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I am not an advocate of shopping around for a fellowship or a denomination with the goal of finding one which gives me a warmer, fuzzier feeling. But I do believe that it is wise to select a church whose beliefs and practices square with God's Word.

So though I attend a Southern Baptist congregation, as the closest I can find to what I believe the Bible teaches, I am a non-demominational. Why? Because the Apostle Paul inveighs against parties within the Body of Christ ("...what, is Christ divided?") and says "there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism." He even refused a request for a letter of recommendation, pointing instead to his converts as his "letter, written not on tablets of stone but on human hearts." What does this say about 'moving one's letter of membership"?

I am afraid that some have made baptism an instrument of church polity, instead of the witness to the world of our death to the world and our identification with the resurrection of Jesus. Nothing in scripture gives credence to the use of baptism to identify with a congregation or a denomination, to get one's name on a church role, to be allowed to vote, etc.

So tradition, or denominational distinctives, can be a snare, when they lead us away from the models portrayed in scripture.

After reading many negative posts concerning religion , especially ones feeling religion exploits people, I feel I must witness that I received minimal religious instruction as a child and at age fourteen had a genuine "Damascus Road" experience. I literally experienced God communicating to me that my sinful orientation was in process of destroying me, that if I would choose the life path of Love and Peace, He would be my guide to the end of my path leading to Him.

I experienced visions accompanying this spirit to spirit communication, kind of "show & tell" .

I experienced, briefly, the end of my path, being suspended in an oceanic golden Light that was filled with emotions of being "Home" at last, of indescribable Love bathing me, of fulfillment, peace, & joy.

The whole experience came out of the blue, I was not thinking about God or my life situation or anything spiritual at all. It lasted maybe a couple of minutes, there was time for tears of repentance and joy to wet my face as when I came to myself I was weeping and a friend near me was also weeping our having apparently had same or similar experience. I went, in a couple of minutes from being a self centered, rebellious teen to suddenly seeing every human as infinitely precious loving everyone.

Religions may become corrupted and distorted, but IMHO the seed from which religions grow are the spiritual experiences that come directly from a God that is real and alive today.

I believe in a real Person, not just a doctrine.

BTW, the Holy Spirit guided me to become a Southern Baptist. Best path for me, but not to exclude the efficacy of other faith systems for others.

I very much agree with Dr. Land.

Richard Land is another advocate of "just wars," a false doctrine of the apostate Roman Catholic Church.

Jesus never killed anyone, neither did he advocate killing anyone, nor did he sanction killing anyone. He laid down his life rather than kill and commanded his disciples to follow his example. A Christian, by definition, follows the example of Jesus Christ, who was meek and lowly of heart.

No war was ever won by the meek and lowly of heart. No Christians have ever engaged in war.

Bail, Al, Bail!

I wrote the following over twenty years ago.

People are in a religious turmoil--they have lost something and they cannot find out what is missing. They go to church, they cannot find it there. They go to discussion groups, join cults, etc., but still cannot find that what is missing.

The clergy cannot help them find it because of their one and only commandment---Give your money to god, but send it to my address.

The book, A Dragon This Way Comes, uses military cryptanalysis to decrypt the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Of course, if you cannot understand or decrypt the meaning of Revelation, what good is it?

The decryption predicts a world economic war with extreme (mega) inflation, food becoming more valuable than gold, diseases in the beef, pork, and poultry industries. New diseases and old diseases with a new twist. Oil costs making gas sell for over $5 a gallon.

Oh yes, it ends with World War III and China is in the chute ready to ride out. People know that something is coming down and its gonna come down hard. All we do is look around and it does not take a smart person to realize we cannot keep going on like this.

If we had half as much foresight as we have hindsight, we would have twice as much insight.

I grew up in the Baptist church. I agree with the previous poster who said that they deliberately set out to completely destroy your sense of self-esteem. Preaching humility is one thing and is admirable but this was more of a mind-control tactic to keep us fearful of the outside world and of any ideas which the leaders of the church did not agree with. Many of us grew up in appalling poverty and to be told that it was our own fault because we were 'sinners' constantly grated upon me. When I left home I never went to church again but I do read the Bible and try to do as Jesus would have done. Personally, I think he would be disgusted with the evangelical movement today and their war-mongering, greedy leadership.

mr. land's smugness is suffocating. true, the mainline churches are in decline, but as always, the southern baptists are merely lagging. the malaise that afflicts the other denominations is starting to infect the sbc and their numbers are headed in the same direction. as for rejecting tradition, i suggest that can be dangerous. look again at the sbc, where land and his ilk gleefully trashed a once treasured traditon of separation of church and state (i know this one personally, having headed for the door the minute they annointed ronald reagan). the present leadership of the sbc has reduced the denomination to ridicule. what other belief is a common synonym for intolerance and ignorance? nice going, land.

This form of faith is not scriptural.How does one go about finding a faith that fulfills thier needs, especially with so many to choose from.
Jesus answered that question when he said that his true worshipers would worship with spirit and truth. That they would speak with the same line of thought. That they will love one another and their ministry would not be one that holds to titles as if one brother was greater that the other. Is there such a faith? Yes! And It is just a Knock away. Please put away your personal opinions, your private interpretations, and your faiths built just for the lifestyles you want to live. Learn to think God's thoughts and not those of your heart.

These thoughts are the thoughts of a man that agrees with another imperfect man.

Remember God is drawing meek ones to his son not those who do not show humility. He has hidden the deep things from those who are worldly interlectuals and given to babes.

Think!!! Please!!!

This form of faith is not scriptural.How does one go about finding a faith that fulfills thier needs, especially with so many to choose from.
Jesus answered that question when he said that his true worshipers would worship with spirit and truth. That they would speak with the same line of thought. That they will love one another and their ministry would not be one that holds to titles as if one brother was greater that the other. Is there such a faith? Yes! And It is just a Knock away. Please put away your personal opinions, your private interpretations, and your faiths built just for the lifestyles you want to live. Learn to think God's thoughts and not those of your heart.

These thoughts are the thoughts of a man that agrees with another imperfect man.

Remember God is drawing meek ones to his son not those who do not show humility. He has hidden the deep things from those who are worldly interlectuals and given to babes.

Think!!! Please!!!

This form of faith is not scriptural.How does one go about finding a faith that fulfills thier needs, especially with so many to choose from.
Jesus answered that question when he said that his true worshipers would worship with spirit and truth. That they would speak with the same line of thought. That they will love one another and their ministry would not be one that holds to titles as if one brother was greater that the other. Is there such a faith? Yes! And It is just a Knock away. Please put away your personal opinions, your private interpretations, and your faiths built just for the lifestyles you want to live. Learn to think God's thoughts and not those of your heart.

These thoughts are the thoughts of a man that agrees with another imperfect man.

Remember God is drawing meek ones to his son not those who so not show humility. He has hidden the deep things from those who are worldly interlectuals and given to babes.

Think!!! Please!!!

This form of faith is not scriptural.How does one go about finding a faith that fulfills thier needs, especially with so many to choose from.
Jesus answered that question when he said that his true worshipers would worship with spirit and truth. That they would speak with the same line of thought. That they will love one another and their ministry would not be one that holds to titles as if one brother was greater that the other. Is there such a faith? Yes! And It is just a Knock away. Please put away your personal opinions, your private interpretations, and your faiths built just for the lifestyles you want to live. Learn to think God's thoughts and not those of your heart.

These thoughts are the thoughts of a man that agrees with another imperfect man.

Remember God is drawing meek ones to his son not those who so not show humility. He has hidden the deep things from those who are worldly interlectuals and given to babes.

Think!!! Please!!!

As someone who bailed on the Church over 30 years ago, for the Eastern religions, I can only say this was the best decision I have ever made. And to read all the arrogant, ignorant, egotistical, self-righteous and mostly evangelical bigots in these pages only reaffirms how insulting and degrading it would be to have to stomach such profound ignorance every Sunday morning.

The problem with the 35,000+ religions in the world is that none of them can withstand philosophical scrutiny. All of them require some measure of accepting some kind of faith as part of their rationale to exist. Therein lies the flaw and weakness of their appeal to an intelligent society that questions all tenets of such creeds.

I am curious. Why didn't you include Roman Catholics as those seeking to break bonds with their strong church tradition and teachings? I am RC and have been struggling with the idea of leaving the church, but just haven't got the nerve to make "the leap" yet.

To Sam Clark & Norrie Hoyt in particular.
I was raised a Presbyterian, with a sister who went to the Congo as a missionary, and I wanted to dedicate my life to becoming a medical missionary. I was deeply into religion.
Gradually, as I became more conscious of science and the world, I migrated 180º. I believe that organized religion and especially fundamentalists (including the Dark Ages Pope) are mankind's Bane!
All one needs to do is look at the sleazy TV preachers, faith healers, and brainwashed dogma congregations who fool us, fleece us, and who foment War - based on their fundamental religious idiocy!

So... how would you feel about a group who celebrates someone who sent a combatant to kill the children of their enemies?

When you read a book and pick and choose what is moral and what is not, it would seem that you are the source of the morality.

Mr. Land suggests that the 40 per cent reported change in religious affiliation is due to "soul liberty" and "freedom of conscience".
I totally disagree with this notion and believe that it is quite the contrary.
Unlike most countries in the developed world, the culture of the United States continues to value an adherence to organized religions. Such a regressive system of values is more on par with developing countries then with advanced societies that have incorporated intellectualism, individuality, and maintain an emphasis on rational thought. Moreover this regressive value system creates a great marketplace for exploiting the intellectual and emotional needs of individuals as they move from one organized religion to the other in search of satisfaction.
Of course Mr. Land will chose to label such a movement within the web of organized religions as "liberty" and "freedom". But how can it be when individuals are still caught in the web?

many want a religion with a lot of gimmes, a religion nice and easy without any demands and no restrictions.
thats not a religion, just a placebo to justify their actions, moral or immoral.
when blacks were brought from africa to America, they embraced Christianity because they hid their gods behind Christian icons because theirs were prohibited at the time. after hearing a prominent black man say that his politics is his religion, I firmly believe that practice continues.
religion serves no good if the reason you believe is because you were taught to believe, not because you really believe.

"The fact that 40 percent of Americans have switched their religious affiliation since childhood is a sign of health."

Maybe, or maybe not. Maybe it's a sign that in these times of "what's in it for me" thinking, the brimstone-lite, prosperity-heavy gospels being preached by some Protestant denominations are appealing to the faithful's narcissism and not the sacrifice that Christ asked of us.

Does Mr. Land want us to believe that every person in the 40 per cent reported as changing religious affiliation are doing so on the basis of "soul liberty," "freedom of conscience," and "priesthood of every person of faith?"

I was raised in the baptist church by baptist parents. I became conscious of the psychological abuses the baptist faith had perpetrated on me as a child when I was in my teens. These include (but are not limited to) destruction of self-esteem (" . . . that saved a wretch like me " from the song "Amazing Grace", for example), preying upon one's fears (particularly of dying), the instillation of a never-ending sense of guilt, and the manipulation of one's other emotions.

Now, decades later, I still have rage and bitterness from what a "loving" church family did to me, and since my "road to Damascus" moment, I have utterly rejected religion. I find those who indoctrinate defenseless, innocent children into these repressive religions using psychological pressures and control of information to be shameful. I feel that this sort of control and brainwashing amounts to child abuse and should be widely seen as such.

I will have to respectfully disagree. I believe that this changing of faith is due to a lack of sacrifice that most religions require from their members. God requires that we sacrifice the only thing that we have that is truly our own to give away-our own will, our own desires.
Most churches nowadays don't require any sacrifice. Go to church on sunday, sometimes not even every sunday-just really as long as you pray in your heart right? People don't want to belong to something that they don't feel apart of. No sacrifice=no feeling of belonging. God knows that, so its how he teaches us and helps us to grow, gives us opportunities to sacrifice. And it helps us to understand our Savior.
Unfortunately it is sad that most religious leaders receive a nice salary from their members. These leaders teach about the biggest sacrifice of humankind- Jesus Christ atonement, but most don't even sacrifice anything from their own lives. Many pastors have good intentions, but there are some who manipulate their members and abuse God's doctrine in order to get gain.
So why the big changes in faith? Lack of honest preachers who will work without the plate being passed, lack of trust in spiritual leaders, lack of sacrifice. Lots of talk, no acts.

My parents taught me the basics of my religion, I had a moderate (that's to say neither liberal nor conservative) religious upbringing. I studied other religions at school which taught me enough to know that I wanted to follow the same religion as my parents. I've discovered the positives and negatives of this approach. The positive being that through studying my religion I had a greater understanding of it and the negative was that I missed out on a whole lot of education I could have got from my parents. I don't think it's wrong for parents to want their kids to follow their religion but I think it's important they explain it rather than saying 'do as your told.'

Yes!

If your household religion doesn't fit, try on a new one!

When you find one you like, don't worry if some parts aren't agreeable to you. Religion is a buffet! Take the parts you find agreeable; ignore the rest.

Eventually you too will be able to concoct for yourself a nice warm fuzzy (and personally customized) blanket of religion that you can feel really good about.

"Raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Norrie Hoyt,
"No child can have a true religious affiliation, because "affiliation" implies a voluntary adherence."

You don't know all the children nor all the parents. Just because your parents forced you to go to church doesn't mean that you can be confident that every other child in the world is forced to attend church. I quit attending church almost two years ago (I still follow hard after Christ) but all five of my children still attend church at their own request.

Which is why most Churches don't start confirmation classes until kids are 12 and then don't ask them to declare for two years thereafter.

"The fact that 40 percent of Americans have switched their religious affiliation since childhood is a sign of health."

No child can have a true religious affiliation, because "affiliation" implies a voluntary adherence.

A child lacks the legal capacity to make a contract. A child also lacks a sufficiently mature intellect to affiliate voluntarily and understandingly with a religion.

My state of Vermont allows a child from the age of fourteen upwards to choose his own guardian when one is required.

Fourteen is probably also about the right age that a child can voluntarily and with some understanding affiliate with a religion. Younger, the child's "faith" is imposed or inherited, to use Dr. Land's phrasing.

My parents sent me to Congregational Sunday School at age six, against my wishes. I spent my time there telling my Sunday School teacher that her Congregational religion made no sense.

Yet I would have been counted as having the Congregational Church as my affiliation, which was certainly not the case either intellectually or emotionally.

Over the years I evolved into an agnostic with Buddhist sympathies. The Pew report would say I'd switched my childhood affiliation, which is not so.

To say that 40% of Americans switched religious affiliations is misleading and erroneous. Those who "switched" probably never had any voluntary attachment to their so-called "childhood religious affiliation".

Does this apply to Baptists?

>>>Religions have a somewhat subtle attribute that makes them more than a little incompatible with certain forms of government. The Godless communists were/are actually religion-less and not God-less. One can never stop another from believing in God(s) but can stop the fellow on the street corner with the bull horn..."our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ..." Our Lord and savior is Joe Stalin and no other shall have a voice or be represented and live to tell about it.

Religions are governments that template the old, (still is?) USSR government types -run by a central committee and ruled with an iron fist. That explains the fledgling communists states of early 20th century attempting to, actually in the case of China, put religions out of business. Religions compete with government for the loyalty of the commons.

As you so eloquently noted, religions are extensions of families creating communities. There's a sense of belonging, baptized, wedded and burried all three. In eastern Europe in particular the parish priest was the first one consulted when there was conflict within the community. He was judge and jury and his word was final. Call it religion but it's really government.

Just maybe the PEW report is telling us that Americans have become a little paranoid -can't decide which master to try serving. The notion of our freedom seems to be in conflict with the human need for community -sense of belonging. We're all Americans and that idea has been literally shoved down throats with the civil rights and other "every one's equal" movement.

Evangelical is another way of saying not so fast to all that equality -everyone isn't going to heaven when they die so there is still a better class of people. Gays in particular are not entitled to rights.

"We hold these truths to be self evident, all men are created equal..." Now we know Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and the parish priest were NOT created equal -the better class of people begins with them. And, what sort of a person would stoop to being equal to a gay?

Maybe Americans are actually beginning to believe their own words but can't quite shake the shackles of the better class of people running their lives? So they are now wandering from ministry to ministry looking to integrate into the better class yet feeling there's something fundamentally wrong with being there?

Where does all that lead is a fairly good question -could give some insight into mid east future? As things now stand getting Sh ii and Sunni to agree they're equal seems to be an impossible task. The bitter truth -free elections do not a democracy make. They could spell the end to religion and that gives the better class of people something to worry about.<<<

Give you some understanding why missionaries are not allowed in China? Only Americans can serve two masters at one time or can they?