"It's not whether religion empowers your life; it's whether God empowers your life. When you answer yes to that, you get a life of meaning and purpose."

Leaves out the atheists and agnostics, doesn't it? Or do you think their lives have no meaning and purpose? spirituality doesn't have to be about G-d. It's a way of thinking and looking at the world and appreciating it in all its grandeur and beauty and awesome power. To only look for G-d in all this means you always overlook the beauty in front of you. And if you overlook it, you can never truly appreciate it.

I don't believe in using G-d to disenfranchise those who may not believe in Him, but who still, as is well-documented, live full, rich, inspiring lives. The lives you just denied them.

"I realize now that I can look inward with all the energy and curiosity that I used to use to look outward; to turn my heart from chasing the needs and expectations of others to being happy and quiet and even in love with just me. That's taken me a long time, and I'm not there yet. But I know that's the key to losing my fear and becoming the woman I can be."

Say what? If she wants to be an inward looking, self centered individual being happy and in love with herself, then she is going to get what she seeks. If she wants to turn her heart from the needs of others, then that's her choice. Glorifying this kind of woman (or man) that she wants to be is silly. You are silly and so is this woman. All the great spiritual leaders agree that service to others is the road to spirituality, especially Jesus Christ. Jesus said:

Mt 10:39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

So we are supposed to seek God to empower us to do what we want? Doesn't sound much like religion I know. I think God has given us enough. We simply need more of him. What he chooses to do through us is up to him.

Does anyone even care about truth? This just sounds like people making up their own religion to get what they want. That sounds about like no religion at all to me.

Ah, the power of women. Here is one clue:

Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?

Song of Songs (aka Song of Solomon), Ch 6, V 10

sparrow4 : "Leaves out the atheists and agnostics, doesn't it?"

What if atheists and agnostics decided they did not believe in English? Many aspects of social behavior require us to adapt to others' perspectives in order to appreciate our lives with them. Women are, in my opinion, more adaptable to social influences than men. They have been willing over the last centuries to accept domination and oppression by men in many forms. One of those forms has been churches. It is clear that women have a different perspective on religion, as they do on many things. In a world with increased democratic freedom women should use that freedom to influence society. Churches should receive a high priority.

I see that kengelhart, the internet troll, has transferred to this blog.

Arminius : "the internet troll"

I resemble that remark. Keep it on topic if you please.

Ok, L. Kurt, since you had so much fun deriding *my* religion, let's see how much fun *this* is.

" kert1 :

"So we are supposed to seek God to empower us to do what we want?"

Is that all you can see, here?

"Doesn't sound much like religion I know."

I'm getting that impression of what you 'know,' just today.

" I think God has given us enough. We simply need more of him."

Ah. Enough, but we need more of the same... of... what again?

" What he chooses to do through us is up to him."

So, if that were true, you're here complaining *why,* again?

"Does anyone even care about truth? This just sounds like people making up their own religion to get what they want. That sounds about like no religion at all to me."

From what you said over on Starhawk's thread, you don't seem to think much of 'religion,' whatever it says.

What do *you* *want,* L.Kurt?

I mean, if you're gonna go ahead and make up your own idea of what certain religious folk are saying, why not go al in and *make up* our own religion?

Or have you already?

What would you like, on this coming election day, among we mere mortals?

Paganplace : "let's see how much fun *this* is"

I only play with equals or better.

I mean, yaknow, L. Kurt, I don't agree too often with how Rev. Shriver interprets most things.

Even this. But you claim you represent some 'truth,; and you're trying to tell everyone that this guy didn't see what he saw?

Really?

Just like we spent all morning with you trying to 'prove' some Pagans said things they didn't say.

You say 'seems' as in 'What I want to say 'seems'... now you talk about 'Truth?'

Reread. :)

" kengelhart

"Paganplace : "let's see how much fun *this* is"

""I only play with equals or better.""

Aaaah. More about what *you* want. Cause it seems to me that not too long ago, you were baselessly accusing a whole lot of people of thinking we're *better* than you.

Now I come to find out this wasn't so egalitarian a motive, but rather, ...something you imagined cause it's important to *you?*

So terribly sorry for you.

It does get better, if you let it.

Paganplace : "It does get better, if you let it."

I'm sure of it.

Hey! Are there any actual women out there who have an opinion on this topic? I'm getting tired of testosterone.

"I'm sure of it."

First positive thing you've said all day, L. Kurt.

Thus fortified with this unflappable surety in the goodness of human nature, I now invite ou to, read again what you say you've read, and what you daid about it, and what others said to you.

Cause you seemed to be falsely implying back there that what some people said was meant to say that it'd ever occured to them to believe they were 'Better Than L.Kurt.'

Only now here you are claiming you only play with those you find, by the same criteria of Jesus and truth, 'Equals or betters.'

As I said, you seem to insistently see, only what you bring with you.

Does get better, yes.

Does take a wee bit of work, though. Effort. Thought. Life. Communication, even. That sort of thing.

You know. Human stuff. ;)

" kengelhart Author Profile Page:

"Hey! Are there any actual women out there who have an opinion on this topic? I'm getting tired of testosterone."

Yep. See what I mean, here? Somehow, the Jesus-worshippers got some kind of idea in their head that assertiveness makes one 'not a real woman.'

Actual woman find you flailing cutely dysfunctional at best, L. Kurt.

Is this more about what *you* want 'Religion' to say is 'Truth?'

"They have been willing over the last centuries to accept domination and oppression by men in many forms. One of those forms has been churches. It is clear that women have a different perspective on religion, as they do on many things. In a world with increased democratic freedom women should use that freedom to influence society"

kengelhart- what makes you think women haven't already been doing that? But I think you can agree that women, for many reasons, have been oppressed, and the intimidation was mental, emotional and physical. women are tremendously resilient, strong and empowered in ways that men with traditional views don't understand. But often it was a private or hidden empowerment and my thought on that it if it has to be hidden, you aren't fully empowered. My feeling is that women quietly empower themselves and play a waiting game until society comes to realize what they already know.

Paganplace,

Ignore the troll. You are better than that.

Fun fact of endocrinology, btw: Testosterone isn't actually the aggression trigger, even in males. :)

PaganPlace,
Can you be more condescending? It just amazes me.

I don't really understand what you are saying but I'll try to clarify. My goal in life is to know God. That is what I consider true spirituality, not trying to be empowered and using any means to get their. Consider the start contrast between the 2 ideas, I can't consider them together. Call it my opion or whatever you want. I have a right to believe it.

I also believe in ultimate truth. Not a Smorgasbord of ideas that you can pick and choose from according to your preferences. Truth is not subject to me or any human, so we should not be rellying on ourselved to come up with it. This approach never works. The beliefs are so pluralistic they end up meaning nothing and disapate or they conflict with others and destroy the unity they supposively share. Neither is empowering nor gets us anywhere close to God.

My real question is do we want to know God or exalt ourselves. I guess we all need to answer that one.

"Ignore the troll. You are better than that."

I'm still not seeing this 'better than' thing, ...Chsitian comes over to a Pagan thread, rebuking us over an insistent delusion he thinks we think we're better than him, then comes over here and claims to be 'better' than us...

I'm losing a sense of how 'better' is *better* in this gentleman's 'truthy' world. :)

I would say to L. Kurt, actually:

Being a mere human like the rest of us, don't mean you can't *think.*

I was talking about how Wiccans see lies and deceptions, but I didn't say what's the worst of them.

They will make you *alone.*

Ready for humanity, yet? I hate to rush you, but there's work to do, here.

"PaganPlace,
Can you be more condescending? It just amazes me."

Would it help?

Stand not amazed. We wrote plenty you disinterpreted all morning, and you can't seem to be bothered to communicate. Called it 'fun' to waste our time.

Then come over here and do exactly what you falsely accused *us* of.

What in the ten thousand names of the Lady are you 'seeking' that you think you'll get out of *that* willful blindness to your fellow humans?

Watcha want? Me to wash your feet with my ragged hair? I'd do it if you needed.

Somehow I figure it won't help, though.

sparrow4 : "But often it was a private or hidden empowerment"

I agree. In some ways women may have felt the world men set up for themselves was irrelevant to their lives. I think that kind of "other world" is less possible today. The whole project of democracy in human enterprise may be part of the reason things have changed.

"Ignore the troll. You are better than that."

I'm still not seeing this 'better than' thing, ...Chsitian comes over to a Pagan thread, rebuking us over an insistent delusion he thinks we think we're better than him, then comes over here and claims to be 'better' than us...

ME:
Oh, holy whatever.

Maybe I should have said, "You're smarter than that."

If you just want to spread your good thoughts to the wind, have at it. The troll is just here to prod you to action, along with others. You simply play into his game. Hell, he even admitted he is a troll. Might as well try to communicate with Spidey or the Confused Croissant. Life is too damn short for this.

arminius- am I nuts or has spidey stopped posting so much? He's certainly slacking off in the arguments- cut and paste all the time. Happy Idiot's Day in every post. Think he's on the verge?

Hi, Sparrow,

Yer right, Spidey's been absent. Must have missed his meds. Or maybe not his type of topic. I'm sure he'll be back.

Nah, Spidey was spamming up a storm just last week. Not sure he ever registers what the topic is, anyway. :)

Spidey's back on David Waters' blog, with his usual insanity. I immediately posted a $5000 bounty for him - in Zimbabwe currency, since that's all he's worth.

Here's hoping that a new generation of women will love and protect the unborn child in her womb, as a mark of feminine strength.

It is money, education and the independence that goes with it that brings power. In the past only men had that kind of independence and power. Unfortunately many men abused the power they had over women. Women used or abused the power that was theirs to have because all human beings are capable of both good and evil.

Aborting unborn children is an abuse of female power, the power they have over children in their womb.

Women need to reflect about that in their search for God and higher values.

Eh, put up or shut up, Conservative. Reagan tells *one completely imaginary story* about a Welfare Mom in a Cadillac, and now we're supposed to carry children of rape to term, even if we don't know where the Cornflakes are supposed to come from. Even if despite a housing crash, low income people are still spending 85 percent of their income just to have a roof over their own heads.

I have lived (so far) for 84 years and have, for many years, been filled with wonder, and some amusement, at the swallowing , generation after generation, of the male-oriented ancient writings which we consider the "Word of God". Several thousand years ago, men (women were not allowed to learn to read or write) tried to set down what they believed to be a logical explanation of this whole place we find ourselves in, using the story-form and their limited knowledge of the world. Naturally, God had to be a sort of man, with all the main characters being male. Being Jewish, naturally the Jews were God's chosen people, They described God as "loving and merciful" on the one hand, and a terrible punisher, on the other. Their conclusions were that God, even though He is aware of the past, present, and future, for some reason plays a "board game' with his creations, testing them and punishing them for not adhering to his orders, even knowing the outcome (having infinite knowledge of the future).
This seems strange, when God could ordain that all of his creatures would live in peace and harmony, without want or hunger or war. Otherwise, it seems that man has no idea, really, of what God is or is not. Maybe there is a "Super-God" and our God is not really in charge, but has some our own human failings, and has to answer to his boss, who might even be female!

"Aborting unborn children is an abuse of female power, the power they have over children in their womb.

Women need to reflect about that in their search for God and higher values."

so not searching. Aborting unborn children is not what women do. they abort zygotes or fetuses. You cannot abuse power when you are rendered powerless by the men who rape you. Taking away a woman's choice IS rape.

Doesn't Tim have a great haircut in that picture?

Wow! I wish I could get my hair to do that!

TIM442

You wrote, "Mt 10:39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it."

Sometimes, one has to find their life before they can offer their life to God. Posting bible verses sometimes only means that someone know where a verse is in the bible.

You also said, "If she wants to be an inward looking, self centered individual being happy and in love with herself, then she is going to get what she seeks.", kind of judgemental don't you think? Maybe some look inward so that they can go outward in God's Will, Jesus, Himself, said to look within.

You also wrote, " If she wants to turn her heart from the needs of others, then that's her choice.", yes, that could be one of her choices but since you are not her, you do not know what choices she will make. Also, you are not God and sometimes God chooses someone for a very specific reason and that is His decision not yours.

Then you wrote, "All the great spiritual leaders agree that service to others is the road to spirituality, especially Jesus Christ.".

First, Jesus is not a "great spiritual leader", He is God-Incarnate.

Second, Jesus did not become Jesus to show us the "road to spirituality", He came to be the SAVIOUR OF ALL HUMANITY and He invited us to be active participants in God's Plan.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

KERT1

You wrote, "What he chooses to do through us is up to him." and "That sounds about like no religion at all to me.".

God does choose us for what He wants us to do but He can not force us since He gave us free will.

It is not about religion, it is not about rules and regulations, it is not about spirituality, these and other things in various combinations may lead us to God but not necessarily.

Ultimately, it is about God and since God is a BEING OF PURE LOVE, it is about Love, and God can use a multitude of different ways to get to us despite the fact that we sometimes think we can limit His Ways of doing things.

Since we are all individual human being and God cares for each and every one of us, God's approach to one may be completely different than His approach to another.

God has a Plan and His Plan is for All to be with Him in His Kingdom and His Plan will come to Fruition. Christianity is just part of His Plan.

Knowing God's Name does not make one a Christian.

God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and only God can look into one's heart.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

CENTRAL1942

You wrote, "This seems strange, when God could ordain that all of his creatures would live in peace and harmony,".

God gave us free will, if He would have "ordained", then we would just be like a bunch of puppets on a string, even tho some who know God's Name don't seem to know anything else about Him does not take away from God it just means that some speak of Whom they know not.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.