Comments (18)

Suckers! You lot will believe anything. They laughed at and belittled you behind your backs while counting your votes and undermining their own promises to the 'values voters'. Stay home.

The wonderful thing about Bush's political religiosity is that you know that neither he nor his minions really believe a word of it (let alone put it into action).

The Bushie "faith-based initiatives" were only a stunt to keep evangelical Christians in tow. The Bushies never intended to do anything significant that way. The Bushies running that program were often derisive of the Christian faithful. Our founders were well aware of the danger, both to government and to Faith, if the two were merged. Think of the Middle Ages in Europe and the Taliban today.

The Bushie "faith-based initiatives" were only a stunt to keep evangelical Christians in tow. The Bushies never intended to do anything significant that way. The Bushies running that program were often derisive of the Christian faithful. Our founders were well aware of the danger, both to government and to Faith, if the two were merged. Think of the Middle Ages in Europe and the Taliban today.

I'm with JUST LOOKING. Herbal High School, Peyote Prep School, anything of that sort. You know, those Indians are probably sitting out there on the reservations laughing at us.

Indians have been fighting illegal immigration since 1492. They should get generous federal grants for their long service.

I would love to go to a tribal Herb school.

The faith-based system can easily be seen as simple old-style "machine politics". This is a popular style of politics in old cities like Chicago and Albany, NY with big Irish communities and an Irish political culture. The formula is find a way to pay voters and political volunteers to support you through government-supplied jobs, grants, gifts, etc. But the payment is laundered through grant agencies and government human resource agencies that provide political cover. It is a bribe that does not look like a bribe because it promotes motherhood, ethical behavior, feeding the poor, the dominant religion of the culture, child daycare, and all that is good and unassailable in America. It is a great way to buy votes and volunteers for political causes while also doing self-promotion to the Republican constituency.

It might also do some good along the way but the strict requirement that those receiving funds not be audited (very convenient for them) means we will never know if this is the case.

As history moves along there is a tendency to improve the truth through discovery. Origins of Faith based iniatives can be found on the Internet now through some well exposed papers written for master's degrees and doctorates. Some information and parties can be traced to Oral Roberts University now, a school under the radar for misapropriation of funds of late.

I look at these faith based iniatives as the carrots offered for political incursions into the church. Getting through the disertation I have read, I see just another form of corporate welfare offered to tax free institutions in exchange for votes. Really UnAmerican for any institution to compete in private sector with public funding, an ideal which reduces quality and developes unholy dependence on Uncle Sam.

I wonder if a Wicca run school for the blind would fly under such programs ? Or a Buddhist school for higher enlightment ? How about Herb school for Tribal Medicine men ? With over 4000 registered tax free religious entities in the United States there is room for abuse and discrimination of individual charities. I have worked with Catholic Charities, they don't believe in free rides.

As far as capitalism goes, I think that there is a good argument to postulate that "public funds utilized for private capitalization causes negative growth". Otherwise, someone threw the vendors out of the Temple along time ago and tithing is the first real form of institutional savings for a rainy day if you were to ask me.

I gained alot of hope last weekend through a conference of real global leaders. In attendence were Bill Gates, Bono and Tony Blair. The noble designs of the World Bank and WTO can be seen applied to Bill Clinton's plan for handling AIDs in Africa through drug manufacturing in India. Or President Carter's work domestically and internationally with Habitat for Humanities Organization. Numerous organizations with deep pockets through equity are jumping onboard such as the Hilton Family.

Mainly though, I am hopeful that Tony Blair and his Industry backers can make a difference for peace in the Middle East. Even Bin Laden's son seems to recognize that stability through peace benefits the greatest number of people in the world. Too bad that Hussein faked MAD but we knew that. What we did not know is the tendency by some having weapons to pull triggers with itchy trigger fingers. A small town Police Chief told me that "It's fear that pulls the trigger son". Attrition makes me say that it is only a matter of time until the modern societies will rearm themselves with WMDs, Worldly Manifestations of Detente'.

However in contrary to Henry Kissinger's advice don't look for certain global geo-political bodies to chew up what George Bush and the neocons bit off anytime soon. In the meanwhile are we wasting taxpayer's dollars with private sector funding, I dunno, seems to be a young Congressman that can tell you about a particular school traditionally funded by a couple of pork barrel prophets of Congress friendly to the Military/Industrial Complex. I suppose some no longer employed as Public Servants should have kept their mouths shut about reducing military expenditures although I will say that Detente' is very cost effective.

As a non-believer alarmed at the rise of "faith based" programs in my secular government, I have to admit I'm pleased that Bush's attention deficit disorder let them whither on the vine.

Hillman's post (2:47pm) reminded me of George Orwell's account, in _Down and Out in Paris and London_, of his time in a shelter operated by the Salvation Army in England during the thirties. Sounds like not much has changed.

BushCo. used the faith-based people for what they were, tools. Anyone who is willing to place faith before reason has already shown themselves as fools. Their blind faith in this administration only goes to prove it!

Shrubs faith-based initiative was nothing more than a smoke-screen. It is, and was, a cynical ideology dreamed up by "turd blossom" and shrub with the singular aim of polarizing the electorate and dividing the country. It was spouted on the airwaves and repudiated and snickered at in the smoke filled rooms under the White House.

While daily (if not hourly) regurgitating the pablum of "No child left behind", "family values", "defense of marriage" and institutionalized homophobia they proceeded eviscerate wide ranging social programs. The poor became poorer, the middle class became poorer, millions entered the roles of the uninsured, seniors became poorer and many must now choose between medications to keep them healthy and food. The rich, on the other hand, became obscenely rich. Corporations prospered at the expense of the population. Pharmaceutical companies and health-care organizations reaped huge profits while the average person saw their prices sky-rocket and the health of the nation decline. All this in the name of "family values. And, all the while, the Religious Right, sat back and sucked it all up.

The religious right, with their faith based initiatives, sat back and congratulated and patted themselves on the back. They relished their role in trying to turn back a womans right to choice in the name of "every life is dear and sacred'. At the same time they stayed silent while shrub killed hundreds of thousansds of innocent civilians in an unjust war. I guess some lives are more sacred and deserving of life than others. The GOP and religious right gloated at their attempts to change the constitution to outlaw same sex marriage while simultaneously sitting back while New Orleans drowned. Baptist minister Mike Huckabee defended himself of being soft on crime by crowing about how many people his state executed during his term. They have watched while this administration justified torture in the name of safety against everything this country stands for.

We, as a country, have let the administration and a narrow ultra-conservative group of cronies rape what this country. We have, like Nero, fiddled while Rome burned. It's time to make a change.

Faith-based entities were simply a way to shovel kickbacks to right-wing group leaders that supported Bush and company. Wonder how much of that wealth "trickled down" to the faithful? Based on the economic data we see now - not much. I see that "faithful" received little help with their economic woes from their leaders and organizations only schooling to indoctrinate a continuation of their message. Isn't a central tenet of the Christian faith, to help one another whether in personal or monetary trouble. These leaders sure like to trot out the "individualism" aspect of life when it comes to sharing the wealth. What a horrible mis-characterization and example of the teachings of Christ. Greed & corruption are not the teaching of Jesus

Chagasman,

I presume your opposition to faith-based programs paid for by tax dollars or tax credits is based on your understanding of the First Amendment. However, the Supreme Court's reading of the First Amendment has never resulted in barring of all assistance to religious institutions. Among other requirements, the Court has cited a "secular purpose" as being necessary for such assistance. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/02.html#2

I admit that this type of assistance raises many concerns and should probably be avoided as a rule. However, there is no doubt that many religious establishments effectively serve the poor, needy, and homeless within our communities. The immediate and ongoing response of many churches to Katrina's victims is a good example. If religious establishments can effectively provide social services with a "secular purpose" and without religious restriction, should they be ineligible for any public assistance? I don't think so.

Regarding your comment about Bush's lack of compassion, I couldn't agree more.

I'm uncomfortable with government funding of religious charities. I have two brothers that have been homeless and/or addicted to drugs and alcohol. Both tell me that their experiences in religious shelters was terrible. In particular, anything run by the Salvation Army. They were constantly taunted for not being Christian. Several times they were told they must participate in Christian practices before they would be given food or lodging.

Several of my gay friends that have fallen on hard times in years past tell me that they were taunted and badgered by the Salvation Army staff and volunteers when it became known that they were gay.

That's an obscene practice if you are a private organization. But it's your right as a private organization, even if it's actually as unChristlike as you can get.

But once you start taking my tax dollars I fully expect you to treat everyone, regardless of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, etc.

Being completely jaded by the incompetence of bushco, I have to state that anyone that even slightly believed a word that oozed from bush's mouth about compassion is either a fool or requires psychological help. This man, a child of power and fortune, has never known the feelings of want or need. From this it is no wonder that "compassionate conservatism" was nothing more than a show for those that believed and those that wished to believe.

How much has Government grown since 2000? You finally see what happens when you put people who "hate" Government, in charge of it.

Faith-based programs paid for by tax dollars, or faith-based programs funded by tax credits are unconstitutional and illegal. Government has no business giving tax money to religious groups regardless of the supposed purposes of the money or the group.

As for Bush's compassion, it quickly faded when it came to choosing between compassion for people or compassion for his buddies in the business world, didn't it? Tax breaks for oil companies drowning in excess profits is really compassionate, isn't it?