Campaigns and God's Plan(s)

Wouldn't we all feel better if politicians just stopped mixing religion into politics? Why should they, or we, feel better that they're willing to play around with that explosive mix?

"The problem is politics is about building consensus and creating a shared identity behind a candidate."
No truer words have ever been written. The problem here is two fold. First, the pulpit has sacrificed it's calling. By turning to the popular criticism's of the events of the day, it has become entrapped in the snares of the very evil it purports to deliver us from. Righteous indignation and a public judgment should have no part in anything God would have us be. God knows we're sinners. Why would we believe we might be anything else? Our churchs need to be concentrating their efforts on the positive parts of our community and helping us to make our own choices on what's right and wrong. In that, we can find room for our personal salvations, and in that our community can prosper. Anything else,is nothing more then the cultism that has spawned the labled "terrorism" we fear today. And in reality, isn't all this hype nothing more then media generated social fear-mongering in the first place? Second, our media has to return to it's first and primary responsibility, to "Report the NEWS". Today, the lines between "whats happened" and "the reason behind whats happened" have became undefineable. In some cases the propaganda we're being fed is construed as more important "news" then the "news" itself. I might state, that while politicians may have a missplaced agenda to create a social momentum, the media's culpability is far more devious and impacting because their agenda is nothing more sensationalism, and attracting marketshare. In truth thats why the pulpit has become what it is.

.

It is sad that too many people actually vote for a poltician merely because he says the Bible is his favorite book, God is his "higher" father, etc etc to "appear" the godly Christian politician.

The legacy of George Bush should demonstrate how believing such HYPOCRITES can be DISASTROUS for the country!

Power does this -- to politicians and religious leaders alike. Power and religion are a BAD combination.

"This country seems to have a functioning don't ask, don't tell approach to all of our conflicting ideas of what God's plan might be."

The solution is to not have beliefs about plans of gods in the first place, or at least to leave out such beliefs entirely in public policy discussions. If a policy proposal has no secular argument for it, simply a claim about the wills of gods, then the proposal has no place in the discussion.

Wish we would see more of this type of insightful columns and reader's comments. It surely gave a great comfort seeing that we haven't stopped evolving.

Actually religion and politics are the same thing, both belongs to the age old traditional approach about how to remain in power by exploiting people's weakness and deriving power from their ignorance while keeping them suppressed (I prefer to call those leader who want to sincerely fix problems as just "leaders"). The pristine tactics of religion is generate a more powerful imposing figure and then become the agent of that figure to make fool out of people, while in politics tactics vary but the goal is same - to gain power using a larger variety of tactics. However a direct hotline to influential figures in society does have similar effect to increase one's own power.

Having said that I will perhaps start believing in "God", if that change comes in Washington, which is being hoped for. Perhaps the entire globe might become a believer, because only with that change, those outside will have a breathing space that they wont turn out to be the next middle east.

"But don't all religious people think major world events are part of God's plan? "

*raising hand.* Err, no? :)

Not all of us worship a human-like authoritarian 'planner,' as all that's in the world.

Few of us, I think, of any belief, are comfortable with politicians deciding they *know* any such 'plan' and trying to bring it about, especially when said 'plan' seems to involve assaulting Babylon and getting the temple of Jerusalem rebuilt in order to bring about the end of the world in which few will be saved and the Jews'll fall directly into some Hell.

Let's not forget that Bush, though he's backed off from things like calling Iraq a 'Crusade' and saying 'God tells me this'll work,' ...thinks everything he's done was toward bringing about some 'God's Plan.'

Gods can take care of themselves. We're the ones that need a *plan.* Not some self-serving interpretation of 'Prophecy.'

The Soviets had one good idea. They put religious fanatics in mental wards.

People aren't really looking for a Christian candidate. They want a candidate who belongs to the same label social club they do. The right wing infiltration of the evangelicals has turned them into more of a political weapon than a group who reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ. They willingly go along with state executions, invading sovereign nations who pose no threat, and support a party who protects and defends the US torturing other human beings. Why would anyone seeking a spiritual life join up with this band of semi-satanists? Evangelism? HA!
Their ministers make money like CEO's and when the money came in, the real word of God was thrown out the window. Now they preach that it is ok to basque in wealth as it is a gift from God. If your neighbor is suffering it is probably because they are a sinner and God is punishing them. They throw their marriages away when they meet someone who "is more compatible" and justify this by saying God led them to their real soulmate after their error in judgment the first, or second, or third time around. But they will show up to protest if they think two gay people want to tie the knot...because marriage is sacred.
Never before has their been a time when more people were looking for truth and never a time when it was less accessible. But this is really about politics isn't it? Off topic again. *sigh*

If it wasn't God's plan then who's plan was it? Those who believe things "just happen" are already at the brink of evolutionary heresy. If it happens then somebody planned it. All the confusion comes from faith in who planned it.

There's just one way out of this mess. We'll have but one church that speaks with one voice and all the candidates must promise to do as directed by it's leader, pope, Dalai Lama, Pat Robertson, etc or be burned at the stake before the election.

Never forget, free elections are all it takes to have democracy. John Hagee was elected somewhere in Texas but Jeremiah Wright is a free lancer? Thank God they have, "sold all their earthly possessions and given all to the poor."

Maybe the government should get as deeply involved in religion as religion has gotten in government? I mean, isn't it about time the law forced preachers to do what the Bible says? Jesus threw the money changers out of God's house and so should the government. But then God's house would be without ministers?

Reading Ms. Hoffman's editorial, I am reminded of the fact that many of our serious geopolitical problems are tied to religious extremism, whether Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Isn't there a lesson here?

God was never a very good planner. This god also does not listen to prayer , cure illnesses, protect children, or any of the other good stuff that has been attributed to god.

One more "we must all love each other" from some religious leader and I will barf.

We must lead ourselves individually out of the wilderness, put down our crystal balls, amulets, crosses and other religious symbols, and start thinking empathically.

Michael Clark: Unfortunately, to a significant part of the electorate, a candidate's religion matters.

Also, in this case, neither McCain nor Obama did much to bring their respective paster issues into the limelight.

How about some forgotten memories on Memorial Day...

Who said this?

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Hint, he also made this statment:

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities"

The Fourth Estate seems to relish on its yellow journalism with tripe and cannon fodder; the Oligarchy not withstanding but culpable.

If what Hitler did was GOD's plan and nothing happens without him knowing about it, then we all be acting like sheep, why bother think? we can't do anything without him telling us what to do, right? That is why George Bush asked our soldiers to go to Iraq and get more than 4000 of our boys and girls killed there, not to count the thousands of Iraqis, GOD told him to do so, RIGHT?
ok , i'm done here, GOD just called me and told me to go out, the grass is getting too tall.

Glenn Smith: - those who already know cannot learn.

Richard McDonough: - just thinking about the Bible being a proved hoax makes the pope's head hurt.

Every candidate understands he or she must profess some religious belief as a prerequisite to run for office. I'm fairly certain a healthy percentage of political officeholders don't actually hold the supernatural beliefs they profess, but understand that's the price of being in the arena (and thanks for CA Rep Pete Stark to be the first to break that cycle and actually acknowledge non-belief by a national political office holder).

In particular, the stated religious views of our three current Presidential candidates seem particularly suspect.

As he described in his first book, Obama may have sincerely come to his religious faith as an adult in Chicago. Certainly he ended up in a convenient church and religion for an ambitious young Black politician of that time and place (and one who had to answer concerns about "not being Black enough"). I don't consider that set of circumstances (whatever the actual belief) to be a disqualifier.

McCain seemed more genuine in his feelings in 2000, when he referred to right-wing fundamentalist whacko's Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as 'Agents of Intolerance.' Quite a journey from there to pursuing John Hagee's endorsement but then, look at how that worked out. His shift in church membership last year, from lifelong traditional Episcopalianism to God-Fearing Southern Baptist seems, well, see last Obama comment.

Clinton seems the most successful and possibly the least shameless in her ability to convince different types of church-goers she's one of them (evidenced by her recent overwhelming success with certain demographics in West Virginia and Kentucky). Still, I don't blame her jsut because she's more successful at the game

Mormon, Hindu, Christian (Evangelical or otherwise), Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan or Pagan...the particular flavor of invisible-friend-with-superpowers doesn't much matter. From a personal point of view (and I understand it's a minority point of view), only when candidates convince me both of their true belief and that they would make governing decisions based on that belief (i.e., Huckabee), is the candidate unqualified to hold office. That does usually rule out Fundamentalists of any flavor, as their faith nearly always mandates they establish the rules by which others must act.

(PaganPlace, I said that last once before and you came back with a very polite "more-in-sorrow" response that led to an exchange ending with me owing you a beer if, despite my doubts, we end up in the Summerlands at the same time).

"Richard McDonough: - just thinking about the Bible being a proved hoax makes the pope's head hurt"

Mc Dounough and the Pope are both ignorant of the Bible. It's an intelligent book and it is wise that idiots stay away from it. Pigs would never see the value of pearls.

purplemartin wrote " only when candidates convince me both of their true belief and that they would make governing decisions based on that belief (i.e., Huckabee), is the candidate unqualified to hold office "

I wonder why you live in the States where almost all laws are biblically based. It's only lately that it's becoming liberal. You should be living in communist countries instead.

You are an idiot just like all atheists are. There are people who misinterpret God's words but it's not an excuse to repudiate God.

HOW DID SOIL TURN INTO BRAIN OR HOW DID SOIL LEARN TO BREATHE? Make that your daily brain exercise.

Of course it is not God's plan that idiots like Hitler should rule the world. But it is God's plan that idiots like atheists, communists, false-god worshippers will be doomed, not because by a direct act of God, but by their own STUPIDITY.

SPIDERMAN2, BOYSCOUT - only idiots, (atheists) argue with such wisdom. Atheists know nothing about breathing life into statues or installing souls in brains so man can think, (about breathing life into statues and installing souls in brains). You have the answer. It's all a part of God's plan. We must have God otherwise we will all be idiots not capable of thinking, (about God's plan).

There is but one logical conclusion. Atheists do not have souls installed in their brains. But they do have brains and their heads don't hurt when they think about God's plan, breathing life into statues and installing souls in brains.

Your assignment is to find out why thinking certain thoughts makes the pope's head hurt.

"The Soviets had one good idea. They put religious fanatics in mental wards."

...and the Soviet Union collapsed. The end.

"Reading Ms. Hoffman's editorial, I am reminded of the fact that many of our serious geopolitical problems are tied to religious extremism, whether Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Isn't there a lesson here?"

No. Anti-religion has led to many of the world's problems. It was evolutionary thinking that led Hitler to want to "help" evolution by exterminating those he considered not "the fittest."

C’mon folks, be nice to Spidey. His head hurts so much from try to keep those evil, evil thoughts out of his mind. Thoughts like:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

…thoughts like the US Supreme Court saying (more than 60 years ago):

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment
means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government
...can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or
prefer one religion over another... In the words of Jefferson,
the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended
to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State.'"

…and

"We are all agreed that the First and Fourteenth Amendments have
a secular reach far more penetrating in the conduct of Government
than merely to forbid an `established church.'... We renew our
conviction that we have staked the very existence of our country
on the faith that 'complete separation between the state and
religion is best for the state and best for religion.'"

Thoughts like, the US depends on the Rule of Law, completely free of the influence of religion (not just Spidey’s...also all those others in conflict with his), to balance competing rights, and the law is intentionally biased toward a) expanding rather than restricting the population eligible for rights, and b) protecting the rights of the minority from the "Tyranny of the Majority" especially when that majority has settled on a predominant religion.

Perhaps someday Spidey will understand how this approach is the only one that protects both his rights (as an Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian) and the rights of others, no matter how evil he thinks those others may be for not bowing down before his god.

Spidey, here’s another evil thought. You and whatever religion you choose (and you've freely chosen one of the 1000 different religion and sects out there) have the full right to establish the moral rules governing all those who voluntarily agree to abide by those rules. Once you join the rest of society (and accept the benefits of belonging to said society), you do not have the right to force your rules on those who do not voluntarily agree to abide by them. We have agreed in our society to a system to document societal rights and privileges, and their conditions (Laws) and to resolve disputes and differences over the interpretations of these rights (Courts).

You disagree and say that not tolerating your intolerance is a violation of your rights? Fine, we'll work it out in court, through the rule of law, and both agree to abide by the results (while keeping the right to change the applicable set of law, through the democratic process).

See, wasn't that easy?

Evolution and Eugenics are not the same thing.
It is amazing people simplfy and distort concepts until the underlying issue is forgotten.

Regarding Spidy2, I doubt this individual will ever understand the privileges enjoyed from the separation of State and Church.

In Spidy2's own words, "It's only lately that it's becoming liberal", as if freedom and liberty are Sins. Spidy2 does not even know what the word "Liberal" means other than something spoken with hatered on AM Talk Radio propaganda.

Who wins the prize for remembering on Memorial Day who spoke my previous posting? purplemartin has a clue.

I don't know where secularist atheists came from. Do they have soiled brains? Here's a bit of history. Christianity built this nation. Doomsday is coming to weed out athesism in this country. That is the PLAN OF GOD.

***

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The Final Letter, as Sent

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

I don't know where secularist atheists came from. Do they have soiled brains? Here's a bit of history. Christianity built this nation. Doomsday is coming to weed out atheism in this country. That is the PLAN OF GOD.

***

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The Final Letter, as Sent

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Spiderman2:

Let me know when Doomsday comes to weed out atheism in this country.

And as long as the PLAN FROM YOUR GOD does not pick my pocket nor break my leg, then I can tolerate your intolerance.

BTW: Could "weeding out" be considered a form of Eugenics?

The biggest problem with injecting religion into politics is explaining how you lost when God was on your side.

The candidates have all made a point of going after the religious voters by courting faith leaders, or leveraging their current connections. It's a shallow connection at best, and bound to backfire at some point. It's not about their faith, it's about manipulating voters for the sake of votes. It's essentially a photo-op situation: shake hands and pose with a religious leader, and hope his followers vote for you. I'd prefer to just see a candidate exhibit good values in their personal lives, and then see those values play a role in their jobs.

I'm a Christian who happens to agree with separating church and state. Show me one single example of a nurturing and enlightened theocracy...just one. Yet I can show you numerous examples of horribly failed theocratic governments (that would be all of them), and many were Christian.

Contrary to the comments by one poster, this country was founded by men who were largely Christian, but not committed to forging a specifically "Christian nation." In fact, because of past persecution of Christians by other Christians in Europe, the founding fathers sought to create a country where anyone of any faith could freely practice their religion without government interference. Besides (and this is the most important point of all), no amount of legislation reflecting a specific religious belief will ever change someone's heart or mind. And to force a particular religious belief on someone through legislation is oppressive.

The point is that politics and religious doctrine are a bad mix that always reaches a flashpoint. On the other hand, a person of faith who believes that all human beings, even those of other faiths, have dignity and the right to be represented fairly and evenly, is someone who's bringing his/her personal beliefs into the public arena in a beneficial way. Nearly all faiths share what's known as The Golden Rule. If politicians would actually follow it, I'd have far less problem with the current mix of faith and politics that has so divided this country.

S. Heriger
http://sheriger-codex.blogspot.com

To more specifically address Claire's post, it should be pointed out that God's Plan is quite simple, and if practiced by the very people who make the claim of being a "person of faith," we wouldn't have the problems we have.

God's Plan, as repeated often in the Bible, is explained in terms even a child can understand. The most important commandment of God is that we love Him, and then love others as He has loved us.

Anything added to that is a worldly attempt manipulate God and fit Him in a box of our own making...and it's bound to fail. Even most agnostics, while dispensing with the God part, agree that treating others as we wish to be treated is a very valuable concept when applied to building a fair and just society.

Spidey, may I respectfully point out your last response amounts to "...is not! is not! nyah nyah nyah! I can't hear you! nyah nyah nyah nyah!"

But thank you for including Thomas Jefferson's famous Danbury Letter. You probably believe Jefferson's courteous closing (Jefferson was nothing if not courteous) somehow supports your prejudice—or perhaps you're claiming kelargo's prize?

Please note, however (and careful, this is going to make your head hurt again), it's more productive to contemplate Jefferson’s reference: "...that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Some people argue the 'wall of separation' was only Jefferson's opinion of what he favored, but not a part of the Constitution. But read that quote again...it's obvious that Jefferson, reflecting the common knowledge of educated people of his age, was simply observing the wall of separation was the purposeful and intended result of the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause—and that’s why government in America today may neither ‘respect’ nor ‘prohibit’ religion.

So, Spidey, please let me know how you support what seems to be a pretty wacky view that, in the US, “almost all laws are biblically based.” This country was founded by people of various and diverse beliefs, from near-atheistic deism (Jefferson) to modified Congregationalism (Adams), to ministers of various religions (Roger Young, etc.), to cheerful optimism and unspecified trust in a kindly Deity (Franklin), etc., etc., etc. But read some of the history of the drafting of the Constitution—there is no controversy at all that the goal of the Founders was to eliminate the influence of religion from government (lessons-learned from the State Churches of Europe). Note the many proposals to insert references to God, Jesus, and even "Divine Providence"—all were voted down by these wise men, these, undoubtedly, Men of God.

After the sheer audacity of conceiving a government formed by the common agreement of "We the People" rather than by the whims of Gods or Kings (or worst of all, the Divine Right of Kings), the glory of the Constitution is the First Amendment and its 'Five Freedoms' (quick, who can recall all five? let's see, Speech, Press, Religion, Assembly and Petition for Redress of Grievances (everyone forgets that last one)).

The most unique, original, and yes, audacious idea in our country’s Constitution is freedom both of and from religion, enforced by the wall of separation enacted by the Establishment Clause.

Spidey, you continue to shout “Doomsday is coming to weed out athesism in this country. That is the PLAN OF GOD.” May I observe that’s been the primary guiding belief of religious fanatics for the last several thousand years? “GOD (or more often GODs) will come—soon!—and, in His (Her, Their) Terrible Wrath, will wipe out you infidels, and then we few blessed chosen believers will rule, and laugh at you in your eternal torment!” Somehow, despite the millions of times this has been said, in support of thousands of different gods, it somehow just never seems to actually happen. So tell me, for what possible reason should I discount thousands of years of past history and decide that you—Spiderman2!—is the first one to actually get it right?

(Spiderman2: “No, no, my head hurts! ...is not! is not! nyah nyah nyah! I can't hear you! nyah nyah nyah nyah!")

These people are freakin scary!

These people are freakin scary.

I don't have a plan.

Since Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all evolved from polytheists should we not think in terms of Gods Plan and not God's plan. It seems reasonable to me that we should revert to our roots and have many gods and presumably many plans.

spiderman2: Steven Waldman observes in his new book about American religion that the Jeffersonians praised the Baptists because they shared their opposition to church-state ties. Jefferson himself still despised Baptists for their superstitions.

candide said: "Jefferson himself still despised Baptists for their superstitions."

Yet, he remained utterly courteous and polite in all his communications to them--something that could be a lesson for many posting to these blogs, yes?

We seem to be batting 0-2 in the preacher department.

Are delusional lunatics really the only choices out there?

Readers might consider forgetting what politicians say about religion as well as what most ministers, priests and other "authorities" put out there for our consumption.

God is not a concept to be found in the mind as an idea or thought.

God is an experience. Forget dogma, theology and infallible beliefs. Seek the simplest form of your own awareness and let that quiet intuitive voice within reveal deeper insights into more universal levels of reality.

> Enemy Of The State:
>
>We seem to be batting 0-2 in the preacher >department.
>
>Are delusional lunatics really the only choices
>out there?

Eat your daily dose of Manufactured Consent, it is rich and full of fertilizer.

candide said: "Jefferson himself still despised Baptists for their superstitions."

Were those Babtists members of the SBC? i.e. Sunni Baptist Cult? or that other God fearing faction, the Shiite Babtist Cult?

candide said: "Jefferson himself still despised Baptists for their superstitions."

Superstitions like the SOIL FORMED INTO BRAIN all by themselves. Watch out for my upcoming book : "The book of Idiots : Look Ma, No Brains".

It's a compilation of the atheists' responses on HOW SOIL TURNED INTO BRAIN.

These idiotic people rule in many countries around the world. These people will cause DOOMSDAY. Is it God's will that they will become idiots? Of course not.

In a way, Doomsday is not God's will. Doomsday is in the hands of these idiots. These people will be doomed by their own mistakes.

Who would first push the Doomsday button? Im sure it will come from an idiot's finger. More or less an atheist or a practitioner of an Anti-Christ religion like religions that want Israel not to exist.

Purplemartin, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Wait no more. It's about to happen in a few years time.

Separation of Church and State was established so the State cannot harrass religious worshippers like the early Baptists. Check your history. It was an Ammendment pursued by believers of Christ.

If you guys want Doomsday not to happen, make yourselves sane. SOIL CANNOT TURN INTO BRAIN AND CANNOT BREATH ALL BY THEMSELVES. SUPERSTITION, that is the cause of doomsday.

Nice reasoned, logical response from Spidey, wasn't it?

Allen, that sounded like such a good idea that I tried to let that "...quiet intuitive voice within reveal deeper insights into more universal levels of reality."

...and the voice I heard said... "These people are freakin' scary!" ... (apologies to Patty O and Aunt-Anti).

Hey Spidy2,

Push this button... err, I mean... pull my finger.

*Ka-Boom!!*

Guess what? Today is not Doomsday. I guess, that means you're not the special anointed one, who will push the Doomsday button? At least not today, huh?

And Yes, I agree with you. There are lots of idiots in this world. And some of these idiots are rulers of Coutries, with powers capable of destroying human life on this giant blue and white marble several times over with thermonuclear weapons. That is a fact.

The one thing you are over looking, is the fact, that this planet will continue to revolve around the Sun without a single Human Being. The reality, I think you find difficult to understand, is the fact that the human race is not as important as you believe. So, if/when Doomsday comes and the human race is annihilated. C'est la vie and Que Sera Sera.

Ask yourself, what have you done to make this a better place to live?
Besides goose-stepping to church on Sunday?

Interesting quote from a 1987 text by McCain's pastor (at North Phoenix Baptist Church) Dan Yeary:

"One of the greatest dangers, both to government and to authentic religion, is civil religion. Civil religion is a mixture of religion and politics developed to serve the interests of the state. In civil religion, the religious institutions are used to drum up support for political positions. Approval is sought from religious leaders for actions of the state. The religious institutions and spiritual goals take a back seat to supporting the actions of political leaders."

As an outsider looking in, America must be the only place where intelligent people would enter into an argument with the likes of Spidermanz

The word "religion" means to tie together, to bind, to unite. When religions fail in this role, democracies free up the individual to make choices and to become informed about their individual freedoms---Gd given human rights. America is at a new stage in her development as a Gd-inspired nation and monotheistic practices of faith.
Lovingkindness, peace, knowledge, forgiveness, science, truth, wisdom and love of the Holy One are eternal values and principles of the faithful.
All monotheistic religions are dynamic and develop together or apart. Principles found in the charter of the United Nations is consistent with the general principles of all enlightened religions and nations today.
Globalization and interconnectedness of cyberspace enable greater coherence and synergies resulting in more rapid development.

Religious diversity and cross-cultural understanding can only advance the cause of civilization when mutual respect provides dialogue/communication.

One planet undergoing unprecedented rapid changes through cyberspace global communication advancing human understanding and potential.

Time for the Americans to grow up and discard their religious delusions. It's frightening to know that the citizens and leaders of a nuclear-armed, economically powerful nation actually talk about these ridiculous fables as though they had any meaning outside anthropology. We face serious challenges that are not going to yield to prayers and other meaningless babble. Solutions will arrive after serious, educated and non-delusional thought.

"Renowned scientist Albert Einstein dismissed the Bible as a collection of “pretty childish” legends and belief in God as a “product of human weaknesses,” according to a letter to be auctioned this week.

Einstein, who was Jewish, also rejects the notion that Jews were God’s chosen people. "

Claire Hoffman is a fraud.

Spiderman2 wrote: "If you guys want Doomsday not to happen, make yourselves sane. SOIL CANNOT TURN INTO BRAIN AND CANNOT BREATH ALL BY THEMSELVES. SUPERSTITION, that is the cause of doomsday."

Oh Spidy, why do you lack faith? Scientists have already used soil to make most of the components of your cells. They have even made double walled cell membranes. All with the equivalent of soil.

People like you used to talk about how scientists couldn't explain how the sun shined and so was due to God, until nuclear fusion was discovered. People like you used to say it was God that kept the planets in motion, and the moon in its orbit, until Kepler explained it without the need for a God's hand. People like you used to talk about how children were miracles of God, until biologists discovered how sperm and egg come together, and with the help of the discovery of DNA now show how it is all possible without God.

So today you speak of how soil cannot turn into brain, yet scientists are getting closer and closer to being able to do that, well, soil into cells anyway. What will happen to your faith when it happens? My guess is you will pick some other mystery of nature and hold it up as "proof of God's existance". Maybe the formation of the universe itself. Well, scientists are narrowing in on that mystery too.

What is worse than believing in myth though is you are implying that science and its slow erosion of religious myth is dooming mankind. I would propose that doomday and its continual forcast of being just around the corner (for over a millenia) is yet another myth to keep your faith alive and your mind in constant fear, and thus submission to the faith.

Spidy, if you have such a strong faith, please explain how the dinosaurs did not make it onto the ark, when the bible says all animals made it, and also explain how the kangaroos exited the ark after the flood and hopped back to Australia. My guess is you cannot explain these things without evoking the magic of God or twisting the words of the bible. Either way it shows your faith is built on myth, not reason, not study, not understanding of even the bible.

denis arvay:

Thank you thank you.
Well said.

fate wrote "Scientists have already used soil to make most of the components of your cells. They have even made double walled cell membranes. All with the equivalent of soil. "

There are two errors (actually 3) to this statement. One is that it is false coz no scientist has ever created a life form 100% by his own intellect.

The "best" scientists was able to do was to copy the least complicated DNA block by block (meaning, they never understood the science behind it). Similar to a student who copied his seatmate's exam answers including his seatmate's COMPLETE NAME (middle name included).

Second, Im not even sure if they were able to make a duplicate of an egg cell. I haven't heard they've done that yet, therefore, it's very likely that they they're not capable of doing it.

Third, scientists have brains and these brains work to create. And even with brains, they can't recreate their brains. Soil doesn't have brains and is not capable of doing work of any kind whatsoever.

Soil can't create brain all by itself. YOU JUST SHOWED YOUR STUPIDITY. (Hey soil, how come you were able to make brains but the brains you made don't know you have no brain?)

Just accept it guys, you are idiots and doomed in the near future. And waht's more scary is that it's a NEVER ENDING FUTURE. DOOMED FOREVER.

The Bible is undoubtedly the word of God and totally true. Unfortunately, some people depart from the Bible and state their own opinions. I would encourage everyone to read the Bible and thereby discover that God is real. It is my hope that everyone will realize that every person will spend eternity in heaven or hell. The choice is yours.

Barry said:

As an outsider looking in, America must be the only place where intelligent people would enter into an argument with the likes of Spidermanz

Barry,

True, "arguing" with Spiderman2, the individual, is as enlightened as having a philosophical conversation with mushrooms growing in a deep, dark, damp underground cavern.

Unfortunately, Spiderman2, the enigma, is very real and has the rights and responsibilities permitted of all citizens.

And like all fungi, a light needs to be shown upon the ignorance and intolerance, to curb its procreation. This ignorance and intolerance is not unique to America. It is systemic to all Countries and Cultures; the happenstance is human nature.

Altruism is the rare gem that needs cultivated with a strong dose of Pragmatism. No one wants fungus to grow unabated.