Comments (26)

Carrie, the difference is that evolution is fact, creationism is myth.

A Muslim father catches his son masturbating. He says, "Don't do that my son, or Allah will strike you blind." The child says, "Abu, I'm over here."

A Muslim father catches his son masturbating. He says, "Don't do that my son, or Allah will strike you blind." The child says, "Abu, I'm over here."

RCG, "People like to use their faith as a blunt object, swinging chapter-and-verse with wild abandon. The Net allows me to find an appropriate counter-verse in short order, and mostly for my own amusement."

Funny that you would would mention that because that is exactly what yoou are doing.

So keep it to youself, end of story.

"the attempt to force religion on children in the guise of "creationism."

But Amy- right now evolution is forced on children with no other theories. The true beauty of the internet search engines is any schoolchild can search on their own- weigh the many arguments, form independent opinions, and decide their own viewpoint as individuals.

The internet has been a boon for minorities, including us detested atheists. We can find each other through online groups, though so far I haven't joined facebook. I've met other atheists through infidels.org's messageboard, meetup, and chatrooms. I use google news to keep up on issues of interest to us, such as the attempt to force religion on children in the guise of "creationism."

ANONYMOUS described natural human conflict, natural disease progression and natural geologic instability thusly:
"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places

Good job.

If I need to know a trivial fact quick - say a definition for a word I've never heard before, today's weather, what hardware store is closest - I look it up on the internet in one, maybe two places. If I need to know something sorta important, I look it up on the net several places, check the library, ask a few of the 'wise elders' in my social network. If something I need to know is really really important, the net, maybe two different libraries - digital libraries like Lexis-Nexus count - University libraries, and maybe even travel to the National Archives/Library of Congress for it. It's all about priority of how I intend to use that knowledge and how much depth it needs to have. Matters of faith - I can look up several sources for witchy/Pagany knowledge that have been lovingly digitized, historial/solar-calender contexts... like PAGANPLACE, it has opened up great resources for exploration of my own faith.

As far as things like Hoaxbuster, etc: I just don't care. Much of what is ranted and counter-ranted about doesn't apply to how I keep my garden healthy, keep my day job functioning (yay professional theatre) and forward my artistic career. People like to use their faith as a blunt object, swinging chapter-and-verse with wild abandon. The Net allows me to find an appropriate counter-verse in short order, and mostly for my own amusement.

Think for yourself. Gather your data from the widest variety of sources. Don't take yourself too seriously, because you can never over-estimate how many people are laughing at you.

Cheers. Wish me luck - we open tomorrow night. :}

Thanks to the internet, I was able to read a fascinating article from Cuba pointing out the parallels between Obama's nomination and Robert F. Kennedy's.

Without the internet, I would not have had access to this in Cheney's Jesuslandia. Information is what toppled Communism and is what will topple the current hateful American theocracy as well.

Addressing, "If information is too easy to a[c]quire and provide, will we ever give it the same higher level of scrutiny we once did?"

We must resist the possibility that facts will diminish faith. The best way to do that is to make information difficult "to a[c]quire and provide"?

The struggle is between faith and knowledge. Faith relies totally on assumed positives that are decreed by experts to be knowledge based upon the inability of the knowledgeable to prove negatives. I see how being able to Google it and find out about it is a handicap but not for the knowledgeable and those wishing to become knowledgeable.

We can only pity modern Hitler and Stalin types with their inability to control the news the way it was in those highly scrutinized societies. Their trains all ran on time though so nobody's imperfect. Who else, what other types of people needs to control the news? I can hear them mumbling &$U#&$ Internet to themselves.

Dear Jim,

Since this article is about Google, I shall use it here:

God didn't stop and restart time to celebrate his son's birthday 2008 years ago. Here is wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AD

"During the first six centuries of what would come to be known as the Christian era, European countries used various systems to count years. Systems in use included consular dating, imperial regnal year dating, and Creation dating. "

[so for several hundred years after Jesus, no one used him as the measuring stick. but maybe god didn't like the people of those centuries more than he likes us today...]

"...emperors through Constans II (641–668) were appointed consuls on the first January 1 after their accession. All of these emperors, except Justinian, used imperial postconsular years for all of the years of their reign alongside their regnal years."

[so that's why the calendar year begins on January 1st - since its the day mortal emperors assumed power - but i don't remember god being a very big fan of emperors usually. maybe this time he owed them one]

"The Anno Domini system was devised by a monk named Dionysius Exiguus in Rome in 525. In his Easter table Dionysius equates the year AD 532 with the regnal year 284 of Emperor Diocletian. In Argumentum I attached to this table he equates the year AD 525 with the consulate of Probus Junior. He thus implies that Jesus' Incarnation occurred 525 years earlier, without stating the specific year during which his birth or conception occurred."

[so because he didn't know Jesus' specific birth year, he just kinda assumed it. but hey, maybe god was guiding his assumptions...]

"However, nowhere in his exposition of his table does Dionysius relate his epoch to any other dating system, whether consulate, Olympiad, year of the world, or regnal year of Augustus; much less does he explain or justify the underlying date."
Blackburn & Holford-Strevens briefly present arguments for 2 BC, 1 BC, or AD 1 as the year Dionysius intended for the Nativity or Incarnation.

Among the sources of confusion are:

-In modern times Incarnation is synonymous with conception, but some ancient writers, such as Bede, considered Incarnation to be synonymous with the Nativity
-The civil, or consular year began on January 1 but the Diocletian year began on August 29
-There were inaccuracies in the list of consuls
-There were confused summations of emperors' regnal years"

[so basically, if God is responsible for our current calendar, it must not be that important to him since a bunch of inaccuracies were made. And all this just took me a few seconds to look up, thanks to the internet. But I think the gist of this WaPo article is to ponder not just the ease of access to vast amounts of information, but how we interpret and use it as well. If information is too easy to aquire and provide, will we ever give it the same higher level of scrutiny we once did?]

Jim- ever heard this:

"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places."

God is God and everything else is everything else. God in some form has meaning to millions possibly billions. Google, Yahoo, the internet are meaningless entities that mean nothing. Two thousand years ago God stopped and restarted time in honor of his son’s death. Calendars, clocks, money, credit etc all are based on time that restarted 2008 years ago.

Millions of us believe God created heaven and earth without feeling the need to explain how. Heaven and earth exists and nothing man can do can change that fact. Man will never figure out how it was done. Science has gone completely bonkers trying to explain creation, it’s funny.

Man has a thirst to venture into the future or return to the past. Guess what? We live in the present, past and future everyday of our lives. God made the day in such a way that today is today, yesterday and tomorrow. If you don’t believe me, when you wake up tomorrow try to convince someone that tomorrow is today and that today is yesterday. And we waste our time worrying about the effect of the internet on people, it’s funny.

With the complexity of God’s creation wrapped around simplicity of it’s affect, why are we worried about Google or Yahoo or anything else? We change nothing. Everything that is was and everything that will be was. God set the rules and like it or not we must live by those rules. END THE WAR IN IRAQ.

I'm with anonymous. Want a quick answer then Google. And while you're at it notice there are conflicting answers to every "faith" question telling us the answers we've been accepting as truth likely aren't.

NW.WP didn't start and now support this blog as a public service. It's a commercial enterprise calculated to make money for them, (like ministries). This essay is hinting at the "stinking" possibility it's a loser.

But people are making billions with Internet enterprises. Those who are raking in the money have what people want. Google provides facts. Facts is where the money can be made. There is no money in telling the truth, that we know. Maybe selling the "faith" lie is not as lucrative as it looks?

Television made a big dent in the printed news media. Is the Internet about to terminate the printed news journals altogether? I've stopped watching the news and simply go to the channel's blog where I can browse the news and not miss something because the phone rang. It's good for me and for them too because they sell a lot of advertising on their blog. Maybe NW.WP should sell more advertising here. Hoax buster didn't try to buy space and got refused? The pope never questions the source of the money, (Aztec and Inca gold -Google it) only questions why when the money is short.

All issues are economic. But where is the easy money these days? Simple. Google it.

Well...I thank God for Google.

It aids me in putting the pieces of my mental puzzles together.

I am fond of the Neoplatonist school of philosophy and with the aid of google, in a matter of minutes, I can compare and contrast Iamblichus, Suhrawardi, Plotinus and Porphory...without drowning amidst a pile of expensive philosophy books that I can't afford anyway. It saves me time and money and lets me go deeper intellectually and in reflection than wasting time trying to find that relevant statement i'm searching for in a 500 page volume. And oh...so many delights at the fingertips from the Zohar to the Emerald tablet to the Rasa'il of the Ikhwan Al-Safa.

I still love the smell, texture, weight and vibes of a good book...but sometimes you just need an answer...now!

Dear Concerned

I applaud your kindness and concern for Paganplace but I found her comments to be quite profound and meaningful, not mindless rants.

Maybe you should reread her posts. They seem pretty lucid to me.

Well, Bgone, et al, you've said a lot of things here.... Pick any example you like,

"Examples are in order. What specifically are you talking about? You can read?"

If I can't, I suppose it's not me that's 'ranting.' Not that I'm unwilling to.

Let's say that in world so inundated with words, sooner or later, someone's bound to figure out what the things are *for.*

Not neccesarily the *easy* way, if experience judges. :)

Paganplace:

Examples are in order. What specifically are you talking about? You can read?

I said that hoax buster gave a reason for the Reformation and that Gutenberg's movable type printing press was also a likely cause. I have said elsewhere, (you must be talking about that) that all sacred scriptures not just the 72 selected from a set of over 850 they had to pick and choose from clearly say the supernatural being in the burning bush was the fallen angel Lucifer, (a myth itself). And I used to, before being censored, (doesn't work for there are millions of blogs) direct folks to hoax buster for the reading of those scriptures giving them an opportunity to get educated, a big plus for the Internet. I never said I believed it. The assumed being in the burning bush is what Jeremiah Wright and all the others call God, a must for presidential candidates to do likewise. And people wonder why things are in such a mess.

What I said below is that the Internet stops the censoring of such readings, for easy example hoax buster. Anyone with any brains knows that worshiping the Devil and calling Him God is the most grievous of sins, no matter if there is or is not one or more Gods. With that obvious truth combined with censorship by those who profit from doing that, selling Devil as God to a gullible public I just have a good chuckle.

I don't have a problem. I belong to the class of people "waiting for God." This is my entertainment while I wait. NW.WP are leading me astray causing me to idle my life away on the Internet, no problem. They're far from alone. What's your problem?

Paganplace, Are you drunk or high. I'm concerned about your excessive and irrational postings of late. On Dr. Manoj Jain's thread you were out of control. I'll ask again:

"Paganplace, fourteen out of seventeen posts thus far is yours. Having a monologue or what?"

Its time to get some help.

Pagan Place-

You are kinda raving about "my religion" (you don't know if I have religion) and "you love to blame pagans" (No. I don't) and "insulting muslims" (I posted an article as an example of "no go" areas in Britain). You are reading way to much into a single post.

I am amazed that you think a pagan can simply use "self control" to break an addiction. Addiction is a "no religious preference" disease.

"Wine, for many religions, is a sacrament, but alcohol can also be an addiction. So can sex. Bill Clinton’s behavior seems purely addictive to me."

Do you remember who wrote this on this forum?

And have you heard of the "Pagans in Recovery" help group. It may be something helpful to you.

http://pagansinrecovery.com/

But, hey, 'Just Thinking,' there'ssome advantages to the Net culture... For one, we don't see quite so much of what we saw when media consolidation started homogenizing the mass media in the Eighties... the notion girls just go gaga over sociopathic musclebound 'heroes' blowing interchangeable bad guys away, ..much sold by the media, but really just a story guys tell each other while competing for 'access to mates' and wondering why we went for yer Harrison Fords, if anyone.

Actually, I think a lot of Fundie men who somehow couldn't get sculpted with steroids back then, lament some 'decline of a culture' that never even *existed,* but was *sold to them as kids and which they, the rich, now feel entitled to buy.*

But it was never real.

If there'd been an Internet in the 80's, you'd have heard the girls snerking derisively.

But it seems you bought it anyway.

Canonized Reagan, didn't you?

Man didn't know or care where he *was* half the time he opened his mouth.

Note of caution on the UK, btw.

They still kind of value that characteristic of a functioning brain, should you want to call Muslims 'immoral' with your porn fixation or anything.

Capiche?

" just thinking:

The dark side of the internet are the blackhole addictions lurking there- porn, role-playing games (ie:second life), gambling, shopping..-- tempting as they always were and now accessible from the privacy of your home 24/7/365."

See, there's a revolution already... You can get Islamophobic as you demonstrated below, or develop some self-discipline if you want to call these things 'bad,' instead of trying to *control* them so you don't have to *develop* such self-discipline...

Seriously, 'Just Thinking,' you're *just not thiking* here.

Your whole religion sometimes seems based on promising and advertising, (endlessly) joys of 'Forbidden fruit.'

If you ascribe such 'Temptational power' to that which about looking at a breast or the promise of 'Something for nothing' *your own people just keep eating up in the unchecked capitalism you keep demanding as holy,*

Don't you think that these are connected?

You love to blame Pagans for what you yourselves do, but.....

What if controlling anyone seeing the human body is off the table?

What if controlling anyone laying stakes on this or that is *off the table.*

Could be you might have to stop trying to 'damn' others and *control yourselves, sportoes.*

And ain't that a switch.

But, really.

People will still 'buy' the idea that a decadent world is at fault, but... from where I'm sitting, they're always blaming others for what they can't 'helplessly' stop doing, themselves.

No matter how much they bluster.

Discernment.

It's a faculty 'my people' much aspire to develop. And exercise. And first and foremost and always, *apply.*

Come on, man. Conservative Christians wail like porn invented sex, and wail if someone says 'We shouldn't advertise Hummers in an energy crisis,' (that's not the sense of the word that don't generate too many greenhouse gases, btw. I mean the impressive-but-somehow-I-figure0underimplemented offroad vehicles.)

People who think there's a devilish problem with 'Pron' tend to also figure my bare arms, on the rare occasion the UV index is low enough, are trying to 'seduce' them, which leads to nasty things, mostly involving, 'She had it coming,' one way or another, only one of which was 'theological.'

Take it from a Pagan girl. It's entirely possible to see a naked female and not helplessly behave in an unseemly fashion, 'Just thinking.'

You make it so. And you like it that way.

But it goes away surprisingly quick if you don't want to react that way.

Take it from a Pagan.

Or if you don't believe me, a devoutly Christian Finn. (they do sauna, which is more than a place for jock boys to snap towels in Finland, it turns out)

This is about what *you* choose, 'Just thinking.'

I'm a big fan of thinking, but sometimes you gotta,

'Just look.'

Before yougo insulting Muslims with yer usual ramadoola.

Different metaphors, Bgone. In a desert, you often might in fact want to analyze scant information ....to death, we still say this... Makes sense in a way: there is Right, and there is Wrong. Small deviations could croak everyone.

And defying authority tends to the extreme...

This has been extended to words. In our absolutist cerebral culture.

But we don't live in a desert. Not of words, nor decent ideas, nor water, nor even 'place.'

One thing we say a in the Pagan community a lot, or at least I do... "Cowans got no means to cope with abundance, "

The printing press may have loosed words upon the commons...

In a way that certain folks could not understand or cope with... People *still* can't cope with it, they think if they can quote a Bible verse to justify the basest thing, it'll work out, even if it *doesn't.*

Ever.

Someone set written words up as holy, and then they got so powerful they burst the corral...

That has been a lesson for a number of lifetimes, I should think...

Here's a new one.

We're about to learn, hopefully not too painfully, what words, even and especially 'holy' ones, *can't do.*

As usual, we're gonna have to make it up with humanity and ingenuity.

And not getting too slack on the physical end. That'll bite you.

The dark side of the internet are the blackhole addictions lurking there- porn, role-playing games (ie:second life), gambling, shopping..-- tempting as they always were and now accessible from the privacy of your home 24/7/365.

The search engines are learning tools. We no longer need journalists and reporters to interpret and withhold or manipulate the news. We can search and think for ourselves.

Take the story of religious interest below and make of it what you will:

"Two American preachers in Birmingham, UK, were warned to leave for allegedly distributing Christian leaflets to Muslims. The preachers, 48-year-old Arthur Cunningham and 65-year-old Pastor Joseph Abraham, were talking to four Muslim youths when a "police community support officer" (PCSO) approached them.

According to the Daily Mail, the PCSO was Naeem Naguthney. PCSOs are auxiliary members of the police force who have less training and status than a police constable.

According to Cunningham, Naguthney "realized we were Americans and then started ranting at us about George Bush and American foreign policy. He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. He said he was going to take us to the police station."

Cunningham also stated: "I told him that this had nothing to do with the gospel we were preaching but he became very aggressive. He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. He said we were committing a hate crime by telling the youths to leave Islam and said that he was going to take us to the police station."

Cunningham and Pastor Abraham, who has a ministry at Alum Rock, have lived in Britain in recent years. Abraham, originally from Egypt, said: "He told us we were trying to convert Muslims to Christianity and that that was a hate crime. I couldn't believe this was happening in Britain. The Bishop of Rochester was criticized by the Church of England recently when he said there were no-go areas in Britain but he was right; there are certainly no-go areas for Christians who want to share the gospel."

According to the two preachers, they were told by Naguthney: "You have been warned. If you come back here and get beaten up, well you have been warned."

The two preachers are now suing the West Midlands Police for what happened to them back in February. They claim that they have the right to religious expression under Britain's Human Rights legislation. Moreover, they are in demand of an apology and compensation from West Midlands Police Force. The men are supported by the Christian Institute, an organization which supports Christian rights.

Melanie Phillips wrote of this case in the Spectator: "When the Bishop of Rochester recently warned that Britain was developing Muslim no-go areas, he was denounced the length and breadth of the establishment, with government ministers and bishops falling over each other to declare that they did not recognize the country he was describing. 'There are no no-go areas in Britain' they all declared. Well, here it is, in glowing Technicolor and flashing lights, in Alum Rock Birmingham."

West Midlands Police has allegedly overstepped the mark on deciding the official definition for a "hate crime." On January 15, 2007, Channel 4 TV aired a documentary by Hardcash productions featuring British mosques that incited hatred. While West Midlands Police claimed there was no evidence to prosecute preachers who called for the killing of homosexuals, they tried to prosecute the documentary makers and Channel 4 for "inciting racial hatred." West Midlands Police was countersued for libel, and had to pay more than $192,000 in damages and costs.

The Muslim PCSO who reproved the Christian preachers had only been employed for a year, and had been previously unemployed for eight months. His brother, Nadeem Naguthney, said: "Naeem is a community man, that is why he joined the police."

Even though he has brought further controversy to the police force and has faced an investigation, he Naeem Naguthney not been dismissed. A spokeswoman for West Midlands Police said: "The investigation concluded that the PCSO acted with the best of intentions when he intervened to diffuse a heated argument between two groups of men." She noted that Naguthney has been offered "guidance around what constitutes a hate crime as well as his communication style."

Recently, Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester, caused a stir when he asserted that parts of Britain are becoming "no-go areas" for non-Muslims. The bishop received death threats from Muslims for making his claims, while members of Britain's Muslim establishment - along with some non-Muslim establishment figures - claimed that "no-go areas" for non-Muslims do not in fact exist.

Inayat Bunglawala is a prominent member of the Muslim Council of Britain who has previously described Osama bin Laden as a "freedom-fighter," and has written that Omar Abdel-Rahman is "courageous." Bunglawala condemned the Bishop of Rochester's comments about no-go areas as "stirring up racial hatred." It remains to be seen how Bunglawala officially responds to the incident involving the two Christian preachers in Birmingham."

As for the 'Hoaxbuster' things you quote, Bgone, they haven't seemed to make you any better-informed, just, 'Differently.' If I can make an observation, you still ascribe power to the same things and rationales, just pick a different sort of 'side' within them.'

You seem to be somewhere between 'Believe Everything your Read' and 'Don't believe everything your read, even if I say so.'

Especially when things are looking confusing, everyone wants to *orient.* It's part of our nature as humans, You seem to have absorbed the idea that it's possible to make 'Holy Words' appear to be true when they are taken to point in a direction you would like. What you don't seem to have understood is that actually, they're so highly polished and worn down and put in so many inappropriate places as 'landmarks, that they can appear to 'Point The Way' whichever direction you stand from and wherever you would like to go.

There's just as much 'hoax' in what *you* say as in what any other Bible-believer says, and, I think, just as much desire to see the world set to rights.

Words or 'truth' are no longer a flaming pillar in a desperate desert.

Leaves in a jungle, man. Best learn about the air.

*coming back from a few days spent with physical things and physical books.*

"The dark side of the web is obvious to me--the hours, days, weeks of fruitless forgotten time that we (I) have spent flicking through the most random pages, absorbing hollow information and left in the end without any feeling of accomplishment or edification."

Ever consider who's *not* here? Ever?

It's a concern, yes, but:

"So is the web rewiring our being into that of superficial non-reflective drones?"

Xerox actually used to be the metaphor for that. :)

In ome subcultures, anyway.

"So does the Internet's democratization of information portend a revolution of faith like Gutenberg's? So far, I'd say no."

So far, you're still comparing the numbers in any online group to the New York Times Bestseller List, or Neilsen Ratings, if I can gauge the scale from here.

But the revolution has already happened, really...

Toldya it wouldn't be televised. :) That actually may be television's biggest problem right now, actually.

There *really is* some freedom in this. It *looks* a mess cause most folks using it never knew this kind of freedom till they figured out they could say whatever idiotic thing they wanted and not suffer for it.

To those of us who've suffered in isolation and under perceptions we're alone against the power of physical and local social, and even broadcast-tower force...

We know we aren't, now.

Cut all the lines you want, that ain't going away soon.

Certainly been a revolution in *my* faith... Wacked-out self-desribed 'occultists' that a lot of Pagans used to have to hang with just cause they made noise are finding themselves increasingly-irrelevant in my faith.

The *books* you can buy are still about 'casting spells,' a lot of em. The Old Religion? All manner of different. Even the *concept* of 'network,' however natural it may be to our construction, is now everywhere.

Like a book, it's no longer a notion of something a man or family or government or state religion can own or control... For anyone.

The downside is the *noise* among certain more-deterministic worldviews that divide society, right on down to the family level, amonst themselves, cause all this communication just don't fit with the notion there's only one kind of man, one kind of woman, and the rest is damnation or comedy...

World's changed. It'll still be changed if we all unplug right this minute. (I'm therefore not entirely against that idea. :) )

It's all over, but the shouting, which we're presently engaged in.

That, and what we do with it.

We can do better than shout. Really. Or I wouldn't be here. When I'm not doing something physical. :)

Actually, the revolution al

Gutenberg's movable type printing press likely spawned the Reformation. To understand how that worked one must first realize people were relying on priests for their knowledge of God and especially God's law that was the law of the land at the time. The abundance of cheap Bibles made it possible for anyone to know God's law and quickly realize God's law ala the Bible is about as clear as mud. The Vatican lost control of information and in turn the people, (some of the suckers wised up but not completely).

Many before have said the Bible was as phony as a three dollar bill. That information has been controlled, (by a FREE Gutenberg movable type printing press) under the control of those who did not put the truth to the Bible but rather capitalized on it's lack of clarity. The Internet bypasses Gutenberg's movable type printing press making that information and much other "controlled information" available to anyone who wishes to "laze their lives away" surfing the net. Evidently that's an uncomfortably large number for those who "can't take the truth."

Yes, the establishment always sees anything that threatens their strangle hold on populations to be evil. There's little else to be said except notice how true that statement is. And, give an example of how evil, (wink-wink) the Internet truly is.

Does the Internet and the information now available to all have anything to do with the lack of "faith and values" in the present race for the white house? That's a very complex question going well beyond the simple notion that the Bible is God's word or even that the Bible is the word of Devil. Even at the time Gutenberg's movable type printing press did it's magic there were other earth shattering events, like as the hoax buster points out, proof positive the earth is round and not flat eliminating the possibility of the dead going down to a world below the earth, the Netherworld and hell being at the bottom of everything, (round earth messed up dogma).

Reckon how many so far have used the hoax buster web site as an example of evil? "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.." so surf the web and get educated is what I say. Those "faith" sites not doing so good? Hoax buster is doing fine so I understand in spite of many establishment catering blogs censoring URLs to it. Everyone here already knows about it and has their copy -just click the old print icon I always say and study it at your leisure.

The eternal struggle is between faith and knowledge. The Internet levels the playing field a little more just like Gutenberg's movable type printing press. Naturally, faith wants to hold it's censor's edge. It's too late now for the Internet is here.