Comments (35)

The silliness of Arabs and Israelis who claim to be descendents of Isaac and Ismail had to end tragically and violently. When the assumption of this relationship was accepted by the world a destructive path was set.

It is insane to believe someone’s assertion that they are directly descendent from biblical figures. The average mind cannot subconsciously accept this premise. Heck it is hard for most of the world to accept the existence of God.

In an effort to prove the un-provable these insane groups of people have been killing each other for thousands of years. I suggested before and will suggest again that science prove once and for all the genealogy of these people through DNA or other means at our disposal.

Those of us in the faith accept the biblical figures in faith solely because we believe in God. It is impossible to believe that God would invest his believability in two tribes of heathens who insist on killing each other.

Maybe if we can prove to these people both Arab and Jew that they are no more related directly to God through Isaac and Ishmael than the rest of us Gentiles. Maybe then they will stop killing each other and at the same time stop dragging the rest of the world into their maze of insanity. END THE WAR IN IRAQ.

Anyone who has done business with Israelis know that they are self-focused, overbearing, unreasonable and uncompromising. This applies to their politics and war as well.

It is a cop out to say that because I believe in a free Palistine that I am anti-Semetic. My best friend from college is Jewish. I've been to Jewish weddings and Bar Mizvah's. And because of our past policies, I believe it is our duty to help protect Israel. But not at the cost of creating the world's largest prison in Gaza. Give these people back their land and their dignity.

Free Palistine!
Protect our Israeli brothers and sisters!

Wolfawitz, Daniel Pipes, Richard Pearl and their ilk are part and parcel of the mammoth AIPAC. Daniel Pipes tried to stifle American academic freedom on US universities’ campuses with his “Campus Watch” to spy on Americans and prevent any debate or discussion of Israel’s racist policies and its grip on US foreign policy. Here is a brief on Israel’s history and policies:
1/// "Israel" never ever recognized the existence of the indigenous owners of Palestine: the Palestinian people.Golda Meir once said "What Palestinians?"
2// Israel never implemented a single UN resolution since its anomalous and questionable creation including UN 181 which created it-by devouring large chunks of the would be Palestine state in 1947, nor UN 194 of the same year which dictates the return of Palestinian refugees now multiplied into seven million who are still living in refugee camps outside Palestine for the past 60 years.
3/// Jewish terrorist gangs such as Haganah, Palmach, Shtern and Argun used extreme violence to ethnically cleanse thousands of Palestinians and destroyed over five hundred Palestinians villages to prevent their return as per UN 194-which 60 years later Israel still refuses to implement. Israel was built on and continues to survive on respectively gang and state terrorism. Even Israeli revisionist historians have uncovered and documented Israeli ethnic cleansing to establish the racist state in 1947.
4// No land or resources are left whatsoever for a Palestinian state: Israel occupied 78%of Arab historic Palestine in 1947/8 and 22% in 1967 (West Bank, Gaza and most importantly Jerusalem which was built by the Canaanite Arabs long before there ever were Jews on earth) AND again Israel annexed-slowly but surely by implanting settlements in full day light- over 58% of the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem-leaving less than 10% of original Arab historic Palestine for a Palestinian state??? Recently AP reported that Israel grabbed 1100 hectares of Palestinian land near Jerusalem-just before the American sponsored “peace conference” a few months ago.
Even the present Israeli defense minister Yahoud Barrack once said: “If I were a Palestinian I would be a terrorist.”

Israel's economic successes have been possible only because they have confiscated most of the fresh water in the region, then used $billions in American aid to prop up their apartheid theocracy. We have given more than $100 billion in aid, besides billions in weapons, and more than a billion a year is moved from our economy into theirs by private American support groups.

More than half of Israeli citizens believe they should return all confiscated lands and make retribution to those 800,000 persons, Christian and Moslem alike, whom were driven off of their ancestral lands in 'legal' Israel. We can't have that discussion here because of the power wielded by AIPAC and Zionist controlled media outlets. A majority of Israelis recognize that the Zionist insistance on ignoring the UN designated borders of Israel and creating a nation with the mythical borders of the Talmud are counter to Israeli survival and morally reprehensible.

For S. Toren:

"Abusing facts"?? Look up the facts yourself: killed in the terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 were 28 British, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews, and 5 others. Around 45 people were injured. Some of the deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings.
That means "most of the casualties" were NOT British servicemen; even all the Brits killed were not "servicemen" (and there were women, and probably children, among the dead and wounded). In any event, I'm sure the relatives, friends, and colleagues of those who died (as well as other people around the world) didn't say, or think: gee, that's OK that they all died since (according to the terrorists) it was a "legitimate military target." Even the Jewish agency expressed "their feelings of horror at the base and unparalleled act perpetrated today by a gang of criminals." And how was assassinating a civilian minister, Lord Moyne, a supposedly "legitimate military target"? It was an act of terrorism, plain and simple. The British weren't at war with the Jews...they were administering Palestine under a "legitimate" international Mandate.
It's an interesting point though: so if the Palestinians fired rockets or attacked Israeli military installations, that would be legitimate, to you, since they would be "legitimate military targets." So why did Israel invade Lebanon in 2006 after Hizballah killed and captured Israeli soldiers? Those were "legitimate military targets" in your definition. I don't recall the British trying to level Jewish areas, or wipe out the Jews, in response to the King David Hotel bombing and other acts of terrorism committed against them. (Why those weren't "cowardly acts," as Joe termed similar Palestinian acts, I don't know. Clearly, the Jewish Agency thought so at the time.)
See, personally I don't think any of it is/was "legitimate"...but it happens when people get desparate to advance their aims. Citing well-known facts (well, actual facts, not your kind) is not anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, or "anti" anything else...they're just facts. (By the way, I have lived in Israel, and visited it several other times, and I like the country and the people.) The problem is that Israelis, and most of those who support them, are usually unwilling (from what I've seen) to engage in an unemotional, realistic debate/discussion on Palestinian issues. It's usually a simple gut reaction...as typified by "Just a Simple Jew." If anyone thinks that Israel can just "flatten" the Palestinians and make the problems go away...well, the world has a term for that: ethnic cleansing. Hard to see how Israel could accomplish that one.
Oh, if you think the billions of dollars that the US gives Israel every year are so unimportant, then Israel should just send the money back. We'd be happy to have the money, especially in these times. Good idea: we'd also save the billions we give to Egypt, since that's only to balance (sorta) the freebie hand-out to Israel. And as for Japan, you should know that the Japanese Government pays many millions to subsidize US forces in Japan...they want the troops there, and clearly the US Government feels it gets its money worth.
In any event, I don't think it's a case of "anything goes" for the Palestinians...could you cite me anyone on this blog who has praised the Palestinians for killing Israelis? But I also don't think it's a case of "anything goes" for the Israelis either. They are not blameless, as well. (For someone on this blog to claim that "most of the Lebanese civilians who died two years ago were killed as the direct result of allowing Hezbollah to fire missiles from their gardens" is pretty bizarre. That's just wildly nonsensical...doubt there were that many gardens in the sections of Beirut that Israel pounded repeatedly.)
This blog reflects, rather well I think, the intractable nature of the Israeli-Palestinian issue: only a few seem inclined to engage in a dispassionate discussion (of history, of facts, etc) that might actually lead to a resolution, in the interests of both sides. But please take your own advice: stop "abusing facts."

Rigged wrote:
"the King David Hotel Jerusalem July 1946, where/when some 91 people were killed "

the King David Hotel was a military/intelligence headquarters and as such a very legitimate target. Most of the casualies were British servicemen.

" That was after the assassination of Lord Moyne (the British Minister of State for the Middle East)"

Moyne was responsible for the policy of preventing Jews trying to escape Europe from reaching safety in Israel (then called Palestine, a term attributed only to the Jewish population then).

A bit different from a group of boys studying Talmud, or youths going to a disco, or bashing in the heads of two young boys in a cave with rocks. Of course if the murderers are Arab (the victims don't even have to be Jews - look at Iraq) anything goes.

Knowing facts is a start, abusing facts evidently has no end.

That zionist school is the epitome of terrorism, it produces fanatical zombie students who treat native palestinians the same way Nazis treated jews minus the ovens.
israel is an apartheid state, the zionist propaganda machine controls "US free media" and paints israel in a rosie picture.

Jack(-ss) wrote:
"US citizens have every right in the world to critcize Israeli policies. We support Israel. Without American aid, Israel would not last past the end of the week. We supply most of your money, weapons, and diplomatic cover. The problem is that we get nothing but heartache and condemnation in return The Israeli government is a bunch of ingrates."

Us aid accounts for only a small fraction of the Israeli budget for less than 7% of the expenditures (check the CIA FACTBOOK you idiot) and as for weapons, since the aid is conditional on purchasing US arms, that would be a no brainer for most.

You base your animus not on facts but on prejudice and on the hope that no one will follow through and check on you. BTW, the US gets full return for the 3 billion in aid to Egypt? For stationing 30 thousand servicemen in Japan? For guaranteeing European security and funding NATO?

I think you are the ingrate and an ignoramous to boot.

I am looking at these comments with disgust. A group of boys were murdered, and all you monsters can do is spout anti Israel or anti Jewish slogans. I am not of the ilk that sees peace as impossible, but when I read the words of souless, heartless human wreckage like you I realise that peace is impossible.

If that is the case, I hope that each of you little board trolls goes to the territories, joins a group like Hamas and that the Israelis give you a chance to die for your convictions.

Israel is Jewish land. Every chance the Arabs have had to make peace has been answered with violence and cowardly attacks. You do not get to start wars, loose them and whine after biting the hand that keeps trying to help you.

The Israelis really should just cut the water power and food they send to the Palis. The Israelis should then expel them once and for all. That is how there will be peace.

I look forward to a day when we have an Israeli government who will take it's gloves off and give the genocidal terrorist and democratically elected Pali governments something to really whine about.

You dance in the streets when you murder our boys. The time is coming when we will stop feeding you. We will stop giving you water. We will stop treating your sewage for you. We will close our hospitals to you. We will stop giving you electricity. How about building things like that rather than rockets? Whine about the food, What about the greenhouses you wrecked. You Palis are good for nothing but destroying the works of other more civilised peoples.

The time is coming that when you launch a rocket, we will do what any other nation would do and flatten you animals.

Jerusalem is the City of David. David was king of the Jews. Don't even talk to me about our land.

Also to all of you left wing antisemites, I hate you back. And, I really don't care how much you pathetic surrender monkeys whine.

I look forward to a day when we have an Israeli government who will take it's gloves off and give the genocidal terrorist and democratically elected Pali governments something to really whine about.

You dance in the streets when you murder our boys. The time is coming when we will stop feeding you. We will stop giving you water. We will stop treating your sewage for you. We will close our hospitals to you. We will stop giving you electricity. How about building things like that rather than rockets? Whine about the food, What about the greenhouses you wrecked. You Palis are good for nothing but destroying the works of other more civilised peoples.

The time is coming that when you launch a rocket, we will do what any other nation would do and flatten you animals.

Jerusalem is the City of David. David was king of the Jews. Don't even talk to me about our land.

If the Israelis are not willing to give the Palestinians a fair deal they cannot expect peace. It is as simple as that. As long as they reserve the right to kill Palestinians at will, they cannot expect a ceasefire. It is also as simple as that. The Palestinians are too proud and stubborn to submit to the Israeli yoke. As fellow Semites with a language, culture, and (yes) religion that is closely related, you would think that Israelis would understand the Palestinian mentality. Wake up Israel. You won. Be graceful winners. The world will be grateful.

Claire, Never has it been this horrible? Please - you are taxing my tolerance for ignorance.

Do read about the Jewish/Zionist terrorists that murdered and continue to murder innocent Palestinians.

Yes, Jewish terrorism (e.g., the murderer Menachem Begin) against Palestinians did begin before you arrived on the scene - so, please study the history of Palestine and in particular how Zionists duped silly Christians and how the silly Christians enabled the Zionists to steal Palestine from the Palestinians.

You can only look forward to more horrors - It isn't like the USA stealing from the Native Americans.

Sincerely,
Providence

Sincerely,
Providence

Claire, Never has it been this horrible? Please - you are taxing my tolerance for ignorance.

Do read about the Jewish/Zionist terrorists that murdered and continue to murder innocent Palestinians.

Yes, Jewish terrorism (e.g., the murderer Menachem Begin) against Palestinians did begin before you arrived on the scene - so, please study the history of Palestine and in particular how Zionists duped silly Christians and how the silly Christians enabled the Zionists to steal Palestine from the Palestinians.

You can only look forward to more horrors - It isn't like the USA stealing from the Native Americans.

Sincerely,
Providence

Sincerely,
Providence

It's pretty ironic for Israelis to cry "foul" so loudly when Palestinians use terrorist acts as a weapon, since terrorist acts were a prime weapon used in the campaign to get the British out of Palestine and establish the state of Israel. Just Goggle the King David Hotel Jerusalem July 1946, where/when some 91 people were killed in a bombing by Jewish terrorists. That was after the assassination of Lord Moyne (the British Minister of State for the Middle East) by members of the Jewish Lehi underground in 1944. Such groups as the Irgun, led by a future Israeli prime minister, and the Stern Gang were not social debating societies. The Jews desparately wanted a "homeland"; guess what the Palestinians desparately want? I don't condone terrorism, but acknowledging historical facts should/could lead to a more informed and balanced discussion.

Violence begats violence.

Whose bright bloody idea was it to establish a small Jewish state in the middle of a sea of Arabs who had said very clearly that they don't want them there?
If the US cares so much about the well-being of the Israelis why don't they give them one of their States and allow them to establish a new artificial, out of place (their current state is just that: artificial and out of place) state in it? Why should the Arabs give Jews one of THEIR states just because they once lived there THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO.

Anon -
US citizens have every right in the world to critcize Israeli policies. We support Israel. Without American aid, Israel would not last past the end of the week. We supply most of your money, weapons, and diplomatic cover. The problem is that we get nothing but heartache and condemnation in return The Israeli government is a bunch of ingrates.

Sigh. First of all, to the remark made by Unbearable (funny name for someone who really is his ID) that cluster bombs killed "thousands of Lebanese", not sure how long you have been hallucinating but it is time to up your medications or even learn to count. Most of the Lebanese civilians who died two years ago were killed as the direct result of allowing Hezbollah to fire missiles from their gardens. Likewise, the deaths in Aza recently were the direct result of indiscriminate rockets and Russian-made Grad missiles and katyushas being fired by Palestinians hitting Israeli civilian populations in Sderot and Ashkelon. At least we are accurate when we fire and have specific targets.
And yes, Sara in fact children often are used as terrorists in this region. Why not check out Youtube for images of Israeli army personnel having to demine, deactivate and otherwise render harmless bombs tied around the bodies of 10-year old Palestinian children. Do you think they managed to manufacture and attach such items themselves or did they have help? If you saw an 8-year old child throwing a Molotov cocktail would you think that child was merely playing? Go watch videos of Hamas training new batches of terrorist Palestinian children on Youtube.
And finally, why don't all of you Israel-bashers learn that you do not live here and you therefore have no right to discuss what goes on here or how we deal with terror? You haven't got a clue.

Roger Scott Smith,

THATS what I'm talking about!
George the Torturer Bush Jr, if he had any brains, would have started the war against terrorist murderers in the Palestinian territories and then worked out towards Iraq and Afganistan THROUGH Saudi Arabia! But no, George the Torturer Bush Jr can honestly say, "I am a Saudi."

The children of terrorists grow up to be terrorists!

Jand,

The cluster bombs the jews used to kill thousands of women and children and old men in lebanon, were they all terrorists?

The Israslie killed 117 last week in Palestine.
More than half of them, even reported by the Washington Post and Times, were women and children.

How dare you! But of course if you support maurading, land grabbing murderers, lying isn't such a far stretch.

The writer is very BRAVE. NO doubt her job will be on the line, as was the fired magnificant
Gandhi, a demand from the several Jewish orgaizations waiting by their computers to scream and demand censure.

Do they know how disgusted Americans and others are that the Israelis can savage and kill dozens of Palestininans...week after week, men women and children..(though of course the CHILDREN ARE "TERRORISTS").

and nothing much is mentioned.

But eight Jews are killed and the Post and Times front pages are filled with pictures and mourning and threats and hate.
The Jews are so big on eye for eye, etc...seems they might expect some blow back. Israeli calls for world "condemnation". Doubt they'll get it.

And then God forbid we'd be left with the likes of you Allknowingguy.

There is a huge difference between what Israel does (which is kill terrorists) and what Palestinian terrorists do (which is kill the innocent). Israeli's do NOT dance in the streets when the terrorists die BUT the murderous Palestinian terrorist sympathizers dance in the streets when Israeli children, wemon and men die.

Chris Everett:

Right on!

So what's the bottom line Ms. Hoffman?

What we learned from your piece was that you are numbed and confused by what seems like never-ending reports of violence coming from the Middle East. We kind of guessed that anyway. All the rest was just a repeat of various news reports.

So what was the purpose of this article?

there was much truth in what you have said...
and i suspect more than a little understanding of the apin and misery know by all who watch this pathetic trainwreck unfold and more so by those of both religions and politics and nationalities ..lets be honest this may have more to do with power and money than religion. too often people that i call social preditors... people who no matter how much power ofr money they have want... maybe even need more... they are i think mentally ill and should not be allowed in governmnt or business and surely not into the non profits which are suposed to help people and all too ofter are just mechanisms to perpetuate agendas and actually make a living off the misery of the poor and the helpless. let me clear here i am talking about western and christian enteties just as much as arab ones. there should be no shame by either for merely feeding and sheltering the homeless the humgry and the helpless. let me not dwell here because nonprofits are not the root of the problem they are by design dependant upon the gifts of others to exist. what we need in all conflicts is first of all truth... what ever that is and spoken freely by all. the only way people of different opinions arrive at truth is by communicating with each other and actually listening to what the other is actually saying even if they think it incorrect on first examination. the other is to realize that peace come not through violence but through peaceful means. violance creates more violence until the two parties realize that there is very little left of what they were fightng for ... then the social preditors back out because thier payoff has already been gotten they have used thier power to divide and cause chaos so they do thier shady business dealings under cover. when there is mo more money left they move to the next human arena with the all to real human gladiators to fight the proxi wars as as much a side show and for entertainment as neccessity...what people of sound mind need to remember is what the social preditors always know .... that truely oppressed people thouighout history of every religion and national origin have not been conquer for all time by violence or raw power... they merely rest until the time comes to peacefully go back to the truth and to insist upon action being actually taken not just talked about. i have a problem like this with my college i am an alumni of florida state it pales in impportance to other world problems or actual misdeeds done against a person. but i assure the model holds very true because i love my university and i suspect God would want to make sure sure people in the future dont have the same thing done to them. i also though admittly very imperfect do... and have always tried to make the world around me a little better. sometimes with very small but conrete actions and deed, that might look pitifull to the casual observer. i peacefully with humor sometimes with words of truth othersconfront the actions that actually happened to me just as it was surely done to people before me... i will peacefully and with words ... insist thaat people in great power actually answer questions.. i do understand because they told me to my face in the art deptmen by the dean sally and lillian that it was going to be this way and there was nothing i could do about it.... they even tried to twist and slime my reputation so people would not listen to me.....i will now put them under the same microscope and we will let the world or just the common people in tallahsse judge for themselves who was a decent person and who had something to hide. well in real life peacefull people who do not simply disregard injustice and go but instead calmly and truthfully as many times as it takes insist that somthing be done to rectify a wrong or to at least aknowledge ion. my particular situation is like many in real life... all i ever asked for was an aknowledgement and an apology. i will again here publicly offer to buy provost larry abele a drink if he does not want to work his program of honesty. he stood by and watched after knowing me and listening to what i had to say for 20 years in the name of anonimity... his.. or it is possible since keith is my middle name he didn't know my name when it was talked about officially or it is posssible he got his rumors mixed up like some other fine people in tallahassee and couldnt get the stories of keith b. and keith v. from becoming intermixed maybe. keith b. is a freind of mine i resign from a public orginazation when they tried to ban keith b. from the opprotunity to try and help himself there by rendering the very concept of thier purpose meaningless in my mind. i did a painting i will be glad to show again called has the message been replaced by rituals and askes the question if people are so wrapped up in doing things a certain way they have actually forgot what the word they are saying mean. i do have a circle with a triangel in this painting along with the obvious christian symbols and people in my little paint stories i tell with the many questions i ask. my art work asks real questions and that is why i cannot show it seriously in tallahssee though i have been in national shows and have even managed to get kicked off a free on line galerery with one of my dick cheney paintings entitled A PSYCHO-LOGICAL STUDY OF DICK IN d. C. I will wait until i find a way to get to california so i can freely show and talk about my art. The mary Brogan museum people pretend they dont know who i am and tell me they dont have time to actually look at my work even though it has been shown in the FSU museum and other places. could the fact that Jeb Bush was the governer of florida hat the time have anything to do with it...i wonder. what ever the reason i like the ordinary israelis and the ordinary arabs will some day soon maybe do is insist the people in power answer at least in word for thier wrong and in smoe cases tragic actions and reactions.. truth the ability to talk and be heard and the peaceful insistance by seemingly small ordinary people is what has always made a difference oh yes one one truely indespensable thing... Gods help and guidance in the struggle.. i'm no rosa parks but i honer her sacrifice and deeds and legacy. when normal israelies and normal arabs go over the heads of the insane few then they will have peace. in my opinion. but please check for truth i'm just the dyslexic artist son of a son of a south west virginia hillbilly. we dont look like much buut sometimes we are able to contribute 2 life

GT:

Same chance of a reasonable outcome, yes.

"East Jerusalem is occupied territory and has been since 1967. Only the Israelis believe in their nonsensse about East Jerusalem, the rest of the world does not."

Ahh yes.

FREE TIBET.

Free Palistine!

Stop building in the West Bank!

Water rights for Palistine!

Right now Bush and Condi Rice have abandoned fighting terror and have aligned the US with the Islamist terrorists Fatah and its terrorist leader Abbas.

Jersalem has been Jewish property for over 3200 years, before the pedophile Muhammed even started his terrorist based cult of pedophilia.

Only when decent people demand that we start fighting these muslim terrorists with the goal of actually winning and defeating them once and for all will the Islamist nightmare end

"By their fruits ye shall know them"

The fruit is violence.
The tree is religion.

Ms. Hoffman:

East Jerusalem is occupied territory and has been since 1967. Only the Israelis believe in their nonsensse about East Jerusalem, the rest of the world does not. It is dangerous commenting on this conflict, but your lack of facts is not at all helpful. The only legal Israel is pre-1967 Israel, everuything else belongs to someone else at least in the eyes of the entire world. The only outlier in any way is the United States which endorses much of Israel's land and water theft.