The temptation to empire is the temptation to persecute freedom, especially religious freedom, rather than respect and honor it.
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June 23, 2008 1:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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June 23, 2008 1:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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June 2, 2008 7:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 2, 2008 19:01
Obama’s efforts to connect to the Republican Party, specifically Bush, and Dick Chaney, of the Halliburton Company, dates back to the Presidents Grandfather, Prescott Bush, and indeed Chaney was once an executive officer of Halliburton.
The American military pounds Iraq with Artillary, bombs, and the like, destroying large sections of cities, and infra-structures, then Halliburton comes in to rebuild. Halliburton and Halliburton associated companies have raked in ten’s of billions.
Obama is just like the BIG HALIBURTAN. Haliburton has contracted to build detention centers in the U.S. similiar to the one in Quantanammo Bay, Cuba. Halliburton does nothing to earn the Two Dollars for each meal an American Serviceman in Iraq eats.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
Halliburton was scheduled to take control of the Dubai Ports in The United Arab Emiirate. The deal was canceled when Bush was unable to affect the transfer of the American Ports.
Now we see what some might suspect as similiar financial escapading from the Democrats.
Two years ago, Iraq’s Ministry of Electricity gave a $50 million contract to a start-up security company - Companion- owned by now-indicted businessman (TONY REZKO) Tony Rezko and a onetime Chicago cop, Daniel T. Frawley, to train Iraqi power-plant guards in the United States. An Iraqi leadership change left the deal in limbo. Now the company, Companion Security, is working to revive its contract.
Involved along with Antoin “Tony” Rezco, long time friend and neighbor of Democratic Presidential hopeful Barack Obama, and former cop Daniel T. Frawley, is Aiham Alsammarae. Alsammarae was accused of financial corruption by Iraqi authorities and jailed in Iraq last year before escaping and returning here.
LIKE FATHER LIKE SON --
Recently, Obama's campaign staff have been vetted by the IRS to disclose his connection to the criminal money generating underworld. Besides, his connections to the REZCO MAFIA types, his up-coming tax fraud charges — Obama needs to disclose why he is a MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" and disclose Obama's MUSLIM Farrakhan mob connection to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Its minister, and Obama's spiritual adviser, is the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. Every year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year, it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan and Chicago's Trinity United Church are trumpeting Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second coming of the messiah. Obama should stop suppoting our intervention in IRAQ. It’s time to introduce this false, fake Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke "GLORK" Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek. He is MAD!!! --
OBAM YOU'RE NO JFK --
"GLORK" Obama looks like Alfred E. Newman: "Tales Calculated To Drive You." He is a MUSLIM "Glork" He's MAD!!! Alfred E. Neuman is the fictional mascot of Mad. The face had drifted through American pictography for decades before being claimed by Mad editor Harvey Kurtzman after he spotted it on the bulletin board in the office of Ballantine Books editor Bernard Shir-Cliff, later a contributor to various magazines created by Kurtzman.
Obama needs to disclose why he is a MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" and stop suppoting our intervention in IRAQ. It’s time to introduce this false, fake "GLORK" Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek.
Michelle Obama should be ashamed.
"GLORK" Michelle Obama should be ashamed of her separatist-racist connection to Farrakhan and Chicago's Trinity United Church trumpeting Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second coming of the messiah. If Michelle Obama new what her husband -- the Hope-A-Dope, Fonster Monster -- Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama did in Harlem, she would wash her wide-open, Hus-suey loving MUSILM mouth out, with twenty-four (24) mule-team double-cross X-boX-BorraX. He is a MUSLIM "Glork" It’s time to introduce this false, fake "GLORK" Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek. He's MAD!!!
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
March 18, 2008 1:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 18, 2008 13:19
The problem with the speech was the fact that Obama made two explicit references to his candidacy for the office of President, thus turning a portion of his speech into a campaign speech.
Per "”IRS Investigation: A Test Of Church’s Faith?”" by Davida Foy Crabtree of the UCC, "To avoid any hint of endorsement or promotion, our national officers and our denominational attorney established clear understandings with Sen. Obama’s office in Washington. He readily agreed to all of them. We made it clear not only to his campaign staff but also to our own synod delegates and visitors that no advocacy or promotion of his candidacy would be permitted."
However, this is but one excerpt from Obama's speech that went against what he promised the UCC as described above:
"Our conscience cannot rest so long as nearly 45 million Americans don’t have health insurance and the millions more who do are going bankrupt trying to pay for it. I have made a solemn pledge that I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family’s premiums by up to $2500 a year. That’s not simply a matter of policy or ideology – it’s a moral commitment."
March 12, 2008 2:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 12, 2008 02:57
Our pastor atttended the conference in Hartford. He noted that in addition to Sen. Obama, speakers included Lynne Redgrave and Bill Moyers. He noted the Senator’s remarks did not concern politics.
He did state there were some campaign tables but they were well outside the conference facilities and were on public sidewalks.
This would all seem to be well outside the IRS scrutiny.
As tax time does draw near for many Americans, these controversies are also reminiscent of Christ's Tax Return itself as noted by that First Century CPA Saint Matthew, in The Gospel According to Saint Matthew 17:24-27 .
'... "What do you think, Simon?" he asked. "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes - ”from their own sons or from others?"
"From others," Peter answered.'
Peter and Jesus had to go fishing for their tax money.
Maybe this time it is the IRS which has nothing to do but fish.
:-)
March 5, 2008 8:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 5, 2008 20:23
Fear of the Other governs so much of what we see today. Obama is not Jesus. He is a human being blessed with intelligence and the gift to inspire. Even his enemies that stone and curse him, pray that he succeeds. America needs him so.
March 3, 2008 8:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 3, 2008 20:50
Jeff Johnston of Morton IL Community United Church of Christ should relax, have a nother cheeseburger and quit blindly defending the United Church of Christ. How smart is he to tell you not to visit a web site but then list the URL? Sounds like he might be working for UCCtruths.
March 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 3, 2008 16:13
Here is an example of how the Clinton campaign uses the church venue for some real "politickin".
Compare it to Obama's UCC speech and you will see the difference.
From the NYT 2/28/08
"... Laura Richardson, a black freshman congresswoman from California who was unapologetic about her support for Mrs. Clinton. Ms. Richardson said she found that many voters had doubts about Mr. Obama’s job readiness but were embarrassed to say so.
“People need to hear that it’s O.K. to choose the best-qualified person,” she said, “and that they don’t have to feel ashamed or be guilty about that.”
With that in mind, she breezed into Sanctuary Baptist Church here on Sunday, Bible in hand, and stood in front of 100 parishioners. She spoke of Mrs. Clinton’s credentials, the importance of ending the war in Iraq and the urgency of electing a president who “doesn’t need a couple of years getting up to speed.”
The crowd appeared unmoved.
Then, as the tease of an organ signified that it was time to wrap up, Ms. Richardson made a final appeal.
“I’m going to challenge you to go home and pray about it, and ask God who would be best for us at this time,” she said. “Let’s trust God to lead us to who that person should be.”
I wonder if the IRS will investigate the church this Clinton worker used to try to get votes for HRC. Shameless!!!!
February 28, 2008 6:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 18:22
Friends,
It has become clear that the IRS complaint against the United Church of Christ is the work of a waggish, negative website operated by a disgruntled former United Church of Christ member named James Hutchens. Hutchens has long been a regular poster under his own name and various pseudonyms at the discussion boards at UCC.org. A few years ago he began to blog incessantly on his own website UCCTruths.blogspot.com.
I urge you not to go to the website the same way I would encourage anyone I care about not to dive into a pool of liquid fertilizer. However, a link to a pdf file containing the original IRS complaint that was filed back in August appears on the website's front page!
For the sake of truth and justice, I would encourage you to forward this to three to five people. The truth needs to get out there.
Thanks,
Jeff Johnston
a concerned UCC pastor from Illinois
February 28, 2008 5:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 17:50
Robert said:
"Here's a thought. Abolish all tax exemptions for churches (including the Scientologists and all those Jihadi mosques) and let them invite whomever they'd like to speak."
The Church of Satan agrees. It's the only church that voluntarily pays taxes and thinks all other churches should do the same.
February 28, 2008 11:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 11:40
If all a political candidate has to do in speaking at a church function is to utter one sentence referring to his campaign (which is about all that is alleged against Obama), then no church is ever safe in allowing anyone who happens to be a candidate to speak in any circumstance. This is very chilling. Especially when selectively or whimsically enforced, which certainly is the appearance here.
Atty Charles Watkins (above) could perhaps tell us the principle of "de minimus". Can one word or sentence in a long speech make it a prohibited political/partisan speech?
I was also at the UCC Synod that day. Like another commenter above, I was a little disappointed in the Obama speech, specifically because I thought he was so extremely careful NOT to include references to the current political environment. In contrast, earlier we had heard a true stemwinder, call to action speech from Bill Moyers. Bush & co. would have a lot more to fear if we followed Moyers' direction!
I am tempted by the argument that religious organizations should not be tax exempt, thus removing state leverage over the church. We should not expect the feds to subsidize the church. Good policy in principle, hard in practice!
February 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 11:38
The letter from Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is an interesting response to the IRS investigation of the UCC. There can be no doubt that her comments questioning the validity of the action of the IRS are on the mark. The hands of a paranoid idealogue and his cohorts are clearly seen in this action.
However, her assessment of the speech as "an insightful, even luminous glimpse into the fundamental human dilemma of the search for meaning and purpose in life" is a bit much. I, too, was present for his speech and came away profoundly disappointed in the lack of real substance in what he had to say. His speech was, in fact, snippets of speeches he had given many times before with a bit of "church language" interspersed here and there. He and/or his speech writers should have done better for a major speech to his beloved UCC church.
All of us UCCers are proud of Obama's accomplishments and many of us feel that he has great things to contribute to our country in the years ahead, perhaps even as President. However, Ms. Thistlethwaite's assessment of that speech in Hartford does not accurately reflect what was, for many of us, a disappointing experience.
February 28, 2008 9:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 09:53
Normal republican response to an open and honest individual, attack everyone around him, in hopes of isolating Barack.
I am sure Mr. Obama is prepared for these normal forms of harassment under the guise of a government that cares about the people.
Do what you always do, and you get what you always get, except in this instance the outcome is not controlled by republican forces alone, a democratic congress and eventually a democratic president will stop the personal use of the federal government by the republican party, essentially using the white house to go above the law.
This attach by the republican's shows they will not change, can not change, and still feel the same about minorities; Black's in particular, others in generalities.
Patrick
February 28, 2008 9:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 09:02
Normal republican response to an open and honest individual, attack everyone around him, in hopes of isolating Barack.
I am sure Mr. Obama is prepared for these normal forms of harassment under the guise of a government that cares about the people.
Do what you always do, and you get what you always get, except in this instance the outcome is not controlled by republican forces alone, a democratic congress and eventually a democratic president will stop the personal use of the federal government by the republican party, essentially using the white house to go above the law.
This attach by the republican's shows they will not change, can not change, and still feel the same about minorities; Black's in particular, others in generalities.
Patrick
February 28, 2008 9:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 09:01
Where was the IRS during the 2000 and 2004 elections when every church affiliated with James Dobson, Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson was encouraging congregants to vote for Bush?
February 28, 2008 8:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 08:54
I can't think of a faster, louder way for the people of the U.S. to learn of the Christian based faith of the candidate Obama than to have the IRS do such a high profile investigation. If the administration is doing this to smear the candidate it may well have the opposite effect.
The IRS has investigated right wing churches, but usually for mis-reporting of income. The Bakers' and Jerry Falwell's were both were investigated and both had made unabashed politically pointed statements.
The IRS is seldom high in the popularity poll. and the timing on this is highly suspicious. Of late the treasury seems to be increasingly political. It might be seen as a vehicle to get money out to control political thought and actions by investigation and granting of preferential status. I am reminded of the per child distribution just before the last election and now the promised economic stimulus distribution when the perhaps under-regulated market collapsed that also comes out near an election.
February 28, 2008 8:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 08:24
Susan,
I am a Democrat but:
1) IRS takes along time to investigate.
2) Don't you think this is inappropriate now for the Church to post the speech.
3) Isn't this what the left had been complaining about in 2004?
February 28, 2008 8:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 08:08
It is indeed a sad commentary on the state of our times that an investigation is initiated by the IRS
nine months after Obama's speech when it becomes clear that he is leading the race to the Democratic nomination.What is worrying us is that what and who in IRS would prompt that august body to take such a decision.Do we see here the unseen hand of someone?
February 28, 2008 7:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 07:45
Here's a thought. Abolish all tax exemptions for churches (including the Scientologists and all those Jihadi mosques) and let them invite whomever they'd like to speak. And to the author, your denial of political activity is somewhat belied by your Obama gushing, without which you could have made your case in half the time and spared me a blood sugar attack.
February 28, 2008 7:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 07:16
Convoluted article.
February 28, 2008 3:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 03:42
Bush used churches as actual campaign outposts, and traded "faith-based" hard cash for member address lists.
The IRS is going after Obama's church because he spoke there?
A sign the Bushists will pull out every nasty trick in the book.
http://scorpionbowl.blogspot.com
February 28, 2008 3:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 03:31
The WaPo homepage link I misread as a prelude to a misreading of Obama, so I'm all the more grateful to have read what is actually a defense of his right to speak and ours to hear. Ms. Thistlethwaite is never less than cool-headed yet passionate, high-minded and grounded, so I might have known she'd be on the side of truth.
February 28, 2008 3:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 03:23
here is the video of the speech.
www.ucc.org/synod/video-archive.html
February 28, 2008 2:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 02:29
He was talking to members of his church. Have you spoken in church? I blend life work/personal/faith when I speak to the congregation. It is not separate. . . wait. stop. this isn't important. This is what God wanted to happen. Spread the words to the people via reading his message and some will "hear" God speaking and heed his words.
February 28, 2008 2:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 02:27
One follow-up comment:
Sen. Obama's speech was internally inconsistent. On the one hand, he excoriated the Christian Coalition for making tax cuts for the rich its No. 1 priority, and mocked them by saying he couldn't find that policy in his Bible.
At the same time, he promised that when he became President, one of his first acts would be to sign universal health care legislation. Pardon moi! Where is THAT in the Bible? While caring for the poor is a Biblical value, there are lots of ways to do that, and the Bible certainly doesn't mandate the type of program Sen. Obama is promoting.
February 28, 2008 2:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 02:13
I'm a tax lawyer who is representing two tax-exempt organizations ("EOs"), one of which is a large church, in audits by the IRS alleging improper political activity. I have 26+ years of experience with EO tax law issues, the first 4 with the IRS Office of the Chief Counsel.
I listened to Sen. Obama's speech on the UCC website, and it was a campaign speech. It at least one place, he states that one of his first acts as President would be to sign universal health care legislation.
The result is likely to be that the Church will be asked to agree that it should not have asked Sen. Obama to speak (or at least that it should have made it clear he was not to mention his candidacy or the election), and to promise the it won't happen again. The IRS will not propose to revoke the Church's exemption, something it is now likely to do only in the most egregious cases, when the EO has no significant exempt purpose or activitities.
The real problem with these rules from a legal perspective is that their application in most situations is based on a review of "all the relevant facts and circumstances," so that a church (or other Sec. 501(c)(3) EO never quite knows what conduct is forbidden. For example, when publcly thanking legislators for supporting your EO's legislative objectives, conduct that is permissible in a non-election year is likely to be impermissible a year later, during an election campaign. This is true even though most congressmen may reasonably be presumed to be candidates for re-election from the day after the last election until they affirmatively drop out of the campaign or anounce that they are retiring.
The IRS' insistence on a "facts and circumstances" analysis precludes a clear statement of what conduct is prohibited and when, leaves EOs with no good way to distinguish good conduct from bad, and, as a result, unconstitutionally "chills" the EOs' free speech rights.
February 28, 2008 1:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 01:53
I'm a tax lawyer who is representing two tax-exempt organizations ("EOs"), one of which is a large church, in audits by the IRS alleging improper political activity. I have 26+ years of experience with EO tax law issues, the first 4 with the IRS Office of the Chief Counsel.
I listened to Sen. Obama's speech on the UCC website, and it was a campaign speech. It at least one place, he states that one of his first acts as President would be to sign universal health care legislation.
The result is likely to be that the Church will be asked to agree that it should not have asked Sen. Obama to speak (or at least that it should have made it clear he was not to mention his candidacy or the election), and to promise the it won't happen again. The IRS will not propose to revoke the Church's exemption, something it is now likely to do only in the most egregious cases, when the EO has no significant exempt purpose or activitities.
The real problem with these rules from a legal perspective is that their application in most situations is based on a review of "all the relevant facts and circumstances," so that a church (or other Sec. 501(c)(3) EO never quite knows what conduct is forbidden. For example, when publcly thanking legislators for supporting your EO's legislative objectives, conduct that is permissible in a non-election year is likely to be impermissible a year later, during an election campaign. This is true even though most congressmen may reasonably be presumed to be candidates for re-election from the day after the last election until they affirmatively drop out of the campaign or anounce that they are retiring.
The IRS' insistence on a "facts and circumstances" analysis precludes a clear statement of what conduct is prohibited and when, leaves EOs with no good way to distinguish good conduct from bad, and, as a result, unconstitutionally "chills" the EOs' free speech rights.
February 28, 2008 1:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 01:53
Re the FBI investigation: What has transpired? Have thay charged ucc with anything? What grounds to they have to invade our house? Ask them to speed up and either charge us or go away. Let's push it up to the Supreme Court. Let's also use the Bill of Rights as the shape of a cross and flay them with it. Maybe they'll run.
February 28, 2008 1:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 01:39
I'd like to know why the IRS did not investigate Rick Warren's Saddleback Church for shilling for Bush during the 2004 election. Rick Warren is the megachurch's pastor and the bestselling author of "The Purpose Driven Life." He emailed his parishioners and encouraged them to forward the email to everyone who would be voting in the general election to vote for the candidate who opposed stem cell research, same-sex civil unions, etc. Interestingly, there was no mention of the Iraq war and the death penalty. I know this, because I have sisters who attend his church and they forwarded me his email.
February 28, 2008 1:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 01:31
Regarding the FBI attack on the UCC: Have any charges been put forth yet? Is it possible they are looking to take our tax-free status away because we are "Political"? Are we confronting them head on to accuse us of something or go away? (I pray that we are not going to have to deal with McCarthyism again. Can Bushism be any better?) Maybe someone should flash the Bill of Rights at them in the shape of a cross and say it is a dangerous symbol that has magical powers that among other things causes large crowds to demonstrate and often vote.
February 28, 2008 1:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 01:15
Memo to IRS: Stop this investigation of the United Church of Christ.
February 28, 2008 1:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 01:02
If it had not been Obama, but instead had been Mike Huckabee or even Elizabeth Dole (see the comment posted on the UCC's website about her speaking in a church), would our UCC be a target of IRS investigation? Free speech now seems to be reserved for those who support the Republican right-wing administration.
February 27, 2008 11:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 23:40
I read so many of you saying that the IRS is going after "Obama". The IRS is going after the United Church of Christ, because it thinks the UCC engaged in "political activity". Let's focus on what is going on here...and address the rights of members of a church to address its corporate representative body, and witness to their faith.
February 27, 2008 11:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 23:01
As pastor and a host of one of several web streamed presentations of the 50th anniversary celebration of the United Church of Christ in June of 2007, the greater Church took great pains to disassociate the politician from the believer.Shame on the IRS to think his speech was a political pronouncment. His speech reflected his deep faith and love of God, and chronicled his faith journey. Clearly, what I came away with, after listening to his speech was inspiration in my faith journey, not to back him in any political endeavor. Shame on the IRS; it is apparent this agency of the government has an agenda which seeks to punish the United Church of Christ because a member of one of its autonomous churches spoke to its gathered assembly to inspire and uplift, not to secure political favor!
February 27, 2008 10:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 22:51
The IRS is being used as a tool by Republicans eager to intimidate anyone who might possibly vote for Obama. Doubtless some Republican appointee ordered that this be done. The same IRS turns a blind eye to Republicans giving overtly political speeches in churches, or to bishops telling their congregations to vote Republican. It's sad but not unexpected. Like Satan in Revelations, Bush knows his time is short.
February 27, 2008 10:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 22:40
Interesting topic. My question, Susan, is whether the IRS also investigates churches that host other political figures, such as former Presdient Clinton's much reported campaign stops at black churches around the country. What exactly constitutes legal conduct for political figures when they are hosted by a church?
February 27, 2008 10:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 22:05
Stop giving Obama a free ride people. If the IRS feels the need to do an investigation then Obama needs to anty-up and comply with the investigation.
In all fairness everyone wants Clinton to unveil all and so should Obama.
February 27, 2008 9:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 21:50
Hillary doesn't seem hesitant to rap about her faith, invite her. Huckabee certainly isn't reticent, have him bring his guitar. McCain is reported to have used his Baptist immersion experiences to survive the waterboarding given him by his captors, call him in. Call members of the IRS in to witness, call GWB himself, give Dick Cheney the mike and let's get this settled once and for all. If we don't do this, the terrorists win.
February 27, 2008 9:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 21:37
SA wrote, "
Obama is a phoney.....he knows exactly what he is doing with his so-called inspirations. All he has talked about is what America already knows...how brilliant is that?????
Answers please...he cannot tolerate questioning....and he chaired a committee related to foreign policy involving Afghanastan, etc. but NEVER called a meerting???
He CANNOT produce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
``````````````````````````````
Thank you, and yet he has intelligent people supporting him, go figure!
You are one "smart" person to have reconized this point and even smarter to have the courage to stand alone and verbalize you findings.
February 27, 2008 9:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 21:01
This is ridiculous. If the UCC is in trouble for this, then Bob Jones University ought to be closed. Shame on these zealots - they ought to be ashamed of themselves.
February 27, 2008 8:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 20:38
Thanks JL. The reason the IRS is going after Obama could be related to the following paragraphe taken from his speech:
"But somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and started being used to drive us apart. It got hijacked. Part of it's because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, who've been all too eager to exploit what divides us. At every opportunity, they've told evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their Church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage; school prayer and intelligent design. There was even a time when the Christian Coalition determined that its number one legislative priority was tax cuts for the rich. I don't know what Bible they're reading, but it doesn't jibe with my version."
February 27, 2008 7:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 19:59
Thanks JL. The reason the IRS is going after Obama could be related to the following paragraphe taken from his speech:
"But somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and started being used to drive us apart. It got hijacked. Part of it's because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, who've been all too eager to exploit what divides us. At every opportunity, they've told evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their Church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage; school prayer and intelligent design. There was even a time when the Christian Coalition determined that its number one legislative priority was tax cuts for the rich. I don't know what Bible they're reading, but it doesn't jibe with my version."
Gee, Obama gave the Christain Right the finger. How hilarious. Another reason to vote for Obama.
February 27, 2008 7:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 19:55
Thanks JL. The reason the IRS is going after Obama could be related to the following paragraphe taken from his speech:
"But somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and started being used to drive us apart. It got hijacked. Part of it's because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, who've been all too eager to exploit what divides us. At every opportunity, they've told evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their Church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage; school prayer and intelligent design. There was even a time when the Christian Coalition determined that its number one legislative priority was tax cuts for the rich. I don't know what Bible they're reading, but it doesn't jibe with my version."
February 27, 2008 7:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 19:43
Other candidates have spoken at churches. Why should this be any different?
February 27, 2008 7:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 19:29
Jack S. wrote to say that he hasn’t heard of any conservative churches being investigated by the IRS for political activities. Apparently he hadn’t noticed these past investigations:
Jerry Falwell Ministries
Ted Haggard / New Life Church
Church at Pierce Creek
World Harvest Church
Spirit One Christian Center
Wiley Drake / First Southern Baptist Church
If you agree that it is unfair for the IRS to censor the political speech of churches, regardless of whether the speech is favoring conservative or liberal politicians, then I suggest you support corrective legislation such as the “Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act” to remove the ill-advised limitations on free speech enacted in 1954.
February 27, 2008 7:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 19:13
Obama is a phoney.....he knows exactly what he is doing with his so-called inspirations. All he has talked about is what America already knows...how brilliant is that?????
Answers please...he cannot tolerate questioning....and he chaired a committee related to foreign policy involving Afghanastan, etc. but NEVER called a meerting???
He CANNOT produce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 27, 2008 6:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:59
"Barack Hussein Obama?" Give me a break, "Rev." Thistlethwaite!
February 27, 2008 6:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:52
This simple fact remains, according to present-day law (in the post LBJ era): Churches are prohibited by the terms of their tax exemption from participating or intervening, directly or indirectly, in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office. It wasn’t always this way of course, for those who recall the days before 1954. This is yet another irony, in as much as the liberal UCC probably wasn’t the target originally intended when this law was crafted in the wake of LBJ’s senatorial campaign.
February 27, 2008 6:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:51
For some time I have realized that the Bush administration had a great deal in common with the Nazis. Their use of fear, of division, of lying, of stacking courts and federal prosecutorial offices--all were standard techniques of the Nazis. But now it is clear that they have not just used the propaganda techniques of the Nazis or other methods associated with Hitler and Goebbels, but have come to be exactly LIKE the Nazis.
February 27, 2008 6:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:45
The IRS investigtion in the present "culture wars" in America is not surprising. But this case may be an opportunity for America to discover again that the meaning of separation of church and of state does not mean the giving up of conscience or of faith in public office. Senator Obama's testimony about how his faith influences his political values stands in the great tradition of American democracy articulated by many including Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr. I hope that members and friends of the UCC will contribute generously not just for the defense of our denomination but also to the important civics lesson on freedom of religion that this case involves.
February 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:19
The IRS investigtion in the present "culture wars" in America is not surprising. But this case may be an opportunity for America to discover again that the meaning of separation of church and of state does not mean the giving up of conscience or of faith in public office. Senator Obama's testimony about how his faith influences his political values stands in the great tradition of American democracy articulated by many including Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr. I hope that members and friends of the UCC will contribute generously not just for the defense of our denomination but also to the important civics lesson on freedom of religion that this case involves.
February 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:19
The IRS investigtion in the present "culture wars" in America is not surprising. But this case may be an opportunity for America to discover again that the meaning of separation of church and of state does not mean the giving up of conscience or of faith in public office. Senator Obama's testimony about how his faith influences his political values stands in the great tradition of American democracy articulated by many including Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr. I hope that members and friends of the UCC will contribute generously not just for the defense of our denomination but also to the important civics lesson on freedom of religion that this case involves.
February 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:19
I say to UCC, stand and fight this mendacious abuse of power.
February 27, 2008 6:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:15
Conservative Republicans and fundamentalist Christian church leaders are in bed with each other; you can't separate where one group ends and the other begins. The IRS wouldn't dare investigate links between Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, etc. et. al. and the Republican Party.
Obama simply speaks aobut his faith and the republican controlled government tax agency goes after him.
This is worse than Nixon. It smacks of what Vladimir Putin is doing to maintain control in Russia. It is a bold faced, illegal, attempt by Republicans to hold on to power at any cost, including the abandonment of democracy.
February 27, 2008 6:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 18:13