I love everyone in my family but I dont like them or everything they do all the time. Similarly, I love the church but I dont always like all the members, clergy included, or everything the do all the time.
The people of the church are all human, subject to the same sinfulness as all humans.

Donna Freitas;

I enjoyed your post, and have nothing but sympathy for your plight. But you know, the very definition of indoctrination is that it's nearly impossible to overcome. To be raised to believe something - when all around you also believe - is usually quite overwhelming, and becomes in one's own mind the very truth of existence; something one cannot live without. Look at our Muslim cousins, or Hindus, or any others who have been raised to believe things that you and I 'know' are plainly untrue. Would you praise them for being stubbornly unmovable faith-wise? Personally I believe it is very sad that we cling so defiantly to what our parents and peers insisted was the one great truth, when maybe it's no truth at all.

Having pondered the things I was taught to believe as a child - I eventually saw that I was simply as mistaken as the 9/11 terrorists, who were so certain that Allah existed, and was waiting for them in Paradise (with virgins for all) that they destroyed themselves and thousands of innocent others - just because they were raised to believe that such nonsense was a reality. We can be brought up to believe anything when all around us believe it too. Give it some thought Donna. You can live without it. What I learned is that freedom is better than a fixed belief in some deity or other, who almost certainly never existed; just like the celestial virgins that the terrorists thought were real, and died for.

Castellina,

"Do you believe that the persecution and killing of Catholics after the Reformation especially in England (see St. Thomas Moore and innumerable other martyrs) was justified?"

No. Protestantism - my inherited faith - was and is wrong in so many ways, not least because it has been murderous and divisive. That's why I have come to disown it. I have less tolerance for "shady" history than you.

"It's rather sad since we believe in the same God an our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Well, you're definitely wrong there.

Why did today's pope, prelates, preachers and rabbis, so focused on society's sexual sins, lose sight of clerical sexual sins?
"
FEAR, SHAME and GUILT and COVER IT ALL UP!!!

From: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1855948_1861760_1862212,00.html#ixzz0jg0lEyZj

“Facing calls to curb child sex abuse within its churches, in June the Southern Baptist Convention — the largest U.S. religious body after the Catholic Church — urged local hiring committees to conduct federal background checks but rejected a proposal to create a central database of staff and clergy who have been either convicted of or indicted on charges of molesting minors. The SBC decided against such a database in part because its principle of local autonomy means it cannot compel individual churches to report any information. And while the headlines regarding churches and pedophilia remain largely focused on Catholic parishes, the lack of hierarchical structure and systematized record-keeping in most Protestant churches makes it harder not only for church leaders to impose standards, but for interested parties to track allegations of abuse."

www.eutimes.net/category/criticism/pedophilia/

"Yet another prominent Orthodox rabbi has been charged with sexual abuse. This time it is Rabbi Mordechai Elon, one of the foremost rabbinic leaders of the Israeli Orthodox movement and former rosh yeshiva at the flagship Yeshivat HaRav, where last year a Palestinian mounted an assault which left several students dead. The result was that students of the yeshiva and other far right Jews went on a rampage and tried to burn down the home of the family of the perpetrator of the attack. Elon’s brother is Benny, a former MK for a far-right pro-settler party.

At one time the rabbi was so renowned he’d hoped to be named chief rabbi. Alas, that hope is all but dashed as he was charged several years ago with abusing boys at his yeshiva:
Takana, a rabbinic forum established in 2003 to clamp down on sexual misconduct by Orthodox educators, went public February 15 with allegations that Mordechai “Moti” Elon had taken advantage of his influence over male students and performed “acts at odds with sacred and moral values.”

The panel later said that two people, whose complaints alleged acts from about 25 years ago, had been under 18 at the time. More recent alleged acts involved students of Elon who were 18 or older. Since its initial disclosure, the panel reports having received one more complaint of an alleged underage encounter…
What is unusual about this case is that a splinter group of the Orthodox community is taking the position that the entire prosecution is an attempt to destroy rabbinic authority and the Orthodox movement. It calls for refusal to cooperate with state authorities (or to deal with the charge through a beyt din)."

Obviously ordination in any religion is not assurance of good behavior !!!!!

Meanwhile, "defiant Catholics, like Donna tell us of all that has "changed" and how successful "zero tolerance, established in the US in 2002 has been"

CNN) -- Vatican officials failed to take action against a priest accused of sexually abusing two teenage girls in Minnesota despite repeated warnings from a local bishop starting in 2005, attorneys for one of the alleged victims said Monday.

The Vatican's failure occurred despite the establishment of safeguards established four years earlier to deal with the growing abuse scandal inside the Catholic Church, they said.

The priest -- Father Joseph Pavanivel Jeyapaul of Ootacamund, India -- served in a diocese in Crookston, Minnesota, for a little more than a year in 2004 and 2005, according to church documents unearthed in a lawsuit related to the case. Complaint letters from Crookston Bishop Victor Balke to Rome were acknowledged by Vatican officials, but no disciplinary action was taken, the documents show.

Jeyapaul is now the head of a church education commission in Ootacamund, giving him continued access to children, lawyers said.

"This is systematic. All roads ... lead to Rome and the top officials there," said Jeff Anderson, a St. Paul, Minnesota, attorney representing the alleged victim.

"As horrific as the rape of children by Jeyapaul is ... the coverup of it is every bit as horrific and criminal."

Father Louis Rag, bishop secretary of the Ootacamund Diocese, confirmed Monday that Jeyapaul is still in Ootacamund. He refused to comment further, except to note that he had heard about the charges against Jeyapaul through media reports.

Anderson revealed the church documents at a news conference in St. Paul. The county attorney's office for Roseau County, Minnesota, is trying to extradite Jeyapaul from India.

The Crookston Diocese first received reports of "inappropriate behavior" on the part of Jeyapaul in September 2005, according to a letter Balke sent four months later to Cardinal William Levada, head of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, a body established to deal with cases of alleged abuse.

Pope Benedict XVI headed the congregation before being chosen to lead the Roman Catholic Church.

Part II

Balke wrote that according to an internal investigation, Jeyapaul took a teenage girl to his rectory in the summer of 2005, where "he proceeded to kiss her repeatedly, pulling her on top of him and at one point touching her beneath her clothing."

Balke also said in the letter that Jeyapaul had misappropriated "a substantial amount of money belonging to the parish and also attempted to give a diocesan vehicle to a third party as payment for an outstanding debt."

The bishop went on to warn the Vatican that it is "impossible to say that Father Jeyapaul does not at present pose a risk to minors."

"I cannot in good conscience allow this matter to be passed over" simply because Jeyapaul has now returned to India, Balke said. "In my mind, that would be a shameful act of betrayal towards the women and girls in India to whom Fr. Jeyapaul could at present pose a serious risk."

A representative for Levada responded to Balke's letter in May 2006, acknowledging his complaint and writing that the Vatican had requested to church officials in India that "Father Jeyapaul's priestly life be monitored so that he does not constitute a risk to minors and does not create a scandal among the faithful."

Six months later, Balke relayed a new series of allegations about Jeyapaul to Levada. Balke wrote that he had received reports "of similar behavior having taken place between Fr. Jeyapaul and a second girl."

In both instances, Balke wrote, Jeyapaul had been counseling the girls about their religious lives.

Church officials once again acknowledged Balke's letter but took no disciplinary or other action against Jeyapaul, the documents show.

Anderson accused Vatican officials Monday of being more concerned with preserving their own reputations than with protecting children.

"We are sad because so many kids have been wounded and hurt because Catholic officials -- top Catholic officials from the Vatican on down ... don't get it and remain in denial," he said.

"They have a problem. ... They fail to do what is necessary to protect children across the globe."

ONOFRIO, No I do not think that such killing is justified. Do you believe that the persecution and killing of Catholics after the Reformation especially in England (see St. Thomas Moore and innumerable other martyrs) was justified?
I suspect not but it's history, it happened and no one can change that. All religions have their shady sides.

PAM SM With due respect I believe that you are taking snippets out of context to validate your points.
In question here is not the proper Bible in latin or the vulgate but the distorted versions of it that circulated in order to justify some heresies.
In the council of Trent the "Decree Concerning the Edition And Use Of the Sacred Books" says: "...To check unbridedled spirits,it decrees that no one shall DISTORT the Holy Scriptures in accordance with his own conceptions..."
For the same reason a restraint is imposed on the printing of such books which "...Are printed indiscriminately, often with the name of the press omitted, or under a fictitiuos press-name or without the name of the author...".
You also say that the Bible was placed on the index of forbidden books at the council of Toulouse in 1229. That would have been a little difficult considering that the Index of forbidden books was estabilished in 1543. You can check that in the same book you mention by Karl Keating on page 45. As for the quote you mention please read it in its entirety to see that Karl Keating makes the same points I made regarding the council of Toulouse.
On the Index were placed the erroneous versions of the Bible. To say that the Bible itself was placed on it is so ludicrous since it would have meant that, since our Liturgy is rooted in the Scriptures, Catholics would have read in Church something that was in the forbidden books index!
As for Liguori I assume you mean Alphonsus Liguori who was indeed a laywer but became a Catholic Bishop, a theologian and the founder of the Redemptorists. He wrote extensively so I have no idea where you got that quote from, but I suspect it was in the same context of heretical versions since he fought Jansenism in his writings.
Look, I have had similar debates with my Protestant friends ad nauseam so I know I am not going to convince you and you are certainly not going to convince me. It's rather sad since we believe in the same God an our Saviour Jesus Christ. But I suppose that is also the most important thing. Thank you for your insights.

castellina wrote "At every Mass we proclaim in the Creed that the Church is "Catholic and Apostolic" meaning it is founded on the Apostles and we believe the college of Bishops, priests and the Pope are the successors of the original Apostles. "

This is probably the biggest lie of all time. The Catholic definition of saints (pope appointed and not born-again Christians) , salvation (by the sword or coercion and not by grace), etc. are opposite to what all the apostles and Christ taught. For centuries they banned the reading of the Bible which are the words of the apostles and Christ.

When will the Catholics learn that they are part of the devil's religion?

"You have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not apostles. You have discovered that they are LIARS." (Rev. 2:2)

You have discovered that they are LIARS
You have discovered that they are LIARS

What Blindness? WHat Stubborn Stupidity?

Thanks for the clarification of how laity were forbidden to read the Bible and make up their own minds.

About reading comments opposing the article and having them change the mind of a Catholic: They probably won't, in most cases.

I think most intelligent and educated Christians know creationism is just plain wrong, but they are themselves impossible to sway with similar reasoning. This is an emotional thing. If you really need your faith, if you deeply fear losing it and ending up realizing there is no God, that the skies are, so to speak, empty - you will let your brain halt and you will refuse to use it.

It's a bit the same with racism, be it open and cruel or silent and hidden. An intelligent person will not admit to being a racist, because we have finally come that far regarding common sense, but their private feelings may say something else.

The Bible was placed on Rome's Index of Forbidden Books list by the Council of Toulouse/Toledo in the year 1229. It remained there until the index was discontinued at Vatican Council II. Anyone reading or owning a 'forbidden' book was anathematized, or cursed and remanded to hell for doing so.

Canon 14 from the Council of Toulouse says that the Roman Catholic Church:

"Forbids the laity to have in their possession any copy of the books of the Old and New Testament.... and most strictly forbids these works in the vulgar tongue."

Roman Catholic apologist Karl Keating confirms this fact when he writes that, "the bishops at Toulouse restricted the use of the Bible until the [Albigensian] heresy was ended." (Page 45, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, by Karl Keating). The peculiar thing is that the Bible remained on the Index of Forbidden Books for another 730 years.

This teaching was confirmed at the Council of Trent (Session IV, April 8, 1546 Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures). The Council of Trent went further, stating that anyone who dared study Scriptures on their own must "be punished with the penalties by law established." With incredible audacity, the Council of Trent went so far as to forbid even the printing of and sale of the Bible! Anyone daring to violate this decree was anathematized, or cursed and damned to Hell for it. (Dogmatic Cannons and Decrees of the Council of Trent..., pages 11-13; Copyright 1977, 1912, with Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat. Tan Books and Publishers, P.O. Box 424, Rockford, IL 61105)

Liguori, the most respected of Canon Lawyers in the Roman Catholic Church, wrote that, "The Scriptures and books of Controversy may not be permitted in the vulgar tongue, as also they cannot be read without permission."

Pope Clement XI (1713), in his bull Unigenitus, wrote that "We strictly forbid them [the laity] to have the books of the Old and New Testament in the vulgar tongue."

Oh, come on, Castellina. You're welcome to your opinions, but you don't get to make up your own facts. The desire for a vernacular bible was precisely how protestantism came about.

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac66

Ok, let's wrap this up. What's the count? I would say a majority (about 10 to 1) were in the opposition. There were 2 or 3 commenters that were really outlyers (or crazies, would be a better word). I'm impressed with the few who, although they were in opposition, really gave intelligent ideas and contributed to a good discussion. The remainder - that's the 10% of us who defended the Catholic Church - remained as we were going into the discussion, and unmoved, much like the author.

Castellina,

Do you think the killing of those who conscientiously dissent from a Catholic consensus (heretics, if you will) - like the Albigensian Cathars - was and is justifiable?

PAM SM, The council of Toulouse was held to address a particular kind of virulent heresy called Albigensian heresy which was spreading in the South of France. According to such heresy marriage was evil because the flesh is evil and all kinds of things were declared acceptable, like suicide etc.since you only kill what is evil. This heresy was based on a distorted interpretation of a vernacular Bible peculiar to the South of France. The Toulouse council was NOT ecumenical meaning it did not affect the rest of the Catholic world but only the place were such heresy was taking place ie. South of France.
In order to stop such heresy there was an order--NOT a doctrine as you say--to restrict the private use of the Bible. It only affected southern France and the force of the order disappeared as the heresy did too. It was certainly not in force for "centuries" as you say. If you read the lives of the saints who lived around that era (for example St.Catherine of Siena who lived in the mid 1300)you can see that they happily read and gloriously spread the word of God.

Enough!

Enough Catholic sniveling, weak apologizing, demonizing the victims and lame whining "Others do it, too"

Know and recognize the symptoms of a priest "grooming" or molesting children:

http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_pedophiles_groom_victims

Report suspicious behavior by priests to the FBI, the US Attorney or the National Child Abuse Hotline:

http://www.childhelp.org/pages/hotline

1-800-4-A-CHILD

DO NOT report the problem the the diocese, Catholic DAs or police departments with Catholic lieutenants, captains and/or chiefs.

It's time we put this church on notice that their pervert molesters and their criminal accomplices will now be investigated and prosecuted by US Justice. It's time to take a stand and say enough.

What Blindness, What Stubborn Stupidity!!

castellina wrote "At every Mass we proclaim in the Creed that the Church is "Catholic and Apostolic" meaning it is founded on the Apostles and we believe the college of Bishops, priests and the Pope are the successors of the original Apostles. "

This is probably the biggest lie of all time. The Catholic definition of saints (pope appointed and not born-again Christians) , salvation (by the sword or coercion and not by grace), etc. are opposite to what all the apostles and Christ taught. For centuries they banned the reading of the Bible which are the words of the apostles and Christ.

When will the Catholics learn that they are part of the devil's religion?

"You have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not apostles. You have discovered that they are LIARS." (Rev. 2:2)

You have discovered that they are LIARS
You have discovered that they are LIARS

What Stubborn Stupidity!

Garoth, Thank you for your comments on my post, they are well taken. I agree that the Church needs to respond in "a Christ-like" manner. Unfortunately people have different expectations regarding such a response and pleasing everyone is just about impossible. I think the defensive attitude you speak of is the visceral revultion we Catholics feel at the personal attacks on the Pope. I do not lay the blame on liberals but you do have to admit that some of the liberal media has jumped on the bandwagon, taking advantage of this crisis to blame the Church for everything that is wrong in the world. Changes were made and rules were laid out in the American Church when the abuse scandal erupted in the US so, yes, changes need to be made to address these new cases as well. However I don't agree with you that a dismantelling of the institutional structures would "reinvent" the Church. The Catholic Curch is a multi-layered intitution and what outsiders see as rigidity or too much symbolism or antiquated traditions are part of her lifeblood. Take away the magisterium of the Church and you have another "do your own thing" church,certainly not the Catholic Church. At every Mass we proclaim in the Creed that the Church is "Catholic and Apostolic" meaning it is founded on the Apostles and we believe the college of Bishops, priests and the Pope are the successors of the original Apostles. Such college had been much maligned lately--in some cases with good cause--but human frailty goes as far back as Peter denying our Lord three times. So let's cut the Church some slack, let's give her time to come up with a solution to this awful problem. People who expect changes in major stances though ie. ordination of women, birth control, rules about celibacy of priests etc. will be disappointed. It is not going to happen.

Donna,

Good Luck and God Bless! You are indeed entering a lion's den comprised of fundamentalists who hate Catholics on one side, and atheists who hate it on the other. There are those of us who have chosen to remain, and we appreciate what you are trying to do.

"The incredible ignorance of some of the comments regarding the Catholic Church can only be explained by the fact that most probably these people have never set foot in a Catholic Church and are completely unaware of her history. One poster proclaims that the Church forbade the reading of the Bible--the Catholic Church COMPILED the first Bible and our liturgy is ALL rooted in the Bible."

Wow, Castellina, methinks it's the pot calling the kettle black about ignorance of Catholic history.

It's not often that I agree with Spidey about anything, but he's called this one correctly - the Catholic church did not, for many centuries, allow the laity to read or own bibles. People had to rely on the clergy to tell them what was contained within, and to interpret it for them. Naked power.

The council held in Toulouse in 1229 prohibited reading the bible in the vernacular. Laymen were prohibited from owning any portion of a bible, in any language, except for the psalms.

The doctrine read: "it is forbidden for laymen (common man) to read the Old and New Testaments. - We forbid them most severely to have the above books in the popular vernacular. The lords of the districts shall carefully seek out the heretics in dwellings, hovels, and forests, and even their underground retreats shall be entirely wiped out."

"THE STUBBORN CATHOLIC: Donna Freitas
NEW BLOG: 'I'm still here'
Despite the Church's struggle and my own, I remain defiantly, stubbornly and hopefully Catholic."

And how the hierarchy depends on the defiant, stubborn hopeful (I.E. stupid) sheep who shut up and do what they are told to do and think what they are told to think and never question authority lest their souls be dammed to hell. It's all about the power of the magic as any witch doctor can attest.

If a police officer committed murder, and if the officers who worked with her and who supervised her covered it up, I would want them all arrested, charged, tried fairly, and appropriately punished. If my house was broken into during all of this trial, I would still call the police; I still need the rule of law to prevail and for officers of the law to do their job.

My point is that we cannot dismiss our faith because of the sins (and serious crimes) of a minority. We Catholics believe that our Church is the Church that Jesus commanded - thus it is core to our being. We can no more abandon it now than a victim of police corruption could abandon the rule of law. It astonishes me how athiests, secularists, and, unfortunately, some Christians do not understand the difference between individual staff and the wider purpose of the institution. The Church is not a social club; it is not just a place to hang out on Sunday; it is not just the priests and laity. It is so much more. I pray for Pope Benedict XVI as he leads us forward in our faith; I pray for the wonderful priests and other clergy guidng us; I pray for the victims of the minority; and I pray for the perpetrators to repent and, if still active, to cease committing sins.

castellina, please do not blame the problem on the "liberals" or church-haters (although there are certainly enough of the latter in these blogs, aren't there!). I am a "liberal," (probably more so than most), but certainly donot wish to see the church harmed. Many, like me, would like to see a strong and vibrant Catholic church, but see also that there are some issues that need to be addressed. The problem of pedophile priests, while horrible in itself, is symptomatic. The church can change without giving up what is truly important to its life, and what is life-affirming to those like you.

The church will not fade away. Its staying-power resides in its message however, not in its institutional structures. If those structures were to disappear entirely, the church would "reinvent" itself (somtimes I think this wold be a good thing - maybe it would lose some of the baggage it carries that keeps people from actually listening to its message!). If the Vatican listens to what is happening, and responds in a humble and Christ-like way, rather than simply trying to defend itself, it can come out the other side with a stronger and more authentic message. If not, it will become simply another step toward irrelevance.

Thank you for your column. I am Lutheran (you might read, "not Catholic"), and, though we also are a church of some ritual, certainly we do not rival the Catholic church in that regard. I respect the traditions of the Catholic church, and understand that they can be life-affirming for many. Many years ago, Luther tried to introduce some reforms that he saw were needed, both in the practice and theology of the church. He never wanted to leave it - just reform it. Some of those same things hav come back now to haunt it. I hope, this time, that those reform are made, so that you, and so many other Catholics who love their church do not have to bear Church-induced scars. There are plenty of those outside the church who are all-too-willing to crucify. The church should be a place where scars are healed, not caused.

Dear Donna and other defenders of their faith:

It's not about your fath or your brand of religion.

The latest smack down on the Catholic Church is directly related to the actions of some leaders of the Church, not or beliefs.

These men have done everything under the sun to cover up decades of abuse and worse by priests.

These leaders seem to be taking their playbook from the Morman Chuch, another example of a male dominated faith who will do anything the to "protect it" (read "The Morman Murders" for examples).

What is so infuriating to those outside the Catholic Church is the Church's unwillingness to formally, loudly and fearlessly crack down on these priests who abuse children.

Why is it so hard for the church to confess its sins, repent, and make things right?

Covering up, denial, obfuscation and lying are the cowards way out.

It takes real men to admit their mistakes and correct them.

And where are the lay Catholics? Why are they not demanding this coverup end? Why are they not refusing to fund the church until it stops thiese crimes?

Until the church does a Jimmy Swaggert and airs it's dirty laundry in toto, we'll all suspect the coverup and the crimes continue.

I can appreciate the notion that you had more good experiences than bad, but it sounds as if you are choosing the comfort of tradition over asking the Church to change.

You simply can't expect it change when people keep going there, making excuses, and providing donations as if nothing had happened....as if there weren't a wide-spread cover up of horrifying numbers of child sex assaults.

Ms Freitas,
Peter Pan syndrome refers to any adult whose emotional life has remained at an adolescent level, with too great a dependency on the mother, in your case your Mother Church.
You probably believe that our planet was made in six days. You prefer to live in a fantasy word and avoid reality. Do you know that science has proved that the Book of Genesis should not be taken literally, ergo: the entire Bible, including the NT, should not be taken literally. It's up to you, but many of us find happiness in being adults, not Peter Pans.

Alan,

Has it occurred to you that you're probably attending the wrong church? Participation in a church should bring you joy, comfort and reasonable spiritual challenge rather than be a slog of suffering and endurance - especially when it's brought on by your fellow congregants.

Donna, thanks for your wonderful words. I look forward to your future posts! I enjoyed how you kicked off this blog, very fitting.

I can relate to your experiences in some way. I have been hurt by people in the Contemporary Evangelical Christian Church. I’ve been judged for not fitting the mold, alienated for having different perspectives, and hurt emotionally and spiritually by these events.

In your post you offer a perspective I was not open to hear or accept; that the people in the Christian Church hurt me, not the actual Church. Now I could play with words and argue that the people are the Church and if they have done wrong so has the Church. But there is no productive function to that line of though. I thank you for helping me to perceive my situation through this new lens, which I hope will help the healing of my wounds.

Thank you.
Alan

I too am a Catholic who has struggled over the years with the many contradictions of the church.
My mother, a devout Irish Catholic who has not missed a daily mass in YEARs in Ireland is a staunch defender of the church.
My father, a very lapsed Irish Catholic who was abused mentally, physically and probably sexually as a child in an Irish Catholic Orphanage.
I was brought up mostly in Ireland, with the fear of GOD put into me every weekend by the Church. Forever was I afraid I was going to hell in a handbasket. I was made to believe that I was a bad person because I swore occasionally or because I hit my little brother on the head. As I grew and became a little rebelious, my mother would take me to the Priest and it was humiliating as he would tear me apart for being a teenage.
So I drifted away from the Church. But I still held on to that moral fiber instilled in me. I to this day cannot cheat a person, try to be scrupulously honest, and over the years, have been trying to return to the faith. I have been blessed to find a priest who practiced a Catholism of tolerance. He preached that no one was perfect, that we all were loved, and that GOD was not going to damn us to hell because of our actions, as long as we remained concious of our wrongdoings and showed some remorse for our actions.

My new priest confessor does not judge me when I married outside the faith. Does not judge me when my husband is Buddhist and does not judge me when I fail. He does not judge me because I question him why Catholics must hate friends of mine who are gay, or why the Church is against birth control in a time when there is so much disease. I question why woman are not respected, as they are the backbone of the church, and why the Church seems to abandon so many when those people need them most.

He sees me when I volunteer in our community, delivering home care to the elderly, volunteering my medical skills to those less fortunate, and for providing my time to the children.

So I have come back somewhat to the church for my own selfishness.

I do not condone what the Church is doing regarding the children. And I have a really hard time monetarily supporting a being that is so corrupt.
But my love of GOD is not going to diminish because of this crisis. As we all have to deal with our Crisis in Faith many times in our lives, The Church needs to find its path through this crisis.
They will do so without my direct support.

I admire the author's perseverance but I have to question her judgement. We are talking about the works of a God here, are we not? The God of thou shalt not kill, the God of 'suffer the little children to come unto me".

The sexual abuse of members of the church cannot be the work of the God of the Catholic church, it cannot be. It cannot be the work of the God of nay Christian denomination. However, the representatives of that God, its priests, have repeatedly and in large numbers been the purveyors of great evil against the most defenseless, the children of the laity. Now the church in all its panoply and power rushes not to the defense of the victims but to the defense of another priest, now the Pope, who may have been complicit in the evil by not acting as he should have but instead treating the priestly demons as brothers in the cloth. Why? Because this scandal if attached to the Pope destroys the very underpinning of the power of the coterie of old celibate men who rule the church for their own benefit. The Pope cannot be infallible if it is proven that he, like so many others, Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops, winked at the behavior, or moved priests around to cover up their sins.

What or who is more important to the church? The body of the faithful, the numbers of which are legion, or the priests, in perhaps their thousands or tens of thousands? The priests are supposed to teach, lead & guide the faithful to the supposed truth. If so many are active criminals and the rest spend most of their time either hiding the criminals or making excuses for their behavior, then what faith can be placed in their words, especially if the logic of their words is to defend only their continued power..

How does the laity excuse this behavior? Personally, I have no idea. The whole business of a church of a God, led by priests who are supposed to be the agents of that God's love, that can inflict this kind of damage on children who are taught to revere such men, strikes me as a scam of the powerful against the benighted.

Finally, I note that the final reaction of the hierarchy is to attack the victims and their agents, as purveying simple gossip. These are not the acts of men of God, these are the acts of men, simply men, defending their power and privilege. It is time for all this to change within the catholic church. Frankly, I cannot imagine who would want to attend such a church and even more, who would put their children in the hands of such men. Catholics need to get beyond the vestments, the glorious display and all the rest of it and decide if their religion as structured, is true to is own beliefs. Currently it is not true to those beliefs and each passing day, the corruption gets closer to Benedict, a man with a history that is not a matter of patty cake.

Ms. Freitas:

It wouldn't surprise me if you were targeted by this priest precisely because you were perceived to be a devout Catholic who could be counted on to keep quiet about it to avoid embarrassing your church. That you eventually alerted church authorities only after two years of stalking seems to prove he was correct in that assessment. That you remained a Catholic despite the more-than-shabby treatment you received and still kept quiet about it until now indicates that those church authorities traded on that very same calculus. That you would now advertise that you will defiantly remain a Catholic apparently regardless of what the church or its prelates do seems the equivalent of blithely skipping down a dark alley, in the wrong neighborhood, in the dead of night, loosely clutching a pocket book (with matching patent leather shoes), all the while singing the Ave Maria at the top of your lungs.

I am commenting as a father, not as a member of a church. We are talking about CHILDREN! The most innocent of all had that innocence violently ripped from them by the most vile and filthy of all creatures. As a father, if someone does this to my child I will give them the opportunity to discuss it with their maker as soon as I can get my hands on them, and if you aided and abetted this most heinous of all crimes I will afford you the same opportunity. There is no higher calling than protecting our children. None. Protecting the children should be the first thing the Vatican talks about, not protecting the church.

Oh, and another thing: I would be far more impressed with the Pope and other so-called Princes of the Church if they would eschew the gold-encrusted vestments, palatial residences, personal attendants, and other decadent trappings that apparently are de rigueur for those atop the hierarchy in favor of a life lived as Christ's life was lived, humbly and without many creature comforts. From the Easter Service broadcasts and other reported proceedings, what is evident is that these men are completely out of touch with the economic reality with which many of their followers must contend.

With regard to the abuse, I'm not sure that the Church has responded in ways that are all that different than those of other institutions (public school districts, anyone?) in covering up the incidents and even moving the abusers to similar positions elsewhere, thus enabling the continuation of the abuse. I read of a teacher in Illinois who abused multiple children in different districts, because agreements with the teachers' unions did not permit school districts to note the even the most grievous reason for dismissal in teacher records. School district policies have, of course, changed over the years, but so have those of the Vatican. But 'others are just as bad' is not a great excuse. And I'm no fan of the Church, which I think is way behind the times with respect to its treatment of women and its insistence upon celibacy (or at least the appearance of same) within the clerical ranks, and its prohibition of effective forms of birth control despite disastrous economic consequences for individual families in developed countries and society as a whole in developing countries. Those alone are enough for me to decide that I no longer wish to be identified as Roman Catholic...

FarnazMansouri - thanks for the links.

Donna - you are an intelligent woman - read those comments and links and please stop being smug and about your stubbornness. This is not a romantic movie where the leading lady (you) and your rough lover with almost charming human faults (the church) are running towards each other at the end, embracing, laughing and loving, and all is well. This is about a male organization, made for power and money, that has groomed you.

I belong to a parish where three priests abused boys. The families of the boys knew it was happening, but were afraid to take action. At that time, accusing a priest of anything was unthinkable -- let alone of something as vicious as child abuse. That priest-worshipping, priest-fearing culture is now nearly extinct. I cannot imagine a repetition of the tragical cycle of denial and abuse happening again -- at least in my parish, which I take to be typical. I keep asking myself whether this is wishful thinking -- that the church, largely through the painful education of the laity -- will not allow abuse to continue. I suspect not. The Church's painful and deserved chastisement has brought about change, which has made the Church a safer place -- at least for now.

Lots of good comments here. Make sure you see the one posted by Watcher1 on April 4, 2010 8:15 AM.

It takes a lot of self-centered, sacrilegious, sanctimonious, sycophantic people to support a criminal organization like the Catholic Church. The power-mongers in charge depend on this to maintain control. Demanding change will not bring change.

Dismantle the Church.

Donna,

I confess I found your previous essay more affecting than this. After reading the former, I tried hard to understand how someone might divorce themselves from the Vatican, its clericalism and "sins" so as to remain Catholic. I'm still wrestling with the issue, an interesting and important one, although I am emphatically not Catholic.

I suppose this divorce explains why the papal preacher's quote from his faux Jewish buddy's letter receives no mention from you. Also, part of being defiantly Catholic, I guess.

You were fortunate in that you were not raped by that priest. Other women have been raped by priests and have testified to it.

Also, you do not mention how old you were at the time, leaving one to wonder that you did not contact the police. If you were a child, I would like to know what your parents said and did.

You know, I find the defiant Catholocism of Sr. Maureen Turlish inspiring, and I wonder what you think of her. The rape of thousands of children invokes a different kind of defiance in some Catholics.

As for this atheistic Jew, defiance is all she has ever known.

Congratulations on your novel and move to Hofstra. Frankly, having taught at both BU and Hofstra (Visiting), I cannot imagine leaving the one for the other unless given an offer that could not be refused. Hopefully, that was the case with you.

At all events, good luck.

Pope Ratzinger appointed William Cardinal Levada Prefect of the CDF. Levada now holds the same position formerly held by the pope and is in charge of handling priest sex abuse worldwide.

After having bankrupted the Portland Archdiocese, Levada went on the San Francisco, where he obstructed justice, shielding what was then the largest priest pedophile ring in the United States, the Salesians.

Levada's cover-ups continued through 2004.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/01_02/2006_01_05_Russell_HouseOf.htm

Moreover, priest abuse should, in no way, be considered a problem of the past:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/03/18/brazil.sexual.abuse/index.html?hpt=T2

Nor do priests only molest Catholic children. They are nonsectarian perverts. One raped a nonCatholic disabled boy in a park bathroom a few weeks ago.

Abomination

Continued

Also, see:
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/more-on-cardinal-levada-help-of-anglicans/

http://www.mgr.org/LevadaTrajectory-Details.html

And google Jim Jenkins, and read about his reasons for resignation from the Levada "defense team."

Abomination

In centering attention on the current pope, the Vatican and WaPo are deflecting attention from the entire rotten edifice. It is that, the Vatican, which needs to be investigated, along with the unique power it holds in this country.

1. It will be necessary, in many states, to change the laws in order for them to prosecute pedophile priests. That is, the Vatican has been exempt from prosecution for crimes against humanity in the United States.

2. The Vatican's status as a "sovereign nation" was recently affirmed in an Appeals Court decision against the plaintiffs in a lawsuit against Vatican Bank.

Vatican Bank was established by Pope Pius XII as a repository for Nazi loot. 200 Utashe Franciscan priests owned and managed concentration camps in which they cut living people to ribbons with scissors and watched them bleed to death. They impaled them in a lake and watched them drown. They then took what they had and deposited it in Vatican Bank.

The plaintiffs, in the above mentioned case, were SErbian Orthodox, Jewish, and Roma victims, along with their heirs, of these nazi Franciscan priests.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/29/world/main6036103.shtml

3. At the same time that the RCC has been declared a "sovereign nation" and immune to prosecution for crimes against humanity, in this case pedophilia, it has been deemed an American institution, entitled to tax exempt status.

In other words, our tax dollars, have legally been used to shield pedophiles and prevent their prosecution.

4. Neither WaPo nor any major US media corporation has reported on the current Italian investigation of Vatican Bank for money-laundering 200,000,000 mafia dollars. That would be the Mafia that routinely assassinates elected Italian officials, who try to stem the flow of organized crime, over-running Italy.

According to the London Telegraph, Vatican Bank is the eighth most popular destination for money-laundering, ahead of Switzerland, the Bahamas, and Lichtenstein.

The investigation is ongoing. Yet, Wapo has not reported on it. (Why is that?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EnGD6DT2gM&feature=youtube_gdata

This illegal entity also interferes with US legislation at the Federal level in other ways. Note the current Stupak, Ben Nelson fiascos, said representatives having publicly announced that they would not sign on to any legislation, not supported by the "bishops."

They later gave their non-support, for which taxpayers shelled out more than one hundred million dollars (to the two).

continues

Finally, let us count.

Let us count. Recently, three localities decided to tax some Church properties. For three buildings, the taxes will come to more than three hundred dollars.

Let us count. Let us count up the wealth of Vatican Nation. Let us, the world, insist that its Vatican Bank assets be made public, all the billions in gifts its received from foreign nations, etc.

Let us assess the value of the church's real estate and profits it has made from sale of same, eg., the buildings and blocks it sold in the pricey Lincoln Center area of Manhattan.

Let us count. Let us count the cost in investigations, time taken in DAs' offices, lawsuits, etc., deals made in Congress, etc.

Let us count.

Health care, anyone?
--------------------
The issue, then, is not one pope, one type of crime. It is the entire enterprise that must be investigated from top to bottom, worldwide.

off topic? Isn't this about the Catholic Church and the fruits (abuses) that is inherent in an institution mired in ignorance and stupidity?

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him;

Before I knew Jesus ( "and will manifest myself to him" Jn14:21 ), I pray to all the disciples thinking that even one would hear me if God is not listening. Im not a Catholic but that is what a lost soul actually do. He doesn't feel any connection to God so he finds other ways to reach Him. There is no other religion that teaches its flock to call to these disciples, saints and Mary and plead to them that God may hear them. It's a clear sign that this Church is lost just as I was before.

Once a person receives Jesus ( "for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17), he doesn't feel the need to call other people but Christ only.

Catholicism is a form of ignorance and therefore a form of devil worship.

Spidermean - your commentary, as usual is tiring, and generally off-topic.

Believe whatever you want, but try to post something relevant to the subject at hand.

MikeB8 wrote "This is NOT about hating Catholicism (it may be for Spidermean,"

Ignorance is another form of devil worship. Catholicism, Darwinian Evolution, atheism and other false religions are unknowingly worshipping the god of ignorance which is the devil.

"Iam the Way , the TRUTH and the life"

Why should you guys take my word? Study the Bible yourselves and read it everyday and who knows it might snap you out of your ignorance.

Hard core defenders of the Catholic church don't seem to understand that when a priest lays hands on the genitals of an eleven year old boy, it's not like an investment advisor or a baseball coach did something wrong.

These are people who claim a right to coercively intervene in political life to prohibit things like gay marriage and abortion, based on their standing as moral arbitrers.

That's what makes their crimes so abhorrent, and it's what is so damaging to the Catholic church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvUepMa31o

To Areyousaying - I'm glad your story of warnings came through, once you made several posts of it. I hope people read it and remember it.

To the one who wrote: "And to those vitriolic comments about the Pope's arrogance etc--have you ever heard him speak? He's the most gentle and compassionate person."

It doesn't matter how soft-spoken he is, when what he says causes suffering and death for thousands or millions of people.

To the person who wrote that "as soon as you are told you will be miserable if you leave, you are in a cult" - well put.

Castellina wrote:

"Pope Benedict is a favorite target because of his traditional Catholic beliefs which are at odds with the liberal agenda."

No, he is a target because a) he is the Pontiff, the chief authority within the Church hierarchy, b) as a Cardinal he was aware of abuse and took action to suppress information rather than protect further victims.

This is NOT about hating Catholicism (it may be for Spidermean, but he's an outlier in every WaPo discussion), it is about why members of the Church do not demand that this issue be addressed. Feel free to remain faithful, but please don't condone the actions of the Church in permitting abuse to continue. Speak up, and take the Church back.

Thank you Donna, for your testimony. The incredible ignorance of some of the comments regarding the Catholic Church can only be explained by the fact that most probably these people have never set foot in a Catholic Church and are completely unaware of her history. One poster proclaims that the Church forbade the reading of the Bible--the Catholic Church COMPILED the first Bible and our liturgy is ALL rooted in the Bible. Another says that the underground of the Vatican used to be a chamber of torture or that we practice cannibalism--my oh my...
The human side of the Church, like any other organization, will never be perfect and certainly the sexual abuse of children has to be addressed and eradicated. Of course the liberal media is having a field day in "suggestions" in how the Church should change and in pushing their own agenda in the process. Pope Benedict is a favorite target because of his traditional Catholic beliefs which are at odds with the liberal agenda. And to those vitriolic comments about the Pope's arrogance etc--have you ever heard him speak? He's the most gentle and compassionate person. Yes, mistakes were made and are being recognized and addressed but to those who hate the Catholic Church and are getting their pitchforks ready, don't hold your breath. The Church will survive stronger than ever and continue being a light in the darkness and produce saints like Mother Teresa and innumerable others.

**"I am still here" is the refrain that's been thrumming through my mind for a long while now. I am still a Catholic: please notice me, don't disregard or silence or render me invisible. Don't pretend I do not matter. I am still here despite my struggles to remain a Catholic and despite my scars, too.**

You have no influence on church policy. As long as you continue to sit in the pew and drop your money in the basket, it's not that you don't matter, it that you are actively condoning and enabling abusers to flourish.

Justadadsc says:
"Way to go Donna. Your stance is both courageous and admirable. You are right not to be discouraged by the sins of the weak and frail humans that make up it's membership, clergy and leaders. The Church is SO MUCH MORE."

Nonsense. The church IS its membership, clergy, and leaders. Take them away and see what's left...some fancy buildings, statues, and gold chalices. Nothing more.

And Snl626 says:
"No you don't because they are a team and played well. Same here, don't blame the whole church for mistakes of a few."

Mistakes??? The pathetic old line long used by sleazy politicians? These were not mistakes - they didn't do it accidentally. "Oh, oops, my bad..."

These were heinous and obnoxious crimes perpetrated on innocents who trusted them precisely because of their positions - and there were far more than a "few." We're probably a long way from knowing the true extent.

But the coverup makes it the fault of the whole church, and not just of the individuals who committed the crimes. The apple is rotten all the way to the core.

I just do not get it. Of all of the pronouns that Donna Freitas could have put in front of the word "Catholic", she chose (among others, obviously) the word "defiantly"; as in "I remain defiantly ... Catholic." That sort of implies that there are people who are pressuring her to abandon Catholicism. I find such an implication on its face absurd. I suppose that I should add that I have only read her introduction; I have not read through -- and have no INTENTION of reading through -- the veritable avalanche of comments that have been submitted here. So perhaps she has written about this point of view and I am unaware of her doing so. There sure are a lot of comments.

Like others, I would like to know what "having been stalked by a Catholic priest" means, especially when the writer claims that it has left her with a life long "gaping wound". I don't intend to buy a book in order to find out.

I'm a bit leery that the "representative Catholic" on the Washington Post web site will be someone who claims to have been abused.

It's astonishing and horrifying that four per cent of all Catholic priests in the USA since 1950 have been accused of sexual abuse of minors, but that still leaves 96 per cent who have not, and who "inherit" undeserved shame from whatever percentage of that 4 per cent were not only accused but were also guilty.

In the course of a 55 year long life I have met three people so rich in insight and integrity that they have left a lifelong impression on me. Two of those were Catholic priests. (The other was an atheist, a member of the "Berlin Group" associated with the original Vienna Circle two or three decades before my time - probably the most honorable man I've had the pleasure of meeting and studying with).

I regard the Catholic church as flawed by an extreme of clericalism, yet rich in spiritual resources. To my mind the riches outweigh the flaws. I would sooner go to prison than give up books I own by Thomas Merton, Teresa of Avila, Thomas a Kempis, and Therese of Lisieux.

I will be interested to see how this blog develops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7VsoxT_FUY

SNL626 wrote"

"don't blame the whole church for mistakes of a few."

"the Americans are mostly the ones vociferous about this sex scandal"

This is shocking to me. You can remain a faithful Catholic without turning the Church into the victim in this instance.

First, the "mistakes" involve more than a few. Second, the "mistakes" are, once again, not the point - the systematic suppression of sexual abuse by men of God is central here. The Church elected to take actions to prevent sullying of its reputation rather than root out a true problem and protect innocent children. Further, as documented recently this goes all the way to then Cardinal Ratzinger. That nothing was done is unbelievable and deserves your vehement condemnation. Aren't these individuals denigrating the greatness of the Church? Or does the concept of papal infallibility prevent you from confronting what is going on?

Finally, as for Americans being vociferous - well someone should be. The idea of claiming that the Catholic Church is just like some poor celebrity whose sextape leaked is mind-boggling. These priests are self-proclaimed representatives of God who preyed upon innocent Children who looked to them for guidance, support, and spiritual comfort. This is a an abuse of power like no other. But just like Watergate it's not the crime that matters so much here - it's the cover-up.

bish·op·ric (bsh-prk)
n.
1. The office or rank of a bishop.
2. The diocese of a bishop.
[Middle English bishoprik, from Old English bisceoprce, the diocese of a bishop : bisceop, bishop; see bishop + rce, realm; see reg- in Indo-European roots.]

Pope Benedict, his cardinals, archbishops, and bishops have done what Martin Luther, Henry VIII and Cromwell could not do: they have destroyed the Great Church. It's as if the curtain has been drawn back and we see that there is only a feeble clerk who has not a single idea of how to lead. B16 has done nothing to lead the men and women and children in his flock. Instead he leads his curia, his clerics, his civil servants. He protects the perverts, aligns himself with the officious and blind church aristocracy -- princes of the church, indeed -- investigates the women, and sacrifices the children again and again and again and again. And those who elected him refuse to speak out, refuse to jeopardize their bishoprics -- now there is a fit piece of vocabulary, don't you think? -- and instead throw their parishioners under the bus. It is their silence -- their corrupt and immoral and self-serving silence that finally is most troubling. And all this from my beloved church. How dare they? Cowards, all of them.

Does one have to be blind and masochistic to remain a Catholic these days? Especially after being victimized by a priest? I would suspect so.

When such horrors and abuses - recently and historically - have been conducted and covered up by supposedly pious Catholic priests and high officials, why would a believer remain in the church? There are other congregations that operate within a Catholic's comfort zone (re theology and worship style) and with a higher level of decency and goodness. Ms. Freitas, and others like her, can take their energy, good works and contributions elsewhere to a church that doesn't have such a stain of iniquity. To stay put is to condone the church's conduct.

I grew up Southern Baptist and was involved in that denomination for half of my life. As I sorted out my being gay and recognized how harsh and narrow-minded the SBC is on many fronts, I chose to leave. I am happily involved in a liberal Presbyterian church that is involved in the community, run properly, and practicing a theology that is challenging yet sensible.

Be happy in being a stubborn Catholic, Donna. I'll persist happily in being a stubborn Baptist, our theological differences here being far, far from the point.

But be vocal. I'll confess that I have little understanding of and quite possibly even less sympathy at the willingness of some Catholics to subject themselves to an authoritarian, hierarchical gerontocracy. Perhaps that's just the anarchical Baptist in me (every Baptist congregation rules itself, and where there are five Baptists, there are nine opinions . . .). But it does seem to me that you Catholics have the power equations rather skewed when the church as an institution seems more devoted to self-preservation than in meeting the standards of Christ. Granted, we Baptists have many of our own problems (I regret that too many Baptists seem narrow-minded enough to look through a keyhole with both eyes . . .), so my observation isn't made with the slightest sense of moral superiority. It's just that I would hope your church leaders would be worthy of you (and millions and millions of other faithful Catholics). Perhaps they are, but right now that's hard to see.

snl626 wrote "the Americans are mostly the ones vociferous about this sex scandal."

That is probably because they are the ones instituted by God to rule the world with WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

If not for America , the abused around the world would continue to be abused and subjugated. Colonization would continue and a world power (probably Japan) would have been the one master of the all earthlings.

Religion is a very broad subject and any thoughts about religion like the one below is way off target. What specific religious doctrine that you find evil? There are many but you have to be very specific.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg
"A Designer Universe?"

www.physlink.com/Education/essay_weinberg.cfm

Ok, nobody seems to get it when I explain it a certain way...I'm going to let you look at it at another angle, for the last time.This is what's happening here, the Americans are mostly the ones vociferous about this sex scandal...that's it !! I hit the two key words or phrases - "American' and "Sex scandal." Americans are obsessed with sex scandals. Not a week goes by without news about sex scandal. Proof of this is the news of Tiger Woods sex scandal is dying out.., the Americans need to find something to replace that in the news cast. Gues what...they'll get tired of the "Pope" sex scandal and move on to another, by next week, I guarantee you that.

You should rename you column. You aren't a stubborn catholic, merely an ignorant and deluded person.

Who cares about any nitwit who's an adult and still believes in religion? Religion is the most vile invention Man ever created...

"The Catholic Church is not all hierarchy"?

What do you call the Catholic Church without hierarchy (including male supremacy)?

You call it Protestantism.

I think the end of the Vatican is near. When nukes start flying, expect that God had reserved one for it.

Filth cannot exist forever. Somehow, destruction will overtake it.

The Bible is very clear to those who understands it. Catholicsim is one of the devil's religion.

The blindness keep them from reforming.

"Same here, don't blame the whole church for mistakes of a few."

If only the church weeds out that few and not protect them from sexual abuses they make, nobody would be left of their clergy coz everyone among themselves has a finger to point to. They know exactly that they are not all innocent. Everyone has a filthy secret of their own.

Way to go Donna. Your stance is both courageous and admirable. You are right not to be discouraged by the sins of the weak and frail humans that make up it's membership, clergy and leaders. The Church is SO MUCH MORE. As one cradle Catholic to another, I'm proud of you.

Oh, and kenskat, from one "thinking person to another", what you don't understand about Catholicism is a lot.

"To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

Sadly, the Cahtolic church for centuries banned the exact words of God, the Bible, to hide their deviish doctrines.

Eph. 2:8-10

And never in the history of this church did it propagate that said verse. How else can they subjugate the crowd if they knew such a verse is real.

Millions of lives were sacrificed by this church to shut off the spread of this word of God.

Amazing how the blind have a tight cling to its blindness.

Ok folks, let's look at it another way. Think about this...the Final Four between Butler and Michigan State in the final seconds...one Michigan state player missed the last rebound with seconds left and they lost the game to Butler...would you blame the entire Michigan State for losing? No you don't because they are a team and played well. Same here, don't blame the whole church for mistakes of a few.

Guess what...I was told St Peter up above read the thread and took notes. All you folks who bashed the Catholic church have one last chance to repent, else....if not, oooooh, it's going to be very hot out there where you're going....
_____________________________________

Choose to live your life based on fear instead of love--that's your thing and your business. But I think your finger-wagging is exactly what some people have issue with.

lufrank1 wrote "Any really intelligent person would HAVE to realize that all worship of the "supernatural" is stupid and unreal because there is NO SUPERNATURAL.

There are thousands, if not millions, of flowers out there. Each one are pretty. Perfect in it's use of colors. And to think that none of these flowers have eyes or mirrors to critique their own work.

If it's not supernatural, I'll give you pot of soil and water and make me one colorful object and don't forget, blindfolded.

Sadly, lots of stupidity abound.

Anything truly "good" that any faith has to offer can be found outside the faith-proper. 'Community' is a bit harder to come by, but if you look a little bit, you will find that too, and it will have that much more meaning.

In college, I avoided joining a fraternity as a means of making friends. The stupid hazing and rituals turned me off. Lo and behold, I managed to make many friends that I have to this day. Better friends, I'd bet, than I would have found in a fraternity.

"Depart from we, I never knew you".

Whoever told the crowd that Peter has this power in heaven? Only the church of the devil.

Count me among the stubborn Catholics. No matter how disgusting the crimes of some of its members, the Catholic Church remains the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" that all Christians confess to in The Creed. That does not change, and we cannot turn away from her, whatever her human failings. As Peter said to the Lord, "To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." Remember, the head of the Catholic Church is not the Pope - it is Jesus Christ!

Many ignorant, unthinking people still have faith in VOODOO and Fortune Tellers, etc.
There's really no difference among ignoramuses in having faith in Witch Doctors and any other man made superstitions and Gods.
Any really intelligent person would HAVE to realize that all worship of the "supernatural" is stupid and unreal because there is NO SUPERNATURAL. The earth and universe is, if nothing else, NATURAL.

Guess what...I was told St Peter up above read the thread and took notes. All you folks who bashed the Catholic church have one last chance to repent, else....if not, oooooh, it's going to be very hot out there where you're going....

I can not believe that any thinking person would identify with such an evil organization. An organization that taught anti-semitism for hundreds of years and who stood silent through the Holocust. Now an organization that molests children! Are you that weak of a person where you need the crutch of any form of "highter" being to lean on. How about believing in yourself with a fictious god or messengers of god in the form of a former Nazi pope. My of my how weak you are!
Ken,a thinking citizen of the world.

I truly admire the writer's courage and toughness. She is a CATHOLIC! Good for her - she rightfully compares her horrifying experience of getting asked out a couple a times by a priest to that of thousands of young children getting molested by her catholic church. she has a point - an adult getting harrassed by another adult is EXACTLY the same as the catholic church (from priest to Pope) covering generations of molestation of innocent kids by thier priests. I am so glad she has the "guts" to keep her catholic faith - why shouldn't she?

awb21 wrote "I am Catholic because it is the church Jesus Christ Himself founded."

Surprise, surprise. You can just read the epistles of Peter or Paul to know that this church is far from the Church Jesus Christ founded. Salvation is by grace thru faith and is a gift and not thru any sacraments.

Good works follow as a result of that salvation and not as a means for salvation.

I can't give up chocolate. Many patients can't give up alcohol, and there is such a thing as addiction to a faith. The trouble starts when that faith tries to force itself on people of other faiths. My objection to the Catholic faith is not so much the sexually deviant priests and nuns, but the Catholic campaign against abortion.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. " (2Cor. 5:17)

I know a pastor who was banished completely from the church he lead when it was known that he is engaged in adultery. A true church of God cannot stand hypocrisy in their midst. Why can't the Catholic church do the same? It is because it is and has been the church of the devil. They thrive because of the fllth among themselves.

"DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU". Imagine the surprise among billions of people as they see their popes and priests among those told to depart.

Christianity is ultimately about redemption through revelation, which includes not only loving and forgiving one's enemy, but also oneself for all the error we give birth to, too.

I understand exactly what Donna Frietas is saying, and nowhere does it say in the Bible that rituals are unimportant. God wants His respect, just as we expect ours. God is frustrated with the hypocrites and the twisting of the Word, etc., but He never gives up on us, and we should not give up on each other. We can live to a higher standard. Donna Freitas is not defending all Catholicism, but she is baring witness to the Word, and the social context of forgiveness, courage and forthrightness. Afterall, mercy can only be given to the merciless; the righteous have no need of mercy, but teach by example.

Donna, you're young and Catholicism is sort of your bailiwick. So, spend your life and energy doing something about the secrecy, the sexism, the perversions, the egotism of this white man's church.

AWB21 Wrote:
"I will pray that you find the peace and goodwill to allow me to practice my religion"

I welcome you to practice and love your religion. In order to protect it, however, I also welcome you to speak out against the actions of the Church in systematically suppressing information about impropriety within its ranks. Sunshine is the best disinfectant

This situation is not as simple as claiming that as the Church is made of humans, they will sin. General criticism is not directed at the individual priests (although they certainly must be punished), but rather at the institutional structure that has protected them at the expense of further victims.

I am a Catholic convert. I am Catholic because it is the church Jesus Christ Himself founded. It is the only church to offer seven Sacraments to guide, comfort, forgive, unite and console human beings throughout their lifespans. It is the only Church that teaches every single thing Jesus Himself taught.
The Church is made up of men and women who are human and therefore fallible. All the sins committed in society are committed by those in the Church. That is the simple truth of humanity-in any organization there is sin. However, this does NOT equate to the teachings and doctrine of the Church being wrong or corrupt. It just means that human beings have sinned against Heaven and Earth (and each other).
I am sorry there is so much hatred being spewed in these comments I am reading.
I was the same way, hating, insulting, mocking the Church before I had a "road to Damascus" moment at age 23. Now I cannot imagine how I would be living my life, facing each day, each struggle, each joy, without my beloved faith to sustain me.
I will pray that you find the peace and goodwill to allow me to practice my religion, and I will have the peace and goodwill to allow you to disagree with me.

The fact that the Vatican had banned the reading of the Bible (the Word of God) for centuries is enough reason to conclude that truly, as what the Bible itself implies, that the Vatican is the Seat of Satan and Catholicism is one of the devil's religion.

How would Donna Freitas decide if she would know that there will be no pope in heaven? The position and title alone is so blasphemous. How would she feel during Judgment Day when before her, the popes were lined up at the left side ready to be burned or cast away? Would she still be a stubborn Catholic? Would she begin truly searching for the truth or continue to embrace ignorance?

"DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU!!". Imagine the astonishment if she finds out that the popes and priests were among those people told to depart. Upto when will the stubbornness cling on?

The hierarchy of the Catholic church deliberately and methodically hid criminals in their midst for decades. Every Catholic should insist on criminal sanctions for those who aided and abetted sexual abuse of minors. As with any crime the perpetrators have to be held responsible to protect society. The victims may chose to forgive but that does not protect future victims.

To all the lefty,atheist, chuch bashers"
YAWN....

That's fine as long as the medieval sexual ignorance and repression fostered in the Church are not allowed to infect our society, influence our laws, and tread on the rights of the rest of us there is no problem except within your own realm the disregard and hiding from the
repressive laws that have been forced everyone else aren't even followed. The attitude of punitive retribution on others in society who may also have sexual problems doesn't seem to get the same sort of compassionate concern.

LeafGreen wrote:
"To all of you on this thread who continue to attack the Church as a whole for the actions of a few: Does this mean we should also judge political parties (perhaps, the party belonged to by Spitzer and Massa, or perhaps the candidate for Lieutenant Governor of Illinois, who for years has been accused of holding a prostitute at knifepoint?) based on the actions of these few individuals? Your hypocrisy is showing."

You sadly seem to be blinded by your loyalty. If the Democratic party systematically suppressed information about the actions of these individuals, if it shuffled them around to prevent knowledge of corruption from becoming public, if its leaders knew of impropriety and ignored calls for justice all to save face, then yes we should hold the entire party accountable.

The issue you are missing is that the actions of the few are not what we are criticizing - we are outraged by the systematic top-down protection of the Church's image at the expense of protecting victims. That is inexcusable. I understand you may subscribe to papal infalliablity, but what about Bishops or Cardinals, after all, Ratzinger was not always the Pope.

Dwight, demons are made up to scare children. Why are they still scaring you?

A few things that are "backwards" about the Catholic Church:

1. Symbolic cannibalism

2. A Roman torture device is used as their primary symbol.

3. Celibate priests.

4. Gold crosses and fancy dresses, isn't this hypocritical when Jesus lived in poverty?

you have the right to believe as you wish, but that doesn't mean you're not a fool.

It is normal for the Catholic church to protect their priests who are exposed as abusers and try to silence their victims coz if they don't do this, nobody will be left in their ranks. These people have lots of filth in their closets. There are many Catholics out there close to the church who just choose to keep quiet just like Donna Frietas herself who kept quiet for years until now.

It is almost impossible that they will clean up their own ranks. And even if they are caught, it would be a tough battle to seek justice coz as I've said, nobody will be left of them if they don't defend each other's filth.

Remember, this is the devil's religion and as such their priests are wolves in sheep's clothing. I know a very close friend who continue to work in this church despite the knowledge that almost all the priests around him have filthy secrets.

The time has come to shut down the Catholic church under the U.S. RICO statutes for being a global criminal organization that tricks people using fantasy tales of talking snakes in order to further a worldwide pedophile ring. Take off the blinders and see it for what it is. And by the way, you don't need to be a Christian to oppose abortion any more than you need to be Jewish to enjoy a good bagel.

The catholic church is formed by human beings, with goodness, and evil feelings. If we were catholics because of men the church would have disappeared long time ago. We are catholics in spite of them.

As you I remain stubbornly catholic, however I'm no blind. Nobody should be a part of anytype of cover up; the true story should come out in the open, and the guilty parties punish.

pgr88:

My concern on this issue has no political origination, nor is it a result of being part of an "organized" attack.

There are plenty of people, such as myself, who are simply tired of the Catholic church getting a "pass" on illegal behavior simply because it is a religious institution.

Does that explain it clearly enough for you?

steelchaser "I'm a Bible-totin' Catholic and that works for me for many reasons. I'll be polite and stop here."

The only reason you can carry a Bible now is because millions of people have died who fought for that right. Had they not won, it would still be forbidden today. For centuries, the Vatican forbid the reading of bibles, forbid to translate it in different languages and only a very few could understand it (if ever one could even touch it) coz their bible was written on a dead language called Latin. The interpretation was even suspect coz it was done by only one person.

If Donna Freitas had written this piece centuries ago when the Vatican was still at its peak, you won't hear from this lady again. Under the St. Peter Cathedral in the Vatican is the biggest catacomb which was just unearthed recently. It was used as a torture chamber or secret prison cells for those who say something against the Church.

The Vatican is the Seat of Satan and Catholicism is one of the devil's religion. The reason you stay in this church is because you don't understand the Bible. Why else would they ban it for centuries.

Had these abused people complained at the wrong time (a few centuries or decades back), it would have been the end of their life story.

JayJonson,

It's not constructive to hit the victim (Catholics). The culprit here is Catholicism (the devil's doctrine). They are the "AIDS victim" not the AIDS itself.

Hit the doctrine not the person enslaved to the doctrine. There are many good Catholics out there. They are not bad people but just misled by a false doctrine.

The same can be said to other religions like Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Juddaism, liberal Protestantism, etc.

So Donna, how's those book sales going? Meanwhile, you "Stubborn" Catholic, ever look up the meaning of "Stubborn"? How's this "Stubborn": Unreasonably or perversely unyielding". Pretty much describes you and any other Catholics who keep doggedly defending the indefensible. I like the words Unreasonably and especially "perversely" since they describe both your stance and the stance of the Catholic church...By the way the Pope "Held Mass" today and most of us thought right away "did he grab his crotch?" hahahaha, the Pope what a joke, can't lead, can't follow, can't comprehend just how bad he and the church looks to the rest of us. Both you and Joey "the Rat" Ratzinger, welcome to the world of the internet where you can't hide when you're crippled inside. Lie, protect the guilty, condemn the victims, attack those that point out the truth, sounds like a political party that we know of, now out of power.

Ianni wrote: "But the hate and the condescending attitude that people have towards the Catholic Church is bewildering. Just because we are different and put our faith in traditions and rituals doesn't make us "dumb" or "backwards."

Why do you think it bewildering that people would fight back against a corrupt and hypocritical institution that spends millions of dollars denying equal rights to gay people, protecting pedophilia, promoting the spread of AIDS by prohibiting the distribution of condoms, imposes its ideas about abortion on those who disagree, and lies, lies, lies? Seems pretty straightforward to me that anyone who is bewildered by such reaction from the victims of Catholicism can't be too smart. So yes, a lot of people consider Catholics dumb and backward.

The problem that I find, there are so many comments I did not read them all so someone else may have mentioned it, is that the priest remains anonymous. What is it that makes Donna not disclose who he is or where he is? Is she not worried about him bringing the same trouble to other young women? Why not tell us who are all these important people who did nothing?

I would think by now that the problem with the Church has been the cover-up. No one wants to tell us about present predators so the horrid situation continues. When Donna names names then some of the other Catholics may find relief in her story.

Donna's safe.

She's a grown woman who can fight back - nowhere near the tastes of a priest.

oops out of order the first time - my apology

Part I

Parents, you have to protect your children by knowing the warning signs of abuse.

I was "prepared" as a vulnerable, lonely protestant boy at 14 innocently invited by my friend to his church's youth activities.

A child is much more likely to be abused by someone he or she knows.

Before the abuse takes place, the adult goes to great lengths to cement his or her relationship with the child to insure compliance.

Almost every predator looks for a child who is vulnerable in some way. I

Be aware of any adult who does not have children but who spends a lot of time around places like your child’s church, school and playground. Don’t be shy about asking questions of anyone who seems to be watching your child too closely.

The will next gather as much information as possible about the intended victim. Often this is done through casual conversation with the victim and/or the victim’s parents. In my case, the priest knew my father forbade me from going to Church youth activities with my friend so he never met my parents. Be on guard if an adult starts asking you or your child questions that are overly intrusive and personal. Teach your child that he or she does not need to provide personal information just because an adult asks for it.

Once the predator knows a little about his victim, he steps into that child’s life to fill a need. My need was loneliness and the love an adult who didn't judge me for being a non-Mormon "gentile" there who didn't beat me with a belt like my father did for the slightest offense. Thus a poor child might receive expensive gifts (those genuine Keds were a real treasure compared to my cheap K-mart shoes and I had to lie that I bought them with lawn mowing money I earned ). A lonely child might receive extra time and attention

Part II

Know the adults who play a dominant role in your child’s life. Be aware if your child suddenly starts talking about one adult more than any other.

Next the abuser begins working to lower the child’s inhibitions about intimate matters. My "friend" made jokes and comments about my body and sexual development. He may show the child inappropriate movies or pictures, (in my case adult magazines ) or manufacture situations where he and the child will be undressed. (In my case, an invitation to go swimming and change and shower in the locker room beforehand ).

At this stage, children sometimes become a little uncomfortable around the abuser. Watch for any changes in attitude towards an adult that has been important in your child’s life. Watch, too, for inappropriate comments or interests from this adult or from your child.

Part III

Finally, the predator begins overt intimate abuse of the child. When the abuse occurs, many children show marked changes in their personalities and behaviors. In my case, I became more sullen, depressed and withdrawn and I lashed out in anger which was very uncharacteristic of my then timid personality. My parents wrote all this off as "going through a stage" Often they will look for an excuse to avoid the abuser.

When it comes to protecting your child from abuse, inform yourself about the stages of "preparing" and trust your knowledge and intuition. If you have any concerns about the adults in your child’s life, investigate further and, if necessary, put a stop to any questionable relationships. Anyone who truly cares about children will understand your desire to protect your child from harm and respect your decision.

http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_pedophiles_groom_victims

Part III

Finally, the predator begins overt intimate abuse of the child. When the abuse occurs, many children show marked changes in their personalities and behaviors. In my case, I became more sullen, depressed and withdrawn and I lashed out in anger which was very uncharacteristic of my then timid personality. My parents wrote all this off as "going through a stage" Often they will look for an excuse to avoid the abuser.

When it comes to protecting your child from abuse, inform yourself about the stages of "preparing" and trust your knowledge and intuition. If you have any concerns about the adults in your child’s life, investigate further and, if necessary, put a stop to any questionable relationships. Anyone who truly cares about children will understand your desire to protect your child from harm and respect your decision.

http://sexual-abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_pedophiles_groom_victims

MIKEB8~

Superb points.

Loving faith, doctrine and one's own comfortable way of life with family, friends, and professional life as scholar- proves to be more compelling for her than the pain of, metaphorically speaking, overturning the tables of the moneychangers in the temple.

The author's stubbornness mirrors that of the hierarchy of the Catholic church- they've done their job well.

I had to endure this during the American wave of scandals and now again. Catholics priests are not ALL child molesters, they are not all evil. Yes, there are bad men in the clergy, my mother was abused. Yes, it was covered up and bad men were allowed to continue to be bad men. Yes this makes me very upset and sad. But the hate and the condescending attitude that people have towards the Catholic Church is bewildering. Just because we are different and put our faith in traditions and rituals doesn't make us "dumb" or "backwards." We are not behind the times just because we find comfort and solace in a church that is ensconced with centuries old traditions. Please think about that before you go and call this woman names or suggest she find "real" salvation elsewhere. I was born into a Catholic family but I wasn't RAISED Catholic; I CHOOSE to be Catholic and I have found inner peace with that choice.

Part II

Next the abuser begins working to lower the child’s inhibitions about intimate matters. My "friend" made jokes and comments about my body and sexual development. He may show the child inappropriate movies or pictures, (in my case adult magazines ) or manufacture situations where he and the child will be undressed. (In my case, an invitation to go swimming and change and shower in the locker room beforehand ).

At this stage, children sometimes become a little uncomfortable around the abuser. Watch for any changes in attitude towards an adult that has been important in your child’s life. Watch, too, for inappropriate comments or interests from this adult or from your child.

Since Catholics are more concerned with self-promoting their books, demonizing victims and covering Benedict's rear end, I will once again try to post here, in three parts, my story and tips for parents to recognize the signs of abuse of present and future victims.

Parents, you have to protect your children by knowing the warning signs of abuse.

I was "prepared" as a vulnerable, lonely protestant boy at 14 innocently invited by my friend to his church's youth activities.

A child is much more likely to be abused by someone he or she knows.

Before the abuse takes place, the adult goes to great lengths to cement his or her relationship with the child to insure compliance.

Almost every predator looks for a child who is vulnerable in some way. I

Be aware of any adult who does not have children but who spends a lot of time around places like your child’s church, school and playground. Don’t be shy about asking questions of anyone who seems to be watching your child too closely.

The will next gather as much information as possible about the intended victim. Often this is done through casual conversation with the victim and/or the victim’s parents. In my case, the priest knew my father forbade me from going to Church youth activities with my friend so he never met my parents. Be on guard if an adult starts asking you or your child questions that are overly intrusive and personal. Teach your child that he or she does not need to provide personal information just because an adult asks for it.

Once the predator knows a little about his victim, he steps into that child’s life to fill a need. My need was loneliness and the love an adult who didn't judge me for being a non-Mormon "gentile" there who didn't beat me with a belt like my father did for the slightest offense. Thus a poor child might receive expensive gifts (those genuine Keds were a real treasure compared to my cheap K-mart shoes and I had to lie that I bought them with lawn mowing money I earned ). A lonely child might receive extra time and attention, and a child who feels unloved might receive unconditional affection.

Know the adults who play a dominant role in your child’s life. Be aware if your child suddenly starts talking about one adult more than any other.

YOU ARE A FANATIC NO DIFFERENT THAN THE TALIBANS.

Why are monotheistic traditions (Christianity and Islam) unable to live in peace in pluralist societies?

It costs 145 billion dollars to operate global Christianity, records a book on evangelization. The Church commands 4,000,000 full time Christian workers, it runs 13,000 major libraries, it publishes 22,000 periodicals, it operates 1,800 Christian Radio and TV stations. It runs 1,500 universities and 930 research centers. It has 250,000 foreign missionaries and over 400 institutions to train them. These are 1989 numbers. No wonder Church needs Nazi gold looted from Jews of Europe and drug money to support this gigantic multinational operation.

Mahatma Gandhi wrote: "Only the other day a missionary descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among the famine stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their temple, and demolished it. This is outrageous." (quoted in Harijan: November 5, 1937).

Sexual abuse and corruption in India's Catholic Churches
http://myexperimentsagainstprejudice.blogspot.com/2009/02/church-sex-and-scandals.html

It's always a good time to leave a cult. Any time somebody tells you that if you leave an organization you will suffer terribly, you're in a cult.

You can read the Bible and worship God and Jesus all you want without any help from the Catholic church. Really. You can just walk away and your body and your soul will be just fine.

And I'd ask you to think of your children. You got away without being raped. Do you really want to take your kids off to a Catholic church and have them run the same risks? Why in the world would somebody willingly place their child in the care of an organization that tolerates and protects pedophiles?

Walk away. You'll be fine.

Many will do the same but when their child is molested or they are attacked one would think differently. The Vatican nor the Pope is God. You don't need a man born of sin to tell you what God says you can read it for yourself without paying for the Vatican life style. Most choose not to remember the Vatican started with being mor wealthy then any country in the World. Money was given by those who were told they had to support the Vatican and the Pope. Remember Jesus who never said to pay the church but everything belong to God, not once did he say the word Vatican or Pope. But all will get the answers when they die and have to read their book of life, even the Pope will be judged by God for his sins. What we see was suppose to happen as the lies and greed always catch up with you.

That's a pretty horrendous story. It's because of people like you that the Catholic Church will go on, although I'm not sure that is a good thing. Anyway, good luck to you.

I'm a catholic too - I think most people seem to equate the church of Rome with the Catholic faith. Let's start something...Let's stop calling the church of Rome Catholic; they're not. They lost their Catholicism long ago. You can find the Catholic faith in many other churches. Wouldn't it be nice if the MSM would venture the word catholic to other churches?

Congratulations, you gotten past the wolves.
This is and was a severe challenge to spiritual maturity. The evil you faced will be charged to those who committed it. Find good counsel and those you can trust. Stand Tall! Remember Padre Pio, he was severely persecuted by the Church as well.

Thanks, Dwight, but save you prayers for yourself and your Church. You need them more than I do.

The Catholic Church is part of the rich tapestry of Mexican culture and daily life. The church started the first hospital in North America in 1533 and the first university in 1538. Jamestown wasn't even settled by the English until 1607.

This year Mexico is celebrating its bicentennial - like we did in 1976. It was Catholic priests who led the revolution against Spain in 1810.

The Catholic Church is an integral part of daily life of most Mexicans, Filipinos and Latin Americans. Thus, it is also a growing influence in the life and culture of the fastest growing minorities in the USA - despite the recent scandal.

Then he commands the demon as follows:

I command you, unclean spirit, whoever you are, along with all your minions now attacking God's Chutch, by the mysteries of the incarnation, passion, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ, by the descent of the Holy Spirit, by the coming of our Lord for judgment, that you tell me by some sign your name, and the day and hour of your departure. I command you, moreover, to obey me to the letter, I who am a minister of God despite my unworthiness; nor shall you be emboldened to harm in any way this creature of God, or the bystanders, or any of their possessions.

The Believer pastes this text along with:

They shall lay their hands upon the sick and all will be well with them. May Jesus, Son of Mary, Lord and Savior of the world, through the merits and intercession of His holy apostles Peter and Paul and all His saints, show you favor and mercy.

All: Amen.

May those who attack the Church of My Lord Jesus, The Christ, the son of the living GOD, be exorcised of their demons...

Where we pitch our tent in the field of religion is a very personal thing, and there is much that still is appealing about the Roman Catholic Church. I still remember fondly my own process of conversion, which landed me in it and a wonderful religious order, and also brought me within a couple of months of ordination.

But then I suddenly fell in love and left, later to become an Episcopal priest. I've always felt fortunate this happened when it did (the 1980s), for it would have been much harder to have left -- though I surely would have -- in the early 2000s, when details became public about the deliberate choices made by bishop after bishop to protect the church rather than its children.

My problem with the pedophilia crisis has never been primarily with the priests who abuse, but with the bishops who facilitated serial abuse. Great church in many ways, and certainly full of wonderful people, but the Roman inability to hold its leaders accountable would have made it impossible for me to continue in the RCC. There is, in my view, a dreadful sickness in its soul.

Other denominations also can be unhealthy -- certainly this is true of my own Episcopal Church and the worldwide Anglican Communion. During 30 years in the "holy business," I've known many, many priests and bishops in both the Roman and Episcopal churches -- and even more laity.

Though I in no way idealize my Episcopal denomination -- indeed, I often feel quite critical of it -- its ordained leadership seems to me far more grounded and healthier than what I encountered in the RCC (though I knew and still know many fabulous RC priests).

I would say to Donna Freitas: Be where you feel you belong. But there are alternatives that might well help you know the new life of resurrection more truly and fully than the RCC is presently able to do.

Two things:
1) "I was never attacked". Had she been attacked and molested or raped, she might feel very differntly. She should work to sympahtize for those who were.

2) You can have almost all the good parts of Catholicism and democracy within the church. The closed system of rule by the Bishops and Cardinals isn't want makes Catholicism good aspects what they are. Their self-protection and cover-up on priest's crimes and inappropriate behavior coupled with their extreme focus on abortion is a distortion of reasonable morality. It is palpably hypocritical. Catholics should push for a truly democratic Catholic church.

Coloradodog,
It's not likely that she's screening. Probably your post was too long. Try breaking it into parts.

Celibacy is, IMO, a huge part of the problem - not because it turns otherwise normal men into sexual deviants, but because it attracts those deviants in the first place.

When a devoutly (indoctrinated) Catholic young man realizes that he is attracted to children, or to other men (I don't consider the latter deviancy, but the church does), what is he to do? Follow his desires and leave the church, thus (he thinks) consigning himself to hell for all eternity, or should he just give up sex forever and join the clergy?

It seems like a good way out of his problem, but he soon finds that nature's most powerful urge isn't so easily subjugated.

Were the church to be more open to recognizing that not all brains are alike, and to get out of the business of sex, it would be better off.

Still, I have to wonder why any Catholic can continue to believe in the church in the face of all this. Why do you need someone to interpret the bible for you - especially in light of the knowledge now forced on you that they are no better than you - no more "holy" nor "chosen" by God?

How telling Donna won't let me post my personal experience with this ecclesiastical terrorism and warning sings for parents.

"Not going anywhere" pretty well describes anyone who submits themselves to the utterly corrupt authority of the RCC.

Great, a college professor of religion and book author who makes her living by Being A Catholic.

She might as well be an employee of the Church of Rome with that much of a vested interest.

I am still a Catholic but I no longer follow nor accept Razinger. I suspect you think I am not really a Catholic since I do not believe that the Pope is St. Peter reincarnated, not God sitting on the throne, but I am.

I figure if Pope can be arrogant, pugnacious and refuse accountability, then I can be a better Catholic by helping to save the church and it's traditions by loudly demanding his removal and work for reformation.

BTW, I think everyone of them should also be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law.

Oh. I get it. This is just a plug for your book. Why didn't you say so up front? Well, anyway, good luck with that, and if you were put off by the attentions of a single priest, get ready for all the wackos who aren't bound by any sense of scrupulosity once your book hits the stands. Might want to unlist your phone and get a PO box right now, if you haven't already...

Perhaps you stay with the church because you are gullible and you've been brainwashed since you were a small child?

I know the Church does a lot of good. It does lose its high ground when it protects and covers up years of abuse. When it decides to withhold information on crimes committed by its priests. When it enables priests to be moved around and continue to commit heinous acts. How then can it tell us how to behave?

I guess, Ms. Freitas, you have no male child who's been buggered by a priest. Good!

But don't pretend to be morally superior to those parents who are not so lucky.

Pedophilia/child rape is a CRIME. A CRIME. A CRIME. Not complicated, not morally ambiguous in the least. A CRIME!.

If you think this issue is morally ambiguous, that says a whole lot of (nasty stuff) about you!

The law is quite clear.

Buggering/raping children is ILLEGAL.

Any institution (Catholic Church, public schools) who are aware of child rape/pedophilia should inform the police. Period. End of it.

The "pope" buried such information? Some "servant of God" indeed. How disgusting.

//

asoders2 wrote "But even though religion and state are now officially separated, atheists still have to fight every step of the way to maintain freedom of life and speech."

Where have you been? Atheism is worse than Catholicism. When atheists gets to rule a country, there is no such thing as freedom.

Posted by: spidermean2 | April 4, 2010 10:51 AM//

Oh, I am all for religious freedom, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Anyone is free to build churches and temples and worship and pray - but freedom ends where that of others begin.

That's the stance of most atheists. You be a Christian or Muslim if you like - but don't try to make your religion the law of the land. We want separation of State and Church. That's all.

You cannot rationalize criminal behavior. If you tithe the Catholic Church, you are aiding and abetting a criminal enterprise. The Catholic Church hides and protects men who are guilty of child rape and men who are guilty of helping protect men who are guilty of raping children.

The Catholic church and Catholics are not victims--though by comparing themselves to Jews during WWII, they would have you believe something terrible is happening to them. The children who were raped (are being raped?) are the only victims. The Catholic Church is only beginning to get what it deserves. And the Pope will get what he deserves if America has the guts to make sure he's arrested the next time he steps on American soil. Folks in Wisconsin would probably like some justice served.

Religion at best is silly. At worst, it is violent and predatory, and the Catholic church has had quite a hand in showing the world just how awful a religious organization can be.

I loved your post and appreciate your courage. Unfortunately, many of the comments were very sad and disturbing, but not surprising. Not only do we have to suffer from some of our leaders but those who continue to attack our faith. All religions have problems. They have leaders who have done horrible things as a result of their power. They have members who judge, attack, and sometimes even kill in the "name of God" or to "protect the innocent." No one is infallible. No one. And no one will take my faith from me. No one.

Ms. Freitas,

I guess you've missed these parts in your studies:

1. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

2. You'll be known for your works and not so much your words.

3. Your love of God is a quiet acknowledgement, not "look at me," (I'm selling a book).

test groom abuse priest predator celebate

I do not understand how any woman can be a member of a church that treats women like second-class citizens. Women cannot be pope, cardinal, bishop or even a priest. How is that defensible? It is a relic from a long-ago time when only men were allowed to rule. We have now realized that that concept is ridiculous. Women may now rule countries, run companies and head universities. But they have no authority in the Catholic church. It is one of the reasons why the church is so deaf to the abuse complaints, and why it is utterly irrelevant to modern times.

People like Miss Freitas are the reason that the mens club that is the catholic church is so incredibly arrogant. Who is she kidding that the church isn't it's hierarchy? What power do the lay persons and nuns have? No power at all.

The priestly caste runs everything with an arrogance and smugness made possible by the fools like Miss Freitas who take whatever they dish out while always continuing to support them, no matter how low or outrageous their actions. Child raping and molesting enabled and covered up by their fellow priests? Even that nauseating crime is excused.

Keep deluding yourself Miss Freitas, they're counting on you.

leafgreen,

While the Catholic church tries to hide the abuses coz no priest would be left if they will expose them all (almost everyone is guilty of wrongdoing for sure), the Democratic or Republican Party are not engaged in hiding the abuses of their pals.

Again, I thank you for standing by our Church. Whenever I hear the vitriol being directed at us I just remind myself of the inherent hypocrisy of people who would voice such allegations at the entire church over the actions of a few, especially so soon after the scandals of their ELECTED representatives Rep. Massa and and Lt. Governor nominee Scott Lee Cohen. Since they actively VOTED for these individuals, that makes them doubly guilty of supporting sexual abuse and domestic violence. I also remind myself of Bible verses saying to "rejoice" when the world hates you for holding fast to your beliefs. If the world hates us, we must not belong to it and are probably on the right track. Leafgreen signing off.

For many years, I stayed not only as a parishioner, but as a lay leader in the Roman Rite church. There came a point, though, where I had to recognize that my continued presence, support and service to an essentially dysfunctional institution was giving validation to the oppression it perpetuated. I was blessed to have found an alternative in the many independent rite Catholic communities that maintain apostolic succession in the priesthood and celebrate a Catholic liturgy while being inclusive and welcoming to married clergy, divorced and remarried persons, GLBT people and in which women and men are welcome to all ordained ministries. www.reformedcatholicchurch.org

"All these exposed abuses are just the tip of the iceburg."

___________________________

And I'm sure the actions of Vice Governor candidate Scott Lee Cohen (domestic abuse), Rep. Massa (sexual abuse of colleagues) and former Gov. Spitzer (adultery with prostitutes) were only the tip of the iceberg for the Democratic party, and that the ACORN scandal last year was only the tip of the iceberg for that organization.

My point?

Power corrupts, no matter who has it. If you attack one entire organization for the crimes of a few of its leaders you have to apply the same standard for EVERY organization or lose all pretense of credibility.

No Stockholm syndrome here. I was educated exclusively by nuns and priests for 12 years. I spent one year in a secular college and ten more at Notre Dame. And I have many personal examples of grievous sins committed by those nuns and priests and bishops and Popes, not to mention institutional sins I have witnessed and sometimes publicly denounced. Tons of gossip to tell.

But I had a strong, tough, five-foot tall Irish mother.

I witnessed her bury both of her dead husbands, as well as publicly denounce parts of Catholic ideology, professional religious, pastors, politicians, even policemen.

I suppose that helps me to assess the sexual and bureaucratic sins of today's Church. One should never allow his/ her identity to be swallowed up by an organization, be it the Democratic party, the Catholic church, the corporation, nor the country.

The church that will celebrate my funeral mass will be the Church of Matthew's "Sermon on the Mount", the one that prompted the heroic lives of Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton, Mother Teresa, Franz Jägerstätter, Joseph Bernardin, Philip and Daniel Berrigan, Thomas Gumbleton, Joan Chittister--corrupt human beings, each with sins, faults and failings.

I am very angry at the members of the church's hierarchy not only for their hypocrisy, their sexual sins and cover-ups, but also for their failure to institutionally denounce certain actions and inactions of governments and popes and presidents. But I'm also mad at the Democratic party and America and the Florida penal system, and my Catholic parish.

Nevertheless, when I'm gone from this world, I hope to be counted among those who are remembered at masses, especially on All Souls and even All Saints Day. I don't believe in hagiography, even Henry David Thoreau's.

BTW: I was mad at C. Ratzinger before he became Benedict XVI.

What chance does a child have in this church if officials won't even listen to the grown women? Didn't Jesus say something in Mark, Chapter 9, about you being better off dead than causing little children to sin? How many priests have destroyed a child's faith in God altogether through their actions? How many church officials have done the same by requiring that child's silence or simply not believing them at all?

I'm not Catholic, but I believe that because Christ died for all of us, that we don't need a priest to forgive us or hear our confessions - that we can confess directly to God. That's the problem I have with this church. So many people think they are damned or have no where to turn, because some man in a collar is their only bridge from their heart to God's. What do you do if this man has abused or stalked you? What and awful spot to be in!

I wish Ms. Freitas well. I will never understand her reasons for staying. How she could continue to seek comfort with those who are unable and unwilling to give it is beyond me. If she feels she is being faithful to God by staying with them, then I think her faith and good will are being unfortunately wasted on the Church.

I was disturbed by this post. Most Catholics seem to not understand that just as question the church and question the love of Christ as the same thing.

The church seems to use the techniques that Bush administration used.If you question you are not a patriot.

The basis of Catholic teaching is shame so the abused are caught in a circle of conflict. To feel shame is good so reporting the shamful act is bad. Unlike guilt where the act can be reversed, shame means uneneding self loathing.

It is the thing that allows abusers to nullify action..

amelia45 wrote "There is much good in Catholicism and the Catholic Church. Good worth standing up for and worth holding on to. "

The devil surely knows that for an institution to exist for a long period of time, it must have a good face or something like a hard shell that can contain or hold together the rotten substance inside it. Break the shell and you will see the filth.

All these exposed abuses are just the tip of the iceburg.

"recipients don’t have to kiss anyone’s ring to get it, or kneel on front of a guy in a funny hat and pretend to eat a body part."
____________________

Since you've obviously never volunteered at Catholic womens' shelters and soup kitchens I will forgive this remark: The people we feed, clothe, and provide shelter to are NEVER required to participate in our religion to receive help. We help them because we are Catholics, and it is our duty as Catholics to provide help to those who need it. Even after your despicable comments on religion I would no more turn you away from my door if you needed help than I would any other man or woman on this earth. If you expect to have any credibility I suggest you apologize to all religious people who help not for gain, but purely for the fact that they see Jesus in those who are suffering.

Lots of non-religious groups raise money for philanthropic projects. And recipients don’t have to kiss anyone’s ring to get it, or kneel on front of a guy in a funny hat and pretend to eat a body part. (The symbolism of that act regarding domination and pedophilia appears to be entirely lost on the church.) Or where women have to wear clothing similar to Muslim women in yet another environment hugely dominated by men. Seems childish and silly, hardly profound, but people can talk themselves into anything if they ‘get something’ out of it.
A church lady once told me, “I’m secure in my faith.”
She appeared to miss the entire point, if she was secure, she wouldn’t need faith.

Come over to the Church of the Apathetic Agnostic, sign out front says:
“We don’t know, and we don’t care.”

Daphne Sylk

But enough on sex....back to the original discussion of hypocrisy on these posts. People have only to remember that if they blame the entire church for a few individuals then they must also blame the entire Democratic and Republican parties for the actions of Scott Lee Cohen (D. domestic abuse), Rep. Massa (D. sexual abuse of colleagues) former Gov. Spitzer (D. Prostitutes), and Larry Craig (R. The old "tap tap" on the bathroom door guy of 2006).

My comment -- the first of the blog -- critical of the author and the church,did not contain any profanity but was removed. I suspect many of the critical comments have been removed, and still the remaining ones are overwhelmingly negative.

Supporters of the Catholic Church are facilitating child abuse, plain and simple, because of their own selfishness.

You might as well be writing that you are stubbornly Nazi, despite the Holocaust.

In 50 years the Catholic Church will be 1/10th the size it is now, and hopefully on its knees financially.

There is much good in Catholicism and the Catholic Church. Good worth standing up for and worth holding on to.

Thank you, Ms. Freitas.

WILLIAMBLAKE, what on earth did you think Augustine was saying in his "Confessions?"
It wasn't exactly the Kama Sutra....

The fact that the Vatican had banned the reading of the Bible (the Word of God) for centuries is enough reason to conclude that truly, as what the Bible itself implies, that the Vatican is the Seat of Satan and Catholicism is one of the devil's religion.

Even statistics shows that Catholic countries are one of the most corrupt in the world. Officially, the church believes in the idea that man and monkeys are relatives. That is not what the word of God says and science can't prove it thru bone formations. It is quick to embrace the pseudo science of Darwin when in fact it remains just a theory or a speculation.

Another sign that a religion is false is if it believes in Darwin's theory. Souls don't evolve from a bacteria.

This church has duped billions of people.

"I see nothing wrong with wild sex."

_____________________

That's probably one thing everyone here can agree on, unless that wild sex involves abuse or not accepting responsibility for the consequences, such as STDs that are unaffected by condoms (yes, there are still STDs that condoms only block 20% of the time) and the like.

blasmaic,
I see nothing wrong with wild sex. Neither did St. Augustine, my favorite theologian. Just don't take any vows of celibacy or anything and your cool.

To write that you are a part of the "Catholic Church is to implicitly condone that type of reprehensible conduct."
______________________________

By that same token, If your are supportive of the Democratic Party you must support the actions of Scott Lee Cohen (domestic abuse), Rep. Massa (sexual abuse of colleagues) and former Gov. Spitzer (if you can't make the connection on this one then you're not worth helping).

It says at the top of the thread, "Report offensive comments below."

What if 90+% of the comments are offensive?

One hopes that the bulk of you don't die in the bitterness you live in now. What a horrible choice.

Thank you, Donna. Your words are welcome ones to me and any others who have kept our courage and continued to support our local Churches with attendance even in a time of scandal. To all of you on this thread who continue to attack the Church as a whole for the actions of a few: Does this mean we should also judge political parties (perhaps, the party belonged to by Spitzer and Massa, or perhaps the candidate for Lieutenant Governor of Illinois, who for years has been accused of holding a prostitute at knifepoint?) based on the actions of these few individuals? Your hypocrisy is showing.

Like others, I find it disingenuous that you are posting this just as your book is coming out. However, if you were indeed stalked by a priest then dismissed by the church authorities, keep in mind that the church is not above the law ( well, not completely) and I hope you have a restraining order against this man.

If it's ritual and the seasons you love check out the Episcopalians or the Orthodox churches which have beautiful liturgies and music, MARRIED priests ( even female, gay and lesbian priests in the case of the Episcopalians). They churches are very different from one another theologically, of course, so you'd want to study the matter. If it's the Apostolic succession you're worried about the Orthodox arguably have as strong a claim.

But really why torture yourself with being a Catholic? Take your talent, time and treasure elsewhere where it be put to better use than defending pedophiles and enabling the spread of AIDS. Personally, I'm an atheist student of religion as an interesting human cultural phenomenon, so it matters little to me, but I hate to see decent people being hurt over religion.

"So here it is: For over two years I was stalked by a Catholic priest. I recognize that I am not a "typical victim" in the sense that I am (was) a girl and, in my case, I was not sexually assaulted.

But as with other victims I know what it is like to have my faith in the priesthood terribly violated, and for that violation to nearly destroy me. My experience felt like it went on forever."

Being harassed as you were and being sexually violated are two different matters. Even though the Catholic Church ignored your complaints, being sexually violated and having this experience be officially covered up is still quite another matter.

"The Catholic Church is me"

I respect your faith. Not your church. If you are unable to segregate the two then I have to conclude that you have no problem with the Catholic Church's official policy of failing to prevent sexual abuse of its congregation. To write that you are a part of the Catholic Church is to implicitly condone that type of reprehensible conduct.

I have to think Christ would be disappointed.

Catholic Hospitals treat 80 million Americans each year. Catholic Charities raises $2 billion each year for homeless shelters, elderly care, etc... Catholic Schools educate millions of students (many poor) in cities all across America.

That is just a small sample of Catholics living their faith. Do not be ashamed to declare yourself Catholic.

The recent attacks on the Church or political and organized in nature.

...and stubbornly delusional..
Heads Up: There is no God.
Posted by: ethicsbob88

@ETHICSBOB88
It's always curious to me to find atheists hanging out on religion blogs - may you some day find the God you are seeking because He is certianly seeking you.
Posted by: architect182

..........................................
I dont hang out here, and I'm agnostic. I believe it's possible there is a God, or Gods. I'm fairly certain though that God, if it exists, is nothing like these religions concieve, or at least most of its followers.
The Catholic theology accepts evolution of the universe and life, and accept science as understanding Gods natural laws.
So the leadership is rational and educated.

spidermean2,

You suspect I am a priest? I never wanted to be a priest but I did offer my services to the Catholic diocese as the seminarian who all the wild girls could corrupt.

You know there are women who believe their sexuality can turn a man against his Godly calling. I have no such calling, but thought women with such wrongful intentions deserved a man whose only real interest was the wild sex.

Donna, will you still be there when the scandals of priestly abuses and coverups explode in Central and South America where fully one half of the world's Catholics live? I expect the depth and breadth of these crimes to be much worse there because the authority of the chuch is unquestioned.

Throughout the centuries, the masses of the desperately poor have sought respite and hope in the arms of the church. By turning a blind eye towards abuses of power and trust, I fear that the church may have asked for the innocence of their children in exchange.

asoders2 wrote "But even though religion and state are now officially separated, atheists still have to fight every step of the way to maintain freedom of life and speech."

Where have you been? Atheism is worse than Catholicism. When atheists gets to rule a country, there is no such thing as freedom.

I do not believe the issue has ever truly been the morality of the church. The issue is the hypocrisy. The basic fundamental principles of Christianity are at stake here. I have chosen not to be a hypocrite.

tbarksdl, good point comparing the embrace of the Catholic church with loyalty to Southern racial segregation.

Why atheists come to a religious blog? Because organized religion keep pushing for world domination, demanding their religious rules should be obeyed by everyone.

The Church can no longer burn you at the stake or have you otherwise punished because you think there is no God, but it took centuries of struggle to make them stop. (The Islamic countries have yet to win that fight.)

But even though religion and state are now officially separated, atheists still have to fight every step of the way to maintain freedom of life and speech.

I grew up Christian, but not Catholic in any fashion.
I confess the Catholic Church is a completely alien organisation to me. With
all its rituals and pomp, costumes, paraphernalia, services in a dead language, symbolic gestures, intricate mythology official and unofficial, variations from country and culture. I think its marvelous, a survival of the ancient Egyptians metamorphosed into first greco roman then medieval then modern times and culture.

Priests are human and flawed with good and bad in them. In my five years of Catholic boarding school, I met humane and caring priests and those that were devious, cunning, manipulating, controlling and lying. I still go to Church but take the religion with a grain of salt and do not subscribe to the "fire and brimstone" philosophy that has unfortunately permeated this country's politics, especially my Republican party.

blasmaic wrote "Reads like it's all in your head, dear."

I suspect that blasmaic is a priest.

This is more of a plug for her book than a discussion of the catholic church and pedophile priests. She mentions beimg "stalked" by a priest but provides no details. Sounds like a fish story to me.

I have no idea how anyone who is a parent can remain a catholic.

Most people who have been violated by the Catholic Church don't have a national venue in which to hawk their books.

Sorry but I find your story extremely UN-inspiring.

The Catholic Church is one of the most corrupt and destructive institutions that has ever existed. It talks in the same kinds of buzzwords you do. BUT NOTHING EVER CHANGES. It still hates and fears women. It still shields pedophiles.

As one who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools for 12 years, I know the rituals and trappings are very seductive. Cathedrals, rosaries, chanting, all draw me to this day. But they are all like projections on a screen, with nothing behind them. Empty, as thin as the wafers we are supposed to swallow without chewing.

What the Catholic Church has done is indefensible. And you know it.

@ETHICSBOB88

It's always curious to me to find atheists hanging out on religion blogs - may you some day find the God you are seeking because He is certianly seeking you.

How does a priest stalk a person?

I can't recall any examples of a priest stalking a person, except in The Godfather III. There an assassin dressed as a priest pointed a rifle at Michael Corleone, but he wasn't actually a priest.

Tell us more about your stalking, Donna. Are you certain you were stalked? Or were you conducting research for your novel? Just because you believed you were stalked does not mean you were actually stalked like a glamorous, beautiful, sexy television personality. Did you file a police report to warn the civil authorities about the priest's criminal conduct?

If you were not actually being stalked by a Roman Catholic Priest, then maybe that would explain why everyone was so unresponsive to your demands.

In the future, you might try talking to a man whose attentions you don't desire, instead of becoming "a master-avoider to this priest's never-ending, ever-more-creative advances and attentions."

Reads like it's all in your head, dear.

The root of the problem of the RCC is the RCC ADMINISTRATION, not the RCC RELEIGON. To silence TRUTH so the RCC image is not damaged is back up by FOOLS account the TRUTH will always come out. WHAT DID THEY KNOW? WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT? WHAT DID THEY DO WITH WHAT THEY KNEW?

...and stubbornly delusional..

Heads Up: There is no God.

I wish she had given some examples of the priest's ever more creative stalking.

I also wonder why if she felt the Church was unhelpful, she didn't just go to the police. When a man continued to pester me long after I had asked him to stop, I went to the police station and filed a report. When he got a phone call from an officer saying, "I understand Ms. So-and-So has asked you not to call her or come by her house. Doing so when you've been asked not to is trespassing and harassment. I'm Officer So-and-So telling you to stop," it stopped. Immediately.

I wonder if she wasn't sending mixed signals, sometimes encouraging him, as a way of doing research on a book. Normally I wouldn't be so cynical, but this article is equal parts Catholic defending, hierarchy bashing, and book commercial.

Hortens said,

"I think that what is at the core of their hate is only one thing: the Catholic church, despite centuries of persecution by thinkers like these folks,is still around 2000 years later and still growing and it frustrates them. No institution in humanity has survived anywhere near as long. "

First, I do not hate the Church. I do not agree with much of what it professes, but to each his own. However, I hate corrupt or predatory behavior by the powerful. In this instance (sexual abuse scandal), the Church is exercising its power to protect its own image rather than protecting victims or even simply apologizing and asking for forgiveness. That is disgusting to me, and I will continue to speak out against this behavior.

Second, just a history lesson: you might note that Judaism preceded the Catholic Church by oh, about 3500 years. Despite attempts at literal systematic extermination, the Jewish faith and institutions endure. I'd argue that suggests your commentary on the historical nature of the Catholic Church is misguided.

The problems within the priesthood of the Catholic Church should and should not be news. Every human being is a sinner and engages in sin, whether priest or layman. This doe not mean that we should condone commission of sin. The beauty of the Catholic church (and other Christian denominations) is that it acknowledges sin and offers the hope for remission of sin and reconciliation with God. On Easter we are beautifully reminded of that hope. By the way that hope is available both to believer and non-believer. One need only acknowledge and seek it.

This woman is a professor? She writes like a teen - a narcissistic and bratty one, frankly. I'm glad her stalker crisis didn't "destroy" her, but this extended bout with self-absorption and inability to view the wider context - others have been brutally harmed, have been destroyed, and other religious traditions exist to meet your needs without bolstering this crude and medieval Catholic one - suggests she hasn't the maturity to assess Catholicism beyond the lifestyle and tradition it offers her. We've heard this a thousand times and it still falls flat.

Sinéad O'Connor joins us for a conversation about religion, faith, the Vatican and more tonight on Paradigms at 8 PM EST on http://wbkm.org podcast available a few hours after broadcast at http://paradigms.bz

Donna, I attended Catholic schools my entire life. I know 100s, if not thousands, of folks who went to Catholic schools and are very involved in the church. Not one has ever told me that they were molested or advanced on by a clergy member.

No offense to you, but leave only it to the Washington Post to find an articulate defender of the faith who has been advanced on by a member of the clergy. That reflects well on us. Thank you Post; you never disappoint.

In any event, what you are about to see may surprise you. For a lot of complicated reasons, the American experience with Catholicism has not been an entirely positive one. The left hate us because we have not gone along with their mania for the sexual revolution. Much less so, the right hate us because they think we are controlled by a foreign power (which we really should be) or do not follow the bible which we alone wrote, follow and have maintained for 1600 years.

So get ready: you are going to see a lot of raw hatred in these posts. I have been reading these posts for the last couple of days on the sex abuse situation and they make you shudder they are so irrational and devoid of any sense of reason or proportionality. You may some day want to discover why this is so.
------------------------------------------
That's what I wrote last night. Since then, as you can see, they drained the swamps of every hater--left and right--and some of their thoughtful, nuanced postings are set forth below.
I think that what is at the core of their hate is only one thing: the Catholic church, despite centuries of persecution by thinkers like these folks,is still around 2000 years later and still growing and it frustrates them. No institution in humanity has survived anywhere near as long. If anything that only proves the truth of Jesus' words that "the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against her." Happy Easter!

If this is what works for you. Well, good for that.

I'm of the opinion the clergy needs to abandon celibacy, and give women full equity in the Church.

I also think it won't be simple to cough up a systems that avoids familial dynastic behavior, but I'd bet a lot of consideration is buried somewhere in the archives.

I have PTSD, and well I am not the sum of my many scars either. The past is immutable, and does not define who we are. Only today and the future can do that.

When confronted with the unavoidable need to choose between a Catholic faith that defies the teachings of its own Lord, or a Christian faith that embraces Christ's own teachings, some are too paralyzed to decide. Ms Freitas offers one glimpse at this paralysis. The Catholic Church, like St Peter, denies Christ in its actions and its words. Unlike the first Pope, they feel no shame in rejecting Jesus.

your continued affection for the church makes the betrayal of its leaders all the more terrible. everyone is still in denial, leaders and faithful. but the spell will break.

meanwhile, next time you're in a health food store, check out the Bach Flower Essence Star of Bethlehem. It's named for the flower, not the star. It is for scarring. It'll help. there are others that may help, too.

There were raised eyebrows and mutterings among the faithful in Jesus' time. What kind of people was He associating with?? Yet, his followers increased in numbers and when Judas betrayed him, they didn't fall away. His Church grew and when the abusers, torturers and pretenders used it for their purposes, Christ and His followers did not leave. So is the case today. People who see the hierarchy as the Church simply do not understand what the Church is. It is Christ's Body and will stand until it is called home.

Most, if not all, of the press that are busy condemning the Catholic Church for ignoring (or forgiving), the acts of pedophiles, which we agree was both wrong and self-serving, have themselves ignored 70 years of ethnic cleansing of Palestine which continues to this day. If Israelis like Ilian Pappe,Jews like Norman Finkelstein and John J. Marsheimer, and neutral observers like Arundhati Roy, can all see the danger to the USA of backing, with nuclear weapons, ethnic cleansing by Israel and the theft of "lebensraum" from each of its neighbors. If your sense of justice is not appealed to, your sense of the risk to your own security should guide you. Backing a tyrant is dangerous. Obama's plans to reduce the number of nuclear weapons is meaningless without the renunciation of their use, and the USA can not even assure Iran that no non-nuclear nation will be attacked with nuclear weapons by the USA or Israel. We prove the utility of them every day.

So let's worry about priests a bit less, and a press that will not get the story straight a bit more. If they press do not know the occupation of Palestine is a greater threat to our security, they are not worth much.

I am a catholic...
My Church is about My Lord Jesus Christ...
it's not about the pope, the priests or any of us, it's about Jesus, The Christ, The Son of the Living God...
Don't make it about man, because it is not...
And for those of you that think it is, I will pray for you...

Catholic until my second child was born. My career has been at DOJ. When I learned that the church was being reviewed by my agency for consipracy and obstruction by the USAO, I knew then that this outfit was no better than the mafia crime families, the Bloods, the Crips, and the NOI.

It is time to smarten up Ms. Freitas. You can pick and choose what you like, or love about the church even after contending with stalking priests(a felony, by the way). But the fact is that the church is not worthy of you based on their complicity in criminal behavior. And good does not outweigh the bad. Rayful Edmonds was very good to his mother and neighbors. The German Army (the little dears) in WWII didn't rape and pillage as did the Red Army. None-the-less, still wehrmacht was criminally complicit directly or indirectly in the death of 20 million or more.

So, wise up. You seem to be wrapping yourself in misplaced ethnicity that includes catholocism in the whole package. It doesn't need to be. Wise up.

I am not sure why Ms. Freitas's views on her religion matter anymore than mine, but "whatever". Having a belief system is probably important to societies, but what happens when the regulators of the belief system are time and again connected to or contributing to criminal activity. And even if you pretend that there is no criminality here, how can these folks even be trusted to represent the belief system. The leaders, all the way up to the pope are dirty. Switch the names with the names of local police personnel or elementary school teachers and tell me your views would be the same? Ms. Freitas, wake up and then grow up.

Faith means needing no proof.

How much proof do Catholics need before they demand that their Church change it's ways?

It is not about FAITH, Catholics, when it comes to the men who run your religious institution.

Sorry, you may think you are special in your defiance, but I suspect most people see you as a fool. The church is nothing and you are helping them with your stubborn point of view.

What an incredible free-thinker... sure you weren't born in the 1600's? You represent almost everything wrong with followers of religion in your column. The worst part? You likely think "God" is smiling on you for keeping the faith like a good little automaton (that's right, grab the mast even tighter - you're under siege again - when you folk stop thinking of this as a badge of courage is the day you take a step forward in progressive thought). Reality is, you're supporting a despicable cause and in the process are tainted forever right along with it. Enjoy the stain.

Thank you for your courage in telling your story - and still believing in the one Divine Church of Christ.

What a wonderful Easter day to arise from your past life and start anew.

The Church is Divine and will persist even with our weakened human nature. Even Jesus had his Judas.

May God continue to bless you.

Your saying you are "faithfully, defiantly, stubbornly Catholic says it all when it comes to Catholics and their man made religious instituion except I would replace "faithful" with "brainwashed."

If Catholics do not rise up, grow up and demand that their "man made, man-run reigious instituion change then it never will, it will remain as it is, a brainwashed, defiant, stubborn dead man made and run religious instituion.

I grew up in the Catholic Church but outgrew it's confines spirtiually, and intellectually and I have never looked back, traditions are nice but one can find traditions anywhere.

Spidermean2 is now SPIDERNEUTERED!

Given three simple algebra problems to solve,Spiderneutered proved he has no understanding of mathematics by his inability to solve any of the problems until I gave him the formulas to use. He claimed as unsolvable a problem which thread-member Arminius had no problem in solving. Then we discovered that Spiderneutered is not an engineer (what a surprise that was!) but a student! DanielInTheLionsDen then exposed Spiderneutered’s lack of even rudimentary knowledge of Euler; he further showed that Spiderneutered copied, and ALTERED, to suit his own purposes, a definition from Wikipidia. Thread-member Barferio exposed Spiderneutered's confusion of sexual reproduction with self-replication, and also repeatedly asked Spiderneutered questions about meiosis, which of course Spiderneutered could not answer because he knows even less about science than he does about math. Spiderneutered highlighted his ignorance of physics by confusing mass with energy – to him, such concepts as ‘acceleration’ and ‘speed of light squared’ are not worth consideration! Additionally, Spiderneutered further illustrated his incompetence in mathematics with the astonishingly stupid claim that "x=x+1" doesn't work in math! And of course there are the lingering questions about his relationship with his adolescent nephew...

The combined efforts of members of The Spirited Atheist blog have definitively discredited Spiderneutered as the lying, ignorant, and incompetent fraud we have long known him to be.

Donna, remaining a devout Catholic is not defiant or somehow courageous. Portraying yourself as both a victim and still a stubbornly devout adherent to this particular religion is perverse but understandable. Those in charge of your church, as with any human enterprise, will sometimes abuse their positions and exploit those who trust them; that those who abuse innocents do so behind the cloak of a so-called Godly ordination make their misdeeds both easier and much more reprehensible.

Your church is all about the hierarchy and the Vatican-based patriarchy. To look for that to somehow no longer be the focus for how your religion is defined is a mere pipe. Your continuing faith in such an organization requires you to stop thinking and just obey. Please, though, don't delude yourself into thinking you are being nobly defiant in the face of undeserved condemnation of an organization that perpetuates systemic hate and abuse towards others. The abuse and hate are very real and greatly eclipse any message of love and hope that your church supposedly wants to spread.

steelchaser "I'm a Bible-totin' Catholic and that works for me for many reasons. I'll be polite and stop here."

The only reason you can carry a Bible now is because millions of people have died who fought for that right. Had they not won, it would still be forbidden today. For centuries, the Vatican forbid the reading of bibles, forbid to translate it in different languages and only a very few could understand it (if ever one could even touch it) coz their bible was written on a dead language called Latin. The interpretation was even suspect coz it was done by only one person.

If Donna Freitas had written this piece centuries ago when the Vatican was still at its peak, you won't hear from this lady again. Under the St. Peter Cathedral in the Vatican is the biggest catacomb which was just unearthed recently. It was used as a torture chamber or secret prison cells for those who say something against the Church.

The Vatican is the Seat of Satan and Catholicism is one of the devil's religion. The reason you stay in this church is because you don't understand the Bible. Why else would they ban it for centuries.

Had these abused people complained at the wrong time (a few centuries or decades back), it would have been the end of their life story.

"Hi I'm Donna Freitas, I didn't get raped by a priest but I didn't get molested, well almost. I did write a book, it isn't about rapist priests or even me but I did write a book... This is just the right time to tell you about it because I'm really strong in my faith and maybe other strong catholics will buy my book to see what a catholic girl of strong faith has to say even if it's not about anything but me, me, me and my family and my theological knowledge but not about the topic on most of your minds, nor even about why you read my article....thanks, please buy my book."

I understand Donna. A Catholic myself, by the time I was 13 years old, I figured what the nuns were teaching me didn't make any sense, was blatantly contradictory, and I didn't need to either believe the Catechism or act in conformance with it.

Since then, as a political anthropologist I have studied the Catholic Church. My inescapable conclusion is that the crux of the problem is the Vatican. Manifestly un-Christian, it is a medieval power structure that has refused to change with the times, though obliged to shed the Papal States, it continued with it's former status as a nation-state, the Holy See.

The Vatican is corrupt. Too much is known about its scandalous financial dealings to believe otherwise. Moreover, the role it plays in the political scenario--for example endorsing Bush/Cheney in 2004 because of their anti-abortion stand, backing the far right in Italy for more or less the same reason, and its willingness to go along with the mafia when convenient--is very very far from the teachings of Christ.

Catholicism needs to be rescued from the Vatican. The Vatican has to be forced by Catholics to be dismantled. Will this happen? It depends on the role played by persons like Donna Freitas and other honest believers who should keep in mind that submission is complicity.

Unfortunate situations like this give every anti-catholic nut in the county an opportunity to attack the church using the scandel as a foil. The church and the faith have endured for two thousand years through Roman persecutions, the protestant reformation, communism, and lesser phenomena with an anti-catholic flavor. The church will endure this as well and the demands that the church 'change' this or that belief or practice will be forgotten. The strength of Donna's faith endured while the priest involved no doubt carries a much heavier burden for attempting to assault her innocence. The priest engaged in the criminal conduct, Donna engaged in the truth.

Raised mega catholic, I remember sitting in Masses where the priest lectured ad nauseum about the subservient role of women in the world, to which my mother responded, "That's right, that's how it is." I went to catholic schools K-12. In high school, one of the priests went after female students. Rumor is that he got a few. He was removed from the school later, and rose to great administrative posts in the diocese, dying with accolades from all who knew him.

Unlike you, I left the church and never looked back. I don't understand why catholics tolerate this nonsense in any way. I refuse to be treated as a second class citizen and don't understand why you accept this treatment.

Well, good for you, Donna Freitas. You take me right back to the days of being a white Southerner in the during the civil rights struggle. Now, I was a coward. Early on, I opted out of the segregationist apologists and joined those who said it was time for segregation to be gone with the wind, like slavery.

But some of my relatives hung in there behind "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." Just like you, hanging in there with the Catholic Church. My relatives, of course, had nothing to do with--indeed, abhorred--the violence, bombings, and lynchings engaged in by some extremist segregationists. My relatives, you see, were the good segregationists, who realized that segregation was good and served a noble purpose. They just could not understand why some people wanted to judge such a wonderful thing like segregation by the acts of a few extremists. Just like you are a good Catholic, who abhors the wretched acts of a few Catholic sexual predators, knows the Catholic Church serves a noble purpose, and cannot understand why some people want to judge a wonderful thing like the Catholic Church by the acts of those few sex perverts.

My relatives knew that violence, lynchings, beatings, and murder of black people over a hundred years did not for one minute prove that the whole culture of segregation was rotten to its core. No, sir. Just like you do not believe for one minute that the thousands of acts of sexual perversion, and their cover up by the Church hierarchy for decades, proves for one minute that there is something wrong with the whole culture of the Catholic Church. No siree.

So you hang in there, Donna, with your principled, courageous stand behind the Catholic Church, just like my relatives took a principled, courageous stand behind segregation. If you ever come south, you can spot your kindred spirits easily. They're the one displaying the Confederate battle flag.

Ms. Freitas,

If you want to believe in the supernatural, you are certainly free to do so in the good old USA. It's one of many things to love about our country. A person can believe in unicorns, fairies, ghosts, aliens from outer space, anything that can be dreamt of. But the "powerful people" you refer to only have the power you supply them.

The above contributors Donna have said what needs to be said against your 'defense' of the Pope and the Catholic Church'; it really is illogical and somewhat wharpped in the state of your cognitive abilities. But it is of the mindset when the Church and it's leaders defended it's support of Hitler and their denial of the killing of the Jewish people during WW II. What frightens me is that more schandal and repors of child abuse by Priests will come forth and we have a Pope and Vatacan Church in pure, blind defense of him, esp when one Archbishop refrers to the 'Catholic members not buying into the gosip now being said of the Pope. It is not gosip and yes I as one life long Catholic am questioning my belonging to a Church so difiant in protecting in a sense a criminal himself, that it sickens me. No, Donna you do not have your facts nor story straight and you are 'brainwashed' by the Church in your blind support of them. May God, not the Pope have mercy on your soul and statements.

The Church's systematic cover-up of the crimes of its members is only abetted by the utter silence and acquiescence from its "faithful" followers, which by the way is expected from good Catholics anyway.
Condemnation of the crime and the perpetrator is a natural reaction from any well-balanced human being, as is sympathy with the victims. But that could just be my secular upbringing talking. Apparently, this doesn't apply to Catholics, or at least the good ones. At the end of the day, it's always a resounding ME, ME, ME in these people's head that finally leaks out into their writing.
"How is this going to hurt the Church?" "How is this going to affect my faith?" These are just about the only reaction I see from people who still adamantly identify themselves as Catholics.

Here's what troubles me about your "defense"--it sounds eerily like an infomercial to sell your books. That is creepy. Then your defense is some sort of ethnic, cultural circling of the wagons and at other times it is a masochistic rubbing of your scar. But whatever it is, it sounds like a pact with what is ill to remain ill. So you'll stay no matter what, eh? even if your church harbored people who burned women alive? harbored Nazis? I don't know, abused children and yet continued to promote the Abusers? I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds that not only a poor defense but a disgusting one.

Yonkers, New York
04 April 2010

I can only admire Donna Freitas for deciding to remain a Catholic--forever a Catholic--in spite of the fact that a Catholic priest stalked her for a long, long time.

That scary episode in her young life should normally have led one to be disaffected and completely disllusioned with a priest belonging to a 2,000-year-old institution, the Catholic Church, which adherrents look up to as the fount of virtue, decency, integrity and morality.

But the fact that Donna Freitas has not speaks to her complete devotion and allegiance to Catholicism. She has the qualities of a true Catholic martyr. Right or wrong, Catholicism will always be for her. That is admirable blind loyalty.

It should help a little to assuage her pain, which will remain for her the rest of her life, that she has now fictionalized her own terribly harrowing experience in a book which will be out shortly.

She is lucker than the tens of thousands of trusting and innocent Catholic boys who were ravaged by the likes of that paedophiliac Catholic priest, Fr. Murphy, in Wisconson, who won't ever have the chance to let the whole world in on their ghastly experience in a book.

Mariano Patalinjug

I had a comment percolating in my head, but I think MikeB8 said everything I wanted to say, and far better than I could have. What he said.

Spidermean2, I read your posting once and wondered about you. The second reading confirms your ignorance and bigotry.

I'm a Bible-totin' Catholic and that works for me for many reasons. I'll be polite and stop here.

For those among you who consider yourself defenders of the Church because of the many good works it undertakes (and it certainly does)...

Instead of speaking out in blind defense of the Church, why not speak out openly and vociferously in opposition of the Church's shameful obfuscation of widespread abuses by its priests? Why not denouce the Pontiff's role in suppressing negative publicity at the cost of protecting children?

Do that, and you will have no reason to defend the Church as it would only be known for good works...

As a postscript - the Church has been adopting the stance that sexual abuse is a societal problem and that it is being singled out unfairly. To this I respond: 1) There is a difference between a random neighbor molesting a child and a self-proclaimed servant of God doing so (the emotional toll of such a revered person committing these acts is staggering). 2) The church is not being singled out for the fact that there are child-molesters within its ranks - it is being singled out for SYSTEMATICALLY suppressing information about child abuse to protect its own reputation.

You don't need a church to believe in Jesus.

Especially not a church who discriminates against women and homosexuals, who stood against science, who exercised violence against anyone who opposed them, who in a world of oppressed women and 7 billion inhabitants still opposes contraceptives and even early abortions. (Btw, I am certain Jesus would have been on the other side of everyone of those issues. )

So what good has this church actually done? I know there are some good people in there somewhere - but they would have been good anyway, without the church. And to stay good they have to, even if clandestine, go against its teachings.

I am Catholic and I have no intention of changing that. Against whom must I be stubborn or defiant, Ms. Freitas? Is your opposition in the mirror?

It is bad enough that such heinous crimes were committed by those with whom we were taught to entrust the welfare of our souls, and thus feel safe in our persons. Can you see that and admit to it?

All of the priests who are truly serving the people who are what the Church really is are in the field. They are humble men, like Jean-Louis Vianney, the Cure d'Ars.

Vianney slept in a very plain bed and lived on a diet of boiled potatoes. He owned nothing and cared for his parishioners in a way that directly confronted the evils of the day. He died in that parish in his unheated room and never lived as well as those he served.

Why do you suppose that he never got to the Vatican? Could it be that his humility was incongrous with the arrogant, closed, materialistic, too-good-for-the-faithful "corporate culture" of the mid-19th century Vatican, the same one that almost made St. Bernadette go insane because young women don't hear voices (re: Jean d'Arc). Forgive me, I digress when I get near thoughts of inquisitions

It seems to me that this same corporate culture is running the show today when the people demand justice and redress of the wrongs done and it is called "petty gossip."

How arrogant is it when the pope (no capital "p" for this guy) responds to reports compiled by the Irish government that have laboriously documented the ghastly crimes of paedophelia and rape of at least one girl who was in the hospital by writing a totally vacuous pastoral letter to the victims as a balm for their *scars?*

It is the culture of coverup and arrogance that is the problem, Ms. Freitas, not the belief system in and of itself. Everyone is allowed to have a belief system, if they so desire.

Is arrogance, opacity, and holier-than-all below-us the mamagement model for the Catholic church? As that's the case, why should some of us, maybe lots of us, not protest with the objective that pope "hide it all" resigns and his successor starts the healing?

You might stay with writing instead of trying for a Defender of the Faith. It will pay better and might get you recognized.

Oh Spiderman you are so full of it. My hats off to you Donna and your courage. I was abused by a Nun in 6th grade. Not sexually but emotionally. It was horrible, I wanted to commit suicide. I never forgot and it haunts me to this day at 72. I disagree with the Vatican and feel they need a real housecleaning. Although I do not call myself Roman Catholic anymore I am still a defender of this church and it's good parts as I see them. I admire your loyalty because it is going to take your loyalty and mine to topple the wrong that we as a whole let happen with silence. Again Spiderman, unless you know anything other then shiet, shut the f up please dorpus.

What is an evangelical Christian?

1. Believes on salvation by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ. It's a gift and not thru our OWN WILL. It means that good works follow as a result of salvation and not before in order to be saved.

2. Believes that only the Bible is the source of their doctrine. They inherently love the word of God which is the Bible. (My sheep know my voice and they follow me)

3. The Bible can only be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. It is spiritually discerned. (This is the reason why unbelievers who read the Bible continue to be stupid)

4. They preach for two reasons. They pity the unbelievers and it's God's commandment.

5. Salvation cannot be coerced coz it's a gift. God decides whom to save. We can only share the gospel. Salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit.

6. They are only answerable to one Master -- Jesus Christ. This is the reason why they have no "holy person" whom they consider as their leader.

In other words, Catholicism is a fake Christianity or the devil's religion. It's a pity that Donna Freitas continue to believe that she is serving the church of God when in fact she is surrounded by wolves in sheep's clothing.

The term "scholar of religion" is at best an oxymoron and at worst a threat to intellectual life. Why is it that religion is the only area of human life where people may say anything they like without proof, evidence, analysis or reasoning, and it is accepted? If just one of you feeble-minded sheep would show proof that some god exists, then perhaps you could be taken seriously. But this has never happened and never will happen! The world is such a mess because you people refuse to educate yourselves and move beyond the realm of the absurd. I often wish there were a hell -- just for the believers!!!!!!!!!!!!

Conveniently for you--heterosexual--your Church hasn't conducted a decades-long campaign of defamation, demonization, condemnation, dehumanization, and vilification against your very existence. To this gay and happily EX-Catholic, your grand declaration that you're staying thoroughly reeks of self-absorbed privilege. The straight woman is remaining a Catholic. Big f'ing sacrifice!

Aunt Hortens,

Thee:
"I have been reading these posts for the last couple of days on the sex abuse situation and they make you shudder they are so irrational and devoid of any sense of reason or proportionality."

Here's some proportionality for you, Aunty:

The Cantalamessa Calculus:

Let α) be:
Calling the RCC hierarchy to account for aiding and abetting its own criminals.

Let ω) be:
Systematically torturing and killing entire peoples.

α = ω

Q.E.D. (quintessentially evil, duh!)

So the sullying of the church's self-image is on a par with genocide. And this excrescence is not from some fringe-dwelling lunatic, but from the mouthpiece of the VICAR OF CHRIST HIMSELF!

The Vatican's sense of "proportionality" nutshelled.

Hortens,

Thee:
"the right hate us because they think we are controlled by a foreign power (which we really should be) or do not follow the bible which we alone wrote, follow and have maintained for 1600 years."

What Bible is that, Hortens? Is it the same one with all those purloined writings by Israelites in it? I didn't realise Amos, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and their Jewish confreres were all baptised parishioners of the Roman pontiff. And I was also under the impression that they were active in the first millennium Before Christ, which is significantly earlier than your 1600 year timeframe.

How like a Vaticanist, to erase Jews.

I AM Catholic. I believe in the message of Christ. Yes I am ashamed of the sexual scandals in the Church, but the media has only focused on these scandals, and have forgotten about the other aspects of the Church.
This is my view of the Catholic Church:
It is a group of people, clergy and the laity who believe in the message of Jesus Christ. The priests who committed the sex scandals are only a small portion of the Church. The Priests and clergy that I know personally are among the best people I know. Not all priest are like the ones who committed, but they are nonetheless human.

And not all Catholics are blinded followers. I am more moderate than other Catholics. I do not agree with everything the Church preaches, but with these scandals coming up, I feel that I am obligated to defend the Church.

I understand that people are against the Church. That is your opinion, and I respect that, even if I disagree. I only ask to not condemn those, like me, who openly defend the Church. This is America, where free speech is guaranteed without limits of opinion.

Donna Freitas,

Thee:
"I became a master-avoider to this priest's never-ending, ever-more-creative advances and attentions because I didn't know what else to do or how to handle them."

Donna, it is brave of you to open part of your story to the hurly-burly of blog-comment.

Rhetorical-ish questions arising for this post-protestant apostate:

Why would God "call" someone with these proclivities (and others like him) to the priesthood? Does such behaviour prove his "vocation" spurious? Would this priest simply have been better off married, or were his problems deeper?

Of the many folk I've known who have been through the Catholic education system, there is not one without anecdotes of creepy, predatory, or outright abusive behaviour from male religious. Why is it that such a significant proportion of those who receive priestly "vocations" turn out to be psychosexual cripples? It makes one wonder along several lines:

- whether the rule of MANDATORY lifelong celibacy for priests actually makes the healthy sick;

- whether the priesthood is simply a magnet for perverts;

- whether the "Holy Spirit" is an incompetent recruiter, and thus, in fact, no third person of any Holy Trinity.

I would not wish to tar all Catholic religious with this one ugly brush. Perhaps, in the interests of keeping the office of priest in good repute (and we have all seen recently how greatly good repute matters to the Vatican), abusive priests could be more easily defrocked and, if necessary, turned over to police investigation.

Or is "the call" too sacred to be subjected to mere justice?

Thee:
"My Catholic faith is so much more. It is my family, my friends, my professional life as a theologian and scholar of religion. It's the way I mark time during the week and the year and the food I cook depending on the holiday. It is a childhood and a lifetime of experience. It is all over my writing."

Culture trumps culpa? Maybe so, maybe so ... As you relish your rich heritage, consider that Catholicism requires others to forsake theirs for its sake. It is the doctrine of your One True Church that those who do not belong to it are more-than-likely destined for an eternity of conscious torment.

Or is that another point of disagreement between you and your hierarchy?

Nothing personal, Ms. Freitas, but you should look up "Stockholm Syndrome". You and several posters here seem to be suffering a rather strong case of it.

flint: "I am a Catholic who hasn't been to mass in months. I've been both lazy in my faith and cynical about the Church."

Ha ha. I remember the nuns telling us it was a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday, unless you absolutely could not make it to church (e.g., very sick, held captive, dieing). Might as well live it up and have some sinful fun, because you no longer have a soul to lose.

To Hortens: you stated that those who object to religion object in a way that is "irrational and devoid of any sense of reason". You've summed up religion in a nutshell, thank you. Ghosts, goblins, invincible men in the sky, talking to said invicible beings, big boats with animals, no evolution, parting seas and so on and so on and atheists are the irrational ones? We simply live in reality, that's all.

Religion always has been and always will be for people who can't think for themselves.

It is a sickness. Please try to think it through so that you can successfully and permanently divorce yourself from these creeps.

Everyone who is a Catholic has to make up their own mind as to what he or she does about leadership that is so out of touch it can't see what these priests have done to these kids or how the leadership was complicit in these crimes when it covered them up. All of us, Catholic or not, must ensure that all those who abuse and rape children and those who cover it up are brought to justice regardless of who they are.

Donna, I attended Catholic schools my entire life. I know 100s, if not thousands, of folks who went to Catholic schools and are very involved in the church. Not one has ever told me that they were molested or advanced on by a clergy member.

No offense to you, but leave only it to the Washington Post to find an articulate defender of the faith who has been advanced on by a member of the clergy. That reflects well on us. Thank you Post; you never disappoint.

In any event, what you are about to see may surprise you. For a lot of complicated reasons, the American experience with Catholicism has not been an entirely positive one. The left hate us because we have not gone along with their mania for the sexual revolution. Much less so, the right hate us because they think we are controlled by a foreign power (which we really should be) or do not follow the bible which we alone wrote, follow and have maintained for 1600 years.

So get ready: you are going to see a lot of raw hatred in these posts. I have been reading these posts for the last couple of days on the sex abuse situation and they make you shudder they are so irrational and devoid of any sense of reason or proportionality. You may some day want to discover why this is so.

I have many issues with the Catholic church including, but not limited to, its insistence that Catholic priests must take a vow of celibacy (unless of course you are from the Eastern Church or were an Anglican minister), as well as the lengths it goes to in an effort to protect its image at the expense of vulnerable and defenseless children.

But I also realize that the Church is a man-made religious institution and, as such, reflects the same human flaws that all human beings have. And like all humans, some religious institutions also have more faults than others. But the fact remains that no religions or their institutions are without at least some shortcomings.

Because of my disagreements with some of the Catholic Church's positions, I have also visited many Churches and explored the basic tenets of faith espoused by a large number of other monotheistic religions'(Islam and Judaism as well as other Christian faiths)in my search for a better answer. But I never found one.

Based my own experiences, I also believe there are more far more Catholic priests performing their duties in a spiritual and pastoral manner, than there are priests who are abusing their positions of trust within the Church. I have come to terms with the flawed nature of this man-made institution called the Catholic Church and so I now simply accept it for what it is, rather than what I wish it to be.

I will still continue to disagree with the Church on a variety of issues, but I will not allow those disagreements to drive me away from worshipping in a Catholic Church as a way of professing my faith in the basic tenets of the Catholic religion that I continue to value. Love and tolerance of the faults of other humans is one of them.

It is easy to condemn the Church and turn away from it because of the actions of some of its leaders, including the Pope. What isn't so easy, is to continue to work from within it to change and improve the Catholic Church as a practicing Catholic.

charles laffiteau

I think Donna Freitas won't leave the Catholic church for the same reason you hesitate to leave a bad marriage with someone you once loved: You've invested so much into it, you fear you can't bear the loss. "He/she" or - in this case - the church, has become "part of you", you think.

Well, the church may certainly need people like Donna Freitas, but I don't think she needs it.

If you loved the Dark Ages, you just might be a Catholic.

Guybrarian: This sounds more like brainwashing than indoctrination. Maybe that brainwashing is why so many Catholics go through agony about their attachment to the Church - they want to leave but it pulls at them - has them in a death grip. To Donna: You want the ceremony, good works, liturgy and beauty without the bureaucracy - try an Episcopalian Church or some similar denomination. Break whatever is binding you to an organization that torments you (if it didn't would you have written what you did??).

Ms. Frietas commentary is sad and rather pathetic. I am one of those fallen-away catholics, so that in some twisted way entitles me to speak with authority I suppose. The problems wrecking the church can easily be addressed and resolved, but catholics wont do the heavy lifting because of their staunch support of the church and their unyielding devotion to tradition and dogma. In my years as a seminarian, I found that catholics are illiterate when it comes to scripture and bible knowledge, but well versed on the teachings of the church. Thats not going to change any time soon. Their sins will remain and the faithful will continue to go blindly down the path over in to the abyss. Make a note of this. The crimes the church is committing are horrific, but I guarantee you this...the worse is still yet to come.

How nice... I suppose, but not very interesting. Perhaps in future.

God and I have an understanding, I was raised Catholic, I understand the Trinity, nice try for your "proof" of it, and for it!

Seems you have some power crazed desires to be more, thus the hawking of your Book, nice play...

I am a Catholic who hasn't been to mass in months. I've been both lazy in my faith and cynical about the Church.

But I am still a Catholic, and I know I'll be back.

People like commenter mscheurer, accusing us "idiots" of belonging to a corrupt organization, are people who have not experienced true Catholicism. These are people who see only the bureaucracy of the Church.

But I have seen the people of the Church. I was taught by nuns who dedicated their entire lives to educating and helping troubled young women. I listened to deep, interesting sermons by brilliant priests. I watched a community sacrifice to make life easier for single struggling members. I have met hundreds of clergy and lay ministers who have never hurt a soul and are appalled at the child abuse scandal. I was raised in a faith that engrained in me love and forgiveness and respect of others.

Remaining Catholic is not about just doing what I always have done; it's about knowing that there IS good in an organization that has done obvious bad. It's about wanting to fix and heal the Church and not simply abandon it. And it's finding the faith that makes us Catholic while seeing the bureaucracy for what it is.

Many people are disgusted by the many scandals and power plays of US politics, but it makes them no less American. So it is with Catholics.

I can't explain it any other way. I'm sorry if others don't get it. But Ms. Freitas does, and I'm glad she's here to write about it.

Give Donna a break, everyone. From her post, she doesn't sound like one of those tunnel-visioned rightwing Catholics but more likely one of the thoughtful, broad-minded majority that makes up the Roman Catholic Church. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Catholicism but it's not the cause of all evil. In fact, I always detect a bitterness or a heartbroken quality to the criticism I hear of it today. Molestation is indefensible. But the Roman Catholic church isn't just about molestation. Likewise, there are reasons to criticize the pope. Nonetheless, on a trip to the United States he reminded Americans that "faith and reason go hand-in-hand." Those words alone are notable, especially for a population where the absurdity of the modern American life seems to justify an absurd, irrational, threatening and ever more popular version of evangelical Christianity. So in the best tradition of American tolerance, let's wait and see what Donna has to say. And yes, Happy Easter everybody.

"It is my family, my friends, my professional life as a theologian and scholar of religion. It's the way I mark time during the week and the year and the food I cook depending on the holiday"

This is called indoctrination. And the Catholic Church does it better than most. It's brilliant on one level, and it's why you'll see little in the way of evangelism from the church than protestant denominations. However, when there is abuse of power, those with authority don't have to do much in the way of examination. They know they've shaped your world view, and even when they grossly violate you, they know you'll stay Catholic, have babies, and raise them Catholic too. They don't have to reform themselves or examine if their message is reaching a modern world. Just take the believers you have and convince them to have babies, babies, babies. Indoctrinate. Rinse. Repeat.

Why would one desire to make their irrational myopia so manifest?

Sorry, but I think this lady, like so many other folks, needs and uses religion and their "beliefs" to substitute for the gumption to exert themselves and be part of the living world. One works at being in the fore front of their existence or one acquieses to exist at the bidding of those who do exert themselves.

Probably the only example of this not being a truism is the recent election when so many people bought the sales pitch of a really good used car salesman and we all lost.

I REFUSE to listen to defenders of the Church liken criticism of the organization to being "Christian haters."

Absolute nonsense - the Catholic Church is an organization whose primary aim is self-preservation. Criticizing the institution is completely different than criticizing those who see Christ as a savior and adhere to biblical teachings.

Those that are Christian haters and Jew haters, don't mind killing innocent babies, so what's new.

The "church" is dead. Look at the vile comments by Raniero Cantalamessa, personal pastor to the Pope, comparing the latest scandal and cover-up akin to anti-semitism. In the twisted bizzaro world of the Catholic church this is another vile attempt by the perpetrators to shift the blame again. These people just don't get it. Nothing wrong with being a Catholic, something really wrong with the insane sleazebags who make up the bureaucracy. It seems that it is time for the reign of popes to come to an end. It serves no purpose.

" I think. Easter is about resurrection, about new life, rebirth, beginning again, and most of all hope."

In relation to ongoing sexual abuse scandals this is quite fitting, but misses an important point. The resurrection required sacrifice - Christ's personal torment, suffering, and death.

The Catholic church refuses to sacrifice, refuses to suffer. It wishes to preserve its position of power, silence critics, maintain authority, and simply move on without seriously addressing these issues. When the Easter sermons began with a comparison between criticism of the Church's behavior surrounding child sexual abuse and systematic extermination of the Jews it was obvious that the Church would cede no ground.

Rebirth requires death - even a symbolic one. But the Church wants to skip that part and get right to moving on...

You are certainly welcome to your personal faith and love of Catholic tradition, but your blind defense of the organization - made up of people - is disheartening. Because you love the faith so much I would hope that people like you would vociferously denounce the evils of the Church and demand change.