny you should say that. That's exactly my sentiment, and it's not even your head on the block, is it?

Oh and today in the anniversary of Spain falling to the caliphate. July 19th 711; almost 400 years before the first Crusades were called. Ohh and the Islamic world wants al-Andalus back.

"No, secularists aren't 'ok with Muslims executing homosexuals.'"

Really? I guess I cant hear them over the deafening roar over Christians viewing homosexuality as a sin.

"point to some vague idea of a 'Muslim nation"

Muslims executing homosexuals is a "vague idea"?

"Its really mindbogglingly."

Sorry, I'll try and make it simple:

" These secularists cant stand it that Christians view homosexuality as a sin but are ok with Muslims executing homosexuals. "

No, secularists aren't 'ok with Muslims executing homosexuals.' We're just unimpressed by people who, when we call out for equal rights, point to some vague idea of a 'Muslim nation' and say, 'Oh, yeah? Be glad we don't do worse to you.'

Tater,

Its really mindbogglingly. These secularists cant stand it that Christians view homosexuality as a sin but are ok with Muslims executing homosexuals. They call Christians "arrogant" for calling themselves Christians but dont mind Islam being so arrogant it executes Muslims for leaving Islam.