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Those were better days of a progressive relationship not only between Christianity and Islam, but to humanity's social progress in general. People of every faith including agnostics and atheists must understand that despite our philosophical views of life and the world around us, human virtue exists in every culture, religion, nation and region. What's going on in our troubled times in terms of inter religious tensions are caused by ethnocentrism that also exists worldwide, which only proved to be counterproductive toward our social advancement.
Especially when religious leaders who inspire and guide a significant population of the faithful makes such comments causes the faithful to inadvertently conceive another culture or religion unfavorably. Despite any religious beliefs and disbeliefs, people should not be judged upon what they are but how they are?
What I mean is how this person treats others? Is this person generally trustworthy? Is this individual safe, sane, stable, secure and sincere? Such a different approach toward conceiving other people of different cultures as well as our own would overcome prejudice and bigotry. What's more is that we would also overcome our unwarranted fears.

Those were better days of a progressive relationship not only between Christianity and Islam, but to humanity's social progress in general. People of every faith including agnostics and atheists must understand that despite our philosophical views of life and the world around us, human virtue exists in every culture, religion, nation and region. What's going on in our troubled times in terms of inter religious tensions are caused by ethnocentrism that also exists worldwide, which only proved to be counterproductive toward our social advancement.
Especially when religious leaders who inspire and guide a significant population of the faithful makes such comments causes the faithful to inadvertently conceive another culture or religion unfavorably. Despite any religious beliefs and disbeliefs, people should not be judged upon what they are but how they are?
What I mean is how this person treats others? Is this person generally trustworthy? Is this individual safe, sane, stable, secure and sincere? Such a different approach toward conceiving other people of different cultures as well as our own would overcome prejudice and bigotry. What's more is that we would also overcome our unwarranted fears.

Those were better days of a progressive relationship not only between Christianity and Islam, but to humanity's social progress in general. People of every faith including agnostics and atheists must understand that despite our philosophical views of life and the world around us, human virtue exists in every culture, religion, nation and region. What's going on in our troubled times in terms of inter religious tensions are caused by ethnocentrism that also exists worldwide, which only proved to be counterproductive toward our social advancement.
Especially when religious leaders who inspire and guide a significant population of the faithful makes such comments causes the faithful to inadvertently conceive another culture or religion unfavorably. Despite any religious beliefs and disbeliefs, people should not be judged upon what they are but how they are?
What I mean is how this person treats others? Is this person generally trustworthy? Is this individual safe, sane, stable, secure and sincere? Such a different approach toward conceiving other people of different cultures as well as our own would overcome prejudice and bigotry. What's more is that we would also overcome our unwarranted fears.

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Matthew 5:11 ¶ Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Jesus is Lord !

Mehmed II amalgamated the old Byzantine administration into the Ottoman state, as he gathered Italian artists, humanists and Greek scholars at his court, kept the Byzantine Church functioning, ordered the patriarch to translate the Christian faith into Turkish and called Gentile Bellini from Venice to paint his portrait. He was extremely serious about his efforts to continue the Roman Empire, with him as its Caesar, and came closer than most people realize to capturing Rome and conquering Italy. Mehmed II also tried to get Muslim scientists and artists to his court in Constantinople, started a University, built mosques e.g. the Fatih Mosque, waterways, and the Topkapi Palace.

Mehmed II's reign is also well-known for the tolerance with which he treated his subjects, especially among the conquered Byzantines, which was very unusual for Europe in the middle ages. Within the conquered city he established a millet or an autonomous religious community, and he appointed the former Patriarch as essentially governor of the city. However, his authority extended only to the Orthodox Christians of the city, and this excluded the Genoese and Venetian settlements in the suburbs, and excluded the coming Muslim and Jewish settlers entirely. This method allowed for an indirect rule of the Christian Byzantines and allowed the occupants to feel relatively autonomous even as Mehmed II began the Turkish remodeling of the city, eventually turning it into the Turkish capital, which it remained until the 1920s.

Constantine XI

(February 8, 1405[1] – May 29, 1453) was the last reigning Emperor of the Byzantine Empire, from 1448 to his death.

Constantine was born in Constantinople as the eighth of ten children of Manuel II Palaiologos and Helena Dragaš, the daughter of the Serbian prince Constantine Dragaš of Kumanovo. In a variant of the Byzantine practice of adopting the distaff surname where it connoted more prestige, Constantine liked to be known by his mother's name of Dragaš (Serbian: Драгаш) or Dragasēs, which she inherited from her Serbian father. He spent most of his childhood in Constantinople under the supervision of his parents. During the absence of his older brother in Italy, Constantine was regent in Constantinople from 1437 to 1439.

When his brother, Emperor John VIII Palaiologos, died, a dispute erupted between Constantine and his brother Demetrios Palaiologos over the throne. They appealed to the Ottoman Sultan Murad II to arbitrate the disagreement. He chose Constantine, who was crowned at Mistra on January 6, 1449. Constantine XI attempted to marry a distant cousin, Maria Branković, the widow of Murad II, but the courtship failed. Soon afterwards, Sultan Mehmed II began agitating for ownership of Constantinople. Desperate for any type of military assistance, Constantine XI appealed to the West, but he was refused help unless he united the Orthodox Church with the Roman Catholic Church, which was a policy pursued by his predecessors. He declared the churches united after the Council of Florence in 1452, but the union was overwhelmingly rejected by his subjects and it dangerously estranged him from his chief minister and military commander, the Megas Doux Loukas Notaras.

Mehmed II offered Constantine XI the chance to rule in Mistra before the siege of Constantinople, but he refused, preferring to fight and die defending his empire. His wish to die in defence of the Empire would come true, as he was killed while defending the gates of Constantinople on May 29, 1453. The Emperor, when realising that the end had come ("The City is fallen but I am alive"), discarded his purple cloak and charged into the breach. Some sources record that he was only recognized afterwards by his purple boots, and others that the Turks were never able to identify his body, and so the last Emperor of Rome was buried in a mass grave along with his soldiers.

A legend refers to the Marble King, Constantine XI, holding that, when the Ottomans entered the city, an angel rescued the emperor, turned him into marble and placed him in a cave under the earth near the Golden Gate, where he waits to be brought to life again.[2][3].

Orthodox Christians consider Constantine XI a saint, but he has not been officially recognized as such. However, his bravery and last stand are seen by many as a great heroic act. Additionally, in the centuries of Ottoman rule, any effort on the part of the Orthodox Church to officially glorify Constantine XI as a saint would have been seen as an act of rebellion, and hence decidedly ill-advised. After the Greek War of Independence (1821-1831), when the Greek Orthodox Church once again had freedom to act, an official act of glorification was thought to be superfluous, on account of longstanding veneration as a saint and martyr, specifically, an ethnomartyr, Greek ἐθνομάρτυρας. However, the erection of the statue of "Saint Constantine XI the Ethnomartyr" in the Cathedral Square in Athens, with the formal blessing of the Church authorities, appears to be a semi-official act of recognition. His feast falls on 29 May.

Never having repudiated his union with Rome, and dying in full communion with Rome, having received Holy Communion at the hands of Cardinal Isidore of Kiev only a few hours before his death, he technically died a Greek-Catholic, and for this reason he is also venerated by Eastern Catholics.

wasnt constantine the emperor when constantinople
was attacked? 1543?

Muslims and christians share the belief that Jesus(ata) will return to the earth again.
I meant the return to the jews of the messiah.
No one knows when this will happen.
All jewish people are not zionists for this reason.
It was posed eloquently to me by an orthodox jewish rabbi who was anti-zionist .

Youre right about that, maybe hes here now, and that is the whole idea, the unity.

Muslims and christians alike believe jesus(ata) will come back to earth at the end times, which no one knows. I meant that it will be clear to the jewish people that their messiah is coming to them
also. The destruction of the temple took place after Jesus(ata). This would be what christians call the second coming.
Abd , he could be, couldt he!

Victoria,

Don't worry about the multiple posts. This software is imperfect and we recognize that accidents happen.

Forgetting about translation issues for a second, the contradiction is between passages that one can find that appear to promote war and discrimination and those that promote peace and harmony.

I do have one comment:
> would not gather back together until he sent the promised one to them, which one could pretty
> safely argue hasnt happened yet.

If you are a Christian, then several passages should be considered - the ones where Jesus' second coming is like a thief in the night. 1Thes.5.2 2Pet.3.1 and Rev.16.15. I have no more knowledge than anyone else, but such passages give me pause.

Are we sure that in this darkness the world is in right now, He's not here amongst us, albeit unseen right now? Can we truly say that this coming will not bring all religions together 'as beeds on one string' reconciling all the apparent differences?

Salman Ahmad wrote:

"Like the vast majority of moderate Muslims, I too felt a visceral disappointment with Pope Benedict XVI's statement which recalled King Constantine's medieval Christianity's stereotypical portrayal of Prophet Muhammad's "legacy of violence."

I am confused!! Was'nt Prophet Muhammad born a couple of hundred years later after King Constantine died?

As to Islam's legacy of conitnuing violence, all that Salman has to do is to look at what is going on in his own native land, Pakistan, and the Middle East. Not all of the violence there is the handiwork of Jews and Europeans!! Or, is it?

Neither Islam's legacy of violence or Christianity's violent crusades of the past and its continuing "violence" in overtly or covertly converting people to Christianity can be denied.

All Abrahmic faiths have acquired violent histories though its originators often spoke of peace, compassion and respect for life. But, in actuality all that was cast aside when both Christianity and Islam became powerful tools in the hands of imperialists who wanted to expand their hegemony over other nations.

Until theocracies and "faith-based or divinely inspired" foreign policies are made anathema by the civilized world, we will continue to have inter-religious strife, violence and mayhem.

Alex

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE MULTIPLE POSTS- THE SITE KEPT TELLINGME THAT IT WASNT BEING POSTED BECAUSE I HAD POSTED TOO MANY- AS YOU CAN SEE BUT APPARENTLY I DONT HAVE TO DO IT MYSELF.

O DUH- WAS WRACKING MY TINY LITTLE BRAIN TRYING TO FIND CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THE QURANIC QUOTES, NOT LOOKING AT JIMS. THERES QUITE A FEW MORE SEEMINGLY (ACTUALLY) VIOLENT VERSES ATTRIBUTED TO JESUS ALSO BUT IT SERVES NO GOOD PURPOSE TO ENUMERATE THEM.

FERN, i still dont see the contradiction. perhaps you could elaborate. if you like.
Now, youve quoted the Qur'an,

First- We both know that when there are paretheses in TRANSLATIONS of the Qur'an, that they are insertians by the trnslator.

Pharoah sought to scare them out of the land,but we drowned him together with all who were with him. Then we said to the Israelites, "Dwell in this land." whn the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, we shall assemble you all together.
(This is the above text without insertions.)

The Noble Qur'an Dr. Al- Hillali and dr. Khan from the Islamic University in Madinah

104- And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land then, when the final and the last promise comes near, We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd.

Now this is really an intelligent question you asked, and might seem like a sign of the end of times, but we muslims will be given no sifns. Actually nither will the christians. And it doesnt say Israel either. Insertions by translators don't count as scriptural truth.
Also ALLLAH told the jews their temple would be destroyed twice and they would be dispersed and would not gather back together until he sent the promised one to them, which one could pretty safely argue hasnt happened yet.
But Im not opening THAT can of worms.
But I like the way your mind works, Fern.
peace

FERN, i still dont see the contradiction. perhaps you could elaborate. if you like.
Now, youve quoted the Qur'an,

First- We both know that when there are paretheses in TRANSLATIONS of the Qur'an, that they are insertians by the trnslator.

Pharoah sought to scare them out of the land,but we drowned him together with all who were with him. Then we said to the Israelites, "Dwell in this land." whn the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, we shall assemble you all together.
(This is the above text without insertions.)

The Noble Qur'an Dr. Al- Hillali and dr. Khan from the Islamic University in Madinah

104- And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land then, when the final and the last promise comes near, We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd.

Now this is really an intelligent question you asked, and might seem like a sign of the end of times, but we muslims will be given no sifns. Actually nither will the christians. And it doesnt say Israel either. Insertions by translators don't count as scriptural truth.
Also ALLLAH told the jews their temple would be destroyed twice and they would be dispersed and would not gather back together until he sent the promised one to them, which one could pretty safely argue hasnt happened yet.
But Im not opening THAT can of worms.
But I like the way your mind works, Fern.
peace

FERN, i still dont see the contradiction. perhaps you could elaborate. if you like.
Now, youve quoted the Qur'an,

First- We both know that when there are paretheses in TRANSLATIONS of the Qur'an, that they are insertians by the trnslator.

Pharoah sought to scare them out of the land,but we drowned him together with all who were with him. Then we said to the Israelites, "Dwell in this land." whn the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, we shall assemble you all together.
(This is the above text without insertions.)

The Noble Qur'an Dr. Al- Hillali and dr. Khan from the Islamic University in Madinah

104- And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land then, when the final and the last promise comes near, We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd.

Now this is really an intelligent question you asked, and might seem like a sign of the end of times, but we muslims will be given no sifns. Actually nither will the christians. And it doesnt say Israel either. Insertions by translators don't count as scriptural truth.
Also ALLLAH told the jews their temple would be destroyed twice and they would be dispersed and would not gather back together until he sent the promised one to them, which one could pretty safely argue hasnt happened yet.
But Im not opening THAT can of worms.
But I like the way your mind works, Fern.
peace

FERN, i still dont see the contradiction. perhaps you could elaborate. if you like.
Now, youve quoted the Qur'an,

First- We both know that when there are paretheses in TRANSLATIONS of the Qur'an, that they are insertians by the trnslator.

Pharoah sought to scare them out of the land,but we drowned him together with all who were with him. Then we said to the Israelites, "Dwell in this land." whn the promise of the hereafter comes to be fulfilled, we shall assemble you all together.
(This is the above text without insertions.)

The Noble Qur'an Dr. Al- Hillali and dr. Khan from the Islamic University in Madinah

104- And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land then, when the final and the last promise comes near, We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd.

Now this is really an intelligent question you asked, and might seem like a sign of the end of times, but we muslims will be given no sifns. Actually nither will the christians. And it doesnt say Israel either. Insertions by translators don't count as scriptural truth.
Also ALLLAH told the jews their temple would be destroyed twice and they would be dispersed and would not gather back together until he sent the promised one to them, which one could pretty safely argue hasnt happened yet.
But Im not opening THAT can of worms.
But I like the way your mind works, Fern.
peace

NAMELESS....I hope i didn't give you the wrong impression....i just put this site up for folks to see......I am a follower of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Jim,there's an exellent translation of the quran
which helped me sift truth from fantasy.
Its by the famous western scholar Muhammad Asad who was of Jewish origin and also wrote many books on Islam.

I checked out your website and its pretty obvious
that its an islamophobic site with a fox news like approach:)

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

FERN,
I think you need to re-read matthew 10:24.
The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

Tonius, read the history of what was going on in the region in depth and you'll see that the story is entirely different than you presented it.

Victoria, I thought the contradiction is what I provided in contrast to what Jim had quoted. But the question goes beyond that since we're all discussing things from translations.

There is one translation of the Quran that states that in the end times (end of days) Allah will bring all the Jewish people together in the state of Israel. I once challenged an Islamist (who can't read Arabic) to tell me if he believed this was the end times and, if so, how could he challenge Israel's existance since it was the will of God (Allah). He never replied. The quote is from 17:100-104:

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of
Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were
with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land
[the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days]
comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all
together [in the Land of Israel]."

The translation is by Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi who holds a Ph.D in Islamic Sciences by
decree of the Grand Mufti of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Compare other translations and you'll see how hard it is to know what the Quran really says unless you read Arabic:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/017.qmt.html#017.104
Even the tense of the verse is different between translations. That's why I believe too many people think they know what the Quran says when they're only reading one translation which might be really different than the original meaning.

Please explain the murders of meccans, jewish tribes and Christians by Mohammed. Mohammed original band of thugs and tyrants killed 1000s of people from 624 AD until 628 AD. The facts are there for anyone who wants to read them.

Christianity gained through martyrdom, Islam by the sword.

Its important for muslims and christians to understand the spirit of the Bible and the Quran.
An exellent book which contrasts the bible with the quran is John Kaltner's "Ishmael instructs Isaac"

The question about Shia / Sunni division is more a political construct much like the Catholic/protestant divide in northern Ireland.

Muhammad was neither a shia or a sunni he called himself a muslim.The divisions came after his death.

He that lives by the sword shall die by the sword.Matt 26:52 in remonstrance to Peter for drawing his sword in anger.

although actually- it is some have said the peace he was not bringing was peace in ones life - the upheaval of home and hearth required by the disciples and abuse from people etc. and the sword was the sword of truth but it depends on your interpertation, is it broad? symbolic? or literal? or both?

im not quite getting what exactly the contradiction is in the ayats there, but im sometimes a dim bulb
most respectfully though- i have heard this claim before and asked peoples to give me any example of contradiction in the Qu'ran (not counting direct abrogations) and no one has risen to the challenge yet.
heres a more enigmatic contradiction in te bible-
who wrote exodus if it describes the death of moses?
were there co-authors? it is touted as written by moses that seems to be a little gaff at the end always stuck in my head. i used to have a big list of biblical contradictions but i forget them mostly now and besides it would seem like a mean thing to do what reason is there to bring it up?

Maybe jim couldnt find any contradictions!
I really hope that you do not feel that im in any way diminish your beliefs or do some one upsmanship with you i sincerely am not i would like to find a contradiction though well i wouldnt like it especially maybe but im interested becasue i cant find any and of course as always when something may appear to be in contradiction it may be ripped out of context. youll have to excuse my babbling all in the interestr of intellectual curiosity here peace

Jim quotes a couple of passages from the Quran but does not put the entire document into context with contrasting documents.

I could do the same thing with the Bible if I were so inclined to prove that Jesus was really in favor of war:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matt 10:24

All scripture has contradictory passages from which people can find what they want to find. For example:

KHALIFA: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. 5:69

Surely Allah enjoins justice, kindness and doing of good, to kith and kin, and forbids all that is shameful, evil and oppressive. He exhorts you so that you may be mindful.) (An-Nahl 16:90)

Ive posted quite a bit on the speech and my disappointments etc... and it has drawn me into a dialogue in the question posted about his visit to turkey... i was somewhat scathing at first but am a little overwhelmed by the amount of questions now most seemingly in good faith( theres also alot of islamophobes) so im trying hard to give good dawa and never attack or belittle anyones opinions and stick to a mannerly presentation of islam- im not a scolar but am a little bit of a thinker - evidenced by my hurried misspelling! I surely would appreciate any good info on why precisely Mohammed(pbuh) did not exort violence as this is a running theme and i want to undertake a sound response. But i digress as always.
Ive been somewhat critical of the motives of the Pope and today i saw on a turkish newspaper site a video of the Pontiff praying in the blue mosque in istanbul- it was a reverenced and respectful prayer and my heart melted a little for him..i thought it was a gracious and outstanding gesture on his part.if you read my posts youll see i havent exactly been wreathing him with accolades- but how can one read anothers posts here anyway it can be quite tiresome to sift through here.

As far as my limited and admittedly sketchy knowledge recalls- i believe that islam is a derivation of salaam meaning peace but that the word islam itslef means submission.
p.s. i sure did love john paul.

o submitting to the will of ALLAH of course!
peace

Salman,

I thought the meaning of the word Islam was "surrender". With that in mind, who is surrendering to whom?

Salman,
As a moderate muslim, could you please explain why sunni and shia muslim are killing one another? Why are they doing this? What could the difference between them possibly be?

Thank you.

SALMAN AHMAD,could you please explain some of this kindness and compassion your talking about.
Note the compassion below.

Quran Surah 2: The Cow

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Th

Quran Surah 4: Women

Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14
For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37
Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91 ( Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive. They are called qazwah (raid, ambush, sudden attack). That is how Muhammad waged his wars. He raided, massacred and looted civilians with no warning. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrori

Surah 9: Repentance

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 3
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 5
Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 17
Give tiding of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. 34
If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 39
Disbelievers go to hell. 49
Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 60
Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 63
Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 68
Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 73
Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 74
For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 90
Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 113
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 123