All Comments (27)

Jihadist:

I'm a little surprised but not totally that the notion Muhammad never was is upsetting. Does it really matter if the Qur'an has the way of life for absolutely everyone? Isn't the Qur'an the real basis of Islam or is Muhammad's thoughts on the subject, his opinions about how we all must live our lives it?

It's been a while but I vaguely recall Muslims all over the world celebrating 9-11. In SE Asia in particular there was an upsurge of "copy cat" attempts, Philippines in particular had a problem?

No matter. Jews and Christians rely on the words of Moses that he really did talk to God. There was no one there present to witness his conversation with the being in the burning bush. Same is true for both Muhammad and Joseph Smith. Come to think about it, Pat Robertson talks to a supernatural being he also identifies to be God.

So let me ask you. What are the distinguishing characteristics of God/Allah? If you or I happen upon a supernatural being we'll need to know so we can be certain we're not being tricked by a devil? Simple fact is that the Jew/Christian God is not identifiable. Is Allah also so great that He goes beyond a person's capabilities to identify?

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul asks a simple question: was that really God in the burning bush? It's the foundation of those faiths. And MR Hunt, a non prophet, (operating a non profit web site) takes it one step further to notice how much the God Moses met in the sheep pasture resembles the devil Lucifer. Lucifer only wanted to be God, according to sacred scriptures.

In all cases of people claiming to have spoken to God/Allah we're doing two things, taking someone else's word that they are capable of identifying God and that they aren't simply mistaken or, God/Allah forbid, lying about talking to a supernatural being of any kind.

Misidentifying God can have grave consequences. Do grave consequences signal that God has been misidentified? Don't you agree that 9-11 was grave? Was 9-11 a signal from the real God/Allah that is so great no one could possibly identify?

regards and happy Thanksgiving - to Native Americans

E-favorite said: "Looking back at your essay, you did a pretty good job of circumventing the subject of religion, or at least obfuscating on the topic. I think you would have been better off not putting the idea of reconciliation in a religious framework at all. It’s not needed and just confuses matters for anyone who really thinks about it."

E-Favorite - If I recall correctly, you and I have discussed this just a bit before.

Are you disagreeing with the substance of what the author said, or just his means of getting there?

If both religion and other paths get people to the same point on moral or social issues, then who are we to say that one method is inherently more appropriate than another method?

Why can't I take a different path to get to the same place as you? I likely perceive things differently than you. You may focus on things that I would tend to gloss over. To me, this doesn't make the approach that either of us takes "correct." It means rather that we take different approaches.

And as long as those different approaches produce moral, rational, caring people, why worry about the path taken to get there?

Hello BGone,

I don't think the Qu'ran will be the "last sacred scripture standing." The Bible, all the Hindu and Buddhist Texts to name a few, will still be with us.

Buddha lived centuries before the Messenger and is regarded as a real person, not a fictional one. There is a contradiction with the premise by some in stating that people of yore are illiterate, but at the same time stating some people cannot possibly exist just because there were not written records, or records written not up to the exacting standards of current scholarship. All scholars, east, west, agreed that Prophet Muhammad PBUH is a real person.

The Qur'an was initially not recorded on paper but memorised, and subsequently compiled according to the length of the Suras rather than when it came by. For a modern reader used to carefully edited texts prior to publications, the Qur'an is seemingly haphazard in sequence and too repetitive in text.

The Qur'an has many beutiful spiritual passages, but it is not a "romantic" or "idealistic" text. It is, essentially, very hard reminders of truths on human nature, lessons on war and peace, mysteries of creation, treatment of people, community and individual action and responsibility. The running theme seems to be constant reminders on human possibilities, responsibilities and limits.

Consequently and historically, Muslim scholars, knowing full well there can be no peace and harmony without rules, spent time not on theology, but on Islamic jurisprudence - the Shariah for rule of law and administration of justice.

As for terrorists, Osama and his ilks are bleeding heart and bloodied hand "liberals" - liberally reinterpreting Islam to tailor to their political objectives, including suicide bombings and such ridiculous notions of getting 72 virgins in heaven once a suicide bombing is done.

Those drawn into terrorism are less by Islamic spiritualism and principles (they don't really read the Qur'an nor understand the text fully) but angry young men with politicised greivances. In their so-called fight against oppression and for justice, they committed every other sin against humanity, including suicide bombings and murdering of civilians.

As for 9/11, I ask a Palestinian friend why some Palestinians as seen on TV, celebrated when it happened. He stated it was a minority, those who were radicalised in their hatred for Israel and the US, and those who believe the US, having been hit, will now know and understand their suffering of being attacked and have loved ones killed. What is interesting was that he told me that most Palestinians feel that they will be made to pay for what happened on 9/11.

Too many Americans now forgot that those who died on 9/11 were not all Americans. There were nationals from over 50 countries of various faith or non-beliefs, including Malaysians. Yes, there were Malaysians who got killed too, but less than five.

After 9/11, my normally sanguine and laid back Muslim friends around the world became angered and politicised in hearing what emanated from from the likes of Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson and neocons, and of course, by what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq.

By the way, the Malaysian authorities (widely reported in the Malaysian media) did warn the US security agencies about people going to be involved in an impending attack on US soil. Don't ask me why no action was taken until 9/11 happened.

Thank you and best regards

"J"

Jihadist:

Good to hear from you.

Maybe the Qu'ran will be the "last sacred scripture standing." The Bible and in turn the Book of Mormon are both proved hoaxes. Muhammad getting the rules Allah imposes on all mankind from Gabriel sure sounds like Joe Smith doing likewise form Mormoni. Hum.

Slightly different twist to Qur'an. There's a real good chance that Muhammad is a fictional person. The Qur'an, as I understand it to be, was actually concocted by a set of scholars in the low twentyish number. Scholars do tend to think they know how everyone can live in peace and harmony, "if only they would do and not do..." And it's not unheard of for scholars to influence secular leaders causing them to make what scholars think the law of the land. Doesn't the history of Islam region bear that out?

On CNBC this AM they are talking about the big building boom boom in Dubai. I can't help but think about how vulnerable those tall buildings are to, YKW, unmentionable.

Let us hope that there really are Islamic extremists that can be corralled and that the Qur'an does not have "built in suicide" done with the best of intentions by some really bright scholars. I'm sure we can agree that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And I fully expect those who put ink on paper to create the original Qur'an had good, the best even of intentions. There's an expression from the business world that may well apply - this is a non profit corporation, not the way it was planned but how it's turned out - on the road to corporate hell known as bankruptcy. Sub prime loan? Anyone?

Could the Qur'an need a little updating to take into account the round earth? The Bible certainly does. Last sacred scripture standing will be astrological chart. Please don't tell me the position of the stars in the heavens don't control the destiny of man, on a case by case basis.

I think a good test for whether or not an individual is an Islamic extremist is the answer to a simple question - were you happy when you first heard about 9-11-2001? Were you saddened? Did you see that as someone else's problem but a problem none the less? I think I know your answer but you are only one of 1.2 billion people. How about the rest of them?

regards

eye wonder some times if people who want to forgive and people who want to be forgiven realize..... at least in my experience, on both sides of the question... is that you must first agree to what the truth is about the situation. secrets are things that peple are ashamed of most of the time....as long as somthing is a secret and must be hidden from inspection it is somthing thatcan be and will be denied.. i think there are probally time to where the person is forgiven without the guilty party admitting it but it would be dependant upon the freedom of the victum to speek..in my experience there are true misunderstandings on bothsides..the truth doesn't need permission.... it doesn't change..... even if it is not uttered out loud it is usueally known... there are cases where people get it wrong and lynch innaccents 4 the "good" of the powerful and to try to prove thier mastery over proper punishment..... i then think of saul who became paul and his embodyment of the idea that peple can and do change..but in the end the truth will always be the truth.... that which is not true can be an honest mistake..... but a lie stands in the way of forgiveness.....paul was completely honest with who he was and who he became...if you have to lie you can't forgive...it would seem but if you accept the truth it becomes a bond.. a learning experience, somthing you feel at peace with and have pride in and share with another...then you are walking the walk of a disciple.... and mayby can build things instead of blowing things up ... i am a christian but i am not impressed with the christians, the jews or the muslims....somhow i think abraham might have wanted them to build not destroy. silly me i'm just an artist eye most likely got this wrong... make sure you double check my statements 4 truth

"Forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Reminds me of a few historical lessons we never really learned on "tressspasses". Was there a Marshall Plan for countries wrecked by Japan?

Yes, forgive the tresspasses except in cases when we have to fight against the tresspassers when they trespassed and ask us to forgive them while they will not stop tresspassing.

It is a fact. The western colonialists, and western colonisers, expect the colonised to forgive and forget for all their "tresspassers", including on apartheid.

My paternal grandfather fought against the Dutch "tresspasssers" of his country. The Dutch were colonisers and quiite spectacular in the way they assert domination of the lands and control over people. My grandfather died in the fight against the Dutch for Indonesia's independence.

I don't think either Indonesia and Malaysia "tresspassed" against the British and Dutch on a scale both did during colonial times.

It helps that both the Dutch and British no longer seek to interfere in both countries' internal affairs, or to invade and occupy them for any reason.

We have forgiven the Dutch. And the British. And the Portuguese in what is now Indonesia and Malaysia for their "tresspassers".

Strangely, both Dutch and the English look back on their colonial period as the apex of their global power and domination over other peoples and lands - the golden age of their empires with all reasons given to justify their "tresspassings".

One of my favourite is how the British taught China a lesson when the latter "tresspassed" against British traders' rights to pursue opium trade in China.

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BGone

Lucifer wanted to be Allah/God? The Prophet made deals with Gabriel? Lucifer wants to be God and Micheal prevented him?

I'm afraid you're mixing and or confusing again the Bible and the Qur'an on Satan, God and Adam.
That is why Muslims have no idea what you're talking about. Islam may be an Abrahamic faith, but the stories in the Bible - OT and NT do have differences with the Qur'an.

So, don't blame Muslims for ignoring what you said or is very confused by your posts as what
you've stated is really Bible based. God did not come to Moses as "a burning bush" in the Qur'an.

And yes, I do believe faith move mountains. I've seen how we move mountains, form lakes, canals for infrastructure development.

Never mind. Odd to see designated insane by some people be directed insanely confusing remarks to prove that they are insane and one is not.

And BGone, why should believers forgive you for some of your posts? Is there an "atheist exceptionalism" that they are all above errors, making stupid remarks and asking for forgiveness for them?

Thank you and best regards

"J"

Our Father who is the Heavens,Honorable is your name.
Your Kingdom come Your will be done, on earth as it is done in the Heavens.
Give Us this day Lord Jesus Christ our daily bread and Forgive us our trespasses,
as We Forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us away from temptation and deliver us from evil, Heavenly Father.Amen

"Forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Plain and simple God Bless and Peace always. Matthew

Moody:

PS the Bible is a proved hoax, http://www.hoax-buster.org

I understand Muhammad made his deal with the angel Gabriel. Gabriel was an envoy from the supernatural being in the burning bush, the one Moses made his deal with, Allah?

Bad news, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul says Gabriel is on the side of the really bad angel Lucifer. Lucifer wanted to be Allah but Michael raised an army and threw the bum out, all the way to hell, right after Allah created hell. You don't suppose Gabriel got ideas about being Allah too? Did Muhammad mention whether or not Gabriel was on fire? You know, how Moses described God to the Israelites, on fire with the variety of fire found only in hell.

Thought you might like to know. Could help you recover from religion but I doubt you will make it. Once Devil is in a person it's really difficult to get Him out.

Did you know that faith moves mountains - of lies converting them to absolute truths.

Moody:

Iraq - O I L

Bosnia - N A Z I

Israel - the world cannot come to a proper end until the Jews return to their home land. They're there and you want them to leave.

So you don't want the world to come to an end, proper or otherwise? That leaves Nazis and oil to motivate you.

Are you award that oil is destroying the world before it can come to a proper end? Al Goore said so, made a movie that "earned" him truck loads of money and won him the Nobel Prize. Therefore it's absolutely so, the world is coming to an end. Exactly how remains to be seen, proper or improper.

That leaves Nazis. You don't know what a Nazi is? They're really bad people when they're doing it to you and patriots when they're doing it for you. Speaking of doing it for you - were you happy when you first heard about 9-11-2001? You got a dog in that fight? Is his name Allah?

Religion makes people stupid. Islam adds insane. Our guys and dolls are stupid while yours are insane. Do you expect anything even close to forgiveness? Is there the slightest chance you personally will ever recover from religion? Forgive anyone for anything recently?

"In 1976, a Freedom train toured the United States in celebration of our 200th year of Independence. The Train was a rolling museum of history noting our struggles and conflicts through two centuries of upholding a divine inspired form of government with noble and noteworthy people and events in evidence through exhibit or display.......There are two trains in the station today, the other being self propelled by greed. It's a matter of free choice to ride either train." Fully agreed! My us all start practicing forgiveness from right from here. It is time to act NOW!

The road of forgiveness calls for moral spirtual courage, wisdom, and patience. It is possible. Forgiveness can’t be written off as merely a nice idea. What if we actually began to live that way? Try it today!!! But it should be at the end of remourse. Otherwise, i am sorry, you are encoraging for the agressor. cmabid@yahoo.com

You forgive or you don’t the goes on and that too in only one and same direction....every where in this universe. Absolute forgiveness is where you have to end up eventually. But it takes effort. Islam is a religion of peace. Terrorism has no boundaries of religion. Muhammad never preached violence. As a matter of fact it is a system of social justice, or for that matter no justice that has roots with the terrorism. As long as the atrocities against some community do not ends how forgiveness is implemented in its true spirit. Still forgiveness is the one most important thing we all should exercise. But the best it happens after the end of remorse, of whatever kind it may be!!! cmabid@yahoo.com

MODERATOR,

Let the record show that I made a reply to Ben Sutherland, but I was censored in toto.

Thanks.

And I get the message. Probaly whatever postings I make in the following few hours will be my last.

Thanks for the hospitality so far.

Allah says: "Forgive others, don't you want to be forgiven".

I would like to add to your comments.

In Iraq there was an American groomed and raised tyrant Ruler Saddam. But there was no civil war between Iraqi sunni and shia's, even while Saddam was attacking Shia Iran for almost whole decade to please his master USA before American destruction and accupation of Iraq. It is evil Americans gift to Iraqis. Fueling the hatred with all MEANS between muslims and keeping the fuel and paying back in form of destruction.

Israel is an oppressive occupying force supported by its dady USA. Daily killing stone throwing infant enemies becoming sucide teenagers hopeless from life , grown up before time through their daily brutal reality of life. Media is filled with Israely bloody trail and non compliance to any resolution. Some how still Israel is sweet hearts of the civilized west. Question is are they really Civilized?

Bosnia is an other example of so called civilized race in form of only Muslim ethenic cleansing.

Your present and history only goes in one direction....every where in the world. Even with your own selves....self destructive!!!

Mark W.:

You took a lot of words to say they're trying to put square peg into round hole. The righteous use the heads of those who do not accept J C as their savior attempting to pound the darn thing in because it just doesn't fit. We can pretend it fits and get all the benefits anyhow.

Just what are the benefits of having square peg in round hole? Anyhow?

Former Attorney General Ashcroft has been known to say that J.C. was the greatest civil rights leader of all time. I can't speak for Ashcroft but it seems that an idea of equality was born through J.C. in that both Jew and Gentile had equal rights in the Kingdom of Heaven.

However, in my mind, this concept was not put into practice. There was an exodus of employees at civil rights divisions within the D.O.J and FBI. Ashcroft seemed to be obsessed with the orginal sin ordering nude public statutes to be covered up. Even Rice jumped onboard, removing a popular magazine from coffee kiosks at State Department. And yet, a torture modality was adopted to expose captors to nudity exploiting their religious beliefs for possible intelligence aquisition.

The concept of torture itself has a history of punishment for sin or unbelief by religious bodies. Subjects not confessing Christ as their Savior or not confessing to sins manufactured by inquisitions resulted in such things such as boiling alive the prosecuted in tar. Where is forgiveness or mercy for the accused or unbelievers in such systems and can one be forced into believing, I doubt it.

There is evidence that an attitude underminding human rights was adopted akin to going below the law to uphold the law. In the end, the law is always the law and it will be upheld or "As ye sew, so shall ye reap".

For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction in the Universe such as shock and awing Baghdad. One could say that these are natural orders of the Creator's universe, massive chaos and then through gravity, order and balance. That order may eventually produce unity as the planets of our own solar system revolve around the Sun in a unified order of a planetary system.

Judeo-Christians practicing Christianity underground in the first century after Christ had a method of conversion recorded through the Didache. Church mentored neophytes studying the ways of a good man and a bad man. Once a person having been witnessed as completing a transformation was given the Right of Baptism which was an old Jewish custom advocated by John the Baptist and continuing through J.C.

A version of the Lord's prayer is contained within those writings of these early Christians forced to practice their religious beliefs underground in fear of prosecution:

"... and forgive us our debt (at the final judgement) as we likewise (now) forgive our debtors..."*

In 1976, a Freedom train toured the United States in celebration of our 200th year of Independence. The Train was a rolling museum of history noting our struggles and conflicts through two centuries of upholding a divine inspired form of government with noble and noteworthy people and events in evidence through exhibit or display.

There are two trains in the station today, the other being self propelled by greed. It's a matter of free choice to ride either train. I think I will stay onboard that Centrist Train. It proves to be the most safest of choices, so far avoiding derailment.

* from "The Didache" translated by Aaron Milavec

Peace and silence.

Peace and silence
in the soul of
the present ; a bird,
leaving the country,
arrives near the
care now reflecting
your feeling and then,
in the meantime,
that beautiful flow
seems a light
in the heart of the
wisdom.

Drew Knox:

I doubt you will get an answer from the reverend so I'll try to help you, if I can.

There is the case of senator Kerry during his run for president and the forgiving bishop that,, ah,, ah never mind.

Now one rotten apple doesn't spoil the whole barrel.

In the problems that face Palestine and Israel, Northern Ireland and others that you mentioned there are current issues of hostility and the need to combat injustices. One cannot gain reconcilliation in the midst of war. Only at the end of the war can reconcilliation play a part. In South Africa the end of issues of apartheid at least with the election of a new government and discontinuation of certain practices could make way for reconcilliation. However even with the best efforts of Desmond Tutu, who is really to be commended most hightly, still the letting off of offenders has not helped heal the wounds nor pave the way of the offenders becoming healed. So really reconcilliation can only really come about when the two parties have ceased hostilities and seek to accommodate each other to the satisfaction of both.
Regards Anna Victoria.

Reverend Lloyd, I like your example of forgiveness with the Amish of Nickel Mines, PA. That is truly extraordinary. Do you have an example of where a Catholic diocese has done something similar?

Ben Sutherland: are you talking about me when you refer to a person living a "tortured, unhappy life"?

That's pretty strong. Why would you say something like that based on nothing but a response to an essay? It comes across as if you’re trying to annihilate the credibility of people who simply disagree with you.

Rest assured, my life is happy and untortured, and luckily has been most of the time, both in my experience as a believer and as an atheist.

You go on to use negative, depressive terms, such as “sad,” “suffering,” “funny, tragic little species” “ridiculous” “inflict” and “misery.” This doesn’t describe me, nor does it reflect what I said above. What does it describe?

Ben Sutherland:

Forgiveness, a word often heard and more often slurred. The only thing that compares to the cry for Scot Peterson's blood or that of president Clinton is the great outpouring of sympathy for Princess Dianna.

Lip service is not forgiveness. It does make some folks look better than others.

The other three comments, here, Dean Lloyd, are three of the strangest rationalizations that I have ever read for retribution and vengeance in my very short life.

You must wonder, as I do, why anyone would choose to live such a tortured, unhappy life that a life that does not take forgiveness seriously must be. I am much more sad for those who choose to hold onto their suffering than I think anyone else. Because it is the by far majority of our funny, tragic little species. And to anyone who knows better, it is both so sad and ridiculous, all at once, how much suffering they and all of us inflict on ourselves and on another holding onto all of that misery.

Of the many, many foolish choices that people make, the failure to forgive is perhaps the most foolish of all. Thank you for reaffirming its value in our lives amidst a time when we might pretend otherwise.

Ben Sutherland
http://benfrankln.blogspot.com/

Thank you. It is so refreshing to read this very common sense message in a major newspaper, these days.

Ben Sutherland
http://benfrankln.blogspot.com/

It was certainly very nice of the Amish people to be kind to the shooter's widow. However, she had never harmed them in the first place; her husband had, without her knowledge or approval. To punish her would have been treating her as a scapegoat. Oddly enough, this behavior is condoned in the old testament (original sin) and glorified in new testament, when God, Jesus' father, the same one who let Adam and Eve eat the apple, then had his human son crucified to atone for our sins.

Now, Dean Lloyd, I bet you think the Garden of Eden story is a metaphor. What about the crucifixion and resurrection? Looking back at your essay, you did a pretty good job of circumventing the subject of religion, or at least obfuscating on the topic. I think you would have been better off not putting the idea of reconciliation in a religious framework at all. It’s not needed and just confuses matters for anyone who really thinks about it.

Your fist paragraph mentions Yugoslavia and the Sunni/Shia problems without going into details, but you make the general statement : " We are a flawed, fearful, violent species, and without learning to release one another from the prison of a vengeful past we will never experience a more harmonious world".

I'll address both the general and the specific to refine, not repudiate the idea of forgiveness. What I repudiate is the idea of the most satanic cynicism {Using might-is-right logic, -- 'Reality? What reality? We are an empire now; we create our own reality!' --, to commit the worse acts of imperialist aggression and crimes against humanity, and then cynically evoke Christian forgiveness to escape charges of war crimes; 'divide-and-rule tactics; pre-emptive stikes; malicious propaganda; exploitation of the weakest link in the social group-cohesion dynamic to sow discord and then pretend, humanitarian- imperialist=fashion, to bring purportedly civilizational values to societies in distress].

Specifically, Yugoslavia : (i) Ibrahim Rugova was universally -- except for the Serbs -- recognised as 'the Gandhi of Yugoslavia'[too soft, in fact, for my taste]; he received very lukewarm support except from Muslim countries, and the Pope cancelled a proposed trip to Bosnia for fear of his precious life!; only when Slobodan Milosevic had taken him captive did the Pope 'intervene' -- the first act of 'humanitarian imperialism' before the term found its way into common usage!--so that he be set free and the pope can bask in all the glory of Christian goodness! Poor Ibrahim played the game to the end and kissed the Pope's hand in front of cameras while his daughter gave the cameras a very knowing smile that I shall always be able to see vividly by closing my eyes every time the term 'humanitarian imperialism' is uttered. Mladic and Karadzic walk free up to this day. The Muslims of Kosovo and of Bosnia are supposed to forgive!

Iraq Sunni-Shia divide. Rewind to the 1979 Iranain Revolution, which I lived in the flesh. Before it became clear that the Shah was losing his grip, Khomieini was demonized in the Western media (except for The Guardian of UK, I shall never forget!) as an obscurantist Muslim sell-out to the Sunni Wahabis of Saudi Arabia and therefore was a threat to the great Persian nation of Darius and of Cyrus the Great. In any case, the Western media told us, the Shia had been marginalised by the Sunnis and therefore Khomeini's talk of the Umma being one, indivisisble, was anathema to the proud Shias of Iran. Then, the Shah was ousted, and it became time for the charitable Christian West to play up the Arabs against the fundamentalist, heretical Shias. That was how Rumsfeld visited one Saddam Hussein, became his great buddy, gave him the second-rate weapons with which he could wage a long, 8-year, 2-million victim war of attrition against fellow-Muslim country Iran (but of, course, no first rate weapons that he might eventually be able to use in case, later, in 1991, it might become necessary to turn against Saddam and attack his country!). That was also how Rumsfeld gave nerve gas to Saddam to wipe out the Kurds in Halabja.

Enough of two specifics.

Now, the general thesis. No, Sir! The human specie is not "flawed, fearful, [and] violent ..., [so that] without learning to release one another from the prison of a vengeful past we will never experience a more harmonious world".

On the contrary, the evolutionary psychologists who have done all the fundamental research and written such seemingly antithetical science populariser works as "The Selfish Gene" and "Unto Others -- The Unselfish Gene", are agreed that cooperation is written in our genes, but adaptation for survival (which may involve {occasionally violent and lethal} competition at the individual and sometimes even at the group level) is necessary and requires a very subtle counterbalacing of cooperation and competition and a more complex construct of 'coopetition' than 'forgiveness' to justify illegitimate prior aggreession.

The West should avoid blindly pushing this last-mentioned strategy if it wants to achieve an outcome better than the decline of empire that Paul Kennedy announced decades ago and that all lucid analysts, including Niall Ferguson, argue is playing itself out currently in fast-forward mode.

Dean:

You ask,"How can we not forgive our enemies?" Real easy, just read the Bible, "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."

Oh no! {"As Martin Luther King, Jr. put it, “Those who live by ‘an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth’ will one day become a blind and toothless generation.”}

Oops!

How can we explain that? http://www.hoax-buster.org says the Bible is a 'proved' literary hoax. Maybe it's those who rely on hoaxes that are the problem? Shouldn't we respect our neighbor's rights and kinda hold our love in reserve for God?

You don't believe the Bible is a hoax? http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul is for those who don't believe the Bible is bogus. And, it explains all the trouble and strife among those who claim they "love their enemies" at the same time.

So far no one has expressed any possible rebut to the notion that the supernatural being in the burning bush, you know, the one Moses made the deal with to beat the murder rap and become the most important person that ever lived, pouring ice water on the notion "all men are created equal" that supernatural being was not God at all but the biggest Devil that ever was, he himself Lucifer. Being the "official" church at the nations capital in this land where church and state are constitutionally separated, perhaps you have some evidence that was God there in the burning bush?

So what will it be? The Bible is a hoax or the word of Devil? Either one explains the great disconnect between love thy neighbor, enemies or anyone other than self and reality.

And, failing to respect, not love our neighbors is rapidly leading the country to hell here and now, no waiting to die to go there. I can't help but notice how those who desperately clutch their Bibles and claim to be moral want to send recent immigrants back to where they came from. That has created the housing depression that is leading to massive financial collapse that leads to Godless China becoming the new leader of the world. Congratulations to all of great faith in the supernatural being Pat Robertson talks(ed) to so we'll know what to do and especially who to vote into office.

A hearty well done!!