All Comments (33)

1eDDFk U cool ))

1eDDFk U cool ))

By what power were we born ? Is that not the same power that produces death ? In nature when a fire occurs does not the earth use the charred remains to re-invent itself. The earth was created in such a way as to provide the necesary elements for the very survival of man & beast alike. But deeper than skin & bone lies the very essense of a kinship to a higher power. The ability to realize the limitations of life , something of which non-humans do not possess, should instill within us even a deeper appreciation of having life. But where did this life come from ? Do we have to see in order to believe ? Can we see the air we breathe & the wind we feel ? What force controls the pattern of the cosmos & keeps are earth in it's yearly journey around the sun? We refer to it as gravity . But what is gravity ? A lot of questions beyond our ability to answer. But what is more important is the fact that our own bodies are a work of such beauty & magnitude that it could not have happened by mere chance. And whence we go, we shall return to that which has created us . Death is not final. It is really a new beginning into eternity.

Gus:

If you make the time, turn up a copy of Stricklin's Geneaology of Dissent and read our friend Albert Blackwell's eulogy to Martin
England.
And in that universe, Jeff Rogers, the pastor of FBC Greenville, SC has great eulogy of former Furman President John Johns in his October 2 blog at pulpitbytes.blogspot.com
Will remind you of the great troubles of the SBC, many of which you covered.

STEVE WALKER..You cant stop (being) yourself in that the(being)cant die ..to die as mean ending. There not an ending as there never an beginning. The purpose of human form be its capability that you will (know)that which at present you(being).

You sound like a bunch of infants crying about how he didn't answer the question the way you wanted. His intent was obviously to address the issue of immortality from a different angle. Think.

Undisclosed: I am well aware of the Eastern religions and their beliefs in the transmigration of souls--which, I must admit, is a grade above the Mormons' beliefs in spiritual hijacking!!! Still, the question I have is this: How do they know? To believe something does not make it so, and any belief that defies intellectual convictions is a frantically defended lie. --I do agree with LT and ANONYMOUS about Niebuhr. He is much too full of himself to think and speak outside his box.

I agree 100% with the post of "LT" (10/17/07).

Niebuhr did not answer the original question. He simply provided his babble by "discussing non-analogous definitions" of the common sense meaning of the words used in the stated question --- in short he played "Slick Willy" word games.

Can't the Washingtonpost find a way to drop panelist who constantly provide non-responsive essays to the stated question. I am reminded of the proceeding of the Dover Pennsylvania case trying to get Intelligent Design taught in science class. From time to time the judge in the case had to direct the ID witnesses to answer the question that was asked of them. Of course the ID side lost that court case, in large part because they had to answer those questions, they couldn't just play Niebuhr like word games.

"And if that's not life after death, I don't know what else you call it." I do: I'd call it death after life. People talk about other people whether they are living or whether they are dead, in the common senses of those words.

Prof. Niebuhr didn't answer the question. He made a categorical mistake by discussing non-analogous definitions of alive and dead.

Why doesn't he explain the reasons he thinks there is no life after death or why he thinks the answer is unknowable?

shouldn't that be Literarily! instead of Literally?

shouldn't that be Literarily! instead of Literally?

For all those who think this post is "worthless" and "vacuous" and that Niehbur "doesn't get it"--I'd say he seems to be the only one who does get it. When we die, we're gone, and there are only two ways that we "live" on--culturally, and genetically. Organisms are shaped by the process of evolution to leave offspring behind, so our fundamental legacy is genetic. But organisms that have transmissible culture (and that's not just humans) also live on through the passage of ideas between generations.

Abraham Lincoln most certainly is alive today through his legacy, in the central concept of human dignity he professed through the Emancipation Proclamation. He lives through all of us, certainly more than any of the neighbors he might have passed walking on a road as a young man who, although valuable in their time, remain nameless and "dead" to most of humanity.

Niehbur gets it, why can't you?

Hey author !

I agree !

I'd add though, there is also the opportunity of a lifetime to discover life while living, PERIOD.

It is only after we SEPARATE ourselves do we even NEED to entertain the askew foul question of whether there is life after death.

My point is, there really is no death.

I never expected to be born, anyone else ?

this is one terrific gift, I'm highly content to just have this one opportunity to see this universe. JUST to see. Like Chance Gardiner in Being There - JUST to Watch. Amazing.

Of course, I realize - life does not afford me a picture where I play gold and steal from those who do work hard under the sun, I recognize the necessity for good work in this world.

It's somewhat unpleasant, but this is very likely the only kind of afterlife we can hope for. It might do the world some good to grapple with and accept it. People might try to live more virtuously if all they can hope for after death is a good reputation.

Finally, some sweet, sweet light-hearted sanity amongst the near-death experiences and lights at the end of the tunnel.

Thank-you, sir.

There are major religions--perhaps the religion that is practiced by the most people on this earth--that believe in re-incarnation and that a soul can indeed be in a dolphin, or bovine, etc. So religion does argue that these animals have a soul.

Undisclosed for now, greetings again.
I don't know that an afterlife does not exist. How could I? So I am not a "faithful" in that regard. I just observe the signs all around me, and they pretty much tell me that I, together with all the rest of the living creatures, die and disappear forever. Would that an afterlife did exist in fact! I would love to be surrounded by my dogs and be in the company of the noble dolphins and other creatures I have come to know and love in this life. [Do dolphins have a soul? Are they immortal? If so, do they also go to some heaven? If not, how do you know you and I have souls and they don't?] --As to my "knowing" exactly what goes on in heaven, come on now! I was simply repeating the idiocies of the shamans and priests throughout history who have shaped their moronic mythology to keep the "faithful" servile and in line. --What do multiple personality disorders have to do with the concept of a soul? By all indications, the random connections in the brain cells, when they go haywire, cause the multiple personality disorders which no one can understand--yet. But it's certainly a "leap of faith" to explain away the existence of a soul because of those disorders, isn't?

Saying that you know an after-life doesn't exist is just as faithful, in its own way, as saying you know exactly what goes on in heaven.

Even some modern religions think we go on to another planet or to be another species here on earth.

Also, without the concept of a soul, how do you explain multiple personality disorder?

We don't really know. The accounts of near death experiences are remarkably similar. But so are the things that heart transplant patients say about the donors--and they're always wrong. So we don't really know...Either way, it's a leap of faith.

I am begining to think that this clever people are realizing how baseless is the faith they were taught since childhood, but they are unable to recognize it and stand the fact of so many years believing in the unbelievable. Their responses to this life after death question pretend to be wise but are terribly vacous.

BGONE: Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, I agree with you about the built-in psychological mechanism about life after death which helps us to cope with death. The cruelest joke death plays on us is that it makes prisoners of the living. And the very fear of it makes us concoct all sorts of scenarios other than oblivion. That's the only way I can attempt to explain the collective human delusion that there is got to be more life other than the present one, hence all the gods that have existed throughout history in the minds of people. From Hades to Valhalla, from reincarnation to halos and harps--or horns and pitchforks--it's been the same delusion throughout history. Still, a rudimentary use of our human capacity to think "outside the box" and examine the different epochs,cultures and beliefs which have been forcefed to humans since early childhood and from time immemorial, will point to the indisputable conclusion, and that is, oblivion may indeed be the final outcome of all flesh and the thoughts and concepts formed within that fragile frame we call the human body. And that is why I reject any and all religious beliefs and their smug certainties. Life is indeed a precious gift, and I try to live it to its fullest without concerning myself about the fate awaiting all of us. Take care.

Abelard;

The notion of more life after this life is a built in psychological defensive mechanism that allows us to cope with death. It doesn't need to be valid to be there and to be valuable. It takes the despair out of the death of others.

Funerals are for the living. I'm sure you agree. The notion that the dead person is not really dead allows the living to bury the dead and maintain sanity at the same time.

Main line religion has it's foundation in the depriving of some of additional life. When we go back in history to BR, Before Religion we find that all dead were assumed to go on to a new world. Whether or not that is so does not diminish the value to the living of, not believing but simply assuming more life for all after this life.

There an interesting set of picture graphs of what religion is and how it works on our natural fear of death at, http://www.hoax-buster.org/aboutus The nebol bridge is a natural normal part of the human mind put there by mother nature for a very valuable purpose, allows the living to bury the dead and leave the cemetery with the will to live themselves.

Dear "Undisclosed for now:" No need to torment yourself with such thoughts. The signals sent to us by Nature should be sufficient to satisfy your "curiosity/angst" about what happens at deathtime. Look around you: millions--nay, billions--of living creatures die daily, and billions others are born. That's the life cycle we all have come to see and know. Now, think this: what happens to all those creatures that die? The evidence is that they expire their last, the lights go out, and they're gone--dead, forever. People are not different. But just because human beings have a brain that forms thoughts and concepts--including the concept of death--they have been sharing this collective delusion that they and they alone have "an immortal soul" which will live after their physical death. What supreme arrogance and presumption! As for gods--all gods--they are all products of human concepts; they are the creatures of Man and not the other way around. Apparently they are needed, and created, to feed that delusion of life after death through fear and through hope. "Give me heaven, give me hell if you must, but do not give me oblivion." What a waste of energy! So, "Undisclosed for now," my suggestion to you is to give life a chance, it's the only chance anyone of us will ever have.

I struggle very much with this idea. I had major surgery last year. There were no visions, just darkness. I was awake, asleep in blackness, and awake again. But I didn't have my heart stop beating,or my brain functions cease. Still, one wonders about that...

But then, and I was thinking about this for other reasons, I had a remarkably vivid dream about my Grandmother. She has late-stage Alzheimer's, and can't talk or chew. One could argue that she is almost among the living dead (she occasionally smiles and still loves music, so she's definitely still alive). Anyway, I saw a young grandmother--far younger than she was from my childhood and a young grandfather (he is still alive, but will likely die with/right after my Grandmother passes). They were happy, and enjoying themselves. Others in my family have been "visited" by dead relatives in dreams. And while not strictly dead, my experience was an interesting one.

But is it a figment of my brain? Am I subconsciously looking for comfort? That is certainly possible.

But then, on the other side, there's de ja vu. Been here before. Clearly remember something in the present that I knew about in the past. That happens semi-frequently with me.

I think it's an open question. I hope the answer is yes. I kind of lean that way. But I'm not positive.

And there's the technique--which I have tried--of meditating and being somewhere else, while your body remains in place. Writers use this technique a lot. But I never see my own body in the present when I do that.

There's also the issue of time. It seems certain to us. But if there are billions (trillions?) of lives and they each have their own unique time-line, then it really is infinite.

And finally, the existence of the big bang--and the fact that we can actually look millions of years into the past through telescopes is interesting. Who made the first two atoms? At least with our ability to think, there's no other explanation for that than a creator. But then who created the creator? I think it's probably beyond our ability as sentient beings to actually understand this. Perhaps we will learn in the future, but for now I don't understand. I believe, but I don't understand.

Mavaddat, Professor:

We remember some of the people who did good deeds and we can never forget those who were totally horrid. Nero and Hitler like Alexander the great and Gracho Marx will all be remembered for what they did. But are they alive to enjoy being remembered? Do rocks, statues, images care to be remembered? Do rocks care at all?

The thought that there is more life after this one has a rather obvious source, the burying of the dead. When our ancient ancestors stood over the grave what did they think had happened to their loved one? The very human thing is to say that they have gone on to a better world. Over time that better world has evolved to what we call heaven today.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/aboutus has some interesting pictographs, picture writing of what religion does to that "normal natural" concept of all the dead simply going on to a better world. After all, hell is just an idle threat if we die and stay dead, are only remembered.

The fact that people believe in hell tells us there must be somewhere in the human imagination a lot more than just being remembered. And that mental thing must have begun without a hell, all the dead go on to the next and better world.

Hell is the clue that leads us to an understanding of the history of, creation until now of religion. Our ancient ancestors did not hurt each other. There were no Hitlers or subhumans in the ancient world, just people who had to bury those they loved. The notion of more life is natural while the notion of depriving some of eternal life is perverted.

That's not an attack on religion but rather just telling it like the record says it is. If religion has a place in the civilized world it's up to religion to be civilized. Religion is as civilized as the condemnation of anyone to hell is civilized. If all that happens is being remembered then what's religion all about? I mean other than magic spells and charms and fortune telling and getting help from the supernatural - hither powers?

This article is vacuous in its attempt to address the viscerally- and universally-human question of whether there is life after death. Abraham Lincoln is not intellectually alive because someone else reads a passage he wrote, unless one completely re-defines the meaning of the word "alive." Traditionally, when one says a person is intellectually alive, one means that the particular person's own mind actively thinks about particular ideas. It is silly to imply that someone else reading what I have written would literally "think my thoughts" - the words I wrote have specific, concrete, personal meanings and connotations that are impossible for any other reader to know. That other reader would have to possess the entire contents of my mind to know what I precisely meant by the words I wrote.

And when the dead one remembered has no one
left alive to remember him or her. What do
you call it?

Another worthless post from Neibuhr. At least he spared us quoting some idiotic poem!

Now here is my take: Once at a New York dinner party that had Woody Allen in attendance, a guest was going on and on and was telling Woody just how much she admired his movies --- that Woody would live on forever in his movies --- to which Woody responded that he would instead prefer to live on forever by NOT dieing!

I'm sure Mr. Neibuhr just will not get this.

To/ Brothers & Sisters,As to all good people to knowing God one must be equal with God, not the grovling, snivling,fools that we having become. You but allow others to brainwash as abuse that you become as servants to man,as prisoners unto their deceit cunning.God having no need or wish that you come a begging as a dog,unto its master to obey on call.Get off your knees. Stand before God as your equal,thus win your freedom....Your BROTHER in ARMS....Lucifer xxx X

I'm not especially worried about who might remember me and for how long. To equate being remembered with being alive is just silly. What I really do want to know is - when I die, will I actually be dead? Now there's a question that matters, though it is admittedly harder to answer and doesn't lend itself to lofty platitudes when we get to write our opinions in a well known newspaper.

Having read many accounts of people who have been dead before and then came back, I am very much encouraged. There are so many of them and they are so similar. And when you read them for yourself you really can tell which ones are simply trying to impress or push an agenda (very few), and which are genuinely telling us what happened to them. The ring of veracity is unmistakeable.

You still have to discriminate between their stories - the events which took place - and their interpretations of those events, which tend to range far and wide. The main point here: the answer to this more difficult question of actual life after death - is, I think, knowable.

Ecclesiastes 2:15-16 Then I said to myself, "What befalls the fool will befall me also; why then have I been so very wise?" And I said to myself that this also is vanity. For of the wise man as of the fool there is no enduring remembrance, seeing that in the days to come all will have been long forgotten. How the wise man dies just like the fool!

So, if you don't write anything memorable you're stone cold dead?

What a great exposition!

Who needs a metaphysical afterlife when you can live on in the memories of people here on Earth? What could be more important to humanity than to affect the world in such a way as to be remembered for having done some good?

Are you serious? Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.