The Glories and Agonies of the Pulpit

Pagan if the government must remain neutral among religious choice and can't tell you when where and how to worship exactly what power is there for the majority to wield over the minority?

"Any sane reading of the First Amendment clearly indicates that the framers were intent on protecting religion from government not the other way around."

That also means protecting religion from the *corruptions* that political power involve, not to mention protecting the minority religions from those of any that might become a minority.

For instance, more Christian churches than states will solemnize same-sex unions, but some presume that 'religion' (really a few sects) have the right to dictate practice for all others.

TDAY:

They've done a job getting religion out of government in China with it's 4 to 1 population over ours. Shows it can be done altogether -- what the ministry needs to guard against.

I'm not talking about shutting down religion even though I could care less if it was terminated. I'm talking CONSERVATIVE, TAXES. I'm being taxed and the money given to the churches in the form of tax relief for them. Bush is so bold he's granted huge sums of tax money, taxes paid by me to ministries, "hired" them to do government work is his alibi. He "hired" them to get elected and paid them with tax dollars.

Religion can thumb it's nose at us for only so long just like king George before it hears what he heard, "no taxation without representation." Want me on the board at your church?

And of course voters will vote based upon what they think they know. Some of what they think they know they find out at church. I have zero problem with that.

But when religion, churches are given tax money by the governor that is buying votes. The one who promises to pay the most money gets the support of those paid. No one not religions or anyone is allowed to sell their votes which is exactly how Bush got elected. Big time ministries sold the votes of their dumb flocks.

The word is taxes. No tax breaks for religion and never tax money. That removes the incentive for big religion operators to sell the government down the river. The 30 pieces of silver thing comes to mind.

The wise pastor is on my side in this fight for the down side to making it a fight at all is what they have in China where missionary, the ability to recruit new members is unlawful. Faith in God is not unlawful in China and has never been. It's people with bull horns on street corners and recruiters with political ideas like Pat Robertson on television that's unlawful. It's far better to pay a little tax than be shut down.

All political issues are economic. Big time religion operators have cleaned up on the highly economic abortion issue. That would include his holiness, the primary ecumenical agitator.

I like to see the first amendment enforced rather than a sentence from a letter by Thomas Jefferson.

Any sane reading of the First Amendment clearly indicates that the framers were intent on protecting religion from government not the other way around.

An 'establishment of Religion' would be a church or synagogue or mosque. Congress is supposed to be unable to legislate how when or where you should worship, the shape and structure of the building or anything else regarding how you choose to worship.

The government is supposed to be neutral among religious choices and the neutral position is de facto Atheism any more than it is de facto Christianity.

>>Enforcing the first amendment would be a good first step towards getting religion out of the picture altogether.

Religion will never be out of the picture. The spirit of man when coupled with God's spirit as a helper will see to that. It (the belief system, if you will) has been around since the beginning until now...and not because large groups of people have been deceived thru the centuries, but because God is real. Its equally a logical argument that He created us just as you or I, If we put our mind to it, could create things similarly..only on a much smaller scale. We cannot explain everything about the wonderous system that we call the human body. There is a very good reason for this. Just as a complex robot, for instance, just cant 'happen'..the same is true for the complex mechanism that you, me and our neighbors are. Man has truly misguided himself and others after him in understanding God, understanding our purpose here on earth, understanding His plan for mankind. For right now...this is the way it is, due to our own decisions.

Can we hold you to that, next time the Chuch decides to play kingmaker for the likes of Bush?

Until the Great Depression if not a little later politics was always common place in churches. Now it seems it is only permitted inside African-American churches as nearly all others are concerned about their tax status.

Very interesting, though, those-who-wanted Church power...

How suddenly what you wanted became uncomfortable.

I'm not a 'preacher' ... quite.

But I'm clergy who knows what not to touch in the name of the Gods.

"f Jeremiah Wright were like most pastors in America’s 300,000 or so congregations—baptizing, marrying, visiting the sick and burying—his sermons wouldn’t be an issue. But like the name he bears. he speaks often in the thundering tones of the prophet."

If you want prophecy, guess where you won't get it.

But if it was prophecy you wanted, you could have pricked up an ear in the Seventies.

This is about something else.

And that's on you.

Religion in politics is fairly standard any more. As usual, the Democrats bear the brunt of the attack. And, as usual it's the media making a big deal out of something that's hardly a deal at all,, unless Jeremiah Wright is running for president. I don't recall seeing his name on the ballot.

What strikes me about Pastor Tully's essay is how it makes segregation a given. To wit, there's a white church and a black church. Silly me, I thought religion was at the point of attack, the van guard of integration. That would be the consensus of MLK day essays. Looks like I can't trust panelists to be consistent.

I'm left to expect the next big integration step is a white president AND a black president but then most likely it will be a white government and a black government. That's how it is with that God government business, religion, a white church and a black church. The law says there shall be but one government and no test of either race or religion for those seeking to hold government office. Maybe the media relies a bit much on the opinions of preachers?

Enforcing the first amendment would be a good first step towards getting religion out of the picture altogether. All those uncollected taxes on church real estate is being used to take over the government and reestablish segregation so it would seem.

No matter how may time you block our New York friend J*sv*z, he just keeps showing up like Rev. Wright on Faux News.

Religion in politics is fairly standard any more. As usual, the Democrats bear the brunt of the attack. And, as usual it's the media making a big deal out of something that's hardly a deal at all,, unless Jeremiah Wright is running for president. I don't recall seeing his name on the ballot.

What strikes me about Pastor Tully's essay is how it makes segregation a given. To wit, there's a white church and a black church. Silly me, I thought religion was at the point of attack, the van guard of integration. That would be the consensus of MLK day essays. Looks like I can't trust panelists to be consistent.

I'm left to expect the next big integration step is a white president AND a black president but then most likely it will be a white government and a black government. That's how it is with that God government business, religion, a white church and a black church. The law says there shall be but one government and no test of either race or religion for those seeking to hold government office. Maybe the media relies a bit much on the opinions of preachers?

Enforcing the first amendment would be a good first step towards getting religion out of the picture altogether. All those uncollected taxes on church real estate is being used to take over the government and reestablish segregation so it would seem.