Germany and Scientology

You refer to the "checkered past" of the Scientology cult as being a consideration in your appraisal of Germany's measures. Unfortunately, the subterfuge, slander, and altogether malignant nature of Scientology are all too real in the present day.

Scientology achieved religious recognition in the US by filing 2500 lawsuits against the IRS and blackmailing its officials. It now enjoys an entirely unjust standing with the IRS that, financially, places it above genuine religions such as Christianity or Judaism.

Use of brainwashing is institutionalized. Smear campaigns and spurious litigation are practiced against anyone who dares to leave the cult or speak out against it.

The German government considers Scientology to be a threat to liberty on a par with Al-Qaeda and organised crime. And justly so. The be-all and end-all of Scientology is profit and power, regardless of who gets in the way. It is a cult, not a religion. Followers who have paid enough to be told about Xenu and the Body Thetans (see Hubbard's atrocious science fiction for more information) are instructed to lie to anyone who hasn't. Everything about Scientology is deceptive and deceitful, and Germany's stringent stance on the cult is the best possible approach.

Scientology is not a religion. It is a sophisticated money making scheme run by people who control and take advantage of vulnerable people. It is not much different than other large group awareness training programs like the Landmark Forum. The Germans are right in closely watching this organization.

Ms. Hoffman, I'm truly surprised to read your article defending scientology as a harmless religion.

Have you done any research on the internet? Seen the sworn affidavits from dozens of victims of their scam? Have you read the court documents in which scientologists have been found guilty of fraud and espionage on several governments?

The Washington Post is a respected journal, not a venue for puff pieces.I expected a deeper level of journalistic research and editorial responsibility.

You make me sick, you "faith" commentators. You're always there, really to circle the wagons and defend anything that remotely calls itself a religion simply because you are scared that you might be next.
"Aware of their checkered past"? Are you kiding me?. I bet if you had been in author Paulette Cooper's shoes then you'd think a bit more strongly. You need to take a very long cold hard look at the facts about this abusive cult.

Germany's constitution guarantees freedom of religion. But Scientology methods of parishioner donation fly in the face of the German government's method. The government collects the donations for the two established religions. Those parishioner's church donations pass through the German government to be accurately distributed to the two established churches. This is a large and fixed economic system. Like income tax, many people's jobs are involved with collection of donations and their accurate dispersement. Therefore, the constitution says one thing, while practical day-to-day activity, holds another thing in place.

You are correct about Scientology. It is a religion based on self-help and has some worthwhile ideas.

The religion is not the problem. The governing body of Scientology is the threat that the Germans are concerned about.

Prosecution of the leadership of the Church of Scientology, not persecution of the followers, should be the goal.

You ask what the German government is afraid of? Well they are probably afraid of a totalitarian master race organisation seeking global dominance gaining power, they've already had that happen to them once in the last hundred years and they likely want to make sure it does not happen again. Considering the CoS's history of government infiltration, there 'homo novis'/clear the planet philosophies, the fact that there founder said that if all the people from the lower end of the "tone scale" were to be suddenly "deleted" it would have a great effect on society, I can certainly see why the Germans would want to keep them away.

Germany's surveillance of Scientology is no worse than trying to keep tabs on some extremist Islamic sect or other terrorist group. When it is said that Scientology is a dangerous cult, it isn't meant in some sort of wishy washy "they are going to corrupt our morals" sort of way. No, it's meant in the "if you make them angry they will find were you live and make your life hell" sort of way, they will come after you, they will come after your friends, your children.

Paulette Cooper was nearly sent to prison for a bomb threat that the Church of Scientology wrote on paper they stole from her house. it was only because the FBI raided a CoS facility in response to the largest domestic government infiltration in US history that she was able to save herself. it makes one wonder what they have been up to lately and what our government is doing to make sure they don't revisit there "checkered past".

I think the problem here is that you've not separated the "faith" (which is weird, but who are we to criticise someone who wants to believe in aliens?) and the "church". The Church of Scientology's a business, pure and simple. It's done a fascinating job of exploiting that icky space between religious exemption and legitimate business, but that is absolutely no reason to shrug it off.

I understand the inclination to look the other way, if you're convinced the Church of Scientology is harmless. But as reams of court documents and hundreds of destroyed families will show, it's not harmless. It's a pyramid scheme that flits between "religion" and "business", and brainwashes people along the way.

At the very least, check out the Freezoners -- Scientologists who practice OUTSIDE official Church channels. They are faith. The CoS is business.

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

After reading sites like www.xenu.net and www.whyaretheydead.net , I do have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German government. I wonder why the American government is turning a blind eye to one of the largest and most dangerous marketing/hypnotism scams that has ever existed.

Calling something a religion does not absolve it from scrutiny. Especially when there is a proven history of criminal action being perpetrated in its name.

I reiterate the above sentiments of shame that such a great paper as the Washington Post would publish such uneducated dreck. The author has claimed to be well-read and shows that to be a lie with every subsequent word.

Surely you have some minimum criteria for what qualifies as a "religion" in your mind. Otherwise, you'd consider the pederasty of the "Arcadian Fields Ministries" to be protected by freedom of religion.

Please take a few minutes to think about what those criteria might be. Then take a few more minutes to apply those criteria to Scientology. I'm not sure what the result will be -- I don't mean to say that Scientology is the equivalent of the "Arcadian Fields Ministries" -- but the exercise should be instructive.

The actual author of this message is indeed not Lisa McPherson, but if you think I'm signing my own name on a post critical of Scientology, you're crazy. I have no desire to be Fair Game.

Scientology is responsible for the biggest U.S. Government infiltration to date (Google Operation Snow White to learn more) and countless human rights violations, that include, but are not limited to, the use of child labour, forceful imprisoning and denial of hospital care, which has lead to deaths. Germany has every right to be afraid of this brainwashing cult. It often wonders me why haven't other countries yet taken a similar stance in this matter.

Germany recognizes a totalitarianism regime when it sees one. Scientologists consider themselves to be a race above other races. They are not homosapien, they are homo novus. The Church of Scientology CONSISTENTLY violates human rights of their members and I think Germany are the only ones smart enough NOT to look the other way.
The US should consider the Germans experts in this area of threats. Germany learns from their mistakes, why can't the US? This is Jim Jones to the 100th power. There may be no kool-aid, but people are being brainwashed just the same.

Well, I guess you are unaware of the fact that the Church of Scientology covered up the presence of blue asbestos on their religious cruise ship the Freewinds then, ignoring a former member's sworn affidavit in 2001 (and in person, in 1987)

As I type this, the Freewinds, is in drydock under seal. For analysis and removal of the blue asbestos by the dutch government. According to verified news, blue asbestos entered the ventaliation system on multiple occasions in which the passengers were not informed.

Scientology members go here for meetings and to learn their top levels inside the organization. They were unwittingly exposed.

Does covering up a blue asbestos problem on one of their spiritual headquarters sound very "churchy" to you Claire?

Are you truly that naive or simply another journalist too freightened of this cult to tell the truth.

You might want to try to explain away the murder of Lisa McPherson as simply the actions of this quirky religion.

I suppose that Germany is affraid of having its citizens made into slaves by the heartless actions of certain Orgs. Or they might want to stem the tide of harassment and blackmail that follows this "religion."

Whatever, you do a disservice to your fellow man by negating the evil actions of this CULT!

You deal with their history of abuse and criminal acts, upon instructions by the church's founder, as one line?

The fact that the church sued the IRS for it's tax status means nothing? The fact that the church sues those who criticize it?

The fact that they have detailed instructions you can find on wikileaks on training techniques to 'handle' reporters and questions from authority so as not to shed any information of real significance?

You dealt with the most heinous harassment of a fellow journalist Paulette Cooper, who was framed, by the church, for bomb threats? In which in the ensuing investigation she was cleared completely and 11 church officials including Hubbards WIFE went to jail?

This article from such an esteemed news source is very disappointing. The German government has every right to keep an eye, a close eye on this cult. They are facing up to a problem which the government of this country fails to confront.

You deal with their history of abuse and criminal acts, upon instructions by the church's founder, as one line?

The fact that the church sued the IRS for it's tax status means nothing? The fact that the church sues those who criticize it?

The fact that they have detailed instructions you can find on wikileaks on training techniques to 'handle' reporters and questions from authority so as not to shed any information of real significance?

You dealt with the most heinous harassment of a fellow journalist Paulette Cooper, who was framed, by the church, for bomb threats? In which in the ensuing investigation she was cleared completely and 11 church officials including Hubbards WIFE went to jail?

This article from such an esteemed news source is very disappointing. The German government has every right to keep an eye, a close eye on this cult. They are facing up to a problem which the government of this country fails to confront.

As L Ron Hubbard once said,

"Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's 1984? Yes,yes, that's wonderful. That would be--- could be the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence."

The Church of Scientology has tried to whitewash this by removing the sentence from his tapes (Google it), but this mentality permeates the organisation of the Church of Scientology to this day.

The German government, unlike this opinion columnist, knows a totalitarian regime when they see one.

As for "self-improvement", tell that to the man who committed suicide after paranoid Church members told him he had been drugged and brainwashed by the government to infiltrate Scientology. (Testimonial from his daughter on Youtube.)

Tell that to the many people who went as far to re-mortgage their home to pay for more Scientology courses. Tell that to Noah Lottick, who jumped to his death clutching his last few dollars to his chest - the only way he could escape the clutches of the "Church" that had taken him in.

I'm sure that relatives of victims of the Peoples Temple and Jim Jones would disagree. If the US had taken an early role in helping the victims of the cult instead of waiting until it was to late 900 lives would have been saved.

If you think Mein Kampf was bad for Germany, just imagine a state of Diantetics fiends who think that the perfect human is a "clear" and that all others are "aberrated, mentally ill" people. Not to mention that it is their duty as preclears and clears to "clear the planet". Yeah, that's exactly what Germany needs right now.

Next time sweetie, if you want to pretend you're an investigative reporter, do some real investigating. The current orgnaization of Scientology is a cult. It's a mafia run pyramid scheme. The truly RELIGIOUS who simply want to follow the faith and beliefs of homeopathy are called FREEZONERS and Germany has no buff with them. Neither does Anonymous.

To quote a friend of mine: "No religion should be allowed TODAY, in the FREE world, to rule it's people and its detractors with the same criminal practices of the Catholic Church of the Dark Ages."

THIS is why Germany has a problem with the current organization. They need to reform (i.e. conform to the legal rights and basic human principals of DECENCY) if they are determined to exist peacefully among other human beings.

You can start a religion that says it's okay to molest children and rape women. But you're still going to get arrested once you practice it.

Do a little more research to become familiar with their checkered present.

You wrote: "They are religion largely focused on self-improvement."

Yes, that is what the Cult SAYS in its PR literature, but it is not in fact what they DO!

Please google Jason Beghe, an actor and former member of the "church" who recently left and has been speaking very publicly about his experiences: experiences which he believes harmed not only him but his family.

Also look into the contract (there is an article about this in a recent Radar Online article) that all people are required to sign before they take a SINGLE course. Read that contract and ask yourself, what faith or religion requires you to virtually sign away every single human right in order to even be allowed to pass through its doors.

Google Lisa McPherson and read about what happened to her in the care of church "ministers."

Google Jeff Hawkins and listen (online) or read about his experiences at the notorious Int Base in Hemet California (he also posts onlime in a number of forums as "fishdaddy.")

Google Marc Headley for more of the above (particularly in a blogtalk radio interview with Dawn Olsen).

And finally, don't you watch television? Recently, ABC's Nightline interviewed a number of former Cult members including Jenna Miscavige (the neice of church leader, David Miscavige), and Astra and Lawrence Woodcraft. The program is still available online at the ABC website.

And then after listening to the horrifying stories of all these people (and many many more who continue to tell virtually identical stories over a 25-30 year period) if this Cult can actually be called a "religion largely focused on self-improvement."

I expect better of a paper who had the fortitude to write in depth about the Unification Church so recently.

I'm not a Scientologist, but I just can't understand why anyone would think Scientology is dangerous.

Is it because of Operation Snow White (the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history with up to 5,000 Scientologists involved in theft from government offices and illegal wiretapping, eleven high level Scientology executives convicted)? Sure, that was odd, but...someone has to keep an eye on the government.

Is it because Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard wrote: "Once the world is Clear - a nation, a state, a city or a village - the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is Scientology policy."
Quote from "Future Org Trends," January 9th 1962.

Or is it because he endorses mass murder?

“In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the tone scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind…”
- Science of Survival, L. Ron Hubbard, pg 86

“It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down…”
“There are only two answers…The first is to raise them on the tone scale…The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.”
“The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered…A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy... By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country.”
- Science of Survival, L. Ron Hubbard, pg 100

Text quoted under Fair Use provisions.
All copyrights are property of the Church of Scientology, the RTC and the CST.

Ms. Hoffman,

Surely the intimidation "Fair Game" and "Disconnection" policies of this so-called Church deserve more scrutiny. Suggest you read up and listen to the Jason Beghe interview or speak with Arnie Lerma and many of the other ex-scientologists who dared to speak about their time in this quirky church. It destroys lives, it breaks up families, it forces abortions, it deprives children of education and works its members worse than any sweatshop you will find.

Please Ms. Hoffman, do yourself and your readers a favor and educate yourself. Scientology is in conflict with OUR constituion, just that they were able to play some sort of trump card with the IRS to get that "fixed". Dig deeper.

One more thing: Don't you find it even an teeny bit hypocritical that an organization which not only hires a virtual army of private PIs to stalk, harass and intimidate it's critics, but also has its own enormous in-house intelligence gathering arm, knowns as the Office of Special Affairs (OSA) is objecting to an investigation by a bona fide government?

Really, what kind of "church" trains its own band of spies? What kind of self-improvement is that?

Pro-tip: google Sceintology, Fair Game, OSA.

Hi Ms. Hoffman,

You might be interested in a 2001 article written by Prof. Stephen A. Kent, who specializes in the sociology of religion. Stephen notes that Scientology’s history of human rights violations make countries with recent experience living through fascism very suspicious. While France and Germany openly acknowledge and work to prevent cults from operating, America kind of gets stuck on ‘they have a right to their opinion.’ It’s an interesting read. If you were planning to do some research before you write your next article about the CoS overseas, Kent’s article is as good a place as any to start.

Kent, Stephen A. (Jan. 2001) The French & German versus American Debate over ‘New Religions,’ Scientology & Human Rights. Marburg Journal of Religion. 6(1)

“What is Germany so afraid of” is an excellent question. I heartily encourage you to begin trying to answer it. Your article above has no historical context. And that’s rather disappointing coming from the post.

What a terribly spoon fed article.

Unfortunately for you Ms. Hoffman, you where jut duped by the PR machine so well run by Scientology. They have such a tight control over their own people, as well as their own public opinion and image, they will stoop to tactics as buying their own books for exasperated New York Times Best sellers list, off set polls of public opinion, and cow critics in to silence by threats of litigation they use as a proxy of intimidation.

Consider this Dossier on scientology recently released by the german government. This outlines the business aspect structure of the corporation, as well as the "Religion" guise they pedle themselves under.

http://www.stmi.bayern.de/imperia/md/content/stmi/sicherheit/verfassungsschutz/scientology/system_so_engl.pdf

Scientology is a self-help organization that uses religious symbols and the cloak of religion for tax exempt status and for general societal recognition and respect. As per L. Ron Hubbard's instructions, they are combative towards any critics or any person who dares to question them publicly. As for this column treating them as a religion, how many religions offer their scriptures or theology for sale only to proven loyalists?

Germany's position may seem harsh but once Scientology loses tax-exempt status, the "Nazi" accusations, the spying on government officials, the lawsuits, the whisper campaigns, and open harrassment in public and private begin. Germany is smart to deal with it directly

Here's just one of the many quotes of Hubbards you can read when you look more closely at the 'religion' of scientology:

'In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind'- L.Ron Hubbard SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL.

'There are only two answers for the handling of people from the 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, none of them has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow.' (page 170)

Claire, if you are not used to some of the special terms being employed here try this:

FAIR GAME. Fair Game may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any scientologist without any discipline of the scientologist.
L RON HUBBARD, Hubbard Communications Office, Policy Letter, 18th October 1967

The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations. This does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP.
L RON HUBBARD, Hubbard Communications Office, Policy Letter, 21st October 1968

SP means Suppressive Person.'Fair Game' is a SP critic of scientology, someone they want out of the way.

There's a lot more where this came from: the websites xenu.tv and Operation Clambake, or try Jenna Miscavige-Hill's 'Ex-Scientology Kids', (the niece of David Miscavige) for details of the child abuse that happens within the 'church'.

Please take this business with scientology seriously Claire. The Germans know what they are doing having already gone through intimate experience of an authoritarian regime wanting to change the world. Please help us all - you are a journalist, I imagine you know how to do your research, how to verify it; how to distinguish between truth and heresay. There is a library of official documents on the internet- court testaments, judges rulings, convicted scientologists, accounts of fraud and terror, suspicious deaths....if I see another newspaper picture of Tom Cruise at another party I will scream.

On July 7,2007 in Austrailia a young lady told police "What have I done? I just butchered my family ... I have just butchered my family. I stabbed Dad, Mum and sister. They are all dead." Her mother actually didn't die but was seriously injured in the attack.

Why did this attack occur? Her family members were Scientologists, a "religion" know to abhor psychiatrists and the medication available to deal with serious mental disorders. He family denied her anti-psychotic drugs for a year. The result is this massacre.

Another Scientologist, Elle Perkins, was murdered by her son Jeremy for the same reasons. He was extremely mentally ill. Because her "church" banned anti-psychotic drugs her son was denied their benefits. As a result, in a psychitic frenzy he stabbed his own mother SEVENTY-SEVEN times!

You are either on the Scientology payroll or too frieghtened to tell the truth about this "misunderstood" religion!

Fun fact: If a child is mollested in Scientology it is a CRIME for them to report it. Instead they have to use an internal "justice" system that, among other absurdities, forces the child to explain how THEY helped cause their own abuse.

Self help religion my ass.

Why would a legitimate organization reject to being monitored?
Have you bothered to research the unfair tax breaks scientologists have bullied the IRS in to giving them in the Untied States? They have tax advantages on other Church in America has! I'm terrified by anything that can scare the IRS.
I applaud the German government and I hope the United States Government wakes up!

Exactly how aware are you of their checkered past? The Church of Scientology are a threat to freedom of speech. Not only do they have a checkered past, but they haven't changed or reformed in any way. People are still being Fair-Gamed, families are still being broken up, and the Church of Scientology are still trying to censor the internet and control information. This is truly a dangerous cult under the guise of religion, and to brush them off as having a checkered past is, in my opinion, an understatement.

Banning the organization of Scientology is different than banning the religion, as Germany is reported to have the largest group of Freezoners (a splinter group of Scientology, who follows the religion but disagree with the policies), so religion is not an issue here. Please educate yourself more, as the monthly worldwide protests are happening for a reason.

"Ban Scientology? Doesn't that seem kind of extreme? They are religion largely focused on self-improvement. While I'm well aware of their checkered past"

They are a business focused on money. I could show you hundreds of selfhelp books/courses that cost literally 1000 times less than Scientology does. You show me a religion that charges $1.8 billion for self improvement, and I'll show you a scam.

And as far as their "checkered past" goes, you should look at their checkered present.

The punchline of the German constitution is "Human dignity shall be inviolable". And there, in my opinion, lies the conflict with Scientology. Freedom of religion is, as far as Germany is concerned, second to that basic principle. And from what I have read about Scientology, concerns about their attitude towards human dignity (of their members as well as of non-members) are definitely justified.

Additionally: Is it any wonder that Germans are a bit sensitive when it comes to organisational mechanisms that so blatantly scream "Herrenrasse"?

In the Los Angeles Times, a few years ago, you yourself wrote about how Scientology is a "pay as you go" proposition.

You said:
"Founded in 1954, Scientology is a religion without a deity. It teaches that "spiritual release and freedom" from life's problems can be achieved through one-on-one counseling called auditing, during which members' responses are monitored on an "e-meter," similar to a polygraph. This process, along with a series of training courses, can cost Scientologists many tens of thousands of dollars."

How can you reconcile that, Ms. Hoffman with your current position that it's a religion instead of a cult? (one of the many hallmarks of a cult it has--squeezing the money out of its members in exchange for enlightenment which leads nowhere)

You ALSO wrote in that SAME piece about the many ways that David Miscavige and Tom Cruise are treated like Kings. Presumably with that same money collected from those poor people. And yet NOW you say that this is a "religion largely focused on self-improvement"? Do these two things MATCH? I think not.

Go on YouTube and search for a video called "Mind Control Made Easy".

It's not literally about Scientology, but the creator has stated that there are tons of similarities to what your typical "Sea Org" worker in Scientology goes through, and many, many people who have left Scientology and Sea Org have signed off on a lot of the similarities. The video is dark humor, but these ex-Scientologists see the resemblance. So... why don't you? Is it "faith" if this is the kind of behavior expected?

The 'Church' of Scientology is taking a lot of heat in Europe in general at the moment. This year the CoS was indicted in Belgium for extortion, fraud and organized crime and in 1995 was banned in Greece after attempts to infiltrate the government.

I also suggest looking up the details about "Operation Snow White", "Operation Freak out" and "Project Normandy" to gain an understanding of the scale of the CoS's attempts at intimidation and government infiltration within the US.

I believe people should be free to practice their religion/beliefs, but in this case I believe the German government has every right to be concerned about an organization with such a well documented history of criminality.

I as a citizen of germany often have to wonder if the americans are aware of what scientology really is. The government agency that monitors Scientology here in germany is the Bundesverfasungsschutz, it's active against islamic, right-wing and left-wing extremists -or what it deems to be such- and since 1997 also Scientology. There is a good reason why they do so and if you want to inform yourself you may read this to get some background knowledge on scientology.

http://www.stmi.bayern.de/imperia/md/content/stmi/sicherheit/verfassungsschutz/scientology/system_so_engl.pdf

or you may educate yourself on the internet i´m pretty sure you will stumble upon some very interesting webpages like

xenu.net

Most of the germans in my generation are grateful for the gifts we received by the americans when this country was held ransom by a totalitarian regime. We really enjoy freedom of speech as you can see. And like David here already mentioned we won´t let that happen again we won´t be fooled again by a totalitarian master race organisation seeking global dominance that´s not even caring about the most basic human rights. And i you Mrs. Hoffman would dig a little deeper into the background of this so called "church" you would find that it is exactly that.

"Germany's top security officials reiterated in December that they consider Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution"

Well you know our constitution is based on democratic rules and of course we do find a organisation offending who´s leader says, and this is a quote from L.Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology: "And I don't see that popular measures, self-abnegation and democracy have done anything for Man but push him further into the mud"

Well Mr. Hubbard i don´t think so, i´m glad to live in a free democratic country enjoying all the rights that your organisation doesn´t even grant it´s own members.

"What is Germany so afraid of?"

Perhaps the same things that other (and in my opinion much smarter countries) in Europe are. (COS banned in Greece, sued for fraud in Belgium, raided in St. Petersburg for keeping blackmail files sued in France, Spain, Canada, and Italy). Germany knows all too well the dangers of cult movements. Their not so distant past haunts them and they have taken firm steps to be certain that THEIR country does nothing to encourage and lift up these evil cults.

Faith in an evil galactic warlord aka Xenu is one thing, blackmail, slavery, government infiltration, child labor and abuse, forced abortions, blue asbestos filled cruise ship, fair game, and numerous other offenses are MORE than reason enough for Germany to stand firm. I am not making this up; a new device called the Internet has opened up a world of information available at your fingertips. Try it. Specifically the not-so-secret-anymore documents on Wikileaks that highlight not only the whacky spiritual writings (my opinion only I personally worship the FSM) but the HOST of illegal activities including their despicable LEAF project, and other sneaky unethical means of infiltrating and affecting media.

As a writer with such a public forum, I would have expected you to do your research. Clearly using the old tried and true methods of journalism are no longer of any interest to today's writers because so few of them bother with "truthiness."

As for the religious fear factor (AKA OMG WE ARE NEXT) let it go. When Catholic priests diddle little boys they are called to stand in court, it's against the law. When FDLS people break the laws regarding sex with minors, they are face the courts, when the messianic cult fellow diddles children he is arrested. It is not about what those people believe it's about what they do being AGAINST THE LAW. When Xians or Catholics begin to (again since they used to) violate human rights in order to push their religion THEY too will be held accountable because IT'S AGAINST THE LAW.

It is about time that the media in the U.S. stop being afraid of speaking out AGAINST cults and other so called religions that BREAK THE LAW, it is in YOUR best interest to do so. In other countries around the world the media is standing UP and reporting on these abuses with far more courage than their counterparts in the U.S. media. Did you know that many other countries and their media have reported on the very real and very serious dangers of the Scientology ship of cancer death, the Freewinds. The asbestos infiltration has been known about in the U.S. for almost 20 years and the ship is BANNED from docking here. I guess the health of members of OTHER countries is just not that important since THEY are just now finding out the horrors they have been KNOWINGLY exposed to. Not ONE main stream American media has been brave enough to do an article on this and help warn the countless THOUSANDS of Americans who have been exposed to this deadly asbestos. No, Americans have to find out via the media of other countries and blogs. SHAME.

The U.S., the country with the free speech, and hard hitting journalism....a fantasy.

Do your research and stop being afraid that YOUR religion will be next. Don't break the law, don't lie to people, don't rob them of their money and their human rights, don't force them to separate from their families, don't attack people who do not agree with you, don't lie with every word out of your mouth,, and no one is going to bother with you.

I am tired of the Cult of Scientology and their Teflon coating...even the Teflon Don eventually went down.

tl;dr
Germany smart
Americans not so.

I would consider how Scientology got religious status under the law in the United states before I made any comments on how Germany deals with Scientoly.

You're a smart lady , you can google it

Here's a master race description for you to ponder:

"Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the tin cans and then this guy asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay enough money you get to join the master race. How's that for a religion? "

Frank Zappa

Ms. Hoffman,

A few recommendations.

If you want to read information from actual people who've lived through what you are characterizing as "self help" and violently disagree with your characterization?

www(dot)exscientologykids(dot)com

If you want to do the ACTUAL job of a journalist and report on Scientology? Go to Google News and search the following word:

"Freewinds"

You'll see a shabby number of results, because you and your colleagues seem to be largely ignoring what's going on, but the results that ARE there should alarm you and perk your interest as a journalist.

Uninformed softball pieces like this make me sick.

Ms. Hoffman,

A few recommendations.

If you want to read information from actual people who've lived through what you are characterizing as "self help" and violently disagree with your characterization?

www(dot)exscientologykids(dot)com

If you want to do the ACTUAL job of a journalist and report on Scientology? Go to Google News and search the following word:

"Freewinds"

You'll see a shabby number of results, because you and your colleagues seem to be largely ignoring what's going on, but the results that ARE there should alarm you and perk your interest as a journalist.

Do some research first

I usually respect the Post as having thoroughly researched articles

Obviously you didn't do your homework here

ie.
Why did Time magazine call Scienology "the cult of Greed" on their cover in 1991

Bob, I agree. The mainstream media has been sitting on their asses about the blue asbestos problem on the Freewinds and articles like this let it happen. It pisses me (and other victims of this cult off) to have those that should help turn a blind eye to real stories of people who have been "in"

Scientology is largely "focused" on self-improvement in much the same way that a stage magician's audience is "focused" on his right hand while his left hand switches the cards around. It's a sham. Your own desire to improve yourself gets turned against you and used to blind you to the abuses and fraud, to make you stay and give more money while you get nothing of value in return.

I think actor Jason Beghe said it very well in his interview with Mark Bunker after having left Scientology:
"You know, it's a funny thing in Scientology. You feel as though you're waking up to the truth or reality or what really is. But what you're doing is waking up to the reality of Scientology, which is not the actual reality. The reality which is the agreed-upon universe of what is."

Ms. Hoffman,

In May, 2000, the San Francisco Examiner carried an editorial on America's penchant for interfering with sovereign nations in their dealings with the Scientology business. It read in part:

===Begin Quote===
As the Germans continually explain, because of their historical experience in the 20th century, they are peculiarly sensitive to the presence of cults and extremist groups in their midst. This may seem shocking to Americans, for whom tolerance is a kind of religious doctrine, but it makes sense to Germans, who have suffered greatly for past sins.

For their part, the Scientologists have deployed all manner of crude propaganda in recent years, threatening critics and drawing parallels between the Hitler regime and legal restrictions on their cult. But the truth is that German regulations — which allow Scientologists to follow their leader, but bar them from government service — are designed to preserve German democracy, which cults like Scientology are likely to weaken.

Americans understand the value of freedom in the world, but they do not necessarily appreciate cultural distinctions. The Germans are probably better equipped to judge how best to nurture their free society than bureaucrats at the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative. Everyone in the world wants to be free, but not everybody yearns to be American.
- www(dot)apologeticsindex(dot)org/news/an200515(dot)html#4
===End Quote===

If you regard Scientology as another religion which deserves respect like any other religion, that is commendable. It speaks about the fact that so many Americans take Freedom of Religion very seriously and that is something to cherish.

However.

Scientology is not a religion.

It is a cult.

If this is a new concept to you, but are are interested in finding out if this hold any water, please go the following site: xenu-directory (dot) net.

The best bit of this site is the link: Scientology - Through the Door on the right hand of the screen.

It contains short testimonies of people about their experiences in Scientology. A few are very positive but (being a critical site) many are from ex-members.

If you read a couple of dozen stories, you will find that a very consistent picture emerges.

People often benefit from the early self-help courses, in particular the communication course and auditing (a form of regression therapy). However, many quit after a few years because the are put off by the high prices, the hard selling and the abuses that staff members have to undergo. Many have found out the 'good stuff' has been 'borrowed' and is readily available elsewhere.

Those who have stayed for a decade or longer, mostly leave the cult bankrupt and emotionally traumatized. They often underwent years of managements' abuses before they finally were able to leave.

One ex-member (Jeff Hawkins) put it this way:
"Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose. It was true. I had nothing left to lose. They had taken it all. So there was nothing more they could threaten me with, hold over my head. They no longer had any power over me, and, in an odd way, I was free of them at last."

I really hope you will take a few minutes to read this site. My apologies for putting this as a rhetorical question, but wouldn't you need to be aware about this in case friends or family members start looking for answers to life's questions outside of established religions?

PS I may have made grammar errors. Apologies, I am not a native speaker.

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

Germany thinks $cientology is a dangerous destructive €ult and is treating them as such. Makes perfect sense to me given the plethora of evidence that backs up the German position.

The question shouldn't be why are Germany holding this position and their current course of action - the question should be why has the American government not woken up to what has been operating under their noses for the past four decades.

"What is Germany so afraid of?"

Good question Claire. Now it is time for you to do your research and find out.

Perhaps we all should acknowledge that Germany has significant experience with Totalitarianism and therefore has some credibility in recognizing similar phenomenon in more modern times.

Here is a quote from an Order of the Guardian's Office (now renamed the Office of Special Affairs, essentially scientology's dirty tricks department):

"Guardian Order 060971" seized in FBI authorized search of Scientology headquarters:
"The vital targets on which we must invest most of our time are:
(T1) Depopularizing the enemy to the point of obliteration.
(T2) Taking over the control or allegiance of the heads or proprietors of all news media.
(T3) Taking over the control or allegiance of key political figures.
(T4) Taking over the control or allegiance of those who monitor international finance..."

Ms. Hoffman, your organization may wish to pay particular attention to point #2.

I think that Germany has had enough experience with super-race global domination groups to see the inherent danger of a criminal cult like scientology.

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It is ironic that this blurb about Scientology occurs in the "Under God" column. You see, Scientology has no belief in God....it is the first godless 501c3 "religion" in the United States.

Nazi German leaders were fascinated by the occult.
They led Germany into its most destructive period in history. They correctly see parallels to the "Church" of Scientology, and its hierarchical structure of the "Sea Org" (complete with officer uniforms" and dictatorial leader (David Miscavige, exposing his parishioners to blue asbestos on the Sea Orgs "Free winds" cruise ship; and his reported routine beatings of subordinates.)

A better question would be "Why does the US tolerate the human rights abuses of Scientology, and why did the IRS cave to their demands and grant them greater priviliges than other, longer established religions?"

Let us know what you find out about that.

'What is Germany Afraid of?'

It's not afraid of anything, what it won't tolerate is a totalitarian organisation that is a threat to its democracy, it's had one before, remember?

Germany is leading the way in Europe, the so called 'church of scientology' is not a religion, it's a pyramid scheme, a business, a CULT, and europe doesn't want them there, harassing critics, putting their own 'parishioners' in 'rehabilitation camps', and preying on the young the weak and the addicted with their quasi-cure-alls for the worlds ills.
Germany is not 'Afraid' , it's doing it's job for it's people, protecting them from an imported Cult.

Maybe the American government should be looking a little closer at the Enemy at their own door, the cult that co-erced their own IRS to give them a tax exemption that no other REAL religion qualifies for?

Before you write an article you should investigate the subject. This is something Claire Hoffman didn't do. The problem is not their religion but the organisation and their policies behind it.

Next time do some research, search the internet, ask question to ex-scientologists and ask questions why many church members became a freezoner.

www.youfoundthecard.com
all you need to know ;p

I've always considered Scientology to be dangerous rather than quirky, but many of the alleged abuses in the comments sound bizarre and outrageous.

Nevertheless, I feel it would be reasonable for Ms Hoffman to try and overlook the fact that so many comments are overly emotional and look into some of the sites suggested. If she were to do a follow-up piece based on that research, I for one would be very interested.

I mean, what if they are right?

'Checkered past' is putting it extremely lightly. This cult has killed, manipulated, robbed, and abused (sexually, verbally, physically) its members. Germany's got the right idea. They are trying to ban Scientology because it is a CULT that ruins people's lives. It's easy to find info on the internet these days about Scientology, but here are some helpful links:

xenu (dot)com
xenutv (dot)net
whyaretheydead (dot)net
youfoundthecard (dot)net
enturbulation (dot)org

Do you're research next time, or you fall right into their pockets.

A state has to protect its citizens. That s why Germany is looking after Scientology.

Imagine your child would say I am a Scientologist now. All I have to do is spend all my money to this organisation, seperate myself from my family and work 12 hours a day for free for the Sea Org, so I can walk on the bridge to hapiness.

Would you still call it freedom of religion, Mrs Hoffman?

Dawkins is right,

as soon as anybody or any organization attaches the 'Religion' sign it gets an extra bonus that it does not deserve.

There is no reason why it should, however.

Mrs. Hoffman, you are guilty, guilty of the sin of gullibility. That is a sin, these days.

From your very own 'On Religion' section:

Anglican
Atheist/Agnostic
Buddhist
Catholic
Christian
Earth-based Spirituality
Eastern Orthodox
Episcopal
Evangelical
Greek Orthodox
Hindu
Jewish
Mainline Protestant
Mormon
Muslim
Native American religions
Protestant
Quaker
Sikh
Taoist
Wiccan

Something missing?

You are either a scientologist or you didnt do any research on just dangerous and corrupt this criminal enterprise is I thought the wash post was a respectable paper

Miss Hoffman, did you do any research at all before writing this? I cannot believe how uninformed you are about this cult. Do you know about Operation Snow White? Operation Freakout? The German Government is absolutely doing the right thing.

If Scientology is "against the German constitution" then this constitution has not changed since 1934.

Is the Church of Scientology going to notify the past passengers of the Freewinds about the asbestos?

Germany has seen this picture before from another ruthless organization decades ago. (hint) This is why Germany and some other European countries are starting to see what Scientology really is. This is a mind control CULT whos interests are money and power. Google "Operation Snow White" or "Lisa McPherson" or more recently "blue asbestos & Freewinds"

Pay attention North America. There are good people in this "Church" who want to leave but are afraid.

Claire, you haven't done your homework.

But to answer your question, they are afraid that by hook or by crook the Scientologists will get some power and then, in keeping with their holy scripture, commit crimes that will make WW2 look like a bit of playground bullying. Look up Fair Game, Suppressive, Potential Trouble Source and Treason and see what you find.

If you want to replace Woodward and Bernstein as the most important journalists your newspaper has produced, go after Scientology the way they went after Richard Nixon. Keep your head down though.

"Unconstitutional" is putting it lightly. In my opinion, Scientology is a fascist and totalitarian ideology that exploits its own followers. Its leaders enjoy luxuries and privileges far removed from the conditions that rank and file Scientologists are subjected to.

Why does Scientology have its own intelligence agency, the "Office of Special Affairs"?
Why does the Church of Scientology perform interrogations with lie detectors on its own followers (called a "sec-check")?
Google "Project Normandy". Does this sound like something a Church would do?

What did L. Ron Hubbard say about democracy?
"...I don’t see that popular measures, self-abnegation and democracy have done anything for Man but push him further into the mud. Currently, popularity endorses degraded novels, self-abnegation has filled the Southeast Asian jungles with stone idols and corpses, and democracy has given us inflation and income tax."
from Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter Of 7 February 1965. Reissued 27 August 1980)

WOW,

You're gettin' flamed, guess you really dropped the ball here. Or are we all just "haters?"

This isn't he first artical you've written on this subject, or the first time you've done a fluff ball piece on the cult. You have a much more informed idea of what they're about. Only Scientologists are forbidden to research the Co$. Is that why you don't know anything about their attrocities?

Are you a member? Maybe you've been threatened by them? Either way, please tell the truth next time or turn in your journalistic integrity card!

Kaos

Scientology uses the same formula of promises used to build the Third Reich. Germans understand this, a ban is generous, they should be rounded up and deprogrammed.

I am disappointed with the Washington Post, I am aware of stories being killed about illicit relationships of Bush administration officials because just a telephone call.

The Washington Post has become part of the problem.
We need a real newspaper in Washington DC and I don't mean one run by the Moonies.

Millions around the world are coming aware of the ACTIONS the cults leader and his BUSINESS organization including the methods they are using on members that thus with time have become just more victims.

* What other religion requires you to sign a release from liability?

* What other religions' senior members were found guilty of infiltrating the offices of the U.S. Government and sent to prison?

* What other religion employs hundreds of private investigators to dig up dirt on their detractors?

* What other religion uses copyright laws and gangs of lawyers to keep their teachings secret?

* What other religion believes that 2% of the world population is "low on the tonal scale" and should be "put away quietly and without sorrow" - ie: killed off?

* What other business exploits workers on extreme low or NO pay in their Sea-Org Business alone!

They allow Tom Cruise to use his celebrity to recruit for this cult. Cruise uses his money also to support this cult. His work and the cult are indelibly linked, not severable. If Tom and his cult had their way, all those NOT IN the cult would be gotten rid of, killed off (the founders words) - Should we really allow thinking like that to be allowed with Tom Nutcase Cruise as their PR frontman?

The CULT operates as a BUSINESS. It very should be investigated.
Germans is 100% right and well done to them for forward and morally correct thinking. Long may it last.

SP Hall-California
RPF - Florida
These are some reasons why the U.S. should be concerned. I had NO idea these actions are tolerated by "established" religions.

whyaretheydead (dot)net
youfoundthecard (dot)net
enturbulation (dot)org

It's ironic the German government accuses Scientology of violating the constitution while at the same time refusing to hire Scientologists or depriving them of their jobs and not allowing them to join political parties based solely on their religious affiliation. I have to agree with Jeff. This is not the Constitution that was put in place after WW II to prevent just such intolerance and discrimination.

MAY 10 - BATTLETOAD EARTH

Once again, we will teach the world why the Co$ is a dangerous cult that needs to be changed or destroyed. Germany is doing the right things.

American is falling behind.

www.youfoundthecard.com

Have you looked into Operation Snow White to see why the Germans consider scientology to be subverting their constitution?

Let me ask you this; What group was responsible for the single largest infiltration of the US government? Hint: Not the Chinese or the Russians.

Can everybody READ THE RULES and stop using this forum for link promotion and marketing??? And I mean MARKETING because that is what these "Bob" and "Anne"s and "Chris"s are doing here, for the money and based on a marketing plan.

Stick to the article with your comments and stop abusing this comment section.

In Germany, due to our historical experience of Nazism and Communism, we are highly suspicious of any organization that uses psychological coercion and totalitarian methods of control.

It is especially disturbing when the writings of the organization's founder authorize mass killings.

"...any person from 2.0 down on the tone scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind…"
a quote from page 86 of Science of Survival, by L. Ron Hubbard.

"It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down…"
"There are only two answers…The first is to raise them on the tone scale…The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered…A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy... By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country."
quoted from page 100 of Science of Survival, by L. Ron Hubbard.

Ms. Hoffman,

Have you ever seen a thread of posts like this on the subject of religion? I think not. Some may rail about this eschatology or that doctrine when commenting on real religions, but isn't it clear that something's a tad different here?

It's not Hubbard's dubious "philosophy" that's causing the outrage, it's the totalitarian, mind-control machine that hides behind it.

The internet has made it impossible to hide the duplicitous nature of this organization. The intergalactic despot is out of the bottle—to mix metaphors—and he ain't goin' back in.

This article is not journalism.

I like to think journalists are paid for candor, too; society needs to know what could kill us, whether it's too many lies or too much pollution. Napoleon left instructions that he was not to be awakened if the news from the front were good; with good news, he told his secretary, there is no hurry. But if the news were bad, he said, "rouse me instantly, for then there is not a moment to be lost." Think of journalism as a kind of early warning system; iceberg spotting in the choppy waters of democracy. - Bill Moyers May 24, 2003

Robert et al. It's always a sound idea to check your facts before spewing. More than 25 years ago, all those responsible for the Operation Snow White activities were dismissed from staff, and an entire restructuring of the Church took place to prevent anything like this ever occuring again. Since it was well know that that is the case, I can only think those who post about it either do shallow research or have some other reason for bringing it up.

In your opening sentence you state, "Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."
I don't agree. Rather I wonder about the Church's treatment in the US.
Why do they have such a broad IRS tax exemption status that no other "religion" enjoys?
Their Freewinds ship was found to be contaminated with blue asbestos. The captain of the vessel admitted release of blue asbestos into the air handling systems on multiple previous occasions but no members of the crew or passengers were informed. No action was taken until shipyard workers in Curacao reported the problem. The Church of Scientology has known of this situation for decades and yet continued to use this vessel for their courses, potentially exposing thousands to the known carcinogen. Why has this information been ignored by the mainstream media in the US?
Why has the continued harassment of the church's detractors received such sparse press coverage? Evidence of their continued use of fair gaming, harassment, false charges, character assasination, intimidation and frivolous lawsuits are readily available on the www.
You ask what the German government is afraid of. The Church's founder teaches that two percent of the world's population should be disposed of "quietly and without sorrow". Deleting them suddenly would result in an "instant rise in the cultural tone" of society. Does this sound similar to "The Final Solution" to you? It does to me and likely it sounds that way to the German government.
No Claire, I don't "wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."
I wonder why a journalist for a major publication like yours is publishing puff pieces like this without having done one iota of research to answer the questions you pose in the article.
I wonder how you can claim to be aware of the "checkered past" and pay no attention to the extremely dubious present events surrounding this cult.

Dear Claire Hoffman,

As a german citizen who supports considering a ban on Scientology I'd like to answer to your points. You are wondering whether this wouldn't be extreme as you perceive Scientology to be a self-improvement religion with a checkered past.

In my opinion Scientology is not a religion. If you research how it started you would find, that Hubbard claimed it to be a scientific endeavour, that's why "Dianetics" was also called "The Science of the Mind". The entire human conception Scientology advertises treats human beings as a sort of machine, where the "bank" of reactive memories have to be "cleared" of engrams. Accordingly there is a "scientific" measurement for this process by an "e-meter". But it's of course Scientology's right to believe in bogus science and i couldn't care less about it. But I do care when democracy gets attacked on principle, when critics or former members speaking out get attacked and harassed and when there are working conditions in Scientology's elite organization Sea Org that laugh in the face of minimum wage.

And which religion on earth has its own intelligence agency? The "Office of Special Affairs", formerly the "Guardian Office".

L. Ron Hubbard's writings are obligatory for Scientologists and in a very important document named "Keeping Scientology Working" he had this to say about democracy:

"And I don't see that popular measures, self-
abnegation and democracy have done anything for man but push him further into the mud"

Another quote this is from HCO BULLETIN OF 23 JUNE 1960:

"And this: A nation or a state runs on the ability of its department heads, its governors or any other leaders. It is easy to get posts in such areas unless one has delusions of grandeur or fear of it. Don't bother to get elected. Get a job on the secretarial staff or the bodyguard"

Scientology agents infiltrated the US government ("Operation Snow White"), stole documents, created fake bomb threats against itself to get the author Paulette Cooper either imprisoned or into a mental institution ("Operation Freakout"). This is not a conspiracy theory but well documented in US court documents. You gloss over this by calling this a checkered past.

The "Fair Game" doctrine:

"ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

Is this execution of Freedom of Religion to DESTROY opponents or to misuse the legal system? These are not empty words but has also happened time and again. It was later supposedly cancelled, but at the bottom of the cancellation it says:

"This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP."

So the content hasn't changed

The working conditions in the Sea Org:

". From the age of 14, I had an official schedule starting at 8:00 a.m.and ending at 10:00 p.m., but regularly worked later, sometimes until 2 or 3 a.m. We got 30 minutes for lunch and 45 minutes for dinner and no other breaks. We regularly were ordered to work during part of our meal times. We sometimes got into trouble if we went to the canteen when it wasn't our mealtime. The schedule was 7 days a week, but we got Sunday morning to do our laundry and clean our rooms. On Saturday's we did labor work, consisting of renovations, etc. "

"Declaration of Astra Woodcraft", www(dot)exscientologykids(dot)com/astra2.html

I suggest you inform yourself as well about the existence of RPFs these are labor camps by Scientology. I also suggest to inform yourself a bit about the policy of disconnection and how it tears families apart. www(dot)exscientologykids(dot)com may be a good starting point for this.

In the United States of America Scientology has a tax-exempt status, which it gained outside of the normal process tax exempt status is being granted by the IRS. The USA never had dictatorships, germany had several in the last century. Maybe the US can afford to deal this way with Scientology, but as we've had different historic experiences we choose different roads.

I personally rather wonder about the stance of US authorities towards Scientology.

http://youtube.**com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

Please paste into Browser window, then Remove the 2-Stars (**) and hit enter!

Thus A N O N Y M O U S says, "$cientology" will be Destroyed!"

Dear Ms. Hoffman,
Thank you very much for the very rational and tolerant blog entry. It was a pleasure to read it!

@ Jeannie:

I'd like to start a religion.
That's where the money is.

L. Ron Hubbard

If you had bothered to google one-tenths of the sites that are mentioned in reply to your article, and had written an even-handed critique of the church, you would no doubt have found the private detectives going through your bins at 1 in the morning, perhaps to be woken later that day by a demo outside your home accusing you of being a religion hater and a nazi.

Which might have explained why it's redundant to claim Scientology has a checkered past. It has a very grubby present.

Jeanne,

Actually, the rules were rewritten in Scientology only to stop using the term "Fair Game" as it caused a negative opinion of the cult. The methods were never changed and are still very much in use today. Just as subtrefuge and dishonesty are encouraged. L. Ron himself said that Wogs (non-Scientologists) were not worthy of being told the truth.

Are ye Wog or are ye Thetan?

Kaos

The crux of this is to me, summed up in the fact that the author glosses over the questionable acts of scientology which is pretty necessary in order to get to the issue at hand in germany.

The issue here, is trust. Scientology is a fundamentalist religion. This is a word with some pretty negative associations to bombs and exploding people, but it reality it simply means this.

"Fundamentalism, in religion, refers to a belief in the infallibility, and literal interpretation, of a doctrine or holy book"

Now, in scientology you have documents and learning materials referred to as 'tech'. Tech is considered absolutely correct. It cannot be questioned, because it was written by the religions founder L RON HUBBARD. Tech exists for the most mundane of actions, such as washing a car. And it must be followed to the letter. The harm comes when you realise the extent of things which tech covers, and encourages. Fair game is a tech policy covering how to react to critics. There is a tech for lying called TR-L (training routine -lying).

This is necessary because after a certain level scientologists by necessity have to lie, a lot. Even more so now that much of scientologys teachings have been exposed on the internet. If a scientologist is asked about xenu, they lie and say its not real. Even though every single ex scientologist confirms its part of scientology, they still deny it. Same with the issue of scientologys compatability with other religions. Ask any scientologist and they will say totally compatible. You can be a christian and a scientologist, no problem. However if the person you spoke to was above scientology level ot3, they just lied to you, but its not a problem, because they are trained to do it. And they will lie to anyone in scientology below ot 3 just as easily, for their own good, because at their lower level, they could not handle the information. Why do they believe this.... its in the tech, and thus, is true.

It is this same kind of absolutle belief that may have put a lot of peoples lives at risk. In an interview regarding the presence of blue asbestos on scientology's ship the freewinds, it was said that the subject of blue asbestos on the ship was raised decades ago, and these concerns were squashed when it was determined that L RON HUBBARD had never said asbestos was dangerous. Therefore the cancer causing material would remain.

Even though science had absolutely proven the opposite, the fact that the 'tech' had not raised it as an issue allowed the justifications which may in the coming years lead to a barrage of slow lingering lung cancer deaths amongst high level scientologists. And that is the kind of danger absolute faith can create.

On the actual issue of scientologists not being allowed into government jobs, this may sound harsh. But scientologists have a compromising conflict of interest, in that they are bound by scientology to do whatever they are told. This is how the infiltration of hundreds of us government offices happened in the late 70's. Similarly the infiltration in greece some decades later. People will commit acts which are obviously crimes, just because someone higher up tells them to.

It is a chain of command, and in such a chain, you do not question your superior. And that is a system which is rigged for abuse. Scientology could be the greatest thing in the universe in theory, but when you set up a system of absolute unquestioning belief, under a banner of righteousness for motivation, unspeakable abuses may occur, and have if even one link high up in the chain is corrupt.

In military organisations and governments, such issues are address with oversight. Scientology has no such impartial mechanism, and by definition cannot internally.

Anonymous is acting as that needed oversight. It is the guy with the big foam finger, that is pointing to the issues like the asbestos contamination of the freewinds and saying , 'everyone look over here'.

But it's up to the media to pick up that ball and run with it. Though the name escapes me, some anon, on mailing or conversing with a government official in canada was told, 'well i didn't see it in the media' or something to that effect. Its sad, but that really is the way things are. Without exposure of these incidents, entire governments go on living in ignorant bliss about scientology.

While anonymous and old guard scientology critics can raise some internet awareness, the ball really is in the media's court to inform their nations governments or at least put things onto the radar.

Germans are afraid of totalitarian organizations that are out to take over the world.
nuf said.

You ask - what is Germany so afraid of?

Well.. start by googling

OPERATION SNOW WHITE, FAIR GAME, PAULETTE COOPER, GABE CAZARES, RPF, AZNARAN, ROBERT WELKOS.

Then ask yourself - What is Scientology so afraid of?

Dear Ms. Hoffman,

thanks for taking up this sore part of German current history.

In reading the other comments here it is obvious to me that intolerance and hatred against religions is not only a German problem. You Americans seem to have your share of organized anti-religionists (40 posts in several minutes, all with prepared hate speech). You might consider invoking this forum's rules.

Sincerely,
Gregor

Jeanne,

You mentioned that Operation Snow White is a long time ago (readers will find this a couple of comments below).

Fine. If you are interested in more recent abuses:

July 2007, Australia: A girl murders her family after being denied psychiatric drugs by Scientology.

December 2007: Dutch hitman Jesse R. arrested for at least 6 murders. He took inspiration from Scientology.

January 2008: French women is abducted by her Scientology brother, held hostage on Sardine for several weeks in appalable conditions before she is able to throw an SOS sign in the neighbors garden.

February 2008: Belgian officials raid Scientology office. Charges: fraud and extortion amongst several others.

March 2008: Norwegian girl Kaja Ballo commits suicide after taking the 'free stress test' which invariable tells you you are troubled and depressed, hoping you'll buy their courses.

March 2008: Jason Beghe, actor, blows the cult calling it a 'rip off' and 'destructive for the soul'.

April 2008: Jenny Miscaviage, the niece of the cult's authoritarian leader David Miscaviage tells about child labor and disconnection on ABC's Nightline.

May 2008: Dutch officials seal the Scientology ship Freewinds after asbestos is found. It is well documented (google Freewinds Woodcraft) that 21 Years ago church senior management was duly notified but refused to take action, exposing their members for decades.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but wouldn't you say a pattern emerges???

I'll take Scientologists seriously on the issue of 'hate speech' when

a) they stop calling even the most mildest criticism of their organisation 'hate speech'

b) they explain how asking someone to google Paulette Cooper or Lisa McPherson is 'hate speech'

and

c) they lobby their leadership to remove racially derogatory terms from Dianetics.

@ Gregor

Intolerance towards religion is one thing. Tolerance for criminal organizations is another.

Gregor:"
..."you Americans seem to have your share of organized anti-religionists (40 posts in several minutes, all with prepared hate speech)."

I'd like to know where in this thread was any 'hate speech' with respect to religion.

Tell me about it.

This is about the actions of an anti-democratic organization that attaches itself the 'Religion' tag and thus gets away with all kind of fascistic activities.

Period.

For a few moments, Claire, just for a bit, lets forget all of the facts and references in the many comments I see arrayed below. There are endless hours of checking you can follow up with if you wish.

Lets just talk about some basic questions.

--Can something be defended simply because its claimed as a religious duty? Is it protected because someone claims its a religious duty?

Lying, manipulation, organized harassment, and physical opposition are ALL religious duties of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard said it HIMSELF when he spoke about Fair Game, Suppressive Persons, Dead Agenting, and other goodies you can follow all the references to.

--Can responsibility and questions be avoided because something is framed as "religion"?

Lets use our good buddy Tom Cruise as an example. Every deflection he does when questioned falls back on things being personal religious beliefs. If he attacks Psychiatry? Personal religious belief. He talks about SPs? Personal religious beliefs. etc. But the step beyond that is that his handlers won't allow him to be questioned about where the money he gives to the CoS goes, and what its used for. Nor, as I'm sure you know, will he answer questions about being close personal buddies with David Miscavige. Tell me, is that proper religious behavior? Does ANYTHING about that strike you as peculiar? Aren't questions about what charity donations are spent on usually appropriate? As are questions about being close personal buddies with controversial figures? Do those CHANGE if you happen to be a Scientologist?

It doesn't fit. None of it does. Religions don't work this way ever. Cults do. If religious obligations go FAR beyond the bounds of the law and/or common public morality, featuring violations like children working hard labor, children AND adults working 14-15 hour workdays in dismal conditions for little to no pay (Sea Org--look it up), obligations to have abortions, obligations to shun/disconnect people simply on the say so of a church official, etc. do we DARE call it a Church instead of a cult?

Tell me, was David Koresh a Church leader or a Cult leader? David Miscavige is more cunning, far less "locked in a bunker with his guns", but other parts of his agenda are identical to Koresh's. Is Rev. Moon a Church leader or a Cult Leader? How about those Mormon extremists in Texas? Where's the line?

Also, as has been mentioned elsewhere, go Google news search "Freewinds". And then tell us what kind of church KNOWS about asbestos and neglects to do something about it because their leader was convinced that cancer could ONLY be caused by perverted sex acts. Oh, you didn't know that? That's what L. Ron believed, and the Church STILL believes.

Dear Gregor,

you may want to discuss german history with my grandparents if you like i´m sure they can tell you a little bit about totalitarian regimes. Well they taught me all i need to know to recognize one when i see one, and instead of calling my comments prepared hatespeech and complaining, how about a constructive discussion, so you can see it´s not just prepared stuff. Even though i´m no native speaker maybe you can try to explain me how i should understand something like this...

L. Ron Hubbard teaches that two percent of the world's population should be disposed of "quietly and without sorrow" sorry but regarding my cultural background i can´t but think of something we know to well here in germany so maybe you or anyone who disagrees with the goverment i voted for can kindly explain something like that to me.

This is very lazy work, Claire. Just because it is a blog about matters of faith is no excuse, especially when writing about an organisation that has harmed so many people as a result of its systemic human rights abuses.

If nothing else, you ought to have spent half an hour seeking an answer to your own question: "What is Germany so afraid of?"

Read this report if you will: http://www.stmi.bayern.de/imperia/md/content/stmi/sicherheit/verfassungsschutz/scientology/system_so_engl.pdf

And, please, pull your socks up.

Scientology is a totalitarian alien cult bent on 'Clearing the Planet'. Hubbard wrote, 2.5 percent are "truly dangerous." Such people, Hubbard wrote, "should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind... " This 2.5 percent cannot be cleared and must be disposed of by ANY MEANS NECESSARY. You shouldn't have to wonder why Germany wants them stopped.

The author needs to do some serious research. This is a master race cult that needs to be stopped.

I never commented on the Washington Post but it still seems very familiar. That must be because of all the stereotypes here! Or better said: hello you 3 or 4 Anonymous guys trying to appear a couple of dozens!

Having said that, I must congratulate Ms. Hoffman for her unbiased approach to the subject Scientology & Germany. Fasten your seatbelts, you now got on the focus of hate campaigners now who just can't have it if something is not purely evil about Scientology. Anonymous is known for all kinds of things, like death and bomb threats or just prank calls. You might even get some unwanted pizza delivery today or someone rents a graveyard plot for you or some other nice "prank". You will get used to it, don't worry, it's just that their intellectual level does not go beyond "copy & paste" of pre-written propaganda. Most of them are otherwise harmless.

Oh, and for some real answers, here is my share of listing links:

scientology dot org
scientology-religion dot de (German)
scientologymyths dot info

Checkered past? I would say that the largest government infiltration in the history of the United States, along with framing author Paulette Cooper for making bomb threats as well as countless other cases of fair game warrants a stronger word than checkered.

I would further think that the word "past" in this sentence is misleading.

The only thing that could be have a more checkered present than this organisation is a young boy in czechslovakia who has just receieved a game of draughts, a check shirt and a picture of Nixon's dog from his father on december the 25th, all items having been paid for by cheque.

Sammy,

I think all these valid arguments are a waste of time.

Mrs. Hoffman obviously has assembled this 'treatise' during her morning coffee break (5 minutes). Unreflected, non-researched, left-over-thoughts.

Practically it is: nothing.

Wasted.

You really do not have to wonder about the church's treatment by Germany when you look at all the horrible crimes the cult has committed. Infiltrating the US goverment, cutting families to shreds, hiring PI's to follow and harass anyone who speaks out against the cult, and all the lawsuits, just to name a few of their crimes.

ban it. scientology is an intelligence operation and scam against its victims.

Luana,

RIGHT! All those thousands of ex members who don't know one another all came up with the same lies of abuse at the hands of this helpful and generous church...

I know as a Scientologist you are not allowed to do any objective research into the Co$, but please don't think the rest of us are fools. Just because you want to be the fish on David Miscaviges line, don't think everyone wants to jump at that chance!

You're a member of a dangerous and evil cult. I'm not saying that many of you don't have wonderful intentions, you do. But the leaders of your "church" care nothing about you or humanity. PERIOD!

Kaos

More Ad Hominem attacks

When will you learn that attacking the messenger doesn't make the message wrong. Look into the info for yourself... from a non-Scientology source. (Of course, they are just a bunch of Wogs and SPs after all)

How's your stats Luana?

Scientology has a long track record of harassing critics, ex members and current members who are thinking about leaving. People have committed suicide due to the extreme harassment they've received from this so called "church" and others have died from suspicious circumstances. When one takes into consideration Germany's past, it makes total sense for their government to try and stamp out any organization that attempts to control others through such tactics. German citizens are well aware of what happens when someone offers answers and solutions to their problems and have no qualms of getting rid of people who stand in their way.

luana, washington post might be familiar to you for breaking water gate, etc. it's surprising such a shoddy, ill-informed opinion piece would appear under its title. clearly the author has not looked into the subject, or is a paid agitator.

If someone starts The Church of Neo-Nazism, will his right to believe in white supremacy be defended as the Scientology and its crimes are defended in this article?

I for one think this "religion" is nothing short of a Nigerian money hustling racket. Its all about the money! SHOW ME THE MONEY, or down the road with ya....is $cientology's secret motto. I feel sorry for all the people that have spent their lifes saving's and all they get in return is nothing.

Why is it so hard for people to believe that scientology IS, infact a cult, especially in the US? Well, for once people dont expect it to be. Why? Becouse people were never taught to be wary of anty-democratic groups within the country, the expect the dictatorship to be outside of our borders. The truth is, Scientology is a state within the state, with its own millitary (the sea org), and its own secret police (the Office of Special Affairs, or OSA) and with its own dictator- David Miscavidge. Germany is simply more addept at seeing these kinds of inner threats.

Why is it so hard for people to believe that scientology IS, infact a cult, especially in the US? Well, for once people dont expect it to be. Why? Becouse people were never taught to be wary of anty-democratic groups within the country, the expect the dictatorship to be outside of our borders. The truth is, Scientology is a state within the state, with its own millitary (the sea org), and its own secret police (the Office of Special Affairs, or OSA) and with its own dictator- David Miscavidge. Germany is simply more addept at seeing these kinds of inner threats.

The fact is, Germany bans certain kinds of organizations, (like Nazis, for good reason,) and keeping an eye on Scientology there, well, I don't presume it's about the *religion,* but rather about the *organization:* and in fact, it's not hard to see that the stated goals and organizational history of Scientology are in fact incompatible with that Constitution.

Scientology just crosses certain lines, which makes it pretty hard to sympathize with them on matters like this.

Having already been under one regime with an occult belief in creating a "master race," and seeing the results, it's not surprising that Germany is moving to ban Scientology.

"Clear" Scientologists, i.e. people who have spent enough money on courses, are not homo sapiens. They are "homo novis."

"HOMO NOVIS, 1. Homo man, novis new. (BCR, p. 12) 2 . a theta-animated mest body possesed of new and desirable attributes; a mest clear, a good, sane rational mest being about a skycraper higher than Homo sapiens. (HOM, p. 40) 3 . the Second Stage Release is definitely Homo novis. The person ceases to respond like Homo sapiens and has fantastic capability to learn and act. (HCOB 28 Jun 65)
— L. Ron Hubbard
Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary"

This master race does not get diseases, can fly, can kill people with their minds, and are on a mission to "clear the planet" and turn everyone else into a homo novis. See Scientology OT Levels 3-8 documentation, leaked on Wikileaks. Also here:

"This article is from the Scientology Catechism, by scninfo@pcnet.com (Scientology Information Server) with numerous contributions by others.

6.10 What does "clear the planet" mean?

It means that Scientologists want to clear the planet of insanity, war and crime, and in its place create a civilization in which sanity and peace exist. In order to do this, they must help individuals become clear of their own individual insanities and regain awareness that they are basically good."

Sounds good, right? Make everyone happy? Of course that involves eliminating all other religions, which are just false realities created by indoctrination by the evil alien Lord Xenu 75 million years ago (Called Event 2, see OT III documentation on Xenu.net).

And if someone stands in their way?

"ENEMY. SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the
Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed. - L. RON HUBBARD, Copyright (c) 1967 "

Plenty of people have been tricked, lied to, and "destroyed." Scientologists have been implicated in the deaths of Lisa MacPherson (whyaretheydead.net) and the suicides of multiple Scientologists, as well as the murder of family members of Scientologists who were classified dangerous schizophrenics and denied their psychiatric medication because Scientology believes Psychiatrists are evil, their medicine is meant to kill people, and PSYCHIATRY CAUSED THE HOLOCAUST.

No joke.

"It is cold, hard documented fact that German psychiatrists devised the "scientific" justification for euthanasia before World War II, before even Hitler came to power. It is also a documented fact that they established the gas chambers and killing centers in the concentration camps and trained and apprenticed others on how to kill. This is documented from psychiatry's own words and documents."

- CCHR (Scientology-backed group) website, owned and run entirely by Scientologists.

Germany has a problem with this. So does Norway, where a Parliament member's daughter recently jumped out a window after taking a free Scientology personality test, and Belgium, where their organization has been charged with fraud.

The real question is: Why don't we have a problem?

Gee Luana,

I didn't see any mention of the Freewinds and its insignificant little asbestos problem on your blog. Hope you never traveled or studied on it. But then you'd have to associate with SPs before cancer could be a factor, huh?

Luana's Haven my keister. Hope you didn't tell the Co$ all your secrets, they'll just use them against you later!

A checkered past....

What else is there to judge on?

You're aware of those issues, Claire? Then how do you reconcile that? I mean aren't those transgressions EXACTLY in violation of the constitution? Seems like a no-brainer.

In relation to the posters declairing all the opposing viewpoints to Scientology "Hate Speech"

It is very sad when people believe that carefully constructed criticism is hate speech against a religion. If I were to pass comment that "The Catholic Church was very ineffectual in addressing the past transgressions of some of its clergy in relation to the sexual abuse of minors within its parishes and needs to reconsider its stance on birth control in the light of Sexually transmitted diseases" or "While the religion of Islam is a religion is founded on peace and goodwill towards all, it should consider re-addressing some of its doctrine and regarding the treatment of the female members in a modern society and addressing the issue of members taking misguided actions that hurt other people, that they claim is under the banner of Islam". Would that make me a person who is critical of a religious movement, or a sectarian bigot?

Now, if I say that "Some of the current policies within Scientology are harmful and self-destructive towards its members and its policy of fixed donations in exchange for religious doctrine is taking advantage of members seeking only to spiritually better themselves". Would that make me a religious bigot towards Scientology?

If the German government believes that Scientology is a harmful to their social and economic structure after researching and discussing the issue, they should be allowed express that viewpoint. As should any person who holds a critical view of Scientology

In fact, the very notion of Scientology declaring all critical speech as a "hate crime" is an insult to the Jewish citizens in Germany affected by the Holocaust. The people in Northern Ireland who died, simply because of their beliefs were not of another faith. Genocides have occurred simply because of sectarian beliefs. Scientology has never had members killed, persecuted or socially ostracized because of their faith and they should be very thankful that they never will suffer to the extremes some people have for the sake of religion and should seriously re-consider its use of language when addressing criticism.

Hee, Luana -- 3 or 4 Anonymous guys? You seriously have no idea...

Though if it actually IS true that you genuinely DON'T have any idea, I cordially invite you to attend/observe/stare at the upcoming protest. You'll know us -- we're the people handing out leaflets, wearing disguises and hugging people. We're all also VERY versed in Scientology and the Church's misdeeds, so please do strike up a conversation!

Just come with an open mind and follow Hubbard's ABCs, you'll be fine.

HUGS!

Jeanne wrote:
"More than 25 years ago, all those responsible for the Operation Snow White activities were dismissed from staff".
Actually, I don't think this is true. "All those responsible" is fundamentally different than "all those found guilty". L Ron Hubbard wasn't dismissed from staff. One of those found guilty and sent to prison was his wife! Are you saying L Ron Hubbard had no knowledge of the actions of his wife that took place over the course of years? I'm not buying that. It's not plausible.

Jeanne wrote:
"an entire restructuring of the Church took place to prevent anything like this ever occuring again"
Renaming the Guardian Org to OSA doesn't constitute "an entire restructuring". What policies of L Ron Hubbard were changed?

Jeanne wrote:
"I can only think those who post about it either do shallow research or have some other reason for bringing it up."
She stopped just short of asking "What are your crimes?" though the essence is in this last sentence. Scientologists are taught that anyone who feels negatively about their organization is a criminal. "In case we are attacked by somebody or something or some organization on a vulnerable point, then find enough threatening material against them, or manufacture it," L Ron Hubbard 1960. Once the threatening material is found or manufactured, it is used to create ad hominem arguments against the person speaking against the "church". While Jeanne's first two comments are disingenuous, at best. Her last is a classic, veiled ad hom attack on detractors.

Church of Scientology slanders its critics and doesn't afraid to lie about anything.

Their doctrine is to lie to non-scientologists about what its doctrine really is. Think about that.

Xenu, spaceships, alien ghosts. C'mon man.

"You will get used to it, don't worry, it's just that their intellectual level does not go beyond "copy & paste" of pre-written propaganda. Most of them are otherwise harmless."

Haha, ok OSA :) You mean like Scientologies websites, with the same inanae drivel written over and over and over? Or the lies you try to push on youtube over and over and over? Yep, we are pretty "harmless" - so much so that we have caused 90% of the Scientology centers to close on our protest days because they are unable to counter the truth that is spoken and passed out in pamphlets at the protests. Poor brainwashed cultie. I like how you point people to your own propaganda sites like "scientologymyths" and such - talk about copy and paste, mm?

Germany, more than any country on earth, have every right to be sensitive and aware of anything that smacks of a totalitarian organization (with it's own secret police force - OSA - and concentration camps), and they are absolutely right to ban Scientology, the biggest non-religion and scam ever seen in modern times.

How's your stats today Gregor? Thursday is right around the corner, lol.

I'll tell you what the German Government is afraid of. They have seen all this before in the 1930s and 1940s up to the end of the second world war. The way Scientology operates is so similar to the way a certain individual came to power and they are going to make damned sure it doesn't happen again.

Luana: Do you even care that people may be afflicted with mesothelioma from being on the Freewinds? Do you think it is just a "wog"/"Suppressive" lie?

Even if you think I am full of crap, please, if you have been on the Freewinds, please get yourself checked for signs of mesothelioma.

The management has covered up the presence of blue asbestos for years! I as a concerned person feel that members of the organization should know that they may have been afflicted from their stay onboard.

So Luana, will you dismiss this? Will you check into it? Do you tune me out because I disagree with Scientology? But what is the price of tuning it out?

Luana claims that Scientology critics are the type who rent graveyard plots in your name as part of their insidious campaign of harassment against poor long suffering cultists.

Google ROBERT WELKOS. Read the first article. He's the LA Times journalist harassed and fair gamed by the Church in the 1980s.

Funnily enough, someone tried to interest him in a grave plot.

And then came the rest... threats, crank calls, everything you're now whining about.

Irony, eh?

First and foremost, it is wonderful to see a mention of Scientology in The Washington Post. Secondmost, I hope to see it again, but under much more careful scrutiny.

I understand that the nature of this piece was to remain a reflection, and bring up questions rather than carefully researched answers. That is the next step.

I urge you to make your own decisions and opinions, Ms. Claire Hoffman. The Internet is a great resource, but also can be cluttered. Perhaps speaking with current as well as former Scientologists could yield more concrete answers. Supporters and critics alike can create a well-balanced piece. That is what we the Public need the media to do. We need to be informed.

Thank for you posing these questions out there, I eagerly await another installment.

And on a more historical note, to answer some of the questions posed in this piece: Germany has without a doubt dealt with one of the most widely prominent, violent and impactful regimes in its past. Adolf Hitler managed to come into power when all his intentions were widely published and therefore easily known ("Mein Kampf") - yet he was still able to do it. It is an example of a historical figurehead arriving at just the right moment at just the right time, and taking advantage of the circumstances. Millions paid their lives for it, and even a mention of the word "Nazi" riles German authorities today. Rightly so.

In all honesty, that may be where the German government is coming from, regardless of whether or the Scientology is truely a dangerous cult - I will tell you that I think it is. It's all in the history, Ms. Hoffman!

I will need to get my own printed copy of the Post today. Or will this not be printed?

Indeed, Graveyard Dog.

Also another journalist was sent a bullet in the mail, harrassed by phone call and other such things after he wrote a critical story.

ok, Claire Hoffman, you asked for this. So here it is, point by point.

>Whatever you think about Scientology, you have >to wonder about the Church's treatment by the >German state.

Most people consider Scientology a wacko cult. Take a public survey on this if you dont believe me. The German government is obligated to protect its citizens from dangerous ideologies.

>In December, Germany's interior ministers said >they considered the religion to be "not >compatible with the constitution."

I think if you look into it, they never called it a religion, these are your words. And yes, the German constitution protects the sovereignty of the individual. Hypnotism masquerading as psychotherapeutic self-help in incompatible.

>Yesterday, an AP story reported that the German >Scientologists have dropped a legal battle to >keep the country's intelligence services from >monitoring its activities. What is Germany so >afraid of?

Dangerous dehumanizing ideologies.

>The Church of Scientology has long battled to >end the surveillance, saying it is an abuse of >freedom of religion, and the U.S. State >Department regularly criticizes Germany for the >practice in its annual Human Rights Report.

It is not recognized as a religion.

>Ban Scientology? Doesn't that seem kind of >extreme?

Compared to Scientology's practices? No. Scientology puts people in gugalgs they call RPF, Scientology separates children from parents and parents from each other in violation of the UN Charter on the Family, Scientology tells its members to commit suicide if they are perceived as dangerous to Scientology PR efforts. Scientology also has a history and pattern, indeed even a doctrine, of infiltrating national governments, lying to courts and law enforcement and covering up the deaths that occur because of Scientology.

>Tey are a religion largely focused on self->imrovement.

No they aren't, Claire. Dianetics was promoted as a self-help therapy, but if you read the history from a disinterested POV you'll find even before Scientology emerged from Dianetics as a way to circumvent the US tax code as a religion free from taxation, Dianetics was solely about income, about taking money from suckers.

>While I'm well aware of their checkered past,

Claire, you're not. Either you're not, or you are lying.

>decrying it unconstitutional seems like a >threatened position to take by a nation.

Read the German constitution.

lulz self improvment

other religons offer this too

for free

with scientology

it comes with a fee

scientology is not a church becuase it charges for it's text,confessionals, and sermons. it them makes commition on those products up for sale.

SCIENTOLOGY IS A BUISNESS AND SHOULD TAX ACCORDINGLY

www.xenu.net for more info

MAY 10TH

lulz self improvment

other religons offer this too

for free

with scientology

it comes with a fee

scientology is not a church becuase it charges for it's text,confessionals, and sermons. it them makes commition on those products up for sale.

SCIENTOLOGY IS A BUISNESS AND SHOULD TAX ACCORDINGLY

www.xenu.net for more info

MAY 10TH

They are sensible enough to know that nothing good can come from allowing Scientology in their country. It isn't a real religion. The followers don't believe in God, they believe that they themselves are Gods and all kinds of science fiction nonsense about a race from other planets, etc. etc.
L. Ron Hubbard founded the "Church" as a tax shelter. There are no scriptures, no mention of any beliefs and very sketchy mind control tactics. So why would Germany believe that letting Scientology into their country is a good thing? Who needs another cult?

You've got a lot of reading and learning to do Claire Hoffman.

Dear Claire,

Here in Europe we are aware of the pain that wolves under sheep hides can bring to a country. Just labelling oneself as a religion doesn't mean it has to receive such treatment - proper scrutiy has led several european countries not only to deny scientology status but also to prosecute them for their crimes (such is the case of the belgian branch of the cult, currently undergoing several trials).

I wonder if writing to the management or editorial departments of The Washington Post might be more effective in getting a proper, factual artical written about Scientology. They opened the door by allowing this propaganda to be printed in their supposedly investigative paper. This isn't the Washington Post of Woodward and Bernstein!

Kaos

1.) The Church of Scientology is commercial in nature.

2.) There is no deity involved in Scientology.

3.) Policy available through documents made public by legal proceedings AFTER THEY INFILTRATED THE US GOVERNMENT outline that Scientology routinely practices surveillance extortion and intimidation to silence critics.

Beyond the effort of your piece to sublime the issue into the ephemeral realm of the subjective, the above facts cannot be refuted.

There is no question why Germany, with its history of totalitarian infiltration is bothered by this organization.

The CoS trolls on this board cannot refute this.

The criticisms I see leveled at Scientology here apply equally well to any religion.

In what way is Scientology more dangerous than other religions? It has certainly not demonstrated its danger as convincingly as any of 5 major world religions.

Religion is a symptom of human weakness. We rely on our imaginations to compensate for our fears, but religions take pretending WAY too far. Scientology is no worse than the rest, just newer. The rest of you "faith" people might as well scoot over and make room for one more group of dimwits ready to sacrifice their critical faculties for the false satisfaction that comes with an unending commitment to a set of fictional ideas.

Waiters said:

"Why is it so hard for people to believe that scientology IS, infact a cult, especially in the US? Well, for once people dont expect it to be. Why? Becouse people were never taught to be wary of anty-democratic groups within the country"

Actually Waiters, I think its so hard for people to believe that Scientology is a cult largely because Celebrities belong to it. And since they are "our heroes" and "gasp! They'd never belong to anything like THAT" people are willing to suspend disbelief to an incredible extent.

Hubbard foresaw this. He knew that drafting Celebs was vital to give him a layer of protection against public skepticism. And THAT part of his plan worked just fine.

The criticisms I see leveled at Scientology here apply equally well to any religion.

In what way is Scientology more dangerous than other religions? It has certainly not demonstrated its danger as convincingly as any of 5 major world religions.

Religion is a symptom of human weakness. We rely on our imaginations to compensate for our fears, but religions take pretending WAY too far. Scientology is no worse than the rest, just newer. The rest of you "faith" people might as well scoot over and make room for one more group of dimwits ready to sacrifice their critical faculties for the false satisfaction that comes with an unending commitment to a set of fictional ideas.

Dear Miss Hoffman,

Since you appear to be quite the religious one, I believe it would greatly behoove you to learn and understand Ron L. Hubbard's and scientology's true position on God, Jesus--and figures of other world religions. When you understand this, you will understand why scientology does not deserve to be called a religion, why scientology has nothing to do with God, why scientology does not have "Churches", and you will understand why Germany's stance on scientology righteous, throughout.

Fore example, did you know that while scientology says that their belief system is compatible with those of other religions, that once you're well on their path to "enlightenment", known as the "Bridge to Total Freedom", you as a scientologist, will learn that Jesus, and all of the other Biblical themes (as well as Buddha etc.) were psychically implanted into YOUR spirit by a group of evil psychiatrist overlords some 75 million years ago?

Now, while I'm no clergyman or biblical scholar, as a faithful Christian, I don't see how this assertion is compatible with Christianity, or indeed any other religion. How can an institution dreamed up by a delusional, manipulative science fiction writer, who's claims are refuted by all scientific evidence grow to be called a religion?

You need to understand that scientology does not help people do anything but rid themselves of pesky things such as money, and free will... And the only way you will learn such things is to thoroughly research the subject on your own.

By all means, look at both sides, ask questions of both sides, and come to your conclusion. You'll find that if you ask scientology all the questions in the world, you will only be delivered fluff answers, with NO SUBSTANCE. Ask a scientologist what scientology is about. They'll say it's about helping people, and that's it's great and everything.

You will never get an answer of substance, and this is because they believe that a psychic self-destruct code of sorts was implanted by the psychiatrists, in a similar fashion as to how the images of Christ were implanted, and that if you learn the "truth" before these implants are cleared, your body will self-destruct and you'll soon die of pneumonia or other horrible disease.

Walk into a church and ask a Christian what they believe, and you'll get a straight answer. Ask a Muslim, you get a straight answer, and so on. What does that tell you? What do they have to hide? Figure it out, and then come back here and tell us what you learned.

CONFUSED: it is more dangerous at the present time. Christianity has finished its crusades and suicide martyrdoms long ago. Islam is focused on the dar el salaam as a geopolitical bloc. judaism isnt and wasnt a warring religion now for thousands of years. buddhist sectarianism has calmed down somewhat. scientology is based on the imagination of one dead man and the reality tunnel being pressed onto scientologists is really narrow. read more about it at numerous websites, the danger is real.

what bacconator said

"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'. By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not." - L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 4 Jan 1966

***

"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the tone scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints." - L. Ron Hubbard, "Science of Survival"

(Note: Among other groups, this relates to people openly critical of Scientology and psychiatrists)

***

"The goal of the department is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by high-level ability to control and in its absence by low-level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies." - L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 15 Aug 1960, "Department of Governmental Affairs"

---

This is just a small sample of Scientologists' core beliefs and policies that I slapped together for you. I'm sure you will find much more with a simple search in Google or a visit to xenu (dot) net.

Now about why the German Bundesverfassungsschutz might find a reason to investigate Scientology and why several Ministers of the Interior of German federal states propose a ban on this organization, here are some quotes from the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany:

* Art 1
(1) Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority
(2) The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world.

* Art 9
(2) Associations whose aims or activities contravene the criminal laws, or
that are directed against the constitutional order or the concept of international understanding, shall be prohibited.

The Scientology Organization is in many ways directly contradictory to the Free Democratic Basic Order of Germany and these examples don't cover the full extent of this by a long mile.

But don't take my word for it; read what the Ministry of the Interior of Bavaria has to say about Scientology and look for yourself how deep this rabbid hole really goes:

http://www.stmi.bayern.de/imperia/md/content/stmi/sicherheit/verfassungsschutz/scientology/system_so_engl.pdf

"The criticisms I see leveled at Scientology here apply equally well to any religion."

jewish equivalent to fair game policy?
buddhist equivalent to GO/OSA?
christian equivalent to RPFs?
islamic equivalent to the ethics department?

"In what way is Scientology more dangerous than other religions? It has certainly not demonstrated its danger as convincingly as any of 5 major world religions."

I disagree with your last point. Scientology is more dangerours than genuine religions in that it has explicit programs to infiltrate governments and businesses. Granted, it didn't produce anything like the crusades or islamic fanaticism, but that's no argument that nothing should be done about the things it is responsible for.

Confused,

Let's see, what other "religion" forces abortions on parishioners? Especially when those parishioners are forced to work 15 or more hours a day, 7 days each week and every week of every year. Even the 6 year olds are forced into this slavery and they are sometimes allowed to see their parents as much as once weekly for 1/2 hour at a time.

Oh, and then there's the problem with forcing believers to disconnect from any and all family and friends who don't agree with Scientology's teachings.

What about all the deaths attributed to this "church?" If you're not a Scientologist then you can google names like Lisa McPherson, Elle Perkins or even the founder's son, Quentin Hubbard. And there are dozens more.

But heck, what church doesn't follow all those practices?

I must admit, that after reading this article and it's replies, that I'm a little confused.

I'll explain why.

I've heard about this covert war that a group of internet hacktivists have been having against the Church of Scientology, but I've always seen them as a harmless- if a little strange- religion. Now, I'm not the sort of man who jumps into either side of the fray quickly or easily, but having researched both sides of the argument, following the links provided by both sides, i'll give you my thoughts on the type of information provided by each side.

On the side of scientology, I find a very pleasant series of websites, with easy to follow links and information that seems to support the argument that they are just a genuinely nice group of people trying to help the world. However, it absolutely smacks of propaganda, any citations or corroborative evidence is extremely tenuous at best, or even seemingly fabricated- in short it insults my intelligence. You encourage people to 'read about scientology'- but you charge money for your most basic scripture 'dianetics'. Why should I pay YOU for something to help you defend yourself against accusations that your ideology and your actions are heinous? It doesn't sit right with me.

On the side of Anonymous, your information is far harder to read through, it's very confronting, and while extremely shocking, even if a third of it is accurate information (and unlike the scientologist's actually corroborated with tenable and valid evidence like court records) it casts a very dark shadow on the whole nature of scientology.

I have to say to you, Ms Hoffman, that I am appalled at your lack of research. It took me half an hour to read both sides of the argument and form an opinion based on facts given and evidenced- and not on simple beliefs and altruistic hearsay. I think that the german government has every right to be afraid of the possible effects that Scientology has on it's citizens, and I think that we should also be afraid of the effects here.

That said, if this fair game policy is true, I won't be taking any part in the demonstrations and such, but I will give out my vote of support to Anonymous.

May god bless you.

Loc.

Storge:

Maybe you and I are reading different papers. I can't think of a single major violent episode involving Scientology - but I think that Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam are all sponsors of violence in the modern context. Many current global conflicts have important religious aspects. That is to say that even if religion is not the avowed purpose of the war, sides are chosen along religious lines.

To provide a relevant domestic example, much discussion regarding the "War on Terror" uses religous language to condemn "Islamic Fundamentalism."

Jeanne:

I can guarantee you that the German Bundesverfassungsschutz does not do shoddy research.

As for your comment about Germany denying Scientologists jobs in government. Let me ask you this, would you let the fox guard the hen house. I mean, if you would you are welcome to, but I and many other would rather not.

And maybe you forgot to read all the other comments where Germany is not the only European country having an issue with scientology.

Confused,

Yes you are! Do a bit of googling and then get back to us...

"Jeanne:

It's ironic the German government accuses Scientology of violating the constitution while at the same time refusing to hire Scientologists or depriving them of their jobs and not allowing them to join political parties based solely on their religious affiliation."

Aah the typical nonsense! I work in a government agency with the staus of "Beamter" which means that in return for live long job safety I give some of my rights to the state and I have to be 100% loyal to the constition. If I violate my workplace with proselytizing or trying to sell something (may it be insurances or Scientology courses) I can be fired. To avoid this at some agency's (where you need a security clearance) you have to sign a paper that says that you won't apply Scientology tech at the workplace. If you do sign that welcome on the job. But your personal believes have to stay at home! Also some contractors who don't want Scientology brainwashing in their companies let their business partners sign this paper. If you don't sign they won't do business with you and it is their freedom of choice to do so! Believe what you want at home or live with the choice of others who disagree with your methods! This is a secular country.

As for political parties not the government decides who may join them but the parties themselves and it is in their right to do so. Get your facts straight.

This country has seen one of the most devastating wars about religion in history. Killing more than 30% percent of the population in some areas even 66%. Germans call this the "30year war" the dutch the "80year war".
Germany has seen a two totalitarian regimes in the last century. The Nazis and the Communists in East-germany. The last regime ended not 20 years ago and only by chance there wasn't another Tienanmen- Massaker in Leipzig or East-Berlin.

"I have to agree with Jeff. This is not the Constitution that was put in place after WW II to prevent just such intolerance and discrimination."

LOL The constitution was also made to prevent another 1933 and only 6 (in 1956) years after it was introduced the communist party was forbidden (there was also a 1951 ruling against a nazi-relaunch party), since then many left and right wing extremist organizations were forbidden and their symbols outlawed, but also Islamic groups, Foreign groups like the PKK and others. It is written ins the reconstitution to outlaw those kind of groups. You definitely should re-read the german basic law (constitution) and stop sprouting such nonsense as above.

Also to the author of the article. Germany is NOT the United States. What is holy in your constitution isn't the same in other countries. Certainly no one will stop you believing in what you want, but once you try to rip ppl off or work against OUR constitution the state has the obligation to take a closer look. And practicing a religion (which you can do with no problems) and being a recognized religion (which is a status that isn't gained easily but will give the religion a lot say in matter) is not the same in Germany. Yes, this is a complicated matter, but it is your _duty_ as a journalist to try to understand. I recommend reading about German history of the 100years, reading the German Basic Law http://www.bundestag.de/htdocs_e/parliament/function/legal/germanbasiclaw.pdf and the duties of the "Office for the protection of the constition" http://www.verfassungsschutz.de/en/index_en.html . But fair warning ahead it is much larger than the 27 arcticles of the US Bill of Rights.

And why attacking only Germany, what about Greece where even the 'practice' is fobidden since 1995?

scientology is not a religion, they are a business and they corrupt the minds of their followers. Scientology is a cult go to xenu.net and read about it.

Also for all of you christians out there please go to google video and watch "zeitgeist"

LOC GATON: Fair Game is no lie. This is why we hide our identities.

However, as of present, you have about as good a chance to be struck by lightning on a nice but slightly day, as you to be exposed to Fair Game by scientologists because of protesting; and if you follow good practices to remain Anonymous chances are that you'll never be harassed.

Most of the Anonymii who have been harassed and Fair Gamed knew this was going to happen, simply because they put their names on protest permits. It was an inevitability, and they understood this before hand.

If these brave people can knowingly expose themselves to Fair Game, isn't spending a few hours in a mask hanging out with a bunch of cake eating goofballs just about the least you can do, if you truly abhor the actions of scientology? We're playing a game with scientology, and the stakes are literally the lives of many people.

Um. if you REALLY want to know about scientology, go to www.Xenu.net and click on What Is Scientology, or google these terms:
"Scientology Fair Game"
"Lisa McPherson"
"Paulette Cooper"
"Operation Freakout"
"OPeration Snow White"

Um. if you REALLY want to know about scientology, go to www.Xenu.net and click on What Is Scientology, or google these terms:
"Scientology Fair Game"
"Lisa McPherson"
"Paulette Cooper"
"Operation Freakout"
"OPeration Snow White"

What is it exactly that you would like me to google?

My understanding of scientology is limited, although I have done some reading on the topic over time. My understanding of world religions and their impact on politics is much deeper - much of my graduate work was focused on this topic.

Perhaps it would help if you could provide some concrete examples of how Scientology has demonstrated its dangerous tendencies? As for the five majors.....

count almost every genocide and about 90% of human war over time.

Just choose any other religion and study its birth and expansion. You will be hard pressed to find even one that has been as benign as scientology.

First, the "Church" of Scientology tells you that it is compaitable with all other religions.

Then, at OTIII, they tell you that all religions are implants and that Jesus, Moses, Buddha et al never existed. (see docs EVRYWHERE and various interviews from ex-CoS members).

Then, at OYVIII, for some reason, further along the Bridge, Hubbard states that Jesus did exist and that he was hateful and a lover of young boys. (see Church of Scientology International v. Fishman and Geertz)

Now, Claire, what do YOU think of this bait and switch and switch again "religion"?

CONFUSED: thank you for your answer. I would only say if we could provide a list of casualties, of physical deaths, I would assume scientology's "end of cycles" read: suicides, top the list currently. I could be wrong here. Looking at it from the outside with hopefully a disinterested point of view, I think scientology is a dangerous cult.

storge:

I agree that Scientology is a dangerous cult. But for me, that is just one more religion on the list.

Thank you for your balanced comments about Germany and Scientology. Scientology has been a wonderful part of my and my family's life, literally saving my daughter's life and helping her live a happy and productive life.

Confused,

Google; Lisa McPherson, Fair Game, Operation Snow White, Elle Perkins, exscientologykids, Xenu, Rehabilitation Project Force, Gerry Armstrong, Operation Freakout, it just goes on and on. Once you start you will find yourself going in so many directions you'll get dizzy!

The problem is not Germany's vigilance in monitoring Scientology. The problem is the United States' negligence in doing so. Scientology is a business masquerading as a religion.

I am deeply suspicious of any religion that requires payment for services rendered. That criterion puts a target of doubt on the validity of Scientology.

nwills,

thanks for being upfront about your membership in Scientology. Too often members act like they have no affiliation and act as if there should be no controversy. I am happy your experience has been positive, I think the lower level teachings can be effective. But I know that the Management of CoS is militant, subversive, totalitarian and evil. Stay at the lower levels and you should be fine.

Freedom of religion is not freedom to abuse. Unfortunately, Scientology falls into the latter category.

I support the German Gov's refusal to recognize a raceteering group seeking financial gain through its operations, thefts, lies, opression of its members, attacks on its former members, and collection of feel levied on current members.

This racket owns businesses, has a secret political agenda, and outright lies to its members about its purpose and operations that exploit the membership financially.

Scientology is NOT a religion. It is a racketeering organization who's main product - a book called "dianetics"- was written on a bet that L. Ron Hubbard could not make the mythical religion of his science fiction books' protagonists into an actual cult.

But he succeeded!

Scientology is a cult created expressly for financial gain who's leadership steals from its members and lies to them.

It is NOT a religion.

Anyone who has believed that government has nothing to do with religion should be better informed after considering this controversy. Clearly, religion can be a threat to government and therefore to the order a country's citizens expect and put a government in place to provide. Governments of all kinds should be considering how best to address disputes regarding religion in ways other than just denying that it is any of their business.

Wog:

thanks for the list. I will follow up.

To clarify, though, I don't find any fault with the claim that Scientology is a dangerous cult. My main point is that all relgions are dangerous cults. Further, I think that it will be VERY hard to demonstrate that Scientology is more dangerous than these other religions. Any short review of human history will justify this claim.

While Scientology's danger is mostly small-scale/hypothetical, the rest have a demonstrated pattern of violence-inspired-by-intolerance. At this rate, it would take Scientology thousands of years to match the body count piled up by any of the five majors in the past 100 years alone.

Yes and how much do you pay them each year?

Yes and how much do you pay them each year?

Confused - That would change if Scientology got power. The undesired would be "deleted" (in Hubbard's words)

That is why it is imperative to make sure they do NOT get power. I really do not want to live in a place with a new "reich"

confused,

I understand your reservations. But except for fundementalist Islam, no other religion is practicing murder and mayhem today. All those issues are in the past. Scientology is practicing it's evil today! And while I know that Catholicism is getting terrible press these days, its sins aren't written into their scriptures. L. Ron Hubbard commanded all the evil be done.

Wog

Is there some danger of a Scientologist theocracy in Germany? Or anywhere else, for that matter?

Theocracy is dangerous, no doubt. I have not seen any evidence to suggest that one religion-in-charge is capable of doing more damage than another.

Still, Scientology would have to overcome a series of religious genocides and a whole century of religious war to really merit the criticisms leveled in this thread. Are you all so blind to the history, attitudes, and behaviors of your own religions?

The Germans have not forgotten what happened to their country under Nazism. Considered highly intelligent and educated, the Germans of that time fell prey to the propaganda, jingoism, nationalistic militaristic fervor propaganted by Hitler. Scientology aims to appeal to the "mind" of the person so it purports to be "open" not insidious. Germany knows what it is doing. Scientology has nothing to do with freedom of thought or religion. Scientology is brainswashing; just look at the bizarro Tom Cruise. Cruise is not the same person from when he firts started in the movies.

It seems to me more effort was put into researching these comments than was into the article they refer to.

While it is certainly easy (and well precedented) to mock the tenants of any faith as ridiculous, it is abundantly clear that it is not the beliefs of the Scientologists that inflame citizens, but the practices of the organization that masquerades itself as a 'church'.

Crying religious persecution requires, well, persecution.

Criticizing the acts of a religious group does not threaten the beliefs of said group. The slow response of the Catholic Church to the accusation of child molestation has been loudly decried in the media, however these calls for justice have never degraded the belief that Christ is wholly divine. Nor when terrorist organizations assault the innocent do we turn about and say "Mohammed is not the prophet of God".

The German government has every right (and the duty!) to forbid an organization from practicing its methods within Germany if those methods are deemed to be harmful and dangerous to German citizens. Germany has not said "The beliefs of Scientology are illegal", they have said "Your structure is undemocratic, and you cannot extort or hurt German citizens."

Pyramid and Ponzi schemes are illegal in the United States. One can only hope that we are quick to follow in Germany's footsteps in recognizing the Scientology organization as one.

As the wise man once said, "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

The funny thing about all the criticism about Scientology is that it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION WHATSOEVER.

Scientology is a tax-exempt "charitable" CORPORATION. People may chuckle at its kooky "religious" dogma -- but that's not what is at issue.

If any other tax-exempt charitable corporation (say, the March of Dimes) were pulling the same sort of illegal and abuses nonsense as Scientology is -- they'd have 10,000 protesters outside of their buildings every month too!

Slapping a, "now were a religion" label on a scam is not a license to commit fraud, kidnapping, blackmail, frame critics for bomb threats or infiltrate and bug federal offices.

What would YOU do if you find out the March of Dimes was doing all of those things?

(apologies to the March of Dimes for even making the comparison)

This isn't a fight about religion. It's a fight about the broken ethics and massive abuse of a corporation. They don't get to get away with playing the, "religious bigots!" card.

NWills, maybe you can answer any of the questions i posted earlier i really appreciate that you admit being a scientologist and tell that right away instead of accusing me of hate speech so the question was ...

L. Ron Hubbard teaches (as far as i know) that two percent of the world's population should be disposed of "quietly and without sorrow" sorry but regarding my cultural background i can´t but think of something we know to well here in germany so maybe you or anyone who disagrees with the goverment i voted for can kindly explain something like that to me.

Another question that just came into my mind ... that two percent are those who are below a certain degree of a "tonescale" (also something i found on the web) i think it was below 2.0 right?

Who if i may ask is below these 2.0, what would disqualify me?

If you cannot answer that correctly then who can?

The funny thing about all the criticism about Scientology is that it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION WHATSOEVER.

Scientology is a tax-exempt "charitable" CORPORATION. People may chuckle at its kooky "religious" dogma -- but that's not what is at issue.

If any other tax-exempt charitable corporation (say, the March of Dimes) were pulling the same sort of illegal and abuses nonsense as Scientology is -- they'd have 10,000 protesters outside of their buildings every month too!

Slapping a, "now were a religion" label on a scam is not a license to commit fraud, kidnapping, blackmail, frame critics for bomb threats or infiltrate and bug federal offices.

What would YOU do if you find out the March of Dimes was doing all of those things?

(apologies to the March of Dimes for even making the comparison)

This isn't a fight about religion. It's a fight about the broken ethics and massive abuse of a corporation. They don't get to get away with playing the, "religious bigots!" card.

There are a lot of posts here so I haven't read them all and I hope I'm not repeating somebody else's points...

It is troubling that Germany's reaction to its Nazi past has been to allow a great deal of government control and censorship over religious and political activity. The German republic clearly does not have as strong a tradition of free speech and expression as we do in America.

However, if the German government were EVER going to restrict/monitor and suppress religious or political activity, the Church of Scientology should qualify. My research on CoS has convinced me that the German conclusion is correct. CoS is a business and NOT a religion. The sad truth of Scientology is that it was invented by a professional con man (Hubbard) who was extremely methodical in his efforts to disguise his money-making pseudo-religious organization in the robes of true religion, with the intention of gaining the protections of the American constitution and tax code that are due to religions.

I don't believe in government censorship, but if the Germans are going to suppress Neo-Nazi activity, they might as well include Scientology as well. The CoS has consitently shown itself to be aggressive, violent, manipulative, willing to blackmail, extort, physically intimate and otherwise bully anybody who speaks out against them. Furthermore, its is well documented that the CoS attempted to infilitrate and subvert the United States government to further the "church"'s goals. Scientology is dangerous.

Scientology's "Auditing" is in fact a brainwashing technique called "Coersive Persuasion"

Scientology should be banned.

The funny thing about all the criticism about Scientology is that it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION WHATSOEVER.

Scientology is a tax-exempt "charitable" CORPORATION. People may chuckle at its kooky "religious" dogma -- but that's not what is at issue.

If any other tax-exempt charitable corporation (say, the March of Dimes) were pulling the same sort of illegal and abuses nonsense as Scientology is -- they'd have 10,000 protesters outside of their buildings every month too!

Slapping a, "now were a religion" label on a scam is not a license to commit fraud, kidnapping, blackmail, frame critics for bomb threats or infiltrate and bug federal offices.

What would YOU do if you find out the March of Dimes was doing all of those things?

(apologies to the March of Dimes for even making the comparison)

This isn't a fight about religion. It's a fight about the broken ethics and massive abuse of a corporation. They don't get to get away with playing the, "religious bigots!" card.

Confused-

Perhaps I can put it this way, as this may appeal to your stance.

If you can stop an evil (the management of Scientology) before it got too big to really do anything about it. Would you?

Scientology is still young. There is still a chance to expose it and prevent it from doing some really really bad stuff. (Well, it already has done a ton of bad things but you know what I mean)

Religions reach out to a Higher Being ... Scientology reaches out for the bank accounts and minds of confused, often desperate people.

Confused wrote:

"Still, Scientology would have to overcome a series of religious genocides and a whole century of religious war to really merit the criticisms leveled in this thread. Are you all so blind to the history, attitudes, and behaviors of your own religions?"

Someone else doing something wrong does not excuse wrongdoing.

Perhaps I should put it this way: it is BECAUSE of the history, attitudes and behaviors we have learned from studying these religions that we can say "Scientology's practices are harmful and wrong!"

Or are you implying that compared to genocide, the small-scale harm to members and critics of Scientology should be tolerated? Or excused? Or praised for being "not as horrendous"?

The lesser-of-evils argument is very unappealing.

Wog:

I can think of some other religious conflicts that are going on today:

1) The conflict between Judaism and Islam in the Middle East (which is an ongoing military conflict).
2) The conflict between Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. Those countries divided because of religious differences. The region has been prone to religious violence before that division, and since.
3) The War on Terror has a HUGE religious component. Terror is a tactic - one employed by the United States AND its opponents. The war is really about access to resources and opposing (religious) world views. Both sides are fighting - not just Islamic fundamentalists.
4) Their is certainly a religious component to the conflict in the Chinese territory of Tibet (Buddhist).
5) The genocide committed in the Balkans in the 1990's was entirely based on religious differences.
6) The domestic conflict in Iraq is essentially religious in nature. Here the lines are drawn among Sunnnis, Shi-ites, and Kurds.

The list goes on. Hopefully the point is made, though. Religious conflict is NOT a thing of the past. You dont have to look back to the Crusades to see Christianity or Islam or Hinduism go to war. Just look at a paper.

EVERY Government should be watching this group.

They have been caught and convicted of infiltrating governments before (THE US GOVERNMENT).

They have also been found guilty of numerous other crimes.

Scientology is not compatible with the US constitution ether. They actively defend their right to 'fairgame' people (injure, sue, lie to, kill).

James:

I understand your feelings about this. If I had my way, religion itself would be dissolved.

BUT, I defer to a higher principle here. I don't think it is my business to BAN any religion. Nor do I think it is right for any government to support one religion over another, or to deliberately marginalize a the growth of a religion.

I think the fact that Germany is considering banning Scientology tells us a lot more about Germany than it does about Scientology. I also believe that any good American would defend the right to religious freedom with their last drop of blood.

Having said that, I don't think any religion/business should be tax exempt.

I think it is wrong for ALL religious instutions to be tax exempt. Churches are making profits and should be taxed on their profits. Religion is a big business.

Confused, I doubt very much that anyone here is arguing that the conflicts and religious violence that have been mentioned (and that you have listed) are anything but atrocities.

But please: are you saying it would take such actions on the part of the Scientology organization before you engaged your morals?

Is it incorrect for people to protest a wrong as they see it? How much harm is to be tolerated?

Ti - They did the same to the Canadian government as well.

They were also banned in Greece. This is the Greek government's stance on Scientology.

"it is an organization with totalitarian structures and tendencies, which in essence despises man, though it deceivingly acts freely in order and eclusively to attract members who in turn undergo brain washing, so as to render their way of thought controllable"

Geth:

You are totally right. The crimes of other religions do not justify the crimes of Scientology. I am not a supporter of Scientology or any religion.

I do think, though, that adherents of other religions who throw these stones at Sceintology are unaware of the fact that they live in the proverbial "glass houses."

according to the church of scientology I am a:

Communist, Nazi, Terrorist, Wife-Beating, Criminal who is poor yet paid by the pharmacuetical company.

This is a perfect example of fair game that the church denies yet still practices.

The truth is that i am neither a commie, nazi, or terrorist. im not married and i have never hit a woman. my record with the police is clean. I am remarkably poor i havent had a job since january (i have an interview tonight thought so heres hoping) and i have never recieved a check from the pill company in my life.

yes religions defintly should go around saying that teenagers are all these horrible things or thats at least what this website is hinting at.

France considers it a cult, you know. Russia just raided a NarConon. The Freewinds are being impounded by the Dutch due to Blue Asbestos (dedliest form that can cause uncurable cancer) that the Church knew of (if confirmed and it looks very likely it will be) for about 20 years. They will have no recourse in attack.

Confused: My religion (Episcopal) is generally seen at the milder end of the range and yet was founded in exceptionally dubious circumstances and has done truly dreadful and wicked things to people over the years.

I'm a good Episcopalian and a regular churchgoer, but I think most people would think me either mad or dishonest if I resolutely refused to acknowledged that my church had ever done wrong; or accused every critic of Episcopalian of practising hate speech; or colluded with other Episcopalians to blacken the names of people whose only crime was, say, to question the morality of Henry VII (or Gene Robinson even), or suggest that our Mass isn't as good as the Catholics', and that our priests aren't really legit.

That's what Scientology does.

Every time.

Confused: My religion (Episcopal) is generally seen at the milder end of the range and yet was founded in exceptionally dubious circumstances and has done truly dreadful and wicked things to people over the years.

I'm a good Episcopalian and a regular churchgoer, but I think most people would think me either mad or dishonest if I resolutely refused to acknowledged that my church had ever done wrong; or accused every critic of Episcopalian of practising hate speech; or colluded with other Episcopalians to blacken the names of people whose only crime was, say, to question the morality of Henry VIII (or Gene Robinson even), or suggest that our Mass isn't as good as the Catholics', and that our priests aren't really legit.

That's what Scientology does.

Every time.

"I do think, though, that adherents of other religions who throw these stones at Sceintology are unaware of the fact that they live in the proverbial "glass houses"

What happened 1000 years ago, or last week, doesn't affect the followers of a religion. The perception, I think, but not the followers. One can still have faith. This "church" is doing adverse things today and now. What other religions have done in the past does in no way justify what one might do today. This goes for any religion.

Mr Tom Cruise says "Why ask permission, We are the Authoritys" in the much view video clip.
That what Hitler said when he invaded Poland.

and you wonder Why the Germans dont like a Cult with that Mindset ?

Scientologys goal is to "Clear" the planet.

as the Freewinds Asbestos in the Air Conditioning scandal shows, this Cult cant even look after a micro environment such as this boat, let alone the whole planet.

if you REALLY want to know about scientology, go to www.Xenu.net and click on What Is Scientology, or google these terms:
"Scientology Fair Game"
"Lisa McPherson"
"Paulette Cooper"
"Operation Freakout"
"OPeration Snow White"

Confused wrote:

'You are totally right. The crimes of other religions do not justify the crimes of Scientology. I am not a supporter of Scientology or any religion.

I do think, though, that adherents of other religions who throw these stones at Sceintology are unaware of the fact that they live in the proverbial "glass houses."'

Confused, I can say as well that I am not a supporter of any religion. However, it is not so easy as to fall back on the "Let he who is without sin" argument (and I use that as a literary reference!).

Can only an atheist criticize religion? Or a Catholic? Or a Mormon, or a Buddhist?

What must be reemphasized is that none of this vitriol is being hurled at the individual who reads Hubbard's texts and says "Yes, I believe this". It is reserved for those within the Scientology organization who knowingly cause harm, mislead, and extort those within, and engage in harmful acts to those critical of said organization.

To make a rather glib analogy, we all have the right to not be stabbed. If I am a shoplifter, that does not in anyway infringe upon my right to not be stabbed. Now of course, I must be held accountable for being a shoplifter, and pay for those illegal acts, but at no time does it mean I have forfeited my right protection from physical harm.

We ALL live in glass houses, Confused. There is no supreme secular moral authority that is blameless of any wrongdoing. What can be relied upon is a citizen recognizing something like the Scientology organization and saying "This is wrong!" Individuals must make their individual moral judgments within the bounds of the society they agree to inhabit. It just so happens that in this case, many such individuals find the actions of Scientology to be reprehensible.

according to the church of scientology I am a:

Communist, Nazi, Terrorist, Wife-Beating, Criminal who is poor yet paid by the pharmacuetical company.

This is a perfect example of fair game that the church denies yet still practices.

The truth is that i am neither a commie, nazi, or terrorist. im not married and i have never hit a woman. my record with the police is clean. I am remarkably poor i havent had a job since january (i have an interview tonight thought so heres hoping) and i have never recieved a check from the pill company in my life.

yes religions defintly should go around saying that teenagers are all these horrible things or thats at least what SCIENTOLOGY is hinting at.

according to the church of scientology I am a:

Communist, Nazi, Terrorist, Wife-Beating, Criminal who is poor yet paid by the pharmacuetical company.

This is a perfect example of fair game that the church denies yet still practices.

The truth is that i am neither a commie, nazi, or terrorist. im not married and i have never hit a woman. my record with the police is clean. I am remarkably poor i havent had a job since january (i have an interview tonight thought so heres hoping) and i have never recieved a check from the pill company in my life.

yes religions defintly should go around saying that teenagers are all these horrible things or thats at least what SCIENTOLOGY is hinting at.

To Confused: You are currently acting like a Sea Org Pr plant. It's seen before in different places and I don't think anyone believes when you say that you are not a member. In fact just how you try to turn the attention to other religions is what the policy says to do. And it is ridiculous how you think that some crimes should be overlooked as someone else is doing bigger crimes.

Crime is a crime and now it's our turn to ask "what are your crimes" (in case someone doesn't know scientologs try to confuse critics by chanting agressivily "what are your crimes" as Hubbard said that only criminals would be against them).

"What is Germany so afraid of?"

The Co$ is still ran by powerhungry, greedy leaders. Their "checkered past" continues to this day. Their use of critic-suppressing tactics to intimidate anyone who opposes their organization. The use of Fair Game, although said to be stopped, still continues. They stalk, and identify their critics to post slander in their neighborhoods. No other "religion" attacks its critics with such atrocity. More of a cult-like routine if anything. Their human rights violations on their members (see: Sea Org) are disgusting. Forced abortions, child labor, disconnection, and much more.

We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not Forgive.
We do not Forget.
Expect us.

You say "They are a religion largely focused on self-improvement'. You forget to tell why it is a religion. The point is the definition of "religion". You do not specify yours, and you have not checked what the German definition is.

Google: "end of cycle" suicide

Germany has a unique history, to put in mildly. I'm not particularly surprised or disturbed about their government taking this stance (although I understand how the impingement on thought and association might be disconcerting -- as an American, I am suspect of such things).

But your article (as I read it) includes a general (and very American) presumption -- which I do not share -- that anything called a "religion" or "faith" has at least some merit and is to the good. Although, as the Supreme Court once said, we are a "Christian nation," and (more broadly) a religious one, I think the country needs to reexamine this article of faith (so to speak). A religion is an organization of people, and like any organization can do harm and/or good. The fact that people think what they are doing is compelled by a higher power or belief should not lend their actions any more credence than actions by a company, a family, or any other association. It adds nothing to the merit of what they do.

Ms Hoffman, my apologies if anyone else has offered this analogy in one of the previous posts, but this would be my response to this article.

Just imagine that the abuses going on in the Mormon sekt in Texas would have been extremely well documented on the internet. Suppose furthermore that hundreds of people would have been protesting outside the cults' buildings for a number of months (with a smaller number of people having protesting there for decades). The protesters have made it abundantly clear that their main objective is to alert and educate members of the public (spearheaded by the press) about the abuses of the cult. Suppose furthermore, that many members of the cult would already have been convicted for pedophilia and other crimes.

Imagine now that the Texas government would have issued a statement at this point to the effect that a raid would be an appropriate move.

Would you have written an article, suggesting that the Texas government is being paranoid?

Unfortunately, this is exactly what is happening here.

Many comments have expressed disappointment about this article (readers new to this article will find out as they scroll down). I can vividly understand this. They are the people protesting each month, trying to tell people: IT'S ALL ON THE INTERNET! READ ABOUT IT! It's very disappointing when a journalist dismisses this gargantuan mountain of evidence about Scientology abuses as nothing more than a 'checkered past'.

I really hope you will take a bit of time to do some more research on recent abuses of the Scientology cult. I cross my fingers that you have the courage and professionalism to report on the result of such research.

Germany is taking the correct approach. Ms. Hoffman really needs to do her homework with respect to Scientology. It is not a religion - it is a business at best, a cult at worst.

Really Ms, Hoffman, you should have known better.

I strongly agree with the stance Germany is taking. I just don't understand why the US is so far behind in cracking down on this sort of deep corruption.

What is Germany afraid of? Germany still remembers the SS. There is a lot of parallel between the way Scientology is run, particularly the Sea Org within Scientology and the Nazi SS.

If you would do ten minutes research you would see that a "checkered past" is a vast understatement when it comes to the truth about Scientology. This is not a religion. It is a scam disguised as a religion and is meant to part people from their money, and for the leaders to enjoy control over their lives. Germany does not forget the past. Neither should anyone else.

I've been a minister of the Church of Scientology for over 30 years. We've seen various witch hunts against Scientology in England, the US, Spain, Australia, and other countries. Eventually we prevail against what is essentially religious discrimination, aka bigotry. I see a lot of it in the comments on this very article.

We have seen a great increase in anti-religious sentiment in general in America over the last few decades, and one can't watch television these days without seeing fundamental Christianity and various ofshoots of it vilified and ridiculed in shows like SVU, CSI, Numb3rs, Criminal Minds, etc.

Scientologists appear to me to be one of the few groups standing up to this wave of hateful anti-religious sentiments, and by doing so we have taken a lot of heat.

We also have powerful enemies in organized Psychiatry and Big Pharma, who are now joined at the hip financially. We have worked very hard for the last few decades to stem the tide toward the labeling and drugging of everyone in this country. It was the Scientologists who organized getting the black label warning boxes put on the big money-makers for Big Pharma, the anti-psychotics that routinely cause suicidal ideation and homicidal ideation a fair percentage of those who take them. We've been decrying the link between school shootings and psych drugs for decades now, and are finally getting some public recognition for this.

As Winston Churchill said, "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." We've take a strong stand against the abuses of psychiatry as we see them as crimes against the spirit of man, with which we deal in our religion.

As long as psychiatry labels, drugs, imprisons, tortures, and kills 115,000 people a year in psych instituttions, we will continue to fight them.

To me, it appears that the influence of psychiatry in Germany is pretty strong, and when you hear anti-religious spewings from government officials there, you don't have to look back very far in history to know that there's something fishy about it.

Germany is treating Scientology much in the same way as the US did for most of Scientology's history. The issue is not Germany. The issue really is why in 1993 the IRS reversed a Supreme Court-backed position (Hernandez v. Commissioner) that "auditing" was a quid pro quo and therefore not deductible. It was essentially a business. That reversal is what effectively turned Scientology into a religion that could be included on the State Department's watch list of countries who discriminate against religion.

And, of course, Germany is fully aware that Scientology is an organization that has a criminal history of infiltrating government organizations (see Operation Snow White for one).

Oh yeah, for even more fun, the IRS refuses to disclose the settlement agreement with Scientology. Want a Pulitzer Ms. Hoffman? Uncover the story of what the COS did to achieve that reversal.

On second reading, this brainless article is more like a cheap trick to get a lot of comments. I regret my earlier comment.

Does a plumber get special attention when he commits a crime? Do we look the other way when your local locksmith steals from your home? Would you dimsiss an account of a 15 yearold girl getting raped just because the person she's accusing seems like a nice guy? HELL NO. A crime is a crime is a crime is a crime is a crime. I don't get special treatment and neither should the CoS. It's time to pay the bucher's bill.

Does a plumber get special attention when he commits a crime? Do we look the other way when your local locksmith steals from your home? Would you dimsiss an account of a 15 yearold girl getting raped just because the person she's accusing seems like a nice guy? HELL NO. A crime is a crime is a crime is a crime is a crime. I don't get special treatment and neither should the CoS. It's time to pay the butcher's bill.

Does a plumber get special attention when he commits a crime? Do we look the other way when your local locksmith steals from your home? Would you dimsiss an account of a 15 yearold girl getting raped just because the person she's accusing seems like a nice guy? HELL NO. A crime is a crime is a crime is a crime is a crime. I don't get special treatment and neither should the CoS. It's time to pay the butcher's bill.

It seems to me that you are not well informed about Scientology and how dangerous it is. But it is possible and easy to get information and then you can publish them here again and help to warn people about this dangerous cult.
I'm very happy that Germany is aware of the dangers of the cult. Scientology threatens our democracy with their totalitarian system. We had a fascistic regime before and we don't need and don't want another one!!!

according to the church of scientology I am a:

Communist, Nazi, Terrorist, Wife-Beating, Criminal who is poor yet paid by the pharmacuetical company.

This is a perfect example of fair game that the church denies yet still practices.

The truth is that i am neither a commie, nazi, or terrorist. im not married and i have never hit a woman. my record with the police is clean. I am remarkably poor i havent had a job since january (i have an interview tonight thought so heres hoping) and i have never recieved a check from the pill company in my life.

yes religions defintly should go around saying that teenagers are all these horrible things or thats at least what SCIENTOLOGY is hinting at.

Jay McGraw - Have you been aboard the Freewinds? May want to get yourself checked for mesothelioma. The church management did not tell the members about this despite the fact THEY KNEW since 1987.

The Freewinds is currently having the asbestos removed under the watch of the Dutch government.

From several reports, blue asbestos HAS entered the ventilation system of the Freewinds.

Jay, please get yourself checked for mesothelioma.

CONFUSEd: "Is there some danger of a Scientologist theocracy in Germany? Or anywhere else, for that matter?"

Yes. Scinetology is censoring the internet and the public debate about Scientology.

Mr. McGraw:

Can you please provide documents or links to non-Scientology or CCHR sites that back up your claims that German policy is influenced and/or controlled by psychiatrists?

Can you please provide the source for the 115,000 people that you state as being tortured and killed by pharmaceutical companies and/or psychiatrists every year?

As far as those killed by anti-psychotic drugs, can you please define what you consider as a 'fair percentage', and what medical study provided this number?

While topics such as this provoke often heated responses from both sides of the issue, and should be expected to rouse those willing only to shout slogans at each other, as a claimed representative of the organization in question I would be very interested to see the research behind your statements.

Though I'm sure you can point to documents produced by your own organizations, for something that styles itself as a 'science' and a 'religion', I would be very interested to see independent, peer-reviewed studies that support your claims.

Undoubtedly there are comments posted here which are contrary to your position, but many of these comments have referenced as well as linked to court documents and government statements with support the user's words. I would like to see yours.

Note to self: when writing troll comments on the net, I should only use the bit with circular reasoning where I accuse people of religious bigotry. To consequently start ranting about Psychiatry deaths is utterly off-topic, so people might be disinclined to take anything I say serious.

Jay, on a more serious note. I really hope that you will consider doing an thorough doubt formula one of these days. Some data you could use:
- Why does Anonymous exist?
- 40,000 IAS members worldwide in 2007? That's LESS than in 1995!
- From the 1200 people in Gold base, 800 have been offloaded and no end is in sight.
- 50,000,000 LRH books sold = 55,000 active Scientologist in the world.
- $300,000.00 was spent for TC's Birthday party, what was your income this year?
- Did you know that Scn Int Income has gone down by 50% in the last two years?
- There are no Saint Hill size orgs. The Ideal Orgs are largely empty.

Good luck.

According to the record, The Church of Scientology is a litigious bunch of crackpots who follow a belief system that was cooked up by a second-rate science fiction writer. Germany had its share of kooks during the 20th Century. Their belief system deified a failed art student/World War I medal-winning messenger boy and blamed the Versaille treaty, their loss of World War I in general, draconian war reparations, and social and economic upheaval during the post-war period on European bankers (read Jews) and their relatives (read all Jews). That crackpot lead Germany into a ruinous Second World War that they also lost, after completely militarizing their society and organizing a genocide. So, to explain why Germany is sensitive to crackpots, one must only refer to how things turned out for them with a crackpot for a Leader.

I have NO problem with the BELIFES of Scientology.

I DO have a problem with children working more then the LAW allows.

I DO have a problem with the US IRS giving one entity MORE exemptions then others.

I DO have a problem with being harrased because I speak out abou these issues.

I spoke out about the Catholic bishop scandle and NO ONE bothered me....but now I get followed by PIs..... I Spoke out about the abuses of the Polygamists in Utah and NO ONE BOTHERED ME... But now got a cease and desist letter????

All I have done is speak out about these SPECIFIC ISSUES... I am NOT anonymous.. I am known. I protest and lobby about these issues

WHAT DOES THIS ORGANIZATION HAVE TO HIDE...WHY ATTACK a suburban housewife????

I'd like to thank Jay Mcgraw for demonstrating the mindless muddle that becomes of one with 30 years of being in the COS. 115,000 deaths a year in psych institutions? You'd think someone would have noticed. Where's the evidence for that Jay? (Scientology publications don't count.)

The truth is, organizations like Scientology need enemies ("psychs" and "big pharma") in order to sustain the passion and enthusiasm of its members. And I will tell everyone who reads this that, although I am a critic of Scientology, their members are well intentioned people trying to do good.

But they are woefully uniformed. In part because they are fed nonsense by the Church. In part because their training makes critical thinking about the Church an impossibility.

And for all their rants about psychiatry and big pharma, the truth is Scientology has NOTHING to offer the mentally ill. It's only the "able" they claim to make more able.

You could also read "able" to mean: those with money to pay for that next course. The free things in Scientology have nothing to do with getting members "up the Bridge."

Jay McGraw:

"As long as psychiatry labels, drugs, imprisons, tortures, and kills 115,000 people a year in psych instituttions, we will continue to fight them."

Don't you think, you are generalizing a fair bit when you imply "psychiatry" as a whole would be committing these acts?

"To me, it appears that the influence of psychiatry in Germany is pretty strong, and when you hear anti-religious spewings from government officials there, you don't have to look back very far in history to know that there's something fishy about it."

spewings? I suggest you read some of the reports that have been compiled after months of careful investigation. And the so-called "witch hunts" in other countries that you mentioned might serve as an indication that there is more to it than just german anti-religious bias.
Just take american court documents with cases on Scientology, some as recent as the Wollersheim case. Look at some of the documents found in the raids on the greece KEPHE centre (scientology): www.(dot)unchain(dot)gr/seizeddocs.html , where they found files on politicians and famous greek personalities, also on greek orthodox priests. Who's the anti-religious bigot now? They also found a secret military map in possession of Scientology. Never mind germany, there's enough non-german material out there on Scientology. How do you like the recent exposé on israeli prime time television (TV2) about the Church of Scientology? Is this also because of germany's nazi past?

"It was the Scientologists who organized getting the black label warning boxes put on the big money-makers for Big Pharma, the anti-psychotics that routinely cause suicidal ideation and homicidal ideation a fair percentage of those who take them."

I guess you are proud when less people take anti-depressants? It is known there have been some deaths because of this ideology against psychiatric treatment in general and preferring bogus vitamin treatment instead. E.g. Jeremy Perkins' mother.

"Scientologists appear to me to be one of the few groups standing up to this wave of hateful anti-religious sentiments, and by doing so we have taken a lot of heat."

Scientology was being criticized from day one before it even dawned on Hubbard that it might be practical to call his organization a religion.

"Eventually we prevail against what is essentially religious discrimination, aka bigotry. I see a lot of it in the comments on this very article."

You see, this is an example why it's so difficult to have meaningful, critical discussions with many Scientologists about what they regard as their religion: whoever criticizes must be a bigot or worse. Never mind a lot of quotations from Hubbard texts were used and a lot of references to actual, documented events like "operation snow white" or to institutions such as the RPF. It's all religious bigotry and there's no need to answer any criticism on point.

Jay McGraw:

Flunk! I'll repeat the auditing question:

When L Ron Hubbard decided to create a religion for profit (numerous citations over the years from around 1930 on to various personalities are available), he realized he would need an oppressor. In 1965 or so he sponsored (ordered) a study to find the members of the conspiracy against Scientology (none had bitten so far). Stemming from that study David Gaiman of East Grinstead St. Hill GO burgled the Max Plank Insitut in West Germany to try to prove some conspiracy against Scientology. You failed. There is no conspiracy against Scientology. Most psychiatrists have never heard of you and don't give a damn. It's failed marketing. You've been had.

PS We've watched your efforts to paint antidepressants as drugs that cause enturbulation (psychosis) and we've watched that black pr campaign fail too, for lack of scientific basis. L Ron Hubbard can make stuff up and pretend he's creating a science, but in the real world among real people you need studies and figures to prove things. Flunk, I'll repeat the audting question...

Jay McGraw:

Flunk! I'll repeat the auditing question:

When L Ron Hubbard decided to create a religion for profit (numerous citations over the years from around 1930 on to various personalities are available), he realized he would need an oppressor. In 1965 or so he sponsored (ordered) a study to find the members of the conspiracy against Scientology (none had bitten so far). Stemming from that study David Gaiman of East Grinstead St. Hill GO burgled the Max Plank Insitut in West Germany to try to prove some conspiracy against Scientology. You failed. There is no conspiracy against Scientology. Most psychiatrists have never heard of you and don't give a damn. It's failed marketing. You've been had.

PS We've watched your efforts to paint antidepressants as drugs that cause enturbulation (psychosis) and we've watched that black pr campaign fail too, for lack of scientific basis. L Ron Hubbard can make stuff up and pretend he's creating a science, but in the real world among real people you need studies and figures to prove things. Flunk, I'll repeat the auditing question...

scientologists will tell you psychiatrists perpetrated the holocaust. in fact psychiatrists were not involved, except in a very limited humanitarian capacity among the children at Theresienstadt concentration camp. The really famous psychiatrists/psychologists (Scientologists don't make a distinction between the two professions) were Jews, Sigmund Freud from Austria first and foremost. Carl Jung had no use for Nazis either, although his name was attached to a Nazi conference document against his will. and yeah, if the "psychs" are killing 150,000 people annually, where are the bodies? where are the bone yards? this is just more of the crap they peddle as religion, not even up to snuff for the low standards held by alien abduction fanatics and satanic ritual abuse nuts.

Time and time again as we intend the absolute annihilation of the Scientology cult

> Ban Scientology? Doesn't that seem kind of extreme? They are a religion largely focused on self-improvement. While I'm well aware of their checkered past, decrying it unconstitutional seems like a threatened position to take by a nation.

With all due respect, but when a Nation that has been through not one but two totalitarian systems (national socialism and communism) claims that a certain organization is a threat to their democratic order - which is indeed a very extreme stance against a (in this case self-proclaimed. since it is not officially accepted as a religion in Germany) church - this alledgedly checkered "past" might be worth a second look.

Right now, the Church of Scientology holds a record libel award of $1,6million in Canada, is sued for fraud in Belgium, is on cultwatch in both France and Germany, has several of its front groups like Applied Scholastics or Narconon banned all throughout Europe and Russia, is outright banned in Greece and enjoys a special tax exempt status _like no other religion_ in the United States of America not long after it was a known fact that Scientologists infiltrated several U.S. government institutions.

Please look into this organization more thoroughly next time; it is more than a harmless selfhelp group or a wacky ufo cult.
We Germans deeply treasure our constitution that was given to us by the Allied Forces after the inexcusable crimes against humanity that was the Shoa, the attempted systematic killing of a whole ethnity, and the inaction against the rise of a fascist regime on two occasions. But in the case of Scientology, the freedom of religion this organization hides behind right now will not outweight our duty to never let a totalitarian, immoral and inhumane system spring and blossom right in front of our eyes again.

- Michael from Germany

"They are a religion largely based on self-improvement":

This writer is either a) woefully naive, or
b) a scientology plant.

In either case should not hold the position of journalist for the washington post, since either has an agenda (a sinister one, too) or is incapable of conducting basic research on the web.

$cientology is not a religion.

$cientology is a ripoff cult.

Germany has the right idea. Just like Canada regulates Amway and other pyramid deals, Germany is regulating a ripoff cult to protect the people.

$cientology costs BIG bucks, up to $300,000 to get past clear and up to the OT levels.

You cannot put a price on enlightenment.

$cientology is a scam.

I suggest the author read through some of L. Ron Hubbard's writings again. Hubbard made his intentions to make a new government and even commit genocide perfectly clear.
Unless, as some of my fellow posters believe, you're a Scientologist yourself. If you're an OT, you know perfectly well what I'm talking about.

TELL US Claire Hoffman, HOW MUCH DID THE CHURCH PAY YOU TO WRITE THIS ARTICLE???

SCIENTOLOGY IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION AND RELIGIOUS DEBATES ARE IRRELEVANT!

IMHO - Scientology is Evil and Tom Cruise practices Black Magic.

LRH studied w/ Aliester Crowley in 1945. His own son is quoted above saying “that he was Crowley’s successor”

If you read the teaching of both Aliester Crowley and L Ron Hubbard, they teach and believe the same things.

“The whole and sole object of all true magickal training is to become free from every kind of limitation.”
- Aleister Crowley, Magick in Theory and Practice

“Our whole activity tends to make an individual completely independent of any limitation.”
- L. Ron Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture (December, 1952)

Scientology’s symbols and the Satanic
The “S and double triangle” motif of Scientology’s main symbol probably derives from the black magic use of the snake symbol (the “wise serpent” or Satan) combined with a deconstruction into two triangles of the Star of David (rather like the reverse ritual of hanging the Christian cross upside down to signify devil worship). This symbol - the magical hexagram - was used by Hubbard and Parsons during their attempts at incarnating the Antichrist in human form.

The RTC (a main Scientology corporation) symbol contains the Dianetics triangle, which is a common magical symbol, representing the door of the Cabala, the letter Daleth. Hubbard indeed assigned it to the Greek equivalent of Daleth, Delta. The triangle on its base is also the symbol of Set, the Egyptian god called by some “the destroyer of man”, the male equivalent of Babalon. Indeed Crowley equates Set with Satan. Hubbard also used the “Daleth” triangle of the Egyptian destroyer-god Set as the Dianetic symbol.

Hubbard copied the back of Crowley’s Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main Scientology church cross and symbol.

The Sea Organization symbol of Scientology’s elite paramilitary division is also interesting. The five pointed star, or pentacle is the most commonly known symbol of magical power. It is held between two thirteen-leaved laurels.

The theta symbol used by Scientology is the central symbol of Crowley’s Ordo Templi Orientis, where it denotes “Thelma” or the will. Perhaps Hubbard’s “thetan” is pronounced to match with a lisped “Satan”? He was, after all, wry in his humor and such a subtle perverse twist and deceit of lower initiates would be entirely congruent with classical Satanism.

Crowley’s order - the OTO - had a common origin with the Thule group to which several members of the Nazi hierarchy belonged (including deputy party chairman Rudolph Hess). The sig rune used by the Nazis - appears on the Scientology International Management Organization’s symbol - a red square enclosing a white disc and set off by four lightning flashes or sig runes. The swastika of the Nazi flag has been replaced by the Scientology “S and double triangle”. The symbol of the Religious Technology Center is surrounded by sig runes. The sig rune is otherwise peculiar to the Nazis.

L. Ron, junior, was sure that the teachings of the pre-Nazi Germanen Orden and the Thule secret societies had passed directly to his father by courier. No explanation is given for using these sig runes by Scientology. At the time that both of these symbols were introduced, Hubbard also created the International Finance Police, headed by the International Finance Dictator. An significant choice of words.

I repeat:

Hubbard copied the back of Crowley’s Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main Scientology church cross and symbol.

Somebody didn't do their homework. First of all, why is the Co$ being discussed in a column entitled "Under God"? Scientology has nothing to do with God. Don't take my word for it, ask them. The closest they get to "God" is their unholy worship of their founder, L. Ron Hubbard. Scientology is essentially a cult of lie-detector users whose leaders rely on extortion, terrorism, and mind-control to keep the money rolling in. It's closer to Amway than to religion. What kind of religion makes you keep "stats" to show how much money you're bringing in to the organization? Another responder said that just because you call it a religion doesn't mean that it is one. I agree! Germany already knows this. Smart people -- they recognize a dangerous group of hoods when they see one, having had a good bit of practice with a similar group, the Nazis.

Jeanne wrote:
"It's ironic the German government accuses Scientology of violating the constitution while at the same time refusing to hire Scientologists or depriving them of their jobs and not allowing them to join political parties based solely on their religious affiliation."

Jeanne, do your research. The German Gov. is quite right not to hire Scientologists to work in government jobs. Have you read ANYTHING about what those people would do in such positions, what they would be ORDERED TO DO by the cult if they worked in Gov. jobs? I think you are either a Scientologist or simply have not done your homework. As a Scientologist and working in local government I was routinely asked my my "church" to hand over confidential information on private citizens AND gather information on people working in government so they could be pressured. The deeper the dirt the more my former church liked it. Blackmail is a favored occupation among Scientologists and the SMART GERMANS are well aware of that.

Where is Ms. Hoffman to respond to all of this? Cowering in fear of being silenced by COS? Or, perhaps, she is COS herself, and her little PR trick backfired totally? Kind of like Oprah?

The "U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany for the practice in its annual Human Rights Report" says Claire Hoffman in her column. I can't wait for the day the U.S. will have regained the moral high-ground to convincingly condemn Germany (a state that has learned from history) in terms of its monitoring practices of a pseudo-religious and exploitative organization with a clearly anti-constitutional agenda. It would be civil-liberties preserving if the same people who defended Scientology raised their voices against prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib, eavesdropping on innocent citizens and CIA detention practices authorized by the Bush administration.

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

The "Church's" treatment? I think it's a stretch to call this entity a "church," and doing so exposes what may be the author's true intention - namely to legitimize Scientology by mainstreaming it into the American psyche.

Sorry Claire Hoffman, but the public isn't that gullible.

They are a religion that *claims* to be largely focused on self-improvement. In reality, they are a totalitarian cult. The world under Scientology would resemble Burma and North Korea more than any religious utopia.

Germany knows the dangers of totalitarianism firsthand, and is well within its rights to come down hard on the Church of Scientology.

according to the church of scientology I am a:

Communist, Nazi, Terrorist, Wife-Beating, Criminal who is poor yet paid by the pharmacuetical company.

This is a perfect example of fair game that the church denies yet still practices.

The truth is that i am neither a commie, nazi, or terrorist. im not married and i have never hit a woman. my record with the police is clean. I am remarkably poor i havent had a job since january (i have an interview tonight thought so heres hoping) and i have never recieved a check from the pill company in my life.

yes religions defintly should go around saying that teenagers are all these horrible things or thats at least what SCIENTOLOGY is hinting at.

according to the church of scientology I am a:

Communist, Nazi, Terrorist, Wife-Beating, Criminal who is poor yet paid by the pharmacuetical company.

This is a perfect example of fair game that the church denies yet still practices.

The truth is that i am neither a commie, nazi, or terrorist. im not married and i have never hit a woman. my record with the police is clean. I am remarkably poor i havent had a job since january (i have an interview tonight thought so heres hoping) and i have never recieved a check from the pill company in my life.

yes religions defintly should go around saying that teenagers are all these horrible things or thats at least what SCIENTOLOGY is hinting at.

Scientology isn't a religion. Its a money making cult that was started by a compulsive lair. Pretty much every part of Hubbard's "story" has been de-bunked as either lies or exaggeration. Scientology is nothing more than a new age vulture that preys on the weak and confused, it is little better than the Catholic church in the 15th & 16th century when it sold indulgences to raise money.
I support the actions of the German government and wish a few more governments would muscle up to this insidious, evil, organization.

Germany still collects church taxes for the official state churches that were awarded this preferential treatment by Hitler in exchange for not interfering with his holocaust plans.

The Church of Scientology - like many other religions in civilized nations - is financed by member donations, not tax extortion.

Scientologists in Germany are persecuted today by state churches (The Catholic church is run by an ex-Nazi-Pope) with the help of the so-called "Verfassungsschutz", the modern version of the GESTAPO.

The media gleefully stirs up the controversy, using the same old propaganda tactics against Scientologists as they employed against the Jews.

It's my understanding that Ponzi schemes are almost universally outlawed. Why should this one be any different?

Is Claire Hoffman a Scientology agent?

Her personal website:
clairehoffman.com/top-gun/

You decide.

Dear Claire,

Thanks very much for your article. Truthfully, German Scientologists have suffered for many years. Imagine losing your job or being expelled from a school because of one's religious beliefs - yet that's what has gone on in Germany for years.

There are those who will use your article to take a swipe at you and yet another against my church. Frankly, I'm bored with the continual dredging up of decades old stories and ex-members that purport to show the character of the Church of Scientology or its Founder.

It is typical of unreasoned hate speak to accuse a journalist of being in collusion with a group because the writer dared to state something positive about the Church. Incredible. It only shows how deep the religious prejudice and bigotry runs.

I know that this post is only going to throw gas on the fire as it will be derided and will undoubtedly fuel yet another salvo of bile from the hate speakers.

Honestly, I don't care.

I am proud to be a Scientologist, proud of my Church, and invite anyone who is ACTUALLY interested in finding out what Scientology is about (not the falsehoods that are continually spewed about on the Internet)to go to an online bookstore and order a book. Have the courage to read it and actually make your mind up for yourself. If it's not for you, fine. That's your choice. But please, don't infringe on my choice to follow my religion and knock off the hateful rhetoric.

Again, thank you for your article.

dear newsweek/washington post, your comments here are being censored. way to go, how impartial. like hiring someone who writes copy to order for the church of scientology, as is apparent from her blog. cancel my subscription etc

@Nazibuster:

1. There is no "official state church" in Germany.

2. "Germany still collects church taxes for the official state churches that were awarded this preferential treatment by Hitler in exchange for not interfering with his holocaust plans."

How do you explain the mass killings of priests and pastors by the "Werwolf"-squads roaming around countrysides long after the 8th of May 1945?

3. "The Catholic church is run by an ex-Nazi-Pope"

Pope Benedict's membership in the Hitler Youth is clear as day seeing that he is still alive today. Anyone not joining the "Hitlerjugend" in his youth would have painted a brick wall with his own blood sooner rather than later.

That's the beauty... or rather grimm reality... of totalitarian systems not unlike the Church of Scientology's own utopia of a "clear" and SP-free planet.

Please don't argue with us about our past. We're getting hyperschooled in it and we know what happened.

Let's get back on Scientology, shall we... why have several key members of Operation: Snow White of "U.S. government infiltration"-fame been pulled from the "Guardian Office" (now "OSA"), to be reassigned to Delphi Schools, Inc, another front group of Scientology?

Checkered past? First off thats a gross understatement and they are still doing outrageous things to people
Ask the good people at exscientologykids on the web if they would call it a "Checkered past"
They are not a religion they are CULT!! I praise Germany and wish all countries followed suit

topher: "I am proud to be a Scientologist, proud of my Church, and invite anyone who is ACTUALLY interested in finding out what Scientology is about (not the falsehoods that are continually spewed about on the Internet)to go to an online bookstore and order a book."

don't pay the scammers for their "religious" materials. the books are overpriced for a reason, to get you to pay them for their "knowledge." what other religion charges for access to its scripture? none. it's all available for free on the internet.

"How do you explain the mass killings of priests and pastors by the "Werwolf"-squads roaming around countrysides long after the 8th of May 1945?"

Easy enough: Just cause someone runs on a 'Christian values' platform doesn't mean they aren't a 'wolf in the sheepfold.' Doesn't mean Hitler didn't have a certain amount of backing, just cause he turned around and did some nasty things to some of those backers once he had power.

Like the SA.

Scientology is not a religion; it is a dangerous cult which aims to rid the world of everyone who's not like them. Germany has a bit of a history with that. Germans know a dangerous cult when they see it.

If you would do some actual research into the "teachings" of Scientology, you would find that Sea Org coerces young women into abortions; even children are sent to the RPF, which is basically a forced labor camp; their front group CCHR blames WWII (as well as a lot of the other ills of the world) on psychiatry.

Their cruise ship, Freewinds, is currently having the blue asbestos removed. After they did nothing about it for years. They had been advised of the asbestos in 1987 by architect Lawrence Woodcraft. Workers have refittted the ship more than once in between then and now. Tom Cruise's birthday party was held on the ship. And they are STILL denying that it was ever a problem. How many have been exposed? We don't know, but I'm betting the number is higher than in the hundreds.

With articles like this, the American public is not seeing the truth. WaPo, you fell down on this one big-time.

Scientology is a cult which promotes the separation of its members from their non-Scientology family. They manipulate members to extract money from them in the name of "self-improvement", they are the only "religion" I know of where you have to pay to have access to the "churches" teachings. They sue anybody who reveals aspects of their "religious" documents; what do THEY have to hide. In addition they promote the withholding of mental health care from members which has in Australia resulted in the death, through suicide, of at least one member.
Germany is right in it's treatment of Scientology, the US and Australia through granting religious status to such a con-job are wrong.

Topher - Tell me how warning people of the health hazards present on the Freewinds is
"hatespeak"? The Freewinds is docked for asbestos removal right now.

Loose blue asbestos on the Freewinds is not something made up by "hatemongers" Please, if you have been aboard the Freewinds get yourself checked for signs of mesolthelioma.

The management knew about this problem for YEARS.

You may think me a "wog"/"suppressive"/"bigot" but what I say here is only to help.

I believe that groups like Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and Church of Latter Day Saints run afoul of German law, because recognition by the state of a lawful religious practice requires that a member of the group be guaranteed the freedom to leave the group without fear of sanction or retribution.

None of these groups can fulfill this requirement.

Indeed, all of them either shun (LDS, JW) or actively retaliate (Scientology) against members who leave them. These practices are not just social habits, but are part of the dogma informing and shaping their group coherence and identity.

As I understand it, German religious freedom extends to the protection of the right of the citizen to be free to change their affiliation.

It's a different system with different rules. To my mind it is extremely fair and insightful.

Scientology classifies itself as a church merely to reap the legal advantages of that identification.

Over the years I've known a couple of people who were bilked out of their life savings by the "Church" of Scientology.

It seems to me a ban of Scientology can be justified in much the same spirit as the laws against harmful drugs: to protect people from being grossly damaged by their own stupidity.

The "ideas" of Scientology should be freely available, of course. Let people read L. Ron's drivel to their heart's content. But the organized practices of The Church of Scientology are a fraudulent con game. Those who profit from them should be jailed.

Ooops, I meant to address my comment in my last post to topher, not Claire.

Blog owner is free to correct.

I don't thinks so, laws that protect people from there own stupidity take power from the individual and put them in the hands of the state, such a thing is, in my book, 'bad'.

what you can do however is make laws that protect you from OTHER people's stupidity, like drunk driving laws. in this respect the CoS is known to cause problems for people who are not scientologists. anyone who disagrees with scientology "can be tricked lied to or destroyed", I want laws that will protect me from that.

I don't want to go online and order a book about Scientology from their website, I'd like to be able to just READ IT ONLINE, FOR FREE. If the message seems to offer spiritual fulfillment, then I'll donate my money for the Good Works of the Church. Otherwise, it seems a lot like just another male size enhancement spam to me.

@Paganplace

> Easy enough: Just cause someone runs on a 'Christian values' platform doesn't mean they aren't a 'wolf in the sheepfold.'

Wheather or not you think that Pius XI willingly sided with the "devil" that was Hitler and his crusade against Judaism after the "Reichskonkordat" (and I actually tend to think so), you'll find yourself between a rock and a hard place arguing that the Catholic Church under Pius XII was fully behind Hitler's Plans after the persecution of Polish Christians.

Let's get back to Scientology one more time... why was Mary DeMoss' name completely purged from the newly relaunchend CCHR website?

"Germany still collects church taxes for the official state churches that were awarded this preferential treatment by Hitler in exchange for not interfering with his holocaust plans."

Oh man, you Scilons really have no clue about German history now do you?
Church taxes in Germany have their origin in the early 19th century... contracts between Church and State have early examples like the Concordat of Worms in 1122( yes that's elvenhundred twenty two) long before even Hitler's Granddad was born! The first german state, and guess wha,t they were many, many independet german states in history that collected a church tax was Detmold-Lippe in 1827, Preussian started doing so in 1906 after years of the so called 'Kulturkampf' (culture struggle) with the Catholic Church for the seperation of State and Church. But I am sure this was all an evil masterplan by the german emperor, under whose rule the emancipation of Jews in Europe was the most progressed, to let later an Austian born madman exterminate them... sure!

"The Church of Scientology - like many other religions in civilized nations - is financed by member donations, not tax extortion."
So Belgium, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Austria and Switzerland are all UNCIVILIZED nations? You wish!

"Scientologists in Germany are persecuted today by state churches (The Catholic church is run by an ex-Nazi-Pope) with the help of the so-called "Verfassungsschutz", the modern version of the GESTAPO."

Since you are so well versed: who and when was one Scietologist persecuted for believing that an evil warlord named Xenu existed and that there are thetans and engramms? And is 'Gestapo' the only word you know? Did you learn that in an old movie? How about 'Stasi' for a change? And please name the workcamps and special prisons for criminal Scientologists... I bet you can't.. 'Cause they are just implants by your own "church", which it isn't in Germany, get that in your head!
BTW we have seperation of state and church, there is no state church in Germany or we'd have another 30years war on hour hands this time between Catholics, Protestants and Atheist who all make up about 30% of the population fighting for supremacy. But then again NOT because most germans only go to church on christmas and the largly Atheist dominated areas the majority never goes to church ever.. So which church is guilty of persecuting today.. oh yes.. "Church" of Scientology.
FYI the Greek government banned you scilons in 1995 altogether from greek soil. You're not even allowed as business there, which "Hitler" is responsible for that? Sokrates? Aristoteles or Alexander the Great?

"The media gleefully stirs up the controversy, using the same old propaganda tactics against Scientologists as they employed against the Jews."

As German Jew I am deeply offended! How do you even dare to compare your criminal organization and Nazi-like Ideology to the suffering of the Jews in Europe and not only Jews but Sinti and Roma, Homosexuals, Social democrats, Communists and brave citizens. You should seriously check your head and try again.

When I first read the article I was absolutely shocked! After reading through the comments I'm not quite sure whether to calm down or to be even more concerned...

On the one hand I am glad to see that certainly the majority of you bring along the intelligence to critically evaluate this article and try to consider the German point of view.
On the other hand I am so sad about how constricted the way of thinking of some of the readers is - fortunately the minority! I think I don't have to comment on "Nazibuster" - he just tries to provoke at the lowest possible level. I'm going to report his comment as offensive and so should everybody else! Well actually I would like to report the whole article as offensive but regrettably the webmaster forgot to include this feature.

A small example of Scientology's methods to bait fragile minds:

At the entrance of my University in Berlin I am regularly encountered by ambivalent people who hand out flyers to students. The flyers encourage you to participate in a mental test - it is named "Oxford-Test"! The city of Oxford should sue them for abusing this reputable name!
Anyway... the funny(?) thing is that everybody who participates in this test will get noticeably similar results: your state of mind is "unstable", "weak", "labile", "disoriented", etc. Similar fatal diagnoses occur. The final suggestion: we are your "redeemers" - your problem solver... join us!

It is so distressing how people are being taken by this!

I sincerely hope that the German government is going to manage to stick to its rigorous refusal of this superfluous but dangerous organisation named "Scientology".

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

Actually, no. Germany has been against totalitarian, authoritarian, cultic regimes since they last let a totalitarian, authoritiarian, cultic regime gain power. How they're treating Scientology just shows they've learned from their past and will not let another tyrannical group take root in their land.

If anything, they're being wise and are protecting freedom by acting against this cult which endorses eugenics (google "quietly and without sorrow").

When I first read the article I was absolutely shocked! After reading through the comments I'm not quite sure whether to calm down or to be even more concerned...

On the one hand I am glad to see that certainly the majority of you bring along the intelligence to critically evaluate this article and try to consider the German point of view.
On the other hand I am so sad about how constricted the way of thinking of some of the readers is - fortunately the minority! I think I don't have to comment on "Nazibuster" - he just tries to provoke at the lowest possible level. I'm going to report his comment as offensive and so should everybody else! Well actually I would like to report the whole article as offensive but regrettably the webmaster forgot to include this feature.

A small example of Scientology's methods to bait fragile minds:

At the entrance of my University in Berlin I am regularly encountered by ambivalent people who hand out flyers to students. The flyers encourage you to participate in a mental test - it is named "Oxford-Test"! The city of Oxford should sue them for abusing this reputable name!
Anyway... the funny(?) thing is that everybody who participates in this test will get noticeably similar results: your state of mind is "unstable", "weak", "labile", "disoriented", etc. Similar fatal diagnoses occur. The final suggestion: we are your "redeemers" - your problem solver... join us!

It is so distressing how people are being taken by this!

I sincerely hope that the German government is going to manage to stick to its rigorous refusal of this superfluous but dangerous organisation named "Scientology".

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

Actually, no. Germany has been against totalitarian, authoritarian, cultic regimes since they last let a totalitarian, authoritiarian, cultic regime gain power. How they're treating Scientology just shows they've learned from their past and will not let another tyrannical group take root in their land.

If anything, they're being wise and are protecting freedom by acting against this cult which endorses eugenics (google "quietly and without sorrow").

To Poink Future . . .
You ask is Claire an agent of the "Church"? Judging from the ugly picture of DM she creates in her post, I'd say not. Just because she's fairly balanced in her post as far as presenting the incredibly sleazy Mike Rinder's shore stories doesn't mean she's "one of them". Just my opinion though . . . she'll have to speak for herself once she digs out from under her inbox.

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

Actually, no. Germany has been against totalitarian, authoritarian, cultic regimes since they last let a totalitarian, authoritiarian, cultic regime gain power. How they're treating Scientology just shows they've learned from their past and will not let another tyrannical group take root in their land.

If anything, they're being wise and are protecting freedom by acting against this cult which endorses eugenics (google "quietly and without sorrow").

They fear cults and cult activity, both of which should be illegal in the United States. If this were the case, we would not have abominations like FLDS.

Nazibuster:

"Scientologists in Germany are persecuted today by state churches (The Catholic church is run by an ex-Nazi-Pope) with the help of the so-called "Verfassungsschutz", the modern version of the GESTAPO."

you either have got no idea what the GESTAPO was or you play down the nazi crimes here.

Topher:

"Frankly, I'm bored with the continual dredging up of decades old stories"

You're fully within your rights to be bored by this and I understand it must be painful to acknowledge this, but these stories aren't all decades old. The declaration of Astra Woodcraft is from 2001, the raids on the greece Scientology center happened in the 1990ies, Lisa McPherson died in 1995. The tax exempt status was gained by bypassing the usual IRS procedures in 1993. The belgium Scientology center in Brussels was raided less than a month ago. The SP Hall situation at Int Base is allegedly going on till this very day.

The ability to confront is really important in this context, it's just a question of ethics.

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

Actually, no. Germany has been against totalitarian, authoritarian, cultic regimes since they last let a totalitarian, authoritiarian, cultic regime gain power. How they're treating Scientology just shows they've learned from their past and will not let another tyrannical group take root in their land.

If anything, they're being wise and are protecting freedom by acting against this cult which endorses eugenics (google "quietly and without sorrow").

Apologies for the triple-post, I was getting no confirmation screen :3

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

I just read possibly the most insane article I have ever read.

Nope, I think the only reason why a dangerous, bloodthirsty and brainwashing cult has managed to be around so long is because said cult practices a policy of "fair game" on all its critics, seeking to destroy them by any means necessary.

As sad as the truth is, the Germans are the sensible ones here. They see the connection between the sadism and fascism practiced by the COS, and the sadism and fascism practiced by the 3rd Reich. They have been through this before.

I note that the writer does not mention COS's quest to dominate the world, and destroy all their detractors, just as she does not mention fair game, brainwashing, the child slavery practiced at Sea Org and other COS "bases," or the policy of family disconnection, which is necessary to isolate its brainwashing victims.

Man, I just can't believe that the writer has utterly failed to do ANY research before making such absurd statements. A simple google would have informed her her position was unfathomably uninformed.

In fact, she seems to be simply repeating a COS press release. Man o man, i just can't believe this story coming from the WP.

This is to the author and editors of the article.

scientology abuse -drug

google it.

we did the "minus drug" to cut out all of their ideas that psychiatry is responsible for the evils of the world and has been controlling mankind for MILLIONS of years... yes, they actually believe that.

anyway, so look it up. and when your soul turns black from reading it, realize that some people would rather live in a fairy world while being eaten by sharks, than to fight the sharks themselves.

"Ban Scientology? Doesn't that seem kind of extreme? They are a religion largely focused on self-improvement. While I'm well aware of their checkered past, decrying it unconstitutional seems like a threatened position to take by a nation."

Ban the Nazis? Doesn't that seem kind of extreme? They are a party largely focused on helping the German race. While I'm well aware of their checkered past, decrying it unconstitutional seems like a threatened position to take by a nation.

Hey! You guys are oppressing me! Er... repressing me! Suppressives! Evil Supressive Persons!

Joking aside, deo you even know what that really means, Ms. Hoffman? What a Supressive Person is? Research it and see if it strikes you as a legitimate religious beliefs or one of the classic hallmarks of a Cult? People using the "C" word (hint: not Church) is NOT hype. NOT a coincidence. There's a valid reason they do. Unless of course you ask the Cult Awareness Network...

Oh wait. You don't know the story of how the "Church" of Scientology helped drive the (then) very well respected Cult Awareness Network OUT of business and then bought up the name and phone numbers to control a source of dissent? Look this UP if you don't believe me. This ISN'T "tin foil" conspiracy talk--its ALL publicly documented. 60 Minutes did the story. Would you believe what 60 Minutes says if not me? What kind of real Church does this kind of stuff?

Bob - good point! The takeover of the Cult Awareness Network by Scientology was just one of the many examples.

No, I'm sorry. Unlike here in the United States, Germany, after its experience with an almost religious cult, learned that "values," even if couched in religion, should not be protected if they are in opposition to a country's constitution.

Too many times in the United States, hate is allowed free reign in the name of "religious freedom" -- as if any religion truly endorsed hate.

I have read these comments with interest. I am not a specialist, but have read on scientology ideas on the internet, and talked to several people who have done one of their courses here in Europe.

This thing could very well become a religion. The Xenu story of the 76 overpopulated planets and the souls which have been sent out in clusters, one of which have become us, is not really any crazier than the adam and eve story. There seem to have been some low life and prostitutes at its origin, but that is not unlike christianity. It has borrowed from other creeds, not unlike the major religions.

One problem I see, is that they render services for payment. They give you schooling, and you pay for the courses. How can that give them a tax exemption ?

Another point, about the Germans. The author missed something on Europe, here. Take christianity. It has been a religion for 17 to 20 centuries. However, in the days of the European inquisition and the pogroms, when people got tortured, burned, and killed in other ways, the christian church were clearly anti-current-constitutional. I think I would have wanted to stop them, and many Europeans are with me in this. So I fail to see this author's point about constitution and this particular, maybe, religion, when there are signs of coercion, illegal practices, and ethics of which the German state apparently concluded that they won't do society any good. She could have spent some words on that, instead of hurrying to finish her article with an authority-based argument like "They are a religion".

Ms. Claire Hoffman,

I would like to take this moment and respectfully request that you look into the current, ongoing, and unconscionable acts perpetrated by the "Church" of Scientology.

To put it simply, I ask you this: What criminal traits do you think of when asked to describe the notorious mafia syndicates of the 1920's?

You will find that the current Scientology organization commits the very same heinous acts (and more) on a worldwide scale.

Germany is Winston. We live in 1984.

This is nothing but irresponsible journalism.
Obviously the author didn't do her homework.
Get the facts!

Ms. Claire Hoffman,

I would like to take this moment and respectfully request that you look into the current, ongoing, and unconscionable acts perpetrated by the "Church" of Scientology.

To put it simply, I ask you this: What criminal traits do you think of when asked to describe the notorious mafia syndicates of the 1920's?

You will find that the current Scientology organization commits the very same heinous acts (and more) on a worldwide scale.

Germany is Winston. We live in 1984.

Suomynona wrote:

IMHO - Scientology is Evil and Tom Cruise practices Black Magic.

LRH studied w/ Aliester Crowley in 1945. His own son is quoted above saying “that he was Crowley’s successor”

If you read the teaching of both Aliester Crowley and L Ron Hubbard, they teach and believe the same things.

“The whole and sole object of all true magickal training is to become free from every kind of limitation.”
- Aleister Crowley, Magick in Theory and Practice

“Our whole activity tends to make an individual completely independent of any limitation.”
- L. Ron Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture (December, 1952)

Scientology’s symbols and the Satanic
The “S and double triangle” motif of Scientology’s main symbol probably derives from the black magic use of the snake symbol (the “wise serpent” or Satan) combined with a deconstruction into two triangles of the Star of David (rather like the reverse ritual of hanging the Christian cross upside down to signify devil worship). This symbol - the magical hexagram - was used by Hubbard and Parsons during their attempts at incarnating the Antichrist in human form.

The RTC (a main Scientology corporation) symbol contains the Dianetics triangle, which is a common magical symbol, representing the door of the Cabala, the letter Daleth. Hubbard indeed assigned it to the Greek equivalent of Daleth, Delta. The triangle on its base is also the symbol of Set, the Egyptian god called by some “the destroyer of man”, the male equivalent of Babalon. Indeed Crowley equates Set with Satan. Hubbard also used the “Daleth” triangle of the Egyptian destroyer-god Set as the Dianetic symbol.

Hubbard copied the back of Crowley’s Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main Scientology church cross and symbol.

The Sea Organization symbol of Scientology’s elite paramilitary division is also interesting. The five pointed star, or pentacle is the most commonly known symbol of magical power. It is held between two thirteen-leaved laurels.

The theta symbol used by Scientology is the central symbol of Crowley’s Ordo Templi Orientis, where it denotes “Thelma” or the will. Perhaps Hubbard’s “thetan” is pronounced to match with a lisped “Satan”? He was, after all, wry in his humor and such a subtle perverse twist and deceit of lower initiates would be entirely congruent with classical Satanism.

Crowley’s order - the OTO - had a common origin with the Thule group to which several members of the Nazi hierarchy belonged (including deputy party chairman Rudolph Hess). The sig rune used by the Nazis - appears on the Scientology International Management Organization’s symbol - a red square enclosing a white disc and set off by four lightning flashes or sig runes. The swastika of the Nazi flag has been replaced by the Scientology “S and double triangle”. The symbol of the Religious Technology Center is surrounded by sig runes. The sig rune is otherwise peculiar to the Nazis.

L. Ron, junior, was sure that the teachings of the pre-Nazi Germanen Orden and the Thule secret societies had passed directly to his father by courier. No explanation is given for using these sig runes by Scientology. At the time that both of these symbols were introduced, Hubbard also created the International Finance Police, headed by the International Finance Dictator. An significant choice of words.

I repeat:

Hubbard copied the back of Crowley’s Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main Scientology church cross and symbol.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

WOW... The world needs to know this. If the world knew Scientology was founded by a Satanist to create tons of unknowing brainwashed Satanist.. all the misplaced sympathy for this Cult would disappear.

I've recently reviewed a great deal of material about the Church of Scientology. I've been to the COS org website, as well as the critics websites, like the xenu website and the lermanet website. I've reviewed actual COS documents and LRH's own handwritten documents.

I think it is, indeed, a cult that engages in brainwashing which seeks to rob its victims blind, and disconnect them from their families and friends, so the brainwashing works.

I like Tony Ortega's point, from the Village Voice, "Scientology is a money-making scam that doesn’t tell its own believers until they’ve paid hundreds of thousands of dollars that the point of all their classes and lie-detector machines is to remove space-alien souls from the human body."

Also, Google "fair game" Google "Lisa McPherson." Basically, the COS destroys critics with any means necessary, and also destroy their own members, after bleeding them for every penny.

The washingtonpost.com "Discussion Guidelines" states:

3. You understand and agree that the discussion forums are to be used only for non-commercial purposes. You may not solicit funds, promote commercial entities or otherwise engage in commercial activity in our discussion forums

PLEASE.. Disregard all post submitted by Scientologist.

Why isn't Embezzlement a religion yet? or how about "The Temple of Child Abuse"? does criminal activity become legal if I call it a religion?

Topher:

I am glad that you are a proud member of your church, faith should be a strong factor in peoples lives no matter what. However, the very fact that you describe criticism against your church as "Hate Speech and bigotry" is absolutley insulting. As a person who has had 3 decades of family affected by the troubles in Northern Ireland. the very notion that you are comparing their plight to the posting of sourced and accurate statements from Scientology publications, court procedings and judgements is outright ludicrous.

The throwing of incinidary devices into religious buildings, the bigoted asaults and the defamatory language of opposite sides in that conflict. That is hate speech and a true example of bigotry. Prank calls, researched statements and legal protest is not hate speech. No Scientologist has died, lost family or been persecuted for their faith by anonymous and it will most likely stay that way.

I do not like Anonymous. Anonymous is childish, arrogant and bullish. However, they source from multiple publications and use research and data to further their goals. So far Scientology has only sourced their statements from their own side(believing it to be the only authority) and have made equally childish statements such as calling Anonymous "Cyber terrorists who's guiding materials include "Mein Kamph and the Communist Manifesto".

I am glad you are happy being a Scientologist and you have found your faith when many people flounder and struggle to find their own. Your answer to these comments, however,is truly disgraceful and an insult to those who have experienced the loss and harm caused by true religious bigotry. Defending your faith is one thing. Comparing a couple of factual posts to decades of hurt, loss and suffering is completely different.

Everyone please. Stop, think and then post.

The overwhelming amount of vitriol directed at Scientology is amazing, and truly misses the point. Whether your looking at mainstream Christianity, Islamic sects, or Hindu nationalists, you can find many instances of inhuman treatment of others, and and 'cult' like groupthink. You can do that just as well with sectarian ideologies (Soviet communism, Nazism, ethnic warfare, etc). Should we ban all religions, and then after that, all groups? Should we just ban the religions that the majority doesn't like? Is that progress? If your metric for banning a religion is deceit, groupthink, filling the coffers, well, then ban them all. Then ban political parties, sports, and bingo too. Ban all the little old ladies that keep to themselves too much. Or maybe when someone breaks a regular old secular law, we punish them, according to the law. Otherwise, let them be. If everyone stopped hyperventilating for a minute, they might realize how little sense they are making.

John Grady - Have you overlooked the fact that Scientology management covered up the presence of blue asbestos on their religious cruise ship the Freewinds since 1987?

I'll *defintely* say that Scientology's claims that criticism of their organization is 'hate speech' are the claims of privileged people who've never *experienced* real hate speech, or the actions that come of it.

Seriously. You don't get to cry 'hate speech' when someone doesn't listen to threats from your thousand-dollar-an-hour *lawyers.*

Seriously.

My religion ain't too popular, either, and someone might take a baseball bat to me for anything from their idea of Cotton Mather to their idea of Harry Potter.

If I can have a modicum of a sense of humor about *that,* lacking any private armies of lawyers or whatever, *you can look at what you're doing, and maybe somewhere in your 'superior' mind figure out why you look *stupid* claiming to be 'oppressed' when you, well, *pretty much are the rich dudes wanting to obliterate everyone else.* Or so your stuff says.

I'm all for religious diversity, but, hey.

This is L. Ron *Hubbard* we're talking about here.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

And he *did* make the religion on a bet.

Scientology has too much money and influence and ideological professions of being willing to lie, cheat, sue, and *destroy* critics and dissenters to whine about 'hate speech.'

You're big kids, Scientologists. It's not to single you out, but, dag.

People who got that much money and privilege *don't* get to whine 'oppression' when someone says the books look hinky.

A few quotes from the founder of Scientology:

SCIENTOLOGY FOUNDER L. RON HUBBARD ON CRITICS

"Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued, or lied to or destroyed." - L Ron Hubbard, HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967

HUBBARD ON TRUTH

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them." - L. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418

HUBBARD ON GAYS AND LESBIANS

"The sexual pervert (and by this term Dianetics, to be brief, includes any and all forms of deviation in dynamic two such as homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc., and all down the catalog of Ellis and Krafft-Ebing) is actually quite ill physically... he is very far from culpable for his condition, but he is also far from normal and extremely dangerous to society." - L. Ron Hubbard, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health.

HUBBARD ON JESUS CHRIST

"For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure he has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads." - L. Ron Hubbard, HCO Bulletin of 5 May 1980

Yeah, this sounds like a real religion to me :rolleyes:

While many bad things have been done in the name of religion, the goal of religion is to establish and maintain peace and love in society. Scientology seeks to eliminate by any means neccessary those who oppose it.

In spite of your loving defence of the cult Claire, the line "While I'm well aware of their checkered past" alone makes you a Potential Trouble Source to them. Your name and this article now appears in their files.

Religions do not do this. Cults do.

Summary of this article: "All sorts of vicious crimes against humanity are okay if you claim you have religious reasons to do so. Anyone who says these vicious crimes must be stopped are bigots who have something to hide."

I completely agree with Ari's comment that even if something is the government considers legitimate religion (the medieval Catholic Church), it does not mean that the religion is not corrupt.

Interviews from ex-Scientologists such as Astra Woodcraft detail the abuses of Scientology. When she was a young teenager, Scientology made her work 80 hours a week for a tiny fraction of minimum wage. When Ms. Woodcraft was 15, she was married off to a 22-year-old man. When she was 19, she became pregnant, and Scientology told her to abort her child because her child would get in the way of being a member of Scientology's "elite" Sea Organization. Other children and teenagers in the organization have been molested, then told by church authorities that it was completely THEIR fault that they were molested.

None of these abuses are by ANY means acceptable. Our society has spoken out against the sexual abuses of Catholic priests. Our government has taken a stand against the polygamy and child rape of the Fundamentalist Mormon Church. Now we need to make Scientology account for its crimes.

Mr. Grady:

The overwhelming fallacy of your example is that bingo groups, sports teams, etc., do not actively seek to extort their members/participants. If they do, they face immediate and harsh legal ramifications.

The Scientology organization willfully and knowingly extorts money from its members, and yet enjoys a state of tax exemption in the US that far exceeds that of any legitimate religion. It hides from the consequences of its illegal actions by screaming "Bigotry!" and "Hate speech!" if its atrocious methods are called into question.

The German government is not on a witchhunt. They have made a clear moral choice to ban a criminal organization. A pyramid scheme under the guise of a church.

@John Grady

"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the tone scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints." - L. Ron Hubbard, "Science of Survival"

---

"* Art 1
(1) Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority
(2) The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world." - Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany

***

"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'. By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not." - L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 4 Jan 1966

---

"* Art 9
(2) Associations whose aims or activities contravene the criminal laws, or
that are directed against the constitutional order or the concept of international understanding, shall be prohibited." - Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany

Sorry, John. But your religion's own policies are the sole problem here.

I did think the Crowley connections someone brought up were, interesting, though it goes too far to presume that that makes Scientologists 'Satanic.' (And certainly, trying to connect Thelema to 'Thetanism' is a little silly in that Theta is a letter, and you may as well be connecting Red China to Constantine and the 'Chi Rho' symbol.

Not that, as a sci-fi writer, one wouldn't *expect* Hubbard to be aware of these symbolisms. But Crowley, well, he was sort of a mad explorer, a contrarian, a tester of limits, and very much a product of his time.

It's a bit of an irony that I always used to refer to Scientology as, "Unsympathetic magic." I don't think much of Thelemite things, but blowing it all up into a Satanic conspiracy only blinds understanding, both of Thelema and what's *really* public business about Scientology. It's not like they don't use similar tactics to a number of Fundie groups, some of which the likes of even Mike Huckabee are in bed with.

It's not the 'religion,' ...it's the money and the power.

Here in America, it is not Germany. In America, I think it is both a good and bad point of us that we choose to accept certain risks because we believe in our American ways. And, yes, the Scientology organization, like so many others, seeks to pervert and manipulate that system. But this is the price of freedom, here. Eternal vigilance. So the system serves and protects all, including those who would exploit it. One we must not forget to pay.

Germany has different things in mind. They been led up bad paths by similar organizations a few times. This is not about suppressing theology n theocratic ways, ...it's about saying 'no' to organizations that abuse sytems.

That abuse power.

We choose to take different risks, here in America. I say to Scientologists, don't make us wrong. If religious freedom is *really* what you want.

I guess Jim Jones was a harmless little "religion" also, poor investigation into scientology, but most journalists are lazy today...or on someones payroll...or afraid of scientology

While it is probably foolish to think that the author will read through all of these comments, one does hope that the volume will perhaps indicate that there is something more to this topic than can be flippantly addressed in a few paragraphs.

Where is Scientology Volueenter Ministers at the Myanmmar Typhoon Disaster?

Did not Jesus say in Matthew 7:18-20, "Beware of false prophets,...You will know them by their fruits... A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit... Therefore by their fruits you will know them"

What are the fruits of Scientology?

wow. you must not have read enough about what they do when you try to leave scientology. you put your name on the article. i dare you to write an article distinguishing them between a real religion and a cult. they are a money-making cult.

they are going to threaten you with a lawsuit, then try to get you fired, then ruin your credit. no religion does that.

Scientologists mock the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ by incorporating the symbol of his ultimate sacrifice into their New Age cult. Where are the politicians in Washington who will deal with this scam which preys upon the weak and the helpless? Where are the social services who will deliver the poor children whose minds are twisted and perverted by Hubbard's insane and uneducated ramblings? (I will not give them the dignity of the word "teachings")

God will judge all of us for what we do and do not do.

Micheal, this is one of the things Hubbard had to say about Christ.

"Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified." Hubbard - From "Assists" lecture. 3 October 1968. #10 in the confidential Class VIII series

Ah, yeah, 'Tom.' Random homophobia and screams 'They Aren't Christian!' will *really* shed some light on the matter. Yah.

I mean, you know, 'Tom,' and others, I don't happen to approve of a lot of things the Scientology organization does, but one bunch of homophobes who believe some manner of superior alien intelligence told them they had a right to lord it over and hurt folks like me with temporal and financial and legal power *really does* seem much like another, if that's the level you prefer to work on.

the organization destroys the lives of people who disagree with them. for heaven's sakes, they were convicted of the largest case of government infiltration in american history and held liable for the attempted murder of the first journalist to write a book on their organization.

thank heavens that germany has learned enough from its history to recognize when it's time to intervene in the interest of protecting people from those would use constitutional freedoms to exploit the most vulnerable amongst us--children, drug addicts, and the mentally ill.

www.exscientologykids.com

Scientology is violent and mean-spirited. I would say their "religion" is not compatable with any civil government. At least not in its present form.

It's quite evident that scientology has been banned in UK, NZ, SA, AU, is criticized in mostbcountries where it installs its Profits Centers (they call them "churches").

It's under justice for fraud, has been heavily sentenced all the way up to Supreme Courts in many countries, and one of those countrties would not be allowed to investigate the methods of the cult?
Don't forget: Hubbard was sentneced to foud years unsuspended in France, 1978, for fraud t100% linked to scientology. See:
www.antisectes.net/jugt78eng.htm

I rarely see a response rate to a blog of such volume. My hope is that response rate will not be equated with success by the Washington Post leadership. Because while the volume is impressive, the 99% negative response rate to the article and the many posts commenting on the naive reporting show that such work diminishes not only the credibility of the author but harms the credibility of an otherwise great newspaper.

And one comment on the article: freedom is one of the great achievements of this country, but its protection is first and foremost afforded to the individual, not an organization.

Jim Grady,

Mike Rinder blew,
You can too!

Then Mary DeMoss,
Damn, that was a loss!

Tee Hee

Paganplace said:

"I mean, you know, 'Tom,' and others, I don't happen to approve of a lot of things the Scientology organization does, but one bunch of homophobes who believe some manner of superior alien intelligence told them they had a right to lord it over and hurt folks like me with temporal and financial and legal power *really does* seem much like another, if that's the level you prefer to work on."

Jesus! Was that one long sentence"?
Part of the confusion technique?

Ok. I agree our main focus should be about the crimes, deaths and disconnections, but its also important the world knows about LRH's connection with Crowley & Co$'s roots. Just my opinion.

This post is uninformed and disingenuous. The Germans are wary of cults of personalities. I wonder why? Also, with a literally tortured history on gay issues in Germany, a homophobic cult stirs up unwanted extreme sentiments. As for Tommy boy, he's like a scab that just won't heal.

Claire,

You write "Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state." I do not wonder about that. I wonder why the US government isn't doing the same, they should not have tax exempt status in the US. This "religion" is corrupt and criminal. I applaud Germany and wish more countries in the world would do the same.

You write "They are a religion largely focused on self-improvement. While I'm well aware of their checkered past, decrying it unconstitutional seems like a threatened position to take by a nation." Obviously you are not informed. Obviously you haven't really done your research. They are not focused on self-improvement. They are focused on mind control, they are focused on money. What religion costs more than $50,000 a year? Checkered past? They have more than a checkered past. As a reporter you really have a responsibility to do some research before you make statements like that. How about murder, how about kidnapping, how about excessive litigation to silence critics. Why don't you go to YouTube and type in scientology. You will get a first hand look at what they do. I have to wonder about you. Are you a scientologist in hiding? Come clean.

Concerned in Canada

Well Claire,
The results are in. Were you trying to learn something from your incitement?
Or are you really so lazy, uninformed, naive or owned by scientology that you thought a piece like that would pass for legitimate journalism?
Sorry you shirked your responsibilities as a journalist and human being. Sorrier still to see the Washington Post allow you to put it up.
I hope you have the opportunity to do a follow-up article that addresses the issues brought up in the comments.
From your statements in the article, I'm guessing you don't have internet access where you work. You should start with that.

Are you kidding me? Have they paid you? Don't even call yourself a journalist.

It is time to stop the nonsense criticism, some say "ohh gosh..get the facts" and here I stand questioning those who dare to attack scientology. I have read some of their books, know some scientologists and have seen how they are constantly active in the community.

The scientology controversy and the incredible length of these comments goes to show that scientology is having an effect that is being noticed.

I know of stories where organizations (including many new religious establishments) have gone under insidious attacks by those whose vested interest are being attacked. Many of these organizations with hidden agendas surreptitiously attack organizations such as the church of scientology.

In life, it is so easy to criticize an individual or a movement, it is rather harder to be someone who makes a change regardless of the criticism one will be open to receiving, to prove this, look at the incredible number of “critics” all over.

Germany has had a history of religious bigotry and it hasn’t totally changed. Why is scientology accepted now in so many places yet Germany continues to obstinately attack the church? Isn’t this rather suspicious of those who are laboriously attempting to ban the church from its country?

We know it is controversial but WHY? You guessed right, like many good man in history (who have been jailed, betrayed, cowardly murdered) the scientologist are opening eyes and bringing understanding to people. WOW who wants that?....I can think of a bunch of names who would rather keep us ignorant of what is really going on.

So…my recommendation…read the article, critique it, express your self BUT find out more about scientology before. They have their site at www. Scientology.org

Is that Elron in the cupboard?

Wow...I bet many of these comments come from those "annons" who are attacking the church left and right. It becomes rather annoying when these dudes keep attacking the church of Scientology with all sorts of biased comments. The church doesn't seem to be perfect (is there any "perfect" church?) but it seems to be doing a good job.

I bet you if you(Claire) had gone the same way and viciously attacked it just for the pleasure of it, you would have gotten RAVE reviews by these dudes.

Just keep on reporting, I am sure you had a reason to say what you did. After all, once you seem to say something good about these scientologists you are deemed a "failure" to journalism. That is rather sad but is what is happening.

JC,

Why is it that you RonDroids point to only one "true" place for information. You know the one, Scientology dot org. Why not tell them to google Scientology and see what gets more hits, positive or negative.

Spin your crap any way you want to, your profits are in the toilet. Your most famous public spokesman, Tom Cruise, is watching his career fail just like Valkyrie is. That piece of junk will be lucky to go straight to DVD.

That's OK, we understand you are just trying to get your stats up to avoid the RPF. Good luck!

This article has been added to Digg. I suggest everyone click on the Digg link under the article which will take you to the Digg page. Digg it and add your comments there as well. This article is outrageous. It is irresponsible reporting. Claire Hoffman has obviously not done her research. I expect more from the Washington Post.

YEAP....quick response....ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK....and it is not just a simple and well developed attack to what I said...hey dude..why the curses...ha? What are you upset at? I know my truth and you know yours! so you stick to developing a good argument rather than trashing mine and insulting. The article has its views and like many articles on line, one can read and either agree or disagree.

As far as referencing the "web", sure I need not say that, that is what many do...WELCOME TO FREEDOM! yet when many of these comments (and since many have now access to post as they please) come from whoever feels like writing anything, they are not always very reliable. After all you and I are now posting right? who should people believe..you or me? and why?

The idea here is to simply get well informed...not just from one side but from various sources but in the process let's not forget that in order to make a good decision one ought to look with care.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo...stop tracking every move of those who are saying something different from you and let them search!

JUST LOOK AND ASK BUT DON'T ASSUME BEFORE YOU DO!

Don't you people have a life? wasting time saying all of this stuff. by the way..there are some comments who label themselves "anonymous" who would go about saying something with out at least leaving some sort of name.

I read it and It didnt "freak me out"... my neighbor is related to a scientologist and she is quite a wonderful individual.

I've noticed that those articles online who trash Scientology don't get as much response as this one...hahaha...I guess the scientologists are making a good job at removing the dust that has settled in some areas...hahaha

I can't wait to see more...!

Not only should you Digg this article. You should write to the editors of The Washington Post. This article is so irresponsible. We need to report the "reporter".

CEO-Carolinelittle@wpni.com
executive.editor@wpni.com
letters@washpost.com

JC,

Nothing I said was untrue, But in your best SciLon spin you tried to make it seem like an attack.

What's next? "What are your crimes?" C'mon JC, just once, ask me! We know a plant when we see one.

And while we're here, please explain to me how THOUSANDS of ex-parishioners can all come up with the same stories of abuse and human rights violations despite not knowing one another. Don't you hate when that happens?

Once again, I dare you to suggest a google search rather than that one site you know will put a positive spin on the BS you're selling. Oh, that's right, you SciLons can't go anywhere near google without being declared! Some "church" you belong to, I love the dictatorial methods of forcing each and every one find THE EXACT SAME TRUTH.

A couple of comments below Nan is commenting.

Now, Nan, I know that you are being thought that any criticism to the church' management is an attack to your religious beliefs and with that to your personal integrity.

However, I'd want to urge you to really try and separate the two. It is your church' management that we are fighting. Virtually all of the abuses we talk about on this page, are extensively supported with evidence (several first hand accounts, internal documents and convictions throughout the world). Admittedly, the evidence of a few claims (in particular that Hubbard wrote that Jesus is a pedophile) is more sketchy and wouldn't hold up in court. Though evidence is still available, also for such an outrageous claim.

Your religious beliefs are your choice and your choice only, and we make an honest attempt at respecting them as much as possible.

I really hope that one day you will you do a doubt formula on the your church' management. For those reading this comment not familiar with Scientology terms: this is a process where you gather impartial evidence about a subject with an open mind to reach a conclusion. Nan, if you are ready to do this, I suggest use make use of the data in the area Scientology - Through the door on xenu-directory (dot) net. Please remember this, it's a site I hope you will read one day.

I know that you are closed off for such thoughts, but please accept this is not personal. In fact, from our point of view, we are fighting for your wellbeing too. I know that one day you will be able to respect that. Good luck.

We have to forgive the Scientologists who write here. Remember, they are not allowed to look at anything on the net that is negative about their "religion". We have to fight for them. They don't know that they have been brainwashed and they aren't allowed to inform themselves.

Yous said: 'my neighbor is related to a scientologist and she is quite a wonderful individual.'

Well Paul, it's clear from your post are a Scientologist too. I'm sure that you are quite a wonderful individual person too (although you comment wasn't very nice, and you lied about not being a Scienologist).

We can't wait to see more of this too. We will continue to stand outside the cults properties, we will continue to write in these comments sections until journalists understand that writing about Scientology without doing any research is irresponsible.

In fact, we will continue to protest until the US government understands that Germany is doing the right thing and undertakes action against the cult too.

I had to come back to this page to see if my request for an response was fulfilled and it was. Well first, I appreciate your more coherent attempt to inform me of your views of Scientology. They are taken. Although It seems rather odd that you guys continue to attack the church, first with repeated on going rants, then when requested to provide a more logical approach, you provide an attempt.

Listen I read the article, I have had opportunities to deal with scientologists and they have provided me with their literature, I even went to some of their events where I had a chance to speak with their "sea org" or management dudes.

I have tried to find something bad in their public activities and I just haven't found it. Now are they perfect? You bet they aren't but are any of us perfect?

I see where many of the attacks come from...they are opening their mouths, they are saying things many of us don't want to hear and that makes many of us uncomfortable.

They are shaking the ground now with their open attack to the Psychiatric approach to mental health (which hasn't had a history of being the best) and they are attempting to inform based on THEIR views.

You hold yours, I hold mine. You recommend me to see your "site" I recommend you to see "mine" and then we move on from there.

The article by Claire is one more view, an acceptable view, just like all of the other articles that say things against Scientology. This is not a matter of "reporting" to the heads of the Washington post or to "DIGG IT" or to the cops or the FBI or the department of homeland security.....OHH MAN...this is just one more article!

read it and move on!

Dear Ms Hoffman,

Since the Anonymous movement started, we have seen only one other article which showed the same naive and uneducated stance towards this dangerous cult.

As it happens, she wrote a second article today in which she interviews a former member of the church. Together, these two article form a much more balanced view on Scientology.

I really hope you will chose to do the same thing.

My apologies if you find our criticism harsh, but I assure you it is most certainly not unfair.

Kind regards,
Steve

I'm not very well versed with the doctrine of Scientology so I will refrain from passing any judgements other than to say that any posters whose religions do not have their crazies or bigotted and exclusionary doctrine cast the first stone! And all you Christians (and others) who find it necessary to disparage another's religion please take a moment, look in the mirror and ask yourselves if your being true to the credo "Judge not lest ye be judged"

WOOHOOO...I AM GETTING SPARKS!
thanks to FREDOME OF SPEECH i get to say what I feel and so do many others. I've noticed a pattern in some of the attacks here and that is what makes me so curious.

ha, you may say as you please, after all you are behind a screen and a series of keys. I know what I know, I've spoken with many scientologists and know how they behave and act.

you may continue to say and write and write and write, so may I.

I've known about their on going support to the way to happiness campaing, and to many drug prevention programs (want to trash those too?) and that is enough ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH for me to know that these dudes are not bad people.

I have taken a look at various sites...the xenutv and others and yeap...and will see more...sure why not.

So far, what I know is SCIENTOLOGISTS are good men and women.

Hello Nan,

Now I always enjoy a civilized discussion. Your second response really has me wondering whether or not you actually are a member of Scientology, which is what I initially thought.

But anyway, you mentioned that you have met Sea Org, or church management. I'm sorry for not making myself clear, but Sea Org are the biggest victims of the cult. Although some members of Sea Org weren't good people before they joined, I sincerely believe Sea Org members are well intentioned. Anything illegal or abusive they do, is a result of the institutionalized thinking mechanisms they have acquired over the years. With church management we mean only one man really: David Miscaviage. Now unfortunately, I am not a native speaker, so I'm a bit short at the moment for words for 'evil' that the English language is so wonderfully rich of. So, I'll just stick to evil, OK?

Another thing you said is:
I have tried to find something bad in their public activities and I just haven't found it.

Well, first of all, it would make sense they would try to keep the bad stuff away from the publics eye wouldn't it? Are they successful in that? Yes and no. No, because it's well laid out on the net. Yes, because the combination of Tom Cruise and the alien stuff, has given the public the firm view that Scientology is a somewhat kooky religion for famous moviestars. As a result, they don't look behind the veneer.

Second of all, is there something bad in their public activities?

Not directly, but there's risk. This risk lies mostly in performing medical assistance without a license. Take the stress test for example. This is a psychological test. It is designed to invariably give you a negative outcome; you're insecure, depressed etc. It's is an attempt to get under your skin to sell you the first courses. Last month, a Norwegian girl, Kaja Ballo, committed suicide after receiving such a negative result. It's irresponsible to have people without a degree in psychology take such tests as they didn't recognize this girl needed professional attention.

A second example is Narconon. This program is designed to help people of drugs. Besides blatant lies about their success rate, what they do is dangerous. They subject people to a combination of hour long sessions in a sauna, pyshical exercise and overdoses of vitamins. Many medical experts have warned this is a dangerous combination (and based on assumption on 'flushing' drugs out of a body which are scientifically incorrect) and Have causes people to die.

A third public activity of Scientology is Crimonon, which is supposed to help criminals and get them back into society (and into Scientology of course). I don't know much about Crimonon in all honestly, but I did read an article this week that the former Dutch (European?) Executive Director of Crimonon, Jesse Remmers, is a hitman currently on trial for at least six liquidations. This leads me to question the effectiveness of the program.

Hey Claire,

After all the fuss do you think you might now want to write a more expansive article on the Church and its current troubles?

Or is there now also a part of you slightly afraid to come home and find your pet cat dead, your car repossessed and a new best friend who keeps encouraging you to commit suicide?

I've yet to see any reason to suppose that Scientology is a religion. What are the arguments that it should receive the special treatment? In case there are some arguments, is there any support for those arguments?

My impession is that Germany is far too timid in how they treat Scientology.

Oh, now I see the real meaning of this article. It was written to see if there's enough public support for a real and critical article on scientology. It seem s that the general public is fed up with the cult's lies and the way they are handled in the media these days. The public will support you when you do your duty as you did with the Watergate case. We'll laugh with you when the cult will accuse you of sending bomb threats (they actually claimed the BBC is a terrorist organisation and is sending them bomb threats).

But the biggest thing is to inform all the honest and hard working low level scientologists who know nothing about the corruption higher up. I have seen them and they are really nice and it's painful to me to see how they are exploited and their lives slowly ruined by the leaders of this cult.

Help the people by exposing the crimes

Oh, now I see the real meaning of this article. It was written to see if there's enough public support for a real and critical article on scientology. It seem s that the general public is fed up with the cult's lies and the way they are handled in the media these days. The public will support you when you do your duty as you did with the Watergate case. We'll laugh with you when the cult will accuse you of sending bomb threats (they actually claimed the BBC is a terrorist organisation and is sending them bomb threats).

But the biggest thing is to inform all the honest and hard working low level scientologists who know nothing about the corruption higher up. I have seen them and they are really nice and it's painful to me to see how they are exploited and their lives slowly ruined by the leaders of this cult.

Help the people by exposing the crimes

This article and the associated comments make for very interesting reading. I'm aware this point has been made, but I too wonder how aware the author is of the nature of the Church of Scientology's "checkered past" and that this checkering continues to the present day.

Those wondering about the profoundly malign past actions of the Church of Scientology are invited to google Operation Freakout and Operation Snow White. If you wish to determine whether incidents of this nature are limited to a 'few bad apples' in the distant past, you may care to check:

- Why is the leadership of Scientology in Belgium currently facing 12 criminal charges including extortion and fraud?
- Why was a French woman held against her will by Scientologists for several weeks in Sardinia this year (before being rescued by police)?
- Why did the management of Scientology risk the lives of their staff and members by exposing them to blue asbestos aboard the Freewinds?

I would encourage any scientologist reading, rather than interpreting this as an attack, to check whether these points are true or not.

Nan, I read your response again, and reading it again, something came to mind...you are a still a Scientologist are you not, and you have done a doubt formula once isn't it?

However, when you did so you were lead astray. You focussed on the public works of Scientology, which are partly sincere and well-intentioned, in particular on the part of the Volunteer Ministers.

It is a shame that you didn't focus on some other outpoints that you may have noticed over the years. A couple of suggestions:
- Multiply your donations in the past year with the number of Scientologists. What number do you arrive at? Now, add up the costs of the 'good' public works that you know of? Is there a big difference? Where do you think this difference is being spend on (hint: COB).
- Have you noticed that SO/OTIII+ members do not seem to be happier (or perhaps even less happy) than people who only joined recently.
- Have you noticed things that aren't perfect like yelling at staff, staff being poor, people drifting away or even disconnecting from friends and family. Are you willing to investigate whether this happens on a structural basis, and more than something that is just 'not perfect'?

I really hope you are reading this Nan and willing to do another doubt formula.

To moderators: apologies for the multiple posts!

google FRANK VITKOVIC

Hi,

Your comments seem strange, frowning upon Germany, while in the US recently hundreds of Mormon women and children were detained for what they think are religious practices.

How did the US authorities handle ‘religious freedom’ in Waco, TX in 1993?

Thomas, Germany

It's this country that needs to reconsider its treatment of Scientology. Our unwillingness to judge anything calling itself a religion has allowed a explicitly socially destructive organization to flourish here at home. It has also, strangely, rendered us a country that agonizes over Christmas trees in public parks at the same time as it publicly funds Kirsti Alley's anti-extraterrestrial vitamin regimen.

Germany is not the outlier here. Canada also considers the organization a business. As does Israel. As does Ireland. As does New Zealand. As does France. As does Belgium. As does Russia. And so on... Nor do these countries allow Scientology's lobbying wings, like Narconon, use public funds to indoctrinate children into the organization the way we do.

It's especially disheartening to hear this when, not a month ago, a young Norwegian woman committed suicide under the influence of Scientology "personality testing." Or consider the Australian who was recently denied psychiatric care by Scientologists and murdered his family. These are matters of public welfare, not freedom of conviction.

Hi Claire

May I ask you a couple of questions?
Did you ever read the German constitution?
If yes (what I doubt), did you understand the German meanings of democracy, human rights, protection of life and property? Did you realize that the German constitution and the according laws go far beyond anything officially written down anywhere and anytime in the United States?
Did you ever read any reports of Scientology refugees? Did you ever read any critical articles in independent newspapers (independent meaning not controlled or infiltrated by Scientologists)?

Protection of the citizens against seduction, exploitation and persecution is a major objective of the German constitution. Fortunately, the German government, legislature and executive follow the rules.

Scientology does not follow the rules. Seduction, exploitation and persecution is usual in this organization, in both psychological and financial sense. That is why Scientology is not compatible with the constitution.

And referring to Scientology as "religion" or even "church" is ridiculous, although describing Hubbard as "Godfather" is appropriate to a certain extent (or don't you even watch movies?). Scientology is simply a commercial enterprise, abusing its members to make them addicted and to gather their money. "Church of Exploitation" would be a more suitable name.

Klaus
(born in Germany, living in Austria)

Scientology is not a religion, it is a sect.

"What is Germany afraid of?"

Umm... Well, gee, what might Germany in particular be on the lookout for?

An organization *already* convicted of infiltrating the US and Canadian governments, *already* convicted of fraud, and *already* convicted for harassment, stalking and withholding medical treatment--this is an organization that raises a few red flags.

Scientology may indeed be a "religion". But, given your comments about it, I presume you are either a member of the "church" or ignorant of how mind-control cults (which Scientology most certainly also is) operate in the reality they hide from public view. I had several close friends become Scientologists. They have all left and all have extremely negative views of the experience. One, who reached a fairly high level in the cult, was repeatedly threatened with death. My own cult experience was mainly with Arica Institute, headed by Oscar Ichazo, a former Bolivian, now a recluse living on Maui who claimed the ability to deliver enlightenment in three months and to transform humanity in 10-15 years. But behind the scenes the group practiced hypnotism, mind control, heavy drug use and bizarre sexual practices including sex with underage women, incest and secret sexual "initiations" by the cult leader involving the wives and partners of male members. Fortunately it is now nearly defunct. Since I left the group more than 30 years ago and exposed its practices through my metaton web site, I have been the recipient of hate mail and false and defamatory ad hominem attacks from group members although none of what I have alleged has ever been proven wrong. Concerning Germany's actions, I can only suggest you allow the Germans to have and interpret their own Constitution and not apply your erroneous theories based on US Constitutional principles whose own promise of religious freedom has been repeatedly violated by the state.

Why do people in America continue to consider Scientology as a religion? Clearly it is not. It is not a sect either since it is not a sub-group of any religion. Scientology is more properly described as a cult. Why should we call it by any other name?

Claire,
If you're reviewing this feedback, you may see one or two broad themes.

1. That there is a considerable amount of documented evidence now available to show that Scientology as an organisation (as opposed to Scientology as a belief system) has over the years acted unethically and sometimes criminally - in an organised and determined manner - towards its critics and ex-members.

2. That the wording of your original column gives little or no understanding of this, thus already rendering you unable to answer the very question you posed: What is Germany afraid of?

Many hundreds of readers have now taken the time to guide you to the materials that could have helped answer your question before you committed it to paper.

I think you now owe it to your readers, Scientologists and non-scientologists alike (esp. Scientologists), to review the leads offered, speak to the Church and the German authorities, and answer that question yourself.

At the very least you might wish to come back onto this thread and indicate whether you would still fall back on the term 'checkered' past, given what you now know.

I think that lots of your readers would like to hear your views on this.

Scientology`s secret base is registered as "The Scottish highlands quietude society."
Scientology`s Flag land base was purchased by "United churches of Florida."

Scientology`s front group for taking down Psychiatry
is called "Citizens Commission on Human rights.

When La Cosa Nostra wanted to go mainstream it
called itself "The Church of Scientology."

When The cult of La Cosa Nostra`s "Guardians Office" got caught out with an intelligence division rivaling the CIA it changed its name to The Office of Special affairs.

If the Nazi party had a revival and called themselves "Butterfly collectors" would you be stupid enough to see the picture they`d painted,
or would you realize that you can call any thing
any name you like.
Doesn`t change what it actually is one bit.

Here is Scientology`s real name, "SLAVERY"

Scientology`s secret base is registered as "The Scottish highlands quietude society."
Scientology`s Flag land base was purchased by "United churches of Florida."

Scientology`s front group for taking down Psychiatry
is called "Citizens Commission on Human rights.

When La Cosa Nostra wanted to go mainstream it
called itself "The Church of Scientology."

When The cult of La Cosa Nostra`s "Guardians Office" got caught out with an intelligence division rivaling the CIA it changed its name to The Office of Special affairs.

If the Nazi party had a revival and called themselves "Butterfly collectors" would you be stupid enough to see the picture they`d painted,
or would you realize that you can call any thing
any name you like.
Doesn`t change what it actually is one bit.

Here is Scientology`s real name, "SLAVERY"

As an American living in Germany, I fully support the German government's position on Scientology here. Their consitutional basis for keeping an eye on them is sound. What strikes me as hypocritical is the U.S. government's ignorance of its own recent history. For many years the American government (through the IRS) hounded Scientology unmercifully. Second, the Bush-Cheney administration has been spying on their own cititzens (en masse) since 9/11. Where do Americans have the right to tell anyone how to behave in this area. Such hypocrisy vexes the soul.

Claire: "Serious Question now.." said it all (Posted May 8, 2008 05:32). We all look forward to your followup after a little research. Scientology needs to obey the laws of any business, including paying taxes -- both in the US and Germany. They are basically a pyramid/extortion operation with no basis as a religion.

I have been a member of the Church for over 25 years. I am aware of the controversy's. I see a lot of untruth printed about the organization. The comments in this section are full of this kind of blatant uninformed attacks. I have found the teachings and general direction of the organization to be constructive and rational and usable. I have raised my kids with it and they are considered by everyone who knows them to be intelligent and responsible. While also being able to decide for themselves. Organizations are not perfect its true. But they dont deserve to be attacked relentlessly like this. The intention and condition of the attacker is telling in their blatant and obvious use of lies and other nastiness to force their point across. What are they afraid of really? If you are interested, go to the library, get a book and see for yourself.

as an american living ANYWHERE on earth, i support the german government's stand on scientology. our fetish with free speech uber alles (pardoning the expression) is what let the demented kraken of the Co$ into the world in the first place.

so then, i'd like to respond to you point by point.
(other anons, TL;DR incoming!)

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

actually, the first things that i think about are typically their egregious abuses of human rights, and complete abandonment of ration thought and critical thinking skills. i suppose germany pops up eventually, though.

"In December, Germany's interior ministers said they considered the religion to be "not compatible with the constitution." Yesterday, an AP story reported that the German Scientologists have dropped a legal battle to keep the country's intelligence services from monitoring its activities. What is Germany so afraid of?"

germany is a unique case in the world, in that they hosted an absolute fascist state with goals of world domination (nazis. and no, not godwins law.), and suffered for it. as such, they are the BEST suited in the world to detect the same type of thought that leads to those ends. they are correct, scientology is not compatable with the constitution. scientology hopes to 'clear the planet', or make everyone on earth a sceintologist, loyal only to their dead messiah, and his current dictatorial stand-in.

"German officials have categorized Scientology as a business, not a religion, and tax accordingly. Scientology has responded by complaining about "religious discrimination."

The AP reports that "The North Rhine-Westphalia Higher Administrative Court in Muenster refused last month to hear an appeal to a February ruling allowing the intelligence agencies to continue observing the Scientologists.

German authorities suspect Scientology of maintaining ''ambitions against the free, democratic basic order,'' according to the February ruling."

A: if they thought it would garner support, scientologists would accuse you of religious persecution for eating scones too loudly across the street from their 'orgs'.

B: aside from the fact that judges do occasionaly want to stop listening to laywers, scientology's history of abuse of the legal system makes denial of appeals MORE desirable, not less.

C: again, good for them. they are correct in their suspicions.

"The Church of Scientology has long battled to end the surveillance, saying it is an abuse of freedom of religion, and the U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany for the practice in its annual Human Rights Report."

my earlier comments on the US Gov't's fetishistic view towards freedom of religion notwithstanding, the IRS all but admitted IN COURT that they'd been bought off by the Co$ to proclaim it as a religion. really, though, there's nothing on this point i can do or say except for expressing my collective shame at the poor behavior of my nation.

"Germany's top security officials reiterated in December that they consider Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution. They asked state officials to begin gathering information to consider whether they have sufficient grounds to seek a ban on Scientology."

Ban Scientology? Doesn't that seem kind of extreme? They are a religion largely focused on self-improvement. While I'm well aware of their checkered past, decrying it unconstitutional seems like a threatened position to take by a nation. "

no, it does not seem extreme. not if you listen to hubbards writings as a sane and free man (or woman).
no, they are not a religion. they meet every criteria in every way of being BOTH a cult, and a pyramid scheme. scale and name do not change the underlying purpose. this does not mean that i disagree with their right to believe. mormonism is a valid religion, the mormon cult in texas was still raided 100% lawfully. without the state department condemning the government of texas, i might add. perhaps the mormons should have hired a few hundred lawyers, like scientology did when the IRS revoked their tax break after deciding that they preformed no valid religious services?

if you were truly aware of scientology's "Checkered Past", you would not have bothered writing this article. look up 'Lisa McPhereson'. she DIED, because scientologists did to her what the accepted teachings of the CoS demanded. look upo operation snow white, or operation PC Freakout. scientologist's infiltrated the us government to purge records critical of them, under indirect orders from their founder. scientologists attempted to drive a journalist to suicide, because she wrote the truth about them, under orders from their founder. the same founder that, under scientology policy, is INFALLIBLE. his orders, his paranoid delusions, are more than standard operating procedure in the CoS to this day... they are the ONLY operation procedure.
i'd like to close with a few quotes and an admonishment:

HUBBARD Wrote to this effect:
enemy, SP. may be tricked, sued, lied to, or destroyed. (later cancelled, IN NAME ONLY)

those below 2.0 on the tone scale must be eliminated, quietly and without sorrow (guess where YOU fall on the tone scale, public at large.)

have you ever read 1984 by george orwell? yes, that is but the palest shadow of what a world entirely under scientology would be like.

these are (close to) the words of L Ron Hubbard. in the CoS, that man CANNOT be wrong, his words CANNOT be changed or interpreted differently once he sets them forth.

Mrs. Hoffman, i would beseech you to join the rest of the world outside of the American nightmare where religion can trump other rights at will.
i plead with you not to hold our government's most embarrassing international actions as shining examples of tolerance.
and most of all, i ask of you what i would ask of every journalist and every politician. Do Your Job. worry first about the world, and second, if at all, about ratings and re-election. find the truth, act on the truth. and in this case, the truth is that Germany is correct and justified in its every action in this case, for the crimes commited by scientologists, for scientology would shock even the most callous, jaded, and cynical person imaginable.

they shocked me.

What is Germany afraid of??? Are you serious? I'm sadly disappointed that OUR country wont do the same.

What kind of reporter are you? Especially since you are saying the total opposite from what you wrote in a prior story regarding Scientology as WILEY has stated. THANKS WILEY.

"Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the Church's treatment by the German state."

Why would you start with this premise? Their position is the same as mine: Scientology is NOT a religion; it's a confidence scam that uses vulnerable people for their sweat and money and worse.

I live in Holland (next door to Germany) and I am GLAD they are taking steps to protect the public from this dangerous cult.

Internal Scientology-tactics are like George Orwell's "1984" ones and the German goverment recognises the same things in their group-dynamic that made Hitler rise to power. These people are a lot more dangerous then you think.

My question is: WHY doesn't the USA, home to most scientologists, do something about this or at least starts a full-scale investigation? This cult is rich, who has been paid off, which lobbies are out there, why are you not in tune with the rest of the world on this subject?
Why is this dangerous organisation protected?

The church of Scientology has years of human rights abuses. The make their members pay for salvation.

This is no religion, this is a business.

Whatever you think about Scientology, you have to wonder about the countries that embrace a crackpot organization whose mission is to separate people from their fortunes, and call them "religion," and exempt them from paying taxes.

I am certainly all for religious freedom. However, Claire Hoffman's uncritical acceptance of the Scientologist's propaganda that they are for 'self improvement' is a disservice to her readers. Given the history of the 'church' and it's founder, it is simply not credible that they are anything but crackpots and should not be given the benefit of the doubt.

Hey, Claire.

I highly suggest you read Bare Faced Messiah. It is an extremely good book that can be found online that among other things details how LRH decided to make a religion after his Dianetics movement had to pay taxes.

Scientology claims it is a religion but everything it does is business. It acts like a business when practices are exposed. It relies on lawyers to the point where it's suspicious. It has lavish events and special centers for celebrities so they look good. It talks frequently about money and you can get no services without it. It pays less than minimum wage across all ages. It's a capitalist's dream.

Scientology is not recognized as a religion by Israel, Germany, the UK, Ireland, Belgium, France, Mexico, and Luxembourg. All of these states have decided something is fishy about this organization, you may want to look into Scientology to see why rightfully they think this.

I have an idea. How about the Washington Post do their job as the media. Do some research into the story before publishing it, and find out what Germany is, in fact, "afraid of".

The information is out there.

$cientology is dangerous to democratic government and to a free press since they have demonstrated time again that they will infiltrate and harass those that disagree with them whatever plans they want to move forward. $ci goes absolutely personal, taking the low road, and with a viscousness that's more akin to extremest groups and not a religion.

$cientology is dangerous to democratic government and to a free press since they have demonstrated time again that they will infiltrate and harass those that disagree with them whatever plans they want to move forward. $ci goes absolutely personal, taking the low road, and with a viscousness that's more akin to extremest groups and not a religion.

So many comments in so little time.
That local German Government seems to operate by the policy that calling your organization a "Church" does't make it a "Religion." Maybe they are on to something.

All this does is underline the ridiculousness of providing tax exemptions to churches.

The problem isn't that Germany is treating Scientology as a business, the problem is that it draws the distinction and provides exemptions for 'mainstream' religions such as Christianity and Islam.

Whatever their flaws (and there are many flaws!) Scientologists are not going around blowing up women and children as part of some sort of irrendentist suicide cult.

Perhaps the plank should be removed from our own eyes before we criticize the splinter in Scientology's.

JKP:

"Perhaps the plank should be removed from our own eyes before we criticize the splinter in Scientology's."

list of some splinters- by no means complete, probably just a small part:

Lisa McPherson
Heribert Pfaff
Josephus Havenith
Noah Lottick
Susan Meister
Quentin Hubbard

They fear another stupid dangerous religion. They have had enough of facist crap.

Scientology Kills, Germany should be congratulated for not supporting a dangerous cult.

Scientology Kills, Germany should be congratulated for not supporting a dangerous cult.

John, I'd like to respond to your comment below.

You say: What are they afraid of really? If you are interested, go to the library, get a book and see for yourself.

Well, John is suggesting us to read Dianetics. Now I do have a strong opinion on this book, but I'll hold back on speaking up since it opens up for people to accuse me of bigotry. What is fair to say though, is that although Scientology sounds like Science, none of the claims in Hubbard's books are supported by verifiable scientific experiments.

However, if you are interested you should definitely read the book. But if you do, please also read some of the critical sites. John is really insulting our intelligence when he says our accusations are unfounded.

The 'net people' who are commenting on this article are fully aware of the superfluous of information on the internet. I spent at least a month reading sites on both sides of the story, assessing evidence before I joined Anonymous. I also had a lenghty e-mail discussion with an ex-member who found the critics were going over the top. But the evidence is surmounting: it consists of hundreds of consistent first person accounts, actual (scanned) policy documents and tons of verdicts the world over.

My conclusion: On a person-to-person basis, most people in Scientology are without any doubt wonderful and well-meaning people. As an organization, they are rotten to the core and sinister of comic-book proportions. Their crimes are like a fractal: every time you look closer, you will see more and more abuses.

If you are reading this as an independent reader, please don't take his veering along a bit for face value: Sure, scientology is not perfect, but they don't deserve this onslaught of criticism.

I really hope you'll take a bit of time do a bit of research on your own. Or actually, perhaps you better shouldn't. Before you know it, you'll be wearing some silly mask standing outside one of their locations on May 10th or June 17th.

Regards

Some scary things about the organisation that calls itself "the church of scientology".

The organisation is very effective at usurping the desires of people to do good to people to make it work for the good of the organisation.

Members are convinced that the only way to "really help" is to get people on "the bridge" to becoming "clear". Which translates to getting them to join up and pay for courses.

The organisation is so efficient at indoctrinating its members with this belief that they openly promote the organisation and its agenda and even recruit in disaster zones, such as 9/11 and the boxing day Tsunami.

The organisations' doctrines empower abusers to commit abuse both to members and to critics. They encourage members to report on members. They include all manner of punishments for being out of line with the organisations' doctrines. They state that members make trick, lie to, sue or in any other way destroy critics without punishment from the organisation.

All the organisations' front groups may seem to be worthy causes but at the end of the day they are about recruitment:-

"Way to happiness" is all about follow the organisations' teachings, joining up and paying for courses.

CCHR is all about "the world wide obliteration of psychiatry" to be replaced by dianetics, which is the basis of the organisations' teachings, so getting people to join up and paying for courses.

WISE, is all about applying the organisations' teachings in the business place, joining up and paying for courses.

Narconon is all about getting people off drugs using purif run downs, which is part of the organisations' teachings, which leads on to joining up and paying for courses.

Applied scholastics is teaching the organisations teachings in schools, while at the same time aluding to the organisation so when pupils come across it they are more ameanable to joining up and paying for courses because that is what they did in school.

The list goes on.

The organisations' goal for its members is getting everyone on the planet "on the bridge" to being "clear" and ultimately "clearing the planet" ;which translates to getting everyone to join up and pay for courses.

Members believe that if everyone joined up and paid for the organisations' courses the world would be a much better place. There would be no more critics of scientology; you would read about them just in the history books. The number of critics to them is a major indicator of just how bad the world is because anyone who criticises the organisation is a criminal, to be handled or declared an suppressive person and disconnected from.

Keep Scientology Working = Keep the money coming in.

It is sad but true that there are still good people in the organisation; I've met some. Some have perhaps woken up to the abuse but feel trapped as they no longer have assets of their own or friends who are not scientologists. Others may still be deluded in to the believing the organisations' mission (making everyone a scientologist - known as "clearing the planet") is the ONLY way to help.

Of course personal improvement through the organisation's courses will help you see things their way; they do involve a lot of brain washing techniques. It will undoubtedly improve the organisations bank balances. But will it stop human rights violations? Will it bring world peace? Will it end poverty? Will it stop slavery? I doubt it.

According to the reports from many ex-members human rights violations are not uncommon in the organisation. People are made to work in slave labour conditions. Staff members can end up dependant on the organisation because they have no money anymore.

As for world peace, the organisation that calls itself "the church of scientology" is incredibly aggressive in its agenda and sees everyone who is not "in it" as "out of it".

A religion? Riiiiight, how many religions charge for their teachings? How many religions teach that space aliens blew us up?
Just one, Scientology. Germany, I stand by you.

Claire - You need to stop referring to Scientology as a religion. It's a cult, plain and simple. The Germans have got it right.

JOHN WRITES: I have been a member of the Church for over 25 years. I am aware of the controversy's."

OK. THANK'S FOR BEING HONEST ABOUT THAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE CONTROVERSIES? WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF RPF, OP SNOW WHITE, THE HARASSMENT OF PAULETTE COOPER, THE DEATH OF LISA MCPHERSON?

"I see a lot of untruth printed about the organization. The comments in this section are full of this kind of blatant uninformed attacks."

OK. AND CAN YOU GIVE US, SAY, THREE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES OF ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST THE CHURCH - CITING NAME, DATE AND CLAIMANT - AND EXPLAINING HOW THEY ARE BLATANTLY UNINFORMED?"

I have found the teachings and general direction of the organization to be constructive and rational and usable. I have raised my kids with it and they are considered by everyone who knows them to be intelligent and responsible. While also being able to decide for themselves.

I'M SURE YOU HAVE, AND I'M SURE YOUR KIDS ARE GREAT. YOU'RE RIGHT TO BE PROUD OF THEM. MY BAPTISMAL GODFATHER IS ONE OF THE FINEST MEN I KNOW. HE WAS A SCIENTOLOGIST FOR NEARLY AS LONG AS YOU - HE EVEN WORKED ALONGSIDE HUBBARD AT SAINT HILL. NO ONE DENIES THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF BEAUTIFUL SCIENTOLOGISTS, PAST AND PRESENT. BUT THE MANAGEMENT ETHICS OF THE ORGANIZATION ARE CORRUPT, AND ITS SENIOR MANAGEMENT IS A LAW UNTO ITSELF

"Organizations are not perfect its true. But they dont deserve to be attacked relentlessly like this. The intention and condition of the attacker is telling in their blatant and obvious use of lies and other nastiness to force their point across. What are they afraid of really? If you are interested, go to the library, get a book and see for yourself. "

IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU WRITE ORGS AREN'T PERFECT. YOU CAN'T BRING YOURSELF TO WRITE THAT SCIENTOLOGY ISN'T PERFECT. WHY NOT LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: 'CRITICS OF SCN ARE NOT PERFECT, IT'S TRUE. BUT THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE ATTACKED RELENTLESSLY LIKE PAULETTE COOPER, ROBERT WELKOS, RUSSELL MILLER, BENT CORYDON, DAVID MAYO, ROY WALLIS, CYRIL VOSPER, JON ATACK, VICKI AZNARAN...'

AND YES, I AGREE, GO TO A LIBRARY AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. START WITH RUSSELL MILLER'S BAREFACED MESSIAH. OR ROY WALLIS'S ROAD TO TOTAL FREEDOM. OR JON ATACK'S PIECE OF BLUE SKY. YOU SEE, JOHN, I'VE READ DIANETICS, SO I'M ABLE TO COMMENT ABOUT BOTH SIDES? HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE BOOKS?

ARE YOU ALLOWED TO?

LOVE. D.

You should focus more on the potential harm that the church of scientology is capable doing to Germany as a nation. They have every right to defend theirselves against this insainly dangerous cult. The more power this cult has the more dangerous it becomes and it needs to be stopped before it can infiltrate the goverment and corporations more than it already has.
You are not doing yourself or the Washington Post any favors by defending this so called "church".
This is nothing more than grossly negligent journalism.

The only thing that makes Scientology a religion is the fantasy nature of its basic tenets -- Thetans and all that crap. But unlike other established religions it is secretive and hidden. I can walk into a church or a synagogue or a temple and participate in their cute little fantasy-based rituals if I choose (well, except for the Mormons, and they're as wacked-out at the Scientologists). With Scientology I have to be inculcated into the secret cult, learn the secret handshakes and get a decoder ring that outsiders don't get. It's not a religion in that it isn't open.

Scientology is the least philosophically and theologically dishonest viewpoint of any movement, let alone religion. It's built around nothing more then exploitation and greed. Any religion with those principles does not deserve protection.

There are three types of people who have looked into Scientology. Those who exploit it, those who are suckered into believing it and those who are disgusted by it. Thank God the german government nipped this dangerous pseudo-religion in the bud.

The Germans initially did not recognize Scientology as a religion because it charged its members such high fees to participate in the religion in the first place (Unlike Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, which encourage their members to donate but do not require vast sums of money in order to have access to religious texts and knowledge of the secrets to obtain a favorable afterlife). To the Germans, it was a scam that masqueraded as a religion.

wow, this post has a lot of response! Very amusing.

You cannot take all the ex-scientologist comments here too seriously. Like ex-christians, ex-muslims, or ex-husbands/wives, exes tend to be a bit extreme in their opinion of the religion (cq. partner) they just left. Of course, if you have been fooled, you feel bad about it. But too many people blame just the scammer instead of themselves.

The negative response however, is also caused by the ambition of the author. If you try to be critical of the German government (I suppose her main question is rhetorical), you should give some logical arguments. There are no real arguments here, and the article is short on logic.

The only argument I read, is her statement that Scientology are a religion focused on self-improvement. We have to believe her on her pretty eyes that this is correct, and that she has a definition of religion which makes sense (other commenters have pointed this out). But next, their is a logical problem in her understatement, that an organisation's activities cannot be unconstitutional, just because they are a religion in this sense (also been said elsewhere in the comments, witness the medieval European church, or islamic fundamentalist organizations).

Somebody with two Master's degrees cannot possibly suffer from this kind of sloppy thinking. It is bad faith to assume, as I see suggested in the comments, that the Washington Post put this posting here as a provocation to up its number of hits.

My guess is that Ms. Hoffman was either almost missing a deadline, or simply out of ideas, and quickly typed in something on scientology and a well-known foreign country.

You should check (and cite) the German constitution before you start calling things "unconstitutional."

http://www.freethinker.co.uk/2008/02/27/laughing-religion-off-the-planet-an-interview-with-pat-condell/

Religions? Might as well giggle at them all. They are all really absurd. ALL of them. NO exceptions.

When leaders of faiths come together they talk about their faith.

When leaders of Scientology get together, they talk about money.

That is all the top level managament cares about.

You are aware, I am assuming, that Germany is not a member of the United States, and that its constitution is not the same as that of the latter. Using the term "unconstitutional" in this case is therefore completely unfair, as there is an implication that somehow or other the ban you speak of violates the U.S. Constitution, which is completely unenforceable in Germany. Second, what does the constitution of Germany say with regard to religions and their behavior? Is in fact the behavior of Scientology a violation of the German constitution? And even if it is not, how is it any of our business? Are you suggesting some sort of regime change in Germany to make their constitution more like that of the United States? What is the point of your article?

For the past 10 years I have conducted an intense study of the Church of Scientology (COS). I have spoken to scores of people, former members around America, Canad and Europe. I have had access to thousands of pages of mimeographed memos sent by Hubbard to members during the first 20 years of the organization. I have experienced first hand the deception of a Scientology leaders telling "an acceptable truth", which led away from the actual truth. I have verified the placement of COS staff in government offices even to this day, causing continued concern of a comment made by the director of the Los Angeles office of the FBI, that in essence said that the COS had a better informating gatherin program than the FBI itself.

My bookshelf is filled with COS works including on called "The Problem of Work" by L. Ron Hubbard, C.E., Ph.D. Hubbard never finished college and his degree was from Sequoia University, a degree mill shut down by the State of California.

Are some people helped by COS? Some adults, young and old alike, missed something in their upbringing. Hubbard says many, if not all problems are related to misunderstood words. His solution? Look them up in a dictionary. What English teacher hasn't been saying that for years? Some people are helped to be more assertive and in many cases agressive by Hubbard's classes. Taking a course in "How to Win Friends and Influence People" would be far cheater and there wouldn't be pressure to take more classes and move on to the Bridge which will cost 100's of dollars. That's were COS heads a person.

Just this morning (5-8-08) CNN carried a story about COS and when the COS representative was asked about the disconnection policy of COS which forces members to disconnect from and even divorce spouses, friends, co-workers who are critics, he said in essence that he know nothing about such a policy. Either he is not aware of the truth or is deliberately avoiding telling the truth. One former member has stated that there are over 23,000 persons declared Supressive Person, persons to are to be totaly avoided by COS.

After years of study and interviews I believe that the Time magazine article of May, 1991, was absolutely accurate when it called the COS "a cult of greed and power....which operated in a Mafia-like fashion.... a huge global racket".

Someone once said that "the hottest places in hell(what ever that is) are reserved for people who try to manipulate the idealism of others for their own selfish ends".

It's not the religion of Scientology which is begin questioned. They are free to believe what they will. It is their behavior which has been so destructive to thousands and is just the oppositive of that taught by moast major world religions.

I looked up all the things that the other readers said to research, and they're right. These people are psychos. This is no ordinary religion. I can understand what happened to Tom Cruise now. It's all starting to make sense. They need serious help.

To D below,

Sorry about your obvious turmoil. It comes through loud and clear. I would guess that the folks you mention have had their problems and are guilty themselves, maybe? Please dont assume that what I have written was all there could be for me to say about something or my beliefs. Just wanted to get another less enturbulating viewpont across.

I went to Germany as a Scientologist 10 years ago. I was treated to a customs guy pretending to stamp passports at the airport. Refused hotel rooms that had been reserved, power cut off at the event, more green khaki cops along the march route (past lots of monuments recognizable from Nazi film) than you could count. Intentional lousy reception and service. Not much compared to what the jews got but not much to recommend the Germans and their method of handling things. I spoke to many germans whos business and lives had been intentionally ruined by German tactics almost exactly like the tactics used against the Jews. Also saw lots of ridiculous TV rants about Scientology. And ad campaigns similar to the ones used against the Jews. Germany has a poor human rights record and defending them in their religious persecutions is wrong.

I know the difference between errors being pointed out and and attempts to correct them and folks that are intent on destroying. I myself intend to protect myself as others of my group intend to also.

Thats it for me.

Never have I seen such a firestorm on the 'On Faith' site. I find it very encouraging that so many of the posters see the truth about $cientology. Of course, we have the CoS droids here trying to do damage control, and the other assorted nitwits.

Poor, benighted Claire Hoffman. Why did she produce such a pathetic essay? Here are some theories:
1. She is a $cientology zombie.
2. She is being threatened by the CoS.
3. She is completely and totally ignorant.
4. She is a sadistic journalist who simply wanted to stir up a hornet's nest.

Well, she got #4 for sure. Don't know about the others.

I knew a woman who told me, flat out, that she and her (ex)husband had been the Co$ VIP hospitality couple for Toronto in the '80's.

He drove, she cooked, and she also prostituted herself for the VIPs, "warmed the beds," if you would. She was very clear about the types of sex acts that had been demanded of her by her "priests."

She was also very clear about how the Co$ brainwashes people. A temple prostitute!? Duh!

Naturally, all Co$ people will claim she lied. Just like then Cardinal Ratzinger spent a decade claiming the catholic pedophile victims were liars so as to cover up for his buddies.

Scientology is a pyramid scheme solely designed to enrich/empower the people at the top of the pyramid by bilking people and brainwashing them. It's a "genuine religion" only in the same way the "Jedi" or "Klingon" religion people are: ironically or mockingly.

Hi John,

In your respons to D, you mention:
I would guess that the folks you mention have had their problems and are guilty themselves, maybe?

I couldn't help myself from laughing about this. As a critic of Scientology, I can see how robotic, yes, even brainwashed this response is.

You see, the people that John is talking about are critics of the cult that have been subject to what is called the 'fair game' policy, which says that (per policy letter) Suppresses Persons (or critics) can be 'sued, harrassed, lied to ur utterly destroyed'. This information can be easily googled by the way.

Now, Scientologists are being learned to believe that every critic of the cult has hidden crimes, or overts as they call them. Otherwise, they would not be protesting the cult.

If you go to Xenutv (dot) com, you can find a number of video's where Scientologists are repeatly asking Mark Bunker, also a Suppressed Person, 'What are your crimes', 'What are your crimes'.

I know I shouldn't have laughed, because it is really sad, but I just coulnd't help myself.

Dear people, if you consider Scientology to be a perhaps strange but otherwise valid religion, I urge you, please do some googling. You'll come to understand why this article has now some 400 posts.

A couple of suggestions: Google Scientology in combination with words such as forced abortion, slave labour or child labour. Each of those has some 40.000 hits, so there's quite a bit of reading to do.

John wrote:
"I went to Germany as a Scientologist 10 years ago. I was treated to a customs guy pretending to stamp passports at the airport. ... Intentional lousy reception and service."

As a German I can assure you, that's not discrimination. That is just how things are done here.

As to comparing the treatment of scientology with that of jews in the 1930s: You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Read the German constitution and also take a look at the mechanisms that were used by the Nazis to ascend to power at the end of the Weimar Republic and their idea of humankind and the individual. It's all in the historical context. We're just vigilant. Rightly so.

John wrote:
"I went to Germany as a Scientologist 10 years ago. I was treated to a customs guy pretending to stamp passports at the airport. ... Intentional lousy reception and service."

As a German I can assure you, that's not discrimination. That is just how things are done here.

As to comparing the treatment of scientology with that of jews in the 1930s: You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Read the German constitution and also take a look at the mechanisms that were used by the Nazis to ascend to power at the end of the Weimar Republic and their idea of humankind and the individual. It's all in the historical context. We're just vigilant. Rightly so.

Leave Claire Hoffman alone. She is being very smart. She only pretended to support Scientology and have the readers tell the truth on her behalf. She knows what will happen to her if she tells the truth. She's probably blogging right along with rest of us adding in information for us to research. Attagirl!

Sounds like science fiction + master race ideology + brainwashing + cold blooded business + mafia tactics

Germans know the types like the back of their hands. Give them credit for not buying it under cover of religion.

Once the Germans bought a master race ideology from a short, brown haired, brown eyed Austrian. Don't expect them not to be vigilant about anyone selling them similar sounding stuff with a proven "checkered past."

John replies to me: 'Sorry about your obvious turmoil. It comes through loud and clear. I would guess that the folks you mention have had their problems and are guilty themselves, maybe? Please dont assume that what I have written was all there could be for me to say about something or my beliefs. Just wanted to get another less enturbulating viewpont across.'

And that, folks, is why so many people find Scientology such a turn-off. Patronising. Finger-pointing. Misleading. Smug. And, ironically, oh so holier-than-thou.

I'm confused. What is all this about? I've always regarded Scientology as a bit weird, but never gave it much thought. Surely people here must be a paranoid to believe this is going on. Wouldn't law enforcement step in? I mean, somebody mentioned forced abortion and child labor earlier. That sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

Martha, if you're confused, don't write and tell us all about it like Claire has. You have net access. Do what these people suggest. Just google.

Then you might not be so confused...

It is in the nature of cults to maintain a powerfully charming PR face; they are tra