All Comments (18)

" It is probably the result of decades of confused leadership at the local level; a failure of the grass roots Church to communicate what it believes."

Oh, it's at the local church level? Not the church itself? (I suppose you can back that up with data?)
All the churches with significant declines suffer from 'confused leadership'? Does that not at least say something about the organization / institution that installed the confused leaders?

GaryD,

Having or not having a religion has little to do with selfishness or its restraint. The common factor underlying all our arguments over belief is human nature. Embracing some creed doesn't stop people from being pustules. For every Stalinist Russia there's a 98% Christian facist Germany. And even Stalin's Russia rested on an underground bed of Orthodoxy.

And with what do you intend to replace religion?

For my part a world without Christianity is a world without restraint of selfishness. You want to get a glimpse of a world utterly absent Christianity. Read Solzhenitsyn's 'Gulag Archipelago'. Look at the Former Soviet Union under Stalin or Mao's China.

Pam/rational thinker,
You make broad statements like "more crime like rape and murder are caused by the religious," "war is always in the name of religion", and " the non-religous alway know more about the bible and history than so called believers", that you can not support with data. What makes you hate believers and religion in general so much? I'm always astounded at how angry many of the athiests on this board are.

Also, I think you have a bit of a blind spot when considering that beleivers would actually think about what they beleive. In fact, I would say most,if not all true beleivers have given it a great deal of thought. This survey supports that . It says that 44% of adults have changed denominations from that of their parents, yet only 4% are athiest/agnostic and 84% belong to an organized religion. While it is true that they unaffiliated group is growing in this secular society, they are still a small minority.

my bad I dont know why it posted 3xs, sorry.

The sooner all religion is gone the better. Religion is nothing more than mind control for the masses, words put together by mortal men that aimed to control and abuse everything. Science will contine on to and prove more and more wrong about every religion that exist.

It seems almost comical to me that people today will actually believe things written thousands of years ago by men that believed the earth was flat. The list is never ending of the damage that religion has done. I believe something amazing exist beyond us, and religion is a pathetic exuse to explain something unexplainable. Why is it that more crime is like rape and murder is commited by the religious, why is that wars are ALWAYS in the name of religion, why is it that the non-religious knows more about history and the bible than the socalled believers??? The answer is because they are brainwashed from birth, raised to believe that if you don't beleive you'll burn in hell forever, but God is all love.

My greatest advice to all those who think they believe is simple, pick up a bible and start reading, from beginning to end. By the time you are done you will not believe in it anymore. Then study your history and find out how this book was put together, and how many hundreds of times it has changed. I am not saying that God does not exist, I'm saying all religion is mythology, all of it.

The sooner all religion is gone the better. Religion is nothing more than mind control for the masses, words put together by mortal men that aimed to control and abuse everything. Science will contine on to and prove more and more wrong about every religion that exist.

It seems almost comical to me that people today will actually believe things written thousands of years ago by men that believed the earth was flat. The list is never ending of the damage that religion has done. I believe something amazing exist beyond us, and religion is a pathetic exuse to explain something unexplainable. Why is it that more crime is like rape and murder is commited by the religious, why is that wars are ALWAYS in the name of religion, why is it that the non-religious knows more about history and the bible than the socalled believers??? The answer is because they are brainwashed from birth, raised to believe that if you don't beleive you'll burn in hell forever, but God is all love.

My greatest advice to all those who think they believe is simple, pick up a bible and start reading, from beginning to end. By the time you are done you will not believe in it anymore. Then study your history and find out how this book was put together, and how many hundreds of times it has changed. I am not saying that God does not exist, I'm saying all religion is mythology, all of it.

I mean, one thing I can't complain about as regards our modern world, is we're learning in detail just how cheap... and how expensive... talk can be.

Some folks are trying to preserve some old presumptive monopoly on some power of words and beliefs: others try and dress up the same old stuff in radical and energetic and confrontational terms,

...but it's still the same old thing.

To my observation, outfits like Opus Dei would rather send us back to serfdom, or some modern equivalent, in order to maintain that illusion of 'religion' having to do with their 'organization.' Or their words.

They want to call themselves 'Father,' they ought to start acting like it.

The kids have in fact grown.

""Oh," she replied; "you like yours disorganized." Or, in other words, not at all."

And you wonder why thinking that way isn't winning you the masses on matters of soul. It's just that kind of flippant attitude toward the notion spirituality can exist outside your particular institution that *turns people right off* and obscures the distinction between 'faith' and experience and 'believing and speaking really hard.'

And, Norrie:

"The "original religious affiliation" was never chosen by the child - it was assigned by the parents.
"Affiliation is a voluntary act of an understanding and competent person, which, in relation to religion, a child is neither.
"The later religion, which Pew calls a "switch", is in most cases the person's first true religious affiliation, not a change from an earlier one."

Good point, Norrie.

I do presume that a lot of people raised in a tradition they don't believe tend to give it a fair try before looking elsewhere, but, really.

That very Catholic definition of 'Religion' as, basically, 'Our religion, and way of believing in belief itself, or nothing,'

...doesn't even necessarily *register* as 'spiritual,' except by internal definitions. I sort of look back with some amusement at growing up thinking 'Religion is this nonsensical behavior we have to do: more BS the adults make you claim to believe in spite of all evidence,' ..or else...

...And all the while having more than my share of spiritual experiences, thinking what others called 'Religion' was another thing entirely.

Took getting a fair bit older to recognize the Old Gods as *such,* (funny, but They didn't seem to be in any hurry to say, 'This is your religion, and I'm *it,* either.)

Probably why 'Religion' is such a bogeyman to so many non-religious, too. Cause that's how it's *taught* by this lot.

Dude can't even *see* what else it can be, never mind circumscribe it.

He thinks it *is* an organization, without bended knees to which, people must be 'lost.'

And that's why he has his laments.

You wrote: I remember a gentleman at a dinner party who remarked to his hostess that he was not keen on "organized religion". "Oh," she replied; "you like yours disorganized." Or, in other words, not at all. The Pew research, or perhaps it was the Times commentary, observed that unaffiliated did not mean they were less religious, only that their religion was "nothing in particular." It's hard to see that as not meaning less religious.

I respectively beg to differ...

Being a part of an organised religious faith, such as Catholicism, can be very stultifying to a religious truthseeker. I was raised Catholic, and I know whereof I speak.

It was scary to leave the confines of the Catholic faith of my youth because I was filled with fear of God, hell, and damnation which I learned in that faith. That was over 40 years ago, and to this day, I count my defection from Catholicism one of the most courageous and positive moves I ever made. I never looked back...

I now practice what I call the "Jesusonian religion of the Spirit," wherein I rely on the leadings of God-within to inform my life and my decisions. There is no fat rule book, just a reliance on the good, true and beautiful, as well as the Great Commandment of Jesus - Love God with a whole heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. (And I would add "love your neighbor as God loves him/her.")

With these simple rules, I have discovered a new world of personal spiritual experience which is not dependent on any intermediary - priest, nun, bishop or pope - to tell me what is right and what is wrong. The closer I get to God, the less I sin - it's as simple as that.

The Kingdom really IS within, and "at hand."

I live my faith 24/7, and feel no need to darken the doors of a church and hear second-hand religion or a religion of fear of God. I do not celebrate the blood and death of Jesus, but his matchless life and teachings. I hold no awe for any religion of authority, just as was Jesus' experience when incarnated on this planet. He had no use for them, and neither do I. He established the Kingdom of God in the hearts of mankind...we are the "living stones" upon which that church is built, and this church is one of religious freedom and originality of expression.

The only thing missing from my approach is the organizing social aspect of religion, which is a good thing - in which believers can bolster and support one another in their search for Truth, value and meaning.

A church that I would join is one in which there are no creedal requirements, but instead, the freedom of discovering for oneself, in oneself, and of oneself the value of the God-driven life. It is only through personal experience with God that one can really learn to appreciate and own a spirit-led life, and that experience is something that others of the "unchurched" are happy to share, when given the opportunity.

Thanks for THIS opportunity!

Sincerely,

MaryJo

GARYD:

I would read the data as saying that more and more people are finding out that, no matter where they look, truth in religion is nowhere to be found.

I think that some of the other big winners not mention in the article are the so called "DIY religions" like Wiccan or Matrixism. I don't know if "Do It Yourself" is a necessarily apt discription because these religions do have a predifined structure. They do however allow a bit more freedom for individual creativity that larger more well established religions. Surely this freedom of choice or customization is appealling to some but probably equally appealing is the fact that choosing a smaller religion like choosing a smaller brand name is also a way of expressesing one relative individuality.

As for switching between established religious faiths this probably points to their philosophical fragileness amid general scientific literacy of today. Religions like Matrixism that are up to date and consistent with modern science should do well in this atmosphere.

Hopefully, this evolution toward "unaffiliated" will continue. What people in this world need is more spirituality and less religion.

Religious leaders will likely gnash their teeth and try to determine who did what wrong to lose the sheep in their flock. But Raphael (above) is correct: the bronze-age fairy tales of the Bible can no longer be taken seriously in light of what we now know about our universe.

Expect the percentage of people moving to "unaffiliated" to grow at a steady pace, until someday, we will leave all this religious nonsense behind us once and for all and delve ever more deeply into science, knowledge and spirituality.

The first question Msgr. Bohlin and others need to answer is: "Exactly why more than a quarter of adult Americans have left the faith of their childhood; and, worse yet, the droves who have abandoned organized religion."

In the 12th Century Jesus ordered Francis of Assisi to "Repair His Church" - that Church was already so broken that Jesus had to make a direct request to have it repaired.

What we are seeing now is that the people are finally giving up on the "repair jobs" half heartedly attempted by a Church Administration more interested in power, a la Opus Dei, than in conversion, a la John Bosco.

An Admnistration who may be just a few steps away from being brought before the World Court charged with being the key accessory to the greatest holocaust mad had endured - World War II. For more details on this visit http://www.mgr.org/fatima.html

A long hard look into a self-revealing mirror is what the Church Administration needs to take before it is too late. Yes, the Gates of Hell will not orevail against the Church, but, some conditions do apply.... http://www.mgr.org/GatesOfHell.html

We thank you for your attention.

I agree with GARYD

In all things some will see the glass half empty. Imagine, if you will, a people finally recognizing that we aren't as different as we are the same.

The evidence is that rather than losing their religion people are trying to find it.

The Pew statistics and report are misleading.

The "original religious affiliation" was never chosen by the child - it was assigned by the parents.

Affiliation is a voluntary act of an understanding and competent person, which, in relation to religion, a child is neither.

The later religion, which Pew calls a "switch", is in most cases the person's first true religious affiliation, not a change from an earlier one.

Here's another way to interpet it: religions feed people assertions that are now so overtly in conflict with discovery-based human reality. People go searching to see if all of the religions are full of crap. How this questioning of things that make no sense can be seen as a weakness is beyond my reality-based mind to understand.