A group that calls itself Anonymous has been putting the Church of Scientology in a world of hurt lately-with cyber mischief and costumed protests around the world -- but nobody much seems to care. Why?
In Monday's LA Times Michael Shermer, the publisher of Skeptic magazine, says it's because most people don't consider the Church a church.
Shermer writes that "this latest turn against the organization founded in 1954 by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard has an air of farcical comedy to it. Why? Why aren't civil rights organizations and anti-hate-speech activists pouncing on these protesters? The reason, I suspect, is that most of us do not consider Scientology a religion, at least not a religion that resembles in the slightest the world's major faiths."
He continues:
"I'm a scientist who studies belief systems for a living, so take it from me: Scientology is unlike any other religion in history. Although the Church of Scientology is recognized by the Internal Revenue Service as a tax-exempt religion (despite years of litigation by the IRS to collect taxes on its income), no other religion I know of considers theological doctrines and core religious tenets to be intellectual property accessible only for a fee."
Just to re-cap what's been going on, a group of anti-Scientologists calling themselves "Anonymous" have been organizing on the web and in the streets for at least the last few weeks. On January 21st, they released a YouTube video and then another on the 10th of February, which coincided with demonstrations at Scientology centers in New York, Toronto, Britain, Australia. Protestors creepily wore Guy Fawkes/"V for Vendetta" masks and, in Los Angeles, held posters that read "Religion Is Free, Scientology Is Not" and "Trade Secrets Are For Business, Not Religion" and "Honk If You Hate Scientology."
Certainly, as Shermer points out in his column, the Church of Scientology has a highly commodified approach to religious teaching, with expensive books, audio recordings and lessons necessary to achieve spiritual enlightenment. But Shermer starts to sound naive when he says that what isn't tolerated these days is "the hypocrisy of comporting itself as a faux religion in a society willing to reward corporate success but not religious greed."
For a skeptic, Shermer sounds like an optimist. I think most readers of this blog who have belonged to a religious organization at some point in life will agree with me that Scientology is by no means alone in it's pursuit of worldly gain. So is it because most people don't believe Scientology is deserving of the First Amendment shroud?
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Comments (186)
About 50 years ago, L. Ron Hubbard believed he had tapped into all the “great minds of the Universe,” which would give him the ability to invent dozens of revolutionary technological devices that would transform mankind. And then he invented -- drum roll please -- the e-meter.
But wait, lie detectors had already been invented, and the e-meter is just a shoddy, insensitive version of a lie detector’s ability to measure galvanic skin response. The e-meter doesn’t also measure pulse, respiration or blood pressure as do modern lie detectors.
But combined with L. Ron Hubbard’s psychobabble hypno-brainwashing technique (reworked from Freud, other psychotherapy and hypnosis, including Satanic rituals), he claimed the e-meter could free a person of all their fears, traumas, and ills and also increase their IQ.
John Travolta and Tom Cruise are examples of the intellect made titanic through Scientology. Both are high school dropouts who are hard pressed to speak in complete sentences without a script. I challenge either to pass a GED exam.
Not only could this therapy claim to cure insanity, or make "the sane saner," it could also be used to regress, at first, to the time of birth, but Hubbard was brilliant enough to discover that extended sessions could be used for people to explore any number -- pocketbook permitting -- of past lives.
Fifty years later -- blast from kazoo orchestra please -- Scientology has brought us, the e-meter, again. Yup, basically the same one they used back then.
Where is the cure for cancer, or the "briefcase-sized frequency pulsating oscillator" device that could cure an institutionalized insane person in two seconds?
Their answer: You won't get cancer, or be insane, if you are a "Scientologist." And, smoking cigarettes can help in fighting a number of diseases that afflict the human organism, as possessed by evil body Thetans in the spirit of Xenu…
May 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 11, 2008 13:20
Slyvia
Please show proof of any of your claims. Anonymous has not threatened any of the church leaders or buildings.
as a brilliant lawyer once said: If the glove does not fit you must aquit. well this glove certainly doesnt fit.
May 7, 2008 5:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 7, 2008 17:37
"Those who find it works for them and improves their lives should be free to continue to follow the religion."
And those who wish to LEAVE should be allowed to do so without interrogation, without kidnapping, without imprisonment and without any of their other CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS being violated. No one is attacking your FAITH here Sylvia. If you would read the comments you'd realize that they are calling for REFORM of the corrupt organization which lies to you. Christians and Atheists alike had the right to protest teh Pope and ask him about child molesting priests. Anonymous has every right to point out the corruption in your faith's leaders as well.
Welcome to America, Freedom of Speech works both ways.
May 7, 2008 12:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 7, 2008 12:50
It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to go clear, the state which Scientology claims holds the ability to be free from disease, have mind over matter powers, along with other highly fanciful notions. Jason Beghe pointed out in his interview after his recent departure that this state of being for the entire planet simply isn't possible. There isn't enough money in the world for everyone to pay for the courses required to go clear. Scientology doesn't care about the poor. Only the rich. I wonder why.
May 7, 2008 12:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 7, 2008 12:45
The issues being discussed are unbelievably full of vitriolic comments.
Scientologists deserve the same rights and treatment as others in society. The problem with the Anonymous attack is that it is not free speech but hate speech. Threats to assassinate the President of the Church, threats to "dismantle" the Church, bomb threats, fake food orders which hurt merchants who unknowingly attempt to deliver huge orders, nasty prank phone calls etc. This is not the behavior of intellectual discussion and debate.
My religion works for me and has helped me greatly in my life. We work extensively for human rights around the world, work to improve education, promote drug-free living and educate children and teenagers about the dangers of illegal drugs, and help prisoners to look at their lives and work out how to survive once they leave prison. These are the works of people who care about the world around them and their fellow man. If you do not like our beliefs it is very, very simple. Don't become a Scientologist!!!
Those who find it works for them and improves their lives should be free to continue to follow the religion.
If this type of assault and harassment was occuring to a Jewish synagogue there would be international news condemning it. To quote Rodney King "Why can't we all just get along?"
February 23, 2008 6:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 23, 2008 06:53
"All the posts comparing Scientology to other religions are red herrings. The issue Anonymous is protesting is the Church of Scientology's business and social practices. The fact or opinion that other organizations act the same way is irrelevant."
Why is that irrelevant? Shouldn't we condemn all religions and organizations that follow the same despicable business and social practices? Anonymous is exactly right in bringing Scientology's heinous practices to light. My concern is that such a narrow focus may unintentionally give credence to Scientology's false claim that Anonymous has a personal vendetta. Any organization that acts as Scientology does deserves condemnation.
February 22, 2008 6:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 22, 2008 06:34
David Miscavige's mother-in-law, "Flo" Barnett, died from four rifle shots, three to the chest and one to the head. Originally classified as a "suicide," upon closer inspection it was determined from the ballistics and the height of Ms. Barnett that the wounds could not have been self-inflicted. Evidence was collected that just one week prior to her death, Ms. Barnett had threatened to sue the Church, and was in contact with David Mayo, a former member who was an avowed enemy of David Miscavige.
Furthermore, one of David Miscavige's sisters had committed suicide after completing OT VII. Another sister left the church and became a prostitute after starting the OT levels. David Miscavige's own father was once arrested for rape.
Lets' face it. It hain't the Holy Family.
February 22, 2008 2:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 22, 2008 02:23
"I think Scientology is misusing copyright law, non-profit organization law and first amendment law. "
Said opinion would carry a lot more weight if you actually knew something about copyright law, non-profits and the First Amendment. But your argument shows that you don't:
"Copyright law was not created to keep intellectual property “secret” and unused. In general property law bestows ownership rights to those who are willing to USE the property to generate more goods for the society (putting it in the marketplace to buy or rent). Intellectual property rights, and specifically copyright rights, were designed to reward those who put intellectual property to use in the marketplace or incorporate it in products that are put in the market place."
It sounds like you're confusing copyright law with patent law, among other problems. Anyway, suffice it to say that copyright law is exactly that: the right to control who can make copies of your speech. Moreover, it's not an effective way of keeping things secret: it doesn't prevent people from quoting your material for purposes of review and criticism, and you have to disclose exactly what it is that you're copyrighting in order to get the copyright in the first place. All it does is prevent others from redistributing your work wholesale.
"Because churches exists, there are places people can openly debate what is ethical and virtuous, "
Doesn't sound like most churches I know. They usually tend to be less of a debate, and more of a... what's the word... sermon.
"If Scientology is not allowing their ideas about ethics and virtue to reach the marketplace of ideas,"
Funny, I thought they sold Dianetics nationwide. I also seem to recall tv ad campaigns for it, and celebrities like Tom Cruise are out stumping for the Church all the time. It's strange that so many arguments against Scientology are premised on them being a totally closed society, while the rest complain about them being overly aggressive in trying to spread their ideas.
"Commercial speech, speech designed to generate profit, is not protected from government censorship."
Well, not AS protected as non-commerical speech anyway (which itself has limits as well).
"Movie makers censor themselves (the rating system), but government reserves the right to create decency laws and step in if the industry doesn’t sufficiently self police."
Laws limiting obscenity have nothing to do with the distinction between commercial and non-commercial speech.
"If scientology is copyrighting its communications, isn’t it declaring that its communications are commercial speech rather than first amendment speech?"
No. In fact, the only way to ensure that your speech isn't commercialized by someone else is to copyright it. To exclude copyrighted material from First Amendment protection would be tantamount to repealing the First Amendment.
"Shouldn’t that make their speech subject to governmental censorship?"
By the way, this is a non-sequitur. You just finished complaining about how they don't distribute their speech enough, and now you're proposing that the government prevent them from distributing it?
Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear a reasoned, rational criticism of Scientology's status. I've heard plenty of decent criticisms of their tenets and practices (which is easy enough to do with any religion, let along this one), but all of the arguments for changing their status have struck me as profoundly dishonest and hypocritical. Hate Scientology all you want, but don't insult the rest of us by pretending your position is all logic and dispassion. This propensity to use the levers of state power to persecute rival faiths is abhorrent, and is exactly what the First Amendment was intended to prevent in the first place.
Being too smart/skeptical to go in for Scientology's claptrap is a good thing. Using the government to persecute them so that you'll feel less insecure about the claptrap your religion peddles is a bad thing.
February 21, 2008 6:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 18:14
The "church" of $cientology has made a point of setting itself apart from the other religions of this world by its venal use of deception in order to get people involved in it and it's use of the legal system to silence any critics by using lawsuits as a constant bludgeon against any who dare criticize it.
If people would inform and educate themselves about this cult and it's criminal acts (Google operation snow white and operation freakout) and bring pressure to bear on our representatives to investigate this group they would be forced to clean up their act.
February 21, 2008 5:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 17:51
All the posts comparing Scientology to other religions are red herrings. The issue Anonymous is protesting is the Church of Scientology's business and social practices. The fact or opinion that other organizations act the same way is irrelevant.
Watch interviews and confrontations with scientologists. They are incapable of logical argument. They'll always resort to telling what they call "acceptable truths" or attacking others (ad hominem). When critics publish damning internal CoS documents, the Scientologists first accuse the critics of lying, then when docs are revealed as true (like the OT3/xenu myth was revealed as legitimate after an FBI raid) they switch tactics and claim copyright infringement. They throw lawyers and money at critics while investigating them "noisely" and publically attacking them with anything they dig up. They do the same against anyone who tries to help. They even manufacture evidence against people (google Operation Freakout). Note that during scientology "auditing", scientologists reveal the skeletons in their closets and that information is written down and saved. Anyone who leaves scientology and speaks out against them is attacked and the CoS starts off well-armed. People are right to be critical of this "religion", and anyone who is well informed about them who isn't critical is likely getting paid by them or afraid to speak out, or already under court injunction. Those that are neutral to them either don't care (which is fine - we all need to pick our battles), or need to do some more research.
Quote from Hubbard, "Attacks on Scientology", HCO Policy Letter of 15 Feb 1966
"Attackers are simply an anti-Scientology propaganda agency so far as we are concerned. They have proven they want no facts and will only lie no matter what they discover. So BANISH all ideas that any fair hearing is intended and start our attack with their first breath. Never wait. Never talk about us - only them. Use their blood, sex, crime to get headlines. Don't use us.
I speak from 15 years of experience in this There has never yet been an attacker who was not reeking with crime. All we had to do was look for it and murder would come out.
They fear our Meter. They fear freedom. They fear the way we are growing. Why?
Because they have too much to hide."
February 21, 2008 1:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 13:35
I am flabbergasted at the inability, arrogance, knowledge base, and lack of doctrine to support some people opinions about faith.
What I hear and read is mere human opinions base on nothingness. The Church of Scientology is nothing more then another false organization of faith leading cult.
That is like the mindless gibberish I hear in social setting etc, where people exactly believe that they can be spiritual with out religious, which is ludicrous.
The true is that we all are spirit, but being spiritual without being a religious person is nothing. Allow me to elaborate; when you are just spiritual it is base on nothing, you have known doctrine to support your belief.
A religious and spiritual person daily living and knowledge base, is base on the word of God support by doctrine that supports your spirituality.
The Bible combines Scripture with the principles that guide people by applying the word of God to your daily living, so without the word of God, then your living your life on your own understanding or other wordily belief’s.
Furthermore, how are you going to learn about God, Jesus Christ, The Holy spirit, Church, fellowship, forgiveness, prayer, God’s will, and more?
You can believe in the propaganda of the word or you can learn and believe in the word of God.
I am for one comfortable in the word of God, and my faith, Christian Baptist belief and the direction my faith is leading.
It is hard for me to believe in the false doctrine and beliefs of mere men, organizations, and opinions.
I would never forfeit my honor to God, His son Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, church and His word, for the false benefits of the world.
I believe anyone can choose to believe in whatever you base your life on, But what really matter at the end of your life, will be the result of that choice, when you stand before your maker.
Stay blessed, keep God first, and walk in victory!
February 21, 2008 12:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 12:17
I don't like Scientology and its ways, and I believe it was created as a business, not a spiritual enterprise.
But as to its keeping things secret and charging initiates to move up the levels, that's been a feature of mystery religions/cults since at least the ancient Greeks.
February 21, 2008 12:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 12:12
Scientology differs from religion in that religious people want to share their message with the world, in hopes that everyone can find enlightenment. You can find the Bible everywhere, even if you're not looking for it. The Book of Mormon, the Koran, even the Jehovah's Witnesses have their version of the Bible. Each group of devotees wants you to use their version because, well, everyone else's is wrong and if you listen to them you'll go to hell.
They all want you to read it and spread "the good word," at least whatever version of it they endorse. Religions, as well as most self-respecting cults, do not sue people for repeating their teachings, they encourage it.
That's the point of religion -- spreading your set of beliefs, because if everyone "got" it, the world would be perfect.
If you're a Christian, you don't have to be the Church Lady to arrive at the obvious conclusion to be drawn from a group that wants to be secret, with their teachings hidden from the outside world. Could it be...?
If you're an aetheist, unable to buy into the heaven and hell concept that the entire world seems to be convinced of, I'm thinking that tiny aliens from a volcano are going to be a little hard to swallow.
My personal opinion is that Scientology appears to be an exclusive club for rich people and Tom Cruise is the Grand Poobah. The admission fee and the alien gibberish is to keep out the riff-raff.
February 21, 2008 11:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 11:43
The Kabbalah Center is the next Scientology. Same pyramid scheme, same rich bastard charlatans at the top, same brainwashing, same pseudoscientific nonsense, same unbounded superstitious absurdities. It's tragic.
February 21, 2008 11:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 11:17
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February 21, 2008 10:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 10:25
flakes, all of them
and suckers too.
We in America revere the Charismatic Con-artist.
to our own demise.
(see GWBush)
What idiot would believe the crud found in this 'religion'?
...someone being preyed upon by lechers.
February 21, 2008 10:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 10:14
Jim,
It saddens me to hear such pessimism from a follower of Jesus Christ. Perhaps God has put you in a place or with a congregation where you can create change. Granted, there are a number of members in my own church that would be considered "rich" by today's standards, but that isn't an indicator of their sprituality or their relationship with Christ. Some of these people that I know on a personal level give back tremendously to the church and the community.
As for me personally, I'm not quite sure how you determined that I am trying to "buy" my way to Heaven. There is only way to Heaven, and the Bible is explicit on that.
Rich blessings.
February 21, 2008 9:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:58
Scamology,
If the charge was merely a "voluntary tithe" of 10% of your income, would that make it any less of a con?
February 21, 2008 9:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:56
I grok Scientology to be a fraud, and LRH is not much of science fiction writer, Philip Dick or Clarke would have come up with such a better back story than the Xenu the warrior galactic federation leader.
Problem is in 20 years, none of the original scammers will be left alive, but their scam will keep on growing with true believers carrying it on.
February 21, 2008 9:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:52
"God from above" - an expert's view on religion ?
Religion is personal. The First Amendment protects you from the experts defining it for you. The First Amendment also protects the cynics and clowns. The First Amendment is about freedom and choice. What you do with that freedom is .. up to you. You can even use it to slander religions teaching respect for yourself and others.
February 21, 2008 9:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:47
Any so called religion that 'charges' its members for participation or enlightenment is nothing more than a con.
Unfortunately for many people are too stupid to know they are being conned, robbed and fleeced, until they have been cleaned out.
This is one group I would not mind seeing the FBI go after as a criminal organization.
February 21, 2008 9:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:41
It is bad enough the degree to which we have religion in this country that is legalistic and materialistic but Scientology mimics religion in order to achieve the material gains of religion. It has adopted some of the symbols of religion, it has its own language to create cohesion and uniqueness but pays exceptional attention to "tithing". Watching their leaders wax indignantly about offenses to their "faith" is galling. They are a satire of religion if anything.
February 21, 2008 9:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:40
The problem is not Scientology or any other religion as I see it.
The problem ultimately is ourselves, and the mind created fiction we call "ego". This is the little tyrant that lives in fear and convinces us of the need to be right on every topic or matter at hand, or we'll be diminished, or worst case perish.
It looks for a belief system to give meaning to its existence, and that promises its continuance in some fashion. If power or feeling special comes with the religion of choice, so much the better for the ego.
Transcending ego is the real invitation.
February 21, 2008 9:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:32
Brambleton,
I was born in the church. I was baptized because I wanted to be baptized. I unconditionally and willingly believe in God the Father, Jesus his Son and the Mother who I consider to be the Holy Spirit.
I am sixty five years old and attended churches for more years than most people have been alive. It with sadness that I came to the conclusion on what we call religion and church today. You come across as one of the disillusioned mass who thinks you can buy your way into heaven by fitting your pastor in linen.
One of Jesus’ first actions was to flush the vermin out of the church. I suspect that will once again be one of his first actions upon his return. As for those who consider themselves religious while condoning the invasion of Iraq that has cost thousands of lives or the death penalty the hatred of others like Scientologist will be the least of your worries. From a proud liberal. END THE WAR IN IRAQ.
February 21, 2008 9:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:26
Their tax exempt status should be revoked. They are a fake religion built on making money. Ever heard this phase?..."If you want to get rich in this country, all you have to do is start your own religion." First uttered by L. Ron Hubbard.
February 21, 2008 9:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:21
Another tiny little man in black.
February 21, 2008 9:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:20
Maynard James Keenan says it best in the lyrics for the Tool song "Aenema".
February 21, 2008 9:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:18
While people are entitled to "believe" in anything, I do agree with "Toni in LA" that scientology should not be covered by the non-profit category. In addition, most mega-churches shouldn't either. I think we need to scrub what is considered a "religion" as defined by the law.
February 21, 2008 9:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:13
''Scientology is as much a religion as Christianity or Hinduism (and no I am not a scientologist).
People have a right to choose their spiritual practice....period! I find it funny that religious people tend to diss on other religions while demanding respect for their own.
If you believe in religious freedom for yourself then you are obligated to show a little respect for people who believe differently than you.''
I suggest you learn more about the Church of Scientology. It is responcible for HUNDREDS of deaths due to taking people off their ''evil'' medication, in some cases leading them to stab their own parents. People who disagree are subjected to torment by their ''fair game'' policy, meaning any Scientologist can spread lies about them, maim them or use R2-45 on them without being punished in a legal system, due to the Church's army of lawyers paid by brainwashed members' life savings.
This isn't avout religion or faith, it's about human rights. Learn more about the CoS, please.
February 21, 2008 9:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:05
I’m a new critic of Scientology. It’s criminal organization that won its status as a religion by coercion and blackmail of public officials. L. Ron Hubbard was a con man and David Miscavige is a megalomaniacal tyrant. Germany is right in barring them from their country. We need to do the same thing here. Revoke Co$ tax privileges now. Xenu isn't real.
February 21, 2008 9:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 09:00
The motivation for groups like Anonymous is understandable. Scientology pursues power and profit more nakedly than other religions, and Hubbard's dubious motives in starting the religion are well known. But I also agree that many religions' beliefs and practices may not be able to withstand the type of scrutiny that Scientology receives.
The First Amendment issue here is that the tax exemption on religious organizations puts the IRS in the awkward position of deciding what constitutes a religion. The IRS could just as easily comply with the First Amendment by lifting the exemption entirely. This would still treat all religions equally with no favoritism toward any one religion.
February 21, 2008 8:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:55
Recently, I have become a victim of unworthiness. See my net worth excludes me from love. There will be no trophy wife for this bum.
Now, maybe I could learn to fly a jet aircraft but what would I do with a license to fly ? Would I deliver smallpox vaccinations, fly politicians from point a to b or try to overcome the effects of transportation costs on the global war against poverty ?
In any event, I do have a right to take my meds.
February 21, 2008 8:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:49
Scientology is as much a religion as Christianity or Hinduism (and no I am not a scientologist).
People have a right to choose their spiritual practice....period! I find it funny that religious people tend to diss on other religions while demanding respect for their own.
If you believe in religious freedom for yourself then you are obligated to show a little respect for people who believe differently than you.
February 21, 2008 8:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:49
For starters, this is a constructed cult. I say cult, becuase their tie is not to God, or a version of God, but to aliens and science fiction. As an athesist, I do not care for relgion in general, but understand that as social constructs religion and religious organization play a role in society and the personal lives of others, so I try not pass judgement, but in the case of Scientology, common sense kicks in and says "CULT". Does anyone rember the cult that believed in the mothership coming in with the Hale-Bop Comet? They believed in aliens just like Scientology.
February 21, 2008 8:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:47
Bud,
"By definition, all religions require unconditional acceptance of its doctrines and practices, which cannot be rejected or even questioned."
If that were true, then Christianity wouldn't have the number of denominations that is has today. For example, as a Baptist, I don't believe in infant baptism, but my Presbyterian brother-in-law does. We're both Christian and neither one of us believes that the other is going to Hell because of our belief in infant baptism.
Here is your homework assignment. Find a local church in your area, call the Pastor, and ask him if anybody ever questions Biblical interpretations.
February 21, 2008 8:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:39
Let me try to sum up here. We have many who think Scientology is a cult and not a religion because they find it to be repulsive. Then we have the Smug Ones who believe that faith in anything (except their own cherished notions) is contemptible and that therefore all religions are "cults." Then we have the legalists who wish to instruct us about the constitutional proprieties. And there are even a few Scientologists out there!
Look, we have to face the fact that most Americans operate under the absurd presumption that no one has the right to tell us what to think or do, but that we have the right to tell others what to think or do, and that the political and legal systems can be used to enforce our notions on others. Seen in this light, one might say the following to the above four groups:
1) In the absence of real crimes that can be prosecuted, feelings of personal repulsion cannot dictate how others are treated by society as a whole. And criminalizing thoughts and beliefs is cheating.... and dangerous - before you know it, it might be yours that are criminalized.
2) Stop whining about the tax-exempt status of "cults" and organize one of your own - cash in! How's this for a name of your new religion: "The Church of the All-Knowing." Here's another one, " The Holy Fellowship of the Insufferably Superior."
3) The law IS important, but only as long as we can keep it from being the tool of those who would use it to compel belief or behavior, not protect it.
4) If you want protection from what you see as persecution, your group has to be scrupulous in protecting the integrity and autonomy of group members and non-members alike. Otherwise all bets are off in this society - and deservedly so!
February 21, 2008 8:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:38
well as everyone knows, Scientology is more of a business than a religion. it's like mediums, mystics, and the like. a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.
Tom Cruise <3 Mudkips
February 21, 2008 8:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:28
Jim,
The Christian faith is not about being wealthy or driving expensive cars. Maybe you feel that way because you can't separate the wolf from the sheep. I'm quite positive that if you stepped foot into your local church, you wouldn't come away with the same feelings. But that would require some effort now, wouldn't it? Easier to stereotype millions of people based on what the NY Times tells you about Jim & Tammy Baker.
Maybe we should all take your approach. Bill Clinton is a liar and adulterer, so I guess all men are the same?
February 21, 2008 8:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:22
These protests have nothing whatsoever to do with the 1st Amendment, any other part of the Constitution, or any other part of U.S. law. Other posters have mentioned this is as well... while it was interesting to read about the protests and surrounding information, it was disappointing to realize that the "opinion" offered by the columnist didn't hold much water; the question she was trying to ask simply didn't apply. Next time, either stick with the facts and hope that sparks a conversation, or do the background research required to provide an informed opinion.
February 21, 2008 8:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:19
"The problem with scientology is that they are a soul destroying cult. There is a difference between faith and brainwashing."
Really??? By definition, all religions require unconditional acceptance of its doctrines and practices, which cannot be rejected or even questioned. I fail to see the difference.
February 21, 2008 8:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:12
Is Vicki Iseman a scientologist?
February 21, 2008 8:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 08:05
Modern religions and modern churches are no more associated with God then a monkey is associated to man. The hypocrisy of the Christian churches and religions is on full display when they condemn Scientology.
Christian churches and religions and that include Muslims and Jews are collecting and spending huge sums of money arming themselves to the teeth so that they can kill each other, talk about insanity. These so called believers in God believe that it is OK to kill for country and religion.
The major objective of the Christian religion is to build a bigger mouse trap. The major objective of the Christian religion is to suck out as much money out of a duped population so that they can drive expensive cars and wear expensive clothes. God was forgotten and ignored by Christianity two thousand years.
Jesus once said that he came to earth to set it aflame, to turn brother, sister, mother and father against one another and he succeeded. Why did Jesus succeed? Jesus knew two thousand years ago what those who have not fallen for the insanity know now.
Man in his petty vain pompousness uses the word of Jesus to usurp the word of God. To break the Ten Commandment is to refuse God’s leadership. Killing because God killed places man in God’s position and it is not working.
Those boycotting Scientology should be boycotting them selves as well. From a proud liberal. END THE WAR IN IRAQ.
February 21, 2008 7:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 07:44
I sometimes think that there is a special corner in hell reserved for the false prophets that took what what L. Ron Hubbard created as an intellectual exercise into a big business that promises tranquility based on positive Biofeedback. I often felt that Hubbard was deliberatly sequestered when he tried to recant, and disestablish Scientology. Then there is is matchup between the IRS and the Church of Scientology; a matchup between two legalist bullies; the result is still a draw.
February 21, 2008 7:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 07:41
First let me state that I am a non-practicing Jew who doesn't know much about Scientology but from the little I have read I don't like it much.
That being said I believe that anything that states it is a church should be granted church status. To quote (mis-quote) Stranger in a Strange Land, "Anything can be a church, An ice skating rink can be a church as long as some group states that ice skating is essential or desirable for the glory of G-D. If you can sing to his glory, you can also skate to it"
As far as church status goes, I don't believe that it should be treated by the government differently than any other business, i.e. tax exempt.
Any money that they take in should be taxed at the corporate rate.
February 21, 2008 7:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 07:19
Is one faith more or less legitimate than another? Does the endorsement of a celebrity lend credibility? When does a cult become a legitimate religious organization? Who knows?....
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/01/16/mormon-scientologists-for-jehovah-on-the-7th-day/
February 21, 2008 7:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 07:11
For a more authoritative review than the Washington Post Jesus Section, please see: http://www.CultNews.com
February 21, 2008 6:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 06:50
It really does not matter what Scientology is. People are fee to choose whatever they want to believe and spend their time and money on. Just don't force your views on anyone else. To some people there is little difference between god and the tooth fairy, but to others they have defined much of the world around their belief in whatever deity or creator concept they choose. For anyone who believes in a so-called mainstream religion - your views are just as valid and as preposterous as any others. The one thing there is not enough of is acceptance. Live and let live.
February 21, 2008 6:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 06:41
Scientology is one of the more hilarious scams ever perpetrated. Truly, an "American" religion that would make Phineas T. Barnum proud.
February 21, 2008 3:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 03:56
"Since IP law is passed by the government, the First Amendment is necessarily implicated for those who want to criticize Scientology."
They'll stick a lawyer on yer butt, but other than annoyance and/or bankruptcy it gets them nothing. Criticizing them is an example of "fair use."
February 21, 2008 2:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 02:48
Why should libertarians protest the protesters of Scientology? Surely they have every right to picket and speak out about a cult -- any cult: Catholic, Muslim, whatever. That, too, is a constitutionally guaranteed right. Ask the victims of Roman Catholic priests, or the victims of televangelizing swindlers. As for the issue with the IRS, that is easily solved by ending all tax exemptions for religious institutions. As long as cults are accorded exemptions problems of definition will arise, and government, through the legislative function, will have to starting defining what is and is not religion and worship and the free exercise thereof. (I suppose, however, that human sacrifice will still be proscuted as murder). If there is no religious exceptionalism, then there will be no entanglement. So tax 'em all, and put an end to this absurd discussion.
February 21, 2008 1:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 01:11
I had a back injury from a freak accident in India. The doctors wanted me to layoff lifting weights for the rest of my life. I was all prepared to live with the back pain for the rest of my life.
My back was miraculously cured in a Church in Ohio after I had become a Christian. Now, in my mind I did not expect my back to be cured. Scientologists talk about brainpower. I had givenup and accepted my condition but I was given a second chance not by reading books or following some mind changing ritual. There is a power that is not within us.
February 21, 2008 1:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 01:02
I think Scientology is getting more attention than it deserves. I was begening to get interested in it because I came to know it exists. And I saw Mr Cruise talk about it with enthusiastically.
I am a Christian (converted from a very different religion). I am convinced that for me trying to look some where else for truth and quick fixes is a waste of my limited time on earth.
If the Scientologist believe they have found enlightenment so be it. If they wanna know about Christainity seek Jesus.
February 21, 2008 12:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 00:33
Scientology=evil
February 21, 2008 12:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 00:27
Hi, BRAMBLETON, as to how religion scapegoats Gays and nonbelievers for social ills, let me start with Gays, whose organized local efforts late last century to have the right to legal civil unions resulted in a nationwide coalition of conservative Christians, who cited the Bible as their authority in seeking to ban such unions, not just with laws, but with judgment-proof state constitutional amendments, on the grounds that encouraging Gay behavior through rights constituted "a clear threat to the social fabric of our society". Former US Rep Rick Santorum (R-PA), sponsor of a federal amendment to prevent the Supreme Court from overturning such state amendments, stood before the Congress with posters of graphs showing that since civil unions were legalized in Sweden late last century, the rate of marriage had declined and unwed motherhood rates had increased. The truth is that trend began decades prior to legal civil unions and furthermore the decline was less sharp since civil unions. No honest person denies those trends followed Swedish laws banning discrimination against women. (Santorum also said such an amendment would make us seem less decadent to Al Qaeda and would likely deter another 9/11!!)
As for nonbelievers, their successful efforts to see enforced the First Amendment, which US Courts have ruled prohibits the practice, nationwide until recently, of public schools teaching our children to believe in the Bible and quizzing them about their beliefs, has subsequently caused nonbelievers to be blamed by Christian ministers, in the press and from the pulpit, for school shootings, teen drug abuse, disrespect for law and authority, the declining rate of marriage, crime in general, and yes, terrorism. Specific illustrations of such scapegoating are abundant in the MSM in the last ten years but don't want to exploit your attention by belaboring my point. I appreciate your asking.
February 21, 2008 12:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 00:25
For those of us who believe freedom of religion is a great idea, I think the most effective and satisfying defense against religions that are perceived by the individual as "dangerous" is ridicule.
February 21, 2008 12:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 00:23
Scientology is ruthless. It sues its critics to silence them. It destroyed the Cult Awareness Network. They designate critics as "fair game" and then try to make their lives miserable. They are horrible, horrible people.
February 21, 2008 12:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 21, 2008 00:23
I lived in a house once owned by a Scientologist, and got his "church" (cult) mail. It is NOT a church. It's a scam. His story was similar to the one above by the father of a victim: Reading Dainetics on acid, he got convinced that he had found eternal truth, or something. He wound up signing away everything he would ever own for (no kidding) a billion years.
When I met him, he was a real case, looking right though you, unable to fully function any more. He lived essentially in a closet, spending all waking hours as a slave to whatever they wanted.
The literature keeps promising that one will achieve extradinary powers, including having "cause" over matter, travelling the Universe at will. But, de