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ABD wrote:
"the number one reason why there are atheist, agnostics, and secularist is..........christianity."

"there is not this problem in islamic societies"

It's not a "problem"!

The reason is that in Islamic countries people are poorly educated and do not have any choice about what to believe. Islam is forced on people. They don't have free access to information. They have little access to information that does not support an Islamic world view, such information is actively suppressed. THAT IS A PROBLEM! An example of this is the recent purge of academics with liberal views in Iran.

I know some atheists in Islamic countries. They have to pretend to be Muslims in order to avoid persecution.

"the number one reason why there are atheist, agnostics, and secularist is..........christianity."

There are plenty of atheists agnostics and secularists in Japan, China, and Europe who have never had much to do with Christianity.

"I believe that the story of God come to us as a vulnerable little child means is that each child is sacred. That is where I enter the deep truth of God with us. We must protect little children from war, from famine, from genocide, from abuse and from neglect and the thousand other horrors visited on them."

Does that conviction include protecting children from being aborted?

the number one reason why there are atheist, agnostics, and secularist is..........christianity.

there is not this problem in islamic societies

How interesting it is that the meaning of "Jesus Son of God" is that we are to protect little children from war, genocide, and many other abuses, but not apparently from abortion.

The reason for the season is that satan convinced
adam and eve not to trust God, Satan said eat of
the fruit of the tree of Good and Evil, You will not die, it will make you like God,
He knows this, you can't trust him.
They listened to Satan and ate, Saying in the
act we do not trust God.

God being angry with satan said, I will
put enmity between her seed and you, He will crush
your head and you will bruse his heal.
God predicted a virgin birth.
God predicted a fight between Satan and him

Do you Trust him?

God cursed Eve, You will have great pain in
Child birth.
And your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.

Do you Trust him ?

God cursed Adam, Cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18: thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you.

He said Men you will work for a living, and no matter how much you have you will never have enough.

And to both of them , In the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to
dust you shall return.

Do you trust him yet ?

You have the same chance Adam and Eve had,
God says trust me. God through the prophets
prodicted the birth, to the year and in the city.

God says trust me.

Christmas is about her seed in Jesus the christ,
The virgin birth.

Easter is about Emity between Jesus the Christ
and Satan,

AS you can see God comes to us just like Adam
and Eve, and says ;

Do you trust me ?

God says to you I gave you my word written in
the Bible I kept it as I said it since I said it.
as verified by the dead sea scrolls.

Do You Trust Me ?

He ends his book to us by saying ;
18: I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
19: and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

God says If you don't trust me, you will add to
the bible your own sinful way and when you die
you will have added to your plagues in the place
prepared for the devil and his angels.

God just askes One thing of you with his help

Trust Me

I know that my redeemer lives what sweet comfort
that sentence gives.

Reminds me of a bunch of people around a bowl of mixed nuts...picking and choosing their favorite. Why was Jesus born where and when? Fulfilled prophecy. Why was He born of a virgin? Without the virgin birth there can be no Savior, has had He been hatched in the normative way He would have inherited sin even as we all do. Are there parts of the Bible that are hard to understand? Duh. But as Mark Twain said (though he was a long way from a follower of Christ) in response to people who say they don't understand the Bible - "I don't think it is the parts they don't understand that bother them."
Those who detest/hate/find the Christian faith moronic (which is what the Bible says, by the way..."the preaching of the cross is to them that perish moronic") are obviously entitled to their belief system...many of their observations are, in fact, valid. But why, oh why, do they have to be so vicious? Oh, yeah, the Bible says that would happen also.

Although, I agree with Thistlethwaite's final point of treating each child as sacred and precious, I'm not sure I understand what "the risk God took in coming in vulnerable baby flesh" even is?

If the God is omnipotent and omnipresent, then what risk is there. Sure, Herod could have killed the physical form of Jesus, just as Pilate did later, but how would have hurt the all-powerful, all-present God?

This is why I'm a polytheist and a pantheist who doesn't subscribe to the omni-God of the Abrahamic faiths.

Although, I agree with Thistlethwaite's final point of treating each child as sacred and precious, I'm not sure I understand what "the risk God took in coming in vulnerable baby flesh" even is?

If the God is omnipotent and omnipresent, then what risk is there. Sure, Herod could have killed the physical form of Jesus, just as Pilate did later, but how would have hurt the all-powerful, all-present God?

This is why I'm a polytheist and a pantheist who doesn't subscribe to the omni-God of the Abrahamic faiths.

Sufficient evidence exists in support of evolution to convince 99.85% of America's earth and life scientists that the theory is valid. Evolution is the key unifying theory that unifies many different branches of science, from cosmology to biology. These statements came from religioustolerance.org

FACT: An observation that all (or almost all) scientists agree is correct.

By this definition, evolution IS a FACT! I challenge any of you to find anything that 99.85% of scientists agree upon as fact to be wrong.

Many religious people that I've talked to agree that evolution and the Bible cannot both be true. Although, I am guessing that, in order for religion to survive, religious people will adapt and make excuses for how these two things can both be true. This has been the history of many religions, to reinterpret as science proves parts of their religion, "as is", wrong.

It is astounding to think about all of the times that science has forced Christianity, for example, to reinterpret what they believed they previously "knew" to be true.

Correction to my previous post:
    Glen Chalkley caught me in an error. I stated that there is no mention of "Jesus" as the "son of God" in the Synoptic Gospels. What I should have stated, instead, is that in the Synoptic Gospels "Jesus" does not identify himself that way. "Jesus" identifies himself as "the son of man." But the title "son of God" is bestowed upon him by others in Matthew and Mark.
    Here, for those interested in this subject, are some accurate figures on "Jesus" identifications in the four gospels - the three Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) and the Gospel According to John: Lamb of God, son of Abraham, and Son of the Holy Spirit, one time each. Messiah twice. Holy One of God three times. Ruler of Israel or King of Israel five times. Prophet and Rabbi eight times each. Master ten times. Son of David 14 times. King of the Jews 16 times. "The Christ" - English substitute for Hebrew and Greek words meaning messiah - 34 times. Teacher 34 times. "Lord," which in the four gospels means only one of high standing and not God, though it does mean that later in the New Testament, 57 times. Son of God 25 times. Son of man 83 times.
    Those are the identifications of the major "Jesus" of the English-language New Testament in the four gospels. You also need to know that there are four distinct characters in English-language versions of the New Testament named "Jesus." But the major "Jesus" is the only one referred to as "christ" (messiah).
    Hoping this information is useful to you, Burton H. Wolfe. (You will find tons of other useful information on the subject in my ebook "The Case Against Jesus." Visit http://burtonsbooks.com.)

One thing is for sure. Christians need to be on guard against evil within their ranks, as demonstrated by the behavior of Representative Virgil Goode of Virginia. I hope there is uproar within Christian circles about his religious hatemongering. He doesn't deserve to be called an American.

There is a war taking place within Christianity between the Christianists and moderate Christians, just as there is within Islam between Islamists and moderate Muslims. I hope Christians take notice and speak up about this kind of thing. They can't just focus on Islam.

"Do you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God? If so, what exactly does that mean? If not, who was he?"

No. Anyone who does must prove two assertions:

1. That God exists.

2. That God procreates and somehow produces a son.

The concept is meaningless.

Jesus was a Jew, possibly a revolutionary, who did not confine himself to doctrine and dogma, had some influence among the populace of his time, opposed the status quo and was affective enough to warrant execution by the religious and political power elete of his time. . . Today, he might be a simple Palestinian who might influence the Israeli public to such an extent that both the Palestinian and Israeli power eletes would simply kill him because he posed too great a threat to their status.

E Favorite, skeptic :) So Paul Harvey deals in myth?

That story has to be absolute truth. Paul Harvey wouldn't tell us anything less than "the rest of the story" :(

I'll bet you are just as skeptical of Rush. .)

To Gregg Davis - Please consider that perhaps the Paul Harvey Bird story was made up.

Aaha! Science, the best evidence for God there is! I accept that challenge, Mr Dawkins fan. Several years back while at the Smithsonian in the Space section there was/is? an exhibit of a person on a blanket having a picnic. The scene whisks away at a rapid rate of speed until the view is from orbit, from the moon, from planetary distance and on and on until the earth disappears, the Milky Way appears and then disappears into an oblivion of other stars. An amazing "trip"! But then it reverses and goes quickly back to the eye of the person at the picnic, into the amazing human body, into the bloodstream and down to the cells, DNA, molecules and orbiting protons-looking so much like micoscopic solar systems with orbiting "planets". An amazing but "true" story that just a 100 or so years ago no one would believe. Why, well because they "couldn't see it". It is just too fabulous to believe people would have said...and since you have no proof...
But here is the kicker....a recent commercial shows a large rock at the edge of the sea shore getting hit with wave after wave,severe storms, even lightening and wearing away...into ....low and behold...a cell phone. That is a great illustration to help a skeptic who is a little bit seeker. All of us know that the rock could never turn into a cell phone but yet that is very comparable to what evolutionists say. How could something so amazing as the universe and life all happen from nothing.....at least the cell phone had a rock to begin with. Where did the stuff come from for the Big Bang?
The answer is that there is an intelligent designer behind our universe...and it's not some alien. The Bible (in Romans) says that the creation itself screams of God so that no one has an excuse. I invite you to look up on a clear, starry night and know that God is.
He's there wanting you to know Him...not waiting there to "get you". It's the "other guy" that is out to get us and in fact does get all who in the end choose against God and His amazing offer of love. An offer to take the wrap for each of us so we don't have to pay a price that we can't afford to pay. Now is the best time ever to know Him. I suggest you start your journey now as I mention above!
May God bless you all!

Gregg Davis
World Relief

Your Bible states that women should remain silent in the churches, that it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. See 1 Corinthians 14:26-35 NIV.

I don't understand the appeal of the Bible for women, when it talks about them this way. Don't you ever ask yourself why there aren't more women higher up in the hierarchy of your religion? Has there ever been or will there ever be a female Pope, I don't think so!

I think that most rational people, when educated with both sides at a young age, will simply discard the Bible as fairy tales with outdated morals. Many of the stories in the Bible aren't even original, you will find proof of this on many skeptic and hoax-busting web sites.

It is saddening to me to see that people, when brainwashed from a young age, become too stubborn and ignorant to change, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Let's use our intelligence to gain a better understanding of ourselves and our universe through science, not to think of different ways to worship an imaginary god. Question your faith, do research on both sides.

Thank you. :)

Thank you Reverend for a lovely posting. As one of my favorite christian songs says about Jesus: He walked a mile in my shoes, He was no stranger to my pain. When I pray to Jesus, I am not praying to a distant deity that sits up on high but to God that cared enough about me to come to my world and walk a mile in my shoes.
Greg Davis, thank you for your posting and for all the work that you do to help the less fortunate, in obedience to God.
Merry Christmas.

Susan -- Christian children are taught in Sunday School that Jesus is the son of God. This message is reinforced in church throughout adulthood.

Your response is lovely, but is not clear.

Please tell us, do you or do you not believe that Jesus is the son of God? That is, is God the father of Jesus, in the simple way that people understand parenthood?

Thank you.

Paul Harvey tells a story that is very good.
He relates that a man living in the North on a farm about 50 years ago declined to go to Christmas eve services with his wife as he "couldn't be a hypocrit" and go to church when the Jesus story just didn't make sense to him and he didn't believe it. Later that night he sat in front of the fireplace with a good book when a snowstorm and numbing cold weather suddenly hit. He then heard thumps hitting his picture window and went to his porch. There he saw birds trying to fly in his warm inviting home and get in out of the miserable weather. They kept hitting into the glass and were hurting themselves but in their desperation wouldn't give up. He had compassion on them and decided that he would open his barn and and let them fly in there for protection. He walked out and opened the barn, turned on the lights, even put a trail of bread crumbs and then even jumped up and down and hollered to try to get their attention and to come to the safe, warm barn....but each of these efforts was to no avail. The birds couldn't understand him, feared him and would not come. Finally the farmer thought "if I could just become a bird, then I could communicate wiith them and show them the way"....just then the farmer sank to his knees in the snow as he realized how God had done just that for us....not as a bird but a man. The "God man" became flesh so he could show us the way to safety, to life, to light. The way out of darkness, death and confusion.

My prayer is that each of you will be open to God working with you this Christmas. He tells us that "If we seek Him with all our hearts", we will find Him". Please try to seek Him, not rationalize Him away. My prayer is that you test Him by honestly seeking Him.... by giving your best efforts over this Christmas. Pray sincerely to Him to reveal Himslef to you, then open His Word and read the book of John. Then go back and re-read chapter 3. Be open to what He will do for you.
May God bless you!
Gregg Davis
Florida Director
World Relief

Sister Susan:

That's a lovely story even if it's fiction. The true story of the birth of the person on who's life Jesus was based, Amenophis IV was also a miracle. It happened during a storm with rain, hail, thunder and lightening. Tiye, (Mary) had nothing more than the clothes on her back that were nothing much even though she was a real queen. There was no shelter and it was a pitch black dark night. She birthed her daughter alive in spite of it all.

Since you are familiar with the accepted story of the birth of the son of God, Jesus then perhaps you would like to compare it to the birth of "the Amen" of Revelation, AMENophis IV. It's on page 2 at http://www.hoax-buster.org I think the star of Bethlehem is actually lightening, "a light as bright as day that shone both night and day." So there was some minimal relief for Queen Tiye, intermittent light.

When she brought the baby "from the river" (Moses'd it) she had to explain where she got it, the king Amenophis III had been absent for an extended period. Some said the baby fell from the sky, the son of the God, Amun Re, the sun, that it "came from the father" and "was one being with the father."

As a woman you may resent the notion that the father of Jesus was God while the mother was not God. The "Hail Mary" actually says otherwise, that Mary was "blessed" meaning God. Do you agree?

The real point of the story is the hypocrisy of the church elders who wanted to show off their nativity instead of helping poor children. This s the problem with the many lunatics that run churches. The real words of Jesus are ignored and the actions reflect the egos of men and women greedy for power.

This is ;nonsernse. Absolute nonsense.
However, the Christmas story is lovely and children love it, so I dare not change on word.
Is the story true?
The onlhy answer is: "We don't know."
Why did God pick an obscure Jewish Virgin>?
Why Jewish?
Why 2,000 years ago? Why not 10,000 years ago?
Why did God go to all this trouble to change the world He had made. I could suggest otherand better solutions than the Christmas story. But then, it is a lovely story. It would make a great movie.
However, it doesn';t make sense!
Christianity does not make sense. I wish minister and priests would say: "We don't know, however, we believe......"
Baby Jesus? Did baby Jesus know He was God?
Did that brat in the temple who, after his parents had been frantically looking for him. gave them a lecture on His duties? I would hqve beltted Him.
Will I go to Mass Christmas Day? YES!
Why? Sister Blanche told me to long ago and if Sister said, then it must be true.

James Whalen
President
Irish catholic Existential Society

Enjoyed your entry today. The advent is certainly a wonderful time to think and reflect about what it means that the Christ child came into this world a baby, lived as a revolutionary and died as a martyr. Has he made the same impact on our lives?

Susan:
    All you have done is add another fairy tale to the fairy tales in what you, as a self-professed "Christian," refer to as a "bible." In doing so, you have evaded the question which has been posted. The question is whether or not "Jesus Christ" (Joshua the Messiah)
actually was the "son of God."
    Assuming you believe in that claptrap, it is incumbent upon you to answer some questions: Since "God" is such an omnipotent being that "he" can create a man out of dust and a woman out of the man's rib, why would he bother to put "himself" in vitro in a mortal woman's womb in order to bring "himself" to earth to "save humanity"? If the major "Jesus" (of four distinct characters named "Jesus" in the English-language New Testament) was the "son of God," why is he referred to in the Synoptic Gospels only as "the son of man"? (He is called "the son of man" 83 times, and he is referred to in much lesser numbers as "King of the Jews", as "the son of David," as the "son of Abraham," as a "rabbi", and as a "teacher.") Finally, what evidence can you produce to prove that this character, whose name is so preposterously Anglicised, actually even existed?
    And do not try to hide behind the old saw that nothing in the "bible" need be proved because it is "the word of God." You are one of many who has eviscerated that defense by producing your own version of the Judaeo-Christian "bible" in which you drastically alter the scriptures. A "bible" is defined as the fixed, immutable "word of God." Since you and thousands of other mortal human beings over the centuries have consistently altered the words, how do you support such writings as "the word of God"?
    You have a lot of explaining to do, Susan.
-Burton H. Wolfe

I'm not entirley certain where the two comments preceding this one originated from because they certainly are unrelated to the elegant reflection of Reverend Thistlethwaite.

Jesus was not a politician and definitely not a feminist. So please leave him out of your own agenda.

Thank you
Peter

Said apochrophyte also siad to pary in yoru closet. So what are you doing here?