Comments (30)

So, after two days, we now know that Mohammed does not think this was evil.

Way to go MO!

Ummmm Mohamed? Did you get scared away? Please tell me if you think this atrocity counts as evil?

One more thing Mohamed,

Do you really think you will fool that many?

Mohamed my friend,

Let me try one more time... Was this evil?

I said:

"What you fail to see, and I know you are going to blame everyone else but yourself for this, but what you fail to see is that when you do not speak out against this, and people like you never do, you just confirm to all but the most blinkered fools that you sympathise more with the monsters than their victims."

I have never claimed that the US was perfect. It does not matter in any case. The morality of American policy, for good or bad, does not alter the morality of these monsters. They were either good or evil in their own right. The sets do not intersect. The existence of the crimes of Al Capone do not mitigate crimes of Charles Manson. Someone who knows game theory should at least be able to hear that very basic language.

So I ask again, were the people who strapped bombs onto unwitting women and then remotely detonated those women in a public market killing dozens, evil?

The fact that you can not say this, yet, you are continually willing to blame everyone and everything else - to talk about anything else- simply proves that you are either deluded or evil or both. Why are you a mouth-piece for evil?

Further, why should any decent person from America or Canada look on you with anything other than disgust for defending evil. Muslims like you, (many are good people, but I am talking about Muslims like you) can not have this both ways. You can not go on and on about your rage, and riot in Paris and blow people up all the time and refuse to even accept that what you do is utterly evil, and then expect the civilised world which very clearly got your message, to turn around and talk about how nice, loving and peaceful you are. We are not blind to the facts.

Mohamed my friend,

Let me try one more time... Was this evil?

I said:

"What you fail to see, and I know you are going to blame everyone else but yourself for this, but what you fail to see is that when you do not speak out against this, and people like you never do, you just confirm to all but the most blinkered fools that you sympathise more with the monsters than their victims."

I have never claimed that the US was perfect. It does not matter in any case. The morality of US policy, for good or bad, does not alter the morality of these monsters. They were either good or evil in their own right. The sets do not intersect. The existence of the crimes of Al Capone do not mitigate crimes of Charles Manson. Someone who knows game theory should at least be able to hear that very basic language.

So I ask again, were the people who strapped bombs onto unwitting women and then remotely detonated those women in a public market killing dozens, evil?

The fact that you can not say this, yet, you are continually willing to blame everyone and everything else - to talk about anything else- simply proves that you are either deluded or evil or both. Why are you a mouth-piece for evil?

Further, why should any decent person from America or Canada look on you with anything other than disgust for defending evil. Muslims like you, (many are good people, but I am talking about Muslims like you) can not have this both ways. You can not go on and on about your rage, and riot in Paris and blow people up all the time and refuse to even accept that what you do is not evil, and then expect the civilised world which very clearly got your message, to turn around and talk about how nice, loving and peaceful you are. We are not blind to the facts.

With respect, your problem is your misguided respect for what people claim to know that they can’t possibly know.

“As a strong proponent of other people's faith, I'm sympathetic to actions that people take when they believe they are operating according to God's will.”

As long as you, and millions of other willfully deluded people, continue to think this way we will never rid the world of the divisive and pernicious religious “faiths” that have caused such misery down through the ages. I’m hopeful that science will soon unlock enough of the mystery of the feelings of transcendence that most of us experience in our lives to help us move beyond the Iron Age myths that still plague the human race.

I’m agnostic, not atheist. But I’m also philosophically anti-theist. In my view, religion doesn’t “poison” everything, but it does warp everything it touches. I have respect for the numinous, for the transcendent aesthetic experience. The music of Mahler and Beethoven brings it out in me. I want to understand better what goes on in my brain to cause such feelings so that I can have more of them. To me it is self-evident that we should live our lives to maximize pleasure and minimize pain—for ourselves, but more importantly for others, since I’ve experienced how bringing pleasure to others brings the sweetest pleasure to ourselves. I hope I live long enough to see real progress towards a “brotherhood of man,” progress that will require that we throw off the shackles of our religious superstitions.

JOE, MY FRIEND,

You write : " In America,[and the West, including Canada, but more of these momentarily] we have values that include not doing such barbaric things."
I know -- America does civilized things like bombing whole countries back to the stone age,

Yo come back to Canada and 'the West', both of which your madness makes you believe you own. In the UK, Prince William, moments ahead of his visit to the US starting today, has just castigated the US for the enormous catastrophe he has led the 'coalition of the not-so-willing' into in Iraq. As for Canada, our Government has seriously been threatening pulling out of Afghanistan unless the purpose of the surge being requested from other NATO members is made clear. Canadians no longer buy the lie that NATO forces are in Afghanistan for nation-building, while what goes on is unremiting aggression and a build-up is on the way that points to a treacherous bid to establish permanent military bases in Afghanistan to be used for influence over the region's energy resources. This latter interpretation is not made explicit in the Canadian position and constitutes MY interpretation, but, explicitly, Canada is asking for clarifications. It's all in the news and you can verify.

Canadais too civilized a country to want to 'bomb any country back to the stone age'. We leave that to the most despicable type of barbarians.

Dear Mr. Malleck,

I am distressed that you confuse smug sophistry for sophistication. Perhaps you believe that is a winning game strategy. While your discussion of the American Civil war was completely off topic, your babble about the Milgram experiment actually raises an interesting point.

Are you suggesting that the Jihadists are weak-minded followers who have been told by authority to murder innocents for the goal of murdering more innocents? I am sure that there is a component of that. They were just following orders after all.

My earlier point about the post of the wretched Hamas animal was that this particular form of evil is utterly incapable of any self inspection. To be certain, you are a higher grade jihad propagandist than that dog who was born of a prostitute pig. However, I asked a very simple question and yet, you managed to talk about anything other than who was responsible for the evil acts or, if indeed, the acts even qualified as evil.

Fascinating that you cluck about my spreading of hatred. Yes, I freely admit that I hate the sort of monster that could strap a bomb onto himself or an innocent with the purpose of murdering other innocents. I hate all dangerous animals with evil in their hearts. Given that the victims here were Muslims too, you really can not make the argument that I am coming from a particular hatred of Islam.

However, let us talk about value systems while we are being cognitive. In America, and the West, including Canada, we have values that include not doing such barbaric things. You may have noticed it comes from a belief system rooted deeply in Judaism that cam here through Christianity. We call things like that monsterous, because they are. We also hate things like "honor" killings and irrational brutality. We actually value women in this culture. We actually believe in protecting people with ailments like Downs Syndrome.

What you fail to see, and I know you are going to blame everyone else but yourself for this, but what you fail to see is that when you do not speak out against this, and people like you never do, you just confirm to all but the most blinkered fools that you sympathise more with the monsters than their victims.

In this case the victims were not Jews, so I suppose there will not be so many sweets handed out, and I suppose there will not be so much dancing in the streets, yet, one would expect that since the victims were other Muslims, you would at least be a little upset about that.

But that is ok, because, the more you write, the more America will wake up to the evil that you represent. I suppose it is a winning strategy after all.

Yep. Neal.

MY cousin also hears voices in his head. It tells him to do some bizarre things -- like invading Iraq; like haranguing those whom Joseph Stiglitz calls "janitors' sons" with divinely-inspired injunctions such as those quoted in a cover story of Time magazine a few years ago "ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS"; like fabricating a casus belli to invade Iran; like planting the story making headlines today that 'Al Qaeda is shifting its focus to Pakistan', inpreparation for overt [no more covert] operations within Pakistani territory as preamble to the permanent military bases that will secure influence over Caspian Sea energy resources. [Oh! c'mon, Neal, don't tell me that you missed the story in NYT and in other newspapers yesterday about the gargantuan donation by Nursultan Nazarbayev to the "William J. Clinton Foundation" of a $31 million down-payment and pledge of $100 million more. Bill Clinton is reported to have renamed Nazrabayev
as "the Suharto of the Steppes"}

You remember, don't you, Neal, how my cousin named the voice in his head? "My higher father".

"This idea of weaponizing an unsuspecting individual with Downs Syndrome in order to kill even more unsuspecting individuals shook a lot of us up this weekend. That really does cross the line, I thought. But where is the line?

As a strong proponent of other people's faith, I'm sympathetic to actions that people take when they believe they are operating according to God's will. It is a powerful and motivating conversation. But suicide bombing turns one person's conversation with God into real-life despair for others."

When someone believes they're having a chat with a supreme being, it would seem it's pretty much up to the supreme being where the line is.

My cousin hears voices in her head too. It tells her to do some bizarre things. Unfortunately, her voice is named Sid, so she spends a lot of time under medication and supervision.

Gazans are celebrating the suicide bombing in Israel that killed 1 woman.

Is the author saying that the suicide bombing of civilians is fine as long as it is done by sane people? Perhaps so, but only in Islam.

JOE,

No, my friend, I am not an expert on neuroscience (although I know more than just a little Math, especially Game Theory). I only happen to read relatively widely and not shallow topics. When I read an article on morality that refers to the Milgram experiment or the Stanford prison experiment on torture, I not only look those up but if there are further references to the works of Steven Pinker, I read up on those as well, for example on edge.org. It helps that I am not stumped by equations Believe me, that is more rewarding than hate literature.

Now, to come back to why Muslims end up blowing each other up. That's the same as the Americans blowing each other up in the American Civil War. You know full well that the Civil War did not start with the high ideal of LIBERATING the African-American slaves --- the Republican party, (the one that Michael Moore and I love) after its election victory, had opposed the EXPANSION of the practice of slavery to the northern states and the southern states had moved to secede, so it was a war against secesion --- only afterwards was LIBERATION added to the agenda. So, an outsider who comments that, loss of freedom is less severe than loss of life, and Yankees were crazies to kill the Confederates just don't understand the context and the motivations and the dynamics. Another neurological -- yes, buster, neurological --- factor to add is the kind of phenomenon that made Patricia Hurst sympathize with her Symbionese Liberation Army captors and torturers to the point of joining them to rob a bank. Add just these two ingredients and you get the kind of explosive mix that cause the phenomena you are talking about. In the case of suicide bombings, there are not two ingredients, there is a deadly cocktail.

My friend Joe! The Almighty -- call Him like me Allah Subhaana Wata'ala, call Him Yahwe, call Him Jesus, call Him Goodness, as Daniel Dennett named the atribute that he deified when he felt gratefulness for the surgeon who saved his life during Thanksgiving 2006 (a feat that my wife does almost daily for her patients) when Daniel wrote a WAPO On Faith blog titled Thank Goodness --- has endowed us with faculties that we can use for the betterment of humankind. Let's do so instead of indulging in spreading hatred.

No Mohammed Malik. You no go back. You go internment camp until terror war over. You look just like enemy. We know you not enemy so you go camp where safe. Peaceful brother Muslim strap bomb to you. Maybe blow up police station. Make you dead like dumb women not in internment camp. You go camp so you no dead. We love you. You get out when war over.

Ketz and others may not want to deal with Muslims but it is certain that there are Muslims that would like to deal with them.

Alright. I just found this out and I can't believe it.

Iranian authorities are arresting people for WALKING THEIR DOGS and taking their dogs away!

Apparently Islamic Law finds dogs UNCLEAN and anyone who owns one is IMMORAL.

First we are told there are no homosexuals in Iran and now no dogs too? .. what a hellwhole!

DOGS ARRESTED FOR WALKING IN IRAN (NBC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W0h-UlffgY

Mohammed Malik - are you now an expert on neuroscience as well as abstract mathematics?

Would you do me the kindness of simply commenting on how it is possible that so many of the peaceful, peace loving followers of the Religion of Peace spend so much time murdering each other and other innocents?

If that is too much, how about simply stating for the record, that using unknowing women as bomb delivery units adds an extra facet to the horror of this barbarity?

Thanks, Anon.

"The best way to deal with Muslims is not to deal with them at all.."

Believe it or not -this is actively being pursued. Troops would have to pull back. And as Mohammed states to "not deal with them at all" would include expelling all Muslims from your country. This has already begun as "forced repatriation" in some nations and may be the natural end to war.

"The best way to deal with Muslims is not to deal with them at all. So, let's start by not inventing wars against them. Let's sustain the effort by pulling our troops out of their lands. let's lend our efforts to Catherine Gunn, a British whistleblower whose actions, Daniel Ellsberg (the same hero who, in 1971, leaked the Pentagon Papers about the Vietnam War and forced the American pullout from that country) believes, were more important then the release of the Pentagon Papers, because she gave information at a time that could have prevented the Iraq war.
Gunn, who worked as an employee for British Intelligence, Government Communication Headquarters, revealed a document showing the US was "tapping the UN security council members in order to influence their votes in support of an aggressive war, which was about to take place," says Ellsberg.
This was front-page news, not only in London, says Ellsberg, but all over the world, except the US, where it did not appear for about 11 months. Ellsberg says it was reasonable to believe she could have stopped the war, and he believes she prevented the UN Security Council vote in support of the war.

Now,both Ellsberg and Gunn believe that Bush is doing everything to fabricate a casus belli for war against Iran. Let's help Ellsberg and Gunn. Let's stop Bush."

Thank you.

P.S. If you want me to 'go back' (I am not in the US but in Canada, but then there are folks blogging on WAPO On Faith Forum who think they own 'The West') as a counterpart for your pulling out of Iraq and not fabricating a casus belli for war against Iran, I'll be happy to go immediately after you have pulled out.

Thank you

Hamaser: "WAPO is Jewish and Jewish is Israel."
----------------------
The above is the classic reasoning of a bigot. Hamaser, if your argument is based on falsehoods, then the conclusion is also false. Basic reasoning- try it. To be Jewish is not to be Zionist- they are two different things. As a non-Zionist person of Jewish upbringing, I find your attempts to spread bigotry offensive and idiotic.

I you write about something you know nothing about, your writing will be quickly ascertained as propaganda, you are not going to be taken seriously - except as a bigot who promotes violence against the targets of your hate.

Under God? That's an absolute definite maybe, before we even attempt to say which God IT is that whatever is Under.

But then there's, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul

Predictably, presented that interpretation, 5th graders would see the logic of the most likely case being Moses sold his soul to the Devil, (Lucifer?). Children ask questions not allowed by adults. That says something kinda eucky about grown ups doesn't it?

That's what Bill Clinton did prior to September 11 - we see how that did a lot of good. Always have been a democrat and likely always will be - but I don't support those who want to preach victimization for the rest of their lives. The democracy I believe in supports people who are interested in coexistance and trying to make something for their families - not blowing others up for their perpetual jihad and then serving flowers and candy in celebration of it.

"The best way to deal with Muslims is not to deal with them at all. So, let's start by not inventing wars against them."

Thank you

"Remember NOVEMBER 1963,remember DIMA remember JFK!!!!!"

Sentiments like this are truly saddening. This happened 45 years ago. All the participants are dead and buried, and most of their philosophy died and was buried with them, too.

1963 was a US in which citizens who had a trivial, unimportant difference in skin tone find themselves restricted in where they could live, eat, go to the bathroom, play. If we all lived in the past, we would be condemning ourselves to that which we should fear the most - an inability to grow past our mistakes (personally and collectively).

Move forward, Hamaser. View the world as it is, not as it was.

"The best way to deal with Muslims is not to deal with them at all. So, let's start by not inventing wars against them."

Thank you

I watched two videos posted here recently under "Women as Bombs".

The first was a music video praising a young woman's decision to kill herself as a walking bomb and leave her two small children motherless. It begins with her young daughter saying "mother where are you going" and ends with the daughter saying "tell our prophet our greetings and tell him Doha (her name?) loves you. my love will not be with my words. i will follow my mother's steps.(repeated several times)." The comments to this youtube were left by mostly young Muslims saying how they loved the song.

But it was the second video that really tore my heart. It was a man interviewing the two small children whose mother was glorified as a woman suicide bomber. The little girl holds herself tightly and speaks in a whispered tortured voice as her interviewer with a smile on his face prods her to praise her mother's death. Chilling. See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEB0SvMzKzg

How appalling that Muslims allow and applaud this twisted behavior. Are they all brainwashed into thinking death is better than life? Is it some kind of death cult? And where is this going? Where will it all end?

There is another video on the Dennett blog that is titled, "Muslim Grievances". It's supposed to be funny and has two men discussing and arguing over a list of political and theological grievences the Muslims have against the West- like the existance of Israel and the Jews, democracy, homosexuals, Hindus, music and art..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWN3twz6cQY

I've thought about it and it's really not funny. That list is real and there is no way to appease someone with such a twisted mindset.

And now they are using mentally challenged women to be their pack animals. By using "useless inferior" women to carry their explosives and remote control devices to detonate them- they are living and free to kill again. And they have made "martyrs" of the women and sent them off to "paradise". Right?

Twisted. Where is it going and Where will it end?

ps-To the poster who questions whether the women were mentally challenged. If the women were willing, intentional bombers who bravely and knowingly went to their deaths-- why detonate with the remote control and why no "allahu akbar"?

Claire,

I had told you, in the context of your comments about Neuroscience and the Moral Instinct article by Steven Pinker, that you read all the shallow, biased literature (regarding morality and neuroscience, the trash published by the likes of Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens instead of Friedman's "How Brains Make Up Their Minds"; regarding the Baghdad pet market bombings, Haaretz, especially the rant of Bradley Burston instead of the more reasoned articles of the likes of Gideon Levy and Amira Haass), and that contributes to your ignorance.

Thopaine also took you to task.

Be more eclectic next time and more discerning.

Well said. I hope that the world will begin to wake up to the evil of the Jihadists and truly accept the gruesome reality that you can not compromise with evil. Do not make this into a question of nice Islam vs. not nice Islam. It is so much bigger than that.

One of the particular peculiarities of this evil is that it can not look at itself for a moment. Even it's own acts belong to someone else.

Look at mr. Hamaser's quote for a second. The fellow is appoplectic! No, I'm sorry my little, jihadist buddy, the Jews did not do this. You guys did.

WAPO says they are mentally defective.Ha!Prove it!Maybe WAPO can run a cat scan on their severed heads if they can even find them.WAPO is Jewish and Jewish is Israel.I suppose all of the 9/11 hijackers were mentally defective too.Israeli propaganda is what you get from WAPO.Remember NOVEMBER 1963,remember DIMA remember JFK!!!!!

yes violence is not to be condoned 4 anything accept true self defense although jeasu showed us with his whip what he thought of the money changers who wood subvert the meaning and try to sell what has freely been given by god.... we have modern day moneychangers and power brokers who care nothing about the suffering of either side in many conflicts only that they be able to stir thier evil pot and graze and harvest the misery for themselves and thier own selfish needs. i see these people as social preditors and mentally ill because no amount of power or money with salve thier deep wopunds which i suspect are in reality the knowledge that they are indeed inferior in thier present state but being to narcicissistic to actually think it is themselves that need to change not the rest of the worrld..we should put them in a nice place to where they can do no harm... we should put thier names on milk cartons and walls in every hall of every community in the world so there is no place for thenm to pretend any longer... they may be worse than sex abusers (i dam not making any claim to knowlege here justr putting forth a line of reasoning to be define by those who can address the issue) besuase a horny sex offender candn only be discusting a certain amount of times a day without actually damaging his own body in the process but the social preditors spred thier misery 24 hors a day every day... i think also the mentally challenge pawns in irag are not too much different than in some cases the highly intelligent pawns of the people who actually set in motion the conflicts which have by simple human nature and human weaknesses predictable weaknessses. ... please people of the world turn your head no more thinking incorrectly i think that the clear actions you see but don't confront with at least nothing else the spoken truth to each other.. but check 4 truth i'm just an artist