All Comments (97)

salman's documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhIkCH4sScM

this guy's risked his life for peace...

get some manners lib, and ill consider answering.
as it is- i am not answerable to you in any way- especially when you are so bluntly confrontational without even a by your leave.

mercy, i havent been here for a month and the first thing you react to is another nonsensical demand.

where do you get this stuff?

somehow you labor under the misapprehension that i have some power over time and space for my opinion to have any impact whatsoever on the religious freedoms of the entire globe.

get some manners- rephrase in a reasonable fashion.

im happy to respond then.

i applaud the authors efforts to extend the hand of friendship to people of other faiths and to create unity and good will in a public forum.

its certainly more than what most of us do.

Victoria,

Simply answer the following question. Do you support global freedom of religion??

i think its always been the artists and musicians in the world who have tried to establish harmony and accord out of chaos and discord.
one of my most delightful discoveries in my research into islam was reading the quran where it states that one must deeply investigate and study it, and if one finds it to be truth- accept it. i did and i do.

Separation if mosque and state?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070605/SCHOOLS/706050368

A Hermit,

I basically point out the problems with the foundations/links to heaven of contemporary religions. Deeds attributed to said religions are typically 24/7 front page news so there is no need to.

I assume you promote global freedom of religion?

"The major question for both musicians and for all artists in general: Do they promote global freedom of religion??????"

This one obviously does, so wouldn't it be a novel idea to talk about that instead posting long non-sequitor comments about other people's bad deeds and denouncing their faith as evil? Are you promoting freedom of religion when you do that?

Just a thought...

The major question for both musicians and for all artists in general: Do they promote global freedom of religion??????

WHAT THE HECK DID THIS GUY DO?

Here's what he did on May 1st:

"Common Chords," a celebration of Muslim and
Jewish music, will be presented at Queens College on Tuesday, May 1 from 4:30 to 6:30 pm in LeFrak Concert Hall. Featuring SALMAN AHMAD of Junoon, South Asia's most popular rock band, and Yale Strom, the world's leading Klezmer artist, the concert is the final event in a semester-long series on bridging the cultural divide between Muslims and Jews. It is part of "The Middle East and America: Clash of Civilizations or Meeting of the Minds," Queens College History Professor Mark Rosenblum's nationally acclaimed project to promote understanding and informed discussion about the Middle East conflict on campus, in high schools, and in the larger community. This project is an initiative of the Michael Harrington Center at Queens College and the Taft Institute.

The evening will also include "Shared Traditions," an on-screen photographic
essay on the common aspects of Islam and Judaism. This will be presented by Gul Rukh Rahman and Ari Alexander, co-directors of the international online organization Children of Abraham. Begun in 2004 by Alexander, an American
Jewish man, and Maria Ali-Adib, a Syrian Muslim woman, the organization strives for a deeper understanding between the two faiths through a
photographic exploration of similarities in their rituals and customs.

Queens College alumnus Mohammad Salman Hamdani will also be honored at the Common Chords event. A Pakistani Muslim American who died saving lives on September 11, 2001, Hamdani was at first unfairly suspected of abetting the
attack on the World Trade Center. His mother, Talat Hamdani, will be presented with an inscribed plaque commemorating her son's heroism. A reception featuring Halal and Kosher cuisine will close the evening.

This event, which is free and open to the public,

Frank, from now on I will simply ignore you! YOU STINK! Du bist ein ganz bloedes Rindvieh! Schaeme Dich!!!

Is it a religion just because someone says it is?
would anyone deny that the promotion of any group or organization, even if it calls itself a religion, or a political party, is vile and offensive - if the stated goals of that group consists of hating any specific group or religion,
to kidnap them,
torture them,
hold them for ransom,
cut off body parts,
rape them,
put them into slavery,
murder them if they do not convert to become a member of this group or club and
murder them if they dont want to stay in the club.
you see the people they hate are jews, muslimss, hindus, anynone not part of their group. so in a way they are like nazi, except this group hats many more people than the nazis ever hated.

can you guess who this group is? here is a hint.

here is what a leading Christian preacher recently wrote:

"If Christian people work together, they can succeed during this decade in winning back control of the institutions that have been taken from them over the past 70 years. Expect confrontations that will be not only unpleasant but at times physically bloody.... This decade will not be for the faint of heart, but the resolute. Institutions will be plunged into wrenching change. We will be living through one of the most tumultuous periods of human history. When it is over, I am convinced God's people will emerge victorious." Pat Robertson

or this:

"If there is found among you, within any of your gates which the Lord your God gives you, a man or a woman who has been wicked in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing His covenant, who has gone and served other gods and worshipped them, either the sun or moon or any of the hosts of heaven which I have not commanded you, and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination has been committed in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has committed that wicked thing, and stone to death that man or woman with stones." (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:13)

The following is just a fraction of the repulsive behavior the Christians have been involved with over the centuries. Have a look on other Internet sites for the details of how they tortured their victims during the inquisition or a description of a witch burning (or just leave it to your imagination)...

The early years: As soon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire pagan priests were killed. Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain and their temples destroyed. Participation in pagan services were punishable by death in 356 (and this included children).

Murdering intellectuals: Hypatia, a famous female philosopher was torn to pieces by a hysterical Christian mob using glass fragments in a church in 415. In 1538 a university professor, B. Hubmaier, was burned at the stake in Vienna.

The Crusades: During the First (1096) and Second (1147) Crusade thousands of Jews were slaughtered. During the Third Crusade (1189-1190) English Jewish communities were sacked. In 1099, Jerusalem was conquered at the cost of more than 60,000 men, women, and children. In the words of one witness: "there was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude." The total number of victims of the Crusades is likely to be around 20 million. During the Crusades against Hussites in the 15th century, thousands were slain.

Exterminating Jews: In the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned and Jews killed by Christians. In 1348 about 20,000 Jews in Basel were burned by Christians, the next year all the Jews in hundreds of towns were killed (mostly burned). In Poland in 1648, during the Chmielnitzki massacres, 200,000 Jews were slain. Not only did the Nazis (lead by a Christian) exterminate millions of Jews but other Christians set up death camps, independently of the Nazis, and murdered about half a million victims of various backgrounds. They were even efficient enough to have a camp specifically for children.

The slaughter of Jews by Christians is particularly repulsive. I thought they both believed in the same god. One good thing about Christians is they don't have favourites - they'll torture and murder anyone or any group if it will help them gain or maintain power.

The Spanish Inquisition: In 1568 the Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in the Netherlands. Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada, a former Dominican friar, was responsible for over 10,000.

Witch Hunting: In the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand witches (about 80% female) were burned at the stake or hanged. During the 16th century accusations of witchcraft were widespread: English Catholics were murdered by Protestants (30,000 were burned at the stake), in Germany 100,000 witches were killed. Similar behavior occurred in other Christian countries.

Christian Wars: In the 17th century, Catholics sacked the city of Magdeburg killing about 30,000 Protestants. In one single church fifty women were found beheaded, and infants were still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers. During the 30 Years' War, involving Catholics and Protestants at least 40% of population was decimated.

And its still happening: A court in Rwanda has sentenced two Roman Catholic priests to death for their role in the genocide of 1994, in which up to a million Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed. Different sections of the Rwandan church have been widely accused of playing an active role in the genocide of 1994.

can anyone guess the name of this terrorist organization?

--------------

See Frank; anyone can play this stupid cut and paste game of yours. Now please shut up so the grown ups can have a conversation.

And the "blog hog" awards for yesterday go to Frank, Paganplace and Gaby.

Frank:

"you saw it as jobs germans would not do and i saw reality - germany needed people to fill jobs that expansion created. it was not that germany had a high unemployment and just brought in others to do jobs they would not do. you looked at it through a childs eyes - thats all. children frequently get it wrong."

YOUR ARE A TWIT!

I do know whereof I speak. Once, just once listen!

When I was a childm the Italians came, when I was a teenager, the Jugoslavians came, when I was an adult the Turks came.

Can't you ever just listen for a change? Do you always have to be sooooo abnoxious?

I didn't leave Germany until I was 27 years old.

You call that a child?

Oh, and, Frank. You may call yourself what-you-named-yourself all you want, but I'll thank you not to put 'Pagan' in your screen name.

That's a lie, apart from the obvious attempt to slur. And you wouldn't want to deal with what Pagans expect you get of such things.

Umm, is there a rich person here?

"Bono",

Please verify that you are indeed Bono of the U2. That might be tough to do on a blog commentary open to all net users with no ID required. For all we know, you might be Salman's brother or a member of some Islamic propaganda group."

It appears, Anonymous, that someone was quoting a letter from Bono that appeared on the singer's website, there's no one here on WaPo claiming to be Bono. :)

"pagan
i dont attack you - i insult you and there is a difference.
i dont by your pagan, witch, warlock, lady, mother, crap, thats all."

I didn't ask you to.

You, however, insistently fail to understand what I'm talking about, you simply decided, 'I don't like this answer of Pagan's, so I'll make up my own and say *that's* what she believes so I can be the more insulting.'

"but you do the same with christians.

I wouldn't say so. Actually, I'm pretty darn well educated on what Christians believe, in the many variations. And I try not to be mere'y insulting where I disagree.

"but you do appear to fall into the category of the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

You appear to understand nothing else but a) enemies. and b) Black and white, all-or-nothing, for-me-or-against me.

In a complex situation such as world religions, *that* is what's crap.

"as you feel christians are your enemy - throwing holy warer and bibles one and all - then the enemy of christians is your friend - islam."

Actually, there's a great deal more to it than that, Frank, (someone else raised that as an example of Christian behavior.)

I told you I wasn't going to relate some of my own stories in that regard. But Christianity is not my enemy. (Though some Christians will insist on telling you different in order to continue certain disgraceful and oppressive behavior toward us, )

Islam's not a particular friend of mine, either. I do see it as an oppressive system that reveres words which can in fact be used to legitimize or even demand oppression of others.

'Muslims' are not my enemy, either.

"and you are wrong when you say that i dont listen to what you say. well maybe you are right - i cant listen to the typed word."

That's a functional problem with your words, here, Frank, they aren't based in communication, ...they're simply based in your idea of 'sides and enemies.'

When people become blind to others' humanity, and the complexity of some of these situations, they stop being critical of their own actions, (and their own 'side's' actions) ..and see only what leads to war and oppression.

Believe me, oppression is an 'enemy' of mine, if I truly have one. Whatever 'skin' it wears.

"but i do read what you write, its that i dont agree with you. many people like you make that mistake. they so believe that their opinion is so strong that if someone does not agree with them it must be because they did not actually read it."

Actually, Frank, the problem would seem to be you antiprocess anything said that doesn't fit your all-or-nothing-friends-and-enemies worldview, and think it's OK to say, 'I don't agree with what they say about themselves, so I may as well say they're about something else I made up.'

You either have poor reading comprehension or severe intellectual dishonesty because of this.

"well i read everything. and i usually go paragraph by paragraph to refute what you write -"

You can't *refute* what you refuse to understand cause you simply call it 'crap.'

When you characterize what you should therefore have read over and over again, your lack of comprehension upon which you base your insults and defamations shows.

"so i do read your comments - but i think your hate for christians clouds your vision about your new best buddies - allah and moho the child rapist."

For instance, your insistence that I 'hate Christians' and that somehow 'Mohammed is my buddy.'

Your cut and paste spam and ranting based on false premises has become something *not* read anymore, cause it's repetetive, genegenerally off-topic, and generally attacking those who seek to *lessen the oppression endemic to Islamic countries and systems.

You're the one, I think, whose vision is dangerously-clouded: declaring someone an enemy and then refusing to *see* them is always an equation for stupidity and horror.

I thought, as I said before, that something had to be done about the Taliban *before* 9/11.

You always ignore things like that.

I say, we cannot counter extremism by becoming hateful extremists ourselves. That's kind of what the *terrorists* want.

For us to stop thinking.

Cause all they *have* is war and oppression for a world. It's traumatized behavior that tries to resolve itself by retraumatizing itself and hoping it'll come out better next time... inherently self-destructive and fearful.

We need to give them something else.

Part of the problem, Frank, is that you aren't seeing the whole world picture, here. It may be comfy and easy for you to draw up sides, as though we would even have *time* to 'make oppressive Islam go away, to be replaced by our own control of 'for us or against us,'

There stands to be a lot of death and war and privation and displacement of people if we don't all get together and manage things well... Under stress, these oppressions will tend to get worse, unless something better.. a better hope, is offered.

You think that people who talk like you aren't being geared up in an abstract way to 'purge atheists and Pagans and Muslims' because Christianity is so fixated on having 'enemies?'

By polarizing so, you only put the liberals and moderates and reformers (and strong women) in the Islamic world in a more-dangerous position, because the radicals and oppressors there, well, they see the world in that 'enemies' way, too.

"Bono",

Please verify that you are indeed Bono of the U2. That might be tough to do on a blog commentary open to all net users with no ID required. For all we know, you might be Salman's brother or a member of some Islamic propaganda group.

Letter from U2's Bono to Junoon's Salman!



Salman,

Just wanted to write you a quick note to say how much we here in the rest of the musical world appreciate what you are doing in your own region for peace. Peace is not an abstract ideal; it’s a concrete thing, brought about by many compromises. Compromise is a word we should cherish. We should embody it, sing it, run it up the flagpoles, chase down the road after it. It’s a psychological state as important as statehood itself. You’re a great man.

Your fan,
Bono

source: www.junoon.com

Frank, what exactly makes you an expert on the Germans or their economy in the 60's?

And yes, I will condemn all Nazis and KKK's for their atrocities, but not their faith.

Frank, for most people when you insult and ridicule them, you attack them.

Jeez Louise, don't you know when enough is enough?

Jack, I differ with your statement. It should say, for an Islamic Extremist......

I grew up in Germany. In the early sixties, the economy started booming. Soon Germany invited guest workers from poorer nations around her to fill jobs Germans no longer wanted to do.

Many came from Turkey, a decidedly Muslim country. Yes, their lifestyle was different from mainstream Germany, but none desired to die, either in suicide death or otherwise.

I think many Americans do not understand that Islam is not only a religion, but a lifestyle, a pretty poor lifestyle in many cases. You can not condemn entire mainstream Islamic countries for the acts of a few. I also do not belief the killing is being done in the name of Islam, but rather in the name of "I am stronger and I will show you! You WILL believe as I do or you die!"

That is really the crux of the matter. There are oppressors and there are the oppressed. In most cases, it has more to do with powerstruggle than ideology!

While I condemn Islamic extremists, I will not condemn all Muslim for their faith.

paganplace:

Thanks for the Reuters link. Its lead story backs up my earlier post.

- Suicide bombers attacked foreign troops in central and southern Afghanistan on Friday, killing five children and a Dutch soldier in a day of renewed bloodshed.

Four adult civilians were also killed and seven wounded, local police chief Mohammad Qasim added.

For an Islamist -death is desired and sought.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKLR9196620070615

And, Frank, maybe you still just can't get my initial point that you've been attacking me for: answering hate for hate, blindly attacking all Muslims or anything they say, ...this does not *help.*

Obviously 'Islam' doesn't have a leg to stand on as 'Moral high ground' goes, ...but neither does Christianity.

America's pretty much lost that, now, too, thanks to people getting suckered into their baser instincts and conservative 'faith-based' policies.

I'm about done with that, too. Frank's refusal to listen to what I say, so he can say I think something I don't, has just been constant, abusive language, not only toward Muslims, but my own religion, which frankly, he knows nothing about, preferring his own prejudices to the reality.

Frankly, he misconstrues my statements, and has a severe problem either with reading comprehension, intellectual honesty, or both.

You can't solve the problems of extremism by becoming extremist, yourself. Clearly, the man would seem to have chosen a side in an unproductive way:

Here's an article on the subject, which just happens to have come up:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-06-13T224549Z_01_N13366859_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-USA-EXTREMISM.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage2

Hopefully, those tempted to such views as Frank espouses, which offer no solutions, only more hatred and polarization, will at least have seen demonstrated that these are the views of an Internet troll, not someone seriously concerned for helping the world.

"why cant you tell me the difference between a moderate or progressive islamic and a run of the mill islamic?"

Frank, you moron, look at the top of this page. There is a moderate Muslim.

Has it ever occured to you to try and engage with someone like him instead of getting all hysterical about the terrorists and immediately launching into this ridiculous display of link-posting? You think no one else is aware of how bad the Taliban and Al Qaeda are?

The problem here is that you cannot separate your legitimate fear of the extremists from the rather innocuous post of Salman Ahmed; you didn't try to find out anything about him or what else he might believe, you just jumped right into full terror mode. If you really want to know the difference between a progressive Muslim and your Bogeyman version try talking to one instead of shutting down the boards with your cut and paste nonsense.

You're a pathetic little coward, really, so paralyzed by your fear you can't see the person in front of you. I pity you, Frank, I truly do.

The Killings of Non-Muslims is Legitimate? Thats yesterday's news..

With the pandemic of Muslim- on-Muslim slaughter in Darfur, Iraq, Pakistan, Afganistan, Gaza and a dozen other hot spots: it appears the thing that truly incites an Islamist isn't Muslim suffering (which they are more than willing to inflict themselves), but the relatively tiny fraction of violence that jihadi propagandists and their western apologists can lay at the feet of Jews and Christians.

Muslim blood apparently comes very, very cheap --but only when it's drawn by other Muslims.

OK, I'm going to stop feeding the troll now; so long Frank; I hope your hatred keeps you warm at night.

Frank, you pinhead, what do any of those links have to do with the author of this post or what he said? No one here is defending the extremists.

I could produce long lists of historical (and recent) Christian atrocities, Biblical passages mandating death to unbelievers, advocating the oppression of women and sanctioning slavery and speeches and sermons by everyone from Martin Luther to Torquemada to Ian Paisley or Fred Phelps calling for violence against the Jews, Witches, Muslims, unbelievers and the "wrong" sort of Christians. So what? The Christians I meet here and in my daily life generally don't embrace such attitudes, and likewise neither do the Muslims I meet.

Frank,

I didn't say I agreed with you. But, if you were a little less hostile and more open to dialogue, I might actually detract my troll statement.

Paganplace is not a he, it's a she, and a very well spoken she. She has explained to you, in detail, many times why wiccans can not form a circle to chant the evil away. Every action has a reaction and as a wiccan you can not force others into something they are not. Not can they chant global warming away. They are not allowed to mess with nature. How do you know, if they did your bidding, that something much more terrible than global warning is to happen.

So, you old curmudgeon, try to bite you tongue every now and then!

Peace

You have a double standard, Frank and CCNL; you insist that all Muslims must answer for the crimes of the extremists, but you make no such demand on Christians. You insist that the Koran must be read literally (and then cherry-pick isolated quotes and apply your own interpretation to them) but resort to parsing, arguments about context, metaphor and mythology to excuse similar (and worse) passages in the Bible.

I could google my way through sites like this one: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/2b62a1f5e94cbbbd
and cut and paste long lists of examples of Christian violence and violent Biblical scriptures, too. Would such a pointless exersize convince you that all Christians embrace the teachings of Fred Phelps or Ian Paisley? Of course not. So why do you think your moronic cut and paste comments prove all Muslims embrace the most radical interpretations of Islam? Or that anyone outside of your own fevered imagination embraces the version of Islam you have invented for your Bogeyman?

My advice to you is to save your outrage for the real extremists (sadly there are enough of them out there, and not just the Islamic variety) and when you encounter a peaceful, moderate, rational Muslim, like the author of this post, take them at their word instead of accusing them of being like the terrorists. You'll look less like an ignorant extremist yourself that way...

Regards

A Hermit

Frank,

"SO IM A BAD GUY FOR POINTOUT WHAT ISLAM SAYS AND WHAT ISLAM DOES AND WHAT ISLAM DEMANDS - and islam is allowed to lie to anyone to pretend they dont say and do what they say and do."

You are the bad guy not because you point out, but because you are a ranting, raving troll who belittles everyone and everything you don't agree with.

GARYD,

Apparently you have not read any of the books written by the three On Faith NT scholars/professors. "Googlizing"/"Gabrielizing" has its limits. And you are a professor of what??

They cleansed nothing and got little right in their zeal to rid themselves of scripture they found personally objectionable they merely demostrated a lack of understanding and a refusal to accept the word of God for what it is.

I just hope God brings Mr Crossan to repentance before he dies for the absolute worst parts of Hell are reserved for those that put lies in the mouth of God.

Again and again, it is all about the Book of Death aka koran. Remove the milataristic and anti-female passages and add support for global freedom of religion. Problem solved!!!!

NT scholars like the On Faith panelists, Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen have cleansed the NT.

And the OT is basically on the myth pile.

Wouldn't hurt to preface your links or ...pick a name, Anonymous, if you want your finger pulled. :)

Paganplace:

Learn more about Islam:

http://www.radioislam.org/islamj/english/islam.htm

My point exactly, Frank.

Exactly what do you think I've been duped *into?*

Failure to have my life and psyche revolve around hating Muslims or in fact any other non-Christian ...or person who might have some *perspective* on the issues of how a global community might better live together?

As I've said repeatedly, you call me a 'fraud' based on... your idea that you don't think I can do what you *say* I think I can do.

To wit, what's in your head.

"but what difference would it make?"

That, Frank, ('whichever' Frank I'm talking to now,) has *always been the question i've been asking you.

You seem to have a fundamental inability to distinguish between systems, groups, peoples, and individuals. Or to process any new information in a way that doesn't plug directly into your idea of 'Ally/Enemy.'

It seems beyond your comprehension that someone could say, 'I refuse to hate these people,' while also saying, 'I'll resist the oppressions of this system if and to the extent it happens to come to be my *business.*

As an American, I see little difference between the Islam you hate so blindly, and the Christian extremism and politics you won't see questioned, even to the extent, apparently, that you must call Pagans 'Islamics' or all the other things you say, because we refuse to play that game that way.

It's your inability to hear any different, Frank, that would seem to be the difficulty, whoever's wearing the name. Maybe the real world is too chaotic and uncertain for you, and you expend a great deal of mental energy trying to make it simple.

Same character.

I ask *you.*

What difference does it make?

Gaby, You are openminded and it is good to see things in a different manner. America has long been home to Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvzGVIEJKk

Islam in America:

1178 A Chinese document known as the Sung Document records the voyage of Muslim sailors to a land known as Mu-Lan-pi (America).

1310 Abu Bakri (Abu Bakar), a Muslim king of the Malian Empire, spearheads a series of sea voyages to the New World.

1312 Mandinga, African Muslims, from Mali and other parts of West Africa arrive in the Gulf of Mexico for exploration of America's interior using the Mississippi River as their access rout.

1527 A Muslim from Morocco by the name of Estevanico of Azamor lands in Florida with the expedition of Panfilo de Narveaz and remains in America to become the first of three Americans to cross the continent in 1539.

1530 More than 30% of the estimated 10 million African slaves, uprooted from the areas of Fulas, "Fula Jallon", "Fula Toro", and "Massina" as well as other areas of "West Africa" governed from their capital "Timbuktu", that arrived in America during the slave trade of that time and sent to Mexico, Cuba, and South America were Muslims, they and became part of the backbone of the American economy of that period.

If you studied history, you know this.

frank: what you makes you the arbiter of what a "true muslim" must believe? Isn't that just a little arrogant on your part?

Why do assume that "true muslims" must accept the most radical examples of Islamic thought? Should we apply the same standard to Christians and argue that anyone who doesn't embrace the vile opinions of Fred Phelps or celebrate the bloodiest passages in the Bible as literal truths isn't a "true Christian?"

You know I could do a Google search and post long lists of historical and recent Christian atrocities (Rwanda was "the most Christian Nation in Africa", the Jasenovic concentration camp was run by Catholic monks, the Tripura terrorists are affiliated with the Baptist Church...etc. etc.) Would you take that as a legitimate basis for declaring all Christians to be practitioners of a vile, violent and evil cult?

You're a hypocrite, a liar and a bigot, Frank. Deal with it.

Well, Anonymous, I have to side with A Hermit. His site is much more reputable than yours.

Yours is an Islamic site only, while Hermit's covers all Major World Religions and all Major Branches of Major World Religions.

Sorry, you lose.

You are wrong. This cames from bostonnow. We have a new mosque in Boston.

http://bostonnow.com/community/blogs/askmuslims/2007/06/07/islam-misunderstood-throughout-the-world/

According to anonymous bigot above; "More Muslims live in America today than all the Presbyterians and Episcopalians put together."

This is, to put it kindly, a lie.

There are almost 8 million Presbyterians and nearly 5 million Episcopalians in the United States, and less than 2 million Muslims.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

You can put your fears of a Muslim takeover of America away, I think...but then who would have to hate?

Poet is right. Wherever one looks, Islam is on the move.

More Muslims live in America today than all the Presbyterians and Episcopalians put together.

There are more than 1,200 mosques in the United States and 1000 mosques in England, where the Muslim community has established its own national parliament.

to SECULAR:

"how does it explain that Islam spread so quickly in 100 years"
well islam is also the fastest growing religion in the U.S. but i dont see any sword weilding muslims in my neighborhood:)

To JHByer: Thanks for the post. Actually Jesus predicted the coming of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Triune, Triumphant God so to speak not a human being. Actually islam does teach that Jesus lied because He did flat out say that He was God, you can pretty up a lie all you want but it is still a lie, satan is very good at lying he has been at it a long time. Some people seem to think that a lie is a lie only if it is 100% false, well they are the easier ones to spot, but something that is 99% true is still a lie. Jesus also said that "My Kingdom is not of this world", He also promised us new heavens and a new earth or something to that effect, exactly what that is, I don't know but that is what the Kingdom of God is going to be and not only is it going to be all inclusive but it will be better than anything I or anyone else could possible think of, it will be totally permeated with Love though considering that God is Love, Love and God are one and the same. I'm just a messenger though, the Old Testament Moses said I would be here and I tell the whole world it was quite a shock to find out that I am who I am. Jesus is "I Am Who Am' there is a huge difference between the two statements. Jesus was just as human as the rest of us but He was also God Incarnate, hard to believe but it is true, anybody that can turn Himself into a chunk of bread has my vote. By the way when the Holy Spirit came into my body on 1-29-2000 He revealed to me that Jesus is present in the Catholic Eucharist that happened at St. Luke's Church in Ocean City, Md. On 1-28-2000 God the Father came into my heart and you know what, He didn't say a word, He didn't have too. God is so much nicer than you would ever imagine by listening to what a lot of so called christian would have you think by what they say. As I have said before God is a searcher of hearts and minds not religious affiliations or lack thereof. True religion is taking care of widows and orphans which is basically all of us taking care of each other. Take Care, Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

TomH-

I'm so happy there are Christians like you. You, at the least, see "love thy neighbor as thyself" as achievable. Blessed Be.

A couple of anti-semites on this site love to berate the stupidities and outrageous statements found in the Talmud. Yes, the Talmud contains some evil statements. They stem from the frustration of Jewish scholars in the early AD period who were appalled, as well they might be, at the successs of the Christian hoax. This does not excuse their nastiness, but these comments are relatively few and far between compared to the vitriol directed by Christian theologians for 1950 years against the Jews, vitriol which led to the Holocaust. The Talmud, as bad as it is, never led to murder. The Talmud is not as murderous as the Gospels.

If you compared the history of minorities under Islam to the history of minorities under Christianity there would be no contest. Christians behaved with more barbarous cruelty towards Jews, Muslims, and Christian dissidents than Muslims ever behaved towards Christians, Jews, or Muslim dissidents.

It is only with the secularization of Christian populations that they seem more tolerant than Muslims who have remained to a larger extent in medieval conditions.

In truth all the so-called Abrahamic religious are in essence intolerant and murderous -- when they have had the chance.

Nice post "A hermit".

anyone with a sense of fairness would agree with you.

The TALMUD is much more evil and ANTI-SEMITIC then the koran.

The Talmud teaches much filth.

Here is a link for those who wish to learn truth...

America under the Talmud, will it work?

http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Nice post "A hermit".

anyone with a sense of fairness would agree with you.

The TALMUD is much more evil and ANTI-SEMITIC then the koran.

The Talmud teaches much filth.

Here is a link for those who wish to learn truth...

America under the Talmud, will it work?

http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

Nice post "A hermit".

anyone with a sense of fairness would agree with you.

The TALMUD is much more evil and ANTI-SEMITIC then the koran.

The Talmud teaches much filth.

Here is a link for those who wish to learn truth...

America under the Talmud, will it work?

http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html]

I think Ghandi's words that one's personal morality must overrule any religious doctrine that is murderous, violent or otherwise demeaning to mankind is key.

Most followers of the major faiths agree with this practice today.

Some hundreds of years ago some Christains were taught otherwise, to hate Jews and Muslims (if not others). Today's Christains almost all disagree with those acts and are ashamed.

Today there are a few Muslims who are teaching hate. They, too, are wrong. This not the fault of the Quran and the Bible; it is an example of sin in men.

We must all stand up and defeat hate, whether from Christians or Muslims. The alternative is to give our world to satan.

gregg; "TALMUD" may be the only one attacking the Jews, but the unreasoning hatred toward all Muslims demonstrated by Frank C, "anonymous" and others in these threads is no different. If it acts likes a Nazi, I call it a Nazi.

Again, not because I have any particular affinity for Islam, I've just been around long enough to learn that fear and ignorance go hand in hand with hatred, and that attacking one person for someone else's sins just perpetuates the problem.

Regards

A Hermit

Frank collins attempts to defend himself, saying:

"would anyone deny that the promotion of any group or organization, even if it calls itself a religion, or a political party, is vile and offensive - if the stated goals of that group consists of hating all jews, christians, hindu's, pagans, or anyone not of that group..."

The only people in this thread who fit that description are the antisemitic "talmud" commenter and you, Frank. Do you honestly think all Muslims fit into the same pigeonhole as the radical Islamists?! There are more than a billion Muslims in the world; to condemn them all for Osama's crimes is like condemning all Christians for the crimes of the IRA, or the Provos, or the Rwandan genociders, or the Tripura Liberation Front terrorists, or the Serbians who massacred 7,000 Muslims at Srebrinica, or the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda or...well, you get the picture.

I could go through the Bible and cherry pick passages that make it sound awfully bloodthirsty, too, or quote you speeches by Ian Paisley or Fred Phelps or Charles Taylor or other "Christian" leaders which are full of hatred and violence. But I'm sure you'd agree that to judge all Christians by their words and actions would be wrong.

Try dealing with the individual people you meet, instead of cringing in fear behind your stereotypes. You might learn something.

Regards

A Hermit

So why do you insist on jumping all over every Muslim here as if they are guilty of the crimes of the extremists? Like any Nazi you have chosen to take a whole group of people and label them "evil" so you can project your own fear, ignorance and hatred on them.

POet seems to be selling a yarn about how tolerant Islam has been. He does not give reasons why the Crusades were undertaken. How is it that a religion which was born in 7th century arabia spread like wild fire in less than 100 years needs explaining. It did not spread because every one saw the brilliant light in its teachings. It wa