All Comments (125)

Starhawk,

You are very inspirational. We are so happy that you are doing this.

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I've read with great interest (and in some respects scattered frustration) all the comments on this board. Thank you all so much for this enlightening conversation.

BTW, Terra....thank you for your 7/7 post which beautifully expressed the feel of PSG's opening ritual. It brought back many old and wonderful memories!

If you like the, "Circle In" lyrics by Peter Conover, that Terra Gazelle referenced, check out his website at www.peterconover.com

I couldn't say anything better than what Starhawk has written in regards to the right of Pagan chaplains and their services in the military called Pagan Chaplains and Public Servants. So if you want my opinion then read Starhawk's response to this question twice.

ANTAEUS,

Yes, GOD hates sin and loves sinners like you and me.

Thanks and goodbye

ihab

ANTAEUS,

GOD hates sin and loves sinners like you and me.

Thanks and good bye.

ANTAEUS,

GOD hates sin and loves sinners like you and me.

Thanks a good bye.

The purpose of the Chaplain would be to provide for the religious needs of the Pagan soldiers, just as Christian chaplains do for their soldiers. Just because our definition of Deity does not fit your own does not mean we do not have religious needs. If you scroll about 2/3 of the way up this thread, Athena addresses why Pagan soldiers need Chaplains fairly well. The job of the Pagan chaplain would be to assist soldiers in observing whatever Pagan holidays they observe, and with whatever rites their practice participates in. For example, a friend of mine who is Pagan is about to go to Iraq. Even though he is Pagan, he has not devoted as much time to the study of his religion as I or many others have, and probably would have difficulty performing some of the more complex rituals on his own. This is where the services of a Pagan chaplain would be useful.

I'm afraid I believe, and have experienced, that all things have a soul, both what you would call living and those things you would say are not living. All of these are part of the living body of the Goddess Gaea (at least, those on Earth are), as well as the Universe as a whole.

Not being Christian, I do not suffer from the condition know as "sin", therefore do not need to be saved from it. Besides, I am fortunate in that I am actually not capable of nor compatable with being a Christian, so cannot be tempted to become Christian. And you say that your God is love--did you know there are more scriptures in the Holy Bible about what God hates than about what God loves?

ANTAEUS

Let me start by sincerely thanking you for this candor chatting. Also, let me apologize if I have offended you in any manner of speech. Sometimes, it is convenient for someone to think that his/her own ideas are main stream compared to the others'.

Let me also continue this chatting by submitting to you that what you believe in is fundamentally your own concern. Let me present you with the following points:

First: You have been contesting that any Religious standard is unconstitutional; nonetheless, you still demand to have a chaplain -a religious figure- for all Pagans serving in the military. Why would you need such a religious figure if you do no believe in GOD? Chaplains, I assume, are for those who believe in GOD, serving religious duties! In other words, what would be the job description of such a military position that would represent all Pagans in the military?

Second: It is good that you have been an atheist for that long. However, I think it is about time you give GOD a second chance. I say a second chance because I truly and honestly believe that every human being always knows GOD before he/she becomes “intellectually capable” to refute the presence of GOD in their lives. To me, this has been a fact because of the Holy Spirit that dwells in all of us; the human beings. The Holy Spirit guides us towards serving and worshipping GOD the Creator. After that revelation and at a certain age and a certain stage in our lives, some of us try/choose to crush the Holy Spirit that resides in them in order to follow on their own designs in their lives, and to get nurtured/raised on some "intellectual supremacy" the day they read something or listen to someone or become victims of someone's misgivings, which would ultimately lead them to distrust GOD and choose to deny GOD for whatever others have done unto them. Also, why do you think all other creations do not pray to GOD? Because animals, birds, and all other creations do not have in them the Holy Spirit of GOD. They only have their own bodies and souls. Whereas, humans have the three: flesh, soul, and the Holy Spirit of GOD.

In here, let me make a confession that might disappoint you: I am a born-again Christian who believes in GOD as the source of all creation including me and you.

Now, the question is "who is that GOD?" Obviously, GOD is not reflected in your father and brother the preachers, and for that matter, GOD has never been even reflected in any human being except in HIS HOLY SON; JESUS CHRIST. For JESUS CHRIST was born in the flesh, but without sin, as the SON of GOD, to be our Holy Sacrifice that redeem us from our sins. Probably, you have heard that before, and therefore, the question is still who is GOD? I personally believe that the answer is in the Bible, in Luke chapter 1. Try and read it.

Third: I pray that GOD and HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, be with you all the time, and bless us all. For GOD is everything and all in all, including LOVE.

Ihab:

You miss the point. What you believe, or what I believe, or what you think I should believe, is not the point. Any standard you set up to distinguish between what you think is a religion and what you think is not a religion, or any standard anyone else sets up, is unconstitutional. Now, it may very well take us a while to achieve our goal of chaplains in the military--it took us _many_ years to get our symbol approved for veteran's tombstones. But unless the courts go far afield from their current pattern of rulings, eventually we will get our chaplains.

Other than that, the Moon has told me many things, as has the Earth, the Universe, and Hera herself, for that matter. To start with, I had been an atheist for 10 years when very early one August morning in 1984 I went out onto the front porch to look at the moon. When I went back into the house I was Pagan, by disbelief in all things spiritual shattered. I won't get into specifics here, for it is my belief that all persons should form their own spiritual connections and receive their own communications from the devine. In general, though, what I have been told and what I have experienced is that All Things are intimately connected, all things are devine, and what you do to any part of the whole affects all parts of the whole, including yourself. As far as Origins go, The Universe gave birth to Herself, no outside force necesary.

As for worshipping the wrong things--as I said, I was an Atheist, worshipping and believing in nothing. I began worshipping that which introduced itself to me, and showered me with love, beauty, and acceptance. Any Deity(s) which wish to do the same to me are welcome to, and some have. As for your (presumably--you haven't actually said) Monotheistic God--lets just say I was raised in a very fundamentalist family, with a father and brother as preachers, and what I expereinced from them, and from their God, was _far_ from loving, beautiful, or in any way accepting.

ANTAEUS,

I am now more informed about Pagans, and I should admit that I knew little about Paganism. I agree with you ANTAEUS about having one measuring standard to evaluate (not necessarily to judge) how people can describe and measure their faith whether in God or in a Deity. However, I totally disagree with you to describe Paganism as an umbrella term for several religions. Let us put things in perspective:
1- You do admit that you, as a Pagan, do not believe in GOD.
2- You also point out that there are double standards (prejudice) among people when they attempt to describe their religion as compared to others', which, I would guess, also include your own perspective (prejudice) towards my own description of God.
3- You also indicated that you worship the moon and the earth and the alike.

Here is my take:

I believe in GOD who created the earth, the moon, and the universe, and therefore, I believe in the Creator and not in the creation/created. I also tend to distinguish among people who have a religion and other people who have faith. You might have a religion that tells you how, when, why, what, to worship, but it cannot guarantee to you that what you worship actually exists on its own without a Creator. Consequently, you might be worshiping the wrong thing(s) for the wrong reasons. In the old times, people used to worship the sun as a source of un-explained energy that sometime caused devastating fires for them. They feared the sun, and therefore, they worshiped it. What was the most recent thing/inspiration that you got from the moon that you worship? Did the moon tell how to treat other people? Did the moon told you why it is not good to steal or why it is not good to have sex with your daughter or your brother or your son or your mother? Did a Deity tell you why it is not good to worship another man just like what the Mormons have been doing? Who taught you the good from the bad, the evil from the kind? Was it the universe or was it the earth? If any of your Deity told you what is good and what is bad, then I think you have a credible reason to ask for your sect's own Chaplain in the military. Otherwise, you still need to learn more about GOD, a lot more than you what know about the universe ... that GOD created ... and for a reason.

Ummm, IHAB, you haven't actually studied what it is that Pagans actually believe, have you? And we want a Chaplain to serve the Pagans in the military, not one in Congress, at least not until an openly Pagan person is elected to Congress, (I'm guessing thats still quite a ways off).

As for believing in God and having a religion, I would say that Paganism is an umbrella term for several religions, each of which most likely worship Diety, most of them probably more than one form of it. I don't know if any of the diety forms worshipped by any of the Pagan religions would meet your definition of God or not. Myself, I am a Pantheistic Panpolytheist, meaning I have experienced Deity both in Nature and also in various forms that it has taken to be worshipped by Humans. So, I worship a Deity that is composed of everything that exists, and that I call "The Universe" when I am worshipping it. I also worship "The Earth" and "The Moon", as well as such specific personality-based deities as Bridget, Innana, and Dionysius. Other Pagans might worship (and indeed believe in) members of only one specific pantheon of deities, or be a pure Pantheist and worship Deity as revealed in Nature only, eschewing the worship of personal deities. Many Wiccans (a specific and popular form of modern Paganism) worship two Dieties which they call "The Goddess" and "The God", believing all other Dieties are aspects of them.

Now, it is all very well to say therefore that Pagans do not believe in "God" and do not practice what you would call a religion. But I have personally heard Christian ministers argue that Mormonism is not a religion and that they do not worship God, since the way the Mormons describe God is, in their opinion, incompatable with any definition of God that is meaningful to them. I am sure these same ministers would have similar opinions about Hinduism, Buddhism, and doubtless Scientology or Bahai' as well. This is why the Constitution does not allow there to be tests of establishment or recognition of religions. If we believe we are following a religion, you must treat is as one, or else judge other people's religions with the same standard you would judge ours with--and it is this setting of a standard that is unconstitutional.

ANTAEUS was right, the word "God" only appears once in the Declaration of Independence. The word “God” does not appear in the US Constitution nor in its amendments (Bill of rights) nor it appears in the non-ratified amendments.

However, what I wanted to say was that a Chaplain is a religious figure that serves religious duties, and since pagans do not believe in God why would they insist on having a religious representative in Congress if they do not believe in God and have no religion?

Actually, the word "God" does not appear in either the original Constitution nor the first ten ammendments, commonly called the Bill of Rights. The word does appear in the Declaration of Independence, but this document has little legal standing as compared to the Constitution.

Pagans should not be allowed to have their own chaplain in the US Congress because they do not believe in GOD as the Master and the Creator of the universe. This is in contradiction to the US Constitution that declares GOD as the source of human authority on earth. Obviously, if a sect or a group of people claim that they are spiritual and supposedly have a clear conscience that does not mean they believe in GOD. In fact, most of them (Pagans) deny the very presence of God. Therefore, Pagans are NOT entitled to a religious representative (i.e., a Chaplin) in any official or governmental setting.

On the other hand, any religion that observes GOD as the source of life in this universe should be allowed to have their own Chaplain in the US Congress provided that their followers are upholding and abiding by the US Constitution as the sole and source of authority over their existence as Americans in USA.

To Henry James:

While Pagans don't proselytize, I have to admit a smile came to my lips when I read that the shining examples of Paganism you have seen here have given you reason to look in the direction of Paganism as your own path. Regardless of how that Path may manifest, may I offer you a heartfelt welcome to the broad circle of traditions that are Pagan and hope you will find your own place at the hearth?

No idea what you're trying to say, there, Andre.

It doesn't make sense to me: Paganism is not a creedal, authoritarian or proselytizing faith: we find our paths through a value on awareness of the effects of our actions combined with an observation that doing harm is bad for all concerned.

We worship the Gods we find in the world and our traditions, ...this isn't about 'leading anyone astray,' ...in fact, there's a lot of safeguards against this sort of thing *because* of the way we deal with authority.

We're personally accountable for our paths, with the Gods' help, not living in a world where we try and follow someone else's commands and hope that if we don't do anything 'wrong' that there'll be good.

It's much more direct: there's simply no mortal fear of being damned for 'error.' To us, the universe just doesn't work that way.

We expect to deal with the effects of our actions more immediately and for a longer time than judgement-based systems seem to, ...for you, it's like, 'Heaven or Hell, then it's all over.'

To us, it goes on. Darn skippy we pay attention where we're going. :)

Pursuit of Popularity and Comfort
Religion, Souls, and Power.
------------------------------------------

In the pursuit of popularity and comfort, many of us lost so much that we do not even realize till one day, at the last minute from the last hour of the night of our life, when to say good bye to the world, God open our eyes and tears are coming down and we do not have the right to tell any one because our mouth is shut, our muscles become disable, our eyes may see but all sorry to say to others stay away from.... and our followers will go where we told them to go and if it was a mistake, they still will go because God removes our power to control our life. He takes total control over it at time of death and after death.

We love the help of every one in this society. It is not God who condemns us to make choices, we do make them because we have more than one masters and who is the best among them? We made them because we fought for it. But our choices cause us to suffer in many ways. They are poor choices even though we call them great. But we can convert them into greatness when we realize there still is a chance in life to change. May be this can be the one thing good about religion, do not like it, walk away, it is not good for me, I am free to walk away. When I found the one I like, I will stick to it. Can we walk away from all religions when we believe that it is not good for our souls?
Is there anything wrong with that? No.

However, in our desire to be accepted the way we are condemns us to make not much effort to see the real world we live in. It is not easy to do something about it because God gives freedom, we transform it into license. Our message is based upon our feeling and our imagination and we project it into reality of life. This is where we may all go if nothing can stop us.

The reality is why do I feel this way and express myself that way? Whatever I say may be true to me, it may help me because I have been chosen for it. But, what if my peer follows me and get into troubles. This leaves us with our destiny in life. But, we do not have the same destiny. One of our purposes in life is to strive to understand our destiny and work upon it. If it is tragic, do not invite any one else into it.

Religion, Souls, and Power

Andre

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Dear Chaplain, your final statement is exactly the problem, and unwittingly puts the lie to your stated respect for the beliefs of others.

If you cannot manage the same compassion for a dying pagan, because you are stuck (and I use that term without rancor) on the personal belief that there cannot be peace after death for a non-Christian, then you really should not be a military chaplain.

Try this instead: Pagans are not ignorant of the Father, they have simply chosen a different path. If you were to offer a prayer to your God to light the pagan's path, I think you will find it to be more than sufficient for the pagan's "failure" to meet your expectations.

That's the thing I keep trying to tell em, Greg, ...once you start compromising on liberty and equality...

It never ends.

Look real careful how you treat us, Christians.

Pattern is,

You'll be getting it from each other an eyeblink later.

Frank,

Just wondering something here. You've stated "all christians have a common thread - as do all jews."

What is your opinion then, of the popes recent redeclaration that christians who are not catholic are not christian and that noncatholic churches are not real churches because they don't trace the lineage of their bishops back to the original apostles as is stated that the catholics do. He has also started a directive to restore the Latin only mass and also has made remarks against other christian denominations for not useing latin only.

It doesn't sound like they are following much of a common thread here.

"But I must say, in a matter where a death is involved, hope goes along way, but without knowing who our Father is and His offer of mercy and grace thru His Son Jesus Christ, it leaves a hopeless situation that is difficult to comfort."

You have to understand, Chaplain, that Pagans are not Christians, ...we don't need 'comfort and mercy' from your Jesus because we don't see death in terms of your Hell.

It's only 'hopeless' to *you,* apparently, not to Pagans.

Is it so hard to understand, that we don't rely on your religion for *hope?* We've got out own, and , frankly, it doesn't involve being 'saved' by a God we're supposed to fear. Death is its own thing as it is, but it's not the same kind of existential terror in our religion. We feel pain, we get scared, we usually don't want to go, just now, ...like anyone else, but we trust the Universe isn't out to get us. :)

I've done a fair bit of comforting, myself, in some pretty dark places, for people of all manner of religions. Being of a minority faith, the question of differing belief came up pretty quick, but the answer's as simple.

You focus on *their* needs, not yours.

I don't think you really *give* hope, in a sense. You just help people find it when they're otherwise tending to think they can't find it.

Folks in a tough circumstance need *human caring,* not orthodoxy, anyway. The most powerful magic of all this is much simpler. You show that 'Help exists,' and hope shines.

Maybe you fear that people who 'don't recognize your father' have no hope.

Everyone seems to know Mother. You don't have to say it. :)

A Chaplain: **But I must say, in a matter where a death is involved, hope goes along way, but without knowing who our Father is and His offer of mercy and grace thru His Son Jesus Christ, it leaves a hopeless situation that is difficult to comfort.**

Which is another reason why "minority" faiths should have access to a chaplain who understands and shares their beliefs, so that s/he can offer sincere comfort and empathy. For you to offer comfort to the family/friends of a Wiccan who dies in the line of duty makes you feel like a hypocrite, because you honestly believe that the person is damned to hell.

As a Chaplain myself, our purpose is to provide comfort compassion and hope. We put aside our denominations and minister to the persons needs. I know I always ask if a person has a particular religion and I respect their beliefs. I ask first if they would like prayer and don't take for granted that they do. We don't have answers to most questions but we do offer compassion and comfort. If a person has no particular belief I don't push mine on them at this critical time. It's not the place for evangelism. We'll just sit and talk, (pray if they would like).
But I must say, in a matter where a death is involved, hope goes along way, but without knowing who our Father is and His offer of mercy and grace thru His Son Jesus Christ, it leaves a hopeless situation that is difficult to comfort.
In His name, Peace, Love and Hope to ya all!

ATHENA, is that web site, not my web site but "that" web site any less professional or difficult to read or contradictory than the Bible, Qu'ran, Book of Mormon or anything Pagans have to offer. Does the dress of the messenger have anything to do with the message?

Nothing hurts like the truth. The truth should feel good and does to all but liars.

If the CONTENT of that web site offends then make a good self examination. If the DRESS offends then you're only looking at the superficial. Jesus couldn't afford razor blades ya know so He wore a beard. Maybe that fellow can't afford professionals to do a professional glossied up job. After all, his FAITH is taxed, he charges nothing, not even advetising and refuses donations, (Like Jesus said for His ministers to do?).

You must love Hollywood what with all the tinsel and glitter,, like American beer kinda lacking in body don't you think? That web site has a lot of body with plenty of muscle in all the right places.

I'm with the wiccans/pagans etc., on this, since I usually support the underdog. I loathe dogma.

But basically, I think the military has no business providing "chaplains" of any sort, since that position, structurally, serves to facilitate the Killing Job. You train'em to kill, and the chaplains comfort them about the killing. Talk about cynical...

Oh, I do wish "Starhawk" would provide normal photos of herself. Her otherworldly gaze, in the one supplied here, is a bit hokey. (PS: It's also a stylistic innovation developed by Alexander the Great's court artists--not exactly good company, Starhawk!)

frank collins,
I figured I would make a breif coment on one of your many interesting postings,

"does a druid chaplain understand the asatru cerimonies? does one asatru pray the same as all other asatru's?

all christians have a common thread - as do all jews. "

I have a slight difference of oppion on this staement as from my various years of study I am lead to belief that it would be far more likely that a Druid Chaplin would indeed have at the very least a working knowledge of Asatru cerimonies than say a (example) Southern Baptist minister would of a basic Roman Catholic service (Both being ofcourse part of what is the Christian religion)
Now I will agree that it may be easier for say one Protestant minister to lead a service for a different Protestant church (example say a Lutheran minister running a Methodist service.) Than say a Morman minister (still considered Christian religion) performing a Pentacostal Holiness chruches service (again a Christian church).

Just a thought..

Ooops. A T H E N A, "Merry Meet!"

Here is A Wiki on "ROGATION DAY" as I was 85% right! And thanks for Correcting me too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogation_days

"Blessed Be!" O.K. O.K, I'll meet yous half way if I could & i know WE will. Hay, In America & With LORD/ECLATi, anything is Possible! Ya Ya.

< ?:+)' Ya Ya.

I haven't found any pictures of the Rally...Does anyone know where some may be posted?

Blessed Be
~)O(~

"Lox Et Veritas!"

Would that be the Smoked Salmon of Truth? I think you mean "Lux et Veritas". :D

Never heard of Rogation Day - is that when they give out the Sacred Rogaine?

However, Pentecost (or Ascention Day) is close to the beginning of May, or Beltaine.

Pagans - at least those of us who are Wiccans and Druids - follow the Celtic calendar for our major holidays. We have 8 in a year, approximately one every 6 weeks. They correspond with the solstices and equinoxes, as well as four dates falling between them, or "Cross-Quarter Days". They are:

Yule (Dec. 21st, or Winter Solstice)
Imbolc (Feb. 2nd)
Ostara (Mar. 21st or Spring Equinox)
Beltane (May 1st)
Litha or Midsummer (June 21st or Summer Solstice)
Lammas or Lughnasa (August 1st)
Mabon (Sep. 21st or Fall Equinox)
Samhain (Oct 31st)

I can't speak for the Asatruar as to whether they celebrate the cross-quarter days.

BGONE: I think that a lot more people would take that website seriously if it looked more professional. It looks like the ramblings of a paranoid conspiracy theorist with a rudimentary knowledge of HTML. If you're going to push your website as a valid source for an argument, at least have the decency to make it coherent instead of amateur hour. When researching something, I look at a LOT of websites. Stuff with multiple colors and a lot of rambling gets a quick visit to my "back" button.

Well said CHRISTOPHER W CHASE. I'm a little slow myself and have been unable to discover the MOTIVE, WHY one would start a Pagan ministry. What with your insight and originality I'm waiting to hear.

"Listen, if you have ears" and I'm all ears momentarily.

In case the question baffles you, here's a hint.

Have you seen http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul yet? It says the MOTIVE, WHY ministries are begun is economic, money with the big money going to those who lead the multitudes to hell.

From that vantage point of knowledge we can examine the "freedom" to start ministries supposedly afforded all in the USA.

Frank's just mad cause 'he' can't define us, so he prefers to cut and paste to try to prove.. something..

Frank Collins wrote:

"...some nut cases wanting to be a pagan - when no one actually can define what a pagan is, does not mean they get chaplains...yes this is a cut and paste - but how else do you show that there is no common thread between these groups and that they are not entitled to chaplains as no chaplain can actually minister to the others."

Christopher responds:

Mr. Collins, regardless of your perspective, it does no one any good for you to simply repeat falsehoods that many (including myself) have refuted elsewhere in this discussion and in the academic literature (see Alan Cooperman's blog entry), nor it is helpful for you to copy and paste unattributed material (even openly) from some source, without telling anyone how it allegedly fits into your argument or contention. Plagiarism is never helpful in a serious discussion of either religion nor anything else.

JOZEVZ, you gotta be kidding. The ministry WORK? Wash you mouth out with Bon Ami. The whole idea behind being a minister is to avoid WORK.

It's the morality of the situation. W,O,R,K is a four letter word and we know all four letter words are immoral. Now take B,U,S,H for example. Whatever are they doing out there in the bush? Ya ya yourself. Oops! Can't do that, it's immoral too.

US army must have fair representation of pagan chaplain. Pagans believes in naturalistic world view. They worship nature in form of gods and godess.Pagan gods donot author holy books,donot
impose code of conduct,donot force people to worship otherwise be burned eternally in hell.They are as silent as nature.
Believers of Abrahamic faith say's "praise the lord'.
Pagans says,"curse the lord for immense suffering
of mankind".
"Praise the cow for giving us milk free".

well, Concerned, you seem to enjoy defaming others. To what end? Again, I repeat- How 'Christian' of you. You don't even take into account those people who wrote in FROM IRAQ themselves who are in the best position of all to talk about their experiences with those other Pagans around them. Enough Pagans on bases to warrant not only a chaplain but to have a place to hold their circles.

How many meets your criteria? If there were only a few Christians on a base, you get to be the one to tell them they can't have a chaplain cause their numbers are 'too small'

I find it interesting that anytime someone posts responses you put your hands over your ears and seem to enjoy calling people 'cults' and going 'show me stats show me stats' and then when people do, you go 'lalalala can't hear you.."

Any Pagan Chaplain should be versed in all forms of Paganism. As well as other religions if they are needed. They are there to serve all. Get over yourself.

It's OK, Terra. I've... Got my reasons. It's a little complicated. :)

Mostly that I don't serve as an HPS, and that's what the title usually means in the communities I've served in. :)

'Real name,' though. That sounds like what *they* say. I still look at my legal name kind of funny, sometimes. Got used to my street/magical name. :)

PP, Sister it is...that is a title I hope you will return.

I use the title Lady as an arrogance at times..and sometimes as a point. I am also Rev. But I like the title Lady better...it is from my religion, not something I have to take to fit into the square hole. But I have to sign Rev. Keir Gazelle on marrage licenses...even though KG is not my real name. At least in louisiana you are allowed your religious name.

terra

Concerned, don't make merepeat: There are more Pagans serving openly in the military than Muslims. Muslims have a whole bunch of chaplains.

All chaplains are expected to perform the vast majority of their duties for people of whatever faith comes to them. Actually, this is largely administrative.

Pagans not being represented has everything to do with people who want to deny Pagans legitimacy.

None of these 'pagan cults' you list are 'cults,' and most of them aren't Pagan.

*Pagans* however, are *quite used to being part of a much larger and very diverse religious community, thanks.*

We don't see 'orthodoxy' in the same way you do.

This means that the problem with our diversity is *yours,* not *ours.* You have a problem with the competency of chaplains, question the ability to serve of those Christian sects which *cannot* respect the diversity of faiths and non-faiths that exist *for real* in the military *now.*

"Oh yes Lord PP ( for lack of knowledge), I sure do!"

"Sister" works. I don't really go by titles. I only ask anyone to call me "Reverend" (or "Lady," if I'm feeling snippy) when someone insists I call them "Father" and is a jerk about returning the courtesy.

:)

Lepi!
Oh Next year PSG...!

Maybe we can gang up and go...
I loved falling asleep with the distant drumming like a heartbeat.Dancing the with the heartbeat of the Mother...me and moon and fire, and over it all the heartbeat.

Oh and stopping by Caffena's for coffee on the way to the Village Green for morning meeting. Haveing a morning dance to the drums..a wonderful way to get the blood pumping and the spirit singing.

Driving through that magick gate,then missing it so bad when we had to leave at the end of the week. It is always such a culture shock after I get home.

Lepi, now I am homesick too.
Next year Home.
terra