All Comments (53)

Hmmm, and still no added notes about the perverted Kennedy family in any of the comments so far.

Hmmm, murder, womanslaughter, adultery and more adultery!!!

Big money trumps honesty, fidelity and truth on too many occasions!!!!

Dear Sue,

What are "contextual theologies of liberation"? Warmed-over liberation theology? I recommend John Paul II to you if so. He saw it all close up and personal. And, by the grace of God, lived to tell the tale.

Canyon writes: "The reason people are obsessed with sex scandals is because it boosts the image of themselves."

It would seem that perpetrators of sexual scandals and certain Christians have something in common.

You would have us believe that you don't get the same ego boost from your activities here? Please. Every time you start your holier-than-thou-because-I-am-in-possession-of-the-truth proslytizing, you're no different than the monkey in the cage pushing the button for more cocaine.

Canyon,

You asked: "Do you really think your weak argument will hold up on Judgment Day?"

Absolutely and will get extra blessing for searching and seeing the Reality of It All. A Five Step Program for "Deflawing" Christianity is also available if you are interested.

TO ANGELA B:

You wrote, "You make Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords to be some grandfather in the sky!", actually, by becoming a human being, Jesus, God-Incarnate, became our Brother.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Hey, Canyon didn't ask to be him Thomas. He just said yes:)

You are really entertaining. Thank you.

TO CANYON SHEARER:

Fear of the Lord means reverence and awe, it does not mean being afraid of God. God wants us to obey out of love not fear.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Hahaha, oh man! Sorry, but...wow:

"I am who I say that I am and Jesus is I AM WHO AM. Someone had to be me."

Hahaha, you are cute:)

Someone pass me the popcorn because I feel like I am in the worst chick flick EVER! That is no offense to woman, just the cheesiness of that line.

Let's watch! I hope he doesn't break her heart...

Here's some with extra butter. I'm feeling particularly sinful today. ;)

Wow. Athena, please pass the popcorn. Heaven must be a very lonely place if even the believers go to Hell.

CCNotL...

You are still content to believe anything if it's not the Bible.

The Code of Hammurabi has very little to do with the Bible, or more specifically, the Law in the 10 Commandments. Hammurabi is about social issues and the state, the 10 Commandments are about God.

Do you really think your weak argument will hold up on Judgment Day?

Before the OT, NT and koran what sayest the ancients about adultery and marriage? What one finds is that the bible (e.g. "Moses" Baum, Canyon) and koran thumpers (e.g. Somalitrade, Mischka) on these threads are really thumping the rules of the ancients i.e. the OT, NT and koran are simply rewrites of the codes of the ancients e.g the Code of Hammurabi.

To wit:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/ham/ham02.htm
The Code of Hammurabi- 1792–1750 BC

"If she had been a bad wife, the Code allowed him to send her away, while he kept the children and her dowry; or he could degrade her to the position of a slave in his own house, where she would have food and clothing. She might bring an action against him for cruelty and neglect and, if she proved her case, obtain a judicial separation, taking with her her dowry.

No other punishment fell on the man. If she did not prove her case, but proved to be a bad wife, she was drowned. If she were left without maintenance during her husband's involuntary absence, she could cohabit with another man, but must return to her husband if he came back, the children of the second union remaining with their own father. If she had maintenance, a breach of the marriage tie was adultery. Wilful desertion by, or exile of, the husband dissolved the marriage, and if he came back he had no claim on her property; possibly not on his own."

See added comparisons at "Comparing the Content of
Hammurabi's Code, Mosaic Law, and Justinian Law"

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/comp/cw03hammurabijustinlaw.htm

" If a man and woman were caught in adultery, Hammurabi and Moses decreed that both man and woman be put to death. (i.e. "Billy Boys" and "Monica Ls" had short life spans in the good old days!!!!!) Each set of laws also prohibited a man from having more than one wife at a time. In addition, Justinian and Biblical law required parental consent for any marriage. "

Who do we choose?

Someone that uses the highest office in the land as a love nest for his lovers, outside of his marriage ~ or not?

Someone that is accused of having an affair with a man (Vince Foster) that gets his head blown to bits (with shotgun) outside the White House gates, in Lafyette Park ~ or not?

The extra marital sex thing isn't the moral focus when it's the man or woman that works as the perfume lady at Macy's or the guy working behind the counter at the local Motor Vehicles office, as much as along the lines of it being a person that makes decissions that effect millions.

The sexual moral standard is set higher. This article has cost Dr. Susan a great deal of respect lost.

I hope the Clinton campaign pay the dear Dr. enough to sell out on her past hard works.

It's a shame, really.

First rule of Bible Fight Club: don't talk about Bible Fight Club. :D

TO BELVOIR:

You wrote, "Love and Justice. God is both.", actually, God is Love, Pure Love, a consuming Fire of Pure Love which will burn all of the crud away, some refer to it as chaff.

Were you looking for the words, "Justice and Mercy", by the way. I see a lot on here about God's Justice, at least for the other people. I do not see very much on here about God's Mercy tho, I sometimes wonder why, do you?

I also sometimes wonder how some people can be thankful to someone that they refer to as God, but seems to be, to say the least, not very nice but extremely cruel and unforgiving yet powerful. Can you answer that?

I have met God and I have met satan, the god-wannabe, a lot of people are sure in for a big surprise, some pleasantly and some unpleasantly, this is an understatement to say the least.

I am who I say that I am and Jesus is I AM WHO AM. Someone had to be me.

Take care, be ready, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thomas,

What a weird exposition...lets compare it to scripture.

Adam was put to sleep, his bride, Eve, was taken from his side, so that she could have life.

Christ was put to death, was pierced in the side, so His bride, the Evangelical(Gospel-believing) church, could have everlasting life.

Mary was not the second Eve...

I know you're not a big Bible reader, but would you look up Psalm 5:5 and 11:5, and Nahum 1:8.

Paranoia. Religions came and went, just like these ones that are hip now. In some eons from now they'll make fun of our simple minded dedications. Opium. Church. Power. Money. Inquisition. Iron maiden. Suicide bombers. Bush.

TO ANGELA B:

I know that hell is real for I have experienced it and whether you believe it or not, Jesus, Himself, went to hell and I believe He also went to spiritual death.

Jesus took upon Himself, by His choice, the sin and the sins of the world, original and personal, why would He not go thru that?

The bible is true, the whole bible not just the parts that people are comfortable with. When you read my posts, maybe you should look at the Book of Revelation.

I most definitely am not a theologian, I am just a messenger. Most of the messengers were not believed, even Jesus, Who was not only a Messenger but "The Message Himself", was not believed.

If you remember when Jesus was on the cross and said to the Beloved, "Behold thy Mother" and then to Mary, "Behold thy Son". The Beloved stood in for the entire Human Race and Mary became the New Eve. Later when the Beloved went to the tomb, "He saw and believed". So as you can see, the Beloved loved Jesus enough as a friend to go to the cross to be with Him but even He did not believe until going to the tomb. You heard what happened to the rest of the apostles during this time.

Do you even know what sin is and why God hates sin? Sin is seperation from God, that is why God hates sin. God loves us, He created us, all of us, as in, "Let Us make man in Our Image and Likeness". God did not tear out PAGE ONE, we shouldn't either.

I have met satan and I know he can try to come across as mister nice guy, but he sure is not mister nice guy. satan is very upset, that is his problem not mine.

God said, "I will send the simple to confound the wise", well here I am, look in revelation and it refers to the Mysterious Plan of God. By the way, no one will stop me, not even satan, God chose me and He will see me thru.

Take care, be ready, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

all (exceptions excluded) ya americians r sick in yer crazy heads. religious megalomaniacs with no morals except money on their minds. If you're looking for hell, well, eventually, it will be found.

Belvoir, I'm not sure I see the difference between the KJV and the ESV versions of that verse, they are both literal and both say exactly the same thing. Kick Thomas Baum out for being a heretic...if he won't repent.

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more then matters of this life!

For the spiritual person judges all things, but is judged by no one. We have the mind of Christ.

Thomas, the reason everyone should fear the Lord is because He has the power to not only destroy the body, but also the soul. He has promised that the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

I suspect you fall into at least one of those categories.

Just for giggles, what do you think "Fear of the Lord" means?

TO CANYON SHEARER:

I'm sure you have heard the term, "Fear of the Lord", what does it mean to you? If I may ask.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Am I wrong?

Thank you for calrifying Canyon. However, please allow me to show you the full verse you selected to prove your point:

"12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

"Them that are without God judgeth."

Again, please do not use God to spread your anger. And do not think that I will not call you on it:)

Soemone ticking you off is not reason enough to spread your anger. Especially when you mask that anger with God and select a quote that is not complete to further your own selfish vile agenda. Not acceptable. Ever.

Belvoir,

I didn't think about how that would look to someone who hasn't read me before. Thomas has been my little heretic shadow for about five months now. He never learns and he never expands his argument past what you've seen above, I've come to the point of being quite short with him.

I hope that adequately answers your question about our most prominent resident antichrist.

As for judgment, outside of the church the Christian has no business judging, it is our job to do the warning. But inside the church, as Mr. Baum is sitting inside wearing his sheepskin jacket, I am absolutely justified in testing the spirit in which he comes, and his message is antithetical to the teaching of the Bible.

Canyon

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you. - 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

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Well, ma'am, why do you vote for a cerain candidate?

If it is because you expect, i.e. trust, him/her not to copulate with other than his/her spouse, and he/she gave, signalled or such in any obvious manner his/her agreement, then you have the right to denounce him/her if he/she does once in position.

You have a right to do so. There was a break of trust. Others may not have had that reason when they selected their candidates. To them, the accord is about performance of sworn duty, that is, to be a President, Senator, council member, etc. To a number, I think, of candidates, their entry into politics does not include total surrender of their private lives. (Something like almost all of us do in our private business contracts or work: after office hours is mine to do as I like (provided done circumspectly, innocuously), or, I am only your secretary, clerk, etc., from 9 to 5; thereafter, SOB, don't bug me!) (This does not cover, of course, those engaged in religious or sacred labor as it is the nature of their chosen "profession" to be all-inclusive.)

If you insist that the same vow entered into by priests, ministers, nuns, etc., be sworn to and faithfully, sincerely, completely adhered to by those who run for public office, why would you be surprised, hurt, disillusioned, etc., if such is observed more by breach than compliance? When will it ever be that from the President to the Senators to the teachers, policeman and down the line, you have no one but saints and angels manning thier respective public (or quasi-public) posts? After the promised "Rapture" perhaps...

In the interregnum, we must make do with our frail selves and make the best of it.

Indeed, I wonder just how much "compliance" God himself expects from this part of his creation, the all-too-human human beings?

Because, I am afraid, that if those who so rage and fulminate against this and that because of this and that was written in this and that holy book were to judge mankind, heaven will be one lonely place!

I would rather dwell on the bibilical passage about "God's ineffable mercy" that "flows from generation to generation" washing away the particular acts that were less than perfect and perhaps even the specific perfectly aweful deeds of mankind provided there was, in general, good faith in living out a life of love and compassion and humility as a yearning to be godly reflections.

Peace, brethrens, speak (write) softly, with circumspection, sensitively and sensibly, as befits those who are dealing with the holy and eternal.

The Peace of the Lord be with us all!
.

I agree with you Angela. What you say is different from:

"They prove that God hates the lawbreaker, He is angry with the wicked everyday, and He hates you more than you can possibly imagine."

That line of thought scares me! Wow, "He hates you more than you can possibly imagine." To live with that everyday is hell. Passing scripture to spread your own self-hate and cowardice is not acceptable in any form, any religion, ANY way. Period.

It has nothing to do with Christian's fighting. I am merely pointing out what Canyon was doing. If you hate yourself, fine. Do it in privac, like many Catholics do:) Do not ever assign your vileness to God and condemn someone else. Unacceptable.

This comes from a place of concern. If Canyon truely beleives that his mission is to spread God's word to the public, then that is great! But what he is doing is not that. I am not angry, just concerned. Your making us all look bad Canyon:)

Belvoir: Yes you're right: God is Love and Just. He showed his love, while yet we were sinners, Christ died for us and he extends His hand and loving arms to anyone who repents of their sins and puts their faith and trust in Him. Not in fear but in love and a reverence for Him. Jesus stated: If you love me you would obey my commands. All who come to me, I will in no way turn away. In repetance, not in our self-deceived notions of goodness. There are so any professing Christians just telling the good news and who look and act just like the world. We are to be salt and light and not live in darkness with scales on our lives. How does one understand their sinful nature in the eyes of a Holy, Just, Righteous, Sovereign (and of course, loving) God. We need to preach the word correctly, guard our hearts and guard our doctrine closely

YSIC.

Athena:
Pass that popcorn! This is cool! They eat their own! Man, what a scripture-clawing bout this is!

Yeah a FIGHT!!!! Wait...who's fighting:)

Oooh, a fight amongst the Fundamentalist Christians! Let's get ready to RUMMMMBLLLLLLEEEEE!

* Athena pops popcorn and watches the show.

I have yet to see any comments on Jesus' passage about divorce and adultery. So what do we find??

Mark 10:1-12,
"And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery."

Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

However with respect to Mark 10: 1-12, it appears to be unique to Jesus. Whether John the Baptizer influenced Jesus' thinking on this matter, we will never know although The Baptizer did lose his head criticizing the adultery of Herod. (see Wikipedia for a JB bio).

See also http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/015_Against_Divorce

An excerpt:

"Luedemann [Jesus, 67] notes that the form of the tradition in Mark 10 reflects Roman divorce law, not local Jewish practice. He also observes that "the radical repudiation of divroce by Jesus is attested in both the Q tradition (Matt. 5.32/Luke 16.18) and by Paul in 1 Cor. 7.10-11. It follows that according to all the earliest material Jesus emphasizes the indissolubility of marriage." On Matt 19:12, Luedemann [Jesus, 209] suggests that the saying about eunuchs is probably an authentic Jesus tradition growing out of his own practice as a single male."

Canyon Shearer,

I understand where your logic is taking you, just as I undrstand where Thomas is coming from. But there seems to be an imbalance between the both of you, as was hinted (lopsided I might add) by Angela.

Love and Justice. God is both. However, in saying, even hinting as you do so cowardly by using "logic" to support your anger that someone will go to hell is unacceptable. Not because it is unfounded, but because it came from it came from a place of judgement.

If you can honestly tell me that you meant that vile comment as a way of helping Thomas then I sincerely apologize.

I look forward to your response, as do the rest of the people who have probably already stopped reading.

Canyon Shearer,

I understand where your logic is taking you, just as I undrstand where Thomas is coming from. But there seems to be an imbalance between the both of you, as was hinted (lopsided I might add) by Angela.

Love and Justice. God is both. However, in saying, even hinting as you do so cowardly by using "logic" to support your anger that someone will go to hell is unacceptable. Not because it is unfounded, but because it came from it came from a place of judgement.

If you can honestly tell me that you meant that vile comment as a way of helping Thomas then I sincerely apologize.

I look forward to your response, as do the rest of the people who have probably already stopped reading.

Canyon, you're beginning to sound like the folks from Landover.

To Thomas Baum,

To answer your questions: Please read the Holy Bible which was inspired by God that Hell is a place and it's for all those who were born sinful by nature due to the first man Adam (all of us were born into sin) and the only way we will stand before him righteous is through Christ Jesus in repentence and to put our faith and trust in Christ. Also, yes, they're is the gospel and it contains the "Good News" and the "Bad News" as the Bible calls "The Whole Counsel of God" not half of it! That's whats so very wrong with people who consider themselves theologians spreading their own gospel not the full counsel of God and telling it's ok to wink at their sin and still believe in their "make believe" mercy of God. Making graven images God they put into their mind which will only destroy their soul. You make Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords to be some grandfather in the sky! He is holy and just; Read your bible. Everytime I read a post from you; I think of Acts 20:29-34 and 2 Corinithians 11:3-4; But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. Stop preaching some other gospel!

To Thomas Baum,

To answer your questions: Please read the Holy Bible which was inspired by God that Hell is a place and it's for all those who were born sinful by nature due to the first man Adam (all of us were born into sin) and the only way we will stand before him righteous is through Christ Jesus in repentence and to put our faith and trust in Christ. Also, yes, they're is the gospel and it contains the "Good News" and the "Bad News" as the Bible calls "The Whole Counsel of God" not half of it! That's whats so very wrong with people who consider themselves theologians spreading their own gospel not the full counsel of God and telling it's ok to wink at their sin and still believe in their "make believe" mercy of God. Making graven images God they put into their mind which will only destroy their soul. You make Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords to be some grandfather in the sky! He is holy and just; Read your bible. Everytime I read a post from you; I think of Acts 20:29-34 and 2 Corinithians 11:3-4; But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. Stop preaching some other gospel!

Dear Thomas,

If I'm right, you're going straight to Hell. If you're right, then you're wasting your time because everyone will be fine.

Please read Acts 5, Hebrews 12:15-17, and Luke 16:19-31

They prove that God hates the lawbreaker, He is angry with the wicked everyday, and He hates you more than you can possibly imagine.

But He is patient, and He demands that you repent, Thomas, lest later, when you seek to inherit the blessing, it is too late, and you are turned out in your tears.

Truthsayer,

Maybe you should read your Bible a little more in context. Proof-texting is no way to form a doctrine. Jesus had the authority to forgive the sinner of their sins. Because their transgression was stamped, "Paid in full."

Answer me this, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

Hmmm, no mention of the perverted Kennedy family in any of the comments so far.

Hmmm, murder, womanslaughter, adultery and more adultery!!!

Big money trumps honesty, fidelity and truth on too many occasions!!!!

TO CANYON SHEARER:

One day you shall meet God also, because from what you write, the only thing that you seem to know about God is His Name.

Take care, see you in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

"Sexual misconduct is not so much about the sex as it is about the fact that power corrupts."

Thats moronic. Power doesn't cause erections... well, maybe in Trump.

TO TRUTHSAYER:

You wrote, "ADULTERY (SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE)", actually, Adultery is when one or both are married but not to each other.

When Jesus was here in the flesh, so to speak, He said lots of things, such as, "Judge not lest ye be judged", and "The measure that you judge with will be the measure that you are judged with".

Do you think that maybe we should leave the judging to God since He is God, we aren't?

God is so much nicer than some people think that He is and so much nicer than some people even want Him to be.

God also has a Plan and one day ALL will be glad that He has one but right now so many people seem to want to tell God what to do rather than trying to live their own lives according to His Word, which is Love.

Remember God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready, the seventh day will get here but night is coming first.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Canyon Shearer...

God does forgive sins. Maybe you should read your Bible a little closer. Here is a direct quote from the Bible stating God forgives sins. Mark 2:7 "“Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

As to the "least of these" speech, Jesus was not speaking SOLELY in a spiritual sense. Here's what Jesus said Matt 25: "40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ " ... "44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”"

Truthsayer...

God doesn't forgive sins. He poured His wrath out on Jesus Christ and it pleased Him to do it. You can be forgiven because your sins have been paid for. God hates sin and sinners and will not overlook their transgression.

You also butchered the "Least of These" speech. Christ said to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, welcome the stranger, minister to the sick, and visit the imprisoned. He meant this statement solely in the spiritual sense. Bread of Life, Living Water, righteousness, adoption, cure for death, and liberation from sin. This is an important thing to know, that Christ condemned giving the world and forsaking the soul.

Repent and do the first works.

BILL CLINTON WAS A VICTIM OF ZIONIST SNAKE DWELLED IN USA CAPITOL HILL

Personally I do not approve any relation outside marriage as I never committed such an "offense"
However Bill Clinton Case should be handled with care,
First Most of Many tend to find such relations, that stems from man's nature, they unconsiously try to ensure survival and continuation of their breed spreeding over larger female population. Like animals it must be instinct,
Secondly for Clinton case Bill Clinton has no Son, Man who has no son(despite they may have daughters) tend to find such relations.
But none of them may explain his case,
During his presidency he contributed humand Rights in Middle East which is contrary to Zionist dwellings in Israel and their US partners.
They staged this event to undermine and even force to resign from Precidency,
That is a Zionist Conspirarcy frequently used, Israeli president was forced to leave his position by Zionist evil forces since He possibly was seen as an obstacle in the way to Attacking Iran, He was a jew immigrated from Iran and he seems less hostile to Iran than raving Zionists, who may eat each other as they have no high values.
Secondly they use the same method against other
Ministers and anybody they want to remove from posts.
Israel educate, and train some special Israelis and then send them to USA and put them in work there, certainly with zionist snake already dwelled there(According to an Israeli Newspaper they are many thousands). They suppport each other.
Bill Clinton was trapped through his jewish assistant,though he might already some tendency toward such relations.
So It is important to see the Real EVIL behind the scane otherwise we will be their puppets which they can feel ease to play.
Tayfun

Let's get one thing straight, sex outside of marriage is sin. And there's no question about it. The next point is that EVERY LAST HUMAN BEING on earth has SINNED and come short of God's glory. The only human to have never sinned was Jesus, who died for our sins.

Next we need to examine the BIBLE and see who God felt was a man after His own heart. And who was that? DAVID. And guess what his SIN was, ADULTERY (SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE). I truly believe God would say that Bill Clinton is a man after His own heart. Why? Because when God comes back, the statement He makes to those so called CHRISTIANS, was that they did not show LOVE to their fellow neighbor (and this is not sexual love I'm speaking of). God asks them did they feed the HUNGRY, give clothe to the homeless, help the widow. And when we look at the track record, the CLINTON Administration did more in terms of God's priorities, than this so called CHRISTIAN BUSH Administration. Each time Bush and the so called Christians had a chance to help out those in need they purposefully let them suffer. DARFUR and Hurricane Katrina are a few examples for those needing proof.

A TRUE CHRISTIAN has LOVE for their Neighbor. I am a Christian and I believe God forgives sins. And when we look at all mankind we all are sinners. However, in the grand scheme of things, those sinners who have LOVE for their neighbors, are the ones who will see heaven. While those sinners who cry out Christ's name everywhere proclaiming to be CHRISTIANS but show no love will be the ones cast into the fire when Christ returns.

Matthew 7:21-23 "21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Context...Context...Context...

Real loving, there Canyon. I'm sure I could quote someone in your Bible saying to Hezukaziah, "I know your shoes are too big, and you're a blasphemer."

Or some darn thing.

Thomas,

I finally found your verse:

But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. - John 5:42

TO CANYON SHEARER AND THE REST OF HUMANITY:

You wrote, "But God doesn’t want you to go to Hell.", yes, this is true but God being God knew that some would never repent and would build their own hell, because hell is not some kind of monolithic place but something that you build yourself, and that is why He came up with His Plan.

As it says, Jesus took on the sins of the entire human race, does it not?

Jesus, Himself, went to hell and to death, spiritual death, that is how He won the keys to the netherworld, think about it.

Whether you like it or not, approve of it or not, it is His Plan, not yours.

My job as the New Testament Moses is to PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL, Gospel means "Good News" and as the angels said at Jesus's birth, "This is GOOD NEWS for ALL PEOPLE".

It is the "GOOD NEWS" not the "good enough news".

We will all be judged, knowing God's Name means that you know God's Name, it doesn't mean that you are a Christian.

Acknowledging that Jesus is God-Incarnate just means that you know Who He is, even the demons know that.

I thank God that He has a Plan and I also thank God that having met Him, I know from listening to some people that know His Name, that is the only thing that they know about Him.

As it says, "God loved us so much that He became one of us and died for ALL of us so that on the seventh day at the arrival of the Kingdom we could ALL be Thankful.

Take care, be ready, see you all in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

*wondering if Canyon's assertion would be better simplified to "Some folks like to hand out self-righteous condemnation." :) *

Ok, a direct answer to the questions posed.

"Is sex outside of marriage a sin?"
Depends on your religion. Mine says it isn't.

"Is it a public matter?"
Depends on the situation. If it involves abuse of power or coercion, then it becomes a criminal matter, which makes it public. Otherwise - no.

"Is it forgivable?"
Depends on the situation. If it's merely two horny single people hooking up, there's nothing to forgive. If someone has been harmed by it, then it's up to the person harmed (cuckolded spouse, coerced employee, etc.) to decide if forgiveness is in order.

Dr. Thistlethwaite,

This was an interesting response filled with good insight. But you failed to answer the question.

The reason people are obsessed with sex scandals is because it boosts the image of themselves.

"Well, I only fantasize about my secretary, at least I didn't do what Clinton did!"

"Of course I'm cheating on my wife...but so did Rev Swaggart!"

"I've done lots of things wrong in my life, but at least I never did cocaine with a homosexual prostitute!"

It's all about appeasing the conscience and trying to convince ourself that deep down, we really are good people.

The truth is, we’re all going to stand before God someday, and because I care about you, I want to make sure you’re ready for that day. Most people would say they’re a good person, but they’re comparing themselves to other people, and usually pretty awful people, when they need to compare themselves to God, to perfection. Let's see how you look in God's eyes.

If you’ve ever taken God’s name in vain, then God sees you as a blasphemer, and this you know, that no blasphemer will see the kingdom of God.

If you’ve ever told a lie, then God sees you as a liar, and all liars will have their place in the lake of fire!

If you’ve ever stolen anything, then God sees you as a thief. If you’ve ever hated anyone, then God sees you as a murderer. If you’ve ever looked at someone that wasn’t your spouse with lust, then God sees you as an adulterer.

Your conscience bears witness to your transgession, it has recorded every time you haven’t obeyed your parents, every time you have coveted something, every time you knew something wasn’t right and did it anyways, and every time you could have stopped something bad from happening and didn’t.

The wages of sin is death, we have amassed the punishment of Hell, all that stands between us and everlasting torment is the day of our death, it is appointed once for a man to die, and then the judgment.

But God doesn’t want you to go to Hell. He gave us His only begotten Son, so that whosoever trusts in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, gave Himself up to die in your place on the cross. He took your punishment so that you can be absolved on Judgment Day, then He rose from the grave and defeated our greatest enemy, death.

Repent of your sins and turn towards the Saviour, and you will see Heaven, not because you’re a good person, but because you’re a bad person forgiven by a good God.

Please think about this, don't let another day go by without calling out to God for forgiveness.