Obama visited the Holocaust memorial and said, "never again", yet he wants to sit down and have dialogue with people who deny that the Holocaust ever happened.

Just think about it...

The very word "holocaust" is a lie here because it means death by fire which is not how Jews died
in WW2 Europe. Mostly of malnutrition and typhus
plus shootings on the eastern front. What the actual figure is we'll never know. But there are
estimates that Mao killed over 100 million with his policies and Stalin maybe half that. And that has never stopped us from having relations with both countries. It's time to end this holocaustamania and cancel the blank check to Israel before we get into a real nuclear holocaust. Obama was grovelling.

The past is prologue. Please go to Palestineremembered.com.

What happened to the Palestinians as they were ousted from their homeland is nothing short of evil also.
They are still marginalized by the world as nothing short of a sub-human culture, just as Americans placed little or no value on slaves or native Indian's lives, we do also the Palestinians.

Obama was afraid to visit with the Palestinians, just a short drop-in will do, for them! Or...else!

I don't understand why Mr. Shriver, a Roman Catholic, chooses to promote the unchristian worldview that God is powerless to stop evil and that humans must save themselves spiritually. This worldview sets humans up spiritually in the place of God - the very monstrous pride that gave us Nazi-ism, Communism, and an estimated 160 million dead (so far). And now, it appears Mr. Shriver will use his access to regular publication of his writings by the Washington Post to promote pro-abortion, anti-surge-even-after-success, far-left liberal Barack Obama's presidential candidacy. Tim, I believe you are wiser than this. Why do you write in this vein?

The usual list of socially agreed upon evils. Nothing about the evils that Israel has perpetrated on its neighbors, and those who reside within its borders, but cannot be citizens Nothing about those fire bombed in Tokyo and Dresden; nothing about those incinerated in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Until we can honestly face ALL of the evils, we cannot recognize and admit, that we too, are evil. Only when we see the problem in its entirety, can we effectively deal with it.

Mr Shriver:

Thank you for your incisive piece. In the context of our national political discourse, I appreciate that you're offering a more nuanced narrative on evil in the world, and you've offered a different place for religion to enter the conversation as well.

Mr Hardesty:

The word Holocaust comes from Latin and means "whole burning." As a term, it actually predates the genocide of the Nazi regime, and many Jews prefer not to use it because of the theological associations it has with sacrifice and worship. The Hebrew used by many Jews is "Shoah," meaning catastrophe.

I agree with you that ignoring other human rights violations such as those of Stalin or Mao is wrong--many sources believe Mao to be the greatest killer of human history. However, the US didn't have sunny relations with Communist China or Russia... remember the Cold War? And truly, if you believe yourself a champion of human rights, it is somewhat ridiculous to denigrate the observance of a tragedy as "groveling." It has been documented that the intent behind the Nazi killings versus that of forced collectivization is very different, so I'm not sure how much sense it makes to equate the two. However, that one episode of mass killing is more widely publicized than another does not make one event less tragic than another.

And to Jackie Rawlings: if you believe that the whole people of another country, be it Iran, Israel, Iraq, or even the US, is institutionally following Satan, then you've proven yourself ridiculous enough to be discounted from this conversation.

Miss Kitty:

What has been visited upon the Palestinians is horrible. This is undisputed. But in terms of Obama's visit to the region, Palestine has very real and very unfortunate security concerns--some caused by Palestinians, others by external forces such as Israel. To visit Palestine today is a major security nightmare for high profile officials and I can understand why Obama declined to go there. However, I pray and look forward to a day in which a visit to Palestine would be no more or less problematic than a visit to Israel.

Haha - when you mentioned the evidence of evil, I thought you were going to talk about the unholy and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from God's Holy Land; or how the Palestinians were made to pay the price for a Holocaust perpetrated by German Nazi's; or how the US made M1A1 tanks and Apache helicopters inflict collateral damage on a helpless civilian population that resents the occupation and humiliation of their people.

I thought you were going to talk about that evidence of evil. Instead you were talking about the evil of 60+ years passed. The one that involved reparations, repatriation, compensation, atonement, and forgiveness.

What was I thinking?!?!

Timsiepel:

"Socially agreed upon evils" is fairly cynical. I can definitely understand and relate to your desire to create a more just narrative for considering evil. However, none of these are one-sided events.

It is wrong to seek to diminish the pain and suffering of the Nazi genocide by invoking the wrongs of the modern state of Israel. Furthermore, both of your examples of the Arab-Israeli conflict, as well as World War II were not morally straightforward. Dropping fire on civilians in Germany or Japan was a horrific act. These were also countries that engaged in their own atrocities (genocide, the Rape of Nanking, for example). The Arab-Israeli conflict is heated enough that it might not be worth getting into here, suffice it to say that it is neither one-sided nor is it simple. Examples abound on both sides of atrocities.

Not to suggest that it is acceptable to justify atrocities with other atrocities, but in creating a full and just history of these deeds, we must not seek to diminish the suffering of others as well.

We will always tolorate evils carried out in our side, and will denounce "evils" carried out by our "enemies". The Holocaust against the Jews was no more or less serious than the Holocaust carried out against the many African ethnic groups or the many groups of Native Americans. Everyone remembers the terrorist attacks of 911, but most American prefer to forget that Reagan financed terrorists in Nicaragua, Angola, and gave weapons to terrorists in Iran and Lebanon.
We can all fight evil by fighting our own evil impulses and preventing our own evil deeds. Instead of cursing the Genocide in Darfur, which we will do nothing about, we ought to look to ourselves and our own nation. If we let the current administration get away with unprovoked war, murder and torture, we are no better than the Germans who stood by while the Jews we being shipped to death camps.
Stop whining about evil - do something, like stop BEING evil.

Your article was excellent. However, it needs some clarifications in its theme.

Evil is the absence of good.It needs, and uses 'the good' as a means to engage in the world.

God is SPIRIT. This is a basic theological truth.
Physicists would agree that ENERGY is a constant in this universe. It can't be created,or destroyed. SPIRIT and ENERGY converge in the substance and soul of living matter.

Humanity has used, and must use natural materials in the universe to generate energy.Accidents that involve the transfer of natural materials (to be refined for productive resources)generate multiple and long lasting problems for waterways like the recent accident on the Mississippi River. Chemical and nuclear bombs leave residue with long lasting problems for the earth's surface and the people living in its surrounds.Visioning energy as a product dangerously overlooks its source.

Humanity is responsible for the care of natural resources.A human culture at war threatens the very planet that is home to its existence.

When people see calamitous accidents and search for a cause, they can usually find human error no matter its originating source.

The signs of human energy begin at birth when the nascent life emerges with the ability to breathe the air of the earth, and absorb its water, later its productive fruits and vegetables.To blame God
for the destructive climate accidents is banal.

God is Spirit, providing energy to human life through multiple sources, and inspiration for the development of a thinking being. Interfering with the nature of the globe and its resources cannot proceed without humanity's caring comprehension of its nature. Since Spirit is within each human being, he inspires the good we recognize. Evil is the absence of good, yet it needs good to realize and promote its agendas. This is why humans need to sit down, think and talk to one another. In the beginning humans used words to inspire one another.

Augustine described evil as "the privation of the good;" there is nothing evil in the creation itself, but free will allows human beings to distort what is good into evil for selfish or short-sighted purposes. The temptation to evil is as old as conscious thought. Do I trust in creation, be it divinely motivated or atheistically evolving, to provide for my needs, or do I attempt to short circuit the process by means of my own devices? The problem with providence, even if you believe in it, is that it can take a long time. Parse out any of the great evils of history, and you find at the heart of it a fundamental impatience with the natural order or with human development or with faith in a diety who provides. Nazis believed that they could improve the human species by eliminating defective and non-Aryan bloodlines. In today's world, the lives of millions are at risk if they in some way impede access to oil or food by any of the world's major powers. They who have the gold, make the rules, and are willing rewrite the rules and kill thousands to keep the gold; not trusting in nature, science, or God to provide all they need in due time.

Some things we will never understand, or have the answer to "Why?". I expect someone, who does not believe the Bible to be the absolute truth coming from the one and only God, to say our God is a monster. How else could they explain God allowing, permiting or even sending calamities and atrocities our way? However, I am confused when believers thank God for what they percieve as "good times", and blame "bad times" on "bad luck", "unbelief" or "stupidity".

Consider that God sends these calamities our way. We can never understand life from His vantage point. The book of Job points out God "letting" and "telling" the Satan to "stretch out your hand" and do this or that. The author of Job asks if we are willing to take good from God, but not calamity.

And, what about God delivering Israel but afterwards ruining Egypt with a series of calamities. In Deut. 32:23-37 God says, "I will heap calamities upon them and spend my arrows against them. I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague...In the street the sword will make them childless: in their homes terror will reign...Young men and young women will perish, infants and gray haired men. I said I would scatter them and blot out their memory from mankind, but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy..." It does sound like a monster speaking - from our human perspective, but Moses called Him, "A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He."

It is what we don't understand that leads us to ask, "Why does God allow/permit/send calamities". In the same way, a doctor might amputate a leg to save a life, or cut into a choking child's throat...God has a paramount perspective and knows what is best.

Tim, you write, "No question is more troublesome than how we explain and face evil." I'm so touched by this. You have pinpointed in one sentence the criteria I have for casting my vote (i.e., How do the candidates explain and deal with evil? Not, if they are for gay marriage, if their great grandfather's uncle was muslum, if they were born into a rich family, ...). God is in control. I want a president who respects that, regardless of whether I agree with everything he says or does. Like the Bible says, "All things are lawful, but all things are not profitable."

The headline held out the POSSIBILITY that

this story would be about the evil of the Iraelis practicing genocide and apartheid on
the Palestinians.
(NBC NIghtly news did such a story recently.)

Silly silly me, it was just long whine about the holocaust. Never a day without it. Some excuse or other.

Further one sees another round of that propoganda coming...there are new polls showing how disgusted the world is with the constant israeli scrams for bombing Iran or anything that moves.

"a kind of spiritual transformation in which evil doesn’t disappear, but we overcome it by denying its power"

Oy vey- that is piss-poor thinking.

No one who has encountered evil can deny its power. Timothy Shriver, hold a dying child in Darfur or visit the places in Thailand where perversion is bought and sold and feel evil shake you to the bone.

Evil is NOT overcome by denial. Evil must be acknowledged and confronted- NOT turning away from.

As a Catholic- you should know how evil is overcome through the centuries:

--Love finds no pleasure in evil-doing.

--Love rejoices with the Truth.

--Love never ceases to hope.

--Love endures all things.

--There is no limit to Love's forbearance.

--Love never fails....

TIMOTHY SHRIVER

You wrote, "But here’s one you won’t read in a theology textbook: what if God is all loving, all knowing, all good, but not all powerful? What if something has gone terribly wrong in God’s creation—something that not even God can stop? What if God is on our side, but can’t stop the carnage?"

Then, I suppose, that God wouldn't be much of a God, would He?

God knows what is going on and He is ALL-POWERFUL so there is no need for you to be worried and also no need for you to think that YOU OR I can fix something that, according to what you wrote, God can't fix.

We have free will and what we do with that free will is up to us.

We can only live our own lives, we cannot live someone else's life, that is what free will is about, is it not?

Not only do we have free will but God has a Plan that is for ALL OF HUMANITY to be in His Kingdom and that really seems to upset some people whether or not they believe that God Is Real or not and it even upsets some of the people that seem to know God's Name.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Tim, "From this view, prayer is an invitation to join in a kind of spiritual transformation in which evil doesn’t disappear, but we overcome it by denying its power. We experience God’s power to save us from evil not as a literal conquest but rather as spiritual victory. We train our spirits to refuse to let evil have power over us."

As always your article is full of sound spiritual wisdom that is a wonder to read. The statement "but we overcome it by denying its power" is profoundly true, exact, and even prophetic.

Denying the power of evil through prayer is a saving grace. Although a hard task when evil seems to be everywhere and prevailing, the spiritual victory as the end result makes the evil one endures nothing more than a bad memory that has no longer carries the power of the event, hence spiritual victory.

I want to share this with you; along with prayer my favorite scriptural reading when evil befalls me in my personal life that is my refuge,

Psalm 91, " (1)He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. (2)I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. (3)Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. (4)He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. (5)Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; (6)Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. (7) A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. (8)Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. (9)Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; (10)There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. (11)For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
(12)They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. (13)Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. (14)Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. (15)He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. (16)With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

Michael, are you kidding me?

"Timothy Shriver, hold a dying child in Darfur or visit the places in Thailand where perversion is bought and sold and feel evil shake you to the bone."

If you think Tim has never seen these horrifying scenes, think again. He is the "peace maker", don't you know? The man has done more to make the world a more tolerable place for people rejected by society, than the rest of us can even imagine.

I have held those dying babies in my arms until rigor mortis sets in, housed women and children who have been sold into prostitution, pleaded with governments to forego executions of pregnant criminals,; however, I have seen only a fraction of what Tim has seen. He has connections in at least 180 countries, and takes every opportunity that God gives him, as a personal challenge.

When Tim speaks of the evil we face, I, for one, choose to listen and learn from him.

Evil is everywhere. Some of us want to understand what we can and simply do something. There is a fundamental difference in those who do and those who talk about those who do. When the talkers meet their maker in the end, at least they can say they never made the mistakes the doers are accused of.

Here an all time favourite of millions around the world, including me ---

Imagine by John Lennon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0Eyw3l3XM&feature=related

I am asked--

"Michael, are you kidding me?"

No.

I too have worked in Rwanda and Darfur and felt the global impotence in the face of genocide. I too have seen the destuction of innocence in the eyes of children in Haiti and Thailand. But these shared experiences have not brought us to the same conclusions.

When Timothy Shriver says--

"what if God is all loving, all knowing, all good, but not all powerful? What if something has gone terribly wrong in God’s creation—something that not even God can stop? What if God is on our side, but can’t stop the carnage?"

--he denies the power of the Cross. I strongly disagree. If we deny the power of the Cross, we deny the Chief Cornerstone of the Church. We deny Christ directly.

I still believe in G-d the Father ALMIGHTY, Creator of Heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ,
His only Son, our LORD.

Please remember this scripture--

"Our fight is not against human beings. It is against the rulers, the authorities and the powers of this dark world. It is against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly world.

So put on all of God's armor. Evil days will come. But you will be able to stand up to anything. And after you have done everything you can, you will still be standing."

MICHAEL

You wrote, ""Our fight is not against human beings. It is against the rulers, the authorities and the powers of this dark world. It is against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly world.

So put on all of God's armor. Evil days will come. But you will be able to stand up to anything. And after you have done everything you can, you will still be standing."

Yes, satan is real and so are the demons. I, for one, have been chosen by God to speak and I have said YES.

All we can do is the best that we can do and if someone is given a specific "job" then that person is to try to do it to the best of their ability. Just because God gives someone a "job" does not necessarily mean that that person knows exactly how to do it, so they plow ahead and count on God to see them thru.

Jesus told us that there is work to be done and He has also told us that Victory is assured, so this should tell us that we have work to do but as Jesus said, "Take My yoke upon you", so the work that we are to do, we do not have to do alone.

God is ALL-POWERFUL but He has also given us free will so we have a choice between doing good or evil, I can't and I won't speak for any other human being but even tho I have been chosen, I still fall short but I am counting on God to see me thru.

To deny that GOD IS ALL-POWERFUL is to also deny that God has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation. God's Plan will come to fruition in due time, God's Time.

As I have said before and I repeat: God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Dear Thomas Baum:

IN BRIEF

-"God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil's envy that death entered the world"

-Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.

-"Although set by God in a state of rectitude man, enticed by the evil one, abused his freedom at the very start of history. He lifted himself up against God, and sought to attain his goal apart from him"

-By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

-Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin".

-As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called "concupiscence").

-"We therefore hold, with the Council of Trent, that original sin is transmitted with human nature, "by propagation, not by imitation" and that it is. . . 'proper to each'"

-The victory that Christ won over sin has given us greater blessings than those which sin had taken from us: "where sin increased, grace abounded all the more" (Rom 5:20).

-Christians believe that "the world has been established and kept in being by the Creator's love; has fallen into slavery to sin but has been set free by Christ, crucified and risen to break the power of the evil one. . ."

Read to learn more: CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Joel, your post speaks truth.

Anonymous,
I know somewone that does not believe we landed on the moon...I still talk to her.

terra

JOEL

A few questions:
Have you ever met Dad, God the Father?
Have you ever met the Holy Spirit?
Do you know or do you believe or do you not believe that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus?
Have you ever met satan?
Have you ever experienced hell?
Have you ever experienced spiritual death? I am not speaking about a near-death experience either.

Quoting out of a book is one thing but do you know anything?

I have a "job" given to me by God and no one human, demonic or satan himself is going to stop me because God is going to see me thru.

As I have said before and I repeat: God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable. God's Plan, which He has had since before creation will come to fruition in due time, God's Time.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Terra Gazelle: "Anonymous,
I know somewone that does not believe we landed on the moon...I still talk to her."

terra

Are you being sarcastic or just merely stating a fact about maintaining communication though you two disagree?

If the latter is your point then I understand and agree.

Thomas Baum,

Good to see you back.

Dear Thomas Baum:

Everyone believes in something. I am an orthodox Christian believer. It not so strange that we disagree.

Your belief system sounds like Bishop Carlton Pearson's Gospel of Inclusion (similar to universal reconciliation). Are you familiar with his teaching?

Here's a utube of him speaking about his book:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2a27VGrmzg

His church is in Tulsa. Maybe you will visit there someday.

Best wishes.

ARMINIUS

Thank You and it is good to hear from you. Hope you are doing fine. Just trying to do what God chose me for. Hang in there, He hung in there for ALL OF US and then He extended the invitation to "Come follow Me", sometimes I wonder if some realize just what His invitation might entail.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Anonymous,
No I was not being sarcastic, but truthful. She is a dear friend and I still laugh at her over her disbelief that men can walk on the moon. I have no idea what she has to say about water on Mars.

I also know someone that thinks dinasaurs and men walked the earth side by side...and that there were baby dinos on the ark. Now I must say I have a harder time dealing with that. I talk to her, just not about her wrongheadedness.

You can not prove anyone wrong by ignoring them...now if it was neccessary for the person to know the truth I would work on it...but it's not. And I personally do not have the patience for that stupidity. But I talk to her.

There are some odd folks out there...sayeth the Witch.

terra

JOEL

You asked, "Your belief system sounds like Bishop Carlton Pearson's Gospel of Inclusion (similar to universal reconciliation). Are you familiar with his teaching?".

No, I am not and as a matter of fact, I have never heard of him but thanks for the whatever that thing printed in blue is called and if and when I get a chance I will try to listen to it.

By the way, you didn't answer any of my questions.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Dear Thomas Baum:

I ask you about Carlton Pearson because I want you to see you are not alone in your task to enlighten others about their universal salvation and that your beliefs are not new or unique. Like you- Bishop Pearson believes he received a special revelation that no one goes to hell. This is from his webpage:

"Have you ever asked how a loving God could condemn most of His children to eternal torment? Bishop Carlton Pearson did, and his answer will change everything you ever thought you knew about God, eternity and God’s plan for humankind.

Bishop Pearson has courageously explored the exclusionary doctrines of mainstream religion and concludes that according to the evidence of the Bible and irrefutable logic, they cannot be true. Instead, he offers us the Gospel of Inclusion—the simple, stunning truth that everyone has already been saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

He has been given an apostolic mandate to proclaim the message of 'the finished work of Calvary,' in his spoken word series entitled-'Jesus, Savior of the World,' also called the 'Gospel of Inclusion.' This 'Gospel' to the world is that Christ has accepted them; and that it is by and through the unconditional love and amazing grace of God that the human race has been reconciled and redeemed to God."

According to this interpretation of the gospel-no one has to accept the Gospel because they already have been saved. I will never agree. I cannot turn away from the written words of Jesus and in the three years of His earthly ministry- He taught often about hell.

In the Torah (which He observed)- "sheol" (the world of departed spirits) is the abode of all the dead (Deut. 32:22) and it is taught that a day will come when the bodies of all who are in sheol will be resurrected: some to "everlasting life" but others to "everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

Jesus described hell as a place of "outer darkness" (Mt. 22:13). So for me- hell is a place of continual deterioration and suffering.

Jesus taught that those who were cast into hell were "cast outside" (Mt. 8:12), or as Paul has taught "away from the presence of the Lord" (II Thess. 1:9). So for me- hell is a place of exclusion and loss of the blessings that come from God.

Jesus also taught that hell is a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Mt. 13:42). Paul taught that hell's inhabitants experience "wrath and anger ... trouble and distress" (Rom. 2:8-9). So to my understanding- hell is a place of eternal regret and rage with no redemption.

Exodus 34:7 tells us that though the Lord is "compassionate and gracious, ... He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished." So for me- the LORD brings MERCY and JUDGMENT.

As I said in my other post to you- its not so strange that we disagree. I hope you will try to understand why I believe as I do- as I have tried to understand and not judge your beliefs.

JOEL

I never said that no one goes to hell.

As a matter of fact, I have said that if one were to die and wake up in hell, so to speak, they would know that they built it themselves.

I have also said that spiritual death is real and it is different from hell.

Actually, hell is going to God and in a way seeing yourself and your unrepentant wrongdoing in the Light of Pure Love.

Spiritual death is seperation from God.

Hell and the Lake of Fire are not the same.

God did not create hell, it is personally built by the occupant.

Jesus said that there is work to be done, Jesus said some of you will do greater things than I, Jesus said a lot of things and as I have said, God has all of the bases covered. God knows what He is doing. It is God's Plan, not mine, I am just a messenger.

You or anyone else should do what you feel led by God to do, I am not here to tell anyone what to do or how to live their life.

I have not had a chance to view the http thing yet but if and when I do, I may make some comments about it.

We will all be judged, we are responsible for what we do with our free will, I know that I am chosen by God and somehow God is going to see me thru, if you would, please pray for God's Will.

Like it says numerous places in the bible, it is God's Will that ALL be saved, the seventh day shall arrive in due time, God's Time.

Jesus won the keys to hell and death and He layed them in our laps, so to speak.

As I said and I repeat: God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Dear Thomas Baum:

Are you sure you are not a Christian Universalist?

Christian Universalism is a belief as old as Christianity. Universalists believe that all humans have been saved through Jesus Christ and eventually all will come to a harmony in God's kingdom. Bishop Carlton Pearson (a Universalist) feels he has been called by God to preach the Gospel of Inclusion to the world in this century.

Here are the core beliefs of Inclusion:

Inclusion believes that all people will eventually be reunited with God. Inclusion does believe in Hell; but NOT the traditional Hell of the Bible. Hell is simply the consequences of actions here on earth. Inclusionists believe that for some people there may be some kind of punishment after death- but it will be remedial and corrective rather than an eternal separation from God. Hell is not eternal- it will not be endless. The Lake of Fire is eternal and is reserved for satan and his demons only.

Thomas Baum- please correct me but that sounds like your revelation too. If your message is different from Bishop Pearson's- please explain.

And yes- I pray daily for God's will to be done. Although I know God's will is NOT always done on earth and won't be until His kingdom comes on earth- still it is my desire to see God's truth embraced on earth. And I do not sit with Timothy Shriver on an ash heap and proclaim God has lost His power over His creation. It is my belief that He is, has always been, and will always be omniscient and omnipotent- God over all.

I have prayed also for you- that you might know God's will.

Best wishes.

TERRA GAZELLE: "Anonymous,
No I was not being sarcastic, but truthful. She is a dear friend and I still laugh at her over her disbelief that men can walk on the moon. I have no idea what she has to say about water on Mars.

I also know someone that thinks dinasaurs and men walked the earth side by side...and that there were baby dinos on the ark. Now I must say I have a harder time dealing with that. I talk to her, just not about her wrongheadedness.
You can not prove anyone wrong by ignoring them...now if it was neccessary for the person to know the truth I would work on it...but it's not. And I personally do not have the patience for that stupidity. But I talk to her.
There are some odd folks out there...sayeth the Witch. terra"
AUGUST 1, 2008 9:32 PM

☺*********☺

The first part of your post sounded reasonable. Yes, you friend does have same strange beliefs, but why call her “friend” and at the same time, out of the other side of you mouth make this judgmental statement about her “I talk to her, just not about her wrong-headedness.”
Are you the only wise and true thinker? I would say no
Again, why call her a friend if you feel the following, “if it was necessary for the person to know the truth I would work on it...but it's not.” Aren’t we, as friends, supposed to share, care, and want the best for our friends? So you deem withholding truth as an act of friendship and kindness?
Then you determine your friend to be stupid by saying “And I personally do not have the patience for that stupidity.” What I see occurring here with you and your friend is that you are a judgmental “know it all” and think that you are the one that is right.
Perhaps you are really the one with “wrong-headedness.” “are in need of knowing the truth,” and are in a state of “stupidity.” Find your type of friendship as being “odd” and judgmental of you friend because she thinks differently.
What I do think is that your statement “You can not prove anyone wrong by ignoring them” is out of line completely, sarcastic, and profoundly untrue. Not to mention that you expectations of friendship are all about you, selfish and conceited.
Perhaps your witchery has gone to you head……..thus sayeth the believer of true, unbiased, and unconditional love for a friend.

P.S.
Terra, the next time you claim not be sarcastic but really are, know that you are telling a lie and falsely presenting yourself to you friend…….this is truth you should know.

To Anonymous, who states having a friend who believes "stupidity" such as the idea that man walked this earth with dinosaurs and that there may have been baby dinosaurs on Noah's ark, I have a question.

Why are your friend's ideas any more stupid than the idea that we "evolved" from apes, or that the origin of life itself can be explained by aliens planting it here (as suggested by Richard Dawkins in the movie Expelled)?

Is there any proof for the origin of life? Real proof?

It all comes down to faith, doesn't it? And your friend might choose to have her faith in the word of God, whereas your faith is in something or someone else. Plain and simple.

It's all a matter of faith: "To Anonymous, who states having a friend who believes "stupidity" such as the idea that man walked this earth with dinosaurs and that there may have been baby dinosaurs on Noah's ark, I have a question.

Why are your friend's ideas any more stupid than the idea that we "evolved" from apes, or that the origin of life itself can be explained by aliens planting it here (as suggested by Richard Dawkins in the movie Expelled)?

Is there any proof for the origin of life? Real proof?

It all comes down to faith, doesn't it? And your friend might choose to have her faith in the word of God, whereas your faith is in something or someone else. Plain and simple.

August 3, 2008 3:44 PM |
******************

You have the wrong person, this statement made by you "To Anonymous, who states having a friend who believes "stupidity" such as the idea that man walked this earth with dinosaurs and that there may have been baby dinosaurs on Noah's ark, I have a question," should be directed at TERRA GAZELLE: "

The following is TERRA GAZELLE post "I also know someone that thinks dinasaurs and men walked the earth side by side...and that there were baby dinos on the ark. Now I must say I have a harder time dealing with that. I talk to her, just not about her wrongheadedness."

JOEL

You asked, "Are you sure you are not a Christian Universalist?

I am a Catholic that believes that God's Plan is all-inclusive, God has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation and His Plan Will come to Fruition.

I do not apply any labels to myself, but as I have said, I am a Catholic and I cherish my Catholic Faith and I have also said previously that sometimes I am amazed that the Catholic Faith has survived and even flourished within the Catholic Religion.

Plenty of religions do plenty of good and it is important what someone does and why they do it and also what they know.

God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Jesus is Who He said that He Is which is God-Incarnate, He did say, "I and the Father are One", did He not?

Sometimes, we can let the rules and regulations and dogma and whatever get in the way of God, Who is a Being of Pure Love.

The word "catholic" means universal and there is a reason for that, yes, I believe that God's Plan is for everyone to be with Him in His Kingdom, "the new heavens and the new earth", but as far as calling myself a "Christian Universalist", I don't, I call myself, a catholic Catholic and I also state that I am a messenger chosen by God.

You wrote, " Inclusion does believe in Hell; but NOT the traditional Hell of the Bible. Hell is simply the consequences of actions here on earth.".

What do you believe is "the traditional hell of the bible"?

Why would we be judged for things that we did not do? What kind of God do you think God is? We are responsible for what we do whether or not we accept that responsibility is up to us. We will all be judged.

You wrote, "Thomas Baum- please correct me but that sounds like your revelation too.", I never said that I had a revelation, I said that I met God, the whole Trinity and that I also met satan and I have also mentioned some of the other experiences that I have had. Jesus said, "I will send the Holy Spirit to guide you into All Truth", did He not?

The Holy Spirit works in my life the way that He works in my life and I have to be open to His Workings. I was told in a dream that only I could say it, so I am just doing the "job" that God gave to me.

I am just a messenger and didn't Jesus tell us to "PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS"? If the news is not "GOOD" for everybody ultimately, then it is not GOOD NEWS, it would just be the good enough news, and the so-called "good enough news" is horrible indeed.

There have been many people in both the old and new testament eras that "spoke" for God on their own but were not chosen by God to speak for Him, is it any different today?

I am just here to do my "job", if anyone else feels that they have a "job" of some sort to do for God then that is up to them, it is not my place to say one way or the other that they should or shouldn't do it.

I can't live anyone else's life and no one else can live mine. As it says, "If it is of God, no man is going to stop it and if it isn't, then it will just fizzle out on it's own" or words to that effect.

I did not ask for this "job" but I have said YES.

You also wrote, "If your message is different from Bishop Pearson's- please explain.", I do not know what "Bishop Pearson's" message is.

What I have said plainly and simply is that: God wins Total Victory, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable; the captives shall be released and the dead shall rise; Jesus won the keys to hell and death and will use them in due time, God's Time and in the meantime He has, so to speak, put them in our laps; God's Plan is for ALL to be with Him in His Kingdom, "the new heavens and the new earth".

I am not asking you to believe what I have written and continue to write, but do you understand what I am saying here?

A question, do you think that God asked us to be more forgiving and more merciful than God Himself?

You also wrote, " It is my belief that He is, has always been, and will always be omniscient and omnipotent- God over all.", sure He is and He knows what He is doing and He has a Plan which He has had since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition and God has asked us to be active participants in His Plan.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.