Comments (40)

When my daughter was four, she briefly attended a Christian pre-school, even though I was an agnostic bordering on realizing my Paganism at the time. It seemed like a good idea at first because my mom worked there and could pick her up if I was running late at work or school (I was a university student). I figured that since it was pre-school, the most theology she would get was coloring pictures of Noah and Moses. She was already familiar with different creation myths and different gods, because I had read myths to her and simply told her they were how different groups of people believeed the world came to be, without presenting any of them as true or false. IMO, all myths are true, while none are factually accurate.

Then came the day that I picked her up from pre-school and asked her the usual question "What did you do today?" and she burst into tears. Once I got her calmed down, I found out that during their Bible story that day, the teacher had told them that Jesus was the only real God and that giving your heart to Jesus was the only way to get to Heaven, and she had raised her hand and told her teacher "But my mommy says that all gods are real.", and the teacher had responded with "Then your mommy is going to Hell." That was the day I pulled her out of that school and began taking her to class with me. When I was asked why I was taking her out of pre-school, I told her teacher that I did not appreciate having my child told that her mother was going to hell. I was told that I should get saved then.

She's now 17 and an agnostic with a Buddhist twist.

Wonderful article! As Jesus said, "A little child shall lead us."

Wonderful article! As Jesus said, "A little child shall lead us."

Wonderful article! As Jesus said, "A little child shall lead us."

To the person who suggested that Jack shouldn't be pondering these questions at such a tender age- I would like to kindly remind you that the simple fact that you or your offspring had an inability or unwillingness at his age to grapple with great questions is of complete insignificance. If I had a child his age who was not able to be engaged in a discussion of this kind, I would be worried.

Jack is on the right path-- he sees religion within a very important context called HISTORY that modern day religious zealots seem to disregard.

It seems for now that Jack will choose logic over storytelling--he may become someone who is not content to consider that there is a personal god behind a large velvet curtain who plays with a tiny model of the world like the great and powerful Oz.

Whatever the end result of his journey, he is right because he has actively engaged his mind to think of things such as "hell" as preposterous human constructs to "trick" people into good behavior. He is learning to separate the world into what he's been told and what experience has taught.

The Bible was written by a bunch of ignorant, hate filled, misogynist men who were afraid of the dark. There is no morality in the Bible unless you pick and choose select passages to stupefy youth. If you were to read select parts of Mein Kampf, Hitler might sound like a swell guy. All religion is based on fear, guilt, ignorance and hatred. The moment a child is taught a god exists, that child has learned to doubt theirselves. Humanity should get up off its knees and stop begging god to make the world a better place. Humanity has to take responsibility for its actions before the world will take a turn for the better. War, rumors of war and mock war dominate humanities activities because god gave instructions for war and slavery. There is no god, there never was a god and there never will be a god except in feeble minds. I know there is no god cause the Bible tells me so. As Christianity declines here in the land of milk and honey it expands in third world countries where science is seriously lacking. As that growth takes place on thin ice, the waters of critical thought here are warming up because of the advances of science; archeology, geology, physics and astronomy, and of course paleontology keeps digging up those transitional fossils that religions wish to ignore. Jack is going to be OK. As long as more children start asking questions of ignorant adults, the world can be diverted off the fatal path it is on. When enough kids think like Jack, school shootings will be a footnote in history. War will no longer be a solution to social problems. I suspect Jack will be one of the people to help humanity reintegrate with the natural environment rather than act like we are god in control of the world.

I have to say takes real guts for a kid to start speaking thier mind about God. I say get kids thinking these BIG things early, it will help them coop better with the same topics later in life.

May as well start with a clean slate. Sometimes iconoclasm leaves debris, though. :)

"If "God" really was the all-seeing, Omnipotnet being, then why put, as the very first Commandment, "thou shall put no other Gods before me". Shouldn't he/she/it already know that?"

Because the omnipotent god of the bible is a jealous pantheist. It believes in other gods and envies them because it's so insecure. It therefore feels the need to warn (and even threaten) us not to heed their calls.

Personally, I have taken this wise advice but have gone one god further ...

Heh. Kids are great, sometimes.

Still, on this:

"My 8yr old daughter was subjected to a comment by an 11 yr old relative that was so puzzling, in the midst of what otherwise might have been an innocent game: "We're Catholic and you're not, so I don't know if our God will forgive you". We're the non-Catholic family members. The very faithful Catholic family member explained the comment away as something the schools must be teaching, but in no way saw it as an early foundation of intolerance."

I don't know what they're teaching, these days, but I remember pretty well they had my nephew parroting some pretty darn-near-inflammatory stuff about other religions in the guise of a Thanksgiving prayer, seemed almost custom-designed to produce family arguments or alienation: I was pretty quick on the uptake when I was that age, and that was a pretty new one on me.

I think the increasing politicization of religion is certainly bound to have some difficult consequences as the kids raised to (even more of) it come of age. As I say a lot, ...if you start turning it into a conflict, it never ends. If we see a major Catholic-Protestant divide over the spoils of more religious intrusion into government, well, that's no surprise.

Hopefully a lot of these kids will see some of this for what it is.

For me, 'Hell and Santa Claus' existed in the same sort of sphere, that 'other, nonsensical set of rules' called 'Religion,' (And myself and the Gods in another, in my case: actually, it wasn't too hard to pick up on a certain 'bait and switch' association of ...Hell and Santa Claus: promises and fear and the act of believing all associated together.) To mix this in with religious intolerance and xenophobia is something I saw spill out in unpleasant ways all too often, as it was.

'Atoms of God' can maybe do a bit better. Maybe when this boy gets past an eight-year-old's understanding of science, he'll be in a good position to nurture his own true human spirit, all else failing.

I think when we adults feel the need to try and spin such insights into notions of authority and shame and fear, we spiritually-impoverish our own future, particularly when these authorities and orthodoxies prove flawed.

Thank you, 4th watch. We also stress the Golden Rule to our children.

A long time ago, I dated a girl in High School who's family was Baptist. They also treated me with the ultimate respect, since I was a very studious and moralistic person, despite being an athiest.

Certainly, we can get along without ridiculing each other and condemning each other to ignorance or hell.

Mr Mark: My wife told me that my daughter and her friend were talking about God. My daughter said, "...and I don't think God exists". My daughter's friend, who we like, said, "You can't say that, you're going to hell". My wife said she went on and on how she was going to hell. My daughter was upset that she said that.

It's a crazy world to me.

I've had my daughter read the Children's Bible and other childrens books on different religions. We've gone to different ceremonies in religious settings.

And my nice neighbor's daughter who knows less about religion than my daughter, so easily condemns her to hell.

Mr. Mark
I hear you; kids can really rough each other up. I have three- college, high school, middle school. They are Christians, not angels. As parents we stress the golden rule, its useless if the parents themselves don’t practice it.
Around a year ago there was an incident at the high school…A male student-atheist- who clearly enjoyed the notoriety his non belief brought him got into serious trouble. He threatened to bring a pistol on campus and kill certain bullys for their antics . After his suspension upon returning to school he was treated in the worst way, to the point he could not board the school bus.
We began to give him rides to school right along with our own kids. My daughter took some serious grief from her high school peers for this, she lost some friends but gained solid ground also. The atheist kid is pretty regular at our mission church, showed up on his own, he still believes God is a fake. We are probably the only Christian band whose bass man is atheist.

I have an 11-year-old in fifth grade in a public school. She is one of maybe two other kids who will admit that they are non-believers. She is frequently told by her schoolmates that she's going to hell. But they also believe that they'll go to hell if they don't believe in Jesus. She also says that the kids are constantly talking about religion on the playground, and that she sometimes feels left out as she doesn't feel she can join in (of course, that may be her perspective. What is "constantly talking about religion" in the eyes of an 11-year-old?)

Strangely, the fear-mongering and threats of hell don't keep the religious kids from lying or bullying other kids on the playground.

This past week, my daughter came home with news from her religious friends that Barack Obama is a Muslim who will take prayer out of the school and who wants to outlaw the Pledge of Allegiance. When my daughter disputed that, she was told, "well, that's what my parents told me, and they're Christians and they don't lie."

I'd guess that most 11-year-olds in a religious upbringing think a lot more like the kids at my daughter's school than they do Jack.

Jack sounds like a thoughtful and intelligent young man - good chance he'll grow up to be an atheist.

Sorry for my spelling! I meant charade, not sharade.

The only person who makes any sense of this is Jesus Christ, who said that 'the Kingdom of Heaven is within all of us'. It's his way a saying that no human has the right to tell others' what, who, or where Heaven is. It is up to each one of us as individuals to decide what our Heaven is.

The very first Commandment gives the whole sharade away as being invented by humans. If "God" really was the all-seeing, Omnipotnet being, then why put, as the very first Commandment, "thou shall put no other Gods before me". Shouldn't he/she/it already know that?

Jack is on to something important that many miss as they grow up. Waiting till he's in his late 20's to consider the relevance of theological concepts is not necessary. The theological benefits to society are undisputable. The real shame is when bad people hi-jack good things and use them for their own selfish purposes as well as a tool to supress dissention and to control others as they annoint themselves over others.

The real shame in all this is that in time as Jack grows up, he will face these brutal realities of adulthood, hate, anger and be subjected to those same abuses by groups with in and with out religian that will seek to bring pressure to bear upon him to join their side or suffer the consequences.

Benedict, the current Catholic Pope struggles with this very issue and has been attacked by the very Catholic groups under the umbrella of the Church for their ways. One in Virginia going so far as to proclaim Benedict a heretic.

The next time each of you critics and nay sayers go out to a social event...don't dare touch the salad dip and chips...your partaking in the Christianized form of the Eucharist...as extended as originally intended as a part of the celebration of life and remembrance when many gather together to share in aspects of the joy that is life and to talk.

While Catholocism and organized religian has shortened this into part of the mass in remembrance, it is wide spread. So, those of you critical of Christinaity and God...stay away from the food table...or prepare to face ridicule as hypocrits for enjoying the fruits of Hebrew-Christian history while condeming the very activity that brings you together to criticize it.

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/passover.html

"The Passover seder service includes the dipping of the karpas (vegetable) dipped in salt water and the bitter herbs (maror) dipped in a paste of fruit, nuts, wine and spices (charoset)."

Just remember all you heathens...stay away from the condiments and dip table at all those parties lest you risk being called out for participating in the ritual that took place at the last supper.

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>))))2)0)0)8))))) "NO-SHARIA!"
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PEACE, PAZ, SALAAM, SHOLOM:........______________
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VOTE:
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THANK YOU!

I think that when people think about religion, they don't ask, "What is the truth?" but "How can I justify the faith I was born into?" Since only one faith (at most) can be entirely right, most of those defending their faith are defending the indefensible and giving up on the chance to look for the truth. But when you die, if there is an after, it will be the truth which will matter and not your feckless defense of your faith.

Actually I do think that all major faiths, whether Christianity or Islam or Hinduism, have a fair amount of truth in them. Buddhism has more than others because it is less obsessed with defending a tradition. The Dalai Lama said that if there is a real conflict between Buddhism and Science, Buddhism will have to yield. But THOSE truths which the different faiths have are compatible, because two truths cannot be incompatible. The details of course are different.

The trouble is that people get all excited about the DETAILS in which different faiths differ, and they assume that the details of their own faith are the correct ones and other faiths are partly or wholly mistaken, or even tools of the devil. This attitude leads to conflict, even to killings.

Seek the truth with courage and be tolerant of the views of others. That is the way to go. I like the open attitude of the boy and his mother. The truth will make you free, but you do have to seek it.

I think that when people think about religion, they don't ask, "What is the truth?" but "How can I justify the faith I was born into?" Since only one faith (at most) can be entirely right, most of those defending their faith are defending the indefensible and giving up on the chance to look for the truth. But when you die, if there is an after, it will be the truth which will matter and not your feckless defense of your faith.

Actually I do think that all major faiths, whether Christianity or Islam or Hinduism, have a fair amount of truth in them. Buddhism has more than others because it is less obsessed with defending a tradition. The Dalai Lama said that if there is a real conflict between Buddhism and Science, Buddhism will have to yield. But THOSE truths which the different faiths have are compatible, because two truths cannot be incompatible. The details of course are different.

The trouble is that people get all excited about the DETAILS in which different faiths differ, and they assume that the details of their own faith are the correct ones and other faiths are partly or wholly mistaken, or even tools of the devil. This attitude leads to conflict, even to killings.

Seek the truth with courage and be tolerant of the views of others. That is the way to go. I like the open attitude of the boy and his mother. The truth will make you free, but you do have to seek it.

Humans do not create gods. More precisely, humans create ideas of gods.

gOD created or not created has nothing to do with the human mind. That is absurd.

Also, the super scientists I know - astro physicists etc. - who do not have an anti religious bug up their butts believe in scientific gOD. Quantum theory unpredictability - Hiesenberg's uncertainty principle as an example -being the basis for the belief.

Religion stunting the human mind is often the case. As with all things in this world religion can stunt or expand.

I give you terminal cancer as an example. Certainly religion has proven to be as ugly as astro cytoma for example. Yet astro cytoma has been elevating.

It can just as easily be claimed that opium is the religion of the masses. n'est-ce pas?

Suggested reading. Lothar Schafer: In Search of Divine Reality Science as a Source of Inspiration

It increasingly is becoming apparent that our quantum world is in fact mind. That would not be the mind of anyone we know.

Want to debate scientific gOD? Contact Rudolph Schild at Harvard. You won't find him at the divinity school. He's a scientist. Spends his spare time looking at the edge of the universe. Make you're argument with this guy that there is no gOD. Just be armed with more than a copy of Hitchens' "God Is Not Great". lol

Good parenting created an inquisitive kid. I'm impressed.

However, inquisitiveness and curiosity will be sufficiently banished by teachers who don't like the "talk back kind of kid".

What touched me most was his concisely rendered objection of the idea of 'nothingness' as is common in Eastern religions but without any sort of arrogance or intolerance, which is too common among Western religions.

I suppose the poor kid will be turned into another soulless, intolerant adult, or will be ostracized for being too weird. God protect him, from the societal propaganda that so infects American religious dialogue.

Frau Hoffmann,

if Quran is to be deflawed, tell me where Deaf is, and tell me why i am in Turkey. tell me the flaws of the families who have added earth into the earth of Europe, Asia Minor, Africa and Middle East.

tell me where Santa Claus is, tell me where is He'll. tell me where Theo is, tell me from where comes a Ray? tell me where she'll is. do you know any one who works and hopes?

i must learn a different English. this vocabulary is religious. my classmate at high school was son of Embassy in Australia who had brought a rugby ball and boomerang.

tell me what is Huka Gathering, in the Dance of New Landers on the Island in the Sea. and tell this to Mike Huckabee please, for the family bee, urgent with love and company.

Smart kid. Future atheist.

and... God is named Jehovah, he slaughtered the Canaanites, wants Huckabee elected, is sending gays to hell, does not want funding for stem cell research, distrusts the theory of evolution... what else?

You guys in the "God Gang" are a reasonable but inadequate substitute for the Comics Pages. Lots of laughs, but little substance.

What are his opinions on Hannah Montana?

They are probably as relevant as his preadolescent maunderings about got. But more fun!

David R. is right on the money. To take it a step further:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people". - Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right

Jason:
Please be diligent with your children. My 8yr old daughter was subjected to a comment by an 11 yr old relative that was so puzzling, in the midst of what otherwise might have been an innocent game: "We're Catholic and you're not, so I don't know if our God will forgive you". We're the non-Catholic family members. The very faithful Catholic family member explained the comment away as something the schools must be teaching, but in no way saw it as an early foundation of intolerance. Not the angry, obvious intolerance. The day to day kind that may come from being a bit too comfortable with one's faith and traditions, I think.

Here are interesting correlations for Jack to ponder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoj8kwvfJZc

Best of Luck to Jack. You can do it, Jack.

Question everything - particularly those things that require a suspension of reason while at the same time require you to part with money.

Poor little fellow.

Jason:
Please be diligent with your children. My 8yr old daughter was subjected to a comment by an 11 yr old relative that was so puzzling, in the midst of what otherwise might have been an innocent game: "We're Catholic and you're not, so I don't know if our God will forgive you". We're the non-Catholic family members. The very faithful Catholic family member explained the comment away as something the schools must be teaching, but in no way saw it as an early foundation of intolerance. Not the angry, obvious intolerance. The day to day kind that may come from being a bit too comfortable with one's faith and traditions, I think.

I am glad to hear of an eleven year old boy pondering deep thoughts such as about God and His existence. We all would be served well if we follow Jack's footsteps. It never ceases to amaze me how people can go through life not believing that God exists. He does exist and He is real and those believing in Jesus Christ the Son of God will most assuredly see Him in Heaven when their physical body is dead. David R., you are right that humans have created gods, but there is only one true God and He is the one who created us and the entire universe. True belief is Jesus Christ is not a religion, it is a personal relationship with the Creator. Very correct, the "religion stunts the human mind", but a personal relationship with Christ does not.

Humans created gods. And continue to do so all the time. I think I might be Pastafarian (FSM), because that's what my father was. (No, not really. Raised Catholic.)

The complexity and profundity of life can be contemplated without reliance on imaginary sky deities. Philosophy does not need religion, and faith (in life) does not require supernatural faeries who do magic tricks and read minds, and exist forever and ever and ever hanging in space, watching everything, knowing all.

Religion stunts the human mind.

As speaking I've been taught Christian principle
and doctrinal theology what this young eleven
year old boy Jack say's is principle of believe
too many, in Christianity when he mention the atoms.
“We’re inside God because we’re atoms inside of the universe all this is fine but, faith is matter
of believe. And Religious,Faith in this country
is matter chosen acceptance or denial.

May this word be blesing
to somebody.

Taskfor6@aol.com
Date:02-13-08
Time:8:12pm EST

Joe, do you remember being 11 years old and pondering the existence of God and the beginning of the Universe?

I do. In fact, my thoughts were less influenced by others at that age. They were my own untainted, pure thoughts. I still remember attending Bible school and being asked whether I thought there was a Hell. I responded, "No, because God wouldn't create something so horrible."

As a parent, I frequently am in awe at the simple wisdom and truths presented by children. Do I know more about how to get along in life now in my 40s? Sure. But do I really have more answers than at age 11 regarding the mystery of God and the Universe? No.

An eleven year old boy is way, way too young to be pondering thoughts of a god of some kind. He needs to wait till he is in his late twenties and has some real world experience behind him before coming to grips with this concept.

Presenting religious ideas to one so young is merely presenting unproven propaganda, which, at his tender age and level of life lived, is not fair to him at all. Better he wait and make an informed decision (if that's even possible) when he is much more mature.

Jack is an incredibly perceptive and thinking eleven-year old . His comments are probably as good as anyone else's with regard to God.Whoever God is , or may be, He/she/it is ineffable and will never be seen or known.

Jack is an incredibly perceptive and thinking eleven-year old . His comments are probably as good as anyone else's with regard to God.Whoever God is , or may be, He/she/it is ineffable and will never be seen or known.

My girlfriend and I are both Catholics and are both comfortable with our faith. We are talking about getting married and raising a family, which is the point of my comment.

We both want to raise our children Catholic, teach them the traditions of our faith and why we do what we do, as they get older. I have a nephew, and she has 2 nephews and a niece, and we give them all religious presents, along with secular gifts. We are respectful of our brothers' and sisters' wishes in giving presents.

It is important for us to teach our children about our faith, but to also teach them about other faith traditions, and tolerance for those other traditions. Ultimately, we hope that as our children grow, they will learn more about our faith and grow into it.

I think it is important for parents to talk to children about questions of faith, existence and life.