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Salam,

It's comical how some of the non-Muslims have always tried to take verses from the Quran out of their context to reach their sick goals of putting us down lol. It has been ongoing since the time of the Last prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him], but guess what, our belief is strong no matter what they do. I only pray that Allah guides them and us to light of Islam, the beautiful religion of peace, no matter what the haters say. No offence intended.

Allah knows best

To those citing verses out of context to discredit Islam:

Take the following verse:

"Fight for Allah's sake those who fight you but commit no aggression, for Allah does not love the aggressors"

(Qâtilû fî sabîli Allâhi, walâ ta`tadû inna Allâhi lâ yuhibbu al-mu`tadîn)

It's a great achievement for Islamic leaders and scholars as well as Newsweek and the Washington post to present this imperative opportunity for inter cultural and global philosophical dialogue. What's important is that by exchanging our ideas and comments regarding inter religious relations and world events that affect our views of each other as fellow human beings. Since the advent of humanity, We strove to make sense of the world we live in and the lives we've experienced. Worldwide curiosities to learn the true nature of life and our universe is an exceptionally rare virtue upon life on Earth. In other words, we're the only known species on the planet who've pursued to unravel these great mysteries and developed written philosophies based upon our understanding of the world around us.
One such philosophy that lasted throughout the ages of humanity is commonly known as religion and spirituality. Ever since our early belief in the Sky God and the God Mother from ancient Pagan times, we vigorously pursued to unravel the truth about our most profound questions. As any educated person would know that religion and their core beliefs or faith have evolved over time. Paganism, Monotheism and Polytheism have been influenced by humanity as these great philosophies have influenced our perceptions and decisions in life over the ages. Over time humanity has embraced diverse religious faiths and spiritual convictions that continue to influence our behavior in our times and most likely beyond.
What's vital for humanity's progress and even survival is to know the true nature of faith itself. To understand the true origins of faith. But most of all, is to accept the truth for whatever it may be. Each one of us will learn the absolute truth once we die. But until that time comes for anyone of us to depart this world, we really don't know the answer to God's existence nor do we have the absolute truth in regards to the true nature of God. Besides if we did possess the truth, there would've been only one religion on Earth with no diversification of any way, shape of form. There would only be one holy scripture written throughout human history.
Considering one's religious faith to be absolute, while considering others to be false would be ethnocentric at best. While collectively searching to unravel the mysteries on nature, life and the universe through sincere reasoning and serious research would be enlightening at its worst. Most importantly, we must accept the fact is that none of us have conclusive evidence to confirm our core beliefs and there's always an immanent change that our most cherished beliefs could be wrong. Our greatest challenge would be to tolerate the truth no matter what it may ultimately be. With such an open mind, we would be able to overcome any future discovery that would contradict our faith regarding the true nature of life, spirituality and divinity.
Humanity does have the ability to achieve such a social achievement. However, it's solely up to humanity and not any other entity or groups of entities to decide our destinies. Each one of us has a choice to make; either hopelessly engaging into meaningless inter cultural conflicts or combine our scientific and cultural gifts to thrive into an enlightened global civilization that could ultimately expand beyond our solar system. The choice is yours, and the time to make it is now!

As we obviously have some Brotherhood supporters trying to put themselves forward as honorable advocates of democracy, lets look at some history:

The Muslim Brotherhood (Al-Ikhwan Al-Muslimun) also known as the Ikhwan is a good example of what we must protect ourselves against.

The Muslim Brotherhood (“MB”) organization describes itself as a political and social revolutionary movement; it was founded in March 1928 in Egypt by Hassan al-Banna, who objected to Western influence and called for return to an original Islam.

The Brotherhood is an expansive and secretive society with followers in more than 70 countries, dedicated to creating a global Islamic order that would isolate women and punish nonbelievers. Its members and supporters founded al Qaeda, as well as one “of the largest college student groups in the United States.”

The Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Combating Terrorism, Juan Zarate, stated recently, “the Muslim Brotherhood is a group that worries us not because it deals with philosophical or ideological ideas but because it defends the use of violence against civilians.” In fact, The MB 1982 secret plan, (the Project) recently exposed, instructs all members locally and globally “To channel thought, education and action in order to establish an Islamic power [government] on the earth.”

The Muslim Brotherhood has historically and continues to actively pursue the establishment of a Muslim regime that will serve as the basis to re-establish the Caliphate, not only by defending violence against civilians, The current leader of the international Muslim Brotherhood, Mohammad Mahdi Akef, “recently issued a new strategy calling on all its member organizations to serve its global agenda of defeating the West. He called on individual members of the Muslim Brotherhood worldwide to not only join the “resistance” to the U.S. financially, but also through active participation.” In the MB Project (1982), Point of Departure instructs members,” To use diverse and varied surveillance systems, in several places, to gather information and adopt a single effective warning system serving the worldwide Islamic movement. In fact, surveillance, policy decisions and effective communications complement each other.”

In an interview to the London based Asharq Al-Awsat, an international Arab newspaper on December 11, 2005, Akef stated that “the Muslim Brotherhood is a global movement whose members cooperate with each other throughout the world, based on the same religious worldview - the spread of Islam, until it rules the world.”

To that end, Akef said, “the Muslim Brotherhood… are an all-encompassing Islamic organization, calling to the adoption of the great religion that Allah gave in his mercy to humanity.” Meanwhile, according to its leader, the MB is busily cementing its ties: “We are in the global arena, and we preach for Allah according to the guidelines of the Muslim Brotherhood.

All the members of the Muslim Brotherhood in the international arena operate according to the written charter that states that Jihad is the only way to achieve these goals.

“Ours is the largest organization in the world,” he said.

Akef emphasized, “A Muslim in the international arena, who believes in the charter of the Muslim Brotherhood is considered part of us and we are considered part of him.”

In earlier interviews,

‘Akef called the U.S. “a Satan that abuses the religion.”

He said: “I expect America to collapse soon,”

declaring, “I have complete faith that Islam will invade Europe and America.”

Although U.S. observers often view the Muslim Brotherhood as well as Hamas as less violent than al-Qaeda, the Brotherhood has long been actively supporting global jihadi efforts.

“Prior to the U.S.-led attack on the Taliban regime, the Muslim Brotherhood actually had training camps in Afghanistan where it worked with Kashmiri militants and sought to expand its influence in Central Asian states, especially Tajikistan.”

It is not surprising, therefore, that the Muslim Brotherhood reacted to Hamas’ January 2006 electoral victory as not merely as a local achievement, but “a victory of the Islamic nation in its entirety,” and as an expression of the concept that “the path of Islam is the true solution.”

As the parent of all Sunni and many other Islamist terrorist groups,

the MB, to deflect attention, uses its long-term strategy, known as “flexibility” (muruna) in Arabic.

This chameleon-like adaptation is tactical moderation with the ultimate objective of complete Islamization of society.

Indeed, the MB’s 1982 project calls on members “To reconcile international engagement with flexibility at a local level.”

Today, when the West focuses on Islamist terrorism, the MB usually refrains from publicly advocating violence. The MB’s 1982 Project, calls on its members:

“To master the art of the possible on a temporary basis without abusing the basic [Islamic] principles… we should not look for confrontation with our adversaries, at the local or the global scale, which would be disproportionate and could lead to attacks against the dawa or its disciples.”

As stated on its charter and its website:

the MB seeks to install an Islamic totalitarian empire, a worldwide Caliphate, through stages designed to Islamize targeted nations by whatever means available.

A principal danger of MB activities is that they are hidden behind “religious” ideology. Moreover:

this ideology dictates concealment (Kitman).

In fact saying, “we should keep hush-hush on things that are still in preparation.”

This ideology controls every aspect of life and seeks to impose that control on everyone.

In the end, the MB intends to overthrow all secular governments and impose Islamic law (Shari’a) worldwide, and it is diligently pursuing this goal.

In July 2005, former Kuwaiti minister of education Dr. Ahmad Al-Rab'i, wrote in the Arabic London daily, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat:

"The beginnings of all of the religious terrorism that we are witnessing today were in the Muslim Brotherhood's ideology."

Thus, on its website, the MB advocates,

“Establishing the Islamic government.”

“Building the Muslim state…Building the Khilafa…Mastering the world with Islam,”;

This would necessarily deprive Americans of their First Amendment, rights.

The first clause in the Amendment states there shall be “no law respecting an establishment of religion.” The First Amendment also upholds an individuals’ right to religious freedom.

But as determined by its doctrine, the MB would exploit that right—along with First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and assembly—to actively seek the imposition of laws that would deny religious freedom to everyone else.

The topic is about Muslim violence. This is directly related to the flaws in the foundations of Islam and its book of death which bases its authenicity on Mo's communications with that fictional character called Gabriel who was borrowed from the Christians who borrowed "him" from the Hittites and other ancient religions.

Ironic how a peaceful fictional character ended up giving credence to a violent religious movement!!!!!

Asim my Bro : There is no occupied Palestine; only liberated Israel. I am anxiously awaiting Dr. Jackson's ideas about zombie bombers,as you requested.

Read the koran and see the militaristic/violent and anti-female passages. Read history and see the flaws in the authors/foundations of said book. Read the daily news and see the results.

Yes - I am new to this forum. In fact, I was under the impression that this discussion was only for 1 week as a result of the OUTLOOK special section of the Washington Post. Thank you all for the advice, yet as I don't wish to discount anyone really, I am probably foolish enough to still struggle with CONCERNED. You might say - I have become 'concerned about them.'

JIHADIST - Please forgive me for my erroneous preconceptions in regard to your name. It is inspiring to see one truly at the greater jihad.

It sounds like you are a very fine person doing excellent work within your community. In fact, your community sounds much more enlightened than mine and it sounds like there is also less support for destructive-oriented aims in your community than in mine. It is a pleasure to be able to talk with you.

All the Best ~ Jililah

Jililah,
Apparently you are new on On Faith, otherwise you would not waste your time on sterile "deabting" with Cncnd the delinquent.Every body around here know he recycles the same BS over and over again-I wounder why does not the WP block him.

cncnd the delinquent,
why did the Romans forget to throw u to the lions? So u can prove your stupidity and recycle over and over again On Faith.

Jihadist, Jihadist, Jihadist, Jililah, Jililah, Jililah,

When are you going to address the key issues i.e. the flaws in the foundations of Islam??????

Again, again and again, take an easy flaw, the Gabe "thingie"'s visit to big Mo. The rest of the flaws will then easily flow from the Malaysian high ground (in case you have to take refuge after denying angels exist).

Jililah

Assalam mualaikum,

Shame on you to think of Jihadist in negatives.
The western media's appelations and terminology got to your eh? As you know, the correct Muslim term term for a Muslim who wage war is Mujahid as singular, and Mujahideen as plural. Jihadist is western media invention:)

I believe in greater Jihad. As should all Muslims for their individual and collective good and well-being.

I believe that we are our own worst enemies and some Muslims do tend to blame others. All that energy expended in blaming others is best used to think up of effective ways to get the umma forward.

I go to mosques for communal prayers not only as a spiritual act, but also to continue to be part of the collective community action for social and humanitarian activities for the poorer members of the umma and those in need. And gve as much as I can for Muslim charities for Muslim NGOs whose activities I support. A form of shaping agenda and activitie. Whoever has money can and do dictate what the charities and NGOs in need of funds, and every year they are answerable to you as donors.

Yes, I am being threatened by some of my excitable fellow Muslims heretics and such, that I will go to hell and such, and letters of badly written death threats to intimidate. But, they have no power over God and me, or to come between God and me. Sometimes, I only have to ask them back, all Suras and prayers are preceded in the name of God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful. Are you being as compassionate and merciful as God. Besides, I can afford better lawyers than them:)

However, my current fellow and former countrymen who are Muslims and most immediate members of the umma are Malaysians and Indonesians. They can be reasonable, can be discussed with, and do want to improve the lot of the Muslim umma. The best way forward is forever discussed with so many different interpretations. At least, we do move forward on things we agreed to, and agreed to leave matters we disagree to be on hold until the next round.

I go to mosques to listen to what the imams are saying and see what's up in the community. I go to different mosques to hear different imams. Some are, of course better than others.

No, I am not an enigma. Just a Muslim finding the best way to help move the Muslim umma forward. Aren't we Muslims suppose to take a holistic approach in life? To see the forest from the trees? To tend to the trees that makes the whole forest? To plant new ones and uproot the poisonous trees affecting and poisoning the whole forest?

As for Concerned, how could I be angry with him when we have Muslim "reformers" just like him that is equally agressive to his fellow co-religionists and sometimes, those of other faiths? Thought I must admit I have never read of a Muslim reformer vilifiying other faiths and beliefs like him.

I have to contend with the like of Concerned in the Muslim world too, everyday when I'm free. Sometimes they are worst than traditional and conservative Muslims in angering the umma, and I have to help spend a lot of resources - NGOs and funds, to help diffuse the situation and to refocus on issues of primary concerns to the umma with other like minded Muslims. Too much time is spend provoking each other rather than work on common concerns.

I pick and chose my battles carefully. I don't want to be expending my time and energy on non-Muslims or some Muslims for that matter, who don't have any say, nor direct impact on the well-being of Muslims in moving them forward. If the non-Muslims want to know about Islam, there are countless books on Islam and Muslims by Muslim authors.

If I am to describe myself on mattera on Islam and Muslims, I will say I am a Muslim. Period. As you know, Christians, like Hindus, Jews and Buddhists, are still grappling with temporal issues and on how best they can reconcile their faiths with these issues and the apparent flaws in "organised" or "institionalised" religion in practices and rites that was not stated nor required by the holy books, but developed by priests, members of the clergy/ulema over centuries and which now burdened believers more than churches, temples or mosques and the Shariah courts.

I have been reading these On Faith threads for a while now. Trust me. You are not changing anything here nor can anything be changed at the practical level. Some will say the same thing over and over again regardless of what you say.

I am not quite into full-time "crusade" in On Faith on Islam actually. I leave the Muslim panelists to speak on it I started to read on Faith as I am interested in what non-Muslims are saying on their own beliefs.

My original intention was never to write posts here, but sometimes, I just can resist in spite of having more fun reading perceptions on Islam and Muslims.

I am a banker by profession, in Islamic banking and financial services, a field dominated mostly by men. Ao emotion is a professional liability in this very competitive, infomation is power and bad decisions can cost millions of dollars in losses business. And besides, anger is a negative and counter-productive emotion when directed to the wrong targets or is misdirected from better use of all that energy. In the Qur'an, God also reminds us to always be patient:)

Peace be with you.

J

Merry Greet, PAGANPLACE - Thank you for the heads-up on possibly 11 dimensions now - very cool! Well I guess they already did prove or have a good hypothesis for not 10. I need to catch-up. Thanks for letting me know.

Peace, CONCERNED - I wasn't aware that I left a comment of yours, unanswered. There are so many threads now in multiple locations, I don't see what you are referring you. Would you please post your first comment to me again? I became distracted - my 'thingies' have such interesting things to say!

As Salaamu Alaikum JIHADIST - You're right about reformation being an ongoing process and lately Christianity appears to be backsliding becoming more fundamentalist and intolerant of others. I didn't realize so many Americans are killed by Americans annually. I guess their street gangs are taking a toll.

You make a good point that I must remember to look at the whole picture in perspective. I advocate trying to not let the emotions rule, but admit that being threatened by fellow Muslims infuriates me. Doesn't anyone go to a Mosque for Salah anymore - it all seems to be politics and scheming instead. You sound surprisingly reasonable for one who refers to themselves as Jihadist. What's up? Are you emphasizing the greater jihad of self-improvement?

Interesting attitude you have toward CONCERNED - being more interested in these eclectic posts rather than angered by them. I'm getting the vibes of a rationalist and intellectual with psychological insight from you. Or are you too an enigma?

We should probably take our discourse to the general comments section as I believe this area is meant to be for response to Professor Jackson's comments.

For The Jihadist only,

I see your guardian "thingie" got you safely back from the mountains. Any revelations from the prophet while you were hiking??

And since you are back, how about helping Jililah in answering my first posting to her?????

Jililah,

You noted:

"What I see in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is an inspired progressive challenging a backward and crude society. "

Unfortunately, history sees Mo as an illiterate Arab who hallucinated about seeing the "thingie" Gabriel. Also modern day "prophets" are labeled fortune tellers which should have been the label for any "prophet/profiteer" of any time period to include those listed in the OT and NT.

The seerer of "thingies" also had scribes/biographers who added a militaristic, anti-feminine agenda to the koran. Or maybe the "illiterate" one actually dictated the agenda to the scribes? In either case, it has resulted in conduct unbecoming of any social progressives. Such conduct is 24/7 global terror as per the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics with most of this misery being sponsored by the Third Axis of Evil aka Iran and the "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

HI, Jililah. I've been reading a lot of nice posts from you, welcome to the 'fray.' :)

Thought I'd note this:

"I am a Muslim but also enjoy Superstring theory but must face the reality that somebody, someday may prove there are not 10 dimensions."

Actually, thought you might like this: it's looking like eleven, now: reconciles the different superstring models into one that fits em all. Simpler that way. :) M-theory. :) Branes and the like. :)

Jililah

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated is a Christian reformer who is still in the midst of reforming Christian thoughts.

Who says Christianity is still not undergoing "Reformation"? :)

From what I've read, he's record of success among traditional Christians is spotty. And these American Christians are among the most educated peoples in the world, with the greatest access to information and knowledge, not to mention the latest in OT/NT scholarship.

I find Concerned fascinating for he is also seeking to see what makes the core of Islam ticks apart from educating his fellow Christians on the latest in Christian archeological research, scholarship and theology.

Sometimes, I think there's more than one of him, judding by the different tones of his posts. He is a very interesting and multilayered fellow, this one:)

And Concerned's explanation on baptism, a new, revised one, to a fellow Christian in another thread on another question, do make my head spin in wonder.

Peace be with you.
J

Concerned The Delinquent,
having seen your posts,it is below my dignity to debate with some one like u.

To Dr. Jackson and the rest of the Muslim community,

I apologize on behalf of my neighbours to the south. I assure you that there are decent people in America and Canada who are ready and willing to understand Islam and welcome Muslims as an indigenous faith of America and Canada. You will not find those people here, however, because they do not cowardly hide behind their computer screens and viciously attack the beliefs of others.

They are out there, though. Keep striving and you will find them.

Jeff

Anonymous:

BGone,
with all due respect you are both ignorant and stupid with a cross-eyed vision-sorry about that,in fact no vision at all.

Anonymous:

What you sez I is you am.

hehehehehehehe

Dear Concerned - The Christian Now Liberated:

I understand the point you are making and as someone who attempts to keep an open mind to all hypothesis, have investigated similar theories myself. If you now consider yourself an agnostic, an atheist or someone who rejects all labels, I respect your ideas and am glad that we can discuss these issues.

In your ideal world, possibly there would be no religion or mythical beliefs at all. Have you read Joseph Campbell? He points out that no matter what our position, we are trying to live up to our personal 'heroic' ideal - our own mythology, so to speak. We choose these 'ideal' systems to organize our lives around. They bring order to the potentially chaotic nature of our environment with an unexpected surprise around every corner. Maybe your ideal - your ordering system is Quantum physics, psychoanalysis, Kantian philosophy or superstring theory. Whatever it is, it is your own unique choice for ordering your experiential data and may aid you in contemplating the great existential questions that accompany our human condition. Whatever ordering system you have chosen, I could call a mythology, even if you can provide me with empirical evidence as by seeing the world through that particular lens, you must ignore other empirical evidence. There is simply too much of it in a myriad of fields for our brains to assimilate.

So, you have your mythology or ordering system and others have theirs. Religion - no matter what religion, is the ordering system that many prefer.

As you cannot program their minds to your liking, denigrating their chosen ordering system is a futile effort.

BUT - if you want to seek ways in which we can collectively try to bring society to a higher way of functioning that includes critical thinking and good science education, then it serves us all to find ways of coping with those who choose different ordering systems than what we prefer.

Whether any of the characters mentioned are man or myth really is of no consequence as it is their STORIES that inspire people and provide them a guide of how to order life in an ethical way. If Cinderella inspires welfare slackers to rise above sitting in the ashes, then more power to her! She has become real and worthy to those she inspires. If you want to burst the bubble and say - BUT SHE'S NOT REAL! SO WHAT - SHE INSPIRED BENEFICIAL ACTION AND THEREIN AIDED A HUMAN BEING.

I am a Muslim but also enjoy Superstring theory but must face the reality that somebody, someday may prove there are not 10 dimensions. Still, just thinking about this greater world of possibility inspires me and helps me view life as this enormous mysterious field in which WE can actualize what improves society and enables us to face the challenges of the destructively oriented beings. My ordering system of Islam though is the heart of my inspiration. What I see in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is an inspired progressive challenging a backward and crude society. Well, OK, now we have to do that all over again and purify Islam by returning to its human rights mandates, currently ignored by power regimes. Well, we did it before, we can do it again!

LEAVE IRAQ wrote
Therefore the only way to make ourselves safe from Islam is to separate ourselves from Islam.

That is not realistic. Islam is now deeply embedded within the entire Western world. How could you separate second, third and fourth generation Muslims born in the West? Their parents culture and language is often completely unknown to them.

What if you were 4th generation Polish and it was decided Poles were too dangerous and must return to their country. You are a US citizen, you know no Polish or Polish people. America is your culture and all you've ever known. How would you feel being shipped off to Poland? In addition, you were a good law-abiding US citizen.

Don't you see why simplistic solutions don't really help us?

Asim,

Islam's contributions to "homonidkind" ended centuries ago. Today Islam provides only the koranic code of conquering the lands of the unbelievers as noted by conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics with most of this misery being being supported by Iran's oil/blood profits.

By the way the billions of dollars Iran spends on supporting terror would make the State of Palestine a "mecca" of peace and economic bliss. Does not the terror activity of this Third Axis of Evil aka Iran bother you at all???????

Leave Iraq Now:

Your ignorance is appalling,before you post go and learn some history-basic history:
without the contribution of Islamic Civilization, there would hardly be a Western Civilization as we know today-which civilization is essentially basd on three pillars,
One:an infrastructure of classical civilization-namely Greek philopsohy,thought,ethics,deomocracy...and Roman Law;
Two:Christianity-which is not western by stretch of the immagination but a middle eastern religion-Abrahamic and Semitic in origin like Islam;
Three:Islamic Civilization in the intervening medieval period between the classical and the modern eras. Without the contribution of Islam,the European renaissance and the industrial revolution would have never materailized;this contribution was made thru 8 eight centuries of contact in Muslim Spain with Europe.
Read "Lost History," a newely published book by Michael Morgan about Islamic contribution to human and western civilization.

YOU MAY BE SURPRISED BGONE to find that I agree with many of your points.

I have tried to get the rotten apples out of my Mosque and persist in exposing them despite that my husband has been threatened by THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD - "You better shut-up that wife of yours or Brother you'd better be careful!"

The threats that those of us receive who genuinely ARE trying to get rid of the rotten apples are not vain threats - we are dealing with huge organizations with a proven history of violence and they DOMINATE OUR MOSQUES. We are a minority up against a well-organized force of many layers and a myriad of spin-off or associated branches. Plus now that they have learned to talk and masquerades as moderates, it is even hard for us to distinguish the genuine Muslim moderates from the impostors as they pretend to be moderates to infiltrate our progressive organizations, know everything we plan, so they can always keep one step ahead of us. They are not unlike the Mafia. To make matters worse, the US Government by pandering to people in these groups gives them credibility. Even this "On Faith" forum has given credibility to a few of them. On top of the fact they are supported by billions coming primarily from Saudi Arabia and UAE. We scrap by just to publish newsletters to put progressive Muslim ideals in front of the Muslim populous.

I too think suicide attacks are SICK and that these people are so primitive as to not value the sanctity of life of their own children makes it difficult to even imagine what insanity lies in their minds.

I also despise any religion trying to inculcate ethics or virtuous behavior by using fear of Hell and hope of Heaven. Children need to be taught to be benevolent simply because IT IS RIGHT, not because good behavior earns self-serving rewards and allay fears. A focus on generosity of spirit and integrity would help remedy that.

The religious tenets you emphasize are in the vein of the literalist/fundamentalist interpretation. When people acquire education and learn about allegory and metaphor and symbolism and liminal transition themes, they read sacred text very very differently. This is why education is one of our best hopes for the future.

BGone,
with all due respect you are both ignorant and stupid with a cross-eyed vision-sorry about that,in fact no vision at all.

Prof. Jackson thanks for a succinct and informative presentation on such critical issues-which issues were unfortunately hijacked and widely distorted not only by extremists who happen to be Muslim but also by Western media and self-serving politicians as well, at times due to ignorance and at others deliberately-observe for example President Bush’s truly regrettable juxtaposition of Islam and Fascism-Islamofascism. This WP form is an example of responsible media that allows Islamic experts to clarify and debate the issues, dispel the popular misconceptions about Islam and Muslims and ultimately bridge the gap. I would like to discuss one issue, Jihad-the aspect of “Suicide Bombings” or “Martyrdom missions”, depending on which side of the issue one stands.

The world renowned Islamic scholar and jurist Dr. Yousef Qaradawi is unequivocally main stream and falls within the definition of a Muslim by Quranic standards, namely that a Muslim is moderate by definition: the Quran says “We have created you a community of moderation…” Dr. Qaradawi is not therefore in the minority of Islamic jurists at all. Am interested to hear your opinion on the following reasoning behind his fatwa on martyrdom missions/or suicide bombings as I understand it and am not speaking on his behalf:

1// That Palestine is an occupied Arab Muslim land by a group of invaders-this time Jews-as it was invaded and occupied by the Crusaders (11th-13th century AD) who were ultimately evicted by Muslims; the conflict is strictly political and about the occupation of land and not in any way or shape against the Jews per se or their faith-as the case was with the German occupation of France in WW11 or the French occupation of Algeria 1832-1962;

2// The Quran rightfully sanctions defensive war against existential threat to any Muslim land or community and against those who evict Muslims from their homeland as is the case with millions of Palestinian refugees scattered in refugee camps who were evicted by Jewish terrorist gangs in 1947/8;

3// That Israel is armed to the teeth with the most sophisticated arsenal of modern conventional weapons backed by a formidable nuclear arsenal-compared to the dispossessed Palestinians who live under a brutal 60-year old military occupation in a state of Apartheid, starved, imprisoned or killed in their own homeland while the world looks on, in a state of human despair and desperation; with the Palestinians besieged from all directions in a big concentration camp called the West Bank/Gaza with meager or no weapons with which to defend their occupied land and families-resistance to occupation is legitimate and sanctioned by international law and by all religions and creeds;

4// That Israel systematically kills and murders Palestinians who are essentially made up of civilians-unlike Israel, they have no state and no standing army-and where essentially all Israelis are soldiers-of course with the exception of children-either in the standing regular army or in the reserve who have already completed their military service. Israel has a relatively smaller army with a large reserve standing by as a matter of strategic design;

5// That "Israel" never ever recognized the existence of the indigenous owners of Palestine-not even the State of Palestine as per UN 181;Golda Meir once said "What Palestinians?"

6// Israel never implemented a single UN resolution since its anomalous and questionable creation including UN 181 which created it-by devouring large chunks of the would be Palestine state in 1947/8.

7/// Jewish terrorist gangs such as Haganah, Stern and Irgun used extreme violence, bombings and massacres to ethnically frighten and ethnically cleanse Palestinians and destroyed over five hundred Palestinians villages to prevent their return as per UN 194-which 60 years later Israel still refuses to implement.

8// No land or resources left whatsoever for a Palestinian state: Israel occupied 78%of Arab historic Palestine in 1947/8 and 22% in 1967 (West Bank, Gaza and most importantly Jerusalem which was built by the Canaanite Arabs long before the Jews) AND again Israel annexed-slowly but surely by implanting settlements in full day light- over 50% of the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem-leaving 10% of original Arab historic Palestine for a Palestinian state ???The illegal Apartheid Wall only adds insult to injury and literally strangles the already suffocated Palestinians.

9/// Clearly Israel is any thing but inclined to peace and its intransigence is well known, it evens rejects the only possible solution: One secular democratic state -like the US-for all Arabs and Jews to replace the racist Apartheid exclusively Jewish militaristic theocracy. A ready list of Israeli excuses is presented at every turn to thwart any peaceful solution while the cancerous settlements devour more Palestinian land.

10 /// Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah and others were created in response to the extremely lengthy 60-year old brutal Israeli military occupation-the longest on going occupation in modern history; Hezbollah was created in response to Israeli occupation of Lebanon from 1982 to 2000 when Israel was evicted from Lebanon by Hezballah.

11 /// The issue is simple and clear: chronic brutal inhuman military Jewish occupation of all of Arab Palestine for sixty years which have and continues to torment Palestinians and drive them to despair has ultimately created martyrdom missions/suicide bombings.

With all of the above in mind, it seems that such missions are sanctioned even by Israelis: Ehud Barack, the present Israeli defense minister once said:”If I were a Palestinian, I would be a terrorist.” Of course the Jews employed such tactics of terrorism when they were not even occupied in 1947/8 to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians, against the British mandate-King David Hotel bombing and against the institution that created Israel by assassinating the Count Bernadout in Jerusalem in 1947.

Prof. Jackson, again, with all of the above do you think that Suicide bombings/Martyrdom missions specifically targeting Israeli regular and reserve army-excluding children and non-combatants-are sanctioned from an Islamic point of view?

Jililah:

You wrote, "For those who post merely to cast Islam as evil, irrational and false, please let me point out that at various times in history, Islam was a progressive force that assisted the rise of culture in the West."

Al Capone operated FREE soup kitchens. Doing good deeds does not make one a saint or even saintly. Devil too can and does do good deeds in the interest of deceiving the naive.

How's that? Do you like "naive" better than "evil, irrational and false"? Ever hear the expression "one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel?"

When Muslims do not resist the suicide attack they by their silence condone and in turn promote it. Muslims must clean out their rotten apples for the rest of us know that means the whole barrel will rot if it isn't already rotten.

There is no rational defense for suicide. It's perverted, rotten and it rottens all who do not condemn it. You do condemn suicide for any purpose?

Are you mentally capable of understanding that all natural normal people are identically the same at birth. We all have a natural and normal nature installed fear of death on our nebol bridges. The GUN of HELL held to the head puts additional fear of death on that natural normal fear. The natural normal fear of death serves the purpose of preventing suicide. The nebol bridge serves the purpose of coping with death. Can you do the simple figuring necessary to understand what precipitates the suicide attack?

http://www.hoax-buster.org explains that in pictures even. I don't know the page number. The GUN of HELL to the head is the source of drug and alcohol addiction as well as religious addiction and a lot more that hoax buster fellow didn't mention.

The mechanics are obvious. The source of the irritation is "GUN to the head" be that hell or a real gun. Hell is a gun used successfully by millions to rob the naive. Muhammad was just one of millions of gold miners in the biggest gold mine of them all, hell.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are rotten through to the core because they put the gun of hell to the heads of children and leave it there until it becomes a permanent fixture. Their license to do that comes from accepting literary hoaxes, Torah, Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, and others perhaps as God's word.

See how nice I am. I'm not just ragging on Islam. But of course, many Muslims have done many good deeds. It's the millions planning suicide to save themselves from hell that worries the world. Don't you think a little talk with them to discourage that is in order, tell them the Koran is a literary hoax and don't believe a word of it? You're not planning a suicide attack are you? Lucifer loves the self destructive.

From poster above:

"But the haters of Islam need to face some facts. As obviously Islam will not be wiped from the face of the earth, as you wish, what would you next hope to see happen to current day Islamic culture?

Answer:

Islam is a mortal threat to western civilization.

But we cannot destroy Islam.

Nor can we democratize Islam.

Nor can we assimilate Islam.

Therefore the only way to make ourselves safe from Islam is to separate ourselves from Islam.

From poster above:

"But the haters of Islam need to face some facts. As obviously Islam will not be wiped from the face of the earth, as you wish, what would you next hope to see happen to current day Islamic culture?

Answer:

Islam is a mortal threat to western civilization.

But we cannot destroy Islam.

Nor can we democratize Islam.

Nor can we assimilate Islam.

Therefore the only way to make ourselves safe from Islam is to separate ourselves from Islam.

For Jililah only,

Whereas I was Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Catholicism/Christianity, you were "Triple B'd" in Islam. The way to address the issues with both religions is to come to grips with the flawed foundations of said religions. Below is a short synopsis of these flaws. Please present references refuting these conclusions if you have them.

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth. Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian sects.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate (as per Karen Armstrong), hallucinating Arab (seeing and talking to "pretty wingie flying talking thingies", also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics with most of this misery being funded by the third Axis of Evil aka Iran.
ref.: the front pages of every daily newspaper.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For those who post merely to cast Islam as evil, irrational and false, please let me point out that at various times in history, Islam was a progressive force that assisted the rise of culture in the West. One of Judaism's greatest sages is Maimonides. In Maimonides famous work, "Guide for the Perplexed," the harmony of past ages was noted in the forward of this book. (The paperback edition with bright red cover - do not have it in front of me now to provide better detail, but you can find it on Amazon and THIS is the kind of reading we all need to do for consciousness raising to occur) Anyway, in the forward, a letter that Maimonides wrote is spoken of and he refers to Muslim philosopher Ibn Rush'd (Averroes) who advocated rationalism, as "My Master Abd Allah Ibn Rush'd." Maimonides works were written after the death of Ibn Rush'd, so he used 'My Master' not in the context of a living mentor, but as an expression of respect for a philosophical body of writing that inspired his own. I believe that Thomas Aquinas was then similarly inspired by Maimonides. If you value the contributions of Aristotle, Plato, Socrates and the Neoplatonists like Plotinus, Porphory and Iamblichus, it is good to realize that this body of work had become lost to Western culture and it was revived by Jewish and Arab scribes who translated the texts into Arabic and Hebrew, which were then translated to Latin and Greek leading to the 'Renaissance.'

OK - I hear you! You are asking, "What have Muslims done for us lately?" In truth, not much!
Islam is now in a period of intellectual stagnancy as Europe was during 'The Dark Ages."

But the haters of Islam need to face some facts. As obviously Islam will not be wiped from the face of the earth, as you wish, what would you next hope to see happen to current day Islamic culture? Hopefully you would answer that you would like to see a great consciousness raising in the Muslim world. The FACT that verses exist in the Qur'an which advocate a society establish around given human rights mandates, that have NOT been abrogated as often thought, gives Muslim a legitimate base for this REFOCUSING on the humanitarian model of Islam.

As a hater of Islam, if you cannot wipe Islam from the face of the earth - is not what the Muslim moderates are attempting to accomplish the next best thing for ALL OF HUMANITY?

Truly, the emotional hate posts here only express psychological immaturity. If you oppose violence, then help us find a viable solution based upon ISLAM'S OWN DICTATES rather then asking Muslims to forfeit their culture and become Western clones.

You can choose to help society reach a more humanitarian age or just boo and hiss from the sidelines. Can we not engage together in a vision that will uplift all concerned? Any reality is preceded by a vision. We may not be where you wish us to be but we are trying with everything we have to bring about a refocusing on the innate humanitarian aspects of Islam.

Humanitarian Qur'anic verses (ayah)?
Please see excerpt from Dr. Mansoor Alam's article below:

So what should be done now? Should we simply close our eyes to the Qur’an and allow these latter-day rulers and Imams to regurgitate the same old sectarian-based Shariah that was developed under dictatorial rule and which tramples on the most basic values of the Qur’an dealing with universal human rights, that among these are: sacrosanct right of the sanctity of human life (5:32); inalienable right of the freedom of choice (2:256, 18:29); right of tolerance for other faiths (22:40) and absolutely no compulsion in faith (2:256); right to conduct state affairs by mutual consultation (3:159, 42:38); universal right of human dignity (17:70); sacrosanct right of equal justice for all (4:58, 4:135, 5:42, 16:90) including enemies (5:8) and no bending of justice for anyone (if the Prophet was not above the law (6:15) then how can anyone else be?); right to hold positions based solely on merit (46:19); right of personal responsibility and accountability (53:38); right of ownership of the fruits of one’s labor and no free ride for anyone (53:39). Are these Qur’an-guaranteed human rights (to all men and women) to be found in our current practice of Islam anywhere not to say of the holiest place in Islam, the birth place of our Prophet (PBUH)?

Who else could be more responsible then for damaging the sacred heart of Islam in the name of Islam, in the name of the Qur’an, in the name of the Prophet (PBUH) than the twin forces of Muslim dictatorship and Muslim priesthood?

The situation has degenerated to such an extent that if one were to mention that above human rights are some of the most sacred in Islam; that our Prophet (PBUH) lived and implemented these rights in society; that an Islamic society is supposed to be constituted on the basis of these core rights at its heart; then surely it will raise many eyebrows and may even invite sarcasm from certain quarters with comments such as: “Have these human rights anything to do with Muslims and Islam?” These reactions are not out of place considering how Muslim countries have been mistreating and even killing their own people in the name of Islam.

The world is judging Islam by our practice of Islam, by observing the so-called practicing Muslims. No wonder we seem to be fulfilling the prophecy of the Qur’an by showing to the world by our own actions that Islam is a failure, that Islam is false (107:1-7)! Our failure to live up to true Islam is being seen as failure of Islam. We may think we are good practicing Muslims and that we will ultimately have the mercy and the blessings of Allah. All this is fine but what about the Qur’an and its emphasis on universal human rights? Is the Qur’an only for reciting to achieve mercy and forgiveness, mostly for the dead? Or, should its human rights also need to be implemented in human society?

As a matter fact these values are under siege in every Muslim country. Can we expect to get anywhere when Muslim societies trample on these rights while putting extraordinary emphasis on rituals? What would be more important to Islam in the eyes of Allah: performing its rituals or implementing its basic human rights?

The Prophet (PBUH) is reported to have said that Muslim Ummah is like a body. When any part of the body is in pain the whole body feels it. That body seems to be in critical condition today. The only way to revive it is to go back to the basic Qur’anic values guaranteeing universal human rights and make them the foundation of Muslim society the way our Prophet (PBUH) did more than 1400 years ago when the rest of the world was living in barbarism and chaos as noted by many historians (e.g., J.H. Denison, Emotion as the Basis of Civilization). This is the real miracle of the Qur’an. This is the true Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) to practice (7:157).

for Ishmail only,

As with many of us, you suffer from the three B's, i.e. you were Bred, Born and Brainwashed in your religion.

In your case, Islam.

And as with many of us, you follow a religion with flawed foundations.

In your case,

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Mohammed was an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers , the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics with most of this misery being funded by the third Axis of Evil aka Iran.

John,

"Note the note": "For Dr. Jackson only"

Sherman A. Jackson wrote:

"On another level, these questions appear to be asking about ideals, while the credibility of the answers given are likely to measured by reality. Imagine a question like, “How does Christianity reconcile the notion of racial and gender equality with the concept of a white, male divinity?” Or “How does Judaism reconcile the concept of “goyim” with Western notions of tolerance and equality?” Then, imagine how honest, learned, conscientious Jews and Christians would feel if the answers they gave were only met by a list of actions carried out by bigoted, unlearned, and or perhaps barely practicing Jews and Christians as proof of what real Christianity and Judaism teaches....In such a context, the very fact of a Muslim response can, if we are not careful, serve to dignify such fears and prejudices as legitimate, with the result that Westerners end up subjecting Islam and Muslim apologetics to meticulous critique, while leaving their own fears, prejudices and misunderstandings unchallenged."

Prof. Jackson has summed up the fallacious nature of many of the repeat posters to these threads--the ones not interested in dialogue, genuine questioning, and discussion. I agree. Instead of focusing on Islam and thus reifying this notion of a single "Islam," perhaps we ought to be asking questions and making points that demand a cross-cultural and comparative response--scholars of Islam and history often disagree--witness some of the material Prof. Jackson confronts in his book "Islam and the Blackamerican." But there is no reason to adopt a hegemonic position that forces a single tradition into apologetics for every post. It would be unreasonable to ask all Christians to answer for the mass slaughter of men and boys at Srebrenica by Serbian Orthodox Christians, or the use of rape as a method of war against tens of thousands of Muslim women in the Bosnia wars. Yet some expect all Muslims to continuous apologize for those unlearned, violent, perhaps barely practicing people who commit violence. Its time "Muslims Speak Out" asked more questions than just those concerning jihad, apostasy and women's rights. In a historical religion of more than 1 billion people worldwide, there are other important topics besides those that far-right Americans use to scare their children with before bedtime.

Nividita wrote:

"None of the Dharmic religions distinguish between "believers" and "non-believers", nor do the adherents of these philosophies believe that they are the "chosen people"."

Christopher responds:

That is simply factually incorrect. Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism all have very distinct ways and public ways of determining who is inside and outside a given group, subgroup, or macrogrouping. And while these traditions are not all missionary, there are definitely universalist apologetics in all of them. From the Tat Khalsa movement in Sikhism to the Svetambara/Digamabara split in Jainism, there are definitely hierarchies, exclusions, and notions of "chosen-ness".

"Why do Muslims pray towards Mecca, when God is everywhere,"

Muslims pray towards Mecca because God tells them to in the Holy Quran. Also it is a symbol of unity. Look at the Old Testament. The Jews also pray towards Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. If you had read the Old Testament in relation to this question, you would already know the answer.

"...or do they worship Muhammad,"

Muslims worship their God - called Allah in Arabic. Muhammad is their prophet and the Messenger of Allah. Messengers and Prophets are NOT worshipped in Islam. That is considered a form of idolatry.

"...even Christians do not pray towards Bethlehem, or towards Jerusalem where the great King was born and died and saved all, even you, and all Muslims as well."

Christians dont follow the practices of Jesus who did pray towards Jerusalem and the Temple Mount as well as the rest of the prophets in the Bible.

Jesus did not die for anyone nor does Jesus save any Muslim. Every person is responsible for his/her sin and will be held accountable on the Day of Judgement before God.

http://www.templemount.org/

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Blessings-of-Prayer.pdf

There is an idiot by name(Concern Chrisitian is now liberated) who post same writing for almost all topic. If you do not want to partipate honestly get out of this page.