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I WAS LOOKING FOR OTHER PEOPLES VIEWS ON THE SABBATH DAY AND HOW CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS FEEL ITS RIGHT AND HOW THEY KEEP IT HOLY AND THEN THIS CAME UP. I DIDNT REALY UNDERSTAND WHY THIS CAME UP BECAUSE IT DOESNT REALY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WANTED BUT I READ IT AND ITS GOOD XXX

I WAS LOOKING FOR OTHER PEOPLES VIEWS ON THE SABBATH DAY AND HOW CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS FEEL ITS RIGHT AND HOW THEY KEEP IT HOLY AND THEN THIS CAME UP. I DIDNT REALY UNDERSTAND WHY THIS CAME UP BECAUSE IT DOESNT REALY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WANTED BUT I READ IT AND ITS GOOD XXX

this is not what i'm looking for

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JD,

As a Wiccan I see God/s as more then my little mind can take in...it is all things..God/Goddess, Light/Dark,Water/Fire, Mountains/ valleys...God is all things...Pagans happen to see God in creation, for that is in front of us. I have just come back from the mountains in West Virginia..and I can not tell you how awesome those creations are. I saw my Lord Cernunnos on the mountain tops...and my Goddess in the morning mists in the valleys, as if the premordial sea, as if in a boiling cauldron of life becomeing. I saw deer unafraid and a bear wondering down the driveway...they are my God, my Goddess...I saw an eagle flying on the thermals eye to eye...oh my God flying free...

My Goddess, my Mother was in the momma deer shooing her twins across the road...and in the sun riseing in the east as the moon set in the west the night before. I saw Her in the leaves that changed from the green that were to the red and golds a week later...the cycle of life. That is my Lady and Lord...the life forces.

JD, you say we have false gods...Life is. Creation is. Change is. REAL. Those are our gods...bigger and brighter and more real then your bible or all the words you can speak.

An something you may not realize, most Pagans were Christians. We know about your Bible (I have two, a KJV and a Roman Catholic one. They belonged to my parents). We went to church, Sunday School, Bible school...etc. Many Pagans know the bible better then some Christians...as seekers you first seek in what you know. So stop thinking that we are Pagan because we just do not know the "good news." We know it. We just do not think it is all that good.

The biggest thing that made us Pagan is Christianity and your bible. Without that we would never had found home.

Blessed be,
terra

terra

The kingdom is on Earth.

Every day is Judgement Day.

To JD: It is not magic as in if you say the right words, you are in. God is a Trinity and He has a Plan and it is for ALL OF HUMANITY TO BE WITH HIM IN HIS KINGDOM. New heavens and a new earth. God Incarnate became a male member of mankind but God is not a man or a woman or an it but is Pure Love, this is for the people that get upset about pronouns. I haven't read all of your postings but I have read enough, that it seems like you do not have a clue what being a christian is. Take care, see you in the Kingdom, the seventh day will arrive. It is important what you do and why you do it and what you know. We will all be judged but have you ever heard of Mercy or Compassion, remember Jesus said, "I have not come to condemn the world but that the world might be saved", guess what God knows what He is doing and His Plan will come to fruition whether you like it or not. I kind of look at it as Dad's Plan, our Brother's obedience to the Plan and our Knitting Buddy, the Holy Spirit, bringing it to fruition, think about it. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

JD

Please tell me where i have ever said "all roads lead to God"? I never said that and don't believe it. It wasn't even something I implied or suggested.

It looks like you are the one obfuscating. You have completely avoided responding to the substance of what I said by offering up this red herring. I successfully refuted your point about DNA and early Americans and all you can do is out words in my mouth.

I had hoped to get an email from you at my address above as I requested but I guess you aren't willing to engage in a civil dialog about such matters. Oh well.

Dave, I'm sorry. Keep seeking your own path. All roads do indeed lead to God. Be a good person and hope for the best! Your doing fine. Do you feel better? Gosh, what was I thinking?
Now I know how Pilate felt when he washed his hands...

JD

Please tell me how I was obfuscating? Honestly, answer that one question. To obfuscate means to hide. I didn't avoid responding to our claim or hide from your challenge. I answered that very claim with a quote from a Harvard professor. Seems like a pretty good source. Or at least one worthy of some consideration. But you couldn't invalidate what he said so you pulled out your dictionary and picked "obfuscate" out as a response.

I am not trying to tell you that a Harvard Professor is some final authority on DNA, I just think his viewpoint might be worth considering as it would make your viewpoint completely wrong. And since there are others who think as he does it seems to make his position a bit stronger.

And about my not knowing anything about what it means to behave in a Christian way. Perhaps you're right. Maybe I don't know what it means to be Christians. I guess it could be that Christians should act rude, condescending and offensive. I just thought otherwise. My bad.

OK, I realize that was kind of a cheap shot but come on! Even if I were to ever reconsider my ways and join up with your faith, it would be my sincere hope to never run in to you. You just don't seem like a very swell guy. Perhaps I'm wrong but I just call em as I see em.

If you'd like to discuss this further and show me how I have misjudged you, you can email me any time at davidpadamsjr "at" hotmail dot com I am always open to talking further.

Peace out

Are you kidding me daveescaped a.k.a. Anon? So DNA is not valid in identifying the comonality of Jewish and Arab either. You KNOW DNA is a valid identifier and PROVES Mormons are fakes making Joe Smith a phoney too making YOU a laughinstock. You KNOW and yet you STILL cling to the fallacy. Why? Obfuscation is a common tool of cults.
And I find it hiliarious that someone who clearly knows NOTHING about what a Christian is can know SO much about Christianity! You can't study the fraud to identity the genuine. Why do you think there are so many cults! FOTFLMRO! Discussing anything with armchair experts, pushing a string.

JD

The quote I supplied is the viewpoint of a Harvard Professor stating that DNA can't confirm Israelite ancestors. Therefore your entire point is moot.

The basic idea is that some scientists looked at the DNA of indigenous americans and said they couldn't find any evidence of jewish DNA. They were right. The only problem is that the same thing holds true for EVERY jewish group that lives away from Israel. In other words there isn't any way to prove Jewish heritage via DNA (again read what the Harvard Professor said). There are other sources as well.

So was that clear enough for you?

Mostly I find it funny that the Evangelical Christian is the person here who has been reminded to act Christian by a Mormon and a Wiccan.

And I was the ANON posting before. Just keep forgetting to add my name.

Wiccan, I sincerely hope you become born again. But by your responses, you value yourself an expert in Christianity but at the same time deny how to become one. In valid Christianity the HAS TO BE a starting point. Thats one of the validators of being a born again Christian. Non believers deny that and I find that facinating about non believers. They know SO much about who God and His Christ are without ever conversing with Him! I seriously DOUBT your second hand opinions. The New Testament, specifically, the writtings of the Apostle Paul are the only valid example of how and who a Christian is AFTER being born again by Christ's Holy Spirit WHO is 'made' to 'dwell' in His believers.

What are you talking about Anon? The question is NOT the origin of "the Jewish group." We know the Jewish nation came from Abraham and Sarah by a miracle of God. The question is Joseph Smith's ludicris statement that the indiginous Indians of N and S America are the result of a Jewish family landing on the continent of S America and populating both continents! It has been proven to be a lie therefore the whole religion of Mormonism is a lie. Deal with it. Obviously you are a mormon, you should be pissed or ashamed at being so duped. And the subject IS "CULTS" so I don't see how PROVING Mormonism IS A LIE!!!! therefore a cult is as you say deflecting!

JD

Since you insist on deflecting the conversation from the proper topic of this comment section, I'll endulge you very slightly.

Dr. Shaye Cohen of Harvard University had the following to say regarding DNA (specifically MtDNA or Mitochondrial DNA) and Israelite origins of any group (including idigenous Americans):

"The authors are correct in saying the historical origins of most Jewish communities are unknown. Even close mtDNA homologies would not necessarily prove an Israelite origin, but the conspicuous absence of such homologies provides strong circumstantial evidence of non-Israelite origins for the mtDNA and much of the other genetic makeup of most modern Jews. With no evidence that modern Jewish mtDNA constitutes a valid control of the genetics of ancient Israel--and considerable evidence to the contrary--claims of Israelite lineage cannot be either confirmed or denied based on mtDNA data."

So please cease and decist using this non-existent arguement.

JD-

You can tell the truth without being obnoxious, arrogant, and snide. Is your God so feeble that we must be terrified into worshipping him? And if God has already chosen his people, what difference does it make how I worship? I'm either in or out, and the way YOU define God I'd rather be out. The Divine has chosen to reveal itself to me as my Lord and Lady. They are my loving parents; I've had too many personal experiences to deny them. I will continue to do my best to walk in balance in this world, to harm none, to rejoice in the beauty that has been given to me, and to pass that beauty along. If your God wants to fry me for that, so be it.

Mean is telling you the truth? Hummm...

JD, have you had much success proselytizing by sticking your tongue out and saying, "Nyahh, nyahh, I'm going to heaven and you're going to hell!" ? Honestly, if I thought all Christians were as unpleasant as you there would be no way I would become a Christian. Every positive aspect of Christianity that I know is absent in your posts. Whatever my sister found in Christ has made her a better person; she tries to be Christ-like. What did you find in Christ that made you so goddam mean?

Salvation is from the Jews. People like to point out the Abraham is the father of 3 great religions. NOT TRUE. He is the father of the Chosen Jewish people and the father of Christianity. Abraham is NOT the father of Islam. He is the father of Ishmael, that is all. God is not a man that He would lie. Wiccan can believe all clatter supposedly quoting God but its not worth the 1's and 0's it took to display it. All major cults are offshoots of Judaism and Christianity Everything else is the worst of wishful thinking. Philosophy will not save you. Religion will not save you. Only a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus will save you. So many people have made up their minds on where they will spend eternity. Thats too bad. Seperated from Love and Life is not the best choice. The Lord Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." To YOU, He was either telling the truth or a lie. The Lord Jesus also said, "You MUST be born again." The Gospel of John will tell you how to achieve that. Faith in any other thing or person EXCEPT Christ Jesus is worthless. I am going to say that again, FAITH IN ANY OTHER THING OR PERSON EXCEPT CHRIST JESUS IS WORTHLESS. ONLY faith in Christ Jesus has life.

Rob-

A very fine two cents, may I say. Why on earth JD thinks he has the authority to define what relationship I have with the Divine is beyond me. Rumi said:

"A sudden revelation
came then to Moses. God's voice:

You have separated
me from one of my own. Did you come as a Prophet to unite,
or to sever?

I have given each being a separate and unique way
of seeing and knowing and saying that knowledge.
What seems wrong for you is right for him.
What is poisonous to one is honey to someone else.

Purity and impurity, sloth and diligence in worship,
these mean nothing to me.

I am apart from all that.
Ways of worshipping are not to be ranked as better
or worse than one another.

Hindus do Hindu things.
the Dravidian Muslims in India do what they do.
It's all praise, and it's all right.
It's not me that's glorified in acts of worship.
It's the worshipers! I don't hear the words
they say. I look inside at the humility."

http://www.flatmajic.com/spirituality/Meditations/MosesandtheShepherd.htm

You said: "During the Greco-Roman period, both Judaism, and later Christianity were not in the mainstream of Greek and Roman culture, hence they are, at that time, “cults”."

There are two groups of people on planet earth, 1. those chosen by God to be His 2. those who choose to not be His. Because as you state, "Judaism and Christianity was not in the mainstream," does not mean there wasn't a presence or place where God could be found IF one sought for Him. Just as is the case today. The Greek-Roman period had extensive worship, they just worshipped in ignorance things not God. Never underestimate the ability of man to create in "his" image and then ascribe deity to it. Mormonism, JWism, Catholicism, Islam, Wiccan and bgone are perfect disciples of that heathen practice. But God has always had a witness of His presence because His plan CANNOT be thwarted by human intelligence or strength. Also never underestimate the possibility of natural man to pervert the Word of God because he is interpreting it WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. Bottom line is this: Mormonism is a bastardization of Christianity and Judaism. JWism is a bastardization of Judaism. Catholicism is a bastardization of Christianity and Judaism. The Islamic religion is just a bastard. (Hagar was NOT married to Abraham, that makes Ishmael a bastard.)
Wiccan and bgone and those like them really have a vivid imagination LOL. To justify their lifestyle seek to destroy the only authority that will eventually judge them! Good luck with that.

JD.

I believe you are mistaken in regards to Wiccan’s ‘foolish’ idea on who God is. You are falling into the same trap as many other believers in their own religion that my way is right and it is the only truth.

We can’t all be right, but we definitely could all be wrong or at least score an incomplete when it comes to defining God.

From my stand point God is so vast that we currently only comprehend a small fraction of the truth and it appears to all of us in different ways. While Wiccan has a very different belief system than many from my perspective she certainly has some insightful ways of looking at spirituality. Spirituality transcends religion because it is not as bound by human concepts.

I can’t remember who it was and the exact analogy that was posted on a thread a couple of months back. We were talking about how can two apparently contradictory things be true. The basic analogy was a humans see the flower as blue, the bee sees the flower as white (perhaps I have the colors revered, but you get the point). It is still a flower but appears differently to both. I think God is very similar to the flower.

Depending one’s spiritual evolution we perceive God differently.

My 2 cents.

Regards.

JD

Thanks for helping me make my point so well.

To reiterate, if you choose to lob the term "cult" at others, then you are in company with people like JD who think it's clever to point out that "Mormon" and "moron" are similar and must follow the word cult with an exclamation point.

Thanks JD.

daveescaped, its a proven fact NO Jewish DNA is found in ANY indeginous indian tribes of North and South America CONTRARY to the claims of your main guy J Smith. There should be SOMETHING if the claims of J Smith is a historical fact. If it is NOT a historical fact then ALL the claims of J Smith are a lie. And the angel Moroni has played Mormons for morons. If J Smith had known then about DNA do you think he would have continued in the hoax? I say yes because of SO MANY gullible people who would believe something as ludicris as what your CULT preaches! The book of Galations shoots your religion in the foot regarding YOUR future just as Genesis 17:19 shoots the Muslim in the foot regarding their future.

One of the shortest most powerful lines in the bible is this, "Be ye not deceived."

While the Rev. may be technically correct in her definition of cults, being correct isn't exactly the same communicating effectively. None of us would be likely to use the "correct" term for a female dog even if we were describing a female dog.

I'm not suggesting some politically correct standard of word usage. But unless I am hoping to be provocative or disparaging, I don't often use the word cult to describe others faiths. As a Mormon I have, on a few occassions, had someone lob the term cult at my faith. It was always done with an effort to be disparaging.

If you are looking for such an example of this, look at JD's posts above. He isn't using the term cult to be accurate, he is trying to demean.

Feel free to use the term freely but be aware of the company that this puts you in.

Aw shucks JD. I forgot to point out that the god Ammun Re, father of Pharaoh is a ball of fire. Must have a male being in it else how did the mother of Pharaoh get pregnant.

Tell me again. Jesus was fathered by the being in the ball of fire, the one Moses made a deal with to become the most important person that ever lived?

Well what do you know about that, Jesus and Pharaoh are at least half brothers, got the same father.

JD, what makes you think I'm a "he?" Girls can play too you know. The whole Bible tale, burning bush et al comes from girls deciding the boys had screwed up the world. I thing Miz Mutemweya said, "the best man for that job is a woman, me." That job was the office of God. In the ancient Egyptian language the word for God is Pharaoh, the son of the god Ammun Re.

Pharaoh - King of Kings, Lord of Lords and He shall reign forever and ever.

In simple terms, Pharaoh expected to return to life in the next world and again be what He was on earth, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And, that was not the end of His reign for again He would grow old and again die and again go on to the next world where He would rule...

Eternal life is an infinite set of temporary lives...

The ones with, "the power, the kingdom and the glory of almighty Pharaoh" enjoy life just a smidgen more than common bundles. When they die they don't just go to heaven, they rule heaven.

I can see bgone now, he's sitting there picking the lint from his bellybutton and snacking while he waits for a response. GET OUT bgone! Enjoy life! Go to a movie, the park, join a social club totally different than what your accustomed to. Try new life!

Which part couldn't you read JD the direct quotes from the Bible? How do you like those official pictures? Nice part about them is those angels wielding swords and spears and them hiding behind shields. Tells us angels can be shot.

You must counter the argument that the being in the ball of fire was Devil.

Evidence the being was Devil:
1. lives in fire
2. needs help from people to get what it wants
3. uses criminal mode of operation to get it's way
4. getting what it wants is really rag tag

Your turn.
Evidence the being was God:

I'm waiting. Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite, is welcome to answer too. Otherwise what am I to think?

Oh! Almost forgot. http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul for reference.

Dear Susan,

I think Pamela K. Taylor got it right on another thread when she said:

"Generally speaking, the characteristics of a cult include a strong, central, living religious authority whose word is absolute and unchallengeable. Members of the cult are usually cut off from their existing circle of family and friends or encouraged to isolate themselves from those contacts, often with warnings that outsiders cannot be trusted and with permission to be deceptive in dealing with former associates. They are often expected to subject themselves to intense control by the religious authority, with nearly every aspect of their lives regulated."

I knew three victims of a religious cult. They are all dead now. Your historical perspective is well meaning, and thoughtful, but it does not begin to get the evil of death cults masquerading as older religions and high jacking their legitimacy to control and destroy independent lives, just as Pamela says.

Geez bgone are you like in 2nd grade? Your website is pure stupidity. Don't need to waste my time if your post is representitive of its content. SHALLOW! To The Max.

Geez JD: Can you read?

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul The Bible says that Moses sold his soul to the biggest Devil of them all, Lucifer. That's your Bible warning you to back off. And that "thing" in the ball of fire, the fire of hell was the father of Jesus. The Bible says Jesus went to hell when He died on the cross and that Jesus calls hell paradise. What do you need for evidence, eye witnesses like Joe Smith?

If the Bible is so then only those who reject it will go to heaven. Everyone else is being led to hell by the ministry. Miss Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is training more soul sellers to harvest souls for Devil and lead the multitudes to hell at her institute of Devil worship leaders. It's them that are eating drinking and meeting prostitutes, both male and female varieties on the sly.

Has your soul been harvested by a Bible thumper already? Sorry, but it's too late for you. You may as well make the best of it. I understand Rev Teddy Haggard. He's just doing what come naturally for one already going to hell, according to the Bible. Didn't Abraham have 70 wives? Big on family values I see. He has a few slaves too I understand,, sorry, meant to say servants.

Wiccan, you say some of the most foolish things I have ever read regarding who God is or even who His Christ is! But not as foolish as bgone. How can one take you two seriously? Trying to put it in words you can understand because the Bible is VERY clear your future. I hope you are enjoying your food, drink and gaity. Christian love is NOT painting a rosy future for unbeliever! Christian love is telling you like it is. The Bible IS for the most part God's narrative of His work and intentions for planet earth and it was NEVER long term. To tell you otherwise would be to lie to you and all who read this.

wiccan:

JD-

May we get one thing straight? Wiccans do NOT worship Satan. Satan is a Christian construct, a perversion of the Lord Cernunnos used to frighten people into accepting Christ.

----- you're both wrong

Satan is the "accuser" and not a Devil. For some reason and most likely ignorance Satan and Lucifer have been merged like they were corporations. That happened in the last century.

http://www.hoax-buster.org has pictures of original Satan, the god of the Egyptian underworld that administers the lie detector test to folks on their way to the next life. Satan is not the demon on the nebol bridge but is the "master" of the demon that is also pictured, Eater is her name. Satan is male and the demon is female.

Hoax buster identifies Lucifer as a cloud in the sky. Most likely the author of Revelation used the same Egyptian text for his description of Jesus returning on the last day, a misreading of the Egyptian text that actually describes the birth of Jesus, "the Amen" Amenophis IV.

JD-

I pity poor Jesus with you and Canyon Shearer as his only company. Does it actully bring you joy to think that people who don't believe exactly like you do will be "batted out of the stadium" by God? Still not feeling the Christian love coming from you.

The whole Mormon belief system is based on a lie. There is NO Jewish DNA in ANY indiginous indians of north or south America. There would be if what Joseph Smith said was true. The foundational truth of Mormonism is based on a lie:
http://www.christiananswers.net/spotlight/movies/2002/dnaevidencebom.html
just as the doctrinal truth of the Muslim religion is based on a lie. All cults are based on a lie just as Wiccan has proved today. They suppress the truth with a lie just as Paul shows in Romans chapter 1. Wiccan, all roads do indeed lead to God but in yours and the other cults case God is a T-Ball player, your path ends at His home plate and you and the other cults are the ball. God always hits homeruns and over the fense in your case as in all the cults case is hell. SWING BATTER! is what you'll hear me yelling from the stands.

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often misunderstood by Evangelical preachers . . Some accuse the Church of not believing in Christ and, therefore, beiing a "cult . . http://mormonsarechristian.blogspot.com/ helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early (First Century) Christianity's theology relating to baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) adheres to Early Christian theology more closely than other Christian denominations. Perhaps the reason the Evangelical preachers promote this mis-representation is to protect their flock (and their livlihood).

JD-

May we get one thing straight? Wiccans do NOT worship Satan. Satan is a Christian construct, a perversion of the Lord Cernunnos used to frighten people into accepting Christ.

One more thing, Wiccans do not persecute others for their beliefs. We understand that there are as many paths to God as there are souls. Walk your way, brother, and I'll walk mine; in the end we'll both reach the Divine.

Before the Apostle Paul's born again conversion he persecuted and even killed born again Christians. The Lord Jesus stopped Paul (then known as Saul) and asked him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?") The Born Again Church IS Christ and He would ask the cults and religious and those who cannot believe the same question He asked Saul. Brock agreed with Ghandi in doing the work of Saul. Mormons, JW's, satanists like pagans and wiccans and the like are children of Saul too. Muslims are the worst of the cults along with those who DO NOT believe in God or His Christ. They think they are doing a service to God by killing the Jews and Christians. Jesus foretold it. All the Lord Jesus foretold WILL come to pass.

For those who want to know who really are Jehovah's Witnesses after you clear away all the pro and con propaganda, here are SUMMARIES OF NEARLY 600 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES LAWSUITS & COURT CASES. Nothing beats "the real world":

The following website summarizes 310 U.S. court cases and lawsuits affecting children of Jehovah's Witness Parents, including 100+ cases where the JW Parents refused to consent to life-saving blood transfusions for their dying children:

DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com

The following website summarizes over 275 lawsuits filed by Jehovah's Witnesses against their Employers, and/or incidents involving problem JW Employees:

EMPLOYMENT ISSUES UNIQUE TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESS EMPLOYEES

http://jwemployees.bravehost.com

Gandhi said it best "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Because religions as varied as catholicism and baptists, choose not to worship as Jesus instructed his followers, wouldn't that make them Cults or at minimum Sects?

Many of the "beliefs" of modern christianity started with Marcion in the second century and had little to do with the teachings of christ eg.
Forget the Hebrew Scriptures and the history of the Jews,
Integrate the beliefs of the Greeks and Plato into Christianity including the holidays,
Change the Sabbath day,
Ignore John's Revelation.
etc. etc. etc.

Wouldn't the reality of the deviation from the teachings of Jesus make these religions Cults or offshots of Christian beliefs?

It's interesting to read the thoughts of those whose views form and perpetuate "consensual reality".

Which in affect are the views of roughly 80% of the population, the great mass of unindividuated seekers.

It is of course precisely because there are in each generation a few courageous ones willing to put forth original, divergent ideas and insights, that there ever is a group here and there that actually lies outside the cultural norms in terms of its beliefs and practices -- forming what some please to call a cult.

Nothing wrong with listening to the ideas, explanations and interpretations of the so called learned authorities of religion. But my advice is in the end make up your own mind.

Yes, JWs and Mormons are also cults in the sense that their religions were founded on the belief systems of one man who claimed to have the only "truth", but which was heretical by the standards of mainstream Christianity.

Cults also have their own jargon. Who Jesus is to a Christian and who He is to a cultist is not the same thing. The same goes for terms like "salvation", definition of the afterlife, etc.

The fact is that cults teach a different Christ and a different Gospel message--one that is based on human works and not Godly grace as the Bible teaces. If you want to witness to a cult member, you need to first discover what they mean by these terms or they will sidestep your arguments all day long using the semantics game.

I do apologetics work and run a group for ex-cult members seeking recovery and a correct theological foundation.

In light of Rev.Dr. Brooks last comments about those groups that promote extreme paranoia or fanaticism being "cults", would she consider certain Catholic dioceses "cults" because they tolerated in appropriate sexual behavior among their priests?

Dear Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite, President, Chicago Theological Seminary:

There's a lot of easy money being made on "end of world" books. The most significant "end of world" scenario ever conceived is demanding to be written.

When the big fight between good and evil takes place which side is the Jesus gang really on, God's side or Devil's side? Let's examine the facts:

Lucifer wanted to take over heaven.

Lucifer got thrown into hell created just for him and his.

Lucifer fathered Jesus.

Jesus was recognized as the son of Devil and crucified.

Cults sprang up as a result.

The promise was made by Jesus as He hung on the cross to the good thief, "this day you will be with me in paradise" (His father's kingdom, hell).

Many, lots of Christian mind-controlling cults believe Jesus was the son of God and the Christ, (unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior you're going to hell).

Reality - those who accept Jesus, join Jesus cults are going to hell.

Lucifer can raise an army with all those followers of Jesus in hell.

Revelation really says that Lucifer with Jesus at His right hand will overcome "their enemy" God and take over heaven on the last day. The threat is that when Lucifer becomes God those who do not accept Jesus will be damned.

There's but one logical conclusion, Jesus is the great Antichrist.

No kidding? "The term “cult” has gotten a bad rap in common usage, having been employed most often to describe drug-laden, mind-controlling groups." There's such a thing as one that isn't "mind-controlling?"

Cult = Devil, always. There is no such thing as a God cult. Of course, (see Pagans) Devils are Gods too.

Jesus was/is the son of God. That's a given. Is Christianity is just another cult? Was the God that fathered Jesus really a Devil?

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul says Moses sold his soul to Devil, that the supernatural being, (both Gods and Devils are supernatural beings) in the ball of fire was the most noterious of Devils, one that would be God, the Lord of hell himself, Lucifer.

The "Apostles Creed" which is the official beliefs of all Christians says that Jesus "descended into hell" upon His death on the cross. Just prior to His death on the cross Jesus turned to the good thief and said, "this day you will be with me in paradise." There's only one possibility, hell and paradise are the same place and the kingdom of the father of Jesus. Lucifer fathered Jesus according to sacred scriptures.

One man's God is another's Devil. Adolph Hitler satisfies that truism. To Germans Hitler was God while to most of the world he was Devil. So don't be surprised that the one you call God is proved to be Devil or that Devil promises paradise and delivers on the promise. The Bible was written by people with the same impetus as those who put Hitler into power.

As a professor, a learned person of sacred scriptures I and the thinking class expect you to counter the above arguments. What evidence can you point to that says Jesus was not the son of Lucifer in the minds of those who wrote those passages in the Bible?

While "cults" can be neutral as far as deceptive mind control, many are not as was mentioned. Among the dangerous ones are Jehovah's Witnesses. An outstanding trait of all the JW pedophile cases is that unlike the Catholic Church, which has even proved superior to Jehovah's Witnesses in admitting they have a serious problem with their policies, the leaders of the Governing Body of the Watchtower are trying desperately to hide any hint of their guilt in the matter. I worked at Bethel for 6 years and I know how desperate they are to cover things over.

Thank you, Susan, for shedding light on that word cult.

All you need to know about the Jehovah's Witnesses is that they say "Jesus had his return to power" aka his second coming in the year 1914.

What do you think?

Debunking the Jehovah's Witnesses propaganda:
A) They are at your door to recruit you for enslavement to their watchtower corporation,they will say that "we are just here to share a message from the Bible" this is deception right off.

B) The 'message' is their false Gospel that Jesus had his second coming already in 1914.The problem with this,is it's not just a cute fairy tale,Jesus warned of the false prophets who would claim "..look he is here in the wilderness,or see here he is at the temple"

C) Their anti-blood transfusion ban has killed hundreds if not thousands
D) once they recruit you they will "love bomb" you in cult fashion to also recruit your family & friends or cut them off. There are many more dangers,Jehovah's Witnesses got a bad rap for good and valid reasons.
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Danny Haszard Jehovah's Witness X 33 years and 3rd generation
http://www.freeminds.org