Comments (180)

That Christianity has infused American sports is an undeniable reality, and in general it does not diminish my enjoyment as a spectator. I found Reilly's comment ignorant and nonsensical, rather than offensive. I did, however write a polite letter both to him and to ESPN about the questionable wisdom of making such remarks on the air. Other commenters here have pointed out that our culture is hypersensitized to political correctness, and that no one should make a fuss about this. I, on the other hand, think it is extremely telling that Reilly was apparently concerned with the ultra-PC climate into which he was broadcasting. He was presumably aware that it would be bad form to target any other non-evangelical group with that remark, so why did atheists slip through his filter?

Targeting atheists for disparagement seems to be the exception to this finely-tuned political correctness, and this incident is only the latest example. As an 'out' atheist, I support and participate in efforts to raise awareness of our presence in this country and of our right not to be discriminated against. Reilly's comment in and of itself was not discrimination, by any means, but it underscores some fairly widely-held beliefs which, if cultivated, can lead to discrimination.

My point on "Pascal's wager" was to show that everyone has faith in something. God, money, politics..whatever. If that was the only reason to believe in God it would be a shallow faith.

God is just that.... faith. As Jesus said "you can't see the wind but you know it's there because of the result." It also takes a certain amount of faith to belief in evolution. No human was there when the world began so no one really knows because no one has witnessed it first hand. So Faith is the basis of every belief.

Everyone asks why would God allow a disaster like Katrina or allow children to live in poverty or hunger. Why is there sickness and disease? If God really cared he would never allow that to happen.

The answer is free will. That was demonstrated with the first Man and Woman. The earth was created perfectly for them. They were given everything. God created man with a free will to choose right from wrong. Since God is the creator of all things (Satan included) He allowed evil to exist to present right and wrong to man. God explained to man the cost of making the wrong choice and the result is what we have today. Just think of how many children could be saved with the wealth available in the US and middle east. The billions that have been spent on oil could save thousands perhaps millions of starving children. But yet since we have free will we continue to allow people to live in poverty.

Don't think as a believer I'm blaming everyone else for our problems... I'm guilty of my own greed and selfishness.

Some people may think God is a puppet master by allowing all this to happen. But free will once again gives us our choice to do right or wrong.

Even though we made the wrong choice God still provided a way through Christ and the Gospel. (Which means “Good News”?) Some may think faith in Christ is too simple. But I have found walking with Christ is not simple. Christ demands that we put others before ourselves as Christ gave himself for us.

As a believer I have not succeeded in putting others before me. I have failed God in every phase of my life. But the GOOD NEWS is not what I have done for God but what Christ has done for me. And God is still working in me to be more like Christ

That GOOD NEWS as available to all who believe in Christ.

Christianity does not leave any room for belief in Buda, Mohammad, Atheism or other religions. But then again Buda, Mohammad, Atheism and other religions do not leave any room for belief in Christ.

But isn't that what makes you a Christian, Hindu, Atheist or a Muslim?

It’s a choice and it all comes down to Faith.

Sorry for the long letter.

Leftoflarry wrote: "However, criticize atheism and it's no big deal...cause after all this religion of "tolerance" has no tolerance for atheists."

One of the problems is that atheism has become akin to being *against* God, actively working against organized religion, hating God for being God, and other nonsense, some of which has appeared in comments below. An atheist is just that, someone without beliefs in any supernatural being be it God or Thor or spirits of the woods. An atheist is always on the defensive against religions of all sorts and not actively seeking their distruction, but that is what some believers think. Why I do not know.

For example, when someone takes a public school system to court for teaching religious topics, such as "intelligent design", to all children, the christians who want that taught in the schools do not look on the lawsuit as someone not wanting someone elses beliefs taught to their children by the state, which is against the Constitution. Instead they see it as a direct assault on them and their God, ignoring that no one is suing to stop churches from preaching their fairy tales or blocking church doors to save the church goers from being deluded by the preaching or setting churches on fire to get them out of their neighborhoods.

Christians need to understand that religion is personal, is protected for anyone to practice any religion and that there is NO state religion. Keep religion in your churches and your homes and we will all live as our Constitution wants us to live, side by side as a nation free to believe in whatever God we wish, or no God at all. Few if any people are going out of their way to stop believers.

Its only when some believers think their belief should be everyone's belief that we have these blogging wars, atheists pointing out facts to explain their non-belief, christians citing biblical verses and how atheists will burn in hell forever and ever, but never offering a shread of proof of their claim except biblical citations. Our Constitution allows for the delusional to live in their delusions, but it does not allow them to define a state religion or push their religious views via state mechanisms, like schools or laws.

How christians can be horrified by the events of 9-11 and call the hijackers mad men, then turn around and spout the same deluded type of thinking, thinking that God is at war and believers are his warriors, is beyond me. Both groups are deluded. Christians love to point out why Muslim extremists are deluded, but never use the same logic to examine their own beliefs or how they push those belief on others.

Just another example of hypocrisy and double standards. As an atheist, I guarantee you, it's never a lousy day.

If this so called god is more interested in turning a sportsman life around and making him hit a record number home runs, rather than help the millions of childred afflicted with malaria, then who would want to worhsip this god anyway?
After all look at the wonderful intelligently designed body of ours? Wait, what are the stas on cancer? Get my drift?

Perhaps Reilly was caught up in the moment, but it only goes to show how ignorant it is to be religious...

Here is the funny thing...how many atheists are in prison today adjusted for general population ratios? When you look at thos stats, one can say, boy it's a lousy day to be a christian.

I think that this is exactly the example the fallacies of religious belief. You criticize religion and you are rained down wiht a fury from christians that mirrors fundamentalist muslims. However, criticize atheism and it's no big deal...cause after all this religion of "tolerance" has no tolerance for atheists.

m bresciani wrote: "what, athiests dont have imaginations, and figments. Yes and some fragments of figments in their imaginations. Not believing in God could be just a figment of their own underactive imaginations. Solipsism? Yes and poor at that for athiestic views.

Now this is original. You are saying that atheists are "imagining" that there is no God. Well, this can easily be remedied. Prove your God exists.

m bresciani wrote: "Grow Up"

Ditto.

Anonymous wrote: "Again, read Revelation 12:7-12, I didn’t write the bible but I do believe what it says to be truth, so it is not me versus them, it is God versus Satan."

This reminds me of an old joke where a white man man walks into a bar with an old dog and sits at the bar. Next to him is a black man minding his own business having a beer. The dog growls and bites the black man. The black man tells the white man to control his dog. The white man ignores the black man and the dog bites him again. The black man is getting angry now and demands the white man control his dog. The dog bites him again. The black man is very angry now and screams at the man "What are you, a racist?" The white man calmly looks at the black man and says "I don't have anything against black people, but ol' Butch, he doesn't like black people. I can't control what Butch thinks."

Your religious beliefs are determining who is your enemy and who is your friend. It IS "you versus them". Don't blame your religion for your actions. Control your religion.

Anonymous wrote: "No one is asking you to believe, but do not “condemn me for believing as a Christian."

I know many Christians who do not use their beliefs to attack other people's beliefs or non-beliefs. If you want respect for believing in fairy tales then respect those of us who see the fairy tale for what it is. And don't try to push your beliefs into public institutions like schools where children of many faiths, and atheists, have to continually watch for your religion's fairy tales being taught as truth. If you want to live in a deluded world that is your business, just don't expect thinking people to accept the obvious delusion.

As for Revelations, do you know who authored it? Do you know when it was written? What do you base your belief that this text is the word of God on?

I would point out that some "atheists" do believe in an "intelligent organizing force throughout the universe"--they just don't demean it by describing it as a childish, transparently anthropomorphic, iron-age fairy tale about a wrathful deity in the sky who takes an interest in home run derbies.

g martin, did you really expect me to respond with a willingness towards a peaceful end with your "jabs" of critisisms? Your post is pathetic!

what, athiests dont have imaginations, and figments. Yes and some fragments of figments in their imaginations. Not believing in God could be just a figment of their own underactive imaginations. Solipsism? Yes and poor at that for athiestic views.

Grow Up

THE THREE CHRISTS OF YPSILANTI

Book Review: Three mentally disordered men who all claim to be Jesus Christ are brought together by one psychiatrist. He watches the results and writes a book about his observations. The Three Christs of Ypsilanti was published in 1964 by Milton Rokeach, the conductor of the experiment at the Ypsilanti State Hospital in Michigan. It’s a hugely insightful study into the basis for delusional belief systems. Rokeach attempted to manipulate other aspects of the men’s delusions by inventing messages from imaginary characters. He did not, as he had hoped, provoke any lessening of the patients’ delusions, because the three set up the very first ‘Society of Christs’.

A reviewer on Amazon writes:

“The premise of Rokeach’s study (bringing people together who share the same delusion) has broad implications: in a culture with so many shared ideas and values, what sets us apart as individuals? In this 1960s experiment, of course, these three patients have been diagnosed with a proven pathology. In society at large most of us seek out friends and associates with whom we share a great deal; yet our sense of personality is still a matter of individual choices. At end, this was the same discovery Rokeach made with his three Christs; when confronted with the truth, these three men made personal choices allowing for the existence of the others — a society of Christs. I first read this in the early 1970s as part of an anthropology course, and although I am not a health care professional I found it a fascinating study, one that carries the reader with an almost novel-like flow. For those who read it with care, it will provoke a lot of questions about what makes us who we are, both as individuals and as members of society. A fictional parallel to many of the ideas in this book, though by no means exact, can be found in Nigel Dennis’s 1955 novel “Cards of Identity.”

The Three Christs of Ypsilanti

by Steve Bhaerman

Some 40 years ago, Dr. Milton Rokeach, a resident psychiatrist at Ypsilanti State Hospital in Michigan, performed an intriguing experiment. Three mental patients at the hospital all had delusions of being Jesus Christ. Dr. Rokeach wondered what would happen if the three Christs were put together in a therapy group. Would they relate to each other? And how would they accommodate each other’s delusions? The result of the experiment was a book, The Three Christs of Ypsilanti, which I read in a college psychology class.

I hadn’t thought about that book for years, until I was reminded of it by two seemingly unrelated news items. The first involved the Middle East peace process, which recently has been neither peaceful nor much of a process. A huge seemingly unresolvable dispute involves Jerusalem, which houses the sacred sites of three major religions. Someone had the enlightening suggestion that Jerusalem be ruled by God. Of course, the next question was, whose God?

The other news item was about the Catholic church declaring that for all intents and purposes, IT alone is the one sure way to heaven -- and perhaps more important, the only certain way to avoid hell. A friend of mine who owns a marketing business (and incidentally grew up Catholic) says, "I can only dream of having such an unbeatable marketing premise. Buy my product, go to heaven. Buy the other guy’s, go to hell." Not to single out the Catholics, though. Fundamentalists of every stripe play out a dyslexic version of that childhood taunt, "My dog’s better than your dog." Except that "my God’s better than your God" has caused millions of deaths and oceans of tears.

And that’s when it occurred to me that the three major religious systems are like the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. Each lives in a delusional system that it alone is the One True Path. And now, God has placed them all in a therapy group to see if they can accommodate one another.

It may sound a little extreme -- blasphemous even -- to refer to sacred systems of belief as "delusional." The dictionary defines "delusion" as a "belief held in spite of invalidating evidence." Now while there is not necessarily evidence that invalidates any particular religious belief -- evolutionism vs. creationism notwithstanding -- there is evidence that invalidates holding one religious system as more effective than another.

I’m referring to studies cited by Dr. Larry Dossey in his book on the healing power of prayer where some hospital patients are prayed for -- in a variety of religious expressions -- and a control group of patients in similar circumstances are not (although if someone actually slipped up and prayed for them, who would know?). Interestingly, the studies show that patients who were prayed for did better than those who weren’t. They recovered more quickly, experienced less discomfort, and had fewer complications. This experiment was repeated using animals -- and the results were the same! It seems that all that was needed was a prayerful intention, and the prayer worked. No one religious system proved any better than another.

This would seem to indicate that the belief that one’s own religious system is the ONLY valid one is indeed delusional because it flies in the face of current scientific evidence. Now I suppose if the Pope or the Ayatollah or an Orthodox rabbi or the Dalai Lama or the Maharishi wanted to organize a Religions of the World Series, we could turn prayer into a truly competitive event of Olympic proportions. And each year, some religion would get the bragging rights for winning the Pray-Offs. But as of now, the smart money would go with using a variety of modes of prayer instead of just one. Or, as Swami Beyondananda puts it, "Don’t put all your begs in one askit."

Which brings us to the Jerusalem issue, where both Muslims and Jews claim the same piece of turf as "their" sacred site. Well, just what is a sacred site, anyway? Martin Gray, a world traveler who has probably visited more sacred sites than anyone living today, has an interesting theory. These sacred sites, he says, may just be the Earth’s "shiatsu" points -- energy fields that pre-exist any particular religion. For example, places where people claim to have seen apparitions of Mother Mary, Gray claims, are actually sites where some form of feminine deity was worshipped long before the Christian era. So maybe those sacred sites in Jerusalem aren’t sacred because the Muslims or Jews or Christians say so -- but because they are sacred, period. Religions at their best are ways of interpreting this divine energy. At their worst -- well, look at the Middle East.

So what would it mean to have God rule Jerusalem? On a practical level, we could begin with the basic code that just about every religion has in common -- some variation of the Golden Rule. The ruling principle would be "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." No killing. No stealing. No false witness. That kind of stuff. There could be a panel of three clerics from each of the major religions with a stake in Jerusalem -- and also a stake in establishing a city truly ruled by God. How about a city where there are no guns, and where all residents have food and shelter? Just as in the East, shoes are taken off when entering sacred space, so upon entering Jerusalem, all weapons are left at the gates of the city (and it wouldn’t hurt to have metal detectors just in case). It would certainly be an interesting experiment worth trying.

Speaking of experiments, you might be wondering whatever became of the Three Chirsts. Well, my memory is a bit hazy having not looked at the book in 30 years. But I do remember that after meeting together for months, the three mental patients actually began relating to one another. The one who was most flexible (i.e., mentally healthy) was most willing to accommodate the other two, and the one who was most rigid remained more isolated. It was interesting that Dr. Rokeach equated mental health with the ability to accommodate seemingly different world views than one’s own. Only in this case, the issue was not so much the world view as who was "center" of this world.

It may be that our survival as a species depends on those who claim to represent God’s wishes emerging from their insular systems where they comfortably sit in the center of their worlds into the reality which we all share. What do you suppose Jesus himself would prefer -- people living his principles of "love thy neighbor as thyself" or warring with other children of God just because they drive their karmas "on the wrong side of the road?" Maybe it’s time we all recognize the sacred in all forms of spiritual expression, and reinforce them instead of looking for differences to fight over. It may hold the key to planetary sanity.

And here's a song for you…

Let’s Call the Old Thing Off

Music By George Gershwin
New Lyrics by Steve Bhaerman
(with help from Scott Kalechstein)

You say salaam and I say shalom
You throw a bomb, I blow up your home
Salaam, shalom
I blow up your home
Ah, let’s call the old thing off

You say baraka and I say barucha
Our blessings are sim’lar we must be mishpucha
Barucha, baraka this warfare is ca-ca
Let’s call the old thing off

Oh, if we call the old thing off .. nobody needs to be right
And oh, if we call the old thing off, we gotta do better than ... fight
(we gotta do better than .. fight)

I’ll take the kasha, you’ll take the kibbe
We both dig falafel but never pork ribbie
To kasha, to kibbe we’ll skip the pork ribbie
(at least there’s one thing we agree on ..)
Ah, haven’t we had enough?
Let’s call the old thing off

Fate wrote, “You sound just like Bush. This just shows you are already down the dark path. You have chosen to have enemies and the enemy is people who do not believe in your God. “

It is you refusal to acknowledge that my belief in scripture is just that and that it clear;ly states of the “war” as you put between good and bad, God and Satan.

Revelations 12: 7-12, “(7)And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8)And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9)And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10)And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(11)And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(12)Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Fate wrote, "I wasn't saying that all believers are heading down that path. I was saying that once you have an us-versus-them mentality, you basically become prejudiced, deciding how good or bad people are based on, in this case, their belief in God. That is a dark path that will lead to evil, always has, always will. As anyone in Al Qaida why it is ok to kill infidels."

Again, read Revelation 12:7-12, I didn’t write the bible but I do believe what it says to be truth, so it is not me versus them, it is God versus Satan. No one is asking you to believe, but do not “condemn me for believing as a Christian.

Fate wrote, “You mean all can come around to your way of thinking, to believe in your delusion. What you are really saying here is that until they do they are your enemy.”

I do not consider you “my” enemy, however, it is clear that you are a God hater from your intensity of criticisms in the Christian’s way of belief. That would place enmity between us by your own admission.

Fate wrote, “No, not when you define people as being with God or with Satan, good and evil, with your or against you. I do not accept Al Qaida's interpretation and I do not accept yours, which is identical.”

According to scripture, which I believe says the following ,

Luke 11:23, (23) "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters

Fate wrote, “I was pointing out that in the bible the heart was considered the center of feelings.”

Wrong, the bible considers the “soul” the seat (center) of a person’s passion (feelings). Don’t quote the bible if you have not studied it’s text and can accurately quote the meaning of it.

Fate wrote, “Yes you can. Its been done. It feels pain unless you think heart attacks are painless. It does not feel love or fear directly, the brain does, and the hormones the brain releases affect the heart. This has been studied scientifically. The bible is wrong about love being in the heart as it is wrong about many things indicating to me it can not be the word of an omnipotent god. You can choose to ignore that but don't expect me to cherry pick the words of your religion and ignore the contradictions.”

Wrong again, you should know by now that you should reference the studies to back up your statement. The feelings of pain, fear, and love in the heart are subjective, period

Anonymous wrote: "You speak of the war of evil against good, Jesus against Satan. No warping is involved; some are not God's children. Although the bible says that we all are created in the "image" of God, God also said "if you are not for me then you are against me."

You sound just like Bush. This just shows you are already down the dark path. You have chosen to have enemies and the enemy is people who do not believe in your God.

Anonymous wrote: "Why the threat that if someone believes as a Christian then they are on the brink or on the edge of a "dark path?"

I wasn't saying that all believers are heading down that path. I was saying that once you have an us-versus-them mentality, you basically become prejudiced, deciding how good or bad people are based on, in this case, their belief in God. That is a dark path that will lead to evil, always has, always will. As anyone in Al Qaida why it is ok to kill infidels.

Anonymous wrote: "Too bad, I always believe as a Christian that "all" are redeemable."

You mean all can come around to your way of thinking, to believe in your delusion. What you are really saying here is that until they do they are your enemy.

Anonymous wrote: "The difference between me and you is that I love and depend on God in my life, you however depend on your self. You need to yield respect for my beliefs and not condemnation; that creates a “divide” between you and me."

The divide is created by you saying that unless I believe in your God I am your enemy. As you say, good versus evil, where I am defined as evil though you know very little about me. That is prejudice and is the dark path in life.

Anonymous wrote: "A word of wisdom, save you threats of going down a dark path for someone else they do not penetrate me. I am way too strong to let your personal opinion have an affect on my personal Christian beliefs. I am rooted and grounded in the love of Christ and that will not change."

I've made up my mind? Don't confuse me with the facts? The facts are that you cannot prove an atheist wrong.

Anonymous wrote: "You believe your way which is, no belief in God, and I believe my way, which is in God. I love God and that is all there is to it."

No, not when you define people as being with God or with Satan, good and evil, with your or against you. I do not accept Al Qaida's interpretation and I do not accept yours, which is identical.

Anonymous wrote: "Your analogy of proof that the human heart feels love, fear, or pain is not proof. Yes, the human heart is a physical muscle but it is “well known” as the center of human feelings."

I was pointing out that in the bible the heart was considered the center of feelings. It is not, yet Christ spoke as though it was as do the writers of the old testament. That leads me to question whether these are God's words since a God would know the heart is not a center of feelings, but the brain is. In other words, the bible's testaments seem to have been written by men who did not understand their world very well. That is understandable of men 2000 years ago and older. If they get the heart wrong, the stars wrong, then maybe they got other things wrong too, things you probably choose to ignore less it lead you to question your belief, things I wonder if you have ever questioned.

Anonymous wrote: "The fact is you cannot prove the human heart feels love, fear or pain."

Yes you can. Its been done. It feels pain unless you think heart attacks are painless. It does not feel love or fear directly, the brain does, and the hormones the brain releases affect the heart. This has been studied scientifically. The bible is wrong about love being in the heart as it is wrong about many things indicating to me it can not be the word of an omnipotent god. You can choose to ignore that but don't expect me to cherry pick the words of your religion and ignore the contradictions.

As an atheist, I have to say, that this is an essay that begs not to have been written. I mean, to put it as gently as possible, who gives a darn?

DC atheist, "This is how wars start. Maybe you should start with what you say you believe, that we are all God's children, then maybe you and atheists can get along. If you start warping the bible into being YOUR religion and OTHERS who hate YOUR God, then you are heading down a dark path anyone, atheist and believer, can easily see."

You speak of the war of evil against good, Jesus against Satan. No warping is involved; some are not God's children. Although the bible says that we all are created in the "image" of God, God also said "if you are not for me then you are against me."

Why the threat that if someone believes as a Christian then they are on the brink or on the edge of a "dark path?" Too bad, I always believe as a Christian that "all" are redeemable. The difference between me and you is that I love and depend on God in my life, you however depend on your self. You need to yield respect for my beliefs and not condemnation; that creates a “divide” between you and me.

A word of wisdom, save you threats of going down a dark path for someone else they do not penetrate me. I am way too strong to let your personal opinion have an affect on my personal Christian beliefs. I am rooted and grounded in the love of Christ and that will not change. You believe your way which is, no belief in God, and I believe my way, which is in God. I love God and that is all there is to it.

Your analogy of proof that the human heart feels love, fear, or pain is not proof. Yes, the human heart is a physical muscle but it is “well known” as the center of human feelings. The attributes you describe do not prove that the heart is exhibiting love for another human being, outward show can easily be portrayed as an appearance of what we interpret as loving someone but can be done falsely.

The fact is you cannot prove the human heart feels love, fear or pain.

Have a great day. :~)

JJ the "reverse prophet". First he was campaigning for Romney. Romney lost. Then he was rooting for Hillary. Hillary lost. Now he is rooting for McCain.

JJ, why not try testing your power? This time, try campaigning for Obama. If Obama will lose the race, you'll be an instant celebrity/millionaire.

You'de be the first person to be hired by candidates to campaign against them.

We all know that beliefs, whether true or false, can influence our actions. If one believes that the most powerful being in the universe is one's personal friend----that would have a powerful effect on one's behavior. So anyway this baseball player feels that he has met God; well, good for him.

FUJI says "-- That's funny, because most of the atheists I know are sorta jerks. Most of the Christians I know contribute to food banks, tithe, and volunteer at homeless shelters."

...and support the death penalty, hunt animals, and elect politicians who could care less about the millions of Americans who live in poverty.

The double-standard theory of Kathy's is spot-on, but there's an additional, sorrier way in which it tells.

Imagine Hamilton were Roman Catholic, and a sportscaster said, "It's a bad day to be a Protestant!"

Or, if he were Orthodox Jewish, it'd follow, "Oy vey, it's a bad day to be a goy!"

Or, if he were Sunni Muslim, "A wretched day to be an infidel." [Only in Iraq, are Sunnis at war with the Shia.]

How many American Catholics, Jews, and Muslims would defend, even applaud, such an unsporting comment made at a ball game? How many Catholics, Jews, and Muslims in America would worry they were being too PC for thinking it was uncalled for? How many would, quite frankly, be embarrassed for one of theirs to say something so unAmerican at the great American pastime?

Myopic smugness isn't a problem for Evangelicals with other Americans, not like it should be for them with their Lord. Their problem with us is our religious freedom, which they reject as an obstacle to their goal of one nation under their god. We're supposed to not notice how unAmerican their goal is. To do that, we have to hold them to no standard.

Watch any world series and you will see both sides praying to God for a victory.
Some team always loses and some team always wins.
Good day to be an atheist !

Good for Hamilton that he got his life back together, whatever he attributes it to. O'Reilly's comment was kind of stupid, but not offensive. We'd all be better off if god confined himself to interfering in baseball games rather than punishing us by causing tsunamis, hurricanes, famines and collapsed buildings.

Anonymous: "Whar proof sir/madam can you offer or do you have that a human heart can feel love, fear, or pain?"

Setting aside whether the human "heart" feels, I think the more pointed question is what proof can be offered that one human loves another. I think there should be all sorts of evidence that someone loves someone else, so that it should be easy to show someone how you feel (to steal a line from the song "More Than Words"). The actions someone displays--doing nice things, hugging, consoling someone when sad, offering backrubs, sending gifts and flowers, helping someone take their car to the mechanic, etc.--should be some sort of proof. Not absolute proof, but certainly more proof than a wife beater who claims to love his wife. You should be able to look at what someone does and figure out if that person loves the other. That's the evidence that can be offered.

Dan: "Ah, Christianity, the latest performance enhancing drug of the masses."

ANONYMOUS: Tsk, tsk, such childish behavior coming from an adult.......at least I think it is an adult.

Derserving of the merits as a child's play on the palyground, you did it, no you did it, and so on and so forth.

Dan: HUH? Who's being childish? The guy claiming God is responsible for home runs? Or me making a quip construing athletic performance enhancement and Karl Marx's famous quote?

So, Anonymous -- if that is your real name -- are you a Christian? If so, is your faith so fragile that you take even an attempt at cleverness as confrontation?

I'm not offended by the comment, I think it's funny in the same childish and often homo erotic way that most sports jokes are. BUT, Reilly could have interchanged the name of any sect for much more dramatic effect. "It's a lousy day to be a Muslim!"

Anonymous wrote: "I said that but perhaps you did not read my post entirely. "FUNNY HOW ATHEISTS ARE ALWAYS COMMENTING ON WHAT "GOD" SHOULD BE DOING OR WHAT "GOD" HAS FAILED TO DO.........WHEN THEIR CLAIM IS THAT "GOD" DOESN'T EXIST."

Atheists are simply pointing out that you have your God doing all sorts of silly things, like helping a baseball player hit home runs, while children sit in hospitals, yet talk about God's mission for man in serious tones like heaven and hell. I mean, its pretty amazing to hear believers tell of how God made an A for them on a test, got a job promotion for them, etc. As the song says: 'your own personal Jesus'.

Anonymous wrote: "Also, there is no "irony" involved in it, it is matter of faith, and Christians have it and Atheist do not, plain and simple. The irony is that there is no sense arguing over it. Atheists are just "void" of spirituality, period."

You are equating faith in God with spirituality. Hmmm, I'll need to think about that. If God is required for spirituality, I guess you are correct, but I consider spirituality a mix of empathy and selfless charity toward others. You do not need God for that as the godless Chinese proved in heroic ways after the Sichuan earthquake, while Christian America let New Orlean's drown and its devote Christian president acted as though nothing had happened.

Anonymous wrote: "However, based on what you and other Atheist always post in reference to God, he must be a ‘figment of your imagination” too. Especially, since Atheist KEEP commenting on his decisions, acts, behaviors, personality, and how he handles matter in the world. Let me see, I would love to see one of the devices that Atheist put so much belief in, i.e. the firmaments of this world and get a miracle out of it."

What atheists are doing is reflecting what believers say or believe, and show it for what it is, imagination. I thought that was sort of obvious. For example, do your love your neighbor as yourself, or only if that neighbor is also a Christian, a requirement I don't remember seeing in the commandments.

Anonymous wrote: "But no need to worry Christians see Atheist through and through for what they really are…….God haters, otherwise they would not KEEP criticizing God and the Christian’s faith in God. It is such a pity because that is the very thing that drives a Christian away from an Atheist. Have a good day Neil. :~)"

You would have to believe in a God to hate that God. But thinking that atheists hate your God for some reason, and not your pushing of your beliefs on others, helps YOU to separate yourself from atheists and define them as an enemy. This is how wars start. Maybe you should start with what you say you believe, that we are all God's children, then maybe you and atheists can get along. If you start warping the bible into being YOUR religion and OTHERS who hate YOUR God, then you are heading down a dark path anyone, atheist and believer, can easily see.

Anonymous: The human heart is a pump, an efficient pump to be sure, but a pump nonetheless. I have no proof that the heart "feels" anything. I certainly do not take it on "faith" that the feelings of love, pain, compassion and other such attributes a lot of living creatures experience are part of what is called life; they are just there. I loved my parents and I love my friends. I cannot "prove" that to you, I just do. Once life ends upon death, I strongly suspect that such attributes die along with the physical body that has been harboring them. Other living things will be experiencing them and the pageantry of life will continue without me. Only the memory of me will remain for a while in those who love me, but that too will pass with time, as all things pass. I have no fear of that. Do you?

Fate:
Vinny wrote: "Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists."

As a former christian I can tell you Vinny that God does not like his chosen ones to lambaste anyone. According to what I was taught you will not sail into heaven. Better read your bible again.

As for how the universe and life came about, atheists don't "believe" anything. They read the scientific research and let the science lead us to the truth. In the case of believers, belief trumps reality, so dinosaurs are believed to have been contemporaries of man, even though there is not only no proof of that but proof against it. But as I said, belief trumps reality. Do you also avoid black cats and avoid stepping on cracks?

Since you seem to be so sure your beliefs are the real thing, in spite of reality, maybe you can answer a few questions I asked a nun in 3rd grade and got beaten for:

1) How did the kangaroos hop off the ark and make it to Australia?
2) Why did God put Satan in the garden of Eden where only good existed?
3) What was the purpose of God putting the tree of knowledge in the garden when man was not to use it and God certainly did not need it?
4) Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
5) Why did the dinosaurs die out and how?
6) Why did God create a universe 15 billion lightyears across but made earth 0.00000000005 lightyears across?
7) Did Jesus believe the earth was flat or round?
8) Explain how the Good Samaritan could have been so much more ethical without being a christian.
9) Why do human fossils have DNA but dinosaur fossils do not?
10) Why does God help a former addict play better baseball but not all those believers laying in hospital beds right now?

-- I don't believe you. Not for a second. You were never beaten up over these questions. You want to tell me that you asked a nun a question about DNA in third grade? This all smacks of a story worked over at night while plotting ways to "get even" with Christians. Sad.

B-man:
The so-called "atheists" that I've known are some of the most spiritual and compassionate people around.

I find most Christians to be decidedly un-spiritual and their compassion only goes so deep, as in they support the death penalty, they hunt animals, and they elect politicians who could care less about the millions of Americans who live in poverty.

-- That's funny, because most of the atheists I know are sorta jerks. Most of the Christians I know contribute to food banks, tithe, and volunteer at homeless shelters.

I guess my vote cancels out your vote, huh.

I have to say, as an athiest, I thought the quip was funny. Lighten up. I'm much more concerned about teaching of intelligent design and other misuses of religion than I am some statement during a Home Run Derby. Jeez!!... wait, am I allowed to say that?

The so-called "atheists" that I've known are some of the most spiritual and compassionate people around.

I find most Christians to be decidedly un-spiritual and their compassion only goes so deep, as in they support the death penalty, they hunt animals, and they elect politicians who could care less about the millions of Americans who live in poverty.

I am an atheist.
I find Reilly's comments offensive and insulting. I think he should be disciplined by his employer.

Abelard:, "What tangible proof do you have that human beings have souls? What positive proof do you have that individual consciousness survives physical death and thus your "soul"--and mine and everyone elses-- will "go" someplace? What proof can you supply that there is a god that determines where said souls will spend eternity and in what fashion"

Whar proof sir/madam can you offer or do you have that a human heart can feel love, fear, or pain?

Interesting disussion/debate. I would like to ask anyone here--or everywhere else--a few basic questions: What tangible proof do you have that human beings have souls? What positive proof do you have that individual consciousness survives physical death and thus your "soul"--and mine and everyone elses-- will "go" someplace? What proof can you supply that there is a god that determines where said souls will spend eternity and in what fashion? Finally, has anyone considered the possibility--the mere "posibility"--that when someone dies, the lights go out and he/she is gone forever? The life cycle of this planet--and I suspect of other inhabitable planets in our vast universe--continues and will continue without our self-centered stubborness to refuse to accept oblivion and would settle for anything but: give me heaven, oh, please give me heaven; give me hell if you must, but please don't give me oblivion. What a folly!

Dan: "Ah, Christianity, the latest performance enhancing drug of the masses."

Tsk, tsk, such childish behavior coming from an adult.......at least I think it is an adult.

Derserving of the merits as a child's play on the palyground, you did it, no you did it, and so on and so forth.

Ah, Christianity, the latest performance enhancing drug of the masses.

Merrili wrote "Did I miss something? Who was in the competition that was a self-defined atheist? Anyone? So it wasn't a "bad day" for atheists. He might as well have said it was a "bad day" for hyenas. Now the other religions that were represented in the competition, perhaps "God" did not approve of their devotion that day .... ?"

I'm guessing he meant that this guy's success in the home run derby is somehow proof of god's existence - the kind of infantile deduction that's more deserving of ridicule than offense.

Posted on July 19, 2008 10:38

George:
Where was god when Attila was here
Where was god when Stalin was here
Where was god when Hitler was here
Where was god when Manson was here
Where was god when Katrina was here
... Get my point...

Gad was probably at a baseball game..."

Where was the "O Wise Atheist? Huh?

Hi Neil,
"Anonymous, Atheists don't hate God. They believe that God is a figment of the imagination of credulous believers. When they say that God should take some time off from the Home Run Derby and visit the children's hospital, they are being ironic."

I said that but perhaps you did not read my post entirely. "FUNNY HOW ATHEISTS ARE ALWAYS COMMENTING ON WHAT "GOD" SHOULD BE DOING OR WHAT "GOD" HAS FAILED TO DO.........WHEN THEIR CLAIM IS THAT "GOD" DOESN'T EXIST."

Also, there is no "irony" involved in it, it is matter of faith, and Christians have it and Atheist do not, plain and simple. The irony is that there is no sense arguing over it. Atheists are just "void" of spirituality, period.

However, based on what you and other Atheist always post in reference to God, he must be a ‘figment of your imagination” too. Especially, since Atheist KEEP commenting on his decisions, acts, behaviors, personality, and how he handles matter in the world. Let me see, I would love to see one of the devices that Atheist put so much belief in, i.e. the firmaments of this world and get a miracle out of it.

But no need to worry Christians see Atheist through and through for what they really are…….God haters, otherwise they would not KEEP criticizing God and the Christian’s faith in God. It is such a pity because that is the very thing that drives a Christian away from an Atheist. Have a good day Neil. :~)

Did I miss something? Who was in the competition that was a self-defined atheist? Anyone? So it wasn't a "bad day" for atheists. He might as well have said it was a "bad day" for hyenas. Now the other religions that were represented in the competition, perhaps "God" did not approve of their devotion that day .... ?

On another note, I find the concept good day/bad day irrelevant to as an atheist. The day is what it is and the events are a culmination of chaos and man's attempt to control it. So I am not insulted. He simply doesn't comprehend the basics of atheism. He belongs to a very large subset.

Fate, I liked your post. But one thing I want to mention is that the Garden of Eden story never mentions Satan, nor does it ever imply that the serpent is Satan. That's a later revisionist reading that really doesn't make much sense if you look at the actual text. Interestingly, in the actual text the Serpent tells Eve that if she eats the fruit her eyes will be opened and she will be like gods, knowing good and evil. God, remember, had told Adam that if he ate the fruit he would die. Now what happens when Eve and Adam eat the fruit? The text says that their eyes are opened; even God says that they are now like God, knowing good and evil. They don't die, and there's no evidence that their "sin" brings death into the world, that they were going to be immortal until their "sin," which could have justified God's claim that they would die. So God apparently lies and the serpent tells the truth. Hmmm.

Where was god when Attila was here
Where was god when Stalin was here
Where was god when Hitler was here
Where was god when Manson was here
Where was god when Katrina was here
... Get my point...

Gad was probably at a baseball game...

Reilly is an equal opportunity offender, there's not much he's not willing to write or blurt out without wasting a lot of time on consideration of how it sounds.

Wherever he works, it's probably a lousy day to be an editor.

Anonymous, Atheists don't hate God. They believe that God is a figment of the imagination of credulous believers. When they say that God should take some time off from the Home Run Derby and visit the children's hospital, they are being ironic. Their point is that if there were indeed a God, it is rather silly to think that he/she would be concerned with the outcome of a home run contest or, more generally, would intervene in trivial human affairs.

why christian so easily change their religion if their bf/gf or when they married a moslem?? in my country so many christian from europe or america countries became moslem when when married the local moslem....even franck ribery the french soccerplayer became moslem just becos his wife a moslem...
why christian cant wear cross or say jesus in arab countries ??? but its OK for the moslem female to wear burqa in the predominantly christian countries??? is it becos of FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY the christian just let them do anything and everything ???
PLEASE ANSWER ME THIS!!

ert Chadick,
"Nobody ever got fired in America for smacking Atheists around, but that's OK, we're tough and can take it
If gods have time to oversee home run derbies how about afterwards they toddle over to the closest children's hospital and fix a few of those. No fair taking credit for statistical remissions."
July 18, 2008 11:20 PM

FUNNY HOW ATHEISTS ARE ALWAYS COMMENTING ON WHAT "GOD" SHOULD BE DOING OR WHAT "GOD" HAS FAILED TO DO.........WHEN THEIR CLAIM IS THAT "GOD" DOESN'T EXIST.

ATHEIST HAVE A THICK SKIN YOU SAY, THEN WHY ARE THEY SO CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT GOD IS NOT DOING AND CONSTANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT IT? WHAT, YOU THINK THAT GOD HAS FAILED TO MEET YOUR EXPECTATIONS IN LIFE SO YOU HATE HIM NOW? SURPRISE, SURPRISE, THE WAY OF THE ATHEIST..........HOW ANAL! ;~)

SEE ANY CONTRADICTIONS HERE?

god made man. man made steroids. man loves steroids (most notably, sports people). man is made in the image of god. god loves steroids!

Dumb Christian wrote: "Why would an atheist be so upset..? Somebody made a comment on what they believe in or.. what they don't believe in.. "

I agree, there is nothing an atheist should be upset about.

The real question is what would have happened had Hamilton been a fervent believer and then, after becoming an atheist, seen his baseball career take off. If the announcer had said its a bad day for christians would christians have seen it as a non-issue, or would this blog be hitting 2000 comments saying how Hamilton and the announcer were going to hell?

Another question: What would believers do who think this is divine intervention if they were to find out it was due to steroids? Steroids in baseball??? The horror!!!

Vinny wrote: "Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists."

As a former christian I can tell you Vinny that God does not like his chosen ones to lambaste anyone. According to what I was taught you will not sail into heaven. Better read your bible again.

As for how the universe and life came about, atheists don't "believe" anything. They read the scientific research and let the science lead us to the truth. In the case of believers, belief trumps reality, so dinosaurs are believed to have been contemporaries of man, even though there is not only no proof of that but proof against it. But as I said, belief trumps reality. Do you also avoid black cats and avoid stepping on cracks?

Since you seem to be so sure your beliefs are the real thing, in spite of reality, maybe you can answer a few questions I asked a nun in 3rd grade and got beaten for:

1) How did the kangaroos hop off the ark and make it to Australia?
2) Why did God put Satan in the garden of Eden where only good existed?
3) What was the purpose of God putting the tree of knowledge in the garden when man was not to use it and God certainly did not need it?
4) Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
5) Why did the dinosaurs die out and how?
6) Why did God create a universe 15 billion lightyears across but made earth 0.00000000005 lightyears across?
7) Did Jesus believe the earth was flat or round?
8) Explain how the Good Samaritan could have been so much more ethical without being a christian.
9) Why do human fossils have DNA but dinosaur fossils do not?
10) Why does God help a former addict play better baseball but not all those believers laying in hospital beds right now?