Comments (67)

Dear Dr Shriver

You have brought up a very important topic for discussion. Sex: every child needs to be informed at an early age in order to make wise decisions when the hormones begin to blind their vision and compromise their judgments. All of us need to have a good head over our shoulders and good control over our hearts and bodies, all our lives, no matter how well informed we may be in our heads!

I wish to share with you a reading list I posted elsewhere on the On Faith forum over a year ago:

1. Jonathan Livingston Seagull
by Richard Bach

2. Siddharta by Hermann Hesse

3. The Book of Proverbs (The Old Testament)

4. Sexuality (essay) by C S Lewis

5. An apropos to Lady Chatterley's Lover,
(essay) by D H Lawrence

6. The Art of Loving by Erich Fromm

7. The Road Less Travelled by Scott M Peck

8. The Ramayana (Hindu Epic)

9. Books by Patrick Carnes: Don't Call it
Love, Out of the Shadows, Betrayal Bond...

10. Women who love too much by Robin Norwood

11. The Casanova Complex by Peter Trachtenberg

12. Mount Misery by Samuel Shem (a hilarious
take on Freudian psychoanalysis)

MEEEEEEE. . .,

I didn't perceive the references to "love making" in the article as "mechanical" nor "clinical". The act of performing sex can be accomplished without passion. After reading the article again, I still think Tim was indicating that the act of having sex can be mechanical and only represent immediate gratification. However, when it is mixed with love and kept in pure context, it then blossoms into the emotional erotica and connection it deserves. He sounds extremely sensitive and passionate in the article to me.

Can I ask what in the article gave you that impression?

Well Tim liked your article but you make sex seem very mechanical and clinical.You strike me as been very passionate and romantic man so i am not convinced you really mean some of what you are writing and must wonder if it is not for the benefit of others in your life.........

I have a comment for all the people who attempt to ridicule the author of this column because of his family. Where does your anger come from? Yes, Tim's family has had both good times and not-so-good times, so has every family in the world. The difference in his and ours, is the media involvement. We all have family issues, it is how we resolve them that proves our integrity.

Maybe the bellie-achers who want to complain and suggest that Tim can’t know what he is talking about, should first do their research on the accomplishments of his entire family. I have never read about another family that has contributed so much to making the world better for all of us. Sargent and Eunice have given more to the world than most the readers of this article have even thought of. And to top it off, they raised a wonderful family at the same time. I don’t know how they did it. You can say, “Well, they are the Kennedy’s”, or “They are the Shrivers”. Their namesake, I’m sure, is a benefit when they are working on a project, but their namesake does not give them the insight, the tenacity, the motivation, the compassion, the vision for accomplishing world changing missions.

I once had a boss who would tell me, “You should never get efforts confused with results. A man can work hard pushing mud all his life, but what does he have to show for it? Just a big pile of mud.” So tell me, do you (the one’s wearing the “Kennedy” blinders) have more than mud to show for your efforts through life? Have you given face and reason for living to hundreds of thousands of people globally? Have you sat down and tried to come up with programs to address world hunger, education, prejudice, … and then seen them through to fruition?

My father taught me that you can disagree without being hateful. He often told me, “Love is as much about what you do, as what you feel.” I, for one, will continue to read every word this Kennedy-Shriver writes and try to learn how I too can help change the world. There are already too many people who choose to sit around complaining. I refuse to be that person.

Pagan,

I'm not suggesting that public school children be tought an "abstinence only" education. They should be taught what abstinence means and what the physical and mental benefits are. You can say abstinence doesn't work until you're blue in the face, but I've had personal experiences with this subject matter and have seen wonderful results.

Brambleton:

"If sex for you is how fast you can achieve 60 seconds of exhilaration, then you're remark is probably accurate. But if sex is something infinitely more than that, you'll probably need to know more than penis and vagina."

*chuckle.*
No, 'ROFL.' :)

Sixty seconds?! Yes, I think maybe knowing a bit more than that is called for, whatever your religion. :)

How very Victorian. What's next, 'Close your eyes and think of England? Shall we go on back to that? :)

"Also, I'm guessing you are referring to abstinence when you speak of religion in the classroom? If so, what bugs you the most about it? Is it the fact that abstinent men & women have a 0% STD rate or a 0% unwanted pregnancy rate?"

Probably it's that abstinence non-education actually increases both these things, since it *doesn't work,* And *when* it doesn't work, it leaves people ignorant and vulnerable to both exploitation and unnecessary suffering.

Pie-in-the-sky beliefs that abstinence-only education will substitute for people having healthy understandings of their bodies and how to protect them *hurt* people when applied through the state.

You teach kids 'Don't have sex,' it'll keep you safe, then they start getting ideas of what risky behaviors 'don't count' absent any real information. This is what comes out of 'Abstinence education.' It's happening all over.

Who could have said it better?

"Really, how can one put a book in the hands of children which contains that vile dictum: 'to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband..It is better to marry than to burn?' (I Cor. 7:2,9) And how can one be Christian as long as the notion of immaculate conception christianizes, that is, dirties, the origin of man?"

Gotta love a document (Bible) that condemns itself on virtually every page. Pick one at random!, and prove me wrong!

Hank,

The act of sex, in and of itself, is not a "failing", and any Christian church that intimates that is not using a Biblical foundation.

Your reference to Gov. Spitzer is comical. This isn't a question of what goes on inside the bedroom. Gov. Spitzer BROKE THE LAW. He prosecuted and jailed individuals who were engaged in the exact same crime as he was! On the taxpayers dime no less!!

Sad that you see no issues with the trafficking of 12 & 13 year olds for prostitution. Maybe you're convinced they want to sell their bodies for sex?

Mobedda,

You stated that kids understanding their bodies better means they'll also understand sex better. Perhaps the disconnect comes not from a religious perspective, but our differences in what sex really is.

Understanding your own body is clearly paramount to achieving your own orgasm, but it does little else. Knowing that I have a penis and girls have a vagina offers no help in regards to sexual intimacy. The idea of two people becoming "one flesh" is completely lost in your analysis.

If sex for you is how fast you can achieve 60 seconds of exhilaration, then you're remark is probably accurate. But if sex is something infinitely more than that, you'll probably need to know more than penis and vagina.

Also, I'm guessing you are referring to abstinence when you speak of religion in the classroom? If so, what bugs you the most about it? Is it the fact that abstinent men & women have a 0% STD rate or a 0% unwanted pregnancy rate?

T. Shriver - Excellent article! I'm atheist and so cannot agree with most of what you say, but reading a thoughtful, religious essay on sexuality is always a treat!

Sex education should always be more than just the mechanics and biology, which is usually where the schools stop teaching (as they should).

Providing the proper context for biological knowledge so that students can actually make informed decisions in the real world?...that is (and should be) in the hands of parents/guardians.

With both knowledge and context, students are much more likely to "succeed" (i.e. make good decisions to stay STD-free, to remain abstinent until marriage, or whatever) when the real test begins...the commencement their own sexual relationships.

Thanks again,
Craig

While I agree wholeheartedly with the secular views and the Pagan views expressed here, and I personally think the "Holy Church" is a marauding crock that does more harm than good, we need to remember this this *is* a faith category, so expect religious views to be expressed here.

In the meantime, I applaud any effort within religious viewpoints that step in the right direction of eliminating hangups about our bodies.

To that end, I like what the author has written. The author isn't attacking people who see sex differently, but is only giving his own view.

Nothing wrong with that.

http://churchstatewall.typepad.com/

If I'm not mistaken the title is Religion from the Heart and is an opinion piece. I wonder why those commentators who do not believe in religion (God) bother to read or comment.

I happen to and as a parent of a fifth grader myself, I thought this article to be well written and helpful. Thank you

"comfort with our bodies doesn’t mean abuse of our spirits"

If we're lucky it does. Oh wait, you said abuse of our 'spirits,' that's not nearly as much fun.

We have spirits? What evidence do you have of that? What evidence do you have of this 'God' you so foolishly follow? Why should your ancient anachronistic beliefs in any way affect me or my child?

Keep your religious ignorance to yourself, and we'll keep our sexual enlightenment to ourselves. You wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

See, this is where religion fails, by turning human biological behavior into a human "failing". There is no kind of morality that has or ever will have any effect on sex and human biology. Sex is not some devine gift, it is simple human biology. Humans fail by not just accepting that it is a simple process, dictated by nature. We are the ones that complicate it by piling a bunch of societal crap on it. Society makes it a crime for a woman to sell her body for sex, but it's quite alright for advertisers on TV to use that same body, scantily clad with the thinly veiled promise of sex. In the case of the two governors, the religious freaks think it is their right to know what goes on in the bedrooms or the hotel room of our elected leaders, and to judge them for it. Would it be more acceptable if they had been at home with their wives, hanging by ropes tied to their wrists, clad in leather, gagged with a rubber ball, getting a lamp stuck in their arse. As long as someone does a good job at what they do, what they choose to do sexualy with another consenting adult is no ones business but their own, not even religious vouyer freaks like the one that wrote this article. Sex is a simple biological process, dictated by nature. Teach it as such, and keep your personal morality to yourself, and our society will be fine.

Thank you Tim for your insights. I can see the teachings of the Holy Church permeating your beautiful insights into the mystery of being.

"...just because they understand their bodies better doesn’t mean they’ll understand sex any better."

Yes, it means precisely that.

Also: you put religion in my classroom, I'm bringing sex to your church. Deal?

Separation of Church and State.... it's the American way. If you don't like it, leave. May I suggest Iran or Saudi Arabia?

TC:
**I do feel a sense of pity and sorrow for the authors of comments that indicate God has no part in the sexual relationship. On the contrary, the mystique you talk of is profoundly rich in theology - but a non-believer has no way to realize the passion you speak of without a true connection with creation, redemption, Christ and his church.**

So are you saying that only Christians have the capacity for a loving, fulfilling, committed relationship that includes sex?
I am Pagan, and I can assure you that making love with my husband is both an intensely pleasurable physical experience as well as a deeply spiritual one. But Jesus has nothing to do with it, nor do the other members of the various religious groups with which I associate.

**Removing the mystery from sex, only desensitizes a child’s heart to the full pleasure it can someday provide. It becomes nothing more than a yawn away from a good night's sleep.**

Giving children accurate information about how their bodies work does not make sex merely mechanical. Sex need not be mysterious to be meaningful. The meaning in sex is derived from the relationship people have with their clothes on.

**I hope I have, and I continue to, instill a sense of privilege, mystique, intimacy, submission and joy about the sexual experience to all my children.**

I'm not sure how you're defining "privilege" or "mystique" so I won't address those terms. Intimacy is most definitely a good thing, and is not restricted to sex. There is no submission in my marriage, whether in the bedroom or out.
I hope I have instilled in my daughter an appreciation and joy in the sensations her body is able to experience, whether with a lover or by herself, and the ability to expand those sensations by experiencing them with someone she loves. That, to me, is where the joy in sex comes from.

You'd be much better of complaining to yourself and your obvious secular and totalitarian values than blaming The church or any church for bogus values that originate in your mind, not mine.

no, No, NO! Sex education IN THE HOME should involve parental input and religious reflection.

Sex education in TAX-PAYER PUBLIC SCHOOLS should be fact-based, all-inclusive, and free from ANY religious input whatsoever.

This is just more of the neo-con radical evangelical insurgency that is as threatening to our Nation and The Constitution as Osama bin Laden. Actually, 8 years of ReThuglican Mis-administration has done more damange to our Nation than Osama could have ever hoped for.

Once again, Tim Shriver is pushing his religious beliefs on us. How boring and inappropriate.

It was wonderful to see that many of those who do not have faith in God took time to read your column. Certainly they are searching for answers if they took the time to read it. Some of the responses show me that there are many hurt people out in the world that have not substained good relationships but perhaps have had many bad ones that have hardened their hearts. I pray that eventually they find the answers they are looking for.

We all deal with our passions and sex is just one of them. But I must say that for me personally sex is the big passion in my life the threatens to control me. Everyone struggles to control their passions: lust, drugs, greed, eating or not eating, arrogance, pornography, and many more. We too often lose our battles with our passions when we rely on only our human power. But through Christ we have help and this I can say from personal experience is the only thing that has thus far saved me from my own passions. Education helps but when you get down to it: there but for the grace of God I go too.

John 8:34-36 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, every one who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not continue in the house for ever; the son continues for ever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Acts 1:08 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

If Spitzer were an drunk instead of a sex addict, would we have to sit through self-righteous meditations on the powerful mystery of booze?

Instead of shrouding the subject in awe, maybe we should take this as an opportunity to explain how sex can go wrong. They are far better equipped with understanding and respect than with mystery and awe.

And remember also the divine gift of eating, that you take it not for granted. "Never confuse it with the selfish, the meaningless, the desperate." We can never demystify eating so treat food with awe. And eat only once a week.

Look at all the lonely, confused, and sexually frustrated athiests outted here.

"But it doesn’t explain last week’s headlines, because last week’s headlines were about human failings—and like many human failings, they were sexual."

I always cringe when I hear drivel such as this. Perhaps the problem is not the sexual act, but the sin and guilt that we, as puritan Americans, tie to any act of sexuality outside of the confines of marriage. Have you ever noticed that such acts just don't make headlines in other countries? Have you ever asked yourself why? Is it that these acts don't occur elsewhere? I doubt it. Men are men, and women are women pretty much anywhere in the world. It is only we highly sexually intolerant Americans who spread such events over the tabloids whenever possible. Yes, there is no polite way to put it: we are sexual prudes, pure and simple. My God, if you need any proof of this, just look at the outrage and media storm initiated when a woman (Janet Jackson) had the audacity to show a breast on public TV. A breast!! Such acts in other countries would have been laughed at and given no more attention then a bad commercial. Just what is it about we Americans and sex?

Both sex and love are beautiful things to be cherished and enjoyed. But they don't necessarily need each other. As long as both parties are willing, respectful of each other, and responsible regarding the outcomes, what happens behind closed doors is no ones business except those involved. By identifying a sexual act with a "human failure", you perpetuate the archaic, victorian-era attitude which has plagued this society for decades. Perhaps we should worry more about the state of our economy and the free-fall value of our dollar more, and leave the sexual acts of our leaders behind closed doors, where they rightly belong.

I did not know that the Washington Post had such low standards for discussants.

Religion and Sex...? Nonsense. That is almost as disruptive a combined force as "Church and State".

Perhaps if children with concerned, loving parents should try to explain the almost "Spiritual" connection between our bodies and the act of love, they would teach not only responsible choices by our kids, but also help develop healthy relationships between parents and kids.

"Guilting" them by tying God and "hell" to the sex act, and they will immediately get the exact opposite reaction and behaviors they want their children to avoid.

Seems so simple... but the "puritanical" laws of Religion just don't get the same results, ever.

I always get that sickening, sinking feeling when someone who seems rational and liberal (he's a Kennedy for Pete's sake!) starts talking about the "spiritual life" as if such has been shown to exist anywhere outside of the speaker's/writer's fantasy. I do see the attraction in believing in an invisible, supernatural friend who is going to make everything work out for me, but what about when things don't work out - not just for me, but for millions of people? The good news is that believing in the mystery and beauty of life and existence itself doesn't require belief in a mind-reading superhero who is majorly passive-aggressive. Reality without such a fantasy is beautiful and awesome enough all by itself.

What a ridiculous article.

Perhaps next time, try to actually focus on one topic!

Moron!

Well intentioned drivel.

Hasn't religion made enough of a mess about sex?

We have it all backwards. It isn't sex that's the problem, but our attitudes about how we treat others.

If religion spent a fraction of the time teaching people how to treat others with respect that they currently devote to instilling bizarre beliefs about sex, many of our problems would vanish into thin air.

Whaddaya mean, sex is sinful? All those priests wouldn't be having sex with boys if sex were sinful! C'mon, people, let's be reasonable here....

Yes, the Catholics do a number on you. I know a good brain-unwasher/exorcist that can help you forget. 555-1234

This "mysterious" nature of sex was not the attitude conveyed to me by the Catholic Church as I grew up. It was more along the lines of "it's all sinful."

I wish I could divorce myself from the lessons I absorbed.

And, I think the Church today has no reason to talk about sex to anyone, given its horrible hypocrisy vis a vis the child sexual abuse that has been going on for centuries.

It has harmed families, tearing them apart, including mine. Let's say it ruins your sex life!

T,

Having raised two biological children, seven foster children, and in the process of raising a beautiful adopted 10 year-old, I feel you! Anticipate the questions - you can't. Decode all the dialogue - you can't. Ten year-olds are in a world of doors to open, and they will try to open them if given a nudge. Unfortunately, many parents aren't as focused and insightful to which doors their children are opening, as you are. As I've heard you say that your parents were always a positive and critical part of your growing up process, I'm sure your own children will say the same about you some day.

I too have thought about the politicians, priests, preachers, celebrities and others who want us to trust them, but give us so many reasons not to. We are living in a world of sexual promiscuity. It is evident by the continuing rise in teen pregnancies and venereal disease. I don't believe this is a result of not handing out enough free condoms, birth-control pills and safe-sex.

Our children are inundated with a clandestine view of intimacy, and are inoculated with the notion that love-and-sex-synergy is passé'. So many television programs, music videos and box-office hits offer this pristine generation the idea that sex is only for a ravenous and precipitous gratification. How sad indeed. The loving commitment between two people and qualities like patience, loyalty, purity and trust are destroyed by what has been referred to as "cheap sex".

Our country boasts so many programs, research projects and statistic gathering money pits. It would be interesting to conduct a study on the effects of movie and television's "if it feels good do it" attitude, and musicians who choose to sell their music to our children while caressing their genitals and acting out orgasms on stage, and analyze those effects on the moral fiber of our nation. I'm sure most things I watch and listen to do nothing to cultivate a nutritious agar plate that grows caring and loving marital intimacy. We even buy our daughters dolls that are dressed like the hookers that line up on Jefferson Avenue in Detroit. I saw a toddler aged doll the other day that was dressed in a short skirt, halter top, had a little bar set up and had a cocktail glass of milk. Yikes!

I do feel a sense of pity and sorrow for the authors of comments that indicate God has no part in the sexual relationship. On the contrary, the mystique you talk of is profoundly rich in theology - but a non-believer has no way to realize the passion you speak of without a true connection with creation, redemption, Christ and his church.

Removing the mystery from sex, only desensitizes a child’s heart to the full pleasure it can someday provide. It becomes nothing more than a yawn away from a good night's sleep.

I hope I have, and I continue to, instill a sense of privilege, mystique, intimacy, submission and joy about the sexual experience to all my children. There are many people in the world who would rob them of this, and it is my responsibility to arm them with knowledge (like your child is receiving at school and at home), and watch them like a hawk (of course, we can't let them know we are doing that).

t

What's God got to do with it? Where was God when thousands of men failed to achieve a sustainable erection? Where was God when the condom broke! There is no God!

Doubtbuster sets up a false dichotomy. Sex is mere brain chemistry? Love another thing entirely?

Sex at its best is necessarily imbued with love. Sex at its worst is devoid of love. The two are certainly separable, but the "mystery" (which some posters seem to deny) has to do with how they can be united, how it's best when they are, and sadly how we still so often fail to accomplish that union.

It's not fair to characterize this as "abstract, pious, spiritual mumbo-jumbo." The language may not seem sufficiently prosaic, but that's only because the phenomenon we're tracking is a difficult one.

But that doesn't mean we should deny the phenomenon outright. There is a mystery of sexuality. Why do we have it? Why do we associate it with love? Can't anyone recognize that human sexuality and love go together? That they complement one another? Don't we all tend to desire loving lovers? This seems to me a plain, observable, universal fact.

The elusive problem--i.e., the mystery--entails both trying to account for it (on a theoretic level) and trying to achieve it (on a practical level).

Excellent column. My comment to "JAD": "Restrict it (sex) to an unconditional promise" seems pretty clear to me: The for-better-or-worse commitment of marriage.

My comment to the Wash. Post: Whatever of value are you getting with these comment postings?

Nothing like a barrage of abstract, pious, spiritual mumbo-jumbo to demystify sex for us. I especially like "Restrict it [sex] to an unconditional promise." Do you imagine there is a competent speaker of English who has the slightest idea of what that means?

Some people have left comments about how much better things were in the good old days before sex ed. I wonder how they square that with the fact that the teen childbirth rate in the U.S. peaked in 1957.

The metaphysical aspect of sex is timeless. It's just weird to connect it to a religious culture that has found defenses in its holy writings for slavery and destruction of a native people. I have yet to see waves of megachurch christians descend into our abandoned industrial cities and help to transform and rebuild them. Does that make you yearn to reproduce for your god?

Religious reflection? WHICH religion?

There are many religions in the world for all human kind. Open your eyes and open your heart, you will learn a lot.

"But if we look to the spiritual life for insight, we might be inspired by a simple but helpful reminder: sexuality is a mystery and a powerful one at that. It’s not just a matter of physical urge or emotional need: sexuality is a life force, a transcendent gift, a reminder of our power, a reminder of our vulnerability."

Thank you Mr. Shriver - you have finally provided me with the right words to say next time someone tells me I'm not allowed to get married in my own country because I'm gay. Do you think they'll understand now? It's certainly never been a "choice" for me. It IS me.

Sex isn't a mystery. Anyone who says it is is delusional... or brought up in ignorance and to fear it.

I have little empathy for religious complications regarding sex ed. What do we expect kids to believe... that a magic man in the sky is watching them? Well yes, that's pretty much it. Which is why you can't expect people to adhere to rules when the authority figure behind them is invisible, immaterial, and magical (and doesn't actually ever do anything).

Teach the mechanics and teach exactly how to prevent pregnancy and STDs if they DO have sex. Which they will. It's that simple.

Religious admonishment against sex is so easily explained it seems silly to have to go through the task every time the devout attempt to insert crazy divine mystery into simple biology. So I'll add my log to the fire... Human beings haven't been able to square the fact that our bodies are "built" with the entertainment center right next to the waste disposal plant. I'm sure it seemed like a bad design to even the most backward screwheads. So to solve the dilemma of a stupid "creator," primitives lumped the whole district into "the forbidden zone" and made up all kinds of rules governing its use. Thank goodness modern man has moved past all these iron age ideas and has vanquished these silly notions forever.

Myra comments that she doesn`t want any sex education that suggests or implies a perspective involving the Almighty.Her view and others can be respected by getting our schools out of the sex education business.The reality is we survived
very nicely for years with our children getting that training at home.When that didn`t happen,we still managed to raise healthy kids without the high incidence of today`s pregnancy rates among teens,or the explosion in the STD numbers that we confront today.

"a simple but helpful reminder: sexuality is a mystery and a powerful one at that". Uhm, last time I checked, sexuality is pretty much brain chemistry. Now, love is a different story, but apparently that's not what you're referring to.

I certainly do not want teachers to teach my kids that sexuality is a gift from a god, since that would imply that a god exists and that the school took for granted that a god exists and expected my kids to accept the existance of this god.
My kids have a right not to have religion pushed on them that way, I would hope.
The author implies that his core message of sexuality being a gift frm a god "remains powerful across different religions and times". Perhaps across religions, but the author does not eem to have a problem with discriminating against people like me. I do not believe in any god that can bestow any gifts and neither do my school age kids.
Leave the gods out of any class except comparative religion. That way, if the author wants to tell his kids that there is a god that can bestow gifts like a cosmic santa, he is free to do so, but after school, in his home, so that my kids are not forced to sit through attempts to indoctrinate them in a beliefsystem.

" ...this is a tough conversation to have."

I suggest that this is so only for parents who have not reconciled themselves to the fact that their children have inalienable rights to accurate medical, social and psychological information about sex, reproduction, health and marriage. Any parent who him or herself has accurate information free of somebody else's "dogma" can handle this conversation. People who themselves have hang-ups about sex cannot possibly give their kids he information they deserve.

One sad thing I’ve discovered, thanks to the web, is that every dummy with a keypad believes he has something relevant, original or intelligent to say. I wish I could buy back the hours I’ve spent discovering how untrue that is.

Sex: so it is written, so it shall be done.

God made the world, the naked flesh and the devil. Then he said, "mix it up and have some fun lovin'."

Sex! Thank you God, thank you!!!!

Heck of a topper, mate!

What about ultra-kink? Biological cornucopia! Abuse is use, Juice.

Mr. Shriver had me up until he wrote: "sexuality is a mystery and a powerful one at that."

Sexuality is not a mystery. It is only a mystery to those who have been led to think there's something inherently risque, bad or wicked about it, i.e. religious people.

I'm glad I'm an atheist.

Three of these posts remind me of "This is your brain on drugs" commercials.

Sadly, it seems it's only some immature narcissist who has nothing better to do than post drug-addled drivel here.

Just so, Lepi. Frankly, I find kids raised by Pagans to generally have their heads on straight about this stuff, in stark contrast to some of the culture at large. :)

I have no objection to schools teaching kids how boy bodies work and how girl bodies work. My daughter hasknown how babies are made since she was four.

Since different people have different values regarding sex, I think those need to be taught by the parents.

I happen to be one of those people who don't have an issue with people engaging in recreational sex as long as only consenting adults are involved, no one is breaking a trust by participating, and everyone is on the same page as to what the "rules" are. Of course, finding out the answers to these questions generally involves a certain depth of intimacy long before the clothes come off. And that's what I taught my daughter.

She's now 18, and she and her boyfriend and their five cats and a dog just moved into their first apartment together, and are planning to be married next year. I couldn't be happier for her.

There are others who believe that sex is only "right" if it's between one man and one woman and only after they have been joined by an ordained minister in a church, a license has been filed with the clerk of court, and she takes his last name. They are entitled to their opinion, but I don't want my child taught that.

Hmmm, getting procreation and sex advice from a member of the Kennedy clan is just very, very strange!!!!

I think, in his own way, the author is trying to move us past the fears and hangups that aren't even justified by the *Christian* religion.

Any such effort is commendable, especially if it benefits Christianity, too. Christianity isn't as bad as its Pharisees make it out to be.

(I'm just no longer Christian.)

The Pagan take on sex is the best, IMHO.

There's a difference between a Mystery and *mystification.* Willful ignorance, disinformation, and 'hangups' about sexuality do not enhance the mysteries inherent, ...in fact, they tend to block awareness of them. When people are too wound up in fears and pent-up desires, that's when abuses of these gifts happen.

It certainly doesn't make any sense to connect your daughter's apparently-good sex education with the peccadilloes of an old politician who probably never saw anything of the sort in his own day, and who clearly was all bound up in hypocritically prosecuting sex-workers, while (because, likely,) he compulsively sought them out himself.

These things don't connect like that.

I would more connect the hypocrisy of politicians and religious leaders with those trying to *stop* proper sex education in favor of merely telling kids to 'just say no, ' ...and to know nothing.

Ignorance and denial is what leads to abuses, as well as tragic mishaps, not knowledge and understanding and self-acceptance.

"At its simplest, . . .sexuality is a gift from the divine. Embrace it with unconditional love. Treat it with care. En