All Comments (198)

Susan:-
Condolences on your encounter with Nick Gillespie. Beside his shortcomings as an interviewer, he seems exactly the person that "The Age of American Unreeeason" was written about.

Don't Force Your Morals on Me

Whose morals are being forced on America when they make laws against stealing, lying under oath, proscribe murder except for the unborn. Are they no longer moral laws anymore? Justice Stevens doesn’t seem to think so.

Why not let there be free sex and do away with the Laws of Marriage? That’s what the atheists Michael Kinsley suggested as Opinion Editor of the Los Angeles Times. Isn't marriage a law that forces couples to take moral responsibility for their children? Doesn’t the State have any interest in its posterity?

Maybe we should legalize uninhibited sex without a moral responsibility for the unborn child. We wouldn’t want to force such family morality on a poor sex fiend or the pederastic would we?

If your unborn child bothers you, you can have him sucked to pieces for a few bucks, and make a few bucks off his organs and body parts on the side by selling them to researchers.

Taking of innocent life doesn't seem much of a problem for the atheist and agnostics. After all, it's their body irrespectively to their obligations to society and the unborn child.

Marriage doesn't have much standing according to the radical left. However, us stupid Christians think it does. For some irrational reason, Christians believe Marriage is what binds the family. We all know what a family is. .It’s the foundation of society.

Christians also think human life has dignity; to bad, they didn't consult the atheists about that. The majority didn't think so when the Court gave permission to legally murder Terri Schiavo. They just redefined her as a vegetable and we all know what you can do with vegetables, don't we.

It's a shame we have to force people to obey the moral laws created by God. We should be able to write our own moral laws. In fact, Mao, Hitler, Saddam, Lennon, Idi Amin, bin Laden and his merry ban of maniacal lunatic barbarians seem have tried that route and it hasn't been too successful. Did you ever wonder why? Stalin tried it for years and ended murdering some sixty million people before it was put on hold for a while. Cuba and China still think it might work, after Mao murdered over sixty million.

You begin to wonder, why do these blockheads take 30 to 40 years to figure this out when it’s already been written by Christianity that a godless country has never succeeded. Moreover, godlessness has only brought down the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse—Famine, Pestilence, War and Death.

Supreme Court Justice Stevens, a noble atheist, said traditional moral values have no beneficial value to the State or its society and have no standing in Civil Law. That’s kind of strange reasoning, when the Founding Fathers wrote the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence based on a Christian God’s Moral Laws. The Natural Moral Law is the foundation of man’s inalienable rights and all Civil Law. Of course, Relativist don’t believe in basic inviolable rights except their own.

Justice Stevens subsequently legalized the murder of the unborn and legalized homosexuality making them Constitutional rights.

Did it matter that Stevens abrogated the Constitution's Bill of Rights that all men are equal and have a right to be secure in their own person. I don't think so.

Did it matter Stevens proscribed the inalienable right fundamental to all men, the Right to Life, and ascribed to the Court that it has the sole authority to determine who should live and who should die irrespective of the Legislature? I don't think so.

Nor did it seem to matter that the Court abrogated the Amendment Clause and wrote their own laws? It doesn’t seem like it. Did it matter that five justices impugned the Separation of Powers in doing so? It might if it affected them.

Writing laws by the Court is all well and good when it suits the radical left. However, allowing the Powers of Separation to be maligned by the Court gives the Court a precedence and powers to negate Congress the voice of the people and that may prove unfortunate, not just for the right, but for the liberal as well.

Inalienable rights become unimportant to the liberal, when defending an unconstitutional right, but become very important when their rights are threatened.

Evidently, the Four Apocalyptic Judges on the Court—Ginsberg, Breyer, Souter, and Stephens—thought partial birth abortion was a Constitutional right.

During a challenge of the Congress's law against Partial Birth Abortion, one of the Apocalypse Justices was trying to find out how far the baby had to be out of the birth canal before the abortionist plunged a scissors into the back of its skull and sucked out its brains.

The four Justices weren’t concerned if the child being born was human even though it was obvious that it was. If one denies reality, he eventually destroys himself.

If America can witlessly accept such intrusions of the Separation of Powers by the Justices, then they unwittingly approve of destroying the Constitution that made America one of the greatest governments in history.

Christmas and the Atheists

The world has come to celebrates Christmas but sadly, not one atheists or materialist showed up.

“Christmas night, stars shine bright, and all the angels are singing,’ The Son of God is Born' Little Child, Holy Child, how I want to be near You, this blessed Christmas night –Garry Gamble”

Luke 2: 2cf.
“And behold an angel of the Lord stood by them and the brightness of God shone round about them: and the shepherds were filled with a great fear. Then the angel said to them: Fear not; for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy that shall be to all the people: For, this day is born to you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, in the city of David.

And this shall be a sign unto you. You shall find the infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and laid in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God and saying: Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to men of good will.”

On that first Christmas day, Mary brought God’s Son into the world and gave Him to all mankind. Eternal light was brought into a world of darkness to light the hearts of all. The Lover came to the beloved; the beloved became the lover. The aura of Christmas is a story of the Perfect Lover infinitely giving Himself to all man, and man responds in mutual reciprocity.

“Love came down at Christmas, Love all lovely, love divine. Love was born at Christmas; Stars and angels gave the sign—Georgina Rossetti”

Christmas is a celebration of a soul’s ineffable dream for the perfect love coming true, for the desire of God is written in every human heart.

“Christmas is not a time nor a season, but a state of mind, to cherish peace and goodwill, to be plenteous in mercy, is to have the real spirit of Christmas—Calvin Coolidge."

Today our nation has unconsciously chosen to rebuke Christmas with a “culture of death.” Sadly, in America, our culture is impaling life’s sacredness. When we impugn human life, we vicariously impugn God through His beloved. The Crèche, that portrays the Holy Family, is banned from the public square; Christ is being taken out of Christmas (XMAS), and Christmas is being incrementally taken out of America.

America’s soul is slowly turning its gaze from the Infinite Good to the profane. Our nation’s heart is overshadowed by a morbid insensitivity towards life. America’s once noble passion to revere life is being traduced by a false sense of compassion defined by a stolid and deadly pragmatism that demeans life. Many schools of medicine have abandoned the teaching of the time-honored Hippocratic Oath, an oath that holds life sacred.

The integrity of life is experiencing a bizarre transmogrification that disembodies man from human dignity. This transmogrify is a contradiction to the Christmas Spirit and is a discord to social order. Its human destructiveness is self-evident in the intentional termination of over 48 million unborn in America and over a billion worldwide.

Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Clause. He is the Christmas Spirit sent down from Heaven by the Mad Lover at Christmas. It is a Spirit of awesome intimate love and joy, undeniable, real, ubiquitous, unwavering, and eternal. Everyone feels its presence of wonder and jubilation. But many refuse to bathe in its Joy. We must embrace it by asking for his Love.

To embrace it is to embrace Eternal Happiness, unbounded in Love. To reject His love is to journey into a futile rapture of unfulfilled emptiness and hopelessness that engenders a self-destructive cynicism and despondency.

So in this beautiful season of Christmas, do not be foolish. Reach for the hand of God! Open the door of your heart to the Infinite Lover. Let His love delirious intoxicate you; His infinite tenderness inebriate you! Feel the thrill of eternal joy and happiness! Let the Mad Lover take you to the celebration of the world’s greatest birthday party.

Do not seek that your Christmas and New Year be only happy and merry. Ask that they also be Holy, then happiness and joy will ensue. Then the Mad Lover will come to consume you, His beloved. Because of His merciful compassion, his intimate infinite love, He has uniquely created you from His unfathomable altruism.

So, come and rejoice at this Christmas feast and be filled with the joys and gifts of the Spirit! Then, you shall receive the Author of Life from His beloved Mother, and you shall eternally be enriched with the blessings of Christmas.

Then the Christmas Spirit will come to wrap you in His arms with His aura of eternal love, touch the deep recesses of your heart with immeasurable joy and happiness, and abide with you forever.

“Then the greater your distress, the more He will comfort you! The more you are scorned, the more He will love you! The more you are insulted, the more He will exalt you! The more you are forgotten, the more He will remember you! If abandoned, He will draw you closer to Himself”—Cardinal John Henry Newman.

"In the end, it was always said of Scrooge that he knew how to keep Christmas well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge. May that be truly said of us all—Charles Dickens." So on this Christmas celebration smile, give your face a holiday, and celebrate Christmas in all its glory.

IN REPLY TO:
“Needless to say, the pope had nothing to say about the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church) … working hand-in-hand with the state in suppressing cultural and political dissent.

So pardon me if I am not impressed with the idea that religion is the solution to serious social problems.”

ANS:
Were you also unimpressed when Pope John Paul II gave Poland the hope that broke the chains of Russian slavery, or Pius XII who saved some 8,000,000 Jews from Nazi executions? To the contrary, the Pope met with the Russians prelates and they walked out.

A religion that worships materialism and humanity, in their wantonness and misapprehensiveness are transgressed by error. Since there is only one God, there can only be one true religion; there cannot be a multitude of contradictory true religions since God cannot contradict himself.

Religions created by man are based on a false perception of God and His creation. That includes Communist religions. Any religion that begins by man is not the true religion. They work on false premises. The Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) has been cleansed by Putin. So ROC is a Communist quasi pseudo religion contravened by materialism and violated by misappropriations.

IN REPLY TO:
“But personal charity alone cannot remedy deep-seated social injustices.”

ANS:
Nor is it meant to.

Benedict XVI
“The capacity to accept suffering for the sake of goodness, truth and justice is an essential criterion of humanity. If my own well-being and safety are ultimately more important than truth and justice…then violence and untruth, reign supreme.

Truth and justice must stand above my comfort and physical well-being, or else my life itself becomes a lie. In the end, even the “yes” to love is a source of suffering, because love always requires expropriations of my “I.” Love simply cannot exist without this painful renunciation of myself, for otherwise it becomes pure selfishness and thereby ceases to be love.

To suffer for the sake of truth and justice, to suffer out of love, and in order to become a person who truly loves—these are fundamental elements of humanity, and to abandon them would destroy man himself.

The atheism of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries is—in its origins and aims—a type of moralism: a protest against the injustices of the world and of world history. A world [to an atheist] marked by so much injustice, innocent suffering, and cynicism of power cannot be the work of a good God. A God with responsibility for such a world would not be a just God, much less a good God to an atheist. Therefore, it is for the sake of morality that this God has to be contested.

Since there is no God to create justice, [for the atheist] it seems [to them] man himself is now called to establish justice. If in the face of this world's suffering, protest against God is understandable. However, the claim that humanity can and must do what no God actually does or is able to do is both presumptuous and intrinsically false.

There is justice. There is an “undoing” of past suffering, reparation that sets things aright. For this reason, faith in the Last Judgment is first and foremost hope—the need for which was made abundantly clear in the upheavals of recent centuries. I am convinced that the question of justice constitutes...the strongest argument, in favor of faith in eternal life—Benedict XVI.”

A true Christian has an eternal destiny. He turns to God, who assists him in his needs on his odyssey to eternity. The Christian knows there is an eternal reward that awaits him. To him life is a journey to eternal bliss. The only thing an atheists has to look forward to is a dead end and a quick death.

Personal charity is not supposed to cure all injustices; nothing but God can do that. No law can stop every injustice only God can do that. What man and just laws can do is ameliorate the iniquities. Because sin entered the world from Adam’s transgression, social injustices will always exist. Religion gives man faith and hope that Justice will always triumph in the end.

The Truth can set man free from his many frustrations and disappointments and give man the fortitude and perseverance to withstand them. Therefore, man must seek the Truth who is God, for it is impossible to have hope without God’s intercession. However, the problem is, man must make the choice to accept God's help.

Since man has a free will, it is man’s choice to choose the Good. If he chooses evil, he becomes incapacitated. That is why we have laws and justice systems that proscribe evil; however they only allay evil and not remove it.

In addition, there are the two great commandments of Christianity, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself,” and “Do unto others as you will do unto yourself.” After that, man must rely on God, for only God is capable of the requital of all injustices and the restoration of reparation of Justice.

IN REPLY TO;
"Have atheists denied funds for public health programs that encourage people to use condoms in countries where AIDS is rampant?"

ANS:
No, but they should have. In North America in 2006, where there is a plentitude of condoms, there were 43,000-cases of AIDS. Using condoms to solve AIDS contamination is like cutting your head off to solve a headache. Encouraging the use of condoms is a prescription for the spread of AIDS and STDS. Have you checked lately on the number of people dying in America from both?

Facts About Condoms in Brief
http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0011.html

If you really want to save people from AIDS, try preaching sex is meant only for Marriage and you won’t need condoms to prevent AIDS or STDs. Moreover, preaching the use of condoms gives one a false belief that condoms prevent AIDS and STDs. To the contrary, they just reduce the risk, a risk only a fool would take.

In addition, condoms are against the Natural Moral Law and the institution of Marriage. Of course, an atheist doesn’t believe in the Moral Law because they can’t recognize the existence of a God who created them. So they make their own moral laws to suit their whims. Consequently, morality becomes subjective and each atheists and agnostic has his own set of morals rendering Morality meaningless.

To the contrary, Morality is based on the nature of man; its principles are universal and unchanging, and the same for all man irrespective of his beliefs, religion or his state in life. To change them, one must change the nature of man. Consequently, atheists redefined not only the Natural Moral Law but inadvertently change the nature of man.

Hence, man becomes an animal that can be disposed of when he is a problem. Thus, an unborn child is disposable at the whims of an atheistic society and man becomes a commodity, the babies’ aborted body parts are sold on the open market. Billy Jean King had her baby legally murdered to play in a tennis match.

Subsequently, divorce is approaching fifty percent and shack-ups and live-ins are becoming the fashion, sex for pleasure alone is ubiquitous throughout our culture presented as natural phenomena, awash in video, books, art, and literature. Notwithstanding, single parent families are at a high rate, and single parent families and a source of high crime rates. The Oklahoma Mall Shooter was an itinerant of a multitude of State appointed foster parent homes.

Every time man tries to abrogate the authority of God, they end creating more of a catastrophe than when they began. Karl Marx, who redefined man and society, is a lamentable example.

In America, the Court redefined “freedom of speech” to included pornography. That generated a plethora of sex crimes, out of wedlock pregnancies, and a watershed of STDs and AIDS. Sex relationship is becoming animalistic; its dignity and its sacredness is being impugned. Conjugal Love in marriage lost its primary purpose, the procreation of a family is being replaced with Sex for Pleasure only, and procreation, the primary purpose of sex is becoming a secondary purpose that is eschewed by the Epicureans.

The solution for unwanted pregnancies is contraceptives; the pill is purported to cause carcinogenic problems. The use of contraceptives produced even more unwanted pregnancies and social problems. The solution was for the Court to redefined human nature by legalizing murder by abortion. Over 48 million unborn have so far died from that solution.

From abortion, some women have become sterile; some died. We get a subsequent solution to sterilization, "In Vitro Fertilization" (IVF) and the murder of the embryo.

IN REPLY TO:
Were atheists responsible for 'ethnic cleansing' in Bosnia?”

ANS:
Slobodan Milosevic, an atheist, had a little bit to do with the “ethnic cleansing,” if you haven’t heard he was a Communist. Communist are atheists, a.k.a. they don’t believe in God. Communist, who are atheists have little respect for human dignity. Milosevic, a Communist, went on to study law at Belgrade University, where he became the head of the IDEOLOGY Committee of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia (LCY) student branch

His father and mother were staunch Communist. His father hung himself in 1962; his mother hung herself in 1974. It’s a tradition with Communist atheists government officials, namely, hang or be hanged. Either they commit suicide, or their comrades murder them for being good Communists. Do a little research sometime instead of making obscure and incomprehensible remarks that are somewhat intellectually irresponsible and casuistic.

IN REPLY TO:
“Oh, wait, the Serbian Christians were the biggest offenders. Benedict even resorted to beating the dead horse of communism and cited atheism as the reason for Stalin and Mao's crimes. This is utter nonsense.”

ANS:
“Utter nonsense” you say. You seem to be having a habit of letting your predispositions become obstacles to the truth. The horses you mention are the dead horses that both Stalin and Mao rode--the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. They brought a rein of terror and destruction on everything they touched. That’s what happens when man writes his own moral laws.

All Communist are atheists whether they worship at a Church cleansed by Communists murderers or not. Stalin and Mao were just two atheists who thought they were God and made their own moral codes just like all atheists do.

You might try the link below to fine out who is murdering whom.

Jihad Watch
Thursday, 20 April 2006
http://www.savekosovo.org/default.asp?p=3&leader=0&sp=30

IN REPLY TO:
What made Soviet Communism a religion was what makes any religion a religion--imperviousness to countervailing evidence.

ANS:
Religion is the paying homage and worshiping God. There is only one true God. If it’s a false God, than it’s not truly a religion but a delusion.

All atheists believe in a god, but it’s a false god and not a real god at all. Atheists make themselves a god unto themselves, as did Stalin and all Communists do; they are their own god. They pagans, atheists, skeptics, heretics, the heathens are all lumped together in one various form or another. They abrogate the Natural Moral Law and usurp the authority of God by making their own moral codes.

Again the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse on the Court—Stephens, Ginsberg, Souter, Breyer—riding the backs of atheism, agnosticism, heathenism, and paganism claimed the Traditional Moral Law had no standing and served no purpose in civil law. They made their world an anthropocentric one that centers on man and denies the authority of God.

The Court traduced the Constitution and sanctified it by giving it precedence over the word of God. All four denounced the Natural Moral Law by redefining the nature of man and legalizing the murder of the unborn. Consequently, they contravened man's most basic inalienable right, a Right to Life.

To the contrary, it is the atheist that ignores the countervailing evidence. They choose their predispositions over reality. The atheists can’t even admit to Stalin and Mao's atheists. As Einstein so aptly put it, he who can not see there is a God is brain dead. Their minds are closed to reality.

Accordingly, in their blindness atheists and agnostics rely on science only when it is in consonance with their dispositions; otherwise, science becomes their bane.

Thus, atheism can justify Embryo Stem Cell Research (ESCR), they disregarding such eminent scientists as the modern “Father of Eugenics” Dr. Jerome Lejeune, the "Father of IVF. Dr. Landrum Shettles, and former Mayo Clinic’s Chairman of Eugenics Dr. Hymie Gordon, Gordon speaks for them all, "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, human life is present from the moment of conception.” It follows; ESCR and abortion are the murder of a conceived child.

Without a God, man loses his immortality. His purpose in life, in the end, has no meaning. In his final hours, suicide is man's final solution. When an atheist faces evil that is out of his control, he can not turn to God. His final solution is despondency. Atheists, in the thralls of death, have no hope for eternity.

Thus, Schiavo’s life, unfortunately to an atheist, was no longer human; she had no more dignity than a vegetable and was disposed of as one. Schiavo's humanity had been redefined.

IN REPLY TO:
“Seen any atheists committing suicide bombings lately?”

ANS:
At the top of my head, I can name Joseph Stalin, Hitler, and Mao Zedong. Then you might include in this coterie Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and Hitler. I think they murdered and bomb millions. Stalin and Mao are responsible for killing about a 120 million alone.

I believe there are no true atheists, and that one who worships a false god worship no god at all; they only think they do.

The atheist wants to deny the tragedies and social upheavals that atheism, hedonism, and atheism have wrought and claim the triumphs of Christianity in the world for their own. Why, because atheism is an ideology of frustration. It has no accomplishments. It is a contradiction of human nature that denies the immortality of the soul, and therefore makes the Natural Moral Law meaningless because there is no Transcendental Authority to enforce it. Man becomes the sole arbiter of morality.

Morality becomes subjective and idiosyncratic denying the reality of moral objectiveness. Subsequently, man is left with an innate longing for eternal happiness but is without the compass, Christianity, to find it. That is the definition of Hell. It was that living Hell that encapsulated the Mall shooter.

Atheism and agnosticism are a devaluation of self-worth and self-destruction. The Oklahoma Mall shooter is an illustration of an atheist whose frustration with his own existence led him to social destruction and finally suicide. He saw no value in life. He cried out for love, but he was blind to the unfailing love his God had for him.

“When man’s everyday hopes are fulfilled, however, it becomes clear that only something infinite will suffice for him, something that will always be more than he can ever attain. In this regard, our contemporary age has developed the hope of creating a perfect world that, thanks to scientific knowledge and to scientifically based politics, seemed to be achievable. Thus, Biblical hope in the Kingdom of God has been displaced by hope in the kingdom of man, the hope of a better world that would be the real “Kingdom of God.”

Man's Kingdom seemed at last to be the great and realistic hope that man needs. It was capable of galvanizing—for a time—all man's energies. In the course of time, however, it has become clear that this hope is constantly receding.

Hence, while we must always be committed to the improvement of the world, tomorrow's better world cannot be the proper and sufficient content of our hope.

We must free ourselves from the hidden lies with which we deceive ourselves. God sees through them, and when we come before God, we too are forced to recognize them. I am culpable for the numbness of my conscience and my Incapacity to recognize the evil in me for what it is. If God does not exist, perhaps I have to seek refuge in these lies,[Marxism, Socialism, and Fascism] because there is no one who can forgive me; no one who is the true criterion. Yet my encounter with God awakens my conscience in such a way that it no longer aims at self-justification, and is no longer a mere reflection of me and those of my contemporaries who shape my thinking, but it becomes a capacity for listening to the Good itself.

When we try to spare ourselves the effort and pain of pursuing truth, love, and goodness, that we drift into a life of emptiness, in which there may be almost no pain, but the dark sensation of meaninglessness and abandonment is all the greater—Spe Salvi.”

The Mall shooter said his life was meaningless and he tried to make everyone else’s life meaningless too.

“If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I sink to the nether world, you are present there ... If I say, ‘Surely the darkness shall hide me, and night shall be my light' —for you darkness itself is not dark, and night shines as the day; darkness and light are the same” (Ps 139 [138]:8-12; cf. also Ps 23 [22]:4).

Let us say once again; we need the greater and lesser hopes that keep us going day by day. But these are not enough without the great hope, which must surpass everything else. This great hope can only be God, who encompasses the whole of reality and who can bestow upon us what we, by ourselves, cannot attain.

Let us say once again, we need the greater and lesser hopes that keep us going day by day. But these are not enough without the great hope, which must surpass everything else. This great hope can only be God, who encompasses the whole of reality and who can bestow upon us what we, by ourselves, cannot attain.

The capacity to accept suffering for the sake of goodness, truth and justice is an essential criterion of humanity, because if my own well-being and safety are ultimately more important than truth and justice, then the power of the stronger prevails, then violence and untruth reign supreme—Benedict XVI.”

IN REPLY TO
“Religion has, historically, been used more frequently to foster resignation in the poor, sick, and oppressed--by promising them an eternal reward in the next world--than it has been used to change the conditions of their earthly lives.”

ANS:
“An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings."

“It is not science that redeems man: man is redeemed by love. This applies even in terms of this present world. When someone has the experience of a great love in his life, this is a moment of “redemption” which gives a new meaning to his life. But soon he will also realize that the love bestowed upon him cannot resolve by itself the question of his life. It is a love that remains fragile. It can be destroyed by death.

The human being needs unconditional love. He needs the certainty which makes him say: “neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:38- 39).

If this absolute love exists, with its absolute certainty, then—only then—is man “redeemed,” whatever should happen to him in his particular circumstances.

This is what it means to say, "Jesus Christ has 'redeemed' us." Through him we have become certain of God, a God who is not a remote “first cause” of the world, because his only-begotten Son has become man and of him everyone can say: “I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal 2:20).

In this sense it is true that anyone who does not know God, even though he may entertain all kinds of hopes, is ultimately without hope, without the great hope that sustains the whole of life (cf. Eph 2:12).

Man's great, true hope which holds firm in spite of all disappointments can only be God—God who has loved us and who continues to love us “to the end,” until all “is accomplished” (cf. Jn 13:1 and 19:30).

Whoever is moved by love begins to perceive what “life” really is. He begins to perceive the meaning of the word of hope that we encountered in the Baptismal Rite. From faith I await “eternal life”—the true life which, whole and unthreatened, in all its fullness, is simply life.

Jesus, who said that He had come so that we might have life and have it in its fullness, in abundance (cf. Jn 10:10), has also explained to us what “life” means: “this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (Jn 17:3). Life in its true sense is not something we have exclusively in or from ourselves: it is a relationship.

Life in its totality is a relationship with Him who is the source of life. If we are in relation with Him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live.”

An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine and therefore reality.

'If I go up to the heavens, you are there. If I sink to the nether world, you are present there. ... If I say, ‘Surely the darkness shall hide me, and night shall be my light' —for you darkness itself is not dark, and night shines as the day; darkness and light are the same' (Ps 139 [138]:8-12; cf. also Ps 23 [22]:4). "Spe Salvi (In Hope We Are Saved) Benedict XVI

Personally, I don’t believe there’s such a thing as an atheist. It’s often said there are no atheist in the foxhole. That’s because their fear of death is greater than their denial of God. Atheists know there’s a God; they don’t want to admit it because they’re afraid of Truth. They hide in darkness to avoid the light of Eternal Truth.

The evidence there is a God, an Eternal Truth, is indisputable: absolute and incontrovertible. Such evidence is manifested in the effects of Creation. The existence of God is patent, unequivocal, and so obvious only a simpleton or a dullard could be so mentally blind not to see it.

Einstein simply puts it, “That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.

He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.”--A.E.

The atheist claims there is no God and then makes himself a god unto himself. Adam and Eve thought they could be God. Trying to be one’s own god was the cause of Original Sin at the time of man's creation.

Such arrogance of disbelief in God is the cause of the mess we’re in now, but the atheist is the witless nescient oblivious to God's reality.

Atheistic and agnostic ideologies are fertile ground for materialism because they redefine and devalue man's immortal nature. Consequently, the unborn is matter and can be conveniently disposed of. Such ideology has engendered a legacy of the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse, Famine, War, Pestilence, and Death personified in the Middle East, Africa and India.

IN REPLY TO:
“It seems that some Shariah-promoting politicians are now being prosecuted for embezzling millions of dollars, and some of the clerics are having second thoughts about the religious intolerance that has resulted, according to human rights organizations, in the deaths of 11,000 to 15,000 in religious/tribal conflicts since 1999 (www.nytimes.com, p. 1, December 1, 2007.)”

ANS:
Man has a free will and by his nature has a right to choose the Good. If he chooses evil, he pays a dire consequence. Embezzlement is a sin against the Seventh Commandment. Religious intolerance is a sin against the two great Commandments, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself,” and “Do unto others as you do unto yourself.” Both evils are forbidden by Catholicism.

Because our Constitution is based on our Judeo-Christian heritage, America is probably the most tolerant country in the world; we even tolerate Communist, notwithstanding atheists and agnostics.

“Respect for the human person entails respect for the rights that flow from his dignity as a creature. These rights are prior to society and must be recognized by it.” Thus, the Founding Fathers placed them in our Constitution’s Bill of Rights and defended them in Declaration of Independence.

“These rights are the basis of the moral legitimacy of every authority: by flouting them, or refusing to recognize them in its positive legislation, a society undermines its own moral legitimacy.”

So states the Constitution. “If it does not respect them, authority can rely only on force or violence to obtain obedience from its subjects. It is the Church's role to remind men of good will of these rights and to distinguish them from unwarranted or false claims.

Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that "everyone should look upon his neighbor (without any exception) as 'another self,' above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity.’

No legislation, by itself, could do away with the fears, prejudices, and attitudes of pride and selfishness that obstruct the establishment of truly fraternal societies. Such behavior will cease only through the charity that finds in every man a "neighbor," a brother.”

IN REPLY TO:
“…as long as religion claims the right to determine civil law, there can be no freedom and security for anyone who disagrees.

ANS:
The Catholic religion doesn’t claim any right to determine the Civil Law; that is determined by God. The Church only defends them. Those who disagree invite the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse—Pestilence, Famine, War, and Death—down upon their nation. Today the Supreme Court majority has legalized the murder of over 48 million unborn.

The Courts have recognized legal divorce, and now we are approaching a fifty percent divorce rate. The Court is in the process of recognizing Gay Marriage an oxymoron. There is no right to immorality, but the Court has legalized immorality and made it a Constitutional right.

The Court has recognized the right of live-ins, and now we are witness to the destruction of the marriage, and in the end the destruction of the basic foundation of a nation, the family.

Because we are becoming a nation of intolerance of the fundamental moral laws we were founded on, we have created a social malaise that is overshadowing the country. It is a malaise that has invaded the inalienable right to life for the unborn.

Justice Stephens, in concluding for the majority that homosexuality is a natural right, based his opinion on the claim that traditional morality has no standing in Civil Law and has no redeeming value, though all civil law is based on the Natural Moral Law. Civil Law based on the Natural Moral Law was the unanimous opinion of the Founding Fathers.

Moreover, without a transcendental authority, morality is determined by man. What man gives, man can take away. To the contrary, the Declaration, the rationale for which this country sought its independence, did not claim to give inalienable rights to man, but to recognize them as given to man by God, and therefore, they are inviolable.

Moreover, the Declaration states that if our government consistently ignores these inalienable rights, it is the duty of the citizens to overthrow that government and create a new government that is in consonance with human nature.

In addition, Madison was so adamant that these inalienable right be in the Constitution, he added not only the Bill of Rights but also the Ninth amendment to the Constitution to ensure that all natural rights be recognized, even than those not enumerated. Consequently, he wrote the Ninth Amendment—“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

One should take note that these rights are not retained by the government but by the people, intimating these rights are inherent rights not given by government or man, but by God.

IN REPLY TO:
“Official Communist atheism is gone, but official suppression of the fragile civil liberties that were emerging before Putin is back in--and is supported by both the church and the current leader of the Russian state.

ANS:
When you deal with Communist atheists, what can one expect? Putin has the power and Russia is still embedded in its Communist roots. The last elections held in Russia were considered a fraud by anyone competent to criticize the elections. Putin has never stopped being a Communist; he didn’t rise in the KGB because he wasn’t dictator material.

Consequently, don’t blame the Russian Orthodox Church for the iniquities coming out of Putin’s dictatorship. He was a ruthless leader, and he will remain a ruthless leader and despot. Under the pretense of his facetious altruistic propaganda, Putin still remains a vicious totalitarian despot. I would imagine that the Russian Orthodox Church is powerless to do anything in the open that is adverse to Putin’s dictatorship.

“Deep concern has also been expressed at the fact that at the same time the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church has proclaimed St Seraphim of Sarov to be the Patron Saint of Russian Nuclear Forces. In the opinion of many devout Orthodox, it verges on blasphemy to dishonor the memory of the greatest Saint of the Russian Church in this way, as his whole life and teaching was concerned with gentleness and purity of heart in accordance with the Gospel, not military violence or weapons of mass destruction. It shows yet again that the Russian Orthodox Church is turning into a tool of the Russian State.”—Wikipedia

IN REPLY TO:
"From Nigeria came a mildly hopeful story, about certain Muslim religious leaders pulling back from the harshest imposition of Shariah, Islamic religious law, in Muslim regions of that unhappy country."

ANS:
Again, Muslims can believe anything they want. Thus, they are all over the place claiming Mohammed inspired them, but the Catholic has no such freedom to make or change the moral laws of God that are based on human nature. To do so is to change the nature of man.

When you have the kind of intense variations of Muslim belief that Muslims have, you get into many contradictions and religious conflicts. Thus, the Sunnis have one view, the Hezbollah another, Saddam’s Bathe Party another, the Shiites have their own view, and bin Laden and his terrorists have their view etc, but all claimed to be inspired by Mohammed. That’s the inherent problem with all religions.

All religions contradict each other in part or in whole. Unwittingly, if God inspired all these religions He would be contradicting Himself, and that would be ridiculous. Thus, there can only be one true religion and that has been shown to be the Catholic Church that is the only Church founded by God.

Thus, if you can find a religious founder who did all the things Jesus did, all the miracles he performed, above all raising the dead and rising from the dead, you might have an argument for another true religion, but until then, there is no argument against the Catholic Church as being the one true Church.

IN REPLY TO:
“[THE CHURCH] is as responsible as any other human institution for creating the serious social problems that produce human misery."

ANS:
First, the Catholic Church is not a human institution founded by man but by God. The serious social problems in the world are not produced by the Catholic Church but by an avoidance of Her teachings and moral precepts.

False religions are the cause of social disorder because they are not the true religion and therefore do not have the message of Truth. The wisdom of the Church has been reinforced and strengthened by over 2000 years of its experience in defending the dignity of man. Notwithstanding, history is a witness of those who oppose Her teachings and they end by acceding to social disorder by their cruelty to mankind.

Today, we are witnessing the death of over 48 million unborn by abortion because a Supreme Court majority legalized murder, renounced the Natural Moral Law, and abrogated the inalienable right to life for the unborn. By doing so they have violated the Bill of Rights and impugned the Constitution in which these rights are written.

Other religions teach error and errors cause disorder because the errors are not in consonance with man’s human nature. Thus, these false beliefs deny humanity their God given rights and consign man to a mortal being denying man his final end in eternity.

It is the Catholic Church that so eminently defends the dignity of man, specifically the Right to Life. No other Church defends the dignity of humanity more than the Catholic Church, no one.

That has the atheists and agnostics mortified and discombobulated because they are adamantly opposed to the existence of a Christian God who created them and bestowed upon them the human rights their nature demands. So says the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights that were founded on our Judeo-Christian Heritage and a Christian God by the Founding Fathers.

IN REPLY TO:
“Is religion uniquely equipped to salve the wounds of poverty, disease, and war? Certainly not."

ANS:
To the contrary, it’s been shown that the Church is uniquely equipped to salve the wounds of poverty, diseases, and war. Catholic Charities in its charity has succored quite adequately and magnanimously to the needs of man's misery and assuaged the plights of poor, hungry the sick and suffering.

Mother Theresa and her nuns withstanding are a contemporary example. However, the atheists and agnostics, troglodytes, iconoclasts and the anti-religious Democrats have attempted to forestall the President’s “Faith Based Initiative,” which attempts mitigate the pours suffering more effectively.

As to diseases, it has been previously shown, the Catholic Dream Program has adequately answered that question. Only a lack of resources is inhibiting its unequivocal success. And, who has helped more of the poor and dying than Mother Theresa and Catholic Charities?

As to war, if people would adopt the two great Commandments of the Catholic Church and Christianity, there would be no wars. Namely, “Love one another as God loves you and as you would love yourself” and “Do unto others as you would do unto yourself.”

Unfortunately, because sin entered the world by the sin of Adam, war at times is inevitable. Because of the likes of such atheists like Stalin, Hitler, Mao Zedong, Idi Amin, Saddam, Pol Pot, and Robert Mugabe, sometimes there must be war in self-defense against man’s cruelty to mankind. However, the Church has developed a “Last Resort” theory to mitigate the use of war. In the end, it is man who must choose the guidance of the Church; She can't force man to be good.

It’s correct that every religion is a creation of man, with one exception, the Catholic Church. It was founded by God’s Son, Jesus, who is both man and God. Moreover, He established a Church free from error in its teachings and dogmas. Mt. 28:20; Mt.10; & John 15: 26-27

No other religion has a founder who raised the dead, instantly cured the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the lame walk, cured lepers, who controlled the heavens and the seas and all the creatures in them.

No other religion has a founder who walked on water, calmed storms, fed 5,000 and 7,000 people with a few fish and a few loaves of bread. After the crowd had eaten, twelve hampers of leftovers were gathered.

Moreover, no founder of any religion but the founder of the Catholic Church, was found innocent, was murdered by an ignominious death on a cross, and then risen from the dead. Notwithstanding, his whole life was written some 300 years before He was born.

In addition, no other Church has the gift of infallibility in its teachings and dogmas, or has the four marks that make it the one true Church.

The Church is One in its universal teachings and doctrines, and they have never been changed since the Church was founded, contrary to the anti-Catholic demagogues who rail against Her.

Second, the Church is Apostolic in that its lineage is unbroken from the Apostles to the present. She is holy in that her founder who is God, and She is Universal in that Her Church is for all mankind.

"Now, the Church is called Catholic because it is throughout the world, from one end of the earth to the other. She is diffused by the splendor of one faith from the rising to the setting sun'."

Unlike republics of human institution, or the conventiclers of heretics, she is not circumscribed within the limits of any one kingdom, nor confined to the members of any one society of men, but embraces within the amplitude of her love, all mankind, whether barbarians or Scythians, slaves or freemen, male or female.

To the Catholic Church, built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets (Ephesians 2:20) belong all the faithful who have existed from Adam to the present day, or shall exist in the profession of the true faith to the end of time, all of whom are founded and raised upon the one cornerstone, Christ, who made both one, and announced peace to them that are near, and to them that are afar." It is a peace of the soul.

She is also called universal, because all who desire eternal salvation must cling to and embrace her, like those who entered the ark to escape perishing in the flood. This, therefore, is to be taught as a most just criterion to distinguish the true from a false church."

REPLYING TO:
“People who are living longer with AIDS and HIV today owe their continued existence not to religion or religious leaders but to scientists who have developed new drugs in laboratories over the past two decades.”

YES, CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR BECAUSE GOD ISN'T GOING TO CURE YOU.

However, the AIDS victims in Africa have a different view. In fact, they are consulting those greedy Christians who are taking all the people's money and spending it on their bureaucracies.

Catholic Charities
Emergency Services:
“In 2000, more than 5.9 million people received emergency services such as cash assistance, clothing, help with utility bills, temporary shelter, and food through soup kitchens and food banks.

“Millions of working poor families who do not earn enough to provide for their basic needs are turning to Catholic Charities for support. These families face daily dilemmas: Will we pay the heating bill, or buy clothes for our children? Will we pay the rent, or fix the car that we need to get to work? Do we fill the prescription for high-blood pressure when we need that money to buy food?

Social Services

“In 2000, more than 4 million people received what we call social services. These services work to strengthen individuals and their families, as well as the communities in which they live.
Social services include: adoption, family support, and help for at-risk children, housing assistance, job training, respite care, home care, parenting education, pregnancy counseling, prison ministry, refugee and immigration assistance, and treatment for drug and alcohol abuse.

“Catholic Charities agencies provide a wide range of immediate services such as disaster relief and soup kitchens, as well as long-term services like family counseling and help for at-risk children.

Vision Statement
“Believing in the presence of God in our midst, we proclaim the sanctity of human life and the dignity of the person by sharing in the mission of Jesus given to the Church." Ridiculous, isn't it?

“September 11 Relief and Disaster Recovery Work

“Catholic Charities agencies respond immediately to natural and man made disasters as during 9/11 in the N.Y. and D.C. surroundings. Catholic Charities volunteers were still supporting relief efforts after others had long gone." I wonder where are all the freethinkers doing. Where are their organizations?

“Their desire to help is not limited by age, race, geography, or faith. Their desire is simply to give something of themselves to make a difference in someone else's life." Yes, it's called love for neighbor.

They are in the world serving as mentors, food bank workers, or senior citizen companions, giving the most important gift to those in need—selfless service.

“The bottom line is that Catholic Charities agencies are providing vital services to millions based on the unique needs of their individual communities. Their long-term assistance can last weeks, months-even years-after a disaster.”

Moreover, “Catholic Charities DREAM (short for "Drug Resources Enhancement against Aids and Malnutrition has proven to be an efficient means of giving access to free ARV treatment with generic HAART drugs to the poor on a large scale: So far, 5,000 people are receiving ARV treatment, especially in Mozambique, but the program is being built up also in other countries: Malawi, Guinea, Tanzania and others.

“The clinic is run by the Italian Catholic charity, Santo Egidio, and treats 2,500 patients, among them 100 inmates from the local jail.

“Despite being FREE, the program aims at excellence in treatment, providing the best existent range of drugs (HAART) and regular blood testing according to European standards.

“Treatment is linked with a nutrition program as well as guidance and sanitary education by volunteers ( and other HIV patients). Today Dream has saved the lives of some 20,000 AIDS victims.”

“Two million people in Africa are getting drug therapies for AIDS as part of the DREAM project. Twelve laboratories already exist in eight different African countries.” Are Catholics brainwashed? Do they hate gays or the sin? Ask Dream.

Notwithstanding, AIDS alone isn’t the only killer of AIDS victims; suicide in a Los Angeles homosexual community is the major cause of their deaths.

And try this for religious hyprocracy. Ever heard of St. Jude's Hospital?

"Make a difference in the life of a child this holiday season by joining Marlo Thomas, her celebrity friends and St. Jude Children's Research Hospital® for our Thanks and Giving campaign.

"Your support can help us find cures for pediatric
cancers and other deadly diseases. Eighty-five cents of every dollar St. Jude receives goes directly to research and treatment." There's those Catholics trying to get your money for their bureaucracies."

IT TAKES MORE THAN SCIENTISTS AND DOCTORS TO AID AIDS VICTIMES:

"Spokesman Mario Marazziti told reporters that the group had established 13 centres in Mozambique under the auspices of the Drug Resource Enhancement against AIDS and Malnutrition project (DREAM), where it treated and cared for people living with AIDS. Around 16.4 percent of Mozambique's estimated 20 million people have contracted HIV, according to the World Health Organisation.

Of the 70,000 people in Africa who currently receive anti-retrovirals (ARVs), about 7,000 are reportedly under the care of Sant' Egidio.

With a small annual budget of five million dollars, DREAM organisers are hoping that the World Bank will come on board as a partner in the project. "Therapy is the only way to avoid (having) the entire struggle against AIDS in the southern areas of the world fail, and much of Africa, today and tomorrow, disappear," said Marazziti.

Nearly 30 million of the 42 million people infected with HIV worldwide are in Africa, according to the latest statistics from the United Nations Joint Program on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS). Sant' Egidio is planning to extend its services to Malawi, Angola, the Central African Republic, Guinea Bissau, Guinea-Conakry, South Africa and Swaziland.

A video presentation shown to reporters on Tuesday (Mar. 16) also told of how a Mozambican, Isaias Joan Joao, had benefited from the ARVs dispensed by DREAM. Although his bones were protruding from his lanky structure when he first came to Sant' Egidio, Joao knew little about AIDS. And, his family had all but given up on him.

"I lost a lot of weight. I couldn't sit. I couldn't walk. I needed support even for simple activities like eating and bathing," he recalls. "I was taken to the hospital and diagnosed with AIDS."

That was in 2002. By last year he had regained his weight. "My neighbours, who had known and seen my condition, don't recognise me anymore. They think I am dead," says Joao, smiling.

"Indeed, I was dead, but now I have resurrected," the 31-year-old adds. "At the centre, they feed us, bathe us, treat us and follow up the cases of those who are at home."

"The most interesting thing is I didn't pay a cent. But someone paid my bill. I don't know who."

In February, experts and medical doctors from Sant' Egidio presented the results of the DREAM project at a conference on viruses and opportunistic infections in San Francisco. More than 3,000 scientists attended the meeting, considered the most prestigious annual scientific event on HIV/AIDS in the world.

Marazziti rejects the argument that economic and social constraints often make it impossible for Africans to maintain ARV therapy. "If you provide the proper environment for care and treatment, nothing is really impossible."

"Testing without treatment and care will amount to a death sentence for a person with AIDS," he adds. "But if they know that you treat them and look after them, they will not refuse to have themselves tested. In fact, they know that knowing their status will not amount to a death sentence," he says.

Sant' Egidio, which works with local health authorities in Mozambique, puts the cost of full ARV treatment at about 800 dollars per year. "This is still a lot of money. But it is nothing compared to the cost of war materials and cosmetics," observes Marazziti.

More than 350 million people in Africa, over half the continent's population, live on less than a dollar a day, according to the World Bank.

Michael Drysdale of AIDSLINK, a Johannesburg-based non-governmental organization, said ARVs should be distributed free to the poor. "We also have to look at the issue of nutrition which is crucial in managing the conditions of people with HIV/AIDS," he said."

The idea of historical records is interesting. Occasionally I wonder what would have happened if Gandhi had done his stuff a thousand years ago. It is probably due to the quality of the records we have that he has not been mythologized to the point were people are split between worshipping him and denying that he ever existed.

Dear Arminius -

Thanks for your response. After reading it, I'm pondering what was behind your original post to which I responded. Perhaps you were just being a tad snarky.

We're on the same page about the historical "evidence" for jesus/Socrates/Homer et al.

Best,

Mr Mark

Most of the stuff Jesus said and was said to have done was actually pretty standard-issue for ;street crazies' in that day and age.

I wouldn't be too mean to JJ. He's not gonna make the books, but, copyright issues he raises aside,

No new tale to tell. :)

Mad Love: “you seem to feel that scholars who should know better are giving Jesus a free pass. If that is correct, why do you think they are doing it?”

Don’t know, can only speculate. My theory is that they are simple ivory-tower academicians who are neither interested nor equipped to take on the public relations storm that would accompany any negative pronouncement about Jesus. Thus, it’s easier to make a welcome and expected statement that “most scholars” think Jesus existed, than to get into any of the shaky details, and to avoid making any negative statements that “most scholars” also support (e.g., the Moses myth and the myth of the miraculous birth of Jesus). The public doesn’t react much to the scholars’ statements: believers accept the scholars’ support of what they already believe, and non-believers discard it as another example of the establishment selling out.

This has worked so well for the scholars for such a long time that they’re used to people accepting it.

Then, Mad Love, there are things that I know, because I’ve made a point to ask: Some clergy are always walking the line between what they know and what they think their flock wants to know or is ready to hear. Some clergy are incredibly frustrated because their flock makes it abundantly clear that they only want to hear the old stories and want no rocking of the boat. Some clergy deflect questions from their flock because they fear losing pledging members if they answer candidly. Some clergy “believe in belief” (as philosopher Dan Dennett would say), willingly passing on stories they know are not factual to their parishioners, because they think organized religion is good for people.

Mr Mark, my favorite Aist, said:

"I'm disappointed to see you resorting to the "no one can prove that anyone existed or exists, THEREFORE, Jesus DID exist and was the Son of God," argument by mentioning Socrates. Maybe you're tired, bored or simply out of fresh ideas. Having advanced the argument, I'll assume that you're more than familiar with the usual counter-arguments.

I did not say that. Not at all. I am after historical methods here. I am perfectly aware of the lack of absolute proof for the historical existence of Jesus. I am also aware that this absolute proof is lacking for a great number of other historical figures, such as Socrates, Cyrus the Great, etc. Yes, I believe in the historical Jesus, but it is a belief. Can't prove it at all.

Arminius, a Christian

Mr. Mark/E Favorite

If I am understanding your points correctly, you seem to feel that scholars who should know better are giving Jesus a free pass. If that is correct, why do you think they are doing it?

Hey JJ, say no to crack!!!!! I think you should consider psychiatric treatment.

"Good bye Newsweek, Washington Post, Editor & POST et al:
Good bye every body!"

Fare thee well, JJ.

I wouldn't worry about plagiarism: I think we can safely say nobody can carry off some of what you've said.

I hope the fresh air does you good. Forums like this can really just end up ritualizing the conflicts. I think you were a shinier, happier guy when you first arrived.

This 'Culture War' does a lot of harm, and it's important to unplug once in a while, because the Internet tends to amplify differences.

PS - I just read Crossan and Borg's piece here on the first Christmas and see that we mention similar points about the social/political situation in 1st century Judea.

I could say "Great minds think alike" but I believe the more obvious explanation is that I originally got my information from them.

Dear Arminius -

I'm disappointed to see you resorting to the "no one can prove that anyone existed or exists, THEREFORE, Jesus DID exist and was the Son of God," argument by mentioning Socrates. Maybe you're tired, bored or simply out of fresh ideas. Having advanced the argument, I'll assume that you're more than familiar with the usual counter-arguments.

Your argument could just have well been the following:

Arminius: You owe me $1000
Mr Mark: No I don't. Prove it.
A: What proof do you want? Can you prove you love your wife?
MM: Well, I can't "prove" I love my wife, but I'll say that I love her deeply.
A: Fine. I'm willing to take your word that you love your wife, so you should take my word that you owe me $1000. Your check will do nicely. That, or large bills.

Now, there are points of agreement that we can reach in your Socrates challenge. For instance, I'm willing to agree that one can cherry-pick the good stuff that Jesus or Socrates said and use that info to better one's life. One can agree with Jesus' "love your neighbor" stuff while disagreeing with the "hate your family stuff," just as surely as one can agree with the Socratic Method without feeling the need to drink the hemlock when the going gets rough.

I will even stipulate that said Socratic Method could just as easily be the invention of Plato as Xianity was the invention of St Paul. That said, the obvious difference between the two is that the truth of the Socratic Method is in no way dependent on whether or not Socrates existed, while the truth of Xianity is entirely dependent on whether or not Jesus actually existed, at least in his non-Gnostic form (that form being a non-corporeal, pure spirit god).

As far as my using Xian as a shorthand for Christian (ie: the Greek letter "chi" which has a long history of being used to signify Christ), you and I have been through this before, your objections have been duly noted even as my reasons for using the "X" shorthand have been given, we agree to disagree on this point - time to move on, don't you think?

Thanks for the chat.

Mad Love: regarding Jesus being “entirely fictional,” if you change the term in quotes to “mythical,” it doesn’t sound like deliberate scam, at least not to me. Of course I don’t know where exactly Jesus lies along the continuum of real live person to fictional/mythical and don’t think anyone else can say either. What really bothers me (as I always like to point out) is that authorities talk as if they do know, which implicitly or explicitly misleads people – not only about Jesus’ existence, but about his supposed divinity.

Something else I’ve heard from authorities is that people claiming to be the Messiah was a fairly common phenomenon around the time of Jesus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants. Jews, wanting a way out from Roman rule, were hoping an “anointed one” (the Hebrew meaning of “messiah”) to deliver them, based on biblical prophecies. “Jesus” was a very common name back then too, so there could have been (note my deliberate use of the conditional “could”) more than one of these messiahs who were named Jesus.

As far as I can tell, respected scholars do not dispute this, however, I’ve not noticed that they are taking any kind of a public stand on it, in contrast to their willingness to speak publicly about their agreement on Jesus’ existence.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary (from historians who are not also Christian apologists), please let me know.

Arminius – regarding Socrates, I'm anxious to hear Mr Marks response.

Jacob Josevz;
You are really losing it,you nutjob.
Get a grip.You should be kicked off these threads.

REMEMBER: Voting for HilLlary Clinton, is same as re-Voting for Prez B. Clinton.

This is 'illegal' , aka PROXY President by Nepotism! Presidential 'Term-Limits' are being violated. Do not be Stupid! The Communist have infiltrated Sweet Sweet U.S.A's Government of 'THE PEOPLE!

So, Please do not vote for 'Hillary & Bill Clinton! Thank You!

IMPORTANT , Sweet Sweet America:

A Russian Communist Conspiracy in Sweet Sweet America "i" now EXPOSED!

HARK Humates of America!:

BEWARE:

Senator 'Chuck Schumer' (of N.Y., a 'Senior Senator) is been "BRIBED' by the RUSSIAN-INTERNATIONAL-MAFIA! Example:

He, Mr. Schumer et al, via "L*U*K OIL" got money from them, (via ex-'GETTY gas station(s) moguls, now turned "Russian Mafia Government Front" as Owners in America. Please call FBI & CIA!] and of Which "Chucky-Boy' Senator SCHUMER promoted , knowingly in such a great 'COMMY' Conspiracy!

Forgive me, but it is true!!!!!!!!!!

ATT: You get pais per "CLICK' , then pay 'US' [free Spirited Bloggers] for Stealing OUR ideas/Writings!

Note: You must Post [ALL & not SENSORED] or repost {hours of WORK (free, but NO more!) thinking & typing) what You-Failed to post. There was No Cuseses. Everything was acoording to 'YOUR' rules, not mine.

Yes, 34,000 people a year in AMERICA , the sweet, comit Suicide. So Better they Volunteer for Army & die Protecting the great REPUBLIC & FEDERATION of "Space-Ship" Planet EARTH against SuperStupidStitious Pre-Apocalyptic BIBLIO, QURANO, GEETAO, MANIACS.

WE "i"nellegent "i"ntellectuals "i"ndividuals. aka, HUMATES (not Humans, as JOKTANIAN, not PELEGIAN,Sporades (Wom) & Mavorites (Man)) Live on space-Ship Earth! aka S.S. GAIA, S.S. GEOID, S.S. TELLUSng Something instead!!

So please post ALL that you have sieved/selected & sensored! Not jus "i", but many many Bloggers!

NOTICE: "NEWS-WEEK" & WASHINGTON POST & CO, et al,;

IT is about your ten 'FACE's. not about our one honest Face's!

You will be sued , in 'Class' like, in Federal Court very very Soon!

not just "i" , but to many you say,

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"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blol owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blol owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blol owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blol owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blol owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been recei