That Christianity has infused American sports is an undeniable reality, and in general it does not diminish my enjoyment as a spectator. I found Reilly's comment ignorant and nonsensical, rather than offensive. I did, however write a polite letter both to him and to ESPN about the questionable wisdom of making such remarks on the air. Other commenters here have pointed out that our culture is hypersensitized to political correctness, and that no one should make a fuss about this. I, on the other hand, think it is extremely telling that Reilly was apparently concerned with the ultra-PC climate into which he was broadcasting. He was presumably aware that it would be bad form to target any other non-evangelical group with that remark, so why did atheists slip through his filter?

Targeting atheists for disparagement seems to be the exception to this finely-tuned political correctness, and this incident is only the latest example. As an 'out' atheist, I support and participate in efforts to raise awareness of our presence in this country and of our right not to be discriminated against. Reilly's comment in and of itself was not discrimination, by any means, but it underscores some fairly widely-held beliefs which, if cultivated, can lead to discrimination.

My point on "Pascal's wager" was to show that everyone has faith in something. God, money, politics..whatever. If that was the only reason to believe in God it would be a shallow faith.

God is just that.... faith. As Jesus said "you can't see the wind but you know it's there because of the result." It also takes a certain amount of faith to belief in evolution. No human was there when the world began so no one really knows because no one has witnessed it first hand. So Faith is the basis of every belief.

Everyone asks why would God allow a disaster like Katrina or allow children to live in poverty or hunger. Why is there sickness and disease? If God really cared he would never allow that to happen.

The answer is free will. That was demonstrated with the first Man and Woman. The earth was created perfectly for them. They were given everything. God created man with a free will to choose right from wrong. Since God is the creator of all things (Satan included) He allowed evil to exist to present right and wrong to man. God explained to man the cost of making the wrong choice and the result is what we have today. Just think of how many children could be saved with the wealth available in the US and middle east. The billions that have been spent on oil could save thousands perhaps millions of starving children. But yet since we have free will we continue to allow people to live in poverty.

Don't think as a believer I'm blaming everyone else for our problems... I'm guilty of my own greed and selfishness.

Some people may think God is a puppet master by allowing all this to happen. But free will once again gives us our choice to do right or wrong.

Even though we made the wrong choice God still provided a way through Christ and the Gospel. (Which means “Good News”?) Some may think faith in Christ is too simple. But I have found walking with Christ is not simple. Christ demands that we put others before ourselves as Christ gave himself for us.

As a believer I have not succeeded in putting others before me. I have failed God in every phase of my life. But the GOOD NEWS is not what I have done for God but what Christ has done for me. And God is still working in me to be more like Christ

That GOOD NEWS as available to all who believe in Christ.

Christianity does not leave any room for belief in Buda, Mohammad, Atheism or other religions. But then again Buda, Mohammad, Atheism and other religions do not leave any room for belief in Christ.

But isn't that what makes you a Christian, Hindu, Atheist or a Muslim?

It’s a choice and it all comes down to Faith.

Sorry for the long letter.

Leftoflarry wrote: "However, criticize atheism and it's no big deal...cause after all this religion of "tolerance" has no tolerance for atheists."

One of the problems is that atheism has become akin to being *against* God, actively working against organized religion, hating God for being God, and other nonsense, some of which has appeared in comments below. An atheist is just that, someone without beliefs in any supernatural being be it God or Thor or spirits of the woods. An atheist is always on the defensive against religions of all sorts and not actively seeking their distruction, but that is what some believers think. Why I do not know.

For example, when someone takes a public school system to court for teaching religious topics, such as "intelligent design", to all children, the christians who want that taught in the schools do not look on the lawsuit as someone not wanting someone elses beliefs taught to their children by the state, which is against the Constitution. Instead they see it as a direct assault on them and their God, ignoring that no one is suing to stop churches from preaching their fairy tales or blocking church doors to save the church goers from being deluded by the preaching or setting churches on fire to get them out of their neighborhoods.

Christians need to understand that religion is personal, is protected for anyone to practice any religion and that there is NO state religion. Keep religion in your churches and your homes and we will all live as our Constitution wants us to live, side by side as a nation free to believe in whatever God we wish, or no God at all. Few if any people are going out of their way to stop believers.

Its only when some believers think their belief should be everyone's belief that we have these blogging wars, atheists pointing out facts to explain their non-belief, christians citing biblical verses and how atheists will burn in hell forever and ever, but never offering a shread of proof of their claim except biblical citations. Our Constitution allows for the delusional to live in their delusions, but it does not allow them to define a state religion or push their religious views via state mechanisms, like schools or laws.

How christians can be horrified by the events of 9-11 and call the hijackers mad men, then turn around and spout the same deluded type of thinking, thinking that God is at war and believers are his warriors, is beyond me. Both groups are deluded. Christians love to point out why Muslim extremists are deluded, but never use the same logic to examine their own beliefs or how they push those belief on others.

Just another example of hypocrisy and double standards. As an atheist, I guarantee you, it's never a lousy day.

If this so called god is more interested in turning a sportsman life around and making him hit a record number home runs, rather than help the millions of childred afflicted with malaria, then who would want to worhsip this god anyway?
After all look at the wonderful intelligently designed body of ours? Wait, what are the stas on cancer? Get my drift?

Perhaps Reilly was caught up in the moment, but it only goes to show how ignorant it is to be religious...

Here is the funny thing...how many atheists are in prison today adjusted for general population ratios? When you look at thos stats, one can say, boy it's a lousy day to be a christian.

I think that this is exactly the example the fallacies of religious belief. You criticize religion and you are rained down wiht a fury from christians that mirrors fundamentalist muslims. However, criticize atheism and it's no big deal...cause after all this religion of "tolerance" has no tolerance for atheists.

m bresciani wrote: "what, athiests dont have imaginations, and figments. Yes and some fragments of figments in their imaginations. Not believing in God could be just a figment of their own underactive imaginations. Solipsism? Yes and poor at that for athiestic views.

Now this is original. You are saying that atheists are "imagining" that there is no God. Well, this can easily be remedied. Prove your God exists.

m bresciani wrote: "Grow Up"

Ditto.

Anonymous wrote: "Again, read Revelation 12:7-12, I didn’t write the bible but I do believe what it says to be truth, so it is not me versus them, it is God versus Satan."

This reminds me of an old joke where a white man man walks into a bar with an old dog and sits at the bar. Next to him is a black man minding his own business having a beer. The dog growls and bites the black man. The black man tells the white man to control his dog. The white man ignores the black man and the dog bites him again. The black man is getting angry now and demands the white man control his dog. The dog bites him again. The black man is very angry now and screams at the man "What are you, a racist?" The white man calmly looks at the black man and says "I don't have anything against black people, but ol' Butch, he doesn't like black people. I can't control what Butch thinks."

Your religious beliefs are determining who is your enemy and who is your friend. It IS "you versus them". Don't blame your religion for your actions. Control your religion.

Anonymous wrote: "No one is asking you to believe, but do not “condemn me for believing as a Christian."

I know many Christians who do not use their beliefs to attack other people's beliefs or non-beliefs. If you want respect for believing in fairy tales then respect those of us who see the fairy tale for what it is. And don't try to push your beliefs into public institutions like schools where children of many faiths, and atheists, have to continually watch for your religion's fairy tales being taught as truth. If you want to live in a deluded world that is your business, just don't expect thinking people to accept the obvious delusion.

As for Revelations, do you know who authored it? Do you know when it was written? What do you base your belief that this text is the word of God on?

I would point out that some "atheists" do believe in an "intelligent organizing force throughout the universe"--they just don't demean it by describing it as a childish, transparently anthropomorphic, iron-age fairy tale about a wrathful deity in the sky who takes an interest in home run derbies.

g martin, did you really expect me to respond with a willingness towards a peaceful end with your "jabs" of critisisms? Your post is pathetic!

what, athiests dont have imaginations, and figments. Yes and some fragments of figments in their imaginations. Not believing in God could be just a figment of their own underactive imaginations. Solipsism? Yes and poor at that for athiestic views.

Grow Up

THE THREE CHRISTS OF YPSILANTI

Book Review: Three mentally disordered men who all claim to be Jesus Christ are brought together by one psychiatrist. He watches the results and writes a book about his observations. The Three Christs of Ypsilanti was published in 1964 by Milton Rokeach, the conductor of the experiment at the Ypsilanti State Hospital in Michigan. It’s a hugely insightful study into the basis for delusional belief systems. Rokeach attempted to manipulate other aspects of the men’s delusions by inventing messages from imaginary characters. He did not, as he had hoped, provoke any lessening of the patients’ delusions, because the three set up the very first ‘Society of Christs’.

A reviewer on Amazon writes:

“The premise of Rokeach’s study (bringing people together who share the same delusion) has broad implications: in a culture with so many shared ideas and values, what sets us apart as individuals? In this 1960s experiment, of course, these three patients have been diagnosed with a proven pathology. In society at large most of us seek out friends and associates with whom we share a great deal; yet our sense of personality is still a matter of individual choices. At end, this was the same discovery Rokeach made with his three Christs; when confronted with the truth, these three men made personal choices allowing for the existence of the others — a society of Christs. I first read this in the early 1970s as part of an anthropology course, and although I am not a health care professional I found it a fascinating study, one that carries the reader with an almost novel-like flow. For those who read it with care, it will provoke a lot of questions about what makes us who we are, both as individuals and as members of society. A fictional parallel to many of the ideas in this book, though by no means exact, can be found in Nigel Dennis’s 1955 novel “Cards of Identity.”

The Three Christs of Ypsilanti

by Steve Bhaerman

Some 40 years ago, Dr. Milton Rokeach, a resident psychiatrist at Ypsilanti State Hospital in Michigan, performed an intriguing experiment. Three mental patients at the hospital all had delusions of being Jesus Christ. Dr. Rokeach wondered what would happen if the three Christs were put together in a therapy group. Would they relate to each other? And how would they accommodate each other’s delusions? The result of the experiment was a book, The Three Christs of Ypsilanti, which I read in a college psychology class.

I hadn’t thought about that book for years, until I was reminded of it by two seemingly unrelated news items. The first involved the Middle East peace process, which recently has been neither peaceful nor much of a process. A huge seemingly unresolvable dispute involves Jerusalem, which houses the sacred sites of three major religions. Someone had the enlightening suggestion that Jerusalem be ruled by God. Of course, the next question was, whose God?

The other news item was about the Catholic church declaring that for all intents and purposes, IT alone is the one sure way to heaven -- and perhaps more important, the only certain way to avoid hell. A friend of mine who owns a marketing business (and incidentally grew up Catholic) says, "I can only dream of having such an unbeatable marketing premise. Buy my product, go to heaven. Buy the other guy’s, go to hell." Not to single out the Catholics, though. Fundamentalists of every stripe play out a dyslexic version of that childhood taunt, "My dog’s better than your dog." Except that "my God’s better than your God" has caused millions of deaths and oceans of tears.

And that’s when it occurred to me that the three major religious systems are like the Three Christs of Ypsilanti. Each lives in a delusional system that it alone is the One True Path. And now, God has placed them all in a therapy group to see if they can accommodate one another.

It may sound a little extreme -- blasphemous even -- to refer to sacred systems of belief as "delusional." The dictionary defines "delusion" as a "belief held in spite of invalidating evidence." Now while there is not necessarily evidence that invalidates any particular religious belief -- evolutionism vs. creationism notwithstanding -- there is evidence that invalidates holding one religious system as more effective than another.

I’m referring to studies cited by Dr. Larry Dossey in his book on the healing power of prayer where some hospital patients are prayed for -- in a variety of religious expressions -- and a control group of patients in similar circumstances are not (although if someone actually slipped up and prayed for them, who would know?). Interestingly, the studies show that patients who were prayed for did better than those who weren’t. They recovered more quickly, experienced less discomfort, and had fewer complications. This experiment was repeated using animals -- and the results were the same! It seems that all that was needed was a prayerful intention, and the prayer worked. No one religious system proved any better than another.

This would seem to indicate that the belief that one’s own religious system is the ONLY valid one is indeed delusional because it flies in the face of current scientific evidence. Now I suppose if the Pope or the Ayatollah or an Orthodox rabbi or the Dalai Lama or the Maharishi wanted to organize a Religions of the World Series, we could turn prayer into a truly competitive event of Olympic proportions. And each year, some religion would get the bragging rights for winning the Pray-Offs. But as of now, the smart money would go with using a variety of modes of prayer instead of just one. Or, as Swami Beyondananda puts it, "Don’t put all your begs in one askit."

Which brings us to the Jerusalem issue, where both Muslims and Jews claim the same piece of turf as "their" sacred site. Well, just what is a sacred site, anyway? Martin Gray, a world traveler who has probably visited more sacred sites than anyone living today, has an interesting theory. These sacred sites, he says, may just be the Earth’s "shiatsu" points -- energy fields that pre-exist any particular religion. For example, places where people claim to have seen apparitions of Mother Mary, Gray claims, are actually sites where some form of feminine deity was worshipped long before the Christian era. So maybe those sacred sites in Jerusalem aren’t sacred because the Muslims or Jews or Christians say so -- but because they are sacred, period. Religions at their best are ways of interpreting this divine energy. At their worst -- well, look at the Middle East.

So what would it mean to have God rule Jerusalem? On a practical level, we could begin with the basic code that just about every religion has in common -- some variation of the Golden Rule. The ruling principle would be "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." No killing. No stealing. No false witness. That kind of stuff. There could be a panel of three clerics from each of the major religions with a stake in Jerusalem -- and also a stake in establishing a city truly ruled by God. How about a city where there are no guns, and where all residents have food and shelter? Just as in the East, shoes are taken off when entering sacred space, so upon entering Jerusalem, all weapons are left at the gates of the city (and it wouldn’t hurt to have metal detectors just in case). It would certainly be an interesting experiment worth trying.

Speaking of experiments, you might be wondering whatever became of the Three Chirsts. Well, my memory is a bit hazy having not looked at the book in 30 years. But I do remember that after meeting together for months, the three mental patients actually began relating to one another. The one who was most flexible (i.e., mentally healthy) was most willing to accommodate the other two, and the one who was most rigid remained more isolated. It was interesting that Dr. Rokeach equated mental health with the ability to accommodate seemingly different world views than one’s own. Only in this case, the issue was not so much the world view as who was "center" of this world.

It may be that our survival as a species depends on those who claim to represent God’s wishes emerging from their insular systems where they comfortably sit in the center of their worlds into the reality which we all share. What do you suppose Jesus himself would prefer -- people living his principles of "love thy neighbor as thyself" or warring with other children of God just because they drive their karmas "on the wrong side of the road?" Maybe it’s time we all recognize the sacred in all forms of spiritual expression, and reinforce them instead of looking for differences to fight over. It may hold the key to planetary sanity.

And here's a song for you…

Let’s Call the Old Thing Off

Music By George Gershwin
New Lyrics by Steve Bhaerman
(with help from Scott Kalechstein)

You say salaam and I say shalom
You throw a bomb, I blow up your home
Salaam, shalom
I blow up your home
Ah, let’s call the old thing off

You say baraka and I say barucha
Our blessings are sim’lar we must be mishpucha
Barucha, baraka this warfare is ca-ca
Let’s call the old thing off

Oh, if we call the old thing off .. nobody needs to be right
And oh, if we call the old thing off, we gotta do better than ... fight
(we gotta do better than .. fight)

I’ll take the kasha, you’ll take the kibbe
We both dig falafel but never pork ribbie
To kasha, to kibbe we’ll skip the pork ribbie
(at least there’s one thing we agree on ..)
Ah, haven’t we had enough?
Let’s call the old thing off

Fate wrote, “You sound just like Bush. This just shows you are already down the dark path. You have chosen to have enemies and the enemy is people who do not believe in your God. “

It is you refusal to acknowledge that my belief in scripture is just that and that it clear;ly states of the “war” as you put between good and bad, God and Satan.

Revelations 12: 7-12, “(7)And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8)And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9)And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10)And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(11)And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(12)Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Fate wrote, "I wasn't saying that all believers are heading down that path. I was saying that once you have an us-versus-them mentality, you basically become prejudiced, deciding how good or bad people are based on, in this case, their belief in God. That is a dark path that will lead to evil, always has, always will. As anyone in Al Qaida why it is ok to kill infidels."

Again, read Revelation 12:7-12, I didn’t write the bible but I do believe what it says to be truth, so it is not me versus them, it is God versus Satan. No one is asking you to believe, but do not “condemn me for believing as a Christian.

Fate wrote, “You mean all can come around to your way of thinking, to believe in your delusion. What you are really saying here is that until they do they are your enemy.”

I do not consider you “my” enemy, however, it is clear that you are a God hater from your intensity of criticisms in the Christian’s way of belief. That would place enmity between us by your own admission.

Fate wrote, “No, not when you define people as being with God or with Satan, good and evil, with your or against you. I do not accept Al Qaida's interpretation and I do not accept yours, which is identical.”

According to scripture, which I believe says the following ,

Luke 11:23, (23) "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters

Fate wrote, “I was pointing out that in the bible the heart was considered the center of feelings.”

Wrong, the bible considers the “soul” the seat (center) of a person’s passion (feelings). Don’t quote the bible if you have not studied it’s text and can accurately quote the meaning of it.

Fate wrote, “Yes you can. Its been done. It feels pain unless you think heart attacks are painless. It does not feel love or fear directly, the brain does, and the hormones the brain releases affect the heart. This has been studied scientifically. The bible is wrong about love being in the heart as it is wrong about many things indicating to me it can not be the word of an omnipotent god. You can choose to ignore that but don't expect me to cherry pick the words of your religion and ignore the contradictions.”

Wrong again, you should know by now that you should reference the studies to back up your statement. The feelings of pain, fear, and love in the heart are subjective, period

Anonymous wrote: "You speak of the war of evil against good, Jesus against Satan. No warping is involved; some are not God's children. Although the bible says that we all are created in the "image" of God, God also said "if you are not for me then you are against me."

You sound just like Bush. This just shows you are already down the dark path. You have chosen to have enemies and the enemy is people who do not believe in your God.

Anonymous wrote: "Why the threat that if someone believes as a Christian then they are on the brink or on the edge of a "dark path?"

I wasn't saying that all believers are heading down that path. I was saying that once you have an us-versus-them mentality, you basically become prejudiced, deciding how good or bad people are based on, in this case, their belief in God. That is a dark path that will lead to evil, always has, always will. As anyone in Al Qaida why it is ok to kill infidels.

Anonymous wrote: "Too bad, I always believe as a Christian that "all" are redeemable."

You mean all can come around to your way of thinking, to believe in your delusion. What you are really saying here is that until they do they are your enemy.

Anonymous wrote: "The difference between me and you is that I love and depend on God in my life, you however depend on your self. You need to yield respect for my beliefs and not condemnation; that creates a “divide” between you and me."

The divide is created by you saying that unless I believe in your God I am your enemy. As you say, good versus evil, where I am defined as evil though you know very little about me. That is prejudice and is the dark path in life.

Anonymous wrote: "A word of wisdom, save you threats of going down a dark path for someone else they do not penetrate me. I am way too strong to let your personal opinion have an affect on my personal Christian beliefs. I am rooted and grounded in the love of Christ and that will not change."

I've made up my mind? Don't confuse me with the facts? The facts are that you cannot prove an atheist wrong.

Anonymous wrote: "You believe your way which is, no belief in God, and I believe my way, which is in God. I love God and that is all there is to it."

No, not when you define people as being with God or with Satan, good and evil, with your or against you. I do not accept Al Qaida's interpretation and I do not accept yours, which is identical.

Anonymous wrote: "Your analogy of proof that the human heart feels love, fear, or pain is not proof. Yes, the human heart is a physical muscle but it is “well known” as the center of human feelings."

I was pointing out that in the bible the heart was considered the center of feelings. It is not, yet Christ spoke as though it was as do the writers of the old testament. That leads me to question whether these are God's words since a God would know the heart is not a center of feelings, but the brain is. In other words, the bible's testaments seem to have been written by men who did not understand their world very well. That is understandable of men 2000 years ago and older. If they get the heart wrong, the stars wrong, then maybe they got other things wrong too, things you probably choose to ignore less it lead you to question your belief, things I wonder if you have ever questioned.

Anonymous wrote: "The fact is you cannot prove the human heart feels love, fear or pain."

Yes you can. Its been done. It feels pain unless you think heart attacks are painless. It does not feel love or fear directly, the brain does, and the hormones the brain releases affect the heart. This has been studied scientifically. The bible is wrong about love being in the heart as it is wrong about many things indicating to me it can not be the word of an omnipotent god. You can choose to ignore that but don't expect me to cherry pick the words of your religion and ignore the contradictions.

As an atheist, I have to say, that this is an essay that begs not to have been written. I mean, to put it as gently as possible, who gives a darn?

DC atheist, "This is how wars start. Maybe you should start with what you say you believe, that we are all God's children, then maybe you and atheists can get along. If you start warping the bible into being YOUR religion and OTHERS who hate YOUR God, then you are heading down a dark path anyone, atheist and believer, can easily see."

You speak of the war of evil against good, Jesus against Satan. No warping is involved; some are not God's children. Although the bible says that we all are created in the "image" of God, God also said "if you are not for me then you are against me."

Why the threat that if someone believes as a Christian then they are on the brink or on the edge of a "dark path?" Too bad, I always believe as a Christian that "all" are redeemable. The difference between me and you is that I love and depend on God in my life, you however depend on your self. You need to yield respect for my beliefs and not condemnation; that creates a “divide” between you and me.

A word of wisdom, save you threats of going down a dark path for someone else they do not penetrate me. I am way too strong to let your personal opinion have an affect on my personal Christian beliefs. I am rooted and grounded in the love of Christ and that will not change. You believe your way which is, no belief in God, and I believe my way, which is in God. I love God and that is all there is to it.

Your analogy of proof that the human heart feels love, fear, or pain is not proof. Yes, the human heart is a physical muscle but it is “well known” as the center of human feelings. The attributes you describe do not prove that the heart is exhibiting love for another human being, outward show can easily be portrayed as an appearance of what we interpret as loving someone but can be done falsely.

The fact is you cannot prove the human heart feels love, fear or pain.

Have a great day. :~)

JJ the "reverse prophet". First he was campaigning for Romney. Romney lost. Then he was rooting for Hillary. Hillary lost. Now he is rooting for McCain.

JJ, why not try testing your power? This time, try campaigning for Obama. If Obama will lose the race, you'll be an instant celebrity/millionaire.

You'de be the first person to be hired by candidates to campaign against them.

We all know that beliefs, whether true or false, can influence our actions. If one believes that the most powerful being in the universe is one's personal friend----that would have a powerful effect on one's behavior. So anyway this baseball player feels that he has met God; well, good for him.

FUJI says "-- That's funny, because most of the atheists I know are sorta jerks. Most of the Christians I know contribute to food banks, tithe, and volunteer at homeless shelters."

...and support the death penalty, hunt animals, and elect politicians who could care less about the millions of Americans who live in poverty.

The double-standard theory of Kathy's is spot-on, but there's an additional, sorrier way in which it tells.

Imagine Hamilton were Roman Catholic, and a sportscaster said, "It's a bad day to be a Protestant!"

Or, if he were Orthodox Jewish, it'd follow, "Oy vey, it's a bad day to be a goy!"

Or, if he were Sunni Muslim, "A wretched day to be an infidel." [Only in Iraq, are Sunnis at war with the Shia.]

How many American Catholics, Jews, and Muslims would defend, even applaud, such an unsporting comment made at a ball game? How many Catholics, Jews, and Muslims in America would worry they were being too PC for thinking it was uncalled for? How many would, quite frankly, be embarrassed for one of theirs to say something so unAmerican at the great American pastime?

Myopic smugness isn't a problem for Evangelicals with other Americans, not like it should be for them with their Lord. Their problem with us is our religious freedom, which they reject as an obstacle to their goal of one nation under their god. We're supposed to not notice how unAmerican their goal is. To do that, we have to hold them to no standard.

Watch any world series and you will see both sides praying to God for a victory.
Some team always loses and some team always wins.
Good day to be an atheist !

Good for Hamilton that he got his life back together, whatever he attributes it to. O'Reilly's comment was kind of stupid, but not offensive. We'd all be better off if god confined himself to interfering in baseball games rather than punishing us by causing tsunamis, hurricanes, famines and collapsed buildings.

Anonymous: "Whar proof sir/madam can you offer or do you have that a human heart can feel love, fear, or pain?"

Setting aside whether the human "heart" feels, I think the more pointed question is what proof can be offered that one human loves another. I think there should be all sorts of evidence that someone loves someone else, so that it should be easy to show someone how you feel (to steal a line from the song "More Than Words"). The actions someone displays--doing nice things, hugging, consoling someone when sad, offering backrubs, sending gifts and flowers, helping someone take their car to the mechanic, etc.--should be some sort of proof. Not absolute proof, but certainly more proof than a wife beater who claims to love his wife. You should be able to look at what someone does and figure out if that person loves the other. That's the evidence that can be offered.

Dan: "Ah, Christianity, the latest performance enhancing drug of the masses."

ANONYMOUS: Tsk, tsk, such childish behavior coming from an adult.......at least I think it is an adult.

Derserving of the merits as a child's play on the palyground, you did it, no you did it, and so on and so forth.

Dan: HUH? Who's being childish? The guy claiming God is responsible for home runs? Or me making a quip construing athletic performance enhancement and Karl Marx's famous quote?

So, Anonymous -- if that is your real name -- are you a Christian? If so, is your faith so fragile that you take even an attempt at cleverness as confrontation?

I'm not offended by the comment, I think it's funny in the same childish and often homo erotic way that most sports jokes are. BUT, Reilly could have interchanged the name of any sect for much more dramatic effect. "It's a lousy day to be a Muslim!"

Anonymous wrote: "I said that but perhaps you did not read my post entirely. "FUNNY HOW ATHEISTS ARE ALWAYS COMMENTING ON WHAT "GOD" SHOULD BE DOING OR WHAT "GOD" HAS FAILED TO DO.........WHEN THEIR CLAIM IS THAT "GOD" DOESN'T EXIST."

Atheists are simply pointing out that you have your God doing all sorts of silly things, like helping a baseball player hit home runs, while children sit in hospitals, yet talk about God's mission for man in serious tones like heaven and hell. I mean, its pretty amazing to hear believers tell of how God made an A for them on a test, got a job promotion for them, etc. As the song says: 'your own personal Jesus'.

Anonymous wrote: "Also, there is no "irony" involved in it, it is matter of faith, and Christians have it and Atheist do not, plain and simple. The irony is that there is no sense arguing over it. Atheists are just "void" of spirituality, period."

You are equating faith in God with spirituality. Hmmm, I'll need to think about that. If God is required for spirituality, I guess you are correct, but I consider spirituality a mix of empathy and selfless charity toward others. You do not need God for that as the godless Chinese proved in heroic ways after the Sichuan earthquake, while Christian America let New Orlean's drown and its devote Christian president acted as though nothing had happened.

Anonymous wrote: "However, based on what you and other Atheist always post in reference to God, he must be a ‘figment of your imagination” too. Especially, since Atheist KEEP commenting on his decisions, acts, behaviors, personality, and how he handles matter in the world. Let me see, I would love to see one of the devices that Atheist put so much belief in, i.e. the firmaments of this world and get a miracle out of it."

What atheists are doing is reflecting what believers say or believe, and show it for what it is, imagination. I thought that was sort of obvious. For example, do your love your neighbor as yourself, or only if that neighbor is also a Christian, a requirement I don't remember seeing in the commandments.

Anonymous wrote: "But no need to worry Christians see Atheist through and through for what they really are…….God haters, otherwise they would not KEEP criticizing God and the Christian’s faith in God. It is such a pity because that is the very thing that drives a Christian away from an Atheist. Have a good day Neil. :~)"

You would have to believe in a God to hate that God. But thinking that atheists hate your God for some reason, and not your pushing of your beliefs on others, helps YOU to separate yourself from atheists and define them as an enemy. This is how wars start. Maybe you should start with what you say you believe, that we are all God's children, then maybe you and atheists can get along. If you start warping the bible into being YOUR religion and OTHERS who hate YOUR God, then you are heading down a dark path anyone, atheist and believer, can easily see.

Anonymous: The human heart is a pump, an efficient pump to be sure, but a pump nonetheless. I have no proof that the heart "feels" anything. I certainly do not take it on "faith" that the feelings of love, pain, compassion and other such attributes a lot of living creatures experience are part of what is called life; they are just there. I loved my parents and I love my friends. I cannot "prove" that to you, I just do. Once life ends upon death, I strongly suspect that such attributes die along with the physical body that has been harboring them. Other living things will be experiencing them and the pageantry of life will continue without me. Only the memory of me will remain for a while in those who love me, but that too will pass with time, as all things pass. I have no fear of that. Do you?

Fate:
Vinny wrote: "Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists."

As a former christian I can tell you Vinny that God does not like his chosen ones to lambaste anyone. According to what I was taught you will not sail into heaven. Better read your bible again.

As for how the universe and life came about, atheists don't "believe" anything. They read the scientific research and let the science lead us to the truth. In the case of believers, belief trumps reality, so dinosaurs are believed to have been contemporaries of man, even though there is not only no proof of that but proof against it. But as I said, belief trumps reality. Do you also avoid black cats and avoid stepping on cracks?

Since you seem to be so sure your beliefs are the real thing, in spite of reality, maybe you can answer a few questions I asked a nun in 3rd grade and got beaten for:

1) How did the kangaroos hop off the ark and make it to Australia?
2) Why did God put Satan in the garden of Eden where only good existed?
3) What was the purpose of God putting the tree of knowledge in the garden when man was not to use it and God certainly did not need it?
4) Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
5) Why did the dinosaurs die out and how?
6) Why did God create a universe 15 billion lightyears across but made earth 0.00000000005 lightyears across?
7) Did Jesus believe the earth was flat or round?
8) Explain how the Good Samaritan could have been so much more ethical without being a christian.
9) Why do human fossils have DNA but dinosaur fossils do not?
10) Why does God help a former addict play better baseball but not all those believers laying in hospital beds right now?

-- I don't believe you. Not for a second. You were never beaten up over these questions. You want to tell me that you asked a nun a question about DNA in third grade? This all smacks of a story worked over at night while plotting ways to "get even" with Christians. Sad.

B-man:
The so-called "atheists" that I've known are some of the most spiritual and compassionate people around.

I find most Christians to be decidedly un-spiritual and their compassion only goes so deep, as in they support the death penalty, they hunt animals, and they elect politicians who could care less about the millions of Americans who live in poverty.

-- That's funny, because most of the atheists I know are sorta jerks. Most of the Christians I know contribute to food banks, tithe, and volunteer at homeless shelters.

I guess my vote cancels out your vote, huh.

I have to say, as an athiest, I thought the quip was funny. Lighten up. I'm much more concerned about teaching of intelligent design and other misuses of religion than I am some statement during a Home Run Derby. Jeez!!... wait, am I allowed to say that?

The so-called "atheists" that I've known are some of the most spiritual and compassionate people around.

I find most Christians to be decidedly un-spiritual and their compassion only goes so deep, as in they support the death penalty, they hunt animals, and they elect politicians who could care less about the millions of Americans who live in poverty.

I am an atheist.
I find Reilly's comments offensive and insulting. I think he should be disciplined by his employer.

Abelard:, "What tangible proof do you have that human beings have souls? What positive proof do you have that individual consciousness survives physical death and thus your "soul"--and mine and everyone elses-- will "go" someplace? What proof can you supply that there is a god that determines where said souls will spend eternity and in what fashion"

Whar proof sir/madam can you offer or do you have that a human heart can feel love, fear, or pain?

Interesting disussion/debate. I would like to ask anyone here--or everywhere else--a few basic questions: What tangible proof do you have that human beings have souls? What positive proof do you have that individual consciousness survives physical death and thus your "soul"--and mine and everyone elses-- will "go" someplace? What proof can you supply that there is a god that determines where said souls will spend eternity and in what fashion? Finally, has anyone considered the possibility--the mere "posibility"--that when someone dies, the lights go out and he/she is gone forever? The life cycle of this planet--and I suspect of other inhabitable planets in our vast universe--continues and will continue without our self-centered stubborness to refuse to accept oblivion and would settle for anything but: give me heaven, oh, please give me heaven; give me hell if you must, but please don't give me oblivion. What a folly!

Dan: "Ah, Christianity, the latest performance enhancing drug of the masses."

Tsk, tsk, such childish behavior coming from an adult.......at least I think it is an adult.

Derserving of the merits as a child's play on the palyground, you did it, no you did it, and so on and so forth.

Ah, Christianity, the latest performance enhancing drug of the masses.

Merrili wrote "Did I miss something? Who was in the competition that was a self-defined atheist? Anyone? So it wasn't a "bad day" for atheists. He might as well have said it was a "bad day" for hyenas. Now the other religions that were represented in the competition, perhaps "God" did not approve of their devotion that day .... ?"

I'm guessing he meant that this guy's success in the home run derby is somehow proof of god's existence - the kind of infantile deduction that's more deserving of ridicule than offense.

Posted on July 19, 2008 10:38

George:
Where was god when Attila was here
Where was god when Stalin was here
Where was god when Hitler was here
Where was god when Manson was here
Where was god when Katrina was here
... Get my point...

Gad was probably at a baseball game..."

Where was the "O Wise Atheist? Huh?

Hi Neil,
"Anonymous, Atheists don't hate God. They believe that God is a figment of the imagination of credulous believers. When they say that God should take some time off from the Home Run Derby and visit the children's hospital, they are being ironic."

I said that but perhaps you did not read my post entirely. "FUNNY HOW ATHEISTS ARE ALWAYS COMMENTING ON WHAT "GOD" SHOULD BE DOING OR WHAT "GOD" HAS FAILED TO DO.........WHEN THEIR CLAIM IS THAT "GOD" DOESN'T EXIST."

Also, there is no "irony" involved in it, it is matter of faith, and Christians have it and Atheist do not, plain and simple. The irony is that there is no sense arguing over it. Atheists are just "void" of spirituality, period.

However, based on what you and other Atheist always post in reference to God, he must be a ‘figment of your imagination” too. Especially, since Atheist KEEP commenting on his decisions, acts, behaviors, personality, and how he handles matter in the world. Let me see, I would love to see one of the devices that Atheist put so much belief in, i.e. the firmaments of this world and get a miracle out of it.

But no need to worry Christians see Atheist through and through for what they really are…….God haters, otherwise they would not KEEP criticizing God and the Christian’s faith in God. It is such a pity because that is the very thing that drives a Christian away from an Atheist. Have a good day Neil. :~)

Did I miss something? Who was in the competition that was a self-defined atheist? Anyone? So it wasn't a "bad day" for atheists. He might as well have said it was a "bad day" for hyenas. Now the other religions that were represented in the competition, perhaps "God" did not approve of their devotion that day .... ?

On another note, I find the concept good day/bad day irrelevant to as an atheist. The day is what it is and the events are a culmination of chaos and man's attempt to control it. So I am not insulted. He simply doesn't comprehend the basics of atheism. He belongs to a very large subset.

Fate, I liked your post. But one thing I want to mention is that the Garden of Eden story never mentions Satan, nor does it ever imply that the serpent is Satan. That's a later revisionist reading that really doesn't make much sense if you look at the actual text. Interestingly, in the actual text the Serpent tells Eve that if she eats the fruit her eyes will be opened and she will be like gods, knowing good and evil. God, remember, had told Adam that if he ate the fruit he would die. Now what happens when Eve and Adam eat the fruit? The text says that their eyes are opened; even God says that they are now like God, knowing good and evil. They don't die, and there's no evidence that their "sin" brings death into the world, that they were going to be immortal until their "sin," which could have justified God's claim that they would die. So God apparently lies and the serpent tells the truth. Hmmm.

Where was god when Attila was here
Where was god when Stalin was here
Where was god when Hitler was here
Where was god when Manson was here
Where was god when Katrina was here
... Get my point...

Gad was probably at a baseball game...

Reilly is an equal opportunity offender, there's not much he's not willing to write or blurt out without wasting a lot of time on consideration of how it sounds.

Wherever he works, it's probably a lousy day to be an editor.

Anonymous, Atheists don't hate God. They believe that God is a figment of the imagination of credulous believers. When they say that God should take some time off from the Home Run Derby and visit the children's hospital, they are being ironic. Their point is that if there were indeed a God, it is rather silly to think that he/she would be concerned with the outcome of a home run contest or, more generally, would intervene in trivial human affairs.

why christian so easily change their religion if their bf/gf or when they married a moslem?? in my country so many christian from europe or america countries became moslem when when married the local moslem....even franck ribery the french soccerplayer became moslem just becos his wife a moslem...
why christian cant wear cross or say jesus in arab countries ??? but its OK for the moslem female to wear burqa in the predominantly christian countries??? is it becos of FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY the christian just let them do anything and everything ???
PLEASE ANSWER ME THIS!!

ert Chadick,
"Nobody ever got fired in America for smacking Atheists around, but that's OK, we're tough and can take it
If gods have time to oversee home run derbies how about afterwards they toddle over to the closest children's hospital and fix a few of those. No fair taking credit for statistical remissions."
July 18, 2008 11:20 PM

FUNNY HOW ATHEISTS ARE ALWAYS COMMENTING ON WHAT "GOD" SHOULD BE DOING OR WHAT "GOD" HAS FAILED TO DO.........WHEN THEIR CLAIM IS THAT "GOD" DOESN'T EXIST.

ATHEIST HAVE A THICK SKIN YOU SAY, THEN WHY ARE THEY SO CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT GOD IS NOT DOING AND CONSTANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT IT? WHAT, YOU THINK THAT GOD HAS FAILED TO MEET YOUR EXPECTATIONS IN LIFE SO YOU HATE HIM NOW? SURPRISE, SURPRISE, THE WAY OF THE ATHEIST..........HOW ANAL! ;~)

SEE ANY CONTRADICTIONS HERE?

god made man. man made steroids. man loves steroids (most notably, sports people). man is made in the image of god. god loves steroids!

Dumb Christian wrote: "Why would an atheist be so upset..? Somebody made a comment on what they believe in or.. what they don't believe in.. "

I agree, there is nothing an atheist should be upset about.

The real question is what would have happened had Hamilton been a fervent believer and then, after becoming an atheist, seen his baseball career take off. If the announcer had said its a bad day for christians would christians have seen it as a non-issue, or would this blog be hitting 2000 comments saying how Hamilton and the announcer were going to hell?

Another question: What would believers do who think this is divine intervention if they were to find out it was due to steroids? Steroids in baseball??? The horror!!!

Vinny wrote: "Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists."

As a former christian I can tell you Vinny that God does not like his chosen ones to lambaste anyone. According to what I was taught you will not sail into heaven. Better read your bible again.

As for how the universe and life came about, atheists don't "believe" anything. They read the scientific research and let the science lead us to the truth. In the case of believers, belief trumps reality, so dinosaurs are believed to have been contemporaries of man, even though there is not only no proof of that but proof against it. But as I said, belief trumps reality. Do you also avoid black cats and avoid stepping on cracks?

Since you seem to be so sure your beliefs are the real thing, in spite of reality, maybe you can answer a few questions I asked a nun in 3rd grade and got beaten for:

1) How did the kangaroos hop off the ark and make it to Australia?
2) Why did God put Satan in the garden of Eden where only good existed?
3) What was the purpose of God putting the tree of knowledge in the garden when man was not to use it and God certainly did not need it?
4) Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
5) Why did the dinosaurs die out and how?
6) Why did God create a universe 15 billion lightyears across but made earth 0.00000000005 lightyears across?
7) Did Jesus believe the earth was flat or round?
8) Explain how the Good Samaritan could have been so much more ethical without being a christian.
9) Why do human fossils have DNA but dinosaur fossils do not?
10) Why does God help a former addict play better baseball but not all those believers laying in hospital beds right now?

Just goes to show how secure atheists are in knowing there are no gods of any type. It also typifies the insecurity of believers of every type who have to prop up their beliefs with miracles, then not only get offended when you point out the fallacy of their beliefs but will actually go to war over them.

In Hamilton's case, he traded a destructive addiction for a non-destructive one. Good for him, but he's still an addict, and the ESPN announcer is a typical insecure "believer". And this is supposed to be good?

Vinny:

If god created all, then by logical extentsion of your indepth complex analysis, everything must be created by something, so who created him?

Further, whats the problem with with us evolving from primordial ooze anyway? Doesnt bother me.

No one knows if god exists or not. Deal with it.

I don't find the comment particularly offensive, but it certainly diminishes my view of the commentator's rational cognitive abilities. I've always found sports figures who attribute their success to god to be at once incredibly arrogant (to believe that a supreme being would give a toss about their insignificant game), and at the same time, oddly self-loathing (to think it has to do with anything but their own skill, hard work, or luck).

My personal opinion of people who go from alcohol or drug addiction to hardcore religion is that they've just traded one addiction for another. If it happens to save them from self-destruction then it's certainly a good trade.

We atheists tend to be a pretty thick-skinned and well adjusted lot, as you might expect from people who feel no need to imagine a great protector in the sky to make it through the day.

I very much agree that had the comment been directed at any other minority group it would have kicked off a firestorm and the guy would probably have been fired the next day. But this is nothing new. Bush Sr. while running for president responded to a question from a reporter that he didn't think atheists should be considered citizens or patriots. I don't think the comment was mentioned at all by the mainstream press. That's the world we live in, unfortunately.

Nobody ever got fired in America for smacking Atheists around, but that's OK, we're tough and can take it

If gods have time to oversee home run derbies how about afterwards they toddle over to the closest children's hospital and fix a few of those. No fair taking credit for statistical remissions.

Er, let's see, the overt born-again Xian LOST the home run derby contest.

I'd say it was a bad day to be an overt, born-again Xian.

A true atheist would be amused at Rick Reilly's rib.

There is no relationship between Hamilton's success and his "born again" religiousness other than he is a very good athlete who has found a new and powerful confidence in himself, through a new-found belief in religion.

If the Christian God generally confers special powers on true believers, the believers would easily rule their sports, not to mention rule the world.

A true atheist would be happy for Josh Hamilton, that he has found and built himself anew in his religion. Atheists are properly not anti-religion, except where particular religions or agents of religion become aggressive and intrude unwanted into others' lives. Atheists simply don't believe in supernatural beings we define as deities.

And all the home runs that Josh Hamilton may make in the name of religion in his life-time will not change that equation.

My comment will likely not be read. Especially because so many participants hog the facility. Nevertheless (a favorite word of mine), I would like to point out that the ignorant A__H___S who we see on TV kneeling and/or crossing themselves after a touchdown or home run, etc., thanking this petty God THEY have created in their minds(?) who spends his(sex?) time counting hairs, and birds that fall instead of doing anything about the starving, DYING, and abused millions of children and innocents in this World HE(?) has created - ACTUALLY ORDAINED THEIR TOUCHDOWN OR HOMERUN, ETC.
IT IS A REAL PITY FOR US THAT MORE THAN 50% OF THE HUMAN RACE IS STUPID AND INGNORANT!!!!

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall. Hail Satan!

Vinny,

I don't know what kind of medication your doctor has you on, but it's sure obvious that the dosage is way too high. Please call 911 before it's too late!

..and "Atheist" is really a completely useless term.

Is there a term for people who don't believe Elvis is still alive?

Atheists don't believe in patently anthropomorphic fairy tales, whether Christian , Muslim, or Jewish.

If you're a Christian, you're also an atheist...to the God of Islam, the Gods of Mt. Olympus, etc.

Atheists are just a bit more intelligent and go one God further.

121 comments now from poor little atheists crying cause somebody made fun of them.

I feel sorry for the little atheists now. I would sure hate having to defend atheism too.

Folks, our little atheists believe that all LIVING THINGS on the earth today; all plants, all trees, all vegetables, fruit trees, every single creature on the earth, whether in the ocean, lakes rivers or streams, whether on land or in the air; that ALL **HUMAN BEINGS** with their outstandingly complex brain's, circulatory systems, nervous systems, digestive and lymphatic systems, immune systems along with the ability to procreate through a remarkable Reproductive system; yep EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING that we see out there today arose either from some self-replicating polymer, which arose from DEAD MATTER, from sosme PRIMORDIAL SOUP-like quagmire, all on it's own, without any guiding force WHATSOEVER.

Folks, our little atheists also believe that the entire UNIVERSE with all of it's PRECISION and ORDER and POWER just happened to result from some COSMIC EXPLOSION, without ANY INTELLECTUAL FORCE behind it at all, yet resulting in such precise alignment, that we humans (who came from that soup/dead-matter/polymer etc.) can tell exactly when and where planets, moons, comets, asteroids, stars etc. etc. will be located at any given moment in time.

Yep, our little atheists believe that in the middle of this intricate, expanding, gargantuan universe, our perfectly located, tilted, spinning and orbiting EARTH just happened to fall right into place (and stays in place) with atmosphere, ozone layer, water cycles, just the exact amount of oxygen and other delicately balanced systems due to some fortuitous series of LUCK.

A continuous stream of "FAT CHANCES" that all just fell right into place so that all of this LIFE could then arise from those soup-like, dead matter conditions where a polymer can turn into the human brain and beyond.

Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists.

: )

Notice how this author manipulates the story to get reactions: If it is a lousy day for atheists, nothing more has been said than that we have been witnessing somebody who is doing really well, practices religion, and we think this may be because he has been doing this religious practice. Somebody who practices religion, you can oppose to an atheist.

The paragraph about Jews and buddhists is coming right out of the author's own mind, however. If the reporter had said that it was a lousy day for muslims, or any other religion, he could have meant that islamic, or any other, religious practice leads to fewer results than christian practice. He simply has not said that. You can think of a lot of things Hamilton is, and others aren't. The reporter just said atheist, nothing more.

Also notice the author's view on the world when she talks about "THE atheists". Sounds like they are a football team.

Have a good weekend, all.

Think First: Have you ever participated in this debate before? Because this one has been pretty typical. It's difficult for people who live by reason and empiricism to understand and tolerate people who live by superstition and abnegation, and vice versa. I don't wish to contemplate subtleties and flavors of nonsense, just as sheep don't wish to contemplate independent thought. So while this debate continues for generations (until enlightenment prevails), I'll continue to be deliberately contentious, and you can lecture as you wish, even though your comments strike me as the most pompous in the whole thread!

Seems like a pretty silly comment. Now if so many people who call themselves religious weren't hardline supporters of violence against their enemies (most certainly including the alcohol supremacist war on users of selected drugs), maybe that would strengthen religion's appeal at the expense of atheism.
I agree with Iris DeMent's song - "let the mystery be".

There is no God. That's my story and I am sticking to it. Even if there was, do you think he cares about Josh Hamilton's homers but lets millions die every day? However, people are entitled to believe in whatever fantasy they wish. It's when they try to shove it down other's throats that it becomes offensive. The networks need to keep sports in sports and their godviews at home not at work.

Offended? No. I've come to expect such drivel at every turn. I especially appreciate the christian tendency to blame everything good on some invisible sky fairy and evertything bad on some unknown plan. Just another stupid christian trick. Yawn!

After reading a sampling of posts to this article, I wasn't able to turn up a single atheist offended at the sports guy's comment. (I know I must have missed some, since someone, somewhere is always offended at something.)

I did, however, see numerous posts by religious people assuming that atheists were offended, and then constructing arguments in vigorous defense of their beliefs as if they had been attacked.

If someone is sensitive on this matter, it doesn't seem to be the unbelievers.

Just an observation...

A THOUGHT:
"If the Christians are right then the Atheist's are in big trouble."

And if any of the believers of the multitude of other religions people have followed throughout history are right, then the Christians are in big trouble too.

Unfortunately, the defensiveness and insults on both sides of this issue appear to have reduced any hope of a discussion into mere name-calling and casting of broad and lazy generalizations. To assume that every single last one of the many millions of people in the world and throughout history who have chosen to worship a certain faith or belief system all think (or *don't* think, as the patronizing self-important commenters enjoy saying) in the exact same, unexamined, "sheep"-ish manner is immature and absurd. Whether that shared belief system is in the form of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or a firm opposition to all of the above, lobbing base insults is a strikingly uninformed and deliberately contentious way of stating your thoughts. Are you interested in getting your opinion across and perhaps hearing what others have to say, or simply in taking pot-shots at anyone who doesn't think like you do? I don't claim immunity to taking shots, but I do try to aim them not at enormous collective groups, but rather at individuals who have already demonstrated an ability and inclination to be pompous jerks. Good luck proving your point, genius.

Unfortunately, the defensiveness and insults on both sides of this issue appear to have reduced any hope of a discussion into mere name-calling and casting of broad and lazy generalizations. To assume that every single last one of the many millions of people in the world and throughout history who have chosen to worship a certain faith or belief system all think (or *don't* think, as the patronizing self-important commenters enjoy saying) in the exact same, unexamined, "sheep"-ish manner is immature and absurd. Whether that shared belief system is in the form of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or a firm opposition to all of the above, lobbing base insults is a strikingly uninformed and deliberately contentious way of stating your thoughts. Are you interested in getting your opinion across and perhaps hearing what others have to say, or simply in taking pot-shots at anyone who doesn't think like you do? I don't claim immunity to taking shots, but I do try to aim them not at enormous collective groups, but rather at individuals who have already demonstrated an ability and inclination to be pompous jerks. Good luck proving your point, genius.

This is what interests me. How do Kathy Orton and the Washington Post analyze a post like this and others like it? Do they measure the success of the article by the number of comments made about it? Are the comments classified as favorable or unfavorable? What, besides providing an opportunity for argument, is a rational reason for for discussing the most insignificant events?

Actually, I am fed up with this 'post your comment' feature; I read this one only to see if it is like the rest.

R M Kraus Akron OH

This is what interests me. How do Kathy Orton and the Washington Post analyze a post like this and others like it? Do they measure the success of the article by the number of comments made about it? Are the comments classified as favorable or unfavorable? What, besides providing an opportunity for argument, is a rational reason for for discussing the most insignificant events?

Actually, I am fed up with this 'post your comment' feature; I read this one only to see if it is like the rest.

R M Kraus Akron OH

Atheists see many things in the universe that persuade them that there is no God. Others see things, such as the dramatic turn-around of an athelete's life, as clear evidence of the hand of God.

Atheists often say that it's got to be tough (if not impossible) to believe in God when faced with . . .

It's no more disparaging for a believer to say that it's got to be tough to be an atheist when you see . . .

Will confirmed atheists disagree and say, "heck no, it's not tough at all!" Of course. Just as believers are unmoved by many of the arguments advanced by atheists.

I am not an atheist....i take offenso to that word...is there a word for someone who doesn't believe in the tooth fairy or Peter Pan????....point made.
Ricardo Mesa

Three years as a coke head, and then he found God? This does much to explain, I imagine, the moral underpinnings of the religious right.

-----------

Hee hee, three years on that stuff will make you believe anything, including the invisible man in the sky!

jhbyer wrote:

"Take President Reagan and astrology, for example, except note, in the face of his success, no astrologers were reported to gloat: 'It's a bad day for nonbelievers'. "

What success? Talk about believing the myth...

Three years as a coke head, and then he found God? This does much to explain, I imagine, the moral underpinnings of the religious right.

I watched the HR hitting contest, and it was a little bit of an oddball comment, but I didn't think it was that offensive. What is offensive is how much of a blowhard Rick Reilly is. He brought up Hamilton's former heroine addiction 5 or 6 times (and referred to it as such, not as a drug problem), and tried to inject additional significance into every moment that occurred. He's an a$$. I do agree with the columnist though... if Rick Reilly said, "This is a bad day to be a Jew," he'd have been panned. Or, imagine if he said, "Hamilton's a white guy killing the ball... bad day to be black or Hispanic." Yikes. I can't even imagine the blowback. Probably bad enough to get Jesse Jackson his career back.

Let's see--over three years as a coke head and he found God. That certainly goes a long way to explain the moral underpinnings of the religious right, no?

I watched the HR hitting contest, and it was a little bit of an oddball comment, but I didn't think it was that offensive. What is offensive is how much of a blowhard Rick Reilly is. He brought up Hamilton's former heroine addiction 5 or 6 times (and referred to it as such, not as a drug problem), and tried to inject additional significance into every moment that occurred. He's an a$$. I do agree with the columnist though... if Rick Reilly said, "This is a bad day to be a Jew," he'd have been panned. Or, imagine if he said, "Hamilton's a white guy killing the ball... bad day to be black or Hispanic." Yikes. I can't even imagine the blowback. Probably bad enough to get Jesse Jackson his career back.

I watched the HR hitting contest, and it was a little bit of an oddball comment, but I didn't think it was that offensive. What is offensive is how much of a blowhard Rick Reilly is. He brought up Hamilton's former heroine addiction 5 or 6 times (and referred to it as such, not as a drug problem), and tried to inject additional significance into every moment that occurred. He's an a$$. I do agree with the columnist though... if Rick Reilly said, "This is a bad day to be a Jew," he'd have been panned. Or, imagine if he said, "Hamilton's a white guy killing the ball... bad day to be black or Hispanic." Yikes. I can't even imagine the blowback. Probably bad enough to get Jesse Jackson his career back.

I watched the HR hitting contest, and it was a little bit of an oddball comment, but I didn't think it was that offensive. What is offensive is how much of a blowhard Rick Reilly is. He brought up Hamilton's former heroine addiction 5 or 6 times (and referred to it as such, not as a drug problem), and tried to inject additional significance into every moment that occurred. He's an a$$. I do agree with the columnist though... if Rick Reilly said, "This is a bad day to be a Jew," he'd have been panned. Or, imagine if he said, "Hamilton's a white guy killing the ball... bad day to be black or Hispanic." Yikes. I can't even imagine the blowback. Probably bad enough to get Jesse Jackson his career back.

So when a baseball player strikes out...does he *blame* God?

If everyone in a stadium is praying for "their" team to win, does God choose sides and *make* one of the teams win.

According to Reilly's apparent logic, everything good in life happens because of God, everything bad in life happens because of humans.

This is patent stupidity.

So when a baseball player strikes out...does he *blame* God?

If everyone in a stadium is praying for "their" team to win, does God choose sides and *make* one of the teams win.

According to Reilly's apparent logic, everything good in life happens because of God, everything bad in life happens because of humans.

This is patent stupidity.

I didn't hear it, but it sounds like a tempest in a glass of water. People say things on occasions. It's not that important. We don't have to scrutinize and take very seriously everything that is blurted into a microphone. (I say that as an atheist.)

Atheists? Chuck Colson is right. No such thing.

Why would an atheist be so upset..? Somebody made a comment on what they believe in or.. what they don't believe in.. Yes I'm a dumb Christian.. But a very humble one too.. Thank you God..

If Reilly didn't "so much as want to disparage atheists as point out Hamilton turned his life around" he'd have done it. Ms. Orton's painful stretch is more offensive than Reilly's plainly stupid remark. Atheists are the last to deny that desperate people, who lack faith in themselves, may place it instead in superstition to positive effect.

Take President Reagan and astrology, for example, except note, in the face of his success, no astrologers were reported to gloat: "It's a bad day for nonbelievers".

Ms. Orton might consider the role of Christians' boast of superior humility as a cause of Reilly's remark.

Here's my statement of faith: I have faith that someday there'll be something worth reading in the "On Faith" blog (or whatever it is). By definition that's a longshot, but that's what makes it faith, I suppose.

Reilly's comment is a total non-issue. I'll save my indignation for something more important thank you.

This is so stupid and lame. But I laughed when I read what he said. Dumb christians.

We live during a time when, in the USA, you can't say anything without someone being "offended." No matter how innocuous, every utterance is over analyzed and picked apart by some group. The mindset is, "what matters is what I believe, not what you believe, and therefore, you cannot say that because it offends me and what I hold to be true. You should think of me and not voice what you think and feel." What a selfish way to live and think. So Reilly said this. Big deal! I can think of many more important things in the world than what this guy said during a sporting event. Believe it or not, folks, what you think and feel just isn't that important.

It's been a lousy eight years to be a Christian...illegal wars, corruption, homosexual trysts, a faltering economy. God sure has fixed the Republican Party good.

"Vinny:

The little atheists whine again.

The little atheists are "hurt" cause somebody used the word atheist in a less than flattering way.

It have to say reading threads like this make me smile.

Atheism is just foolish, boring, laughable nonsense.

Sure folks, every single thing we see today; the entire gargantuan universe itself, the earth with countless system after system, perfectly balanced to sustain life as we have it right now; along with all that LIFE ITSELF all arrived through FAT CHANCE AND LOTS O' LUCKY THINGS... AND ALL FROM NOTHING AT ALL... BY NOBODY AT ALL.

THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing being an atheist.

Yet they whine and cry because somebody said the word atheist in a baseball game.

Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists!"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Upon ready the story Vinny, you'll see that not very many people complained at all and Reilly did not face any repercussions the way we can just assume he would have had he offended you and your fellow sheep. I see you pounced right on the story as an opportunity to bash atheists instead of coming up with a post that in any way related to or responded to the article. "THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing to be an atheist?" Really buddy, this is the toughest part about following that belief system? You sound so intelligent. I bet you're Christian right? :)

"Vinny:

The little atheists whine again.

The little atheists are "hurt" cause somebody used the word atheist in a less than flattering way.

It have to say reading threads like this make me smile.

Atheism is just foolish, boring, laughable nonsense.

Sure folks, every single thing we see today; the entire gargantuan universe itself, the earth with countless system after system, perfectly balanced to sustain life as we have it right now; along with all that LIFE ITSELF all arrived through FAT CHANCE AND LOTS O' LUCKY THINGS... AND ALL FROM NOTHING AT ALL... BY NOBODY AT ALL.

THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing being an atheist.

Yet they whine and cry because somebody said the word atheist in a baseball game.

Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists!"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Upon ready the story Vinny, you'll see that not very many people complained at all and Reilly did not face any repercussions the way we can just assume he would have had he offended you and your fellow sheep. I see you pounced right on the story as an opportunity to bash atheists instead of coming up with a post that in any way related to or responded to the article. "THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing to be an atheist?" Really buddy, this is the toughest part about following that belief system? You sound so intelligent. I bet you're Christian right? :)

I thought it was more distasteful when he made the ridiculous comment that there were too many white guys in the derby, or when brainless out of touch Chris Berman made the Christians and the Lions comment that was completely out of place and tasteless, but then again most of what comes out of his mouth is. ESPN needs to send these 2 guys out to pasture. Reilly's addition has been a mediocre, pointless one at best and Berman is lazy, out of touch and dopey and it shows every time he speaks.

"Vinny:

The little atheists whine again.

The little atheists are "hurt" cause somebody used the word atheist in a less than flattering way.

It have to say reading threads like this make me smile.

Atheism is just foolish, boring, laughable nonsense.

Sure folks, every single thing we see today; the entire gargantuan universe itself, the earth with countless system after system, perfectly balanced to sustain life as we have it right now; along with all that LIFE ITSELF all arrived through FAT CHANCE AND LOTS O' LUCKY THINGS... AND ALL FROM NOTHING AT ALL... BY NOBODY AT ALL.

THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing being an atheist.

Yet they whine and cry because somebody said the word atheist in a baseball game.

Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists!"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Upon ready the story Vinny, you'll see that not very many people complained at all and Reilly did not face any repercussions the way we can just assume he would have had he offended you and your fellow sheep. I see you pounced right on the story as an opportunity to bash atheists instead of coming up with a post that in any way related to or responded to the article. "THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing to be an atheist?" Really buddy, this is the toughest part about following that belief system? You sound so intelligent. I bet you're Christian right? :)

I thought it was more distasteful when he made the ridiculous comment that there were too many white guys in the derby, or when brainless out of touch Chris Berman made the Christians and the Lions comment that was completely out of place and tasteless, but then again most of what comes out of his mouth is. ESPN needs to send these 2 guys out to pasture. Reilly's addition has been a mediocre, pointless one at best and Berman is lazy, out of touch and dopey and it shows every time he speaks.

I thought it was more distasteful when he made the ridiculous comment that there were too many white guys in the derby, or when brainless out of touch Chris Berman made the Christians and the Lions comment that was completely out of place and tasteless, but then again most of what comes out of his mouth is. ESPN needs to send these 2 guys out to pasture. Reilly's addition has been a mediocre, pointless one at best and Berman is lazy, out of touch and dopey and it shows every time he speaks.

A Thought wrote:
"If the Athiest's are right. Who cares how you lived your life... Who cares what you believed...After you die there's no one there to judge you for what you did. it's over."

This is perhaps the most common "sin" committed against atheists in trying to dismiss their beliefs (yes, beliefs, albeit philosophical if not spiritual). That we don't think that there will be someone/something conducting a "let's go to the videotape..." type judgment on us after we pass does not mean that we feel we have free reign in our conduct in the here and now.

If anything, it argues the reverse: This is the life we are given and it is up to us to make it the best one possible, precisely because it is the only chance we will have. (OK, I may have thrown in a dose of existentialism.)

My personal take on it is more a rejection of the fearmongering that typifies most organized religions. I don't want to be coerced into "good" behavior because of the threat of punishment. I believe the right path should be self-evident on its own merit.

But the slander committed against atheists is akin to my characterizing Catholics as believing that they can do whatever the hell they like as long as they repent before they kick. That would be a gross injustice (though I have met a few...)

And for the record, yes, my BA is in philosophy.

What a dumb discussion. I watched the entire home run derby and didn't even notice the comment. Who cares?

LKurt: "Your statement expresses very strong faith."
****************************************
My statement expresses no faith.

isnt it curious how people do not fully get the truth of the statement that "(Organized) Religion is The Opiate of The Masses", even with ENDLESS examples of those with addiction issues turning to "god" (small g intentional) to fill their need for a crutch to ease the issues/voices in their own lives/heads.

Spirituality - Yes
Organized Religion - No

The issue with these converts is that they are unhappy people who NEED to feel better - and the usual way for them to feel BETTER without their drugs is to try to impose their organized religion onto others .... that is a fact jack.

From Sam Kinison:

(It's 2am)
Hello Pat, yeah this is God. Go out and check the pressure in your car tires (God laughing). I know it's late but I want you to do it. That's it, now check the rear tires..

To "a thought:" That's called Pascals wager, been around for hundreds of years.

To "Yonkers Rob:"
Theologists - Think there's a god; but can't prove it.
Atheists - Think there isn't a god; but can't procve it.

Ah Rob, ya can't prove a negative dude...

As an atheist, I must say "God damn Reilly!"

God works in mysterious ways...

I don't think the Athesits have a prayer...

The ultimate result of what we believe (our faith) is not completed or finished in how many homeruns we hit (or in anything else on this earth). It is a basic foundation of what we believe will happen to us when we die.

Christians believe you go to heaven when you die and spend eternity with God. They believe Christ has forgiven you and accepts you based on your belief that his death (sacrifice) on the cross covers your sin and pays the price demanded by a just God for our sin. (in a nutshell)

Atheist's believe after death all existence ends. Life is over, everything is over. There is no Super being taking into account how they lived their lives.

Based on logic I would think it takes much more faith to be a Atheist then a Christian.

If the Christians are right then the Atheist's are in big trouble. They will be expected to owe up to a supreme God who demands justice and will take into account how they lived their life and extract a price for their shortcomings.

If the Athiest's are right. Who cares how you lived your life... Who cares what you believed...After you die there's no one there to judge you for what you did. it's over.

Just a thought

Stuart: "A lack of faith does not a faith make."

Your statement expresses very strong faith. The same kind Catholics and Jews have. We need to progress from this kind of absolutism to a position of understanding of faith rather than denial of it.

Maybe atheists don't like baseball

"Stuart:

Well I think it's funny that the god made Josh Hamilton smoke crack just so he could hit some home runs. What a jerk!"

.... not at all, Stuart... if you want any consistency in your theology, you must admit that if it's all part of god's divine plan, then god did indeed make Josh Hamilton smoke crack ... it's all part of god's plan, right? That's what all the holy rollers keep telling me/us.

When I heard him say it, I recall saying "When is it a GREAT day to be an atheist?"

I thought the whole thing was simply a ridiculous comment.

Agnosticism - the one and only known TRUTH.

Theologists - Think there's a god; but can't prove it.
Atheists - Think there isn't a god; but can't procve it.

Agnostics - Are brave enough to answer with the truest statement of them all: I DON'T KNOW, and DON'T expect to figure it out any time soon.

--------------------------

Then there are Scientologists - who are a cult of con-artists following the 'sacret' texts of a mediocre science fiction author.

Who believe:
Xenu, the ruler of the Galactic Confederacy who brought billions of frozen people to Earth 75 million years ago, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs, creating swarms of disembodied alien souls known as Body Thetans.

-------------------------

Agnosticism - "Either admit you don't know the answer; or sound like a lun insisting you don."

Next the ACLU will seek a speration between Church and sports.. Or will the Washington Post...

What a moronic comment, he's a sports dude trying to be clever, nothing more...

As someone once said with exasperation over the holy rollers like Tom LaSorda and others who attribute all their hits etc., to Jesus, or whoever, "I never saw Jesus throw a strike or get a hit."

In other words, good for Josh Hamilton for picking himself out of the gutter, how nice for him to believe whatever he wants to believe re: how he's done/is doing that.

But the attribution of the home run or anything to Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, or L. Ron Hubbard is a bunch of crap.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" indeed.

"If it is okay to single out atheists, but not Jews or Muslims, where does that leave us on Buddhists? How about Christian Scientists?"

You must have missed the US presidential primary last year and this. Of course it's okay to single out atheists in the USA. That's what the last 28 years have been about. It's always okay to single out the weakest individuals and groups. That's just the way the world works: "Might makes right" is an irrefutable absolute truth, even if it is circular. Still, Reilly's remark was a less offensive attempt (all mere attempts are failures) at humor than the New Yorker's most recent cover. PC outrage is little different from road rage.

LKurt: "Atheism is a faith, and it may be a better one."
*******************************************

A lack of faith does not a faith make.

You know why complaints were so minimal? It's because atheists are smart enough not to let the quips of newscaster affect our understanding of reality. If Reilly had reversed his statement, the religious right would still be throwing a tantrum. Perhaps its because they're a little defensive? People that have logic, reason and, dare I say, common sense on their side have no need to be defensive. I don't know, could it be that religious people, deep down, realize that they're really playing make-believe?

Well I think it's funny that the god made Josh Hamilton smoke crack just so he could hit some home runs. What a jerk!

"JP:
Let me get this straight - there's a God who cares enough to help someone win the Home Run Derby, but the same God let those little Amish girls get shot to death in Lancaster County last year?

And people worship this God?"

Yes that is accurate.

Justin Morneau WON the Home Run Derby and scored the game-winning run in the All Star Game.

Clearly, God is a Minnesota Twins fan.

"Since "God" is just a fairy tale told to allow young children cope with death and other metaphysical crises,"

Actually it is a fairy tale to help adults cope with death.

What kind of outcry would you have seen? A jihad perhaps? A new crusade? Or Fox 'news' saying that there is a war on Muslims/Christians?

Maybe all of the above?

Maybe us athiests are sick of being pushed to the background, shunned, and generally not included. or misrepresented, or ashamed of our 'christian' nation?

Maybe it's all of that?

Sack it Jesus. :)

JP: yup...

I have trouble understanding what the controversy is here. It was a rim-shot jest from a pro humorist, a lighthearted bit of a quip aimed at a participant in sports fluff of the fluffiest sort.

I thought is was funny, laughed out loud and then promptly forgot the comment until this thread.

Yikes. We have become a nation populated by humorless morons, of all religous and non-religous stripes, with enough typing skills to cobble their rage into sorta sentences.

Here is the Truth: God is an alcoholic

I have trouble understanding what the controversy is here. It was a rim-shot jest from a pro humorist, a lighthearted bit of a quip aimed at a participant in sports fluff of the fluffiest sort.

I thought is was funny, laughed out loud and then promptly forgot the comment until this thread.

Yikes. We have become a nation populated by humorless morons, of all religous and non-religous stripes, with enough typing skills to cobble their rage into sorta sentences.

Here is the Trusth: God is an alcoholic

Agnostic: "By definition, atheism is not a faith."

I continue to recommend you guys stop saying this. It reveals your ignorance of the terms of belief and destroys your credibility. Atheism is a faith, and it may be a better one. That is for our culture to decide.

Let me get this straight - there's a God who cares enough to help someone win the Home Run Derby, but the same God let those little Amish girls get shot to death in Lancaster County last year?

And people worship this God?

When Michael Vick was caught engaging in that disgusting, indefensible animal torture called dogfighting, did Reilly say, as all sportscasters and writers should have: "Let us now acknowledge that anyone who engages in dogfighting is a worthless scumbag who deserves to die a slow and painful death."
No? Not one sportscaster or writer in the entire United States did?
Then why should we listen to any of these sports morons? They are clearly a bunch of immoral cretins.

Just remember, that's the same god that sends tornados to trailer parks.

*thin skin

Part of the issue was Rick Reilly's comedic timing. If I remember correctly, he made the remark seemingly out of the blue while Hamilton was on a tear. If he had made the remark right after one of the interview's with Hamilton, where Hamilton was thanking God for his accomplishments, it would've felt much more like a light-hearted joke.

Instead, he made the comment at a time where it was seemingly unprovoked. It sounded more like he was saying "Well what do you think about *this*, atheists?"

All in all, not a big deal alone, but I think it does say interesting things about the pro-religion bias in society, and the think skin of Christians.

On the one hand, I imagine most atheists would have to try to have a sense of humor about this sort of thing, I'm sure it was meant in jest.

On the other hand, the politicization of baseball, from "God Bless America" being added to the 7th inning stretch, to whatever inane political/religious comments broadcasters may feel free to make in this particular age of radio (where these personalities are forced to fill massive amounts of time droning on about the cultural impact of sports, etc) is not a good thing for the national pastime. Let's keep it about the game, hey?

I'm a huge Josh Hamilton fan, and if the dude needs a higher power to keep him off the sauce then so be it, so long as he keeps ripping the cover off the ball.

Jeez Vinnie, chill. Trying to explain the "truth" of religion using "logic" just doesn't cut it. I think you fell out of the short bus. Hurry and run you just might be able to catch it.

I find this kind of thing hilarious. Since "God" is just a fairy tale told to allow young children cope with death and other metaphysical crises, who cares what the announcer says?! Baseball is full of superstitions. Thanking a god for your performance on the field is no less batty than wearing the same stinking socks every day for a season because you're on a streak.

If God helps one player, isn't that at the expense of another player, similarly one of God's creatures?

Does God favor a prodigal who has reformed over a man who has been righteous all of his days?

If I am to be called an "atheist" because I don't believe some big guy with a white beard controls existence, does that also make me an "ayetiist" because I don't believe in the abominable snowman, or an "afaerieist" because I don't believe in faeries?

For the answers to these and other questions, consult... Well, just think, dammit!

If God helps one player, isn't that at the expense of another player, similarly one of God's creatures?

Does God favor a prodigal who has reformed over a man who has been righteous all of his days?

If I am to be called an "atheist" because I don't believe some big guy with a white beard controls existence, does that also make me an "ayetiisst" because I don't believe in the abominable snowman, or an "afaerieist" because I don't believe in faeries?

For the answers to these and other questions, consult... Well, just think, dammit!

By definition, atheism is not a faith. It is acceptable to delineate the taboo: criticism based on race, ethnicity, religion, sex, and sexual orientation is inappropriate on, say, ESPN. It is incompatible with atheism to elevate the beliefs to the level of faith; it also demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what the "atheist" claims to believe in. Criticism of a belief or position is acceptable dialogue: look at any number of political shows.

Had Hamilton's reclamation of his life been
inspired by joining the Green party, Mr.
Reilly's comment would have been "It's a bad
day to be a Republican." This may be a weird comment to make on ESPN, but it's not equivalent to racial or religious criticism.

If only this much thought and debate were aimed at the future of our country, instead of comments made at the circus.

I do love all this overanalysis of Rick Reilly's comments.

Has anybody ever read Reilly's columns?? He tries to be funny. That's what he does. That's why he is so prominent and successful.

Everyone needs to relax. Read The New Yorker.

Shalom,
An atheist

To Ivan: ROFL - great comment!

If there is a God, could He please smite the Yankees even unto the fifth generation?

I seriously don't even know what the comment means, especially in the context of a man hitting a ball. Does belief in a higher power enhance your hand-eye coordination?

I would call myself an atheist. On any given day in this country it's a bad day to be an atheist, so it's pretty hard to get worked up about the random throw-away comment from someone trying to fill air time.

Peace.

Vinnie

You are insecure, and scared that atheists may prick your little fragile bubble of faith and let the real world in. The world that says there is no god who exists outside of a believer's imagination.

If you faith was on firmer foundations, you wouldn't be so afraid of unbelievers.

Relax. there are no gods,and life is even better when you realize this.

Sanity is the better bet. You should try it.

Wow, I didnt realize people actually listened to Rick Reilly.

Quite honestly, if atheists were offended by this comment then they must have doubts regarding their faith (or lack thereof). I'm a baseball fan and atheist who watched the derby. When Reilly said what he did I chuckled. I'm not a militant atheist, I just simply don't believe in anything. For reasons I won't get into here, I've tried to believe and would like to believe, but I simply just don't. Regardless of rationale, I am an atheist though. And as an atheist I find it humorous when other atheists are offended at the mention of any type of god or when someone who believes in a god says something to affirm their faith. That's like me being offended when a child tells me what she got from the Easter Bunny. Atheists shouldn't be offended by that which they don't acknowledge. More spefically, when Reilly said, "It's a bad day to be an atheist" because a Christian hit 28 homeruns in 38 swings of the bat, my response is "why?" By that logic, when I get a raise at work it must be a bad day for a Christian co-worker. So a Christian had a good day...phenomenal day. Great. It's not a zero sum game. I'm glad Josh Hamilton found faith and turned his life around. Watching the events of Monday night unfold and already knowing his backstory made for a great day for this atheist.

Way to go, Vinny, trotting out the good ol' argument from design! That's thinking!

But - Hamilton didn't win.
He lost the contest.

Did God let him, and all true believers down?
Or did She have something better to do than watch the derby?

Just when you think that things can't get any dumber, they do.

Wow - I'm guessing that old "Vinnie" is a little lacking in quite a few departments, based on his obsession with using the word "little" and his use of semiliterate childish sarcasm to attack that which he does not understand. Has he actually heard any atheists "whine and cry"? Vinnie, I assume that you are oe of the many varieties of Christian. What would be your reaction to an announcer saying - following, let's say, the strikeout of a professed born again Bible believer - "Dang. Sucks to love Jesus today!" The outcry from the Christians would be deafening.

Maybe this was all that Reilly meant:
"I believe in the Church of Baseball. I've tried all the major religions, and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan. I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I heard that, I gave Jesus a chance. But it just didn't work out between us. The Lord laid too much guilt on me. I prefer metaphysics to theology. You see, there's no guilt in baseball, and it's never boring... I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball."
~the (abbreviated) opening monologue of "Bull Durham"

For what it's worth, I thought the nuttiest comment of the night belonged to Joe Morgan, who said that he thought Hamilton's ability to hit major-league pitching after a three-year layoff was the most significant aspect of Hamilton's story, not how he overcame addiction.

But - Hamilton didn't win.
He lost the contest.

Did God let him, and all true believers down?
Or did She have something better to do than watch the derby?

Just when you think that things can't get any dumber, they do.

Vinny,

Yeah, the universe is a big place dude, and there's lots of stuff going on, but have you ever considered equilibrium? It's a dynamic process that you might invoke to explain all those systems and how they exist in their current state - and how they'll change (evolve) into the state they will occupy at any point in the future.

You're obviously a Pastafarian, since the only way you can explain what you see is divine intervention - noodly appendages moving every cosmic checker.

You seem to be the one doing the whinning...

But - Hamilton didn't win.
He lost the contest.

Did God let him, and all true believers down?
Or did She have something better to do than watch the derby?

Just when you think that things can't get any dumber, they do.

I bet it’ll be a good day for Rick Reilly to be a Christian when he gets HIV/AIDS. He’ll need all the help he can get from his imaginary friends.

I never met a Reilly who didn't believe in a god.

It's in the genes.

To Vinny: Are you saying you're religious? Judging by the comments you made religion isn't working well for you. Your comments were despicable. I may not believe in God, but at least I know how to treat others. How does believing in a God justify treating others badly as it seems you do, reading your words? Why does believing in something that you can't see, feel, prove make you better? It doesn't.

What really niggles the religiously inclined, is those who don't agree with their supernatural interpretation of reality.
It is totally threatening to their cozy groupthink, which says there's an all powerful white haired superman living on cloud, who loves everyone, and will help you hit homers if you believe in him, and make you rich and happy.

It is amazing that grown ups are so desperate and deluded that they allow themselves to actually believe this supernatural drivel.

Hamilton is an evangelical, not a Catholic. So it was a bad day for Catholics.

This is one thing about sports - both pro and college - that I've never understood: praying for a win. Sports, in the grand scheme of things, is really meaningless. Ultimately, it's entertainment. Yes, it can be used to teach concepts like teamwork, leadership, good will and even (fadingly these days) morality. But I've never understood the appeal to The Almighty for favoritism. To paraphrase one writer whose name escapes me, "Why would the Creator care about you hitting the front end of a 1-and-1 [at the free throw line in a basketall game]?" Praying for God to give one a victory seems shallow and a bit egotistical.

If someone wants to bring God into sports, how about praying for any of the following:

1. That the officiating is fair and just.
2. That no players - on EITHER side - are injured.
3. That the conduct of both sides be sportsmanlike.
4. That the spectators keep their perspective, and are treated to a display of athletic prowess.
5. That all involved in the game keep their perspective, realizing that it is one afternoon-evening-night out of their lives, and that there is much work to be done in the world caring the needs of others.
6. That each and every player and staffer show respect for those that are different than they are, both during and after, the game.

Those are just examples. None of them smacks of the sort of "Put me first, Jesus" mentality that seems to afflict so many pro and college coaches.

Anybody that ascribes to Vince Lombardi's attitude that "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" are proving that winning isn't everything. Has anyone seen what's happening at the Tour De France lately? Guys being pulled from the sport for doping - aka cheating?

Sometimes, a "win" isn't a win.

Actually, the thing I found surprising about the Josh Hamilton story is that no one has raised the spectre of steroids or other performance enhancing drugs in any of the columns or stories that I've read. The man just hit 28 home runs in one round; better than Bonds, better than McGwire and I haven't heard any suggestion that he might be on the juice.

I have no proof that he's on performance enhancing drugs and I really, really hope he's not, since I want his story to be true (just like Lance Armstrong, even though I have my doubts with him), but I'm just surprised many of the writers have lost their cynicism regarding power numbers.

Gee, if a famous athlete is down on atheists and high on god can only mean one thing; there really must be a god up there somewhere.

I believe!! I believe in the great god of baseball.
I'm sure he watches all the games and loves all the players.

The downside is Iraq, Afghanistan, Darfur, Bangladesh and the rest of the world, which he continues to ignore.

At least now I know why. Baseball rules, right god?

Hamilton had a really good day. We all enjoyed and benefitted from it. He seems to have this life under control and is doing well. I wish him nothing but the best. But couldn't all wish the best for each other, even an atheist like me? Reilly?

I thank Hamilton for participating in his pure joy of swatting the ball like that and watching it fly. I think one or two are still going. Watch out, Space station!

To all who enjoyed a brief moment of Peace on Earth and Good Will to Mankind at the Home Run Derby - even Reilly.

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall. Hail Satan!

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall. Hail Satan!

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall. Hail Satan!

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall. Hail Satan!

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall. Hail Satan!

I've always found it interesting how athletes and other notable figures praise god when they do well but then never blame God for when they do poorly. God has got quite the set up going...always getting praise from believers, but never any blame. How do I sign up for that?

The little atheists whine again.

The little atheists are "hurt" cause somebody used the word atheist in a less than flattering way.

It have to say reading threads like this make me smile.

Atheism is just foolish, boring, laughable nonsense.

Sure folks, every single thing we see today; the entire gargantuan universe itself, the earth with countless system after system, perfectly balanced to sustain life as we have it right now; along with all that LIFE ITSELF all arrived through FAT CHANCE AND LOTS O' LUCKY THINGS... AND ALL FROM NOTHING AT ALL... BY NOBODY AT ALL.

THIS is why it's a rough road and sorry thing being an atheist.

Yet they whine and cry because somebody said the word atheist in a baseball game.

Folks, you just gotta love the little atheists!

Just wait. Josh Hamilton is a hooker and a crack rock away from falling back into addiction. If the Rangers were to make the playoffs, and I worked for the other team I would send the hottest hooker on earth with a sack of coke to Hamilton's room. I love how so many former addicts trade one addiction for another - drugs for Jesus. Reilly should be fired. If he had said that about Christians, Muslims, or Jews the outrage would be through the roof. I take no condolence from a society that believes in the idea of an invisible man in the sky that cares about sports but couldn't care less about people dying from bombs, and floods. What a sham. If I prayed to a god - I would pray to expedite Hamilton's fall.

How pathetic and egomaniacal it is to think that god choose amongst us. I hit more home runs because of god; my child was saved for some "purpose" (essentially meaning other children aren't saved for a purpose, aren’t worthy and/or you didn’t pray enough or aren’t devote enough); etc.; etc. To me, invoking god as the reason for your good things is disparaging toward god. It suggests that god favors you over all his other creations. Sorry ... I don't think so. Humility before god is gone in this country. Instead its god as consumption--I get more because I’m more deserving from god. Sad.

Let's just end this conversation with Neal Obstat's summation. That this matter was the subject of Orton's column resulted in a terrible waste of electrons.

"If you believe you're playing well because you're getting laid, or because you're not getting laid, or because you wear women's underwear, then you ARE!" – Crash Davis in "Bull Durham"

I'm glad Josh Hamilton thinks it's God, or Jesus, or whoever that's helping him recover from his drug addiction and those tattoos. Was it Jesus who told him to come thisclose to blowing his career by getting the drugs (or the tattoos) in the first place? Probably not--folks tend only to credit religion for their successes, at least in public. If Josh falls off the wagon at any point, can we blame Jesus for that?

Where Reilly's statement is idiotic is in his equation that if Josh credits Jesus for his recovery, and if he hits a lot of dingers in the derby, it must be a bad day for atheists. Actually, I had a really bad moment during the derby--the moment when Josh decided he had to prattle on about Jesus, which is a particularly putrid trend among athletes and pop stars--but I want to thank Jesus for inventing the TiVo, because I was able to fast-forward right through it.

As an atheist, I'm not for censoring any body's speech. For the past 2000 years saying "There is no God" was an offense that would get me killed. Freedom of speech, especially religious speech, is something I cherish.

That said, Reilly managed to make himself look like an @ss. It's not really my problem. ESPN will probably tell him to try to avoid saying things that will get them in hot water.

But let me propose one question: If Mr. Hamilton found himself in the Home Run Derby against an avowed atheist and said something to the effect that God would help him win - and his opponent hit 28 home runs to his 8 and a TV commentator said "It's a bad day to be a Christian" how many people would be up in arms? How many organizations would be calling for boycotts of ESPN and how quickly would ESPN fire Reilly and issue an apology?

I am an athiest. And I don't care what Reilly thinks. I find the remark amusing and not offensive.

I wonder though what the reaction would have been had the hitter been an avowed athiest and the comment had been that it was a bad day to be a Christian. Congress would probably order an investigation and hold hearings. Strange world we live in.

Z

'Baseball; as American as Josh Hamilton?'Share
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 3:30pm | Edit Note | Delete
When Josh Hamilton turned to the catcher and said, "This is awesome, ain't it?", I knew we were witnessing something very special. The quote came after launching the first of his record-shattering 28 home runs, in the first round of the 2008 Home Run Derby. The expression on his face was one of complete awe. It seemed to me that Josh Hamilton was more shocked about what was happening than, perhaps, anyone else. His eyes, smile and other mannerisms suggested that he was on the outside-looking-in on a recovery that had come full-circle. So it was that on a balmy, summer evening in July, 27-year old, Josh Hamilton's dreams came true in the cathedral, that is, Yankee Stadium.

Major League Baseball, the United States of America, and individuals all across the globe...needed this. In the midst of wars, presidential elections, soaring gas prices, steroid scandals, wildfires, everlasting memories of 911 and the daily disappointments that are: Britney Spears, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Brett Favre, A-Rod and Madonna; trust me America, when I say...we needed this.

Baseball, in many ways, is a microcosm of American society as a whole. Everyday, we play a game (life) on a beautiful field (Earth) amongst other players (common man) who may or may not be of All-Star calibur (erosion of morality). But just as the Bud Selig era of baseball is devoid of trust and character, so it seems the same is so with America. Gone are the days of our grandfathers and grandmothers who played in a stadium that was 'American as apple pie'. Welcome, instead, to the new arena of sex, image, greed and ultra self-absorption. What this great country needs is not another politician. We need individuals to unabashedly admit when they are wrong, take responsibility for their actions and live a humble and sincere life with purpose and hope in someone greater than themselves.

Josh Hamilton had a story to tell. It was a story of historic home runs and mammouth hope. The 'Superman' character in last night's fairy tale revealed to us and over 55,000 adoring fans that he, in fact, is not Superman. In complete sincerity and humility that most genuine, recovering addicts display, Josh deflected all the praise and adoration and pointed it, instead, to his lord and savior Jesus Christ.

With all due respect, Mssrs. John McCain and Barak Obama, what this country needs is not a 44th president. What we need and will always need...are more Josh Hamiltons.

by Matthew Paul McCurley
07/15/08

I caught that remark live, and it did jar me to some extent. I am an atheist who is largely tolerant of anyone's religious beliefs. However, while Reilly's remark may not have been malicious, it still came across in a way that said Christian beliefs are true, and atheists are mistaken. It also had an air of defensiveness about it. This does seem to reflect an attitude in society that turns freedom of religion into the idea that Christians can speak openly about their beliefs and criticize atheism, but atheists cannot expect to criticize Christianity without people taking offense to it.

I have a theory about why this is the case, and it has to do with how religious beliefs are presented in everyday life. Christianity can be openly spoken about because most people are Christians and we're all used to it being the dominant religion in the US. On the other hand, while the number of atheists may also be large, society has never really grown accustomed to people talking openly about atheism.

At a typical day at the office, you can hear people talk about a trip to church or the celebration of a religious holiday. There is nothing inherently wrong with this and it is the norm. However, you will never hear an atheist say any equivalent statement because atheists don't overtly do anything to show they're an atheist. An atheist doesn't go somewhere to *not* pray, or celebrate a specifically non-religious holiday, so ultimately there is never anything for an atheist to talk about that will give away their (lack of) beliefs.

With atheism never casually making its way into conversation in the form of these off-the-cuff remarks, it still has this underground nature to it. Because of this, I feel atheism is still somewhat taboo, and Christians feel justified in believing that they are right, and atheists are wrong. They also feel, as Reilly demonstrated, that they are justified in openly stating this belief.

Rick Reilly is biggest hack I've ever read. Thankfully he no longer pollutes Sports Illustrated with his trite, idiotic column. He's the type of writer who thinks that any sentence is automatically funny if he ends it in an exclamation mark! He's also never met a lame pop culture reference that he didn't like. (He's about as popular in my household as Jar-Jar Binks!)
I don't care one way or another about the comment, I just hope it gets him fired so I never have to hear from him again.

Knowing Rick Reilly's views on the war and the Bush administration, I assume he's more on the secular humanist end of the scale than the believing end. (I'm an anti-war evangelical conservative, so I'm not saying whether that's good or bad, it just is.)

So when I heard Reilly make his remark during the Home Run Derby, I was actually happy that he was willing to acknowledge Josh Hamilton's faith and the role it has played in his inspiring comeback, in albeit a humorous, indirect way. Other announcers that night and during the All-Star Game (and press reports of those same two events) often glossed over his faith.

I think atheists should just lighten up.

Many on this forum have no problem mocking "religionists" but when someone makes a comment about them they get all up in arms.

I don't think Reilly was being intolerant, just flippant...

Reilly made a stupid comment. The fact that a born-again Christian hit a lot of home runs is irrelevant to atheism. Basically, his comment was a non sequitur. And, by the way, was it a bad day for Christians when Hamilton failed to win the Home Run Derby? Did God fail or did he just not care about Home Runs or does he not exist in the first place? Aren't these questions, in relation to home run hitting, rather ridiculous? So Reilly made a stupid comment. What do you expect from a sports commentator, incisive philosophical commentary? I'm over it.

As an atheist, I was truly offended when I head the comment. I've been a fan of Rick's columns for years, but he left an awful taste in my mouth for the rest of the night. Was he insinuating that atheists like myself cannot stand to watch theists succeed? Here's a tiny portion of the long list of Christians who I wish I could be more like and wholeheartedly support: Barack Obama, Bono, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Bishop Desmond Tutu. I know atheists don't garner the respect of millions of Americans, but I would never have thought to include Mr. Reilly among the intolerant.

Reilly is a phony.
He complained that all the hitters in the home run derby were white. Would he have complained if they were all Hispanic or Black ????????