All Comments (253)

Susan Jacoby is terrifying. We do not read her or the Washington Post because we know very well what David Rockefeller said to the editors of the Washington Post and other major newspapers. He thanked them for not reporting on their NWO plans. Jacoby is completely insane. We read Jack Bernstein, Benjamin Freedman, Harold Wallace Rosenthal for the truth.
We know very well that 9/11 was primarily a Jewish, Mossad, and neo-con false flag operation. We will not tolerate Jacoby's brutal assault on the minds of Americans. This will not stand. She is very psychotic. The only reason she is allowed to speak is that Jews own all the media in the U.S. Everyone knows this. The proof is self-evident. Jacoby is incapable of saying one word of truth. The vaccines were tainted. This has been admitted by everyone. The preservative used did, in fact, skyrocket the number of cases of autism. The preservative is no longer used. Jacoby is a lying psychopath. I bet she denies the existence of chemtrails. I am so angry. I am going to stop this Jewish stranglehold on America. I bet Jacoby wants to find out who I am so that she can have me murdered. The Campus Watch, Megaphone, ADL, and thousands of Jewish organizations are responsible for the dumbing down of America. Do not ever take a course from a Jew. Documentary: The Israeli Lobby: The nfluence of AIPAC on U.S.

Arminius:

I'm half a Scot;
That's my lot.
The other half Brit
(Truth compels me to admit).
Surely I did not plan
To be as I am
A Scot, Aye! and half a man.
But far worse yet
(I moan, I fret),
A Scot with no a clan.

From the East Coast South
To the Highlands North and West,
Teeth into the North Atlantic tempests --
Aberdeenshire!
Home of my one mother's forefathers.

Athena,
I agree, this question seems to have been left up here far too long.

Come on moderators...next question please.

terra

An update on our War on Terror and Aggression:

or how are we spending USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror)

First, A Partial Body Count:

1) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

2) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4000 US troops and 80,381-87,792 Iraqi civilians http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

3) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

4) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

5) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

6) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

7) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!!

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel, a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

5. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

6. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

7. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

8. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

9.Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

10. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

11. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

12. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

13. Although a bit dated, the terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends.

14. And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

Bored now. Time for a new question.

TJ by telling us when and where it is appropriate for us to talk of our faith...

Yes, Thomas Jefferson intentionally "deflawed" his bible by removing all the superstition and historical revisionism from it. First, he found the flaws. Then, he fixed the foundations. What a guy! You can buy one on Amazon.com!

Jihadist, I don't know if you're reading this thread, but the U.S.'s response to 9/11 was, in a word, evil. I had foolishly hoped at the time that 9/11 would catalyze a new era of internationalism and mended relations. I thought the message was clear, that the world is now small enough to realize that chickens always come home to roost, that the rule of law must be uniform and global, and that the U.S. must be the beacon of freedom and enlightenment for the world that it has always imagined itself to be, and which it sometimes has been.

Instead, the Bush administration bullied its way into war with Iraq (which I still don't understand), isolated its allies, repudiated diplomacy, and otherwise cultivated an unprecedented level of global hatred against the U.S.

Jihadist the notion that anything very much different is going on in the Middle East now than has always gone on in that blood soaked abattoir shows an inability or unwillingness to either read or comprehend history.

My oh my!!!!!!

Can't leave bigots alone and they road rage in the threads:)

Let's have some last fun before the next topic comes along.

An itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny Jihadist surge of silliness. The last one and out of this thread. Unlike some, I do know when to get out.

....and Concerned the Christian Now Liberated in all his disguises, forms and manifestations too here! Which Concerned the Christian Now Liberated are we seeing here now?

And some quotes not quoted from the famous and infamous:

"Islam is perfect. Convert to Islam."

"Atheism is a burger without all the trimmings"

"Crossanized Christianity are attempts to correct the so-called flaws in Christianity by majority vote agreement of Jesus Seminarians"

"Catholics of Reality are dastardly fools who can't and won't bring up their gripes to the church hierachy"

"Paganism and pagans predates all monotheistic religions and will survive along with or outlive them all"

Ahhh.....the Hyperventilating Concerned the Christian Now Liberated:

- don't want to bring up his problems to his church and Pope eh?

- never raised his Catholic church issues in On Faith with the vim and the verve he expended on Pagans, Buddhism, Islam etc.

- Come to think of it. He never spoke much on Hinduism, the mother of all beliefs too.

Ahh... the Hyperventilating Concerned the Christion Now Liberated makes it all right even for the "reasonable" and "rational" Chris Everett to forgive him of his bigotry and name calling and labelling just because Chris Everett thinks all religions are evil and Islam the most evil of them all.

Weep not for Jihadist!!! The Patriot missiles lobbed by the Concerned One to save her, to bring salvation to her, to bring Enlightenment to her, missed her. Again. Sign........

So.......... Burn the Qur'an. Edit the Qur'an. Ban the Qur'an." !!!!!!!

So, the Great "Deflawing" of Christianity started about 200 years ago but there are three gods, four books, and many epistles to correct?

My, my. Why is that? Has Enlightenment not reach every nook and crevices of North America and Europe?

Are not many Christians happy and contented with their beliefs as is?

Are not all Americans literate? Are not all Americans wired to ICT and TVs and radios?

Need help from Liberty University and Bob Jones University?

Did Chris Everett not tell me once that even Thomas Jefferson has his own version of the Bible?

How goes the revisions and editions of the Bibles?

How many versions of the Bible?

Can't change yourself and blame the Bibles and Qur'ans eh?

Can't deal with believers and want to ban and edit their Holy Books, eh?

And....................

We Muslims outside the United States breathlessly awaits how Concerned the Christian Now Liberated and his ilks march on with the Crossanization of Christianity in America and develops more and more Catholics of Reality.

We Muslims outside the United States breathlessly awaits to see how Concerned the Christian Now Liberated liberates his own educated and intelligent and well-informed fellow citizens on the Crossanization of Americans.

What to do eh, pussycat?
Too many beliefs.
Too little time.
Too many contented and fulfilled believers.

--------------------------------------------------

GaryD

No personal offence to you. But some of my posts are parodies of those by Concerned the Christian Now Liberated just to point out how ridiculous they can be.

--------------------------------------------------

Chris Everett,

You are a very nice fellow. But I do doubt you know what is really going on and why with Concerned the Christian Now Liberated.

Whatever you feel about 9/11, I will not excuse the bombings and killings of innocent civilians as collateral damage, destroying their homes and lives in Afghanistan and Iraq and yet, fail to get Osama.

I wonder why that is.

I wonder why it is so very difficult to get Osama dead or alive in Iraq with all the "surge" there.

Well, I've had enough of this thread now.

Thanks and regards
"J"

Amen.

Chris Everett,

it is a pleasure to read a contribution of sense, reason, understanding and tolerance at the same time.

Just imagine the impact of the general insight that the "emperor has no clothes on", and that all the huge amount of heckling, proselytizing, arguing, fighting, killing, name calling is based on nothing but mass superstition, in different historical shades of fantasy.

Nature itself is so abundant in incredible miracles that I don't understand the funny "philosophy" (aka religion) of so many people to demand the simple and stupid "miracle" that the magnificent nature, of which so much is still left to discover and understand, breaks its own laws to satisfy simple minds. What a concept of "miracle", simply ridiculous, conceited and overbearing.

Only a few years ago the very computer with which these people spread their nonsense would have been enough of a "miracle" to prove the existence of god, any god, you choose him, we sell him.

Fortunately, there are many more than 5% of Americans who declare themselves non-believers or at least agnostics. And it is the more educated section of the population, even if, alas, not the majority of voters. The Bushs and the Huckabees may be one of the reasons for evolution to decide that mankind was one of those many extinct branches, like for instance the dinosaurs and thousands of other species.

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Nov-07 Oct-07 YTD 2007 Nov-06 Jan - Nov 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 1,919 1,889 1,872 2,093 1,800
SAUDI ARABIA 1,530 1,370 1,432 1,460 1,418
MEXICO 1,484 1,322 1,426 1,459 1,608
VENEZUELA 1,227 1,221 1,141 1,088 1,152
NIGERIA 1,215 1,184 1,067 917 1,040
IRAQ 508 490 495 573 566
ANGOLA 408 342 502 505 504
COLOMBIA 197 164 139 42 148
ALGERIA 184 213 452 253 357
ECUADOR 154 222 198 246 275
KUWAIT 154 150 178 253 180

But there is not really any such word as "deflaw" is there? If so, then what does it mean? "to perfect?"

How are you going to perfect a religion? People just believe what they're gonna believe, and do what they're gonna do. How is anyone going to impose "perfection" on all of this?

And what has "obfuscating" got to do with anything? It is kind of dumb word, when used in the context of this thread, and it just makes the guy using it look sillier and sillier. I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, just giving my observations; I mean, this is a serious subject, but could the commentary here get any sillier?

Garyd writes: "What we are clamoring about is the fact that the minority militant atheists who make up maybe 5% of the people in the country if that are trying to make us second class citizens in our own country."

And how, exactly, are they attempting to make you second class citizens?

Terra,

Rock on. And consider, the politician you are more afraid of? He's a terrorist too, acting in the same name and for the same reasons.

Religion.

I for one appreciate CCNL's consistent focus on these posts. As Daniel Dennett famously said, "Every time you read a word you make another copy of it in your brain." And as Daniel Dennett even MORE famously went on to say, "Every time you read a word you make another copy of it in your brain."

CCNL is reasonable in saying that until the Koran is deflawed noone is safe. Personally, I would argue that elimination of Islam as anything other than a CULTURAL tradition is necessary for it to be deflawed, but of course this is true of ALL religions, simply due to the fact that RELIGION IS THE FLAW.

CCNL's focus on Islam instead of some other religion is understandable, too. I have lived in both Washington and New York - I saw the Pentagon burning and I saw the smoldering rubble of the World Trade Center, and I have family members who are alive now simply because of rescheduled meetings. This is not to say that the U.S. has not behaved atrociously in the world (and continues to do so under our imbecile president and his corporate cronies), but SUPERSTITION is among the big issues of our time, and if the world as a whole cannot embrace liberal interpretations of its particular brands of superstition, at least to the point of recognizing our common humanity first, then violence will continue. It is this liberalization that CCNL refers to as deflawing, and it is Islam that, among the dominant religions, is most in need of it.

I am an enemy of all religion. The poetry, beauty and insight on the human condition that can be found in religion exists simply because until recently, religion was the context in which human understanding existed. But this context is a polluted one of absurd fictions and internal contradictions. Although its origins are understandable, its perpetuation is inexcusable. Even religious apologists and obscurantists like some of those above implicitly admit this to some degree every time they distance themselves from the fundamentalists - they interpret the holy texts to mean something humanistic as opposed to meaning what they say. That's a step that has a component in the right direction. But why not just say, "Wow, these guys did pretty well considering their time and place - some of it is actually useful! Lot's of it has to go, though. Like the parts about slaughtering outsiders, threating your children with eternal torture, obsessing on your neighbors' private lives,..." That's deflawing.

But who claims to know what god's wishes are, if there is a god? I'm sure it's not a gay marriage ban.

Don't you think it might behoove you to see what changes he wishes to make first?

The first Law of Christianity is to love your God with all your heart with all your soul and all your mind and the second to love your neighbor as yourself. I doubt he plans to add either to the constitution.

And Keep in mind I am not a big fan of Huckabee but his Christianity does not inform my opinion at all.

The most you will see is likely a gay marriage ban that probably permits civil unions which the overwhelming majority of Christians have no real problems with.

Daniel...Lion...
I agree.

I learned at a early age that life is forever giving lessons...life is not a promise, but a possibility.

Going from one room to another I lost sight in one eye;a detached retna. After surgery some sight came back, but then I have had many other surgeries for other eye problems (same eye, and the other), and need more...and can no longer drive or simply pick up a book and read.

My life changed from one second to the next.

Many years ago I went to pick up my step mother, who was also my best friend, from work...being told she was dead; an anerism.

I have seen the deaths of too many people...there is no guarentee for any of us...no expiration date stamped on our butts...each day is a gift and the best way we can leave a mark while we are here is to show commpassion, strength and love.

terrorism is not what fills me with fear, it never has. I am more afraid of those who will hate me for how I see my gods, or that I believe in gay rights, or am pro choice. I have more fear over a politician that wants to change the constitution to fit his view of god.

terra

After 9/11, I was afraid of terrorism, like a lot of people, possibly. I was afraid to fly, which made my life difficult, since I have to fly alot on my job.

Then on Oct 12, 2003, a Sunday, I tripped on the step in front of my house. Even though it seemed like a gentle fall, I was seriously injured; my quadricep tendon was torn in two, and I had surgery the next day. (That is the same day that the Staten Island Ferry crashed into the docks, and killed a bunch of people in NY; I remember the date, Oct 13, 2003, because of my injury the day before; google it, if you want).

Afterwards, I had a stiff brace on my left leg for 3 months, making walking, even with crutches very difficult, and I could not drive. I could not go anywhere, even to work for 3 months; all I could do was sit in a chair and watch tv. I prayed and prayed to be be healed, and I would never complain again, and I would go out into the world and do what ever I needed to do, without fear, if I could only be well enough to walk outside of my house.

When I was better, I realized that the unlikely threat of terrorism was less threatening than the normal undertows of life, which swirl around us all the time, in everything that we do, in our daily lives.

And maybe some people seek assurance and safety by projecting their very real fears onto specific people or groups of people, whom they can work against. But this kind of thinking provides a false assurance; we are always under threat of destruction, every day, from many directions, too many examples, even to think of. What must we do? There is nothing we can do, but have courage, and hope for the best, and work for the best.

There is a phrase that I think should be tattooed on the foreheads of every person who lives upon the earth, even on CCNL's forehead: "fragile, handle with care."

Garyd,
As far as Christians not wanting a theocracy?

MIKE HUCKABEE: I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution. But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And that's what we need to do, to amend the Constitution so it's in God standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family.

So what is that if not a Christian wanting to create a theocracy?

terra

Jihadist you are the one that doesn't get it. We Christians aren't interested in a theocracy. It looks to much like Iran. What we are clamoring about is the fact that the minority militant atheists who make up maybe 5% of the people in the country if that are trying to make us second class citizens in our own country. Much like Hamas has done with Fatah and it's followers but with much less reason.

Terra Gazelle

Thanks for the interesting post.

“The Rapture...Fundamentalists believe that the return of the Jews to Israel, and the restoration of Jewish control of the Temple Mount, is a precondition for the Rapture, the Apocalypse, and the second coming of Jesus Christ...

And who is in power now? Bush and his Born Again neo Cons...I wonder how far that ignorant brainless wonder would go to help his Apocalypse happen. Did God tell him to?”

Too little is being said about the subject of this thread (Jewish Identity) and how it affects the critical issue of our time that threatens to start WW III (according to our ignorant brainless wonder). Even my favorite panelist refuses to address this issue. What do you think about it J? I know; you are a supporter of the Road Map. What do you think CT? I know; you are a fan of the ignorant brainless wonder. How about the rest of you bloggers? I know; it’s more fun to fight about religion, but come on...be serious for a change.

The Road Map to Nowhere...

The good, reasonable, moderates of the region are all pulling for the Quartet’s Road Map to Peace to succeed, and so am I. But I know that it will not because it offers the Palestinians less than half a loaf; actually it’s more like 22% of a loaf. It accepts the pre-1967 war, post-1948 war boundaries, which give Israel 78% of Palestine to the Palestinians’ 22%.

The Balfour Declaration was the mistake of the 20th century. The deal brokered by the wealthy Zionist lobbyist Baron Rothschild with British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour and blessed by Winston Churchill was the root of all evil. Yes, the Holocaust was a terrible tragedy. But if the League of Nations and USA wanted to protect the two hundred thousand Jewish refugees of WW II, then we should have allowed them to immigrate to our lands. We had no right to force them on the Palestinians.

But all that is water over the dam. The question is what to do now. The Zionists think that time is on their side. If they grab and hold more and more territory and build a wall around it, the world will eventually accept it as theirs. They intend to eventually hold all of pre-1947 Palestine, and push the Palestinians into Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. After all, the Arabs were granted the vast majority of the British Palestine Mandate in the form of Transjordan. They should be willing to make a home for the Palestinian refugees.

I think that nothing could be further from the truth. With Israel importing 99% of its oil (mostly from Russia) and the USA importing most of its oil from Islam, the oil supply diminishing, the price of oil at $100 per barrel and rising, and the US national debt at $10 Trillion and rising; time is on the side of the Palestinians and the Russia-China-North Korea-Iran-Iraq-Jordan-GCC-Syria-Lebanon-Egypt potential “axis of evil”. This is no time to be starting WW III with Islam.

"mono-minded, mono-lingual, mono-cultural, mono-religious perhaps"

Well. Are we monotheists? Is Truth monolithic or are there many truths?

Jihadist should swallow the pablum she generously shares "on faith". Her angst is apparent on every post and it tells a story and makes a sad statement. She should address her "greater struggle". If she is true to her names (Jihadist, Jewlia, Jihadistein) -she should shed her "islamic blinders" and take an honest look at herself.

Who is she? What does she believe? And greater still- what does she seek?

Oops, my apologies for the triple commentary. The WPO servers were sucking up the good words quite fast this evening :))

Moody, Moody, Moody,

You can debate the meaning of the various passages of the koran until your "blue in the face". The bottom lines are the actions carried out by Muslims based on the instructions in these passages. The violent actions on a 24/7 basis are conclusive proof of what Islam teaches and what these passages really say.

To wit:

The assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

These actions plus the flaws in the founder of Islam, one hallucinating, warmongering, womanizing, illiterate, long-dead Arab and his plagiarizing scribes makes Islam a sham and shallow religion.

Garyd:

Quran tells what we are here to do.
Hadith(actions and saying of Prophet)explains us how to do it. As said in the Quran follow your Prophets(PBUH) teachings like how to pray, clean, eat, live, protect and respect each other rights etc.

Xymerian Monk:

Appreciated!

Jihadist:

AOA, I'm not wasting time, I'm earning sawab!

Athena:

Don't try to jumble up dates, time, events. AND DON'T SKIP THROUGH MY POST.

Garyd:

Yes! at all levels of preserved records, it is TRUE " The Holy Qur'an".
I understand your point, there are many false hadiths, but Muslims all over world are very concious and careful about it and try to follow only authentic ones. There is a fool proof and very prudent way that exist.

Ahh, the Obfuscating Jihadist and those that weep for her!!!

After 224 comments, it still comes down to that famous quote,

Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe anywhere!!!!!!!

And one must chuckle at The Obfuscating One's comment: " I take them (Muslims) more seriously in what they say and do and in countering them with the full weight of my formal and spiritual knowledge on Islam. "

She meant to say: " I suffer from being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam. I know that the warmongering Mohammed and his scribes plagiarized the works of the ancients but I fear for my life if I dared try to correct these significant errors".

Fear not Oh Obfuscating One, the Great "Deflawing" of Islam is in progress so one of these days (or years) you will be able to shout, "Free at Last, Free at Last."

The Great "Deflawing" of Christianity started about 200 years ago but there are three gods, four books, and many epistles to correct.

With Islam, there is only one book and with the "debunking" of the Gabriel/Mo connection, things should go a lot faster.

Ahh, the Obfuscating Jihadist and those that weep for her!!!

After 224 comments, it still comes down to that famous quote,

Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe anywhere!!!!!!!

And one must chuckle at The Obfuscating One's comment: " I take them (Muslims) more seriously in what they say and do and in countering them with the full weight of my formal and spiritual knowledge on Islam. "

She meant to say: " I suffer from being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam. I know that the warmongering Mohammed and his scribes plagiarized the works of the ancients but I fear for my life if I dared try to correct these significant errors".

Fear not Oh Obfuscating One, the Great "Deflawing" of Islam is in progress so one of these days (or years) you will be able to shout, "Free at Last, Free at Last."

The Great "Deflawing" of Christianity started about 200 years ago but there are three gods, four books, and many epistles to correct.

With Islam, there is only one book and with the "debunking" of the Gabriel/Mo connection, things should go a lot faster.

Ahh, the Obfuscating Jihadist and those that weep for her!!!

After 224 comments, it still comes down to that famous quote,

Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe anywhere!!!!!!!

And one must chuckle at The Obfuscating One's comment: " I take them (Muslims) more seriously in what they say and do and in countering them with the full weight of my formal and spiritual knowledge on Islam. "

She meant to say: " I suffer from being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam. I know that the warmongering Mohammed and his scribes plagiarized the works of the ancients but I fear for my life if I dared try to correct these significant errors".

Fear not Oh Obfuscating One, the Great "Deflawing" of Islam is in progress so one of these days (or years) you will be able to shout, "Free at Last, Free at Last."

The Great "Deflawing" of Christianity started about 200 years ago but there are three gods, four books, and many epistles to correct.

With Islam there is only one book and with the "debunking" of the Gabriel/Mo connection, things should go a lot faster.

Hey does anyone know what happened with Jocob Jovez or whatever his name was? I miss his ramblings it kind of gave me a reason to decipher his long posts, I used to decipher those while at work...kind of like a Jumbo Word Search!!

Peace Be Unto You All and May God Shine His Mercy Upon Us.

-MONK-

ps where is all the old school posters that i had grown to love like E-Favorite and Daniel and some of the others...hope they didn't suddenly develop a life and forget about us!!

Arminius,

Dude that humbled attitude is exactly what the wise allpy to their words. That is why of all Mondern Religious Leaders I love the Dali Llama! He never tries to force his veiw he never tries to call for war, but his followerers are quite awesome at defending themselves!! I mean they held off the superior Chinese Army when they attacked Tibet! You my friend are a wise voice and a growing tree on this posts.

Jihadist,

I have been reading older posts, and I prretty much agree with almost everything you say. If I didn't think you were such an amazing person I wouldn't even bother speaking or taking your side! I know you alone could hold off the increasingly violent attitude from Concerned, but like you said it is fun to have a little bit of indulgence at his expense!!

Peace Be Unto You All and May God Shine His Mercy Upon Us.

-MONK-

Monk, my web friend,
I am NOT wise. I am dumber than a stump and older than dirt. I merely (try to) accept all of humanity as God's children. Admittedly, putting Confused the 'Christian' now Lobotomized stretches my abilities. It is pointless to reply to him - he, like any other fundamentalist of whatever stripe, sees all in terms of black and white. He will not engage in true discussion. Might as well converse with a brick wall - at least it does not spew crap back at you.

With much respect,

Arminius

Xymerian Monk:)

Hello.

If you are Muslim or Jew or Pagans or atheists or Mormons, insults are quite often leveled at you. I notice that Christians of other denominations hurl a lot of insults at Catholics and the Catholic church. Apart from those of other faiths and no faiths.

I am only into having fun with the rabid ones like my favourite pussycat - Concerned the Christian Now Liberated when I am a wee bored. I just love seeing him or her or the Concerned collective going berserk. Small times cheap thrills for me really.

Concerned has his Muslim counterparts. I take them more seriously in what they say and do and in countering them with the full weight of my formal and spiritual knowledge on Islam. It is pointless, no, for me to discuss on Christianity with Christians. I'm an outsider after all. Or for me to go into the finer points of Islam with non-Muslims who have absolutely no say and sway in how it develop and move forward.

Rest assured I don't and never measure all Americans, Christians or atheists by him, her or the Concerned collective.

And rest assured Concerned the Christian Now Liberated will never let up. He must be a retired person with all the time on his hand to be in On Faith 24/7:)

Now I really got to get off.

Thanks and regards
"J"

Concerned,

Get over it bro!! No one cares anymore. While some want to scream it's the Muslims fault, some like Jihadist and Moddy and even a few Christians realize....What happens in the Middle East Stays In the Middle East!! Oh unless Bush want's to give $90 Billion to Saudi Arabis to oppose Iran!!! Seriously who freakin cares about the war between Shi'ite and Sunni...I for one just want OUR Country to fix OUR problems! It is not Americas place to run around the world and force other cultures to Assimilate to the good 'ol American Way.

No amount of moanin about your views is going to change what other people do. Jihadist surprisingly says the best peice of asvice that anyone could give you:

"So now we know you can't stand anything on Islam or anyone Muslim. Need serious help from professionals off On Faith or like-minded irrationals in On Faith threads? "

The only, and I MEAN ONLY person you can change is yourself...not me not Moody, not Jihadist, not Arminus, not Susan...just YOUSELF. If you are completley happy with where you are in life then rejoice man!! Sit back with a cup of tea and let the rest of us have civil conversations (i.e A Conversation about Faith!!! The whole point of these boards) but alas my adice falls upon deaf ears, because I know what you will say:

Monk, Monk, Monk it is like I have always said blah, blah, blah HATE ISLAM, blah, blah, blah. I will never stop anyone...anyone who holds true and sticks by what they believe in, and neither should you...THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY!!!

Hey Jihadist how ya doin, how come you never reply to me? If you want like Ms. Jacoby, I will insult you...You smell like cabbage! (joking) but seriously I do wish more people were like you and Arminius, you both are very wise (yes Arminius you are wise man you never hate and always have something of value to add!!) and I think if more people would read your posts that we could have some balance in this thread, but alas it is up to Concerned to Fuel the Fire of hate and to spark anger from people.

Peace Be Unto You All and May God Shine His Mercy Upon Us.

-MONK-

ps Concerned I am sorry that I get so angry at you, but you are carrying a negative stereotype too far man. You can not just lump everything Muslim and anything that says Islam on it into this "It is out to destroy OUR way of Life" mentality...America will detroy itself with or with out the Muslims!!

Unbelievable!!!! Concerned the Christian Now Liberated and analogous ilk still do not get it.

One more time for their benefit: It is all about them finding fault and flaws in the founders and foundations of Christianity themselves as Crossanized Christians and Jesus Seminarians. They know them. They can't get why mainstream Christians won't agree with them.

They thereby directly support the results, i.e. evangelical Christians on social and political terror as espoused by rabid evangelical warmongerers raising mental terror and torture of Armageddon in the Middle East, and possible theocracy in America, and the pseudo-democracy in Israel and the "Wannabee" rulers of an American-Isreali realm in the Middle East.

Bring on the rabid evangelicals! And other Crossanized Christians and Catholics of Reality!

J-Lol

Unbelievable!!!! The Obfuscating Jihadist and analogous ilk still do not get it. One more time for their benefit: It is all about the flaws in the founders and foundations of Islam. They know them. They ignore them. They thereby directly support the results, i.e. Islamic terror as supported by the warmongering, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran and the pseudo Sunni theocracy of Saudi Arabia and its "Wannabee" rulers of an Islamic world.

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated:)

Which one is it now here? Anyway.....

Pussycat! Why are you lambasting others as collateral damage? Did I not tell you this is a wee battle between just us?

Can't help dragging everyone into the ring and shooting everyone? Missing me again and again? I'm still standing. Darn!

Now, now, read up more books rather than just those by Karen Armstrong on Islam and Muslims.

Read up more books by Christians on Christianity rather than those by the Jesus Seminarians only.
Reinhold Niehbuhr is good for starters if you have not already.

Now, now, let me see.

You can't stand the ayatollahs and mullahs. You can't stand Al Qeada. You can't stand Eboo Patel the Muslim activist. You can't stand Sulayman Nyang the Muslim academic. You can't stand Pamela Taylor the Muslim progressive. You can't stand Salman Ahmad the Muslim Sufi. You can't stand Sherman Jackson the Muslim maintream fellow.

So now we know you can't stand anything on Islam or anyone Muslim. Need serious help from professionals off On Faith or like-minded irrationals in On Faith threads?

Be good pussycat. To your family members at least. Remember, labellings is no substitute for thought. Do put better posts on global politics, economics and security issues at least. They are all, er, not quite right and not worth for anyone to waste time reading or correcting. Remember, you are fighting with other sources of reliable information and Noam Choamsky too in the wider world.

Don't take it personally if I never read nor bother with your posts on "substantives" anymore. It's free choice, no?

Okay, pussycat, this thread is running out of its time and course.

"J-Lol" the Jihadistein, the Jewlia, the Jihadistein. Brrrrrrr.......

Moody:)

Why waste so much time and energy with On Faith threads' faux "experts" and "scholars" of Islam and Muslims?

You are obviously not American, like me. Never mind their pointing out our mistakes in English grammar and spellings. Chances are, unlike most of them, we speak and write several languages.

Don't worry about Concerned the Christian Now Liberated too much. He is mono-minded, mono-lingual, mono-cultural, mono-religious perhaps. Accept him as such. "Foreigness" can be frightening for some.

I have yet to see him persuade other mainstream Christians to what he call Crossanized Christianity. Which incidentally, is closer to Judaism and Islam on God and Jesus. The last posts I read of his addressed to Christians months ago, he's giving Jesus Seminarian take on salvation, ascention, baptism etc.

Perhaps you can suggest to him, the self-designated Catholic of Reality, to take these up with the Pope who is said will be visiting the US this year. After all, it is only the Pope and the Vatican who can implement dogmatic and theological changes in the Catholic church. He is infallible some said.

But, of course, it is an internal matter of church for him to deal with. We Muslims should keep out of their beliefs even if we know all the troubles within and among Christian denominations. We have our own internal debates too. No amount of the Concerned collective projecting, deflecting and redirecting to Islam and Muslims is going to have an impact in the wider Muslim world. It is beyond them and limited to On Faith threads.

But, have fun anyway, with Concerned the Christian Now Liberated and his ilk. Perhaps one day he'll share with you, the music and lyrics of "Grace" in Gregorian chant.

If I recall correctly, some Nazis do make a criteria for its flock (if we can call them that) to sing Christian songs in Gregorian chants as proof of their pure Germaness, loyalty to the Nazis and the Fatherland. Any wonder why the current Pope Benedict 16 was a former Nazi during his flawed and idealistic days as a youth? He is obviously a changed fellow now. Outwardly.

Only God knows what Pope Benedict 16 really thinks, is going on in his mind and the inner sanctums of his offices for world peace or world salvation of everyone not Catholic. Which may not lead to world peace if mishandled and "salvation" insisted upon everyone else instead of acceptance of and cooperation with adherents of other Christian denominations and faiths.

Who ever said some Americans purpotedly promoting freedom and democracy are not fascistic and ignorant? Look above and beyond the din of the bigots' rants and vents to find sane and sober voices among Americans. We can learn a lot from them.

Bye for this thread.

Peace be with you.

"J"

Xymerian Monk:

Did you really call me wise?!? That is something that I do not deserve. In reply, in the words of a song by the rock group Kansas: "And if I'm called a wise man, it surely means that I don't know..."

I do commend you on your pertinent, patient, and even sometimes profound posts. I look forward to more.

Thanks,

Arminius

Moody,

Many of the scientific "discoveries" in the Quran are reiterations of the Pagan Greek and Persian scientists that came before them. Unlike the Christians, the Moslems found a use for these ancient teachings and incorporated them into their religion. The Christians just burned anything that was in opposition to the Biblical ideas that the Earth was the center of the universe.

1- Big bang theory (in a nut shell).

The "cosmic egg" that "hatched" to form the Universe is from Sanskrit cosmology, among others.

2- Geo spherical Ostrich egg shaped earth (spherical which is the exact shape)

The Greek scientist Eratosthenes accurated measured the circumference of the Earth at least 2 centuries before Rome.

3- Cosmic dust (referred more perfectly as smoke).
4- How water seep into the earth and rain cycle through AIR.
5- Sweet and salt water of oceans and barrier between them.
6-Expanding sun, solar system and universe for given period of time
7- Earth, sun and stars revolving on their axis and path (orbits).

Aristarchus of Samos proposed the heliocentric model of the Solar System in the 3rd Century BC.

8- Sun and moon have different paths (orbits).
9- Sun and stars consuming there energy.
10- Reflected sun light of moon. In Arabic mooneer (moon) it self means reflected light.

While al-Kwarizmi was a genius, and made tables for the orbits of the planets, I don't think that his work was actually included in the Koran. Not to discount al-Kwarizmi - and the Islamic world's - contributions to astronomy.

I don't have time to debunk the rest. Suffice it to say that all of these "revelations" in the Koran were discoveries made by PAGAN scientists.

please check 4 truth

the truth iz true all the time or it simply is naught the truth.....manythings are mistakenly gicven the wrong name 4 themselves.. truth... must... be.. true... on all... occasions..., in any way manifested, under all conditions and every test in the present.. past truths and even future truths if correctly identifyed can be false in the present... we all must live in the present corperally.. test....you can build great things on small fundimental peieces of truth....pure truth may be relatively rare thus making its value great 4 those who know it and more importantly utilize it in reel and real life... a person... club, orginazation, a business, and institution, a government, areligion, a nation or a people canot and should not expect others to abide by rules they themselves violate... and the correct answer is not the suspension of all rules but to find ones that can actually be truelly and fairly followed by all... that may be the pathway to gains in civilazation and society through out the world it is true the Jewwish people will have 2 answer to God for thier actions and inactions and recieve the rewards or exiles imposed by God himself not 2 be determined by thier own opinions of how they are performing in the real world

If that were true Moody you wouldn't nned the Hadiths would You?

Monk, Monk, Monk,

Once again and again and again, the entire issue is summarized in that famous quote:

"Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe!!!"

Concerned after rereading your post i thank you, it is rather early and i needed a good laugh before going to bed. Your people skills are so lacking that even I a simple immigrant and merely 21 years of age can see through the anger at those that oppose your simple views. Like I have stated before you have no power what so ever to change anything, the only power you posses is the innate sense that you and only those that subscribe to the Only Axis of Evil: Intolerance seem to know...and that is how to repel any type of human regardless of belief, or culture, or religion, or sex, or race, etc..etc..You my friend are so very lonely that you have forgotten how to even approach someone rationally. Do you have kids...or grandchildren? If so what do you do when they come home for the holidays and don't believe as you do??

Moody,

Sorry for being a tad short with you but like I said no Man is Perfect save one, and even Jesus didn't write the NT others did, lol! So please don't think I am attacking you or Islam, if you live in America than i will fight whomever and whatever tries to deny you your rights to believe what you do. I know my grandpa would hate if I said I was talking to someone named Jihadist and also other Muslims defending the Quaran, but that is why his generation is not fixing the rift between us.

I never meant to offend you (if I did) I merley wanted to point out that not all feel like every Muslim is a terrorist! but if you behead anyone ( joking) all bets are off!!

Peace Be Unto You Moody

-MONK-

First Moody, I do not live in a Muslim country or I would gladly pay a tax if it could truly provide protection. I was merely making a point that in case Americans have forgotten that the Federal Government had no right to create or maintain the IRS after WW2. Concerned no matter what you post about Religious Leaders it still does not make up for the fact that I simply don't care about your personal beliefs and or 'knowledge' of ancient text.

Unlike Moody I realize that people use all sorts of information to try and justify the deeds they do. Moody, I personally don't have any problem with the Quaran, nor do I care how it accurately predicted all these sciences, the simple fact is it was another set of books just like the OT writings that tried to preserve the people's culture. Christ said nothing about slaying people, he said nothing about death to anyone except to those that He will judge. I am no where near wise enough to judge some one else, so I will leave that up to Him.

But i know we both agree that the Religious Leaders of Islam that teach hate and Intolerance are the type that even if they didn't misuse Islam they would find something else. It is the same with most Fundamentalist Christians that build Million Dollar houses and have private jets!

The simple fact is WE THE PEOPLE have to decide what we are either willing to do and what we can do to live the best life and serve as many people in need as we can! The people like Concerned will always stand on the street corners and denounce anything they are not comfortable with, but it is up to the rest of us to make sure that we turn away from the hate and show love.

We can all honestly agree that there are people that take every word of the Quaran as literal and there are those that do the same to the Bible, but each of us must take the good with the bad and try to apply the parts that help us the most and help others also. The more we try and believe every word of something as unfailing the greater the chance we run of risking closing our hearts and minds to the will of God.

Like I have stated many many times all religious text have flaws it is how we are made, with flaws and anything we touch shall have flaws, The original manuscripts that were given to the Jews and then Christians, and the Islam, probably differ from the manuscripts used today.

Sorry Moody, but honestly you must think of all the people (good and bad) that have come along and used the teachings of Religious Leaders for personal gain! I know hopefully that you don't run around saying convert, or pay the tax, or die. Just as I don't run around screaming, "Your Going to HELL" to everyone who doesn't share my beliefs!!

Peace Be Unto You All and May God Shine His Mercy Upon Us

-MONK-

PS Concerned how can you honestly believe that I haven't read your posts? You post them every question and every chance you get and the whole for My eyes only don't act like a child...and please don't insult my eyes again!

CORRECTION:

CCNL:

I'm still awaiting any single reply???
Angel Gabriel (A.S) revealed Quran to Muhammed(p.b.u.h) send by Allah.

And below few examples out of whole is the PROOF of its PERFECTION, AN EVIDENCE OF THE TRUE REVELATIONS...PROTECTED..UNCHANGED..VERIFIABLE BY ALL LOGICAL SCIENTIFIC APPROACH.

Mohammed(PBUH) had no reason to lie,
other wise there would have been more than 50000 scientific, mathematical, logical, mythical mistakes, obscene pornography INCEST in Quran AS WELL like in your almost 200 KEEP ON CHANGING versions of Bible.

BUT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE SCIENTIFIC MISTAKE OR CONTRADICTION.

BUT THERE ARE THINGS WHICH ARE NOT YET SCIENTIFICALLY DISCOVERED OR PROVED. SO IT IS NOT CORRECT EVALUATING SOME THING THAT SCIENCE DOES NOT APPROVE OR DISAPROVE ?

AND IF MOHAMMED (PBUH) SAYS ALL THAT SCIENCE WHICH WAS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE UNTIL RECENT TIMES
IS REVEALED TO HIM BY GABREIL (A.S.) WHERE HE EVEN DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ OR WRITE,

THEN

WEEE BELIEVE !!!! He had no reason to lie.

We humans know that there are countless entities which are yet to discover and beyond our present available knowledge OR OBSERVALBE BY OUR SIX SENSES.

Dave, Deb, BPC, CCNL, Kafir and all non believers you keep your commentary on all the time criticizing Islam BUT never answer a single direct question raised by any Muslim OR reply DIRECTLY on there comments to your posts.

IF YOU GUYS ARE REALLY HONEST, NOT WITH MUSLIMS BUT ATLEAST WITH YOUR OWN SELVES,

THEN DARE TO ANSWER BELOW:

You can close your eyes or do not accept for what ever reasons you have….twist or lie
BUT YOU CAN'T DENY THE TRUTH:
THAT EVERY RATIONAL INTELLIGENT LOGICAL KNOWLEDGE & SICENCE IS TESTIFYING FOR QURAN....AFTER EVERY NEXT DISCOVERY AND AWARENESS!

MODREN SCIENCE AND QURAN (ISLAMIC DIVINE BOOK)

Quran is not a book of science BUT a book of signs. It has more than 6000 verses out of which more than 1000 verses giving CLEAR signs about the modern scientific proven facts in recent couple of hundred years. (THIS BY ANY POSSIBLE MEANS CANNOT BE SAID BY US HUMANS 1400 YEARS BACK. THE ONLY LOGIC IS THAT IT’S FROM SOMEONE WHO IS COMMUNICATING TO A HUMAN AND KNOWS BETTER THAN HUMANS)

- For some people ONE sign is enough to believe.
- For some people 10 signs are enough.
- But some people don't come to believe even after more than 1000 miraculous signs.

Verses about:

1- Big bang theory (in a nut shell).
2- Geo spherical Ostrich egg shaped earth (spherical which is the exact shape)
3- Cosmic dust (referred more perfectly as smoke).
4- How water seep into the earth and rain cycle through AIR.
5- Sweet and salt water of oceans and barrier between them.
6-Expanding sun, solar system and universe for given period of time
7- Earth, sun and stars revolving on their axis and path (orbits).
8- Sun and moon have different paths (orbits).
9- Sun and stars consuming there energy.
10- Reflected sun light of moon. In Arabic mooneer (moon) it self means reflected light.
11- Upper thin layer of earth, which is hold by mountains as nails (bigger in size deep in earth) from shacking.
12- Perfect shape and stages of human embryo.
13- All living being made out of water.
14- All plants and even fruits have male and female attributes.
15- The exact way of plants and animal’s behavior and how they communicate.

AND MANY MORE............

THESE ARE ALL RECENT DISCOVERIES AND SIGN FOR THOSE SINCERELY SEEKING TRUTH