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000 1 amv best clip dance erotic fmp gregorian him klip love music pixar rock sex simpsons tokio hotel авто анимация аниме без тебя бог боль видео видеоклип видеоклипы война выступление гадание галустян группы девушки дети дискотека 80-х друзья единоборства животные здоровье зло искусство история квн кино клип клипы концерт кошки лесби лето любовь максим музыка мульт мультик мультфильм мультфильмы наруто небо нло олимпийский оригами отдых пародия песни песня попугай прикол приколы природа путин разное реклама рок ролик семья смех собаки спорт стас михайлов стриптиз супер танец танцы тату творчество успех фильм ххх чечня шансон эротика я яой
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000 1 amv best clip dance erotic fmp gregorian him klip love music pixar rock sex simpsons tokio hotel авто анимация аниме без тебя бог боль видео видеоклип видеоклипы война выступление гадание галустян группы девушки дети дискотека 80-х друзья единоборства животные здоровье зло искусство история квн кино клип клипы концерт кошки лесби лето любовь максим музыка мульт мультик мультфильм мультфильмы наруто небо нло олимпийский оригами отдых пародия песни песня попугай прикол приколы природа путин разное реклама рок ролик семья смех собаки спорт стас михайлов стриптиз супер танец танцы тату творчество успех фильм ххх чечня шансон эротика я яой
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000 1 amv best clip dance erotic fmp gregorian him klip love music pixar rock sex simpsons tokio hotel авто анимация аниме без тебя бог боль видео видеоклип видеоклипы война выступление гадание галустян группы девушки дети дискотека 80-х друзья единоборства животные здоровье зло искусство история квн кино клип клипы концерт кошки лесби лето любовь максим музыка мульт мультик мультфильм мультфильмы наруто небо нло олимпийский оригами отдых пародия песни песня попугай прикол приколы природа путин разное реклама рок ролик семья смех собаки спорт стас михайлов стриптиз супер танец танцы тату творчество успех фильм ххх чечня шансон эротика я яой
Adriana Lima
Alec Baldwin
Alessandra Ambrosio
Alicia Silverstone
Alyssa Milano
Anna Faris
Anna Kournikova
Anna Nicole Smith
Ashlee Simpson
Ashley Tisdale
Ashton Kutcher
Aubrey O'Day
Audrina Patridge
Autumn Reeser
Beyonce
Brangelina
Britney Spears
Brooke Hogan
Caitlin Upton
Cameron Diaz
Carmen Electra
Cate Blanchett
Charlize Theron
Christina Aguilera
Christina Milian
Coco
Danielle Lloyd
David and Victoria Beckham
Denise Richards
Dita Von Teese
Drew Barrymore
Eddie Murphy
Elisha Cuthbert
Elizabeth Hurley
Elle McPherson
Eminem
Eva Longoria
Eva Mendes
Fergie
Gemma Atkinson
George Clooney
Gisele Bundchen
Gwen Stefani
Halle Berry
Harry Potter
Hayden Panettiere
Haylie Duff
Heather Mills
Heidi Klum
Heidi Montag
Hilary Duff
Howard Stern
Ian Ziering
Jackie Chan
Jake Gyllenhaal
Jamie Lynn Spears
Jamie Pressly
Janet Jackson
Jenna Jameson
Jennifer Aniston
Jennifer Garner
Jennifer Hudson
Jennifer Lopez
Jennifer Love Hewitt
Jessica Alba
Jessica Biel
Jessica Simpson
Joanna Krupa
Justin Timberlake
Kate Beckinsale
Kate Hudson
Katherine Heigl
Katie Jordan Price
Keanu Reeves
Kim Kardashian
Kirsten Dunst
Kristen Bell
Kristin Cavallari
Lance Bass
Lauren Conrad
Lindsay Lohan
Lucy Pinder
Madonna
Mandy Moore
Mariah Carey
Marisa Miller
Megan Fox
Melanie Brown
Mena Suvari
Michael Jackson
Michelle Rodriguez
Mila Kunis
Miley Cyrus
Molly Sims
Naomi Watts
Natalie Portman
Nelly Furtado
Nick Lachey
Nicky Hilton
Nicole Kidman
Nicole Richie
Nicollette Sheridan
OJ Simpson
Owen Wilson
Pamela Anderson
Paris Hilton
Petra Nemcova
Pink
Ray Liotta
Reese Witherspoon
Rihanna
Rosario Dawson
Rose McGowan
Rosie O'Donnell
Ryan Reynolds
Salma Hayek
Sarah Jessica Parker
Sarah Michelle Gellar
Scarlett Johansson
Sean "Diddy" Combs
Shanna Moakler
Sylvester Stallone
Tara Conner
Tara Reid
Tila Tequila
TomKat
Uma Thurman
Usher
Vanessa Hudgens
Vanessa Minnillo
Victoria Beckham
Vida Guerra
Will Ferrell
Will Smith
Zac Efron
Alaina Alexander
Amy Davis
Antonella Barba
Blake Lewis
Carrie Underwood
Chris Sligh
Clay Aiken
David Archuleta
David Hernandez
Haley Scarnato
Jessica Sierra
Jordin Sparks
Katherine McPhee
Kelly Clarkson
Sanjaya Malakar
Season 7
Shyamali Malakar
Taylor Hicks
Анальный секс
Боди-массаж
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Calvinism is about predestination. In considering the lilies of the field the implication is that all living things have soul. Plato discussed how things spring from their opposites. We know there is good and evil and that the soul is the essence of life. Therefore all souls are not created equal but that some are good others evil. To he with an evil soul how great is that darkness. And, there is a great chasm between between the two that is unbridgable.

It's a great achievement for Islamic leaders and scholars as well as Newsweek and the Washington post to present this imperative opportunity for inter cultural and global philosophical dialogue. What's important is that by exchanging our ideas and comments regarding inter religious relations and world events that affect our views of each other as fellow human beings. Since the advent of humanity, We strove to make sense of the world we live in and the lives we've experienced. Worldwide curiosities to learn the true nature of life and our universe is an exceptionally rare virtue upon life on Earth. In other words, we're the only known species on the planet who've pursued to unravel these great mysteries and developed written philosophies based upon our understanding of the world around us.
One such philosophy that lasted throughout the ages of humanity is commonly known as religion and spirituality. Ever since our early belief in the Sky God and the God Mother from ancient Pagan times, we vigorously pursued to unravel the truth about our most profound questions. As any educated person would know that religion and their core beliefs or faith have evolved over time. Paganism, Monotheism and Polytheism have been influenced by humanity as these great philosophies have influenced our perceptions and decisions in life over the ages. Over time humanity has embraced diverse religious faiths and spiritual convictions that continue to influence our behavior in our times and most likely beyond.
What's vital for humanity's progress and even survival is to know the true nature of faith itself. To understand the true origins of faith. But most of all, is to accept the truth for whatever it may be. Each one of us will learn the absolute truth once we die. But until that time comes for anyone of us to depart this world, we really don't know the answer to God's existence nor do we have the absolute truth in regards to the true nature of God. Besides if we did possess the truth, there would've been only one religion on Earth with no diversification of any way, shape of form. There would only be one holy scripture written throughout human history.
Considering one's religious faith to be absolute, while considering others to be false would be ethnocentric at best. While collectively searching to unravel the mysteries on nature, life and the universe through sincere reasoning and serious research would be enlightening at its worst. Most importantly, we must accept the fact is that none of us have conclusive evidence to confirm our core beliefs and there's always an immanent change that our most cherished beliefs could be wrong. Our greatest challenge would be to tolerate the truth no matter what it may ultimately be. With such an open mind, we would be able to overcome any future discovery that would contradict our faith regarding the true nature of life, spirituality and divinity.
Humanity does have the ability to achieve such a social achievement. However, it's solely up to humanity and not any other entity or groups of entities to decide our destinies. Each one of us has a choice to make; either hopelessly engaging into meaningless inter cultural conflicts or combine our scientific and cultural gifts to thrive into an enlightened global civilization that could ultimately expand beyond our solar system. The choice is yours, and the time to make it is now!

All,
Thank you for your thoughts, various and challenging.
I think, given the post by Mr. Perkins, that there is in his position (one which I respect and often find very attractive) a problem in that it fails to define itself as a religious position when in fact it should. I say it should because in the public forum in this country the defense of the pluralism I take Mr. Balmer and Mr. Perkins both to be espousing at least to some degree, would require all individuals to place the virtue of tolerance above all other virtues. Tolerance of persons is I agree a great virtue; however, tolerance of ideas is a very great vice. Plurality to me seems to advocate the latter and require that I put aside my religious ideas whenever I step into the political sphere; if and when those ideas conflict with an absolute tolerance of ideas. Isn't the plurality position just a particular position about religions and ideas rather than a extra-religious set of guidelines for discussion? What if that position is in direct opposition to certain precepts of one's religious position?
In this vein, idealogical pluralism, secularism, atheism, Christianity, etc. all are positions about both ideas and God that ought to be considered and ultimately accepted or denied. As the process of these considerations goes forward, mustn't we as a society tend toward consistency with one or another of them? We surely cannot tend toward all of them. So, if all such '-isms' are positions about the universe, doesn't it become a question of which we will tend toward? Further, doesn't any position, even ambivalence, require a certain extremity of action insofar as it requires one to act in accord with some principle. I think I must choose to effect change in my government to make it reflect the principles that I accept by reason and by faith in Christ's revelation in the Roman Catholic Church of which I am a professed member.
I will look forward to comment upon the question.
Thanks

Many of these posts give me hope. Prof. Balmer is doing very important work and I hope you are all interested enough to read his books.

I am an atheist who is admittedly hostile to most believers of any sort, but I am coming to see this as counterproductive. I have read and agree with most of what Prof. Richard Dawkins has written and said, but his hostility and absolutism in the name of secularism makes me uneasy. I also don't think that denouncing religion entirely is a particularly useful, realistic, or democratic tactic. I value freedom, tolerance, dialogue, and understanding above all else. It is the only path towards a world community.

The case made by Prof. Balmer is instructive and perhaps of more use. I have a deep respect for many people who are religious, such as Jimmy Carter, Bill Moyers, my grandfather (Roman Catholic), and my many Muslim friends. My hostility, I think, is better directed at what we may call "religious extremism". My basic tenant has always been, "Believe what you like, just leave me alone." I think maybe there is common ground in this. We should be careful not to attempt to legislate limits on each others freedom of action beyond those things that can be commonly agreed upon, such as murder.

I think that anyone who believes in any god of any type is foolish and self-indulgently delusional, but then again, I am often guilty of these charges myself, though not in reference to God. I'm sure those of you who believe in God think the same of me. You're a fool and I'm a sinner, fine, now can you pass the bread? Do you want to fly a kite? Let's smile and laugh and enjoy life, enjoy our differences rather than kill each other over them. What's the point in that? Who wins in suffering?

As Prof. Balmer points out, we can differ in our beliefs and opinions about these things, as long as we retain respect for each other. We must tolerate each other and put the values of pluralism and communal understanding above our difference of belief and opinion. It is not religion, as Prof. Dawkins says, that is tearing our world apart. It is intolerance. Despite my atheism, I love all of you, Evangelists, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, as my brothers, my fellow human beings.

This is sometimes hard, because of the extreme fringes of your groups. Extremist Muslims think it's okay to kill and destory those who do not believe as they do, and come to think of it, so do extremist Christians and Jews. But I know for a fact that these extremists are a minority. There are millions of you out there who have more in common with this atheist on the level of morality than you do with the extremists.

We have to work together. It's the only way to save anything good abour our world. I will do what I can to preach tolerance and understanding amongst my fellow secular atheists, and I would like you all to do the same within your religious communities. I have a vision of a pluralistic, multi-religious (or non-religious, if that's what pleases you) world in which no one sufferes, starves, or is murdered. Please, let us all agree on this at least. This is our common ground, and we must define it, debate it, and stand firmly upon it.

Hello Mr. Balmer and audience =)

Ok so I've read a few comments. As for Jerry F. -...try not to react too strongly to his posts and let it distract you from responding to OTHER comments.

When I was reading Balmers post and a couple others about the religious right in politics I was remembering something I read. It's in the Bible, but I'm not preaching just thinking. In the Gospels of the New Testament of the Christian Faith there's a book/chapter called Luke. Jesus (God's son while he's on earth, and God exalted in heaven), in this rendition of his life, seems more burdened down by the religious people in political power than the moral depravity of the lowest of the low. Not only do they not get what he's teaching, but their power has made them corrupt their faith because its so closely connected. And now when he's come to give people new beginnings, they can't even see that all their powerful religion did not save them from becoming dastardly, because their hearts still gave in to exchange the purity of their devotion to God for gain from the world in the form of influence and money. So they can't see their own lack of righteousness because theyre very religious workings are held up in their society so high, and they are so wrapped up in its politics. So when Jesus came to actually complete true devotion to Him by giving them a way to do it, they couldnt see. And they threw Jesus out and killed Him because they could.

So the point of all that is that if you are an "Evangelical Christian", I think you need to look at where you're confidence in the policies you're proporting in the political arena lies.

This wasnt meant to go on so. I just thought it would be a thoughtful counterbalance to "Evil religion" vs. actual faith.
SJ

Real -
What clarity of insight.
What a stunning revelation.
Your mother must be very proud of you.

Regarding Christian religion right or left, having a say in the political system, didn't Jesus say his kingdom was no part of this world?

Didn't he tell his followers that they were no part of the world (John 15:19)

Using that as a measure, any Christian religion involved in politics is not following what Jesus taught, hence not christian by definition.

So, my view is any religious leader espousing a political view is a hypocrite, plain and simple.

Also, take a look at Matthew 4:8-10. I find it interesting that Jesus didn't dispute who was running the governments that were offered to him by Satan. It agrees with 1 John 5:19 spot on.

Interesting quote:
Under the topic “Church and State,” The Encyclopedia of Religion declares: “In the first three centuries AD the Christian church was largely isolated from official Roman society . . . Nevertheless, Christian leaders . . . taught obedience to Roman law and loyalty to the emperor, within the limits set by the Christian faith.”

Turns out it wasn't until the third century that individuals claiming to be Christians got involved in politics. Why should I think they are the right example given what the bible teaches?

Terrorists hate Western society because we are "infidels."

The religious wrong are the republican party.

Whoa, Kelly, take a deep breath. Breathe. Good. One more time. Good. Now let's talk calmly.

>What CAUSES radical Islam? It's NOT in the Koran. WHY do SO many people (who are NOT Radical Muslims) HATE the U.S.? Open your eyes. Seriously.

Hysteria does not help your cause. It makes you look too immature and emotional to look at things rationally. If your ideas are clear and correct, they don't need contempt and condescension as a crutch.

>Pretty much all experts on the Middle East agree that our foreign policy has played a HUGE role in terrorism.

This is simply not true. As with any other important issue, there is a wide variety of opinion on the matter. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't "READ." The fact that you are totally unaware that there exists intelligent opinion that disagrees with you shows that you, in fact, are the one who has not read widely enough.

Besides, the tactic of asserting the unanimity of unnamed authorities just doesn't cut it. Quote people, be specific, or else use your own arguments.

>I'm sure someone who clearly knows so much about the subject, would be aware that we funded radical Muslims during the Cold War... right? You did know that right?

Yeah, because the Soviet Union posed a much bigger threat to the world at the time than radical Islam did. Just like we teamed up with the Soviet Union to fight Hitler. Look, when you're fighting evil, it's a messy job, and you inevitably get your hands dirty. You just do the best you can with the distasteful options before you. And opting out of confronting evil is no option. To paraphrase the old saying, all it takes for evil countries to triumph is for good countries to do nothing.

>And you do know that no matter where you go in the Muslim world, ALL's they wanna talk about is Palestine???

Funny you should mention that, because in Palestine we have what Sam Harris calls in his book The End of Faith "practically a scientific experiment" in what causes suicide terrorism. If terrorism is caused by politics, US foreign policy, poverty, etc, why is it you never hear about Christian Palestinian suicide bombers? They look the same as the Muslim Palestinians, have the same history, speak the same language, and are treated the same by the Israelis. But without belief in jihad, martyrdom, and a secure spot in heaven, becoming a suicide bomber loses all its attraction.

This post is already long enough, but you get the picture. Foaming at the mouth does not gain respect for your opinions; it tarnishes them. And if you're willing to "READ" differing opinion, you'll learn more and be in better touch with reality than if you scream at people with whom you disagree.

Snowbeast:

What CAUSES radical Islam? It's NOT in the Koran. WHY do SO many people (who are NOT Radical Muslims) HATE the U.S.? Open your eyes. Seriously. Pretty much all experts on the Middle East agree that our foreign policy has played a HUGE role in terrorism. I'm sure someone who clearly knows so much about the subject, would be aware that we funded radical Muslims during the Cold War... right? You did know that right? And you do know that no matter where you go in the Muslim world, ALL's they wanna talk about is Palestine??? And guess who gives money to Israel to help bomb Palestine? Yea, that'd be us.

Something drives people to believing that dying is all they have left. Something leads people to be manipulated and used by those who feed them the rhetoric that killing for Allah will get them into heaven. What IS that? What is the unifying force? A hatred for freedom? That's not even a rational argument.

I repeat: READ. Don't just repeat back what you hear every now and then on TV or from your pastor or friends. READ. The news. READ stuff written by experts on the Middle East, not just Americans who've never been anywhere BUT America or other parts of the the West.

This blog is perhaps the best evidence that perhaps there is no middle ground.

I am a Christian who supports stem cell research and a woman's right to birth control (but not necessarily abortion). Yet every day I hear why I shouldn't pray where other people might hear me. I hear why the 10-commandments are biased or wrong. I am lumped in with others like Faldwell or Robertson with whom I often disagree with and certainly wouldn't want to see President. And almost always these comments come from liberals who are as equally intollerent as the far religious right.

When it comes time to vote, what should I do? vote with liberal Democrates whom I agree with on some issues but whom treat the inclusion of God in my life with utter contempt.

Or do I vote with Republicans, who while sometimes extreme in their belief, to not slander the God I love nor treat his Church with verbal malace?

It is not the individual issues that push me into the Republican camp every two years. It is the belief that their is no room at the Democratic Party's table for someone who likes to pray, and certainly no room for God.

I will not stand with those who stand against God. Too bad there's not an alternative to the Republican excesses and the athiest Democrats. How's that for meaningful diologue?

Message for R. Moore:
You suggest that it is interesting that no one in this forum has said "anything bad about Jesus".

Over 50 years ago in his book entitled' "Why I am not a Christian" Bertrand Russell suggested that Jesus' moral outlook was defective "because he believed in the existence of Hell". So let me rectify the shortcomings of this forum by saying: I agree with Bertrand Russell.

The notion of a Hell with eternal torture/torment (yes torture fellow readers!) is a truly bizarre and indefensible notion. Maybe torture of some kind is defensible under some circumstances but it sure isn't defensible as a form of interminable punishment for supposedly wrong belief -- whether it is Jesus or anyone else who advocates such a ghastly concept.

Jerry F-

I LOVE you too.

Regarding the UPS driver referenced above, he was not blaring "Christian music" from his radio, but Christian hate radio, talk radio, with a rabid, hissing host demonizing liberals like me. I believe I have a right to live peacefully on my own property without the evangelical UPS driver blaring hate talk demonizing me over his radio speakers. If he insists on blaring demonizing talk from his speakers, he can leave my packages at the gate and not enter my property. I would urge anyone else confronted by a hate-monger on your property to alert their employer and make a complaint. Enough is enough.

>Terrorists don't hate our freedom. Terrorists hate our foreign policy.

No, terrorists hate infidels; foreign policy is just the excuse. Radical Muslims have an incentive to pick fights with other religions because, according to Islam, if you die "defending the faith" you get a free pass into heaven. That's a much surer thing than trying to be perfect your whole life and still not being sure if you'll make the cut.

Forget what I said to Diana, that was meant for someone else. Terrorists DO hate us for our foreign policy. You people need to learn a thing or two about the M.E. before you start mouthing off about it.

Diana, your ability to keep your legs shut when you want, has NOTHING to do with foreign policy. Take a class on politics.

MAYBE... terrorists hate us for our $3 billion dollars a year that are given no matter what to Israel in military aid- money that was used to pay for the shelling that took place last week killing 18 women and children... which we then proceeded to be the ONLY country out of 15 to disapprove of a UN resolution to condemn Israel for the killing of innocent women and children. We not only didn't support it, we vetoed it- while 10 other countries supported it. Or how about our insistance upon democracy... but we then take it back when governments we don't like are elected.

READ PEOPLE.

DIANA:

THANK YOU.

Jerry F:

If you love the "LORD!" you BETTER learn to love your enemies. Or did you totally miss that part of the Bible? OR... did you read it, and just figure "hey, I know what God REALLY meant... I don't need to do that."

Radlical Islam, from which terrorism currently stems from, is not formed from a hatred of freedom. People from that part of the world DO NOT hate us because of our freedom. Try reading about Islam for change. Try informing yourself about people over there. Try LOVE. And UNDERSTANDING. Try being like the Jesus you say you love, and not so much like the phariseese who killed Him. Remember Paul??? He killed Christians... and he also wrote most of the New Testiment. Try ACTING on your love for the "LORD!" and not just preaching it.

It sounds to me like Jerry is a good, God-fearing Christian. In fact, if he changed the name of his religion, he would be a great Saudi Arabian Wahabist.

If religious voices stuck to issues that related to real issues of faith, such as poverty, corruption, stewardship of planetary resources, and the common humanity of all and stopped shoving their unwanted nose in the bedroom they'd be far more welcome in the discourse of the public arena. Right now, too many voices of faith are merely shills for Republican demigoguery to be worth the vowels and consonants they torture with every breath.

"Terrorists don't hate our freedom. Terrorists hate our foreign policy."

That dependa on which terrorists, right? Someone who both dislikes his country's weak economy and likes raping his terrified teen bride while he's at it might both hate us for America's foreign policy and hate us for our freedom to keep our legs shut when we want to.

"If the British were indeed invaded by the Germans, THEY'D BE DOOMED ANYWAY and thus had nothing to lose by gassing the Germans."

Wasn't Frank talking about gassing cities, not about invading them? Britain and Germany were dropping bombs on each other's cities, and presumably able to drop gas on each other's cities, in WWII long before the Allies occupied Germany.

Randall Balmer suggests that "public discussion would be impoverished without voices of faith". He then goes on to accuse the "Religious Right", as he call it, of "manifold excesses and distortions". Heaven alone knows what sins of comission or omission can be laid at the door of the relgious left.

He speaks of the "dangers of lusting after power and political influence -- especially for people of faith". Nevertheles, in some strange way, he seems to think that having faith, of one kind or another, is an asset. The message does not seem to have got through to him that having a baseless faith, of any kind, is inherently dangerous.
The main religious faiths are all mutually incompatible and it is far more likely that they are all phony than any other possible explanation.

Methinks that all our discourse would be greatly improved without the dead weight of faith based dogmas which have no basis in reality.

Faith... faith. Faith in what? The meaning of life according to the Bible? Hold whatever beliefs you want, but make policy decisions on reason and the public welfare. I understand that everyone is influenced by his or her particular belief system. Nevertheless, there are good ideas and bad ideas. A bad idea isn't made more palitable by the claim that the foundation for that bad idea is the Bible (or whatever book one chooses to cite), nor is it improved by claiming that science makes it so. Bring me a good idea from a nasty person and I will take it over a bad idea from a saint.

It does disgust me that some churches cannot offer their stance on torture. When they covet political power more than their desire to model the life of Jesus they have lost the path.

Luckily it is not all churches.

Sternberg, please detail where tens of thousands of citizens have been saved. What forms of torture were used? Also, what is our ratio of success? I would argue that the torture evidence I've seen to date has cost U.S. citizens dearly in global goodwill. This loss puts us at greater danger and has cost lives. The more we are viewed as villians, the less likely good people will stick out their neck to give us information or tips and the more likely they will allow or support our enemies.

Bear with me, this story has a point

When I was just a kid, my brothers once were playing with matches in our house and burned a hole in the floor. Needless to say, my mother was a tad upset.

She has us standing in a line, grilling us as to who the culprit was. No one would confess.

Finally, this seeming like hell itself to my 12 year old self, I said that I had done it, simply to stop our mother from yelling at us. I hadn't done it of course, but I just wanted it to stop.
Obviously my mother wasn't torturing us per se, but it seemed awful enough at the time.

The moral of this story? TORTURE DOESN'T WORK.

P.S. My mother actually realized I was lying after a few minutes, and I got to go to my room and read. My brothers remained on the rack.

It's fair to say that incivility, vilification, a presumption of bad faith, a disregard for what the writer calls the "etiquette of democracy," — these are all too common in contemporary discourse. That's not the fault of the so-called religious right, nor is it by any means peculiar to people of that persuasion. Indeed, the so-called religious right is itself demonized incessantly by people like the writer.

Count me unimpressed.

I think it is significant that the religious right is accused of hijacking certain terms, and no one wants to take exception to this gentleman and others with the same political motive hijacking the word torture for their own benefit.
In medieval times bodies were broken on the rack, persons flayed alive, and minds destroyed to gain confessions. Confessions with a political purpose.
Now we are calling torture, interrogation techniques that do no damage to body or mind. Techniques that our own interrogators use on themselves, for a better understanding. We make those interrogations, not to collect confessions, but to gather evidence that has saved the lives of tens of thousands of our citizens. Every one who has given that information, is now capable of performing every act and practicing every skill that they had gained over their entire life's practice. None of those is in any pain, or mental anguish, with the possible exception of a fear that their fellows will take revenge for their testimoney.
Next thing you know, we will have persons trying to convince us that our military foe is entitled to writs of habeas Corpus, even though our Constitution, specifically excepts them from any such right.

It has been extremely educational reading all the comments in this blog. Rather than jump into the fire of any particular issue, like torture, religion in government, etc., I'd like to offer a few observations based on what I have read. First, the comments reaffirm the inadequacies of labels. I guess we all use them, but they simply do not suffice. For example, I am an evangelical Christian, having been convinced by the biblical and extra-biblical claims about Jesus, but I might not fit your definition of one. I spent the last 14 years of my life as a Christian missionary because I wanted to serve others overseas and provide them an opportunity to consider Jesus claims, as well. I believe that these should be two of the highest priorities for anyone who claims to know and love Christ, no matter where you live, but I know that Biblical Christianity can only be chosen, not imposed. I am also a social conservative. I have no problem with Christians participating in politics, yet I am convinced that engaging in the so-called “Culture War” as a Christian power political block is the best way to lose (or confuse) our voice in the debate and drive our society away from the faith and principles of morality that we find in the Bible. I think that you do not win over those with whom you fight. Obviously, many Christians disagree with me. I think that many Christians have confused nationalism (or love of country) with Christianity. This country that we love is not the “Kingdom of God”, nor can it or should it be a theocracy. I think that perception can be just as powerful as reality in the relationship (or lack thereof) between Christians and non-Christians. I think that many who are not Evangelical Christians are vehemently opposed to those of us who are because they think that we are opposed to them and seek to impose our faith and moral standards upon them by political force. Some think we hate them. Some think we’re from Mars. Most don’t think about us at all. My observation as an “insider” is that although there are notable exceptions, the majority of us Evangelicals in the USA have circled the wagons to protect ourselves from those who are not. Aside from the usual church meetings, we have Christian school (home and otherwise), Christian clubs at public schools, Christian sports leagues, Christian doctors, Christian mechanics, Christian Boy/Girl Scouts, Christian subdivisions (really!), Christian cruises, Christian RV parks, Christian radio, etc., etc. I see nothing wrong with any of these, but my point is that it should not be surprising that so many people misunderstand us. We spend almost no quality time with anyone who isn’t a Christian...or at least acts like one! Maybe some of us fit their labels all too well. Finally, did you notice that know one in this blog said anything bad about Jesus. Hmmm.

Torture doesn't work. Let Junior the Fear Monger (Dave) rant all he wants about his timebomb and KSM, but torture is still pretty ineffective.

And, the evil we visit upon others will be visted upon us.

It is a fact that in World War 2, Germans fought harder against the Russians because they knew their fate if they ended up in Soviet hands. They knew what would happen because it was the same thing they had been doing to the Russians. The American Army took a different approach. German POWs had regular meals, heated sleeping quarters, and they could even write letters home (though with no guarantee that the letters would make it).

Our Army wanted their army to know they would be treated well when they surrendered. Russians wanted to exact revenge upon the Germans, and they did it rather well, which was easy since they lacked the resources to do much for the German POWs.

The German people suffered much more under the Russians than they did under Americans because of reciprocity. The German war crimes of rape, murder, theft, and torture were repaid in full by the Russians. Russian soldiers also paid their own price for their harsh reputation in that a German soldier was more likely to fight to the death to avoid becoming a prisoner of Russia.

In short, torture doesn't work, and it will come back to haunt us. Torture is easy for stupid people to advocate because it's simple. They figure that if you beat a man long enough, he'll tell you what you NEED to hear. But, the opposite is true, if he does tell you anything, it will be what you WANT to hear. Then, you can pat yourself on the back and go make a press conference.

Torture doesn't work. Let Junior the Fear Monger (Dave) rant all he wants about his timebomb and KSM, but torture is still pretty ineffective.

And, the evil we visit upon others will be visted upon us.

It is a fact that in World War 2, Germans fought harder against the Russians because they knew their fate if they ended up in Soviet hands. They knew what would happen because it was the same thing they had been doing to the Russians. The American Army took a different approach. German POWs had regular meals, heated sleeping quarters, and they could even write letters home (though with no guarantee that the letters would make it).

Our Army wanted their army to know they would be treated well when they surrendered. Russians wanted exact revenge upon the Germans, and they did it rather well, which was easy since they lacked the resources to do much for the German POWs.

The German people suffered much more under the Russians than they did under Americans because of reciprocity. The German war crimes of rape, murder, theft, and torture were repaid in full by the Russians. Russian soldiers also paid their own price for their harsh reputation in that a German soldier was more likely to fight to the death to avoid becoming a prisoner of Russia.

In short, torture doesn't work, and it will come back to haunt us. Torture is easy for stupid people to advocate because it's simple. They figure that if you beat a man long enough, he'll tell you what you NEED to hear. But, the opposite is true, if he does tell you anything, it will be what you WANT to hear. Then, you can pay yourself on the back and go make a press conference.

I wonder why the press, especially those knowledgeable in the area of American religious sentiment don't do a thorough job of comparing the faith-based American politicos and their ordained allies with their counter parts in Iran and elswhere. This group, regardless of church affiliation functions no differently than the radical mullah's of Iran, or their sunni radical counter parts in insisting that society conform to their mores. If american readers understood that we have our own variety of "christian" mullahs they might better be able to evaluate the phenomenon.

The Religious Right has every right to be heard, in their Church of Worship, our Constitution guarantees that right. However, the founding fathers, in their wisdom, realize that danger lurks when religion and government mix. George Washington added the words "so help me God" to end of his swearing in as our first President. GW however as a Deist.

Deists reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and divine revelation prominent in organized religion, along with holy books and revealed religions that assert the existence of such things. Instead, deists hold that correct religious beliefs must be founded on human reason and observed features of the natural world, and that these sources reveal the existence of one God or supreme being. Does such a believe find acceptance with the Religious Right?

John Adams our second President believed that each person could practice the religion of their choice so long as they did not breach the peace.

Religion is not all sugar and candy. It is a hot flame in the hands of a powerful government. My son attended a Baptist Church for a while. I know the Pastor and he did me a very big favor, however, my son came home from one of his sermons one day and told me the Pastor preached that all Jews and Catholics were going to Hell. That was the last sermon he attended.

Realizing that more people are murdered in the world for ethnic or religious reasons (just look at what is going on in Iraq) then for any other reason, we should carefully consider the wisdom of politizing Religion.

Tolerance is the American way. Religion should be a private matter not a political matter, and to preserve American values it should stay that way. That's what I believe, so help me God.

Of course Christian believers have a constitutional right to express their beliefs. What is distressing is that Christianity is the greatest hoax perpetrated on humanity and the fact that so many people believe its nonsensical dogmas and doctrines is appalling. Were it possible, which it is not, Christians should be confined to insane asylums.

Trudy -
You’re right. How dare the UPS man come down your drive with his radio on. He had no right to inflict that music on your ears. I’m sure he did that just to infringe on your right to not hear music you don’t want to hear. It’s a good thing you asked him about his position…just to make sure you didn’t misunderstand the situation, I’m sure. Because if you hadn’t broached the subject with him, I’m sure he wouldn’t have asked if you believed in Jesus. How dare he respond to you! He just wanted to proselytize, I bet.

Darn good things you made the complaint to UPS, too. That man doesn’t deserve to work if he believes in Jesus.

OK – clearly this is sarcasm. There are a lot of other things to be irate about in life. And I daresay the music the UPS guy listens to is not one of them. Your actions were petty and juvenile. Oh, yeah, and asking him about his music invited a response. So I would add manipulative to that list as well.