All Comments (25)

Thomas Baum,

I like what you said. I would like to add on to that. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. Imagine having a car and the key to the car. If you never take the key and put it in the ignition you will never be able to start the engine and drive the car. If you have faith but no good works, you have not put your faith into action. It is dorment.

The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. Consider this: God's Word instructs believers to be disciples for Jesus Christ--meaning to witness. Our witness begins with our lifestyle. If we allow sin to get in the way of our Christian walk then our witness becomes null and void. Faith without works is dead: we are not working out our faith. If we are not working out our faith God cannot use us. The ultimate punishment is death. That means though you are saved, God will end your earthly life because you are not fulfilling your purpose. If you are not fulfilling your purpose on earth, then He obviously cannot use you here.

It is only faith through grace which is Jesus Christ that has saving power. Remember, the thief on the cross did not have an opportunity to do good works. But because he believed in Christ, Jesus remembered him and said that he would be with Him in heaven.

One last thing: Do not be quick to judge someone as being saved or not. Many seemingly spiritual people will go to Hell straight from the church, while seemingly "worldly" people will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only God knows the hearts of His people. You just make sure you know where YOU are going!

Faith: Love: Works:

What are these? How do they fit together?
For a few thousand years mankind has described itself as made of head, heart and hand or body: With 1- head meaning mind, intellect, with 2 - heart meaning emotions, love, feelings, with 3 - body meaning action, behavior.

Thus faith involves the intellect, love involves the emotions, and behavior involves the body.

Further, each of these abilities is operated by a separate, independent, but tremendously interconnected brain: The intellect is operated by the cerebral cortex brain, the heart or love by the limbic brain, the body by the reptilian brain. Each brain can communicate with other persons, can remember and can reason by experience, trial and error, imagining, etc.

These three brains are constantly working together and constantly interacting with word or in the mind. The famous Harvard professor William James called these streams of inner feelings, thoughts, and behavior – body language, ‘streams of consciousness’.

Here are examples of streams of consciousness:
You wake up in the morning (action). You feel lousy (emotion). You get that new medicine (action). You read the instructions (intellect). You take the medicine (action). You feel better (emotion). You get the newspaper (action). You read the paper (intellect). You read some bad news and feel sad (emotion). Then you read (intellect) some good news and feel better (emotion). You think about your investments (intellect). You write a note to your broker (action). Your sore thumb is still hurting (emotion).You pour a cup of coffee (action).It tastes good (emotion). You calculate you are going to need a new tin of coffee soon (intellect).
And so it goes. Even if you are just sitting there having a cup of coffee, your mind is still active and switching between feelings, intellect, action, and thoughts. Even in your dreams it does not stop.

Now we notice people vary greatly in their nature of using these three brains or abilities or drives. Some people are very emotional, others are very intellectual, and others are very physical, in their thinking and behavior. It is said that a good salesperson will immediately size up a new client to see how he should be appealed to, i.e. intellectually, emotionally or physically. Because this affects the way a person commonly thinks and makes decisions. Some people weigh the pros and cons etc, and use their intellect in making decisions. Business people make a lot of decisions based on experience and habit and can not tell you precisely intellectually why or how they made the decision. Einstein often thought in terms of diagrams and intuition. Many Americans are idealists – what should be? Many English use tradition, experience – what’s done in these circumstances? Their so-called constitution has been a behavioral, traditional one in contrast to the American intellectual, legal one. A religious person, in effect, tries to follow the interpretation the mystic gives of his experiences of meditation with God. Polls show that people are seldom fired for lack of intellectual skills but for behavioral or relationship reasons. Many companies with a high hiring turnover are now also checking applicants for emotional development and relationship skills.

Some people’s intellect is not highly developed or used but their emotions and behavior are well developed and used. Others are well developed in their behavior and not in the intellect and emotions. And so on with various combinations and degrees of development.

Now that we have an outline of the workings of a human being in this area i.e. what is available for them to work with and how it usually operates, then we are ready to see the possibilities that each person has available to use for religion and worship.

In regard to a person’s religious development and use of these three brains it often follows their life-long natural development Some are great Christians due to their great love (God is love), others have a great faith due to their intellectual development and still others are great Christians because of their great works.

To be a Christian all three areas, emotion, intellect and behavior must be dedicated to follow Christ no matter how much or how little each is developed and used. All abilities are essential. Any combination of development is important. As the nature of our decision-making and the nature of our ‘streams of consciousness show – no one ability is in charge all the time.

So faith (intellect), love (emotions), and works (behavior) are all essential and the use and importance of each will vary with each person in religion and in daily life.

To express it one way: As St. Paul, Martin Luther, and others have indicated, the important key to being a Christian is to have Jesus Christ live in you (and you in him) and have Christ be your guide. This daily guiding of course involves every thought, feeling, and behavior.

Quote: King James version, ROMANS Chapter 8, verse 1 and 2.
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Peter Jackson

I am a retired Chartered Accountant who has taken quite an interest in consciousness, religion and spirituality.

To Yo-Yo: Welcome to the book of revelation, you haven't seen nothing yet, it will even appear that satan wins but he doesn't. The True,Living, Triune, Triumphant God will win Total Victory and despite what you or anyone else may think, God is nothing like what a lot of people who call themselves christians say. We all have free will and what we do with it is what we will be judged on, the victory for all of humanity has already been sealed, my job is to proclaim the "Good News". Pretty simple job for a pretty simple person, is anyone listening, did anyone listen to the Old Testament Moses. Whether people believe that satan is real or not is immaterial because he is real and he is not nice at all. God is actually Love, a Being of Love, I would say that could be kind of hard to believe considering all the putrid hatred being spouted out by a lot of people that do know His Name and that seems to be about all that some people know about God, His Name. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

There is ladies and gentlemen a difference between Sanctification and salvation. The Book of life was written before the Foundation of the world - before God ever said let there be light - therefore whether or not God chooses to rescue you from your fallen state was determined before you were born. Thus if you have been saved you will always be saved. Snactification however is the conforming of one's heart to the spirit of God and that is a process that will never be complete this side of heaven.

I think children are most certainly born "sinners". As someone mentioned earlier, we are all born inherently self absorbed.

I appreciate how honest small children are. I'll never forget how one time I specifically told a bright, happy three year old to bring me one of his toys. He looked me in the eyes and threw it on the floor.

Rather than a reprimand I brought him over and asked him, "Why did you do that?"

He looked at me straight face and said "Because I want to do what I want to do."

WINSTON CHURCHILL

20th c. British politician. In 1920, he wrote a long newspaper article on the recent Bolshevik seizure of Russia. After praising what he called the “national Jews” of Russia, he said : “There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. . . In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astounding… The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.” (”Zionism Versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People.” Illustrated Sunday Herald, London, February 8, 1920).

Faith not works.

For you say, if I sleep with my neighbors wife I have committed adultery, I say if you THINK about doing it in your heart, you have already committed adultery, and have fallen short of the glory of god.

My job involves working with children under age three. There is a certain level of empathy that is shown by children. One of the things we look for is an awareness that another child or a parent is upset and they often will try to do what they can to make them feel better. This has been found in some children as young as 12 months, but tends to be more prevalent in slightly older ones, somewhere between two and three.

There is also a lot of selfishness. Both of these are in a sort of tug of war at all times. Just like adults. The difference with children is that adults are around to correct any misbehavior and model what should be done, but there really isn't anyone around these days to model real compassion for the adults in the same way. For so many adults it's about revenge. 'they did x to me first!' It's amazing how childish adults sometimes get.

If there was someone to lead the way, all the religious extremists would have their toys taken away and be in time out. :)

If salvation is a wonderful eternal after life condition given at the discretion of some spiritual being called God, then it certainly seems wise to do whatever it takes to get it RIGHT NOW.

On the other hand, if (as I believe) salvation is a life long process, a never permanent condition that we can gain or lose in each of the moments of life, then it seems wise to figure out how to get it and keep it in each moment. How? For me the answer is by behaving virtuously and by nourishing our spiritual nature.

Concerning little children: They are not born sinners as some Christians claim. Rather they are born neutral, and while heredity plays a role, we are to a very high degree what we learn. So somebody needs to teach the children well.

By the way you don't seem to have spent much time with kids below the age of 5.

My daughter works in child care and will cheerfully point out that in her experience your belifs about 2-4 year olds is hopelessly naive.

"Garyd:
Selfishness need have nothing to do with violence.

I've yet to see a baby that cared one whit whether you were in the middle of important phone call or not if it wanted food or needed a fresh diaper"

TOUCHE!!!!! HAHAHHAH!

Selfishness need have nothing to do with violence.

I've yet to see a baby that cared one whit whether you were in the middle of important phone call or not if it wanted food or needed a fresh diaper.

"Garyd:
Good morals are not inbred in us save to the extent we are taught them what is inbred in us is pure unadulterated selfishness."

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. Young children do not behave violently unless they have a mental disorder. They turn to each other with smiles and like to play and feel and touch.

You can put children (prior to religious indoctrination) whith each other and there will no harm be done. They see each other as fellow human beings, albeit small ones, and have genuine caring for each other.

Adults are the ones that are selfish for whatever reason.

Good morals are not inbred in us save to the extent we are taught them what is inbred in us is pure unadulterated selfishness.

Check out Marc Hauser, The Moral Mind, and discover that good works are innate to the species (as well as other species capable of selfless works) no need for the mumbo jumbo. All human beings innately know how to work well with other human beings.

All religions do is steal that good nature from the simple minded and turn them against other religious simpletons, and all for the profit of people like Prof. Balmer.

Thank you!

Bob

Why do we need a bible to know faith and good deeds?

We are born of the spirit itself, we all know right from wrong without needing some so-called holy scripture to tell us good versus evil.

The "(un)holy scriptures" do nothing but convolute the morals inbred in us.

IT just asks us to honor all IT created and to do our utmost to keep IT's works alive.

That is all we need to do!

Who cares? Do good works because they are good and ditch the supernatural BS.

All the examples here just demonstrate how much the too are indeed inseparable. What I don't like about making faith a precondition is that many people really can not control what they believe. What is comfortable and credible to one person is a fairy tale to the next. The latter person might want to believe, but it's not something most of us can force.
This is why I've always thought that the groups who emphasize good works were on to something:
Just like you can sometimes fall asleep more easily if you just lie still and close your eyes, you can make yourself more accessible to faith if you are already following good practices.

Thomas Baum

The greatest demonstration of the power of Faith I ever saw was on 9/11 when devout men of Faith flew planes into the World Trade Center.
Faith is not just a simple minded concept but a most dangerous one.
It is no virtue, to deliberately dumb oneself down to such an extent that reason takes a back seat.
Reason should be at the wheel.

A Statement Against the Church and a Personal God by Albert Einstein
About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indocrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws.

—W. Hermanns, Einstein and the Poet—In Search of the Cosmic Man (Branden Press, Brookline Village, Mass., 1983), p.132, quoted in Jammer, p.123.

What about faith coupled with *bad* works? What about the very devout and pious Crusaders who murdered thousands of innocents because they couldn't spare the people to guard them? What about the equally devout and pious inquisitors who tortured people and burned them at the stake?

Is believing in Jesus all it takes?

But is not faith as much of an act as any work? Do the faithful not at some point decide to believe? Is that "act" of faith then not the "catalyst for salvation"? What separates an act of faith from an act of love? I would argue, nothing.

Faith is a gift that no man should boast remember that. Works without faith do find favor in God's eyes because it is important what you do and why you do it. People that do not even believe in God but do the right thing because it is the right thing to do most definitely do find favor in God's eyes. The bible says faith without works is dead, you cannot earn your way to the "good place" that is true, but to think that God is such an egomaniac that knowing His Name is more important than being a decent person to your brothers and sisters, which happen to be humanity, is absolutely absurd. Jesus said, "I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except thru Me", If you let that sink in you will notice that there could be untold number of ways to get to Jesus, who happens to be the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Some people that call themselves christians need to get off of their self-righteous, holier than thou attitudes and maybe actually become christian. Knowing God's Name is not the ticket so to speak, what do you do then? God has a Plan and it is for all of His children. Sometimes God gives a person a very simple job like telling the whole planet that God wins, satan loses and a tie is totally unacceptable and that person happens to be me. As God says I will send the simple to confound the wise. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

We need clearer definitions of terms like 'good works.'

There was a man who always showed up at the public place with hat out taking up a collection for a "burned out" family. He never gave them any of what suckers put in his hat. That became widely known.

Jesus said, "sell all your earthly posessions and give to the poor." It's agreed that's a ridiculous idea but isn't that all about doing good works, Jesus imitator style? Doesn't that open the door of putting one's self between the beneficiary and the benefactor, like the fellow doing good works taking up collections for fire victims. He wasn't really a crook. Once he got the money in his hands his attitude changed. There are all kinds of excuses, middle men have expenses, 100% in his case.

How much of the 4+ billion dollars the ministry was given by the Bush gang for Katrina victims relief actually reached them?

Best response I've read yet. Good Job Balmer