Washington Post journalist, author and Washington DC insider, Sally Quinn founded and co-moderates On Faith, a blog from the Washington Post and Newsweek. Co-moderated by Newsweek editor and bestselling author Jon Meacham and hosted by a panel of renowned religious scholars of all denominations, On Faith is the first worldwide, interactive discussion about religion and its impact on global life.
While researching an article about religion in Washington prior to the 2000 presidential campaign, Quinn noticed that while religion had an enormous influence on worldwide politics, it was a taboo subject in our nation’s capital. Following 9/11, Quinn’s interest in religion grew and her passion to understand it from a personal and political perspective took on new urgency and focus.
Over the past decade, Quinn has pursued a religious education with the same drive and rigor she once gave to politics. Leveraging her rolodex from 30 years as a columnist, she sought out spiritual mentorship from religious leaders and scholars such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Reverend Jim Anderson, Father Bryan Hehir and John Esposito. To gain emotional and spiritual perspective, she traveled to many of the world’s holy sites in Rome, Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Tibet, Delhi, Cairo, Ethiopia and Istanbul, and began attending several religious services and ceremonies a week at churches, temples and mosques.
Quinn has written four books: “We’re Going to Make You a Star,” about her short-lived experience as a co-anchor for “CBS Morning News”; “Regrets Only,” her first novel; “Happy Endings,” its sequel, and “The Party,” in which Quinn offers an insider’s look at Washington entertaining and a personal view of the value of friendship. She is currently working on a book about religion in Washington.
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Sally Quinn
Washington Post reporter
Washington Post journalist, author and Washington DC insider, Sally Quinn founded and co-moderates On Faith, a blog from the Washington Post and Newsweek. Co-moderated by Newsweek editor and bestselling author Jon Meacham and hosted by a panel of renowned religious scholars of all denominations, On Faith is the first worldwide, interactive discussion about religion and its impact on global life.
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I read your column, "Congress' bullying pulpit" in the January 2, 2008, edition of The Palm Beach Post. How refreshing to see someone stand up to the way too powerful, Christian religion.
I was born and raised a Catholic. I spent first grade in public school. Against my wishes, my mother enrolled me in Catholic school from second grade on. It's strange how as a young child, I could sense something wrong.
Well, I liked going to Catholic school at first. Since I came from a dysfunctional family, Catholic School fulfilled a need. I was young and impressionable and gobbled up every bit of propaganda that was pumped into my mind. I needed to belong, even in a subservient position. I was proud to be an altar boy, (the first in my grade, at the time) and felt good about receiving the sacraments. I believed fervently, everthing that I was told. I felt very secure, knowing that I was a good, obedient, Catholic.
As I grew older and was beginning to be capable to form my own views on what I was being taught, I was starting to see the truth of what the Catholics were teaching. Gradually, I could no longer accept the lies I was being taught. I was still too young for my mind to put in proper perspective my concern about my education. Being in a very catholic environment, and with the brainwashing I had received, I felt extreme guilt for doubting the "very pious" Catholic Church. I felt like I was the heathen that I had been taught about. I felt like I was going to hell for not believing all the stories which were in fact, very unbelievable stories. I could not discuss this with anybody. I would have been embarrassed and ashamed for anybody to know that I felt the way I did. I became a closet atheist saddled with inner turmoil. After years of vacillating between guilt and truth, I finally freed myself of the catholic imposed demons that I had.
The Catholic Church did not care about me or my, "salvation". It was only interested in power and control. I was just a pawn. It had absolutely no qualms about filling my head with lies. I had as role models, quirky, wrinkled, neurotic old nuns whose only station in life was to worship Jesus. They didn't know anything about life except to devote their entire life to serving Jesus. These were my teachers. They were in a different world, otherwise they would not have become nuns. It should be considered a crime of child abuse to expose young, vulnerable, children to people like that. I was only taught three things, incessantly... I owe everything to Jesus Christ, my saviour, who died on the cross to save me from my sins; If you're not Catholic, you are going to hell; and I am a sinner. Although I had a good mind, I did poorly in school. I was disruptive and disobedient because I had no respect for the nuns or the priests and knew they were lying to me,and certainly sensed that I was getting a poor education. It was not until I got out of school and broke free of the Catholic hold on me, thatI was able to develop myself. The only productive year of education I had, was in first grade...the only year I spent in public sahool
If it were a fair world, based on fairness, and not power, there would not be enough money in the world that the Catholic Church could compensate me, to atone for the damage they did to me.
My response is belated. I must admit that it has been somewhat difficult for me to find the right words to respond to the honest and touching personal account of how you came to be an atheist as a child, about your great love for your father, and about his deep religious faith and his prayer that you would become a Christian.
One thing becomes immediately clear – you were an extremely sensitive child who cared about the suffering of soldiers, the pain involved in war for all concerned, and the circumstances of your life were directly affected by the war. Evil after all baffles and confounds the most iron hearted of believers, and the evil of WW II is unparalleled in human history. So it is not at all surprising that it left a young child like you in despair.
People react differently to suffering: it makes some deepen their faith, it makes others lose theirs. Who can say why some react in one way and the others in another? Life is a mystery indeed, and equally mysterious are God's ways of leading people to Him!
The gift of the cross you made to your father with the money given to buy candy has come back to you a million fold. Your father’s prayer may not be answered in the way he meant it – not yet - you becoming a Christian, but the risk you took hosting an On Faith forum on The Washington Post is an answer to your dad’s prayer for the benefits of this forum are incalculable. Your faith journey is ended only when you breathe your last. Who can say what is yet to come? You need only remain open to the leading of the Spirit of God as you are now and He will take care of the rest.
I feel confident that your dad’s prayers for you to become a Christian is sure to be answered in God’s time and in God’s way. I keep you in my prayers too. And thanks once again for sharing something so deeply personal and thank you for the great work.
Ed Paradis: I'm glad you found comfort when you needed it.
You say, "There are no none belivers in combat, I don't care where you are from, at one time in your combat life you WILL pray to God for his help."
But there are in fact "atheists in foxholes" - they are good soldiers, just like you, but they don't believe in god. Please check out http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/
Sally, this was especially touching. I grew up in a dysfunctional military family in Canada... church was important but not much religion. Moving out as a young teenager, I spent a lot of time reading every kind of eastern philosophy, spent a dozen plus years as a Scientologist and eventually became a Christian and so often now feel connected to my childhood. There was a bit of foundation there after all. Most days I spend some time praying for my father, the retired soldier who doesn't believe... and for soldiers everywhere who sacrifice more than I think God should ask of them and their families. Mostly I just thank Him that they are there. Today I'm thanking Him for your dad too.
Thanks for sharing.
Sally, this was especially touching. I grew up in a dysfunctional military family in Canada... church was important but not much religion. Moving out as a young teenager, I spent a lot of time reading every kind of eastern philosophy, spent a dozen plus years as a Scientologist and eventually became a Christian and so often now feel connected to my childhood. There was a bit of foundation there after all. Most days I spend some time praying for my father, the retired soldier who doesn't believe... and for soldiers everywhere who sacrifice more than I think God should ask of them and their families. Mostly I just thank Him that they are there. Today I'm thanking Him for your dad too.
Thanks for sharing.
Sally, this was especially touching. I grew up in a dysfunctional military family in Canada... church was important but not much religion. Moving out as a young teenager, I spent a lot of time reading every kind of eastern philosophy, spent a dozen plus years as a Scientologist and eventually became a Christian and so often now feel connected to my childhood. There was a bit of foundation there after all. Most days I spend some time praying for my father, the retired soldier who doesn't believe... and for soldiers everywhere who sacrifice more than I think God should ask of them and their families. Mostly I just thank Him that they are there. Today I'm thanking Him for your dad too.
Thanks for sharing.
I was with the 101st in Viet Nam. I had been born a Cath, and had lost my way while over there. I realy was looking for some thing to beleive in.
We had a Medic who was a conscientious obecter for religious resons, I had so much repect for him it wasn't funny. He would talk with me about the Bible all the time. He would talk with me every time he had a chance.
Then the day I was wounded I remember what he said to me, I had made peace with my God on 3 different ocations that day. I found God on that day and have not lost sight of him since.
There are no none belivers in combat, I don't care where you are from, at one time in your combat life you WILL pray to God for his help. Thank You Ed Paradis B/2/501st 101st Airborne
You are in bondage to this forum. Why are you frantic to get the next and last post? You know the contents of your own heart. I do not bear false witness. But you (an atheist) are compelled to make an accusation. (belligerent and biased bigot?)
Take a break. Try very hard not to compulsively "have to answer" this post. Walk away from the computer. Break the addiction. It's still a beautiful world. Get some help.
No you don't, but I think you do have some obligation not to make accusations without backing them up. I think that might fall under "bearing false witness."
I like to think people reading here can easily see who has tried to draw whom into an argument.
The whole point of this forum is to discuss religious views. Of course there will be differences in perspective among us.
Ultimately, to those who reject the God of the Bible, and the truths contained therein, there is nothing but despair to look forward to when the chips are down.
Secular humanism requires no courage, seeks no sacrifice, expects no self-abnegation. When the chips ARE down, ie. in combat, conceited lone ranger types only looking out for no.1 are not who you want to watch your 6:00.
I am a reader here. My life is too active to post regularly. I don't need to find your old posts. You know your feelings and you know what brings you back to post daily hoping to find a Christian to ridicule, criticize, and draw into an argument.
Theophila - yes - I'm aware my posts are archived.
If you have some of them handy, perhaps you could post or link to the ones that you think show me to be "belligerent, biased, bigoted and brainless” and an “@ss.” Also, does this mean that you don't think my post in this particular section reflects me in my usual negative light?
Are you a regular poster as well as a reader? I don't recognize your name. Have you gone by another name here?
Theophilia - I don't hate Christianity. I'm critical of it and there are also many aspects of it I love - the beautiful music, the lovely architecture, the warm community that some churches offer. I'd like to see Christianity survive with all of that intact, but without continued espousing of belief in invisible supernatural events and beings.
Please notice that I didn’t personally attack you or Allen Clark. You, meanwhile, have called me “belligerent, biased, bigoted and brainless” and an “@ass.”
I’m glad we both have the opportunity to discuss our opinions and feelings openly. We have our secular constitution to thank for that. And I assume neither of us would want to live in a theocracy, where critical remarks about the state religion could result in execution, instead of just a string of insults.
I was in the desert. I will talk about it because i am a woman and a mother and women talk about things- it doesn't mean I'm a faker.
I prayed daily, read my scriptures daily. When things got too hard, I prayed about what to do and the message I got was to read the scriptures morning and night. I know my prayers were often answered- for my safety, for my family back home, for my comrades, even for me to find someone to be best buddies with. I could not have made it without believing in a heaven, in a kindly God. When I came home my life really hit the fan- marriage problems, we needed a new roof, no money, daughter getting married, son going to college, my sister died of cancer, the refrigerator died too...I just wanted to get back on the plane and go back to the war. But my faith got me through it and four years later my life is not problem-free, but I'm not looking for my heaven here on earth. I'm just looking to endure to the end in living a simple and honest life, serving my fellow man, using my abilities the best I can and loving my family. Unto each life some rain must fall. God doesn't look upon death the way we do, with fear. He sees it as a way to lift us out of this morass.
I was in the desert. I will talk about it because i am a woman and a mother and women talk about things- it doesn't mean I'm a faker.
I prayed daily, read my scriptures daily. When things got too hard, I prayed about what to do and the message I got was to read the scriptures morning and night. I know my prayers were often answered- for my safety, for my family back home, for my comrades, even for me to find someone to be best buddies with. I could not have made it without believing in a heaven, in a kindly God. When I came home my life really hit the fan- marriage problems, we needed a new roof, no money, daughter getting married, son going to college, my sister died of cancer, the refrigerator died too...I just wanted to get back on the plane and go back to the war. But my faith got me through it and four years later my life is not problem-free, but I'm not looking for my heaven here on earth. I'm just looking to endure to the end in living a simple and honest life, serving my fellow man, using my abilities the best I can and loving my family. Unto each life some rain must fall. God doesn't look upon death the way we do, with fear. He sees it as a way to lift us out of this morass.
I was in the desert. I will talk about it because i am a woman and a mother and women talk about things- it doesn't mean I'm a faker.
I prayed daily, read my scriptures daily. When things got too hard, I prayed about what to do and the message I got was to read the scriptures morning and night. I know my prayers were often answered- for my safety, for my family back home, for my comrades, even for me to find someone to be best buddies with. I could not have made it without believing in a heaven, in a kindly God. When I came home my life really hit the fan- marriage problems, we needed a new roof, no money, daughter getting married, son going to college, my sister died of cancer, the refrigerator died too...I just wanted to get back on the plane and go back to the war. But my faith got me through it and four years later my life is not problem-free, but I'm not looking for my heaven here on earth. I'm just looking to endure to the end in living a simple and honest life, serving my fellow man, using my abilities the best I can and loving my family. Unto each life some rain must fall. God doesn't look upon death the way we do, with fear. He sees it as a way to lift us out of this morass.
Aren't you (in the smallest way) thankful that you live in freedom and have the opportunity almost daily to post your hatred of Christians and Christianity with no fear or loss?
Would you really prefer living under a totalitarian regime (as many are suffering under as you read)?
Today I celebrate your ability to make an @ss of yourself on a public board and I thank the men and women who have made the sacrifice to give you that right.
God works in mysterious ways. Your ways are easily predicted: belligerent, biased, bigoted and brainless.
Allan Clark: "But today my faith is stronger than ever and my understanding of my God deeper because I understand the free will allowed by my God and the great eternal struggle of good versus evil."
To me this sounds like the ultimate rationalization.
Ken Chandler - I notice you have a lot of your statements in quotes, without mentioning who is being quoted. Are you distancing yourself from these ideas?
Even when you supposedly are speaking for yourself, it sounds rote: "...He gave His only begotten Son to live a perfect example for us, be unjustly accused, and to take on His shoulders the penalties for sin, shed His blood in payment and die for us (in our places)."
Of course, I recognize this as standard Christian teaching, which even as a believer didn't make sense to me. How does one person's death atone for another's let alone for the entire human race. And what needed atoning for? Eve eating the apple? It seems like overkill. Plus, Jesus suffers a few hours, is dead only 3 days, then goes to live in heaven forever.
Meanwhile, many others endure a lifetime of suffering, after which some of them go to hell forever (according to Christian doctrine) either because they never knew about Jesus or they declined to accept him as their savior (in some cases because they were born into other religions.)
God works in mysterious ways? I’d say, so do people when trying to apply ancient stories to current life.
The faith of our fathers and mothers is the greatest gift they can give us. It's an everlasting gift. When they choose to serve they give of themselves for those they know and those they don't. Each generation grows either understanding that faith or never recieving the gift. As we look on the atrocities of man against man it is easy to say "How could a God allow this?". What we should be asking is "God forgive us for letting it get so bad and thank you (God) for giving us free choice." God never made us to be robots, but to become a part of His family. That's so precious that He gave His only begotten Son to live a perfect example for us, be unjustly accused, and to take on His shoulders the penalties for sin, shed His blood in payment and die for us (in our places). It's His ultimate love and sacrifice just as the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine sheds their blood to bring a freedom for us and those we don't know. "Without the shedding of blood there is no freedom." "The only sacrifice worth giving was given by Jesus Christ when He shed his blood for your soul and by the GI who shed his blood for your freedom." As your family sacrificed so much, see in their sacrifice that a loving God allows us the freedom of choice. We have that gift He's offering to spend eternity with Him or we can reject it. Just like those who rejected Him committed such atrocities, we have the freedom to stop atrocities as well as the responsibility. It isn't God's fault that man kills man - it's man and his responsibility. It isn't God's fault man didn't protect man. It's up to us to do by God's example and thank Him for our freedoms and accept His gift. Your father did and set such a wonderful example in his sacrifice. Look to your father's sacrifice in freeing those oppressed and thank God for him - I know I do. Think upon the good of God and ask Him to show you His love and the good He really does do in providing Godly men and women to sacrifice for all of us. And thank you for the message of your father that you've written. May God bless you and yours.
Everyone attempts to relate to those who write what we read and also to agree/disagree with the ideas expressed. Sally, I too as an Army "brat" was in that Tokyo General Hospital in 1952 in the pediatric ward with a stomach ailment. I too looked thru the hallway latticework at the men residing in the head injury ward. It was horrible.I still went to West Point and still volunteered for Vietnam and ended up a double leg amputee. But today my faith is stronger than ever and my understanding of my God deeper because I understand the free will allowed by my God and the great eternal struggle of good versus evil. My healing journey and my lay ministry to all our warriors is expressed at www.combatfaith.com. God allows the pain but does not ordain it. Because it is there and there are bad people who perpetrate it does not detract from the goodness nor the strength of my God to stop it, but the ultimate adversary of all mankind is the ultimate perpetrator and people such as General Quinn and I went off to fight the bad guys egged on by bad principles and emotions and motivations. This day after Veterans Day I am proud to be a veteran who fought against evil and I thank my God that I was blessed to be allowed to live on after that June 17, 2007 day at Dak To in Vietnam.
Thank you very much for printing that article. I think it was very well done. I know from my own experience that not everyone believes. Because I had a roomate in school in Great Lakes that found it rather interesting that I prayed every night before I would go to sleep. Also I was the Catholic Lay Leader a few times because I was on a ship that was too small for a Chaplain. Again thank you very much for writing that story and keep up the great work.
Thomas J. Steinke
War = Forcing Square peg into Round hole using soldier's heads as hammers
End "official" religion = End war
God wouldn't be caught dead on a battle field but those who claim to represent God requisition the battle field in the name of God. It's really Devil they represent. Ms Sally Fileds knew better well ahead of the curve, avoided the torture of Sunday school.
For the rest of you students there's http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul with the usual warning, don't expect to get much for your soul because the market is flooded. The big money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell and paid by the multitudes. The money on the plate plate is Devil's fee for the souls of his ministers.
The road to hell is paved with the corpses of dead soldiers who died on the battle field. They died in the name of God while uttering the word God. Only too late do they realize it was Devil that answered their call. When it comes to kill or be killed Devil is the only reliable supernatural being.
i watched bill moyers the other day, he had thomas cahill on and the discussion was humna cruelty.
bill asked mr cahill if there were any corollaries that could be drawn between the fall of the roman empire and american decline-
(its a question from bill moyers folks, not a comment on the steength of america)
and he answered that the similarity exists in that the roman empire began its decline when the poor and middle class were overburdened taxed to support the state, and the rich werent taxed at all.
Random thoughts on SQ's essay - Totally non-religious, but with the same loving sentiments:
1.As a child, I gave my mother a garish Christmas tree pin and my father a nice set of cufflinks. Along the way, I forgot I'd given them these gifts. They never forgot, though and later told me that they thought of me every time they wore them. I have them now.
2.When my mother died, the funeral home director placed a rosary in her hands – something she was never seen holding when she was alive. One family member tucked a pack of cigarettes and a deck of cards in the coffin – much more appropriate mementos of her life.
Soldiers should not be forced through unjust pressure, to enter into conflicts which are not justified,such as Iraq,Afghanistan,which having brought but death destruction,on all sides.Yet by far the more on Iraq as Afghanistan,which venture into many hundreds of thousands being dead....the failings of such ill thougt ventures, must be put at the door of political parties,on both sides of the channel.There be those in the military,whom still retaining some working brain cells warned, the invasion of IRAQ as AfGHANISTN be folly,they being brushed aside by the texas cowboys,whom in had a political mentallity equal to the latter leaders of the Roman Empire. Becoming rotten with corruption,unable to hold the Empire together,but through military brutality.Which only speeded its decline,as the USA,we see same patern a bringing its downfall, political corruption, deceit, fraud, the nations domestic as international standing be dire.. the cold war with Russia, replaced by the threat of terrorism, both used as an cover,to avoid facing the appalling state of American domestic problems,as has long since be unfit to represent freedom, as democracy, on the internation stage....Over time USA govts having abandoned serving domestic as international law, such being replaced by military might, the result, an trail of destruction death worldwide....
As a United States airman and a history major, I have come to appreciate the way that faith has played a major part in the survival of troops in dangerous situations. Faith helped many people in times of difficulty, in POW camps, and in the face of horrible atrocities such as the Holocaust. Faith provided an excellent relief from the burden of hopelessness, even if a troop didn't survive. Faith helped many.
Ah I see, all the bad stuff is the Devil and all the good stuff is God. Glad we cleared that up. No gray area there, eh? Devil = war. Crosses = God. Funny, I have a friend who is a Satanist (says it on his dog tags) who was lucky enough to be stationed in Germany (he's a computer geek), then again I have another friend who is gay and fought in Iraq, and has thus returned to the states with severe PTSD. I guess God only shines on the cross-bearers. Too bad they are fighting for the freedom of all - they don't get any blessings. I don't know what other proof you really need.
Funny. I remember a different Sally Quinn. It was in the late '90s and she had a propensity to get on talk shows like Larry King and profess her distraught indignity to the sexual vulgarities of then President William Jefferson Clinton. Those were heady days in Washington for Ms. Quinn. She was cast as one of the few quintessential social goddesses of Washington. To get into one of her coveted dinner parties took a little more than the glad handing of a Christian cross necklace. The mushy father/come lately appreciative daughter story above doesn't quite mesh with the public vitriol she belched over someone else's marital mishap. I remember it left me wondering if her comfortable house in the nation's capital had any closets at all.
I spent six years on active duty as a Naval Officer, between 2000-2006, four of which were onboard ships. Every night at sea a Christian prayer was broadcast over the loudspeakers to all spaces onboard. I always found this practice to be inappropriate. I appreciate freedom of religion and freedom of belief, but this forced public prayer is very anti-secular. If the United States is founded on the principle of a strong separation between church and state, then why are prayers of any form made a ritual onboard ships? Truly, most military members are classified as Christians, but not once did I hear a Jewish or Muslim prayer spoken to the crew. Public prayer has no place onboard Navy ships. If ships establish bible study groups amongst crew members because there is interest, that is one thing, but it is another to force all sailors to listen to a prayer each night. This is a practice which should be abolished and discouraged, as it has no place in a secular state.
Unbelievable, you have time to count the personal pronouns in a person's commentary but have no time for the essentials in your life i.e. the deprogramming of your warmongering religion. And have you ever counted the personal pronouns in your own commentaries??
Sally, thank you for your honest reflections and for sharing these memories of your father. We have children who are now ages 6, 10, and 11. And, we pray for them and with them, as they are learning about what faith is to them personally. Why there is pain and suffering in our world is one of life's difficult questions. Even more than that is 'why must we all die?' Separation from those we love is the most painful of all realities. One can choose to either believe in a loving God who shares and understands our pain and longs too for it to end, or a God who is capricious and vengeful (if God is like that, why is there ANY good in this world), or no God at all. To me, it takes the highest level of 'faith' to look at the world and see it as a random coincidence, that 'something' appeared from 'nothing' without a divine cause. And, there are many (most) religions in the world that believe God is vengeful and ready to squash all of us like bugs for one misstep. Yet, the God of your father's faith understands pain, suffering and separation at its deepest levels. That cross you felt compelled to buy is the place of greatest pain ever known on this earth. God chose to love us, when he didn't need to. All he wants is for us to return that. Most of us spend our lives trying to escape the reality of pain. Perhaps God is asking us that rather than blaming him for the pain in this world, to instead walk through it, and understand that he shares it. It is a mystery that we aren't meant to completely understand. Yet, that cross your father held to without fear is what fully brought him into God's presence at his last breath. May we all be freed to embrace the reality of pain, and even in pain to see a God that weeps and suffers with us.
thank you again, Sally, for your honest thoughts. May you one day live eternally in the presence of a God who loves you, and an earthly father who has gone before you.
Sally, thank you for your honest reflections and for sharing these memories of your father. We have children who are now ages 6, 10, and 11. And, we pray for them and with them, as they are learning about what faith is to them personally. Why there is pain and suffering in our world is one of life's difficult questions. Even more than that is 'why must we all die?' Separation from those we love is the most painful of all realities. One can choose to either believe in a loving God who shares and understands our pain and longs too for it to end, or a God who is capricious and vengeful (if God is like that, why is there ANY good in this world), or no God at all. To me, it takes the highest level of 'faith' to look at the world and see it as a random coincidence, that 'something' appeared from 'nothing' without a divine cause. And, there are many (most) religions in the world that believe God is vengeful and ready to squash all of us like bugs for one misstep. Yet, the God of your father's faith understands pain, suffering and separation at its deepest levels. That cross you felt compelled to buy is the place of greatest pain ever known on this earth. God chose to love us, when he didn't need to. All he wants is for us to return that. Most of us spend our lives trying to escape the reality of pain. Perhaps God is asking us that rather than blaming him for the pain in this world, to instead walk through it, and understand that he shares it. It is a mystery that we aren't meant to completely understand. Yet, that cross your father held to without fear is what fully brought him into God's presence at his last breath. May we all be freed to embrace the reality of pain, and even in pain to see a God that weeps and suffers with us.
thank you again, Sally, for your honest thoughts. May you one day live eternally in the presence of a God who loves you, and an earthly father who has gone before you.
Faith on the front lines. A new series to address the ancient reality of war as hell. Your father, as well as mine, has survived the horror of combat. Pops would never speak of what he did or saw in France and Germany, and I asked many times. I stopped asking when he began to describe what he experienced on the beach of Normandy, but broke down in tears and silence. He was wounded twice, before they let him return home. Since Iraq, he seems to have talked more about his time in the infantry, since the air force rejected his application. We have talked about torture, and faith. How a young man of 19 years old walked down a street in France, when the shooting stopped, the soldier to his right and to his left were shot dead. There is only the devil in war. There might be a cross in your pocket or around your neck, and maybe an archangel to guide you in chaos.
My family has fought during WWI, the Irish conflict, and WWII. Army, Air Force and Marines. Some of them did not survive, others returned wounded. All were decorated.
If you are facing deployment, get intimate with your guardian angel, the only help you can possibly rely upon in hell.
note: "i" always tell me kids "Better Them Then YOU!" or "Better Material things than you" : ie Chasing a ball blindly on a city street! or watching a fellow school mate join a gang & get stabed etcc: SO:
"Survival of the fittest" is another approach!
Note: I went to Military High School {no longer in business} at "GENERAL DOUGHLASS McARTHUR Military Academy i*n Jersey: Under the old man "COL: HOAR" {pbuh} et al:
But I decided not to go to WEST_POINT {had senator & a congressman ready to sign} & suddenly felt & became a "CONSCIENCIOUS OBJECTOR" !
MY Brother "Eddy" got wounded in Cambodia via Vietnam! And OUR Dad lost all his main family in Auchwitz! And my Mother lost all the men in her immediate side via "Stalins" purge of inttellectuls! So private RYAN this is not yet close!
I joined the US Merchant Marines Instead & became a INTERNATIONAL SMUGGLER INSTEAD! i m NOW RETIRED!
Please know that "i" also lost two brothers to "heroin addiction"! And I know had they jpoined the ARMY {Military} that they wouldve been alive today! SO
As much that joining the Militray can save kids that sometimes & ironically that GOING to Jail or prison can also saves lives on most cases! Example: singing "Once i was lost: but now i am found!" similar! bUT
its Also sad to know that alot of Potential Army Soldiers {teen agers} DI needlessly via CAR_ACCFIDENTS by the THOUSANDS! nOT TO MENTION SUICIDE & DRUG USE ETC>>>
May Xtra Photons shine on ALL good HUMATE_KIND forever even when "Space_Ship" Momma Poppa Earth will also DIE in around Seven Billion years from today or we will first collide or "merge" with ANDROMEDA Galaxy in three billion years: AND:
& momma poppa Space_Ship GAIA is currently thawing_out thus coming out of a Cold_Age (FROM fourteen thousand years ago) & IS CURRENTLY ENTER A "NATURAL" hot_age {mAN MADE POLLUTION IS NOT THE CURSE NOR DANGER TODAY: IT IS THE "RELIGIOUS_POLLUTION that we EclatI_oNS MUST BE AWARE of & thus ON GURAD AGAINST!} we WILL LATER AGAIN HAVE A COLD_AGE CYCLE MOMENT STARTING In nine_thousand years!
Hip Hip Horray! Hip hip horray to our great Pre_Apocalyptarian Mr President G w BUSH et al:
"THE new NAPOLIAN OF THE MIDDLE_EAST" and elsewhere here on Space_Ship Earth! aka SS_GAIA aka SS_GEOID aka SS_TELLUS something!!!!!
VOTE: ABOLISH ALL pre_Apocalyptic MONARCHY & THEOCRACY on Space_Ship Earth first & then Enjoin via the UNITED NATIONS via the creation ofg the "O_U_R_BOOK" aka the "O_ne U_niversal R_eligion book!" hence:
Then will expiditiously cometh the "PROPHECIED" genuine WORLD_PEACE & Healings of Pre_Apocalyptic Nations & thus their Leaderships & more Holy Cosmic Good tidings will & is cometh to HUMATE_KIND {each immortal "i" is a Citizen & Denizen of THE GREAT REPUBLIC of Space_Ship Planet Earth!
WE SALUTE ALL GOOD MEN & WOMAN EQUALLY & WE LOVE EACH OTHERS CHILDREN! YA YA!
Use Braains not Force: but use force when your brain tells you too! Hint: ITs called reflects in motion!
May XTRA_PHOTONS {LIFE} shine on AMERICA & FRIENDS! WE LOVE YOU ALL!
PS: I lost my business in One_World_Trade_Center TOWER_ONE "Suite: Eighty_Four_Zero_Seven {just Six floors below where the fisrt plane hit at the North Tower!
Like HIS eCLATI_on BRETHREN(S) MARTIN LUTHER KINGS JR once sang "WE WILL OVER COME!"!! YA YA YA!
YES! The Birth of a new & better Generation of a WORLD TRADE TOWER(s) IS ACOMMING real soon near a niehborhood near you kid!
AH: LIFE {photons} IS SO BEAUTIFUL WITH Eclati_ONs(S) & never with them superstupidstitious inferior bith is a sin thinking Eclati_OFF"S {aka Potentially good Humates}!
.
First, Sally--may I call you Sally?--let me get rid of a nagging thought: one simple sentence you wrote tripped me, that was when you wrote that your father was "Episcopelian and he was also a religious man." There is something there...
What there was not much of was in your choice of a cross to send to your father, I bet you would have chosen an ankh if your father was of that ancient Egyptian religion, or worry beads, or Solomon's seal, etc., if of such faith. What "compelled" you was your need to firmed up your relationship with your father, to reach across the distance that physically separated you, and just probably to invoke the God he believes in for his protection--with that God's talisman.
Your beautiful life's anecdote proves again the power endowed to those who have faith: their belief is a life sustaining force, on individual, inter-individual, and social levels. That, be there a or many or no god at all. For this is a matter of faith, one that can respose on a deity or an ideology/philosophy or a way of life. These latter must, of course, meld and fused into one's faith IDEALLY. As happened to your father (based on what you wrote about him), and may yet happen to you ("yet" here refers to time that remains to be).
I wish it for you, as you wished it for your father.
.
The church services here in Iraq are always full, regardless of the denomination. They are also more diverse than what I've experienced back in the states.
In my experience military chaplains are the cream of the crop. They are used to dealing with people of different faiths or no faith at all, so they are very good at just listening when that is what is required. There is a marked difference between a chaplain and a civilian priest or minister. They have a way of removing the bs when addressing the congregation and relating to everyone on a personal level.
Faith makes separation from family and safety more bearable. Knowing there is a plan and purpose for everyone and everything is comforting.
The church services here in Iraq are always full, regardless of the denomination. They are also more diverse than what I've experienced back in the states.
In my experience military chaplains are the cream of the crop. They are used to dealing with people of different faiths or no faith at all, so they are very good at just listening when that is what is required. There is a marked difference between a chaplain and a civilian priest or minister. They have a way of removing the bs when addressing the congregation and relating to everyone on a personal level.
Faith makes separation from family and safety more bearable. Knowing there is a plan and purpose for everyone and everything is comforting.
Ms. Quinn--
A very nice heartfelt tribute to your father. Our veterans deserve this day of rememberance. You had just enough money to buy that cross and did so and then your father kept it all those years. Just a coincidence ? God acts in mysterious ways.
NOTE: Under Eclati_ON LAW(S) some "SINS" {aka "FORBIDDEN_ACTS"} are "UN_FORGIVING!" And Eclati_ONs "work_out" their own SALVATION as mentioned seq passim! Ya Ya!
"i" Salute ALL ekclati_ONs & doff my hat_off in effigy for each & every HUMATE & those whom have DIED YET never died in vain!
Behold: Bio_Finite Death is never Transfinite Death!
Wherefore: We Ecklati_Ons know that WE_THE_PEOPLE {HUMATES of SPACE_sHIP momma pappa GAIA} was never created nor can WE humtes ever be destroyed! Just try to be nice & enjoy LIFE {A MIRACLE in motion & zero SIN in PHOTON essence form in ITs (eclati) own right & thus zero sin}!
All Comments (62)
Sally:
I read your column, "Congress' bullying pulpit" in the January 2, 2008, edition of The Palm Beach Post. How refreshing to see someone stand up to the way too powerful, Christian religion.
I was born and raised a Catholic. I spent first grade in public school. Against my wishes, my mother enrolled me in Catholic school from second grade on. It's strange how as a young child, I could sense something wrong.
Well, I liked going to Catholic school at first. Since I came from a dysfunctional family, Catholic School fulfilled a need. I was young and impressionable and gobbled up every bit of propaganda that was pumped into my mind. I needed to belong, even in a subservient position. I was proud to be an altar boy, (the first in my grade, at the time) and felt good about receiving the sacraments. I believed fervently, everthing that I was told. I felt very secure, knowing that I was a good, obedient, Catholic.
As I grew older and was beginning to be capable to form my own views on what I was being taught, I was starting to see the truth of what the Catholics were teaching. Gradually, I could no longer accept the lies I was being taught. I was still too young for my mind to put in proper perspective my concern about my education. Being in a very catholic environment, and with the brainwashing I had received, I felt extreme guilt for doubting the "very pious" Catholic Church. I felt like I was the heathen that I had been taught about. I felt like I was going to hell for not believing all the stories which were in fact, very unbelievable stories. I could not discuss this with anybody. I would have been embarrassed and ashamed for anybody to know that I felt the way I did. I became a closet atheist saddled with inner turmoil. After years of vacillating between guilt and truth, I finally freed myself of the catholic imposed demons that I had.
The Catholic Church did not care about me or my, "salvation". It was only interested in power and control. I was just a pawn. It had absolutely no qualms about filling my head with lies. I had as role models, quirky, wrinkled, neurotic old nuns whose only station in life was to worship Jesus. They didn't know anything about life except to devote their entire life to serving Jesus. These were my teachers. They were in a different world, otherwise they would not have become nuns. It should be considered a crime of child abuse to expose young, vulnerable, children to people like that. I was only taught three things, incessantly... I owe everything to Jesus Christ, my saviour, who died on the cross to save me from my sins; If you're not Catholic, you are going to hell; and I am a sinner. Although I had a good mind, I did poorly in school. I was disruptive and disobedient because I had no respect for the nuns or the priests and knew they were lying to me,and certainly sensed that I was getting a poor education. It was not until I got out of school and broke free of the Catholic hold on me, thatI was able to develop myself. The only productive year of education I had, was in first grade...the only year I spent in public sahool
If it were a fair world, based on fairness, and not power, there would not be enough money in the world that the Catholic Church could compensate me, to atone for the damage they did to me.
January 9, 2008 7:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 9, 2008 07:05
Dear Sally
My response is belated. I must admit that it has been somewhat difficult for me to find the right words to respond to the honest and touching personal account of how you came to be an atheist as a child, about your great love for your father, and about his deep religious faith and his prayer that you would become a Christian.
One thing becomes immediately clear – you were an extremely sensitive child who cared about the suffering of soldiers, the pain involved in war for all concerned, and the circumstances of your life were directly affected by the war. Evil after all baffles and confounds the most iron hearted of believers, and the evil of WW II is unparalleled in human history. So it is not at all surprising that it left a young child like you in despair.
People react differently to suffering: it makes some deepen their faith, it makes others lose theirs. Who can say why some react in one way and the others in another? Life is a mystery indeed, and equally mysterious are God's ways of leading people to Him!
The gift of the cross you made to your father with the money given to buy candy has come back to you a million fold. Your father’s prayer may not be answered in the way he meant it – not yet - you becoming a Christian, but the risk you took hosting an On Faith forum on The Washington Post is an answer to your dad’s prayer for the benefits of this forum are incalculable. Your faith journey is ended only when you breathe your last. Who can say what is yet to come? You need only remain open to the leading of the Spirit of God as you are now and He will take care of the rest.
I feel confident that your dad’s prayers for you to become a Christian is sure to be answered in God’s time and in God’s way. I keep you in my prayers too. And thanks once again for sharing something so deeply personal and thank you for the great work.
Best wishes
Soja
November 29, 2007 2:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 29, 2007 02:26
Ed Paradis: I'm glad you found comfort when you needed it.
You say, "There are no none belivers in combat, I don't care where you are from, at one time in your combat life you WILL pray to God for his help."
But there are in fact "atheists in foxholes" - they are good soldiers, just like you, but they don't believe in god. Please check out http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/
November 14, 2007 11:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 11:53
Sally, this was especially touching. I grew up in a dysfunctional military family in Canada... church was important but not much religion. Moving out as a young teenager, I spent a lot of time reading every kind of eastern philosophy, spent a dozen plus years as a Scientologist and eventually became a Christian and so often now feel connected to my childhood. There was a bit of foundation there after all. Most days I spend some time praying for my father, the retired soldier who doesn't believe... and for soldiers everywhere who sacrifice more than I think God should ask of them and their families. Mostly I just thank Him that they are there. Today I'm thanking Him for your dad too.
Thanks for sharing.
November 14, 2007 11:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 11:40
Sally, this was especially touching. I grew up in a dysfunctional military family in Canada... church was important but not much religion. Moving out as a young teenager, I spent a lot of time reading every kind of eastern philosophy, spent a dozen plus years as a Scientologist and eventually became a Christian and so often now feel connected to my childhood. There was a bit of foundation there after all. Most days I spend some time praying for my father, the retired soldier who doesn't believe... and for soldiers everywhere who sacrifice more than I think God should ask of them and their families. Mostly I just thank Him that they are there. Today I'm thanking Him for your dad too.
Thanks for sharing.
November 14, 2007 11:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 11:38
Sally, this was especially touching. I grew up in a dysfunctional military family in Canada... church was important but not much religion. Moving out as a young teenager, I spent a lot of time reading every kind of eastern philosophy, spent a dozen plus years as a Scientologist and eventually became a Christian and so often now feel connected to my childhood. There was a bit of foundation there after all. Most days I spend some time praying for my father, the retired soldier who doesn't believe... and for soldiers everywhere who sacrifice more than I think God should ask of them and their families. Mostly I just thank Him that they are there. Today I'm thanking Him for your dad too.
Thanks for sharing.
November 14, 2007 11:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 11:38
I was with the 101st in Viet Nam. I had been born a Cath, and had lost my way while over there. I realy was looking for some thing to beleive in.
We had a Medic who was a conscientious obecter for religious resons, I had so much repect for him it wasn't funny. He would talk with me about the Bible all the time. He would talk with me every time he had a chance.
Then the day I was wounded I remember what he said to me, I had made peace with my God on 3 different ocations that day. I found God on that day and have not lost sight of him since.
There are no none belivers in combat, I don't care where you are from, at one time in your combat life you WILL pray to God for his help. Thank You Ed Paradis B/2/501st 101st Airborne
November 14, 2007 11:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 11:10
Here's my very first personal criticism of you - and it's very heartfelt:
You don't seem like a very nice person.
And here's a question:
Are you Christian?
November 13, 2007 10:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 22:22
Poor E Favorite-
You are in bondage to this forum. Why are you frantic to get the next and last post? You know the contents of your own heart. I do not bear false witness. But you (an atheist) are compelled to make an accusation. (belligerent and biased bigot?)
Take a break. Try very hard not to compulsively "have to answer" this post. Walk away from the computer. Break the addiction. It's still a beautiful world. Get some help.
Bye-Bye.
November 13, 2007 5:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 17:21
Theophila: "I don't need to find your old posts"
No you don't, but I think you do have some obligation not to make accusations without backing them up. I think that might fall under "bearing false witness."
I like to think people reading here can easily see who has tried to draw whom into an argument.
The whole point of this forum is to discuss religious views. Of course there will be differences in perspective among us.
November 13, 2007 4:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 16:22
Ultimately, to those who reject the God of the Bible, and the truths contained therein, there is nothing but despair to look forward to when the chips are down.
Secular humanism requires no courage, seeks no sacrifice, expects no self-abnegation. When the chips ARE down, ie. in combat, conceited lone ranger types only looking out for no.1 are not who you want to watch your 6:00.
November 13, 2007 3:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 15:59
E Favorite-
I am a reader here. My life is too active to post regularly. I don't need to find your old posts. You know your feelings and you know what brings you back to post daily hoping to find a Christian to ridicule, criticize, and draw into an argument.
November 13, 2007 3:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 15:45
Theophila - yes - I'm aware my posts are archived.
If you have some of them handy, perhaps you could post or link to the ones that you think show me to be "belligerent, biased, bigoted and brainless” and an “@ss.” Also, does this mean that you don't think my post in this particular section reflects me in my usual negative light?
Are you a regular poster as well as a reader? I don't recognize your name. Have you gone by another name here?
If so, please let me know who you are.
Thanks
November 13, 2007 3:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 15:16
E Favorite-
You've been a regular poster and I am a regular reader at ON FAITH. May I remind you your posts are archived?
Best wishes.
November 13, 2007 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 14:56
Theophilia - I don't hate Christianity. I'm critical of it and there are also many aspects of it I love - the beautiful music, the lovely architecture, the warm community that some churches offer. I'd like to see Christianity survive with all of that intact, but without continued espousing of belief in invisible supernatural events and beings.
Please notice that I didn’t personally attack you or Allen Clark. You, meanwhile, have called me “belligerent, biased, bigoted and brainless” and an “@ass.”
I’m glad we both have the opportunity to discuss our opinions and feelings openly. We have our secular constitution to thank for that. And I assume neither of us would want to live in a theocracy, where critical remarks about the state religion could result in execution, instead of just a string of insults.
November 13, 2007 1:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 13:18
I was in the desert. I will talk about it because i am a woman and a mother and women talk about things- it doesn't mean I'm a faker.
I prayed daily, read my scriptures daily. When things got too hard, I prayed about what to do and the message I got was to read the scriptures morning and night. I know my prayers were often answered- for my safety, for my family back home, for my comrades, even for me to find someone to be best buddies with. I could not have made it without believing in a heaven, in a kindly God. When I came home my life really hit the fan- marriage problems, we needed a new roof, no money, daughter getting married, son going to college, my sister died of cancer, the refrigerator died too...I just wanted to get back on the plane and go back to the war. But my faith got me through it and four years later my life is not problem-free, but I'm not looking for my heaven here on earth. I'm just looking to endure to the end in living a simple and honest life, serving my fellow man, using my abilities the best I can and loving my family. Unto each life some rain must fall. God doesn't look upon death the way we do, with fear. He sees it as a way to lift us out of this morass.
November 13, 2007 11:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 11:31
I was in the desert. I will talk about it because i am a woman and a mother and women talk about things- it doesn't mean I'm a faker.
I prayed daily, read my scriptures daily. When things got too hard, I prayed about what to do and the message I got was to read the scriptures morning and night. I know my prayers were often answered- for my safety, for my family back home, for my comrades, even for me to find someone to be best buddies with. I could not have made it without believing in a heaven, in a kindly God. When I came home my life really hit the fan- marriage problems, we needed a new roof, no money, daughter getting married, son going to college, my sister died of cancer, the refrigerator died too...I just wanted to get back on the plane and go back to the war. But my faith got me through it and four years later my life is not problem-free, but I'm not looking for my heaven here on earth. I'm just looking to endure to the end in living a simple and honest life, serving my fellow man, using my abilities the best I can and loving my family. Unto each life some rain must fall. God doesn't look upon death the way we do, with fear. He sees it as a way to lift us out of this morass.
November 13, 2007 11:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 11:29
I was in the desert. I will talk about it because i am a woman and a mother and women talk about things- it doesn't mean I'm a faker.
I prayed daily, read my scriptures daily. When things got too hard, I prayed about what to do and the message I got was to read the scriptures morning and night. I know my prayers were often answered- for my safety, for my family back home, for my comrades, even for me to find someone to be best buddies with. I could not have made it without believing in a heaven, in a kindly God. When I came home my life really hit the fan- marriage problems, we needed a new roof, no money, daughter getting married, son going to college, my sister died of cancer, the refrigerator died too...I just wanted to get back on the plane and go back to the war. But my faith got me through it and four years later my life is not problem-free, but I'm not looking for my heaven here on earth. I'm just looking to endure to the end in living a simple and honest life, serving my fellow man, using my abilities the best I can and loving my family. Unto each life some rain must fall. God doesn't look upon death the way we do, with fear. He sees it as a way to lift us out of this morass.
November 13, 2007 11:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 11:29
E Favorite-
Aren't you (in the smallest way) thankful that you live in freedom and have the opportunity almost daily to post your hatred of Christians and Christianity with no fear or loss?
Would you really prefer living under a totalitarian regime (as many are suffering under as you read)?
Today I celebrate your ability to make an @ss of yourself on a public board and I thank the men and women who have made the sacrifice to give you that right.
God works in mysterious ways. Your ways are easily predicted: belligerent, biased, bigoted and brainless.
November 13, 2007 9:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 09:31
Allan Clark: "But today my faith is stronger than ever and my understanding of my God deeper because I understand the free will allowed by my God and the great eternal struggle of good versus evil."
To me this sounds like the ultimate rationalization.
Ken Chandler - I notice you have a lot of your statements in quotes, without mentioning who is being quoted. Are you distancing yourself from these ideas?
Even when you supposedly are speaking for yourself, it sounds rote: "...He gave His only begotten Son to live a perfect example for us, be unjustly accused, and to take on His shoulders the penalties for sin, shed His blood in payment and die for us (in our places)."
Of course, I recognize this as standard Christian teaching, which even as a believer didn't make sense to me. How does one person's death atone for another's let alone for the entire human race. And what needed atoning for? Eve eating the apple? It seems like overkill. Plus, Jesus suffers a few hours, is dead only 3 days, then goes to live in heaven forever.
Meanwhile, many others endure a lifetime of suffering, after which some of them go to hell forever (according to Christian doctrine) either because they never knew about Jesus or they declined to accept him as their savior (in some cases because they were born into other religions.)
God works in mysterious ways? I’d say, so do people when trying to apply ancient stories to current life.
November 13, 2007 8:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 08:51
The faith of our fathers and mothers is the greatest gift they can give us. It's an everlasting gift. When they choose to serve they give of themselves for those they know and those they don't. Each generation grows either understanding that faith or never recieving the gift. As we look on the atrocities of man against man it is easy to say "How could a God allow this?". What we should be asking is "God forgive us for letting it get so bad and thank you (God) for giving us free choice." God never made us to be robots, but to become a part of His family. That's so precious that He gave His only begotten Son to live a perfect example for us, be unjustly accused, and to take on His shoulders the penalties for sin, shed His blood in payment and die for us (in our places). It's His ultimate love and sacrifice just as the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine sheds their blood to bring a freedom for us and those we don't know. "Without the shedding of blood there is no freedom." "The only sacrifice worth giving was given by Jesus Christ when He shed his blood for your soul and by the GI who shed his blood for your freedom." As your family sacrificed so much, see in their sacrifice that a loving God allows us the freedom of choice. We have that gift He's offering to spend eternity with Him or we can reject it. Just like those who rejected Him committed such atrocities, we have the freedom to stop atrocities as well as the responsibility. It isn't God's fault that man kills man - it's man and his responsibility. It isn't God's fault man didn't protect man. It's up to us to do by God's example and thank Him for our freedoms and accept His gift. Your father did and set such a wonderful example in his sacrifice. Look to your father's sacrifice in freeing those oppressed and thank God for him - I know I do. Think upon the good of God and ask Him to show you His love and the good He really does do in providing Godly men and women to sacrifice for all of us. And thank you for the message of your father that you've written. May God bless you and yours.
November 13, 2007 8:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 08:14
Just off by 40 years above post. I was wounded June 17, 1967. Showing an "old soldier's" age.
November 13, 2007 8:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 08:08
Everyone attempts to relate to those who write what we read and also to agree/disagree with the ideas expressed. Sally, I too as an Army "brat" was in that Tokyo General Hospital in 1952 in the pediatric ward with a stomach ailment. I too looked thru the hallway latticework at the men residing in the head injury ward. It was horrible.I still went to West Point and still volunteered for Vietnam and ended up a double leg amputee. But today my faith is stronger than ever and my understanding of my God deeper because I understand the free will allowed by my God and the great eternal struggle of good versus evil. My healing journey and my lay ministry to all our warriors is expressed at www.combatfaith.com. God allows the pain but does not ordain it. Because it is there and there are bad people who perpetrate it does not detract from the goodness nor the strength of my God to stop it, but the ultimate adversary of all mankind is the ultimate perpetrator and people such as General Quinn and I went off to fight the bad guys egged on by bad principles and emotions and motivations. This day after Veterans Day I am proud to be a veteran who fought against evil and I thank my God that I was blessed to be allowed to live on after that June 17, 2007 day at Dak To in Vietnam.
November 13, 2007 7:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 07:47
Thank you very much for printing that article. I think it was very well done. I know from my own experience that not everyone believes. Because I had a roomate in school in Great Lakes that found it rather interesting that I prayed every night before I would go to sleep. Also I was the Catholic Lay Leader a few times because I was on a ship that was too small for a Chaplain. Again thank you very much for writing that story and keep up the great work.
Thomas J. Steinke
November 13, 2007 6:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 06:19
Garbage Collector,
Because I am a "pwtfft". At least the Sisters of St. Francis told me so.
Apparently you did not get a good performance review!!!
November 12, 2007 5:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 17:47
Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:
How come you are an ugly, wingie, talking, thing?? Oh well into the bag.
November 12, 2007 4:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 16:18
Read the Bible lady. God killed, yes killed, nations of people. But that's not the God you serve, is it?
November 12, 2007 3:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 15:54
Read the Bible lady. God killed, yes killed, nations of people. But that's not the God you serve, is it?
November 12, 2007 3:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 15:52
Read the Bible lady. God killed, yes killed, nations of people. But that's not the God you serve, is it?
November 12, 2007 3:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 15:51
Read the Bible lady. God killed, yes killed, nations of people. But that's not the God you serve, is it?
November 12, 2007 3:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 15:49
Be Gone,
I see Satan is still your webmaster. How come you believe in ugly, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingies but not the pretty version??
November 12, 2007 3:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 15:07
Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,
Hmmm, still not doing the essentials of life i.e. deprogramming your warmongering religion but simply deflecting your obvious problem.
November 12, 2007 3:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 15:03
Religion + Government = Square peg + Round Hole
War = Forcing Square peg into Round hole using soldier's heads as hammers
End "official" religion = End war
God wouldn't be caught dead on a battle field but those who claim to represent God requisition the battle field in the name of God. It's really Devil they represent. Ms Sally Fileds knew better well ahead of the curve, avoided the torture of Sunday school.
For the rest of you students there's http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul with the usual warning, don't expect to get much for your soul because the market is flooded. The big money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell and paid by the multitudes. The money on the plate plate is Devil's fee for the souls of his ministers.
The road to hell is paved with the corpses of dead soldiers who died on the battle field. They died in the name of God while uttering the word God. Only too late do they realize it was Devil that answered their call. When it comes to kill or be killed Devil is the only reliable supernatural being.
November 12, 2007 1:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 13:03
interesting comments caesar-
i watched bill moyers the other day, he had thomas cahill on and the discussion was humna cruelty.
bill asked mr cahill if there were any corollaries that could be drawn between the fall of the roman empire and american decline-
(its a question from bill moyers folks, not a comment on the steength of america)
and he answered that the similarity exists in that the roman empire began its decline when the poor and middle class were overburdened taxed to support the state, and the rich werent taxed at all.
i thought it was pretty apt.
November 12, 2007 11:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 11:52
Caesar,
Time to emigrate to anywhere other the USA??? How about the Islamic terror theocracy of Iran???
November 12, 2007 11:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 11:34
Random thoughts on SQ's essay - Totally non-religious, but with the same loving sentiments:
1.As a child, I gave my mother a garish Christmas tree pin and my father a nice set of cufflinks. Along the way, I forgot I'd given them these gifts. They never forgot, though and later told me that they thought of me every time they wore them. I have them now.
2.When my mother died, the funeral home director placed a rosary in her hands – something she was never seen holding when she was alive. One family member tucked a pack of cigarettes and a deck of cards in the coffin – much more appropriate mementos of her life.
November 12, 2007 11:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 11:15
test
November 12, 2007 10:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 10:48
Soldiers should not be forced through unjust pressure, to enter into conflicts which are not justified,such as Iraq,Afghanistan,which having brought but death destruction,on all sides.Yet by far the more on Iraq as Afghanistan,which venture into many hundreds of thousands being dead....the failings of such ill thougt ventures, must be put at the door of political parties,on both sides of the channel.There be those in the military,whom still retaining some working brain cells warned, the invasion of IRAQ as AfGHANISTN be folly,they being brushed aside by the texas cowboys,whom in had a political mentallity equal to the latter leaders of the Roman Empire. Becoming rotten with corruption,unable to hold the Empire together,but through military brutality.Which only speeded its decline,as the USA,we see same patern a bringing its downfall, political corruption, deceit, fraud, the nations domestic as international standing be dire.. the cold war with Russia, replaced by the threat of terrorism, both used as an cover,to avoid facing the appalling state of American domestic problems,as has long since be unfit to represent freedom, as democracy, on the internation stage....Over time USA govts having abandoned serving domestic as international law, such being replaced by military might, the result, an trail of destruction death worldwide....
November 12, 2007 10:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 10:21
As a United States airman and a history major, I have come to appreciate the way that faith has played a major part in the survival of troops in dangerous situations. Faith helped many people in times of difficulty, in POW camps, and in the face of horrible atrocities such as the Holocaust. Faith provided an excellent relief from the burden of hopelessness, even if a troop didn't survive. Faith helped many.
Of course, so did morphine.
November 12, 2007 8:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 08:51
Ah I see, all the bad stuff is the Devil and all the good stuff is God. Glad we cleared that up. No gray area there, eh? Devil = war. Crosses = God. Funny, I have a friend who is a Satanist (says it on his dog tags) who was lucky enough to be stationed in Germany (he's a computer geek), then again I have another friend who is gay and fought in Iraq, and has thus returned to the states with severe PTSD. I guess God only shines on the cross-bearers. Too bad they are fighting for the freedom of all - they don't get any blessings. I don't know what other proof you really need.
November 12, 2007 7:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 07:55
Funny. I remember a different Sally Quinn. It was in the late '90s and she had a propensity to get on talk shows like Larry King and profess her distraught indignity to the sexual vulgarities of then President William Jefferson Clinton. Those were heady days in Washington for Ms. Quinn. She was cast as one of the few quintessential social goddesses of Washington. To get into one of her coveted dinner parties took a little more than the glad handing of a Christian cross necklace. The mushy father/come lately appreciative daughter story above doesn't quite mesh with the public vitriol she belched over someone else's marital mishap. I remember it left me wondering if her comfortable house in the nation's capital had any closets at all.
November 12, 2007 4:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 04:17
I spent six years on active duty as a Naval Officer, between 2000-2006, four of which were onboard ships. Every night at sea a Christian prayer was broadcast over the loudspeakers to all spaces onboard. I always found this practice to be inappropriate. I appreciate freedom of religion and freedom of belief, but this forced public prayer is very anti-secular. If the United States is founded on the principle of a strong separation between church and state, then why are prayers of any form made a ritual onboard ships? Truly, most military members are classified as Christians, but not once did I hear a Jewish or Muslim prayer spoken to the crew. Public prayer has no place onboard Navy ships. If ships establish bible study groups amongst crew members because there is interest, that is one thing, but it is another to force all sailors to listen to a prayer each night. This is a practice which should be abolished and discouraged, as it has no place in a secular state.
November 11, 2007 11:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 23:25
Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,
Unbelievable, you have time to count the personal pronouns in a person's commentary but have no time for the essentials in your life i.e. the deprogramming of your warmongering religion. And have you ever counted the personal pronouns in your own commentaries??
November 11, 2007 10:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 22:06
Sally, thank you for your honest reflections and for sharing these memories of your father. We have children who are now ages 6, 10, and 11. And, we pray for them and with them, as they are learning about what faith is to them personally. Why there is pain and suffering in our world is one of life's difficult questions. Even more than that is 'why must we all die?' Separation from those we love is the most painful of all realities. One can choose to either believe in a loving God who shares and understands our pain and longs too for it to end, or a God who is capricious and vengeful (if God is like that, why is there ANY good in this world), or no God at all. To me, it takes the highest level of 'faith' to look at the world and see it as a random coincidence, that 'something' appeared from 'nothing' without a divine cause. And, there are many (most) religions in the world that believe God is vengeful and ready to squash all of us like bugs for one misstep. Yet, the God of your father's faith understands pain, suffering and separation at its deepest levels. That cross you felt compelled to buy is the place of greatest pain ever known on this earth. God chose to love us, when he didn't need to. All he wants is for us to return that. Most of us spend our lives trying to escape the reality of pain. Perhaps God is asking us that rather than blaming him for the pain in this world, to instead walk through it, and understand that he shares it. It is a mystery that we aren't meant to completely understand. Yet, that cross your father held to without fear is what fully brought him into God's presence at his last breath. May we all be freed to embrace the reality of pain, and even in pain to see a God that weeps and suffers with us.
thank you again, Sally, for your honest thoughts. May you one day live eternally in the presence of a God who loves you, and an earthly father who has gone before you.
November 11, 2007 6:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 18:48
Sally, thank you for your honest reflections and for sharing these memories of your father. We have children who are now ages 6, 10, and 11. And, we pray for them and with them, as they are learning about what faith is to them personally. Why there is pain and suffering in our world is one of life's difficult questions. Even more than that is 'why must we all die?' Separation from those we love is the most painful of all realities. One can choose to either believe in a loving God who shares and understands our pain and longs too for it to end, or a God who is capricious and vengeful (if God is like that, why is there ANY good in this world), or no God at all. To me, it takes the highest level of 'faith' to look at the world and see it as a random coincidence, that 'something' appeared from 'nothing' without a divine cause. And, there are many (most) religions in the world that believe God is vengeful and ready to squash all of us like bugs for one misstep. Yet, the God of your father's faith understands pain, suffering and separation at its deepest levels. That cross you felt compelled to buy is the place of greatest pain ever known on this earth. God chose to love us, when he didn't need to. All he wants is for us to return that. Most of us spend our lives trying to escape the reality of pain. Perhaps God is asking us that rather than blaming him for the pain in this world, to instead walk through it, and understand that he shares it. It is a mystery that we aren't meant to completely understand. Yet, that cross your father held to without fear is what fully brought him into God's presence at his last breath. May we all be freed to embrace the reality of pain, and even in pain to see a God that weeps and suffers with us.
thank you again, Sally, for your honest thoughts. May you one day live eternally in the presence of a God who loves you, and an earthly father who has gone before you.
November 11, 2007 6:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 18:46
Faith on the front lines. A new series to address the ancient reality of war as hell. Your father, as well as mine, has survived the horror of combat. Pops would never speak of what he did or saw in France and Germany, and I asked many times. I stopped asking when he began to describe what he experienced on the beach of Normandy, but broke down in tears and silence. He was wounded twice, before they let him return home. Since Iraq, he seems to have talked more about his time in the infantry, since the air force rejected his application. We have talked about torture, and faith. How a young man of 19 years old walked down a street in France, when the shooting stopped, the soldier to his right and to his left were shot dead. There is only the devil in war. There might be a cross in your pocket or around your neck, and maybe an archangel to guide you in chaos.
My family has fought during WWI, the Irish conflict, and WWII. Army, Air Force and Marines. Some of them did not survive, others returned wounded. All were decorated.
If you are facing deployment, get intimate with your guardian angel, the only help you can possibly rely upon in hell.
November 11, 2007 6:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 18:07
Correction: "Hip hip hor_ray to OUR aAPOCALYPTARIAN" President & Commander in Chief Mr G W BUSH et al!
November 11, 2007 5:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 17:59
Hello Sistar(s) S A L L Y : et al:
Huggs & kisses to all!
note: "i" always tell me kids "Better Them Then YOU!" or "Better Material things than you" : ie Chasing a ball blindly on a city street! or watching a fellow school mate join a gang & get stabed etcc: SO:
"Survival of the fittest" is another approach!
Note: I went to Military High School {no longer in business} at "GENERAL DOUGHLASS McARTHUR Military Academy i*n Jersey: Under the old man "COL: HOAR" {pbuh} et al:
But I decided not to go to WEST_POINT {had senator & a congressman ready to sign} & suddenly felt & became a "CONSCIENCIOUS OBJECTOR" !
MY Brother "Eddy" got wounded in Cambodia via Vietnam! And OUR Dad lost all his main family in Auchwitz! And my Mother lost all the men in her immediate side via "Stalins" purge of inttellectuls! So private RYAN this is not yet close!
I joined the US Merchant Marines Instead & became a INTERNATIONAL SMUGGLER INSTEAD! i m NOW RETIRED!
Please know that "i" also lost two brothers to "heroin addiction"! And I know had they jpoined the ARMY {Military} that they wouldve been alive today! SO
As much that joining the Militray can save kids that sometimes & ironically that GOING to Jail or prison can also saves lives on most cases! Example: singing "Once i was lost: but now i am found!" similar! bUT
its Also sad to know that alot of Potential Army Soldiers {teen agers} DI needlessly via CAR_ACCFIDENTS by the THOUSANDS! nOT TO MENTION SUICIDE & DRUG USE ETC>>>
May Xtra Photons shine on ALL good HUMATE_KIND forever even when "Space_Ship" Momma Poppa Earth will also DIE in around Seven Billion years from today or we will first collide or "merge" with ANDROMEDA Galaxy in three billion years: AND:
& momma poppa Space_Ship GAIA is currently thawing_out thus coming out of a Cold_Age (FROM fourteen thousand years ago) & IS CURRENTLY ENTER A "NATURAL" hot_age {mAN MADE POLLUTION IS NOT THE CURSE NOR DANGER TODAY: IT IS THE "RELIGIOUS_POLLUTION that we EclatI_oNS MUST BE AWARE of & thus ON GURAD AGAINST!} we WILL LATER AGAIN HAVE A COLD_AGE CYCLE MOMENT STARTING In nine_thousand years!
Hip Hip Horray! Hip hip horray to our great Pre_Apocalyptarian Mr President G w BUSH et al:
"THE new NAPOLIAN OF THE MIDDLE_EAST" and elsewhere here on Space_Ship Earth! aka SS_GAIA aka SS_GEOID aka SS_TELLUS something!!!!!
VOTE: ABOLISH ALL pre_Apocalyptic MONARCHY & THEOCRACY on Space_Ship Earth first & then Enjoin via the UNITED NATIONS via the creation ofg the "O_U_R_BOOK" aka the "O_ne U_niversal R_eligion book!" hence:
Then will expiditiously cometh the "PROPHECIED" genuine WORLD_PEACE & Healings of Pre_Apocalyptic Nations & thus their Leaderships & more Holy Cosmic Good tidings will & is cometh to HUMATE_KIND {each immortal "i" is a Citizen & Denizen of THE GREAT REPUBLIC of Space_Ship Planet Earth!
WE SALUTE ALL GOOD MEN & WOMAN EQUALLY & WE LOVE EACH OTHERS CHILDREN! YA YA!
Use Braains not Force: but use force when your brain tells you too! Hint: ITs called reflects in motion!
May XTRA_PHOTONS {LIFE} shine on AMERICA & FRIENDS! WE LOVE YOU ALL!
PS: I lost my business in One_World_Trade_Center TOWER_ONE "Suite: Eighty_Four_Zero_Seven {just Six floors below where the fisrt plane hit at the North Tower!
Like HIS eCLATI_on BRETHREN(S) MARTIN LUTHER KINGS JR once sang "WE WILL OVER COME!"!! YA YA YA!
YES! The Birth of a new & better Generation of a WORLD TRADE TOWER(s) IS ACOMMING real soon near a niehborhood near you kid!
AH: LIFE {photons} IS SO BEAUTIFUL WITH Eclati_ONs(S) & never with them superstupidstitious inferior bith is a sin thinking Eclati_OFF"S {aka Potentially good Humates}!
PEACE_SAALAM_SHOLOM! YA YA YO!
November 11, 2007 5:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 17:28
.
First, Sally--may I call you Sally?--let me get rid of a nagging thought: one simple sentence you wrote tripped me, that was when you wrote that your father was "Episcopelian and he was also a religious man." There is something there...
What there was not much of was in your choice of a cross to send to your father, I bet you would have chosen an ankh if your father was of that ancient Egyptian religion, or worry beads, or Solomon's seal, etc., if of such faith. What "compelled" you was your need to firmed up your relationship with your father, to reach across the distance that physically separated you, and just probably to invoke the God he believes in for his protection--with that God's talisman.
Your beautiful life's anecdote proves again the power endowed to those who have faith: their belief is a life sustaining force, on individual, inter-individual, and social levels. That, be there a or many or no god at all. For this is a matter of faith, one that can respose on a deity or an ideology/philosophy or a way of life. These latter must, of course, meld and fused into one's faith IDEALLY. As happened to your father (based on what you wrote about him), and may yet happen to you ("yet" here refers to time that remains to be).
I wish it for you, as you wished it for your father.
.
November 11, 2007 4:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 16:10
Mike D.
Saying a special prayer for you today.
Thank you for your service to our country.
November 11, 2007 4:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 16:05
The church services here in Iraq are always full, regardless of the denomination. They are also more diverse than what I've experienced back in the states.
In my experience military chaplains are the cream of the crop. They are used to dealing with people of different faiths or no faith at all, so they are very good at just listening when that is what is required. There is a marked difference between a chaplain and a civilian priest or minister. They have a way of removing the bs when addressing the congregation and relating to everyone on a personal level.
Faith makes separation from family and safety more bearable. Knowing there is a plan and purpose for everyone and everything is comforting.
-US Marine
November 11, 2007 3:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 15:54
The church services here in Iraq are always full, regardless of the denomination. They are also more diverse than what I've experienced back in the states.
In my experience military chaplains are the cream of the crop. They are used to dealing with people of different faiths or no faith at all, so they are very good at just listening when that is what is required. There is a marked difference between a chaplain and a civilian priest or minister. They have a way of removing the bs when addressing the congregation and relating to everyone on a personal level.
Faith makes separation from family and safety more bearable. Knowing there is a plan and purpose for everyone and everything is comforting.
November 11, 2007 3:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 15:52
Ms. Quinn--
A very nice heartfelt tribute to your father. Our veterans deserve this day of rememberance. You had just enough money to buy that cross and did so and then your father kept it all those years. Just a coincidence ? God acts in mysterious ways.
November 11, 2007 3:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 15:51
Correction:
The "Vatican_City" of the "Roman Catholic Church" is the center of "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" and "THE FATHER OF A PEDAPHILIA" City!
vote: (( Peace_Love_Rock_n_Roll_n_Rap Mitt ROMNEY for Prez YEA! Thanks fellow ECKlati_ONS))
NOTE: Under Eclati_ON LAW(S) some "SINS" {aka "FORBIDDEN_ACTS"} are "UN_FORGIVING!" And Eclati_ONs "work_out" their own SALVATION as mentioned seq passim! Ya Ya!
"i" Salute ALL ekclati_ONs & doff my hat_off in effigy for each & every HUMATE & those whom have DIED YET never died in vain!
Behold: Bio_Finite Death is never Transfinite Death!
Wherefore: We Ecklati_Ons know that WE_THE_PEOPLE {HUMATES of SPACE_sHIP momma pappa GAIA} was never created nor can WE humtes ever be destroyed! Just try to be nice & enjoy LIFE {A MIRACLE in motion & zero SIN in PHOTON essence form in ITs (eclati) own right & thus zero sin}!
November 11, 2007 2:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 14:23
Read JOZEVZ carefully kids, if you can get through it.
This is your brain on drugs. Beware.
November 11, 2007 2:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 11, 2007 14:05
Oooppps!
HARK: