All Comments (126)

Attn: Censors. This is the third time I've posted this. You have my email, explain to me why this is supposedly worse that much of the rest that's posted. Or is it the fact that I've directly responded to others, rather than just ranting, that bothers the post?

outlawtorn103 (April 11, 2008 2:10 PM):

"What makes that Muslims in those countries different" is that the dictatorships in the countries didn't want the protests to happen and the citizenry knows what happens if they disagree. Riots happened in Western countries, with a foundation of freedom abused by Islam, and in selected Muslim countries where the "riots" just happened to only occur at Western diplomatic buildings.

"Muslims in the West didn't riot" Were you reading the news at all? Riots existed all over Western Europe.

"This isn't a conflict of Christianity and Islam." That's correct, it's a conflict between Islam and every other religion, not just Christianity.

"There are far greater factors in the world presently than religion in determining why certain events are occuring." Yes, other events. However, to claim that global riots occurred specifically and openly about religion fit your rationalizations is foolish at best.

Meanwhile, you still can't point me to one large gathering of Muslims peacefully protesting for an end the the riots and an acceptance of free speech. Nor can you address that the OIC rejected the UDHR.

You're an apologist for jihad. Whether through ignorance or intent is still unknown.

Catholicism and Islam are both false religions. The only bridge they can build is to perdition.

Ideological Warfare and Conversations on Faith

Christmas 1914.

Hypocrite #1.

I would like to pose a challenge to all of our panelists at the On Faith panel. I am not sure that it is possible, but I will wager on hope. Could each panelist, across the spectrum, chose the religious or "secularist" leader, thinker, or writer with whom they disagree the most, and write a column of appreciation, or even better, one that does not seek to condemn, instruct, correct, disprove, “save,” or otherwise manipulate them? Appreciation is a bad word, it might suggest endorsement – perhaps I should say gratitude – gratitude not for their actions or "influence" -- but for the existence, for the jarring presence, of that opposing, erroneous, draconian, heretical, or deluded other.

I doubt it is possible; heretics must burn and tyrants must be deposed (and hung, too).

But if we dare demonstrate even a hypothetical love for such a person, something like the care that a writer shows to his antagonist, the chosen Svridigalov or Iago of our particular faith-and-culture narrative – the writer that labors to endow the twisted soul and mind with a human, suffering, sacred face. It would be better than hagiography, it would be something like mercy.

We would show respect for another being not for any because – not because they expose the right opinions or waive our respective banners, but for their mere fact of their being – not because they support us, or advance our cause, or embody justice and right, or are orthodox, or holy, or progressive or anti-liberal… not because they make us or our own feel justified… But perhaps we can, for a space, be novelists or poets, and love with the stupid, heretical, willfully forgetful love that I hope that God shows to us: a mother’s wanton love.

That mother’s love can embrace both her innocent child, and the child that is evil, and will work with all her power to protect the one from the other. Nevertheless, she desires rest for both, and as they rest she endows each with a kiss. One will be a prophet, a John the Baptist, and the other a Pharisee or Judas. So as we do as we are called to do – speak truth to power and pursue justice and truth – let us also try to from time to practice a mother’s love, whether to the pope, or to his many worthy, impassioned, and sincere critics.

Prof Brooks Thistlethwaite,

You, like a chorus of other pundits, have entirely (and perhaps deliberately) at this point misunderstood the Holy Fathers Regensburg address. Did you read it? Did you even take note of the clarifications that followed?

The Holy Father's "inflammatory remarks" were quotations from a 600 year old source with whom the Holy Father EXPLICITLY DISAGREED. It is either sheer illiteracy, wilfull blindness, or deliberate slander that allows the myth of his "inflammatory Regensburg remarks" to continue unabated.

In your piece, you wrote,

"“We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another,” [the Pope] said. The Pope seems to think that he and Mr. Allam had previously been “in opposition to one another,” merely because they were not of the same faith. That “opposition” has disappeared, apparently, simply through the sacrament of baptism into the Catholic faith."

You miss a logical possibility implied even in your quotation of the Holy Father. Perhaps the Pope thought that before Allam's baptism, the two stood "alongside one another." That IS the other half of "We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," isn't it?

And actually, yes, we Catholics believe - shocking to a mainline or evangelical Protestant - that the sacraments actually DO things. They are not mere symbols. Baptism purges sin and incorporates the baptized into the Body of Christ, a metaphysical condition which he objectively lacked before. St. Paul said that in Christ there is no Jew nor Gentile. In Christ, all things are reconciled. Modernists are trying to bring all things together independently of Christ. That, from the admittedly confusing and difficult apocalyptic literature of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures is a mark of the anti-Christ.

As for the baptism of Magdi Allam - ought the Bishop of Rome NOT to have baptized a Roman who came seeking the sacrament?

When everyone makes a great deal of hoopla over the baptism of Allam as a sign of the Catholic Church's intolerance, it would be nice to remember that if Mr. Allam returns to almost any Muslim country, he will certainly be murdered for his conversion, either by unrestrained mob action or by the government itself.

What bridges might the imams and ayatollahs have to build, Prof. Brooks Thistlewaite?

It has been determined by scientific analysis that there is plenty much room on the nebol bridge to accommodate every faith's road block. The Vatican has graciously agreed to allow others besides themselves to collect toll on the road to heaven. The word "ecumenical" is used to describe this condition.

Warning: your toll must be paid before you die. Those who have not paid their toll in full will be fed to the critter varmint that lives on the nebol bridge and eaten all gone to be gone forever and ever more.

Never forget, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man, (general case of person) to get past the roadblock on the nebol bridge."

Nancy Wakeman:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the leader of the Catholic Church was able to set an example of looking for the commonalities in those who strive to be people of God rather than focusing on the differences? What a gift that would be to others, especially to young people on the beginning of their faith journey.

Nope. Only if he is supposed to believe he has devoted his life to just another "flavor of the month religion". He is the leader on earth of the Roman Catholic Church.

Asim (April 12, 2008 5:16)

Denial is not logic or fact.

That you deny the long and documented history of jihad as a core component of Islam doesn't make it disappear. Referenced history, both ancient and new, often documents by proud jihadist Muslims continue to prove its centrality.

Rev. Hank Bates,

To characterize as inappropriate the pope baptizing a Muslim on Easter is unbelievable! Easter is when, traditionally, new converts are received into the church. This was nothing special and inflammatory for one guy; to receive a Muslim into the church at another time would've been pandering to the extremists by going against our tradition.

To the poster who castigated B-16 for his membership in Hitler Youth: he had no choice. Hitler Youth membership was a requirement.

To Aisha: Let me get this straight, not only do you not have a grasp of how to disengage caps lock on your keyboard, but we're unreasonably prejudiced? I don't know where you grew up, or where you live now; I presume either in the US or Canada. In the US, the tradition is for newcomers to adapt to the society that pre-exists their presence; that means participating in society by learning English, mixing with others, and adopting the dress of your new country.

Before you get angry at those statements, keep in mind that Muslims are not the first immigrants to these shores if you're in the US or Canada and our grandparents cast off the traditions of their homes, learned English and became part of society. Nobody asked for special treatment which Muslims are now doing. Nobody demanded for society to adapt to their norms, instead of adapting to the norms of society, which Muslims are now doing.

Controversy is created when people demand that their religious views be adopted by society in general in a secular society. If you're in the US, get over yourself. Sharia law is not going to go mainstream. Men who beat and rape women will be jailed for it. Bigamists will be prosecuted.

Your other choice is to make like the Orthodox Jews and have a parallel society for those who choose not to participate in mainstream society. Orthodox retain their traditional dress, some Ortohdox work in mainstream society, but they manage to always fulfil their religious needs without demanding that the majority also adopt their dietary restrictions or provide public accommodation for religious needs, which, in case you don't know about the constitution, is illegal. More lawsuits will follow. Praise the ACLU.

Aren't there also bridges to be built from the other side, among the many Islamic leaders, governmental and religious, who currently do not allow persons of other faiths to worship, share their faith or even have houses of worship in many Islamic countries? These seem like far bigger barriers than any that may have been erected by the pope to date.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the leader of the Catholic Church was able to set an example of looking for the commonalities in those who strive to be people of God rather than focusing on the differences? What a gift that would be to others, especially to young people on the beginning of their faith journey.

so are Sun Venus and Sirius, Father Son and Holy Spirit?

if Sun is the Lamp in the Hand of Jupiter, what about Saturn then? is it the golden ring above the head of Saint?

Ratatouille is a cooked dish made with vegetables such as tomatoes, onions, aubergines, courgettes, and peppers.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEvrvMjp1E4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHqC-JbcYBE

so where is the land of animals from water to land? Anadolu? lets go on in West of Anadolu with Aphrodite and Who Commune.

so is there thesis, anti-thesis, syn-thesis? is this father, son, holy spirit? lets see.

Anti was the ferryman who carried Isis to Set's island in Egyptian mythology. there are Sisters also.

In Norse mythology, Syn is goddess, who guards the doors of the hall and shuts them against those who are not to enter.

and we didnt talk about the shining shield "educated personality" of Scandinavian God and the Goddess with Thousand Snakes on the Head, where snake is known with healing.

thanks Rick.

Bush : Bee Ush, Bee Usher

there were animals on board of the ship with seeds and fruits to eat. is Bush a plant grown on the Ship?

if Moses was Bush in Fire on the Top of the Mountain, then is Noah Busher in Ark on the top of the mountain? the case is water dried, as in Euphrates River in Mesopotamia, to be dried to get the gold, in the Elbow in Mageddo, and the whole arm also.

then if MAry is Compassion and the Lighthouse is for the ship on the sea, then who is the Island with trees? Christ? is this "from water to land" in the Evolution for the animals in the Ark?

the text below from Eckhart Tolle, is related with AL KINDI in BAghdat, i quote here especially for philosophy.

"The greatest achievement of humanity is not the achievements of its art, science or technology, but rather the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness.

To recognize ones own insanity is of course the arising of sanity, the beginning of healing and transcendence. A new dimension of consciousness had begun to arise on the planet, the first tentative flowering.

Those three individuals then spoke to their contemporaries. They spoke of sin, of suffering, of delusion. They said, “Look how you live, see what you are doing, the suffering you create.” They then pointed to the possibility of awakening from the collective nightmare of normal human existence. They showed the way.

Teachings that pointed the way beyond the dysfunction of the human mind, the way out of the collective insanity, were distorted and became themselves part of the insanity.

They could make themselves right and others wrong and thus define their identities through their enemies, the others, the nonbelievers or wrong believers, who not infrequently they saw themselves justified in killing. Man made god in his own image. The eternal, the infinite, the un-nameable was reduced to a mental idol that you must believe in and worship as my god or our god."

A New Earth – Excerpt

By Eckhart Tolle //

The Arising New Consciousness //

Most ancient religions and spiritual traditions share the common insight that our normal state of mind is marred by a fundamental defect. However, out of this insight into the nature of the human condition, we may call it the bad news, arises a second insight, the good news of the possibility of the radical transformation of human consciousness. In Hindu teachings, and sometimes Buddhism also, this transformation is called enlightenment. In the teachings of Jesus it is called salvation. In Buddhism it is called the end of suffering. Liberation and awakening are other terms used to describe this transformation. //

The greatest achievement of humanity is not the achievements of its art, science or technology, but rather the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness. In the distant past, this recognition already came to a few individuals. The man called Gautama Siddhartha, who lived 2600 years ago in India, was perhaps the first who saw it with absolute clarity. Later, the title of Buddha was conferred upon him. Buddha means the awakened one. //

At about the same time, another of humanity’s early awakened teachers emerged in China. His name was Lao Tzu. He left the record of his teachings in one of the most profound spiritual books ever written, the Daodejing (Tao Te Ching). //

To recognize ones own insanity is of course the arising of sanity, the beginning of healing and transcendence. A new dimension of consciousness had begun to arise on the planet, the first tentative flowering. //

Those three individuals then spoke to their contemporaries. They spoke of sin, of suffering, of delusion. They said, “Look how you live, see what you are doing, the suffering you create.” They then pointed to the possibility of awakening from the collective nightmare of normal human existence. They showed the way. //

The world was not yet ready for them, and yet they were a vital and necessary part of human awakening. Inevitably, they were mostly misunderstood by their contemporaries, as well as by subsequent generations. Their teachings, although both simple and powerful, became distorted and misinterpreted. Over the centuries many things were added that had nothing to do with the original teachings, but were the reflections of a fundamental misunderstanding. Some of the teachers were ridiculed, reviled or killed. Others came to be worshipped as gods. Teachings that pointed the way beyond the dysfunction of the human mind, the way out of the collective insanity, were distorted and became themselves part of the insanity. //

And so religions, to a large extent, became divisive rather than unifying forces. Instead of bringing about an end to violence and hatred, through realization of the wonders of all life, they brought more violence and hatred, more divisions between people as well as divisions between different religions, and even within the same religion. They became ideologies, or belief systems people could identify with and so use them to enhance their false sense of self. They could make themselves right and others wrong and thus define their identities through their enemies, the others, the nonbelievers or wrong believers, who not infrequently they saw themselves justified in killing. Man made god in his own image. The eternal, the infinite, the un-nameable was reduced to a mental idol that you must believe in and worship as my god or our god. //

[The Arab/Israeli conflict will only be resolved by the coming awakening of the human race that will transcend these petty religious hatreds and focus on the truly important issues facing us, like global hunger and population control.]

A poster asked: "Give the Holy Father the credit he deserves as a true messenger of God; something that this country was one day based upon - WHAT HAPPENED???"

Some people woke up and saw the popes, preachers and priests for what they were; self promoting
predators.

In light of their historical antipathy for the fundamental rights of people and their propensity to censor, torture and burn anyone who disagrees with the word brought by themselves as "god's messengers", the people of the United States rejected preacher, priest cleric, pope ,shaman and witch doctor and the "morality" [heh heh] their actions define, as it pertains to the protection of their natural rights.

"WHAT HAPPENED" to the "morality" of a church that condones and abets the buggery of altar boys and gives safe harbor to one of the major Cardinal criminals.

Temple of Ephesus is in British Museum. there is a team in Brasil where people so short play football. in Ephesus is Hipopotamus "short-man eater". there is a big problem in press and media. and President of Russia is too short.

and Russia made reservations for 50% of Mediterranean REgion for this summer "turks shall not be able to come to Mediterranean region", this was a news. as far as i learned Turks are a word for Jews, according to Churchill. and "keeping the head in sand" is a word for religious people, other than ostrich, now i learned.

i shall study NO RESERVATIONS, and also astronomy, the movie for Caterin' at John's, and with Pillar (Venus) to Cater. i shall write poems with planets, that is all.

www.classicsnetwork.com/showcreativeprint.asp?IDNo=1234

is there any relation with Harry Potter and pottery, that is china, and Anadolu, that is the land of pottery and Olimpiads of Greek Mythology. Anadolu is known as the land of Celts also.

the dress of authress of Harry Potter series had fallen down her right breast, saved by her sponsor.

Asim, then how do you explain this:

http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/itl/chron.html

Finally!! A Pope that listens to Jesus, who said that He is THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER! How can the Catholic Catechism say that the plan for salvation also includes the Muslims?? That just boggles my mind!!

Interfaithism is exactly what Satan wants!! Read Revelation about the false prophet (i.e. a future Pope??)

One must have the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. The books of Timothy are tenderhearted letters of a man to his son on the eve of his death for the cause of Christ! Beautifully written and the depth astounding. The prophesy accurate. The conviction regarding Christ being the ONLY way, the love Jesus has for his New Testament Bride (without need of a vicar LOL) clear.
Come to think of it, funny how the Apostle Paul NEVER spoke of a need to have ANY man put himself in the place of Christ Jesus, and more importantly said of himself (as a rejection of silly catholic doctrine), the Apostle Paul said of himself, "...imitate ME (Paul) as I imitate Christ..."

Second Reminder to WP,

Why does it take two days to post a comment???

And why no response?? Such delays don't enhance the debate.

Michelle,

Actually, most contemporary NT exegetes believe after exhaustive research that the epistles to Titus (and Timothy) were not written by Paul but by "wannabee" Pauls. See Father Ray Brown's analyses in his 878 page book, An Introduction to the New Testament pp. 639, 654, 673,
an excerpt:

"Authenticity: Probably written by a disciple of Paul or a sympathetic commentator of the Pauline heritage several decades after the apostle's death. "

See also Professors Crossan and Reed's book, In Search of Paul and Professor Bruce Chilton's book, Rabbi Paul.

As a side note:

And Paul (or his "wannabees") could not even get the timing of Jesus' second coming correct but it did serve to dramatically increase both the conversion rate and the coffers. Hmmm, contemporary popes/preachers/fortune tellers/Mormon "profiteers" still use that con game.

The Pope is bishop of nothing. If the Catholic religion needs a vicar in place of Christ doesn't that mean the Catholic is without Christ on this planet? How sad and tragic for the hundreds of millions of lost souls.

Asim:

Anything to say about the racist Iranian state from which Jews who had lived for centuries were deported? The racist Egyptian state? The racist Syrian state? The racist Saudi state? And so on....

There are three million of us in exile from our native lands. Three million Jews. Jew is spelled with a capital letter, as you know. So, how will we play this? Jews and Muslims? Or muslims and Jews?

Your move.

Michelle, The Treasury Dept doesn't teach those in the counterfit dept how to spot a fake by making them study phoney bills. They make them study the REAL BILLS. Its the same marking the difference with TRUE Christianity and the phoney baloney's like Catholicism and Mormonism and Jehovahism and all the phoney "paths" to heaven. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, the only way to Heaven is through Him. Study the Gospels, study the writtings of the Apostle Paul, Peter and John to know and understand the Lord Christ Jesus.

What the pope did was his Job. Please note that the Pope is also bishop of Rome and as such he gets to baptize high profile converts. Whether or not they used to be Islamic doesn't in general matter.

Asim, Asim, Asim,

What beyond the following do we need to know about Islam??

"Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty wingie thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Benedict is correct, and Biblical. In the book of Titus, the Apostle Paul encourages the younger Titus to "hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine, and refute those who oppose it". I am not a Catholic, but believe Benedict acted with truth and conviction.

Let's look at this from the other angle, what happens when a Christian decides to convert to Islam? The statement being made by that convert is certainly not "we are one big united religious family". If it were, why bother to 'convert'? Yes, Jesus Christ and Mohammed stand 'in opposition' to each other, and Jesus Christ came to earth precisely to bring truth about who God is, to people walking without light and without eternal hope. Does that mean that Christians dislike Muslims? -- quite the contrary. Jesus teaches us to love all persons, as he does, and which is why he endured the suffering he did. Does that mean we all hold hands, and say we really are all the same? -- quite the contrary. The greatest mark of respect to tell a person of a different faith that you a) you understand your own faith (for Christians that would mean you read and study the Scripture), and b) understand theirs (that means taking the time to learn the true tenets of their faith, and listen to them), and c) can have a respectful dialogue about where you oppose each other, without turning toward anger and hatred. Unlike the author, I accept Jesus' words that He is the "way, the truth and the life -- no one comes to the Father, except through Jesus". That puts my faith in Christ in opposition to those who truth in Mohammed to get them to Heaven. Sometimes that can be very uncomfortable, true. I have lived in Indonesia for many years. My dearest friends are Muslims. We love each other, and we disagree with each other. But, when I can be clear about what I believe, there isn't confusion. And, when I can listen to them, it means, we can respect each other. 'Oppose' is not a bad word. It can be a difficult word, yet an honest one. In most of the world, religious dialogue between faiths means spirited 'debate'. Most of the world doesn't shy away from that like Americans do. Persons of other faiths scratch their heads at vague notions of spirituality that is proclaimed by some American Christian denominations, that leaves them very confused about what 'Christianity' really means.

When Christians speak the truth in love, that builds up both the case Christians make for Christ, and the honest respect we have for Christ himself and why he came to earth. But in an interesting way, it also demonstrates to non-Christians that we know what our faith really means, have read the Scriptures, and really do have something to say that is spiritually convicting and meaningful. Having dialogue with other faiths is important and critical, having respect for their right to believe something different is essential. But vague talk about bridges that somehow unify religions is neither logical, nor does it show a true understand of what 'faith' really means.

The author seeks to build bridges, without really discussing differences, and accepting that Christianity and Islam are two major religions, that stand, yes, 'in opposition' to each other on what is the way to Heaven. The type of bridge the author is building seeks to blur the key theological differences that are at the core of the two faiths. I sure wouldn't suggest anyone be standing in the middle of the author's bridge with her, when the 'day of Christ' comes again, as Christ promises. Seems at that point, a person better be on solid ground, on the right side of her bridge.

Asim MA, San Antonio:

Some of the problem of getting posts to show up here is simply in the slowness of the WaPo system.

The rest of the problem is their filtering system. Especially at night, random posts will be blocked, no reason given. This is mostly due to WaPo's inane attempt to block other totally insane, bigoted, and generally sick posts by such as J--O--Z--E--V--Z.

WP,
why does it take so long to post a comment???????

David,
U know nothing about Isalm:just throwing a term or two to make u sound like u are an expert on Islam will not cut the cake-U are very simplistic and naive indeed.

The level of ignorance and the very naive and simplistic understanding of Islam by many of this forum is appalling-they just repeat and recycle the already over recycled media sensationalism and lies;from reading the comments here am confident that the contributors never read a translation of the Quran at all:take for example that "Islam is in oppostion to Christianity" alleagtion which is absolutely false-like judaism, Islam does not accept the concept of the trinity-but the Quran affords Jesus a very sacred and lofty status equal to Moses and Muhammad.The people of the book-Christians and jews-are held in higher regards-but it is the Crusaders,the Inquisition,colonialism,the creation of a racist jewish state on Muslim land and the destruction and occupation of IRaq and idiots like GW that cause all the friction-as well as never ending insults of the pope aginst Islam and Muslims which has become fashionable now days.

Those in this country with a 'Star Trek' mentality for the future really really worry me. Don't let things get really really bad and hopefully they don't own guns or work for the Post Office.

Non believers who ask silly questions are like a blind man in a dark room asking ANYONE to turn on the light! To answer the questions is a useless exercise with them. Ask Christ to prove to YOU that He is real. I pray He does. If He doesn't then EAT DRINK AND BE MERRY! Over the horizon its not looking good for you.

Its ironic that these two, Catholicism a.k.a. the pope and Islam are duking it out. Both religions are based on flawed doctrine.
If the Catholic church needs a vicor or representitive of Christ on earth then in essence they are saying they DO NOT have Christ. The are nothig more than a man made religion with traditions of men. Am I saying ALL Catholics are damned and going to hell? No. There are some in the Catholic church who are born again but the religion as a whole is horribly flawed and wicked in its abandonment of Christ. And I won't even get started on their elevation of Mary to almost godhood on par with Christ! They are no better than the cult of mormonism.
The Muslim religion has their flaw in their belief that Ishmael is the 'Promise Child' God spoke of to Abram. When in fact God told Abram, "Out of YOUR body shall your heir come." Now if the muslims believe what God said in the beginning concerning marriage that when a man marries a woman the two "shall become one flesh (or body)," then when God told Abram, "out of YOUR body shall come your heir," clealy God was talking about Sara NOT Hagar. The Arab religion is a wicked religion in that it condemns the righteous Israel much the same Cain condemned Able the first generation of Adam.

John Paul II built the bridge when it was not so fashionable. Now Pope Benedict is saying some bold comments and making bolder actions. Once the bridges have been built you use them. And when things are not Ok you say it. Islam have a problem with violence. It is in its DNA. It was through conquest that it affirms itself. Christianiy is the result of martirdom. Of course through the ages, the Church and the Christians have not lived up to the message of Christ. Nevertheless the dynamic of both religions are strikingly different. Now back to the Pope, today, journalists, politicians, etc, are afraid to tell Islam its problem with violence. The threats of a Fatwa is always present. The Pope is on the other hand very much in touch with the feelings of many Westerner that are let just down by their elites.

For many that visit these WaPo blogs, CTCNL repeated posts are becoming part of the decoration in the room. I don’t know if what he asserts has been seriously contested or commented, but if that was the case I missed it.

Somebody wants to comment?

1. Is there any proof that king David existed?
2. Was Jesus a descendant of king David? (if this king ever existed)
3. Was Abraham a real historic figure?
4. Was Moses mythical?
5. Is it true that Jesus was illiterate?
6. Is it true that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic?
7. Did Jesus steal the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer?
8. Was Mohammed womanizing, lust and greed-driven?

Peace and best wishes to all,

JAC

salam
talking about interfaith dialogue for me does not mean -as somebody thaught- to mix the tow religions together to get a new religion it means to me as a muslim to look for the commun points between us and to try to develop a beter understanding of each other and to learn to accept each other. and what the pope have said in his speech was unfortunetly going against this goal. on the other hand i dont see any wrong if the pope pabtize a muslim converted to christianty he made his choice to be a christian as many christians choose to be muslims, i have to note here that the majority of people who converts to islam in the west are cathlics because they dont find a lot of differnces between the tow religions.the most important thing for me is not to spread the seeds of discord between people and work to stop the polarisation, and i would like to invite people to learn about islam before giving any falls testemony( our prophet said: repeating everything you hear is enough to make you a liar). and to stop generalising because its almost a crime when you acuse more than 1.3 bilion Muslims for what has been done by a dozen of muslims , this irresponsible statments are justifing the killing of muslims as similar statments of some radicaland criminal muslims that allowed the 9/11 to happen. as the prophet Muhamed teach us we have to say good things or beter to stay silent because words kills and we are responsible for what we say. the prophet Muhamed teach us that there is no difference between who kills and who incite or justify the killing, we have to understand that every word we tell could be responsible for more innocent victims from both sides. this does not mean stop criticism but we have to be careful. and peace be upon you

Where is my comment? And why isn't it online? All these other comments have certainly come after mine.

The Pope's job isn't to "build bridges" with Islam. His job is to promote the Catholic Faith. I wouldn't expect him to soften his conviction anymore than I'd expect apples to taste more like oranges. Catholicism is what it is. Islam is what IT is. Let them be different. If that involves some conflict - so what? The problem is that we have this 60's generation that can't figure out if they support Diversity or Homogeneity. What she's proposing here is Homogeneity. I'm not Catholic. I have no intent on being Catholic. I can't afford all the statues. But I don't ask Catholics to stop being Catholics. We gave that nonsense up after the Inquisition.

Some thoughts on The pope's thought processes in regards to the examples provided by Ms T in what I find to a very perceptive and astute observation by her:

1. The pope is looking for a fight

2. The pope sees that the Islamic world probably has never been weaker in its history except in its infancy. He says give them a powerful final kick and finish his main adversary forever

3. The pope wants to prove that popes are fallible and finish this debate once and for all

4. The pope likes to focus on differences and create hostilitites rather than seek areas of convergence and friendship

This pope may be a smart politician, but charitable, humble open-minded he is not.

Bad news - Christianity and Islam are already anathema to each other. As long as Islam preaches violent conversion, the two can never peacefully coexist. Projected winner in this confrontation: Islam, whose adherents will take advantage of the Christian admonition to forgive and "turn the other cheek." In this case, however, Islam will stick a sword thru it.

This is interesting to note those who are by faith nonmuslim is a conversion from atheism to christianity due to marital or other benefit is no match of poeple converting to islam in west.
It is propaganda which differentiate between pious atitude to devilist act for worldy reason

I was pleased to see, that most others who read this article, like me, don't see anything wrong with the Pope's stance. Islam IS in opposition to Christianity and unless and until Christians of all denominations recognize this, we will continue to see the spread of this ideology and all people will live in danger from its extremists. People of faith who think that we have to be tolerant of all theologies don't understand the very basis of biblical teaching which is, there is only one way and that is through Jesus. Rev. Thistlethwaite's article is an example of liberal, humanism in the disguise of spirituality.

Given the quote, I don't understand the interpretation. If what he said is "no longer alongside or in opposition" how can that mean only in opposition? I read the quote as sometimes "alongside" and somtimes "in opposition" which is no different from the stance of all religions in relation to one another.
Ms. Thistlethwaite would do well to look at the intention of the Pope's remark and not read her agenda into it.

The fact that the Pope thinks that Islam and Christianity oppose each other doesn't say anything about Islam, but more about Christianity. The Qur'an states that Muslims and Christians are similar and respects Christianity. This attitude is opening and accepting of Christianity even though there are significant differences between the religion. And, I'm sure the Bible advocates acceptance of others as well. And, as I'm sure the Pope knows the Bible inside-out, it still seems like he doesn't understand it all. And, neither do people who have made comments about the religion of Islam due to the actions of a few. If we were to do that, then one can say Christianity is a religion of violence (Iraq didn't attack America, it was the other way around) and Japan didn't drop a bomb on America, and Vietnam didn't attack America, and on and on. We can continue to be like the Pope and attack each others' religions, or start to accept that we're different and work towards focusing on what we have in common-our humanity.

This post reminds me of another Thistlewaite post in which she claimed that the Latin Mass had been invented in the Reformation and was being used now to mask child abuse in the Church. Once again superficial analysis is combined with historical ignorance to deliver what essentially is an anti-Catholic polemic. She totally ignores the context of the Pope's remarks and manages to contradict herself in the same sentence by claiming that Magdi Allam was both a non-practicing Muslim and the most prominent Muslim in Italy. My advice is to confine such arguments to your seminary, where you might find a few credible takers, rather than in the pages of public newspaper.

Bridges to Islam??? Are you kidding??? Listen...Islamic Terror/Jihad Mentality is sweeping across the entire globe--in over 15 nations right now. This even includes China(!) who days ago just arrested a jihad group seeking to commit mass murder at the Olympics. China has a restless 19 million Islamic population. Anyone who thinks things will change by building "bridges" is up in the clouds. It is ISLAMIC regimes that continue to support jihad, both with cash and bodies. A year ago, on the front pages of nearly all major papers was the sad item of an Indonesian man who was sentenced to DEATH for the great crime of converting from Islam to Christianity. The problem, dear Brutus, IS Islam. This is not prejudice, it is fact. Islam is in a tailspin. Islam is more of a socio-politicial expansionist ideology than religion as the west knows it. Its goal is the imposition of Sharia law over the west. Democracy is anathema to its Koranic tenet of Theocracy being supreme. Benedict had the courage to say and do what is not "politically correct." But look at the situation in Europe, where previously liberal societies (France, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Norway) have increasingly dealth with real attacks or planned mass murder and pulled back Islamic immigration. No fatwas (Islamic mafia-style calls for assassination) of any Islamic terrorists--but plenty for Danish cartoonists, a world-class writer like Salman Rushdie and scores of other western individuals deemed "an enemy of Islam). Wake up--we are dealing with a totalitarian ideology, not really a religion--and not recognizing this is being asleep.........

Bridges to Islam??? Are you kidding??? Listen...Islamic Terror/Jihad Mentality is sweeping across the entire globe--in over 15 nations right now. This even includes China(!) who days ago just arrested a jihad group seeking to commit mass murder at the Olympics. China has a restless 19 million Islamic population. Anyone who thinks things will change by building "bridges" is up in the clouds. It is ISLAMIC regimes that continue to support jihad, both with cash and bodies. A year ago, on the front pages of nearly all major papers was the sad item of an Indonesian man who was sentenced to DEATH for the great crime of converting from Islam to Christianity. The problem, dear Brutus, IS Islam. This is not prejudice, it is fact. Islam is in a tailspin. Islam is more of a socio-politicial expansionist ideology than religion as the west knows it. Its goal is the imposition of Sharia law over the west. Democracy is anathema to its Koranic tenet of Theocracy being supreme. Benedict had the courage to say and do what is not "politically correct." But look at the situation in Europe, where previously liberal societies (France, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Norway) have increasingly dealth with real attacks or planned mass murder and pulled back Islamic immigration. No fatwas (Islamic mafia-style calls for assassination) of any Islamic terrorists--but plenty for Danish cartoonists, a world-class writer like Salman Rushdie and scores of other western individuals deemed "an enemy of Islam). Wake up--we are dealing with a totalitarian ideology, not really a religion--and not recognizing this is being asleep.........

I grew up in the Catholic faith. At one church my parents would attend on an infrequent basis the priest would go into some sort of homily regarding the Jews. They had been the enemies of Christ and were still a stumbling block to Christ. As a child I thought the priest was on the weird side. My parents usually attended French speaking churches. The mass was in Latin and the ordinary was in French. Even in English that particular priest would go on at length about the Jews. I can see how Father Coughlin was the norm not an aberation in the 1930's. Back in the 50's there still was a regular prayer in Catholic churches which admonished the Jews not to be stiff necked and convert to the true faith.
But,there was a good deal of ammunition for that priest's diatribes. Read the gospels. The canonical gospels are permeated with anti Jewish sentiments.
The same sentiment applied to Muslims. Read about the Reconquista in Medieval Spain. Muslims and Jews had to convert to the true faith or die or emigrate.
Pope Benedict's views are similiar. The obstacles can be removed by conversion to the true faith. Sort of like assimilation by the Borg. All problems and discord will cease once everyone assimilates to the Borg.

uhm...correct me if i am wrong, but islam and christianity are supposed to be in opposition of one other. one believes that jesus christ is God, and the other does not. what bridge needs to be built here? does anybody read the Bible anymore? if these two religions are combined, then wouldn't that deviate from both the Q'ran and The Bible? This need to bridge religions is so strange.

Another Ivory Tower "intellectual" talking out of her backside. Islam was ALWAYS in opposition to Christianity. Benedect XVI is only pointing out the reality.

Reason is what you believe because of evidence.
Faith is what you believe without evidence.

Idiocy is what you believe in the face of evidence, like God created the world a few thousand years ago or Islam is a religion of peace (toward others.)